Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Right. It is helpful. So

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: this is Senate Transportation and we are a little late today and we apologize. It is Tuesday, March 24 and we are here with the Agency of Transportation Structures Program and the move is going on.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Thank you, Cher. For the record, Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager. When I was here before, I talked about this interstate and state program, so now I'm just gonna go through the town highway program budget. But before I did that, Mr. Chair, I just wanted to address a question that you had about how inflation is impacting what we can deliver out in the street. I just have to regress for one brief program that sort of indicates where we are. So if you look at the green bars here, that is the amount of square foot of debt that we've opened and the yellow line is the funding. And so you can start to see now in the interstate program, it looks a little weird because we were working on some major projects the 2017, 2018 area, but you can see the gap there that indicates that we are not doing as well as we did with the funding as far as how much square footage of deck we can open. But where it really illustrates it is in the state highway program, you sort of see the same same gap. Yep.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Explain to me what's the difference between the green bar and the

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: So the green bar is a square foot of deck area that we opened, and the yellow line is the amount of funding we had to do that.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So the amount of dollars it's costing is?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: And the deck area is actually going down, right? And the deck area is going down. And obviously, it's mostly inflation driven. Also, there are material differences that we're using in bridges now so that they last longer. So that has a little bit of cost, but most of this is directed at inflation. In the Town Highway program, it's the same thing, and you can see it pretty drastically in the Town Highway program.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I totally appreciate the graph and there's gotta be a simpler way to explain this to people. If they ask and I get on the floor and I hand that out, I'll spend the next half hour trying to explain what that is, but I I get your point. Go ahead.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Do and I understand why it wouldn't, but maybe it does anyway a number of bridges. Does it kinda follow along? Because that might be the USP-

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Essentially, yeah, we could do it with the number of bridges completed.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: You can

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: say like we're spending, whatever,

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: that is 35,000,000 more money, more dollars than we did per year, but we're only doing-

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Sure, but bridges are very different, so some cost a lot, some don't cost.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right, that's why it's a brand new curve. Right, yeah. But maybe it's just easier for people to get the general gist if it's number of bridges. How do we get way more production out of less money back before 2016? 2016.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: It's a good question. We have to go back and look at individual projects, but this is just real data that we had in real time. So I thought I would share it with you. We can look at what was going on in that time frame. I mean, obviously, back that part ago

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And do we have that chart? Because it's You you don't yet. Didn't have it?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: No. I will send it to her following this meeting.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Go ahead. And could it be opening that has many different iterations, so it's not a bridge replacement, fits the account? So I can see in a year if you're just fixing a bridge versus replacing a bridge, you're going to have much more debt area open for dollars. Right.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: So if we're replacing a deck, this doesn't include bridge maintenance work, but if we're doing a major rehabilitation or reconstruction, that's where I would plan. And yes, we may have had a lot of deck repairs in the 2013 to 2016 timeframe, but I would have to go back and look. But all these graphs show that we're sort of trending in the wrong direction for how much we can deliver with the money.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: The cost of per foot of the dex is going up dramatically. There's gotta be some way to quantify each of these.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: There is, and we actually provide if we just separate out all of the miscellaneous work that we do around traffic control and that stuff, we have to report the federal highway on the NHS and non NHS bridges, the square foot cost, and we can send that to you over time if that's It's significantly, it has significantly increased as you

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: report. Go ahead.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: So just a couple of things. So I totally understand that prices have increased. I'd like to see what other neighboring states are getting because I know our staff has been reduced I recently saw a study that said when you have fewer staff then your general costs go higher because people don't have the time to analyze things was that study's conclusion. But then just one other thing, with the time periods that are before 2020, I think that area seems pretty, that seems likely to me to have the up and down, especially with bridges, because you're not going to fix a bridge in a year necessarily. I mean, they're multi years, So when you have that many years, you can kind of see how things balance out. So the stuff previous looks reasonable to me, but I would like to see what other states and how they're Absolutely. What's happening there?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Federal Highway requires that all states do this

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: so we can get that information. Great. Thank you. So this is town highway. The one before it was This is state highway. This that's state highway. Okay.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: And this is interstate. And this this is an anomaly because we had a couple of large design build projects that took many years to construct, and we don't actually count it as opening it until the year it opens. Yep. But

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: so interstate, state. State, and then town highway.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: And with that, I will just go through the town highway budget. Any

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: way that you can rework those, know, I get the gap that's being created. Articulating it out to the world.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Understood. We can work on our delivery and how we share that with you. So 37 projects funded, 16 for construction at 30,300,000.0. It is down 7,500,000.0 from FY '26. The trend that I just highlight that when IJA came out, it had a provision in there for $45,000,000 a year to bridges, and we could use that money for off system bridges at a 100% federal. And that's why you see that spike there. We delivered, honestly, most of the town for highway projects that were ready to go, if not all, that could meet that funding eligibility. So that's why you see the spike there. Funding splits, about 24 and a half million federal, 1.5 in local town shares, and 2,600,000.0 in tip funds. Some of the highlights are we are working hard on the Burlington Windhamski Bridge at 150 over the Windhamski to spend 5,600,000.0. That's design and right of way costs. Replacement of Bridge 60 on Vermont Route 12 in Northfield to spend 4 and a half million in f y twenty seven. Rehabilitation of the truss bridge in Pultely on Route 31 to spend 4 and a half million in f y twenty seven. Bridge 6 on Town Highway 3 in Walcott, 3,100,000.0. Bridge 62 on Town Highway 18 in Chester, Elizabeth Williams is gonna spend 2,600,000.0. And the replacement of Bridge 6 on Vermont 9 in Bennington to spend 1,000,000 in FY twenty seven.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Brian, Windham Bridge, is that the final design been done yet?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Well, it's going design built, so the final design will actually be done by a consultant contractor partnership. So we are developing an RFP to go out on the street with all the technical and legal requirements to solicit design build firms to bid on the project.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: And then RFP, do you guys have some?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: We have a base technical concept. We have a base technical concept and it has certain requirements. One of them is a 15 foot shared use path on one side of the bridge, a 12 foot shared use. The lane configuration, the bridge width isn't up for negotiation. Okay. But there are things that the design build team can can look at and think about how they wanna phase construction, do the work, maintain traffic. And so they'll they'll be putting together a proposal for DTRANS in the cities to evaluate.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: And when do we think it'll be built?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: The heavy part of construction is likely gonna be in FY '28 and '29, depending on how fast the design build team can deliver packages for us to start construction work.

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: Okay.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So so 2829, so so you mean

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: FY '20 so I would say construction seasons '29 and '30 are going to be the biggest impacts. And

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: remind me, what's the estimates for cost?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Right now we're estimating $70,000,007.00?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: $7.00, yep. So are all those in this STIP?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Yes. Right?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Hello, sir.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: But yeah, there it is.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Oh, because it's Chittenden Okay, the ones that are not Chittenden County are in the stiff.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Correct. Me add, and you may not know this, how many years has Wilk had been sitting there?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: The temporary bridge?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: The private as a whole because the temporary bridge came in when they couldn't get to the town clerk's office and they they brought that in, but they it was in line.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: How long has it been in the book?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Yeah. I'd have to look at into that. I'm not

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: The book doesn't tell us.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. It's under the

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right. That was.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I was young. We'll have to

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: add that to another 10 g reports. What projects have been on the books for over ten years?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Here's our performance measures and where we think we're going to be with current funding. You can see our goal for off system bridges or town highway bridges is 12%, and we're very comfortable that we're gonna stay below those those targets.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: And how did you do you always have to go 12%? Is that Yeah.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: So 8% on the interstate, 10% on state highway, and 12% on town highway.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Is there a reason?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Those are just I mean, the interstate is set by federal highway standards, then I think those performance goals were internal to be trained.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: It has always been the same, like we haven't changed in a lot of years.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: We have not changed them.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: And did you see a reason why you would want to just go with the federal standard? Like we're okay with 4% more poorer on the town than we are on the interstate? I mean, I can kind see the interstate importance, but.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Yeah, I think the answer to that, and I don't know, I think people looked at sort of where we were at the time, those were developed and said, you know.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Maybe we're above 12 on this. Yeah.

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: I could share. Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineering. And I do think it reflects kind of regional importance to some degree. A dirt road town highway has less tentacles on socioeconomic issues than a class one town highway or interstate state.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: It's the same kind of ratio, like the longer you, when you replace a bridge or have to replace, fix a bridge that's poor, it's going to cost more than if you fixed it when it was fair or you know what I mean?

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: Nothing with

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: maybe. We talked about pavement.

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: Yeah. Mean, once you leave the rehabilitation realm, you may as well suck every ounce of life you can out of it if you're gonna replace it. So there isn't, you know, there's less beam and pipes on the rigids than there are for pavements. So it's very much rehabilitation and replacement. And once you're in that replacement realm, Might

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: as well. Do you ever replace bridges that aren't forward?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Rarely. I mean, the flooding events are an example of where we have addressed resiliency issues and not necessarily structural issues.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So just to get this record, goal is on the interstate 6%. 8%. If

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: I got that wrong, I apologize. If it's six on the slide, that's what it is.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: It's six on the slide.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Okay. Then it's 6%.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: My my apologies. So it's six for interstate. It's 10, for state highways, and it's 12 for tenants. Correct. And why you know, it kinda gets to your question. Why are they all different?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Well, think Jeremy just tried to address that with his response.

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: I think it's a general sort of amplification value for the network. Right? If we haven't closed the interstate, the traffic counts and I'll just say that the movement of freight and economic drivers is much higher than their road on the town highway.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: And if I can just share this quickly because this gives a snapshot of where we actually are on the on the system right now, and you can see Can

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: you make that bigger? I'm not sure how

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: to do that.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: It's bigger than a quarter plus. I didn't find anything more. Sorry. I

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Oh, you know?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: It's old person's eyes. It's on the right hand.

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: Oh, well, I'm very

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Some of

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: us just have that as we're young. He's the same.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: That's what I was thinking.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: I didn't hear was hearing you.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Whatever was Is I it your life? I think we're maybe it. Don't even have the toolbar.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Can see the toolbar on the right side.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Oh yeah, yeah, go on the right. Right side.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Maybe it's his one.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Just sorry. I think Okay. No. I got it. I got it. I see now. Possibility. I see now. There you go. There we go. We got it. Good job.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: One more. There. That's good. Okay. I I I can oh. Oh.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: That's okay. Just now screw it. Oh. Oh. I'm gonna do it again.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: How's that? One more. One more. You got it. How's that? Yeah. So but just to highlight that we are, you know, about by count, 3% on the interstate port and 5% by deck area. On the state system, we're about the same 3% by bridge number, but four and a half percent by deck area. And then on the town highway system, we're about four and a half percent by count, but only 33.75% poor by deck area currently. And this is updated as of March. So

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And how do you if I'm backing up and saying out to 3035, what's the parameters behind how you what's the benchmarks that get me to the place to say that your analogy is correct? Particularly when the rest of the agency I have to say when you came in, you know, paving, and I'm talking about paving on the state highways, and they're down so low. How do I compare?

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: In the sense of condition compared to the pavement condition or how what is the methodology?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: What is the methodology that gets me to this?

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: So we've got standards or essentially predictions that based on the bridge type and the component type, we think they'll stay at certain level for x number of years and then they'll go down to the next level, and then they'll go down to the next level. And so we just apply those. Let's just take a bridge. If the superstructure is a six now, we may think it's going to last five years at the six, and then I'll go down for five.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: That's that's on the construction side. What on the money side for the money that I have to put in. And what and what inflation rates are looking at this versus what we've seen?

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: So when we do the modeling, everything's sort of predicted at 20 '25 or $20.26 dollars So we ignore both inflation and any revenue increases or decreases. So instead of taking a guess at two things we don't know, we just equalize it and say, at current funding and current spending ability, this is what's going to happen.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: And for paving, there's a very, very poor road condition, but not for bridges. So they're very poor for There's

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: not very poor. So so we

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: What's the purple?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Yeah. In an old terminology now. Federal Highway has just said stick with good, fair,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: and poor. That's bridges too? Yes.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. But for for roads, you have a very

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: Vermont does for federal highway. So back I forget decades ago, Vermont came up with four classifications, whereas we still report Federal Highway with the three classifications.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: But there used to be the classification that the bridge is totally safe and structurally sound, but it's

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Functionally different. Functionally especially deficient.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And and do we still track that?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: What does that mean? Was that, like, very poor?

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: No. So functionally deficient

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: was It's functionally up functionally obsolete. Yeah. Terminal. How do you use

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: a You come up on a a place where it shouldn't be one lane, but it's still it's one lane. It may be purse perfectly sound, but it for today's traffic, it shouldn't be one lane anymore. Okay.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: So the kind where you'd send it to the car over the bridge if it makes it a bit

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: messy. Yeah. It's okay.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Good for another year. So when they get closed, they're still rated as poor? Bed Yes. Is closed. So the Pots Stand Bridge that we hear a lot about in here, that's

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: included in the board of condition here.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So if you want can to put PT

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: to your front page today if you want to hear about the farm stand that had to close due to this bridge

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: not being. Well, tell him not to worry.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: All the bridges will be closed.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: If he gets me the numbers for Vulcan, I'll bet you it's been-

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: 2019 is when we programmed it.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: When you programmed it. For our Apple project. It's had a Bailey Bridge on it since '19?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Probably

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: yeah. I I don't know.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: It said the Bailey Bridge on top of it.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: So

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: It turned it from a two lane to the Bailey Bridge on top, but it's only it's been since '19. That's not too long. We have no bridge. Can can we Well, then this was no bridge, but they put the Bailey on top.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: And also, showed me Can

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: we bring photos of our local bridges and and a meeting?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Where'd you get that?

[Jeremy Reed, Chief Engineer (VTrans)]: What kind of Chestnut. Just went away.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: It's a crumbling Where did I get it? It's in Bellows Falls.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Oh, did you take this picture? Yeah.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: There used to have an ugly bridge.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: I know. Exactly. We do your great tour of going on your bridge.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. We like that.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: It used to be a beautiful bridge.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Prince two mentors and just roll fun. Yeah.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: She's pumping. Alright.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: For years. We'll give you a collage. Thank you. Yes. Give me something to ask for. A ponder.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: 10 g reports. These are projects that have been added since f y twenty six. We decided that we need to install a temporary bridge and stop bridge. So that was programmed as a separate project from the main project we're working on. And then Windham District is a support project for the the bridge project with some traffic improvements in the area.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: As there's a temporary bridge going in there, I said, and you're not shutting down that bridge.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Well, I don't know what the contractor will do, but we are requiring maintaining two lanes of traffic going north and no traffic going south into Burlington. And that's not to all type into Burlington. So that's correct. They have to go in the interstate. Wow. Or or or go to Limekiln Bridge or something.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Or they could propose like a gondola.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: So we we expect some, you know, traffic impacts from that project, obviously. But the our our models show that the movement works out much better by having two lanes in that direction. Everyone's making right turns to get on the interstate.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And so that's Everybody's trying to get out of Burlington.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: It's a It's certain time of day. Yeah.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Right. Just checking. You know?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: That's good that you're being

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: trying to get into projects.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Creative, though. I I I applaud that.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Yeah. Yeah. So and then projects that have increased by more than 8,000,000 or by more than 75% compared to the estimate. There are none.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I did notice that last one that, you know, Marshfield, our playing field and, you know

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Really, like, five, six bridges.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Yeah. I didn't highlight that. The whole thing is huge. Those are actually managed by Joel's group. They're just in the town highway.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Projects. Yep. They would have rather not lost their bridge to its floods. Right.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And they're saying it's you know, you're you're sucking up lots of resources.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Wow. They're flooding our towns.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: And then projects that have increased by more than 10,000,000 or by more than a 100% compared to the preliminary plan phase estimate.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Don't know. Harper Harper's been

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: on here before. Obviously, we were in early design phases before inflation, and then it's a $24,000,000 project. So the price really increased on that. It was a 10,600,000 from

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: But I'm confused now. This is just you're reporting out. It went over budget rather than it is continuing to be a project. There still work to be done on it? It's

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: It's not completely closed in our construction section yet because they have a final process, but essentially the work is.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Well, would say if you have not closed out the project yet, there is a mismatch with the lighting on the bridge and our local ordinances around lighting, the lights are too bright. And the sconces

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: are So still too bright because we already changed them once.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: I'm still hearing it's too bright. I don't know if that's it's less loud about how bright it is, but, yes, it is in the windows of, a former select board member on one side and then on the other side, another former select board member.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: So I'll have the project here. You kind of looked into it, but I know we did change the legs out once already. Yes. You

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: made them more orange almost. It's nice. But I'm just saying if you haven't reconnected with the property owners on either side, particularly Matt, do you see, and you haven't closed out the project, that's a consideration. Beautiful bridge, though. I celebrated New Year's Eve on it.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Aw. Was really

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And then Yeah.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Stop. By line. I'll confirm. These these have actually, Harper is on here, so it is closed. Oh, okay. I'm sorry. But Brownell Brown Hinsdale, obviously, that bridge has been closed out and then Town Highway Bridge in Grafton is completed and then Hartford.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay. That makes more sense.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: So I guess so that's the Brown And Rattensdale Bridge. So, the rehabilitation of the historic bridges, is kind of part of that project, but kind of is that why New

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: Hampshire programmed it as a separate project. So that's how we're treating it, but they are actively working on it.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: And we're supporting there's some funding from Vermont.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: It's in general, it's 7%,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I believe, my recollection, but I have to go back.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: So is it still in your list of items that you're going to do something with it?

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: It has funding for design in in the book. Okay. Okay. For FY16.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Okay, so it's not construction. I see. So that's not okay construction. Thank you.

[Jim Lefroy, Structures Program Manager (VTrans)]: And that's really what I had to present on the Town Highway Bridge budget so I can open it up to any questions. I'm sorry.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Let me ask you. Grafton, did did that bridge get completed? Yes. Okay. Yep.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Thank you. Great. Thank you. You. It's a boy.