Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: You're live.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: We're back live, Senate Transportation, and we are here with the structures program. And thank you very much. We're running a few minutes. Understood.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: No. So I'm Jim Lacroix. I'm the structures program manager. Thanks for having me here today to talk about the FY twenty seven budget. Quickly, have, as you all know, we have three programs for the structures program, Interstate Bridge, State Highway Bridge, and Town Highway Bridge. And then if we had some time, did want to talk about what we're doing in bridge maintenance because it's a very critical aspect of keeping our assets in good condition and we're doing great things there. Total budget is $166,500,000 with 160 projects currently funded and 92 of those funded for construction ER replacement projects for bridges due to the 2324 flooding. That's a spending increase of 5,300,000.0 from FY '26. The first program that I'm going to discuss is the Interstate Bridge Program, that's TAF five B and the white book. It's 51,300,000.0 proposed for FY '27, 5,700,000.0 increase from FY '26. There are 33 projects funded in the program, 21 of them funded for construction and nine of those are at Woodbridge maintenance projects. It's just the trend of the funding in the Interstate Bridge Program over the last fifteen, sixteen years. I'll see that. The Interstate Bridge Program is funded through 90% federal and 10% state. And that is all TID money for the state funds.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: That's all TID money. That's all TID money.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: So just to understand TIP better so the so that's revenue that is from the TIP but it's not necessarily part of the bond right?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Okay, Payoff. Right?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: It's just in that category. Yes.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Of revenue. It was collected in the whole state tax.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Some Okay. Highlights from the program. You've all seen that we've been rehabbing the interstate bridges in Royalton for some time now. That's gonna continue. We are proposing to, replace the bridges at Exit 1 in Brattleboro, but that is contingent on us getting a grant that we expected a NOFO back in August. Still haven't seen it. The expectation is that it's coming soon, so we're just waiting for that, but we're ready to apply for that grant. We think we have a decent shot of of getting it. So How's

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: the Royal Open project taking a month somewhere in June to use

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: that that district? Yeah. Let me see.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: The the Royal and the interstate project?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: They can like,

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: it seems like it's I mean, it's a major rehab of a very large bridge, and so we gave the contractor two years for the rehabilitation on each individual bridge. So it's a four year project.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Each side?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yeah. Two years. Maybe it's

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: what year are we in now?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: We're gonna be in year three.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: So this was already an existing project? Correct.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I just thought maybe it was the representation of the history.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: It's not my fault on the screen. No. This is not the Fox Dam Bridge. Is that Bridge 30.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Right. This is on the existing.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Where the where the crane tipped over.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yes. Yeah. The first

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: We're laying on its side for Yeah.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: But that's

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: bridge you're

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: that's the other side is when they yeah. That

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: was on the northbound bridge. Yeah, the very first year they were there. Then we have nine bridge maintenance projects that's going to spend $5,000,000 We're replacing some deep culverts in Fairley that's going to spend $5,000,000 in FY twenty seven. We've got rehabilitation on two culverts in Linden, going to spend $3,600,000

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Can I ask about the, oh, the barrel? So this isn't the one that has the beautiful mural underneath it. This is a separate project.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Correct. Those that project that they're already completed.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay. So they are gonna do the second mural then soon? Or maybe I just haven't seen it yet.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: I have a meeting about it in a week or so. Think they're proposing to, and I don't think we have any arguments with what they wanna do.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: So I

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: think it will happen. Cool. Yeah. We're gonna replace the decks on Bridge 34 North And South in Brookfield, spend $3500000.0.27. Springfield I 91 is one of the biggest projects that we've ever tackled. It's got, eight bridges associated with it. It is still in design. We're spending 2,000,000 in design in f y twenty seven, and the plan is to move that to construction in f y twenty eight. It is a Right now, our estimate is about $80,000,000 for those eight structures.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Just to note, I know that you are going to do something with the rail trail and you've had a couple of either public hearings or, you know, there's been some comments made, but you're still, if I'm understanding the process, I can confirm to constituents that they will still have full access to the trail during construction. Although we moved, like you're not going to have like a spot where you're suddenly not able to go and you have to get off the trail.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Well, you will have the trail is going to be relocated.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: But you'll still always be able to do it. There'll never be a point of time where you're stopped from continuing.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Correct. Yes. The Williamstown, we're replacing some decks in Williamstown, spending 1,800,000.0 in FY twenty seven. We're we've got a Culver rehab in Rockingham. That's going to be done in FY27, spend $1,100,000 and a deep culvert in Montpelier right out here that's going to begin rehabbed. That's going to spend $1,000,000 This is just showing you where we are for our condition rating and where we are projected to be with current funding levels as allocated. So everything previous to FY '25, I guess '25 is current and accurate. We're at 7%. Beyond that, we're predicting based on what we're spending currently, where we will be over that period of time. And so we're still meeting the 8% threshold with current funding levels. Although we get relatively close to what it looks like in 'thirty one and 'thirty two, and it just sort of depends, you know, when we're constructing these projects, until they get officially inspected, they don't get transferred into good condition. We have to wait for that. And Royalton is one, that's a big one that once that gets inspected, it will reduce these numbers a little bit. And that's why you see a pretty good drop here from, well, I guess not, but in 'twenty eight, when that project is going to be complete and we have the inspection, we're anticipating that. A bridge like that will drop at 1% right there because it's about deck area and it's a very large area. On 10 gs reports, these are projects that have been added to the program after the 2020 slides.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Have so the town of Rockingham had major concerns about a bridge that is, being delayed for four years, and we don't even know they don't even know officially yet that it is has is being delayed for four years. And I'm wondering if these took its These are

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: these are all the this yeah. We're still on the interstate program. I'm gonna have the town highway program.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: The next one he he's going to do is the state highway bridge, and this is it. So is your project a a town It's

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: town highway.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Town. Okay. Yeah.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Well, then he's got a state. In I will wait. Alright.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. Okay. I do have a question about this list of

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Sure.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: So Norwich

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yes.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Gosh. That has been a nightmare. That whole thing has been a nightmare getting onto the ramp there because we set up on that bridge to get onto the exit. There was you basically it became one lane trail.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: That's in Hartford. Right?

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: No. It's you know, it's Norwich. I mean, maybe it's technically I I'm pretty sure it's in Norwich, but it's that it's that inner

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: You're talking about the it's still one lane now. The rail got hit, and we do have a emergent need project to replace that rail

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Oh, okay.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: This spring.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Oh. Oh.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: But that's not on here because, again, it was after the budget, the rail got hit. And so but we do have an emergent need lot in the line item in the budget that would take care of something like that. So we we had to close the lane of traffic there for safety reasons.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, no, no, I don't disagree with the I understand that part. But that Thank you. Didn't expect that answer. But that's a confirmed it will be resolved. Okay. I can tell my commuters, yay.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yeah. So,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: could you back up a piece? This is all over to this. This is just the interstate. This is just the interstate. Correct. Thank you because that I can't really see it from here. Yeah.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Okay.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: You know, will open my book. So k.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Any other questions on this slide?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And you do have that chart for each program. Okay,

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: are projects that have increased by more than 8,000,000

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: or more than and I actually

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: have something to pull

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: off my screen. They've increased by in what period of time?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: I gotta go back here. Where am I going? My screen is It's forward. Yeah. There we go. Okay. Or more than I can't read it. 75%. 75% compared to the '26 estimate. So so the VM projects are projects that you're gonna see come up on this report quite often because they're maintenance projects. They're relatively small in scale, except when you get into maintaining a bridge, we seem to oftentimes find more that needs to get fixed than what was originally predicted, and the project just ends up costing a little bit more. And because it's such a small amount, it doesn't take much to meet that So

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: are these all because we tore the bridge apart and you found something more than you or are these because we put bids out and the bids came

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: in too high? These two in particular were because there was additional work. So Burnett and Springfield? The Saint John Barry and Burnett. I'll talk about Springfield a little bit because that's the project that I was referring to before that our current estimate is the $80,000,000, and that's increased, by more than 8,000,000 because we've moved forward in design. And again, it's an $80,000,000 project and obviously we've had inflation pressures.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So That was getting to what my question was. What are we seeing for inflation in these projects? Because we know that between 2021 and 2024 or so, the inflation was crazy. And we have heard with tariffs and everything else that's out there that it's affecting the crisis deal. Are we experiencing that?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Absolutely, we are experiencing all of what you said, the pressures of that. We've some analysis on this and I'm happy to share what we've looked at, but between 2022 and 2025, we were looking at 60%

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: increase for so building the same project in '22 versus '25, it's gonna was gonna cost you 60% more in '25 to build the same project. You know, as this committee tries to tell a story of what's going on in transportation, that becomes important to be able to highlight to people the pressures that we're under. Because in many respects when someone else in the room talks about our where the lines cross our revenues to meet expenditures, it would be nice to be able to compare what your actual inflationary costs were versus what their estimates are.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: That is something I can

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I can get you information on? You know, Jeremy gives Us estimates and let's see if he's right. Okay.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Projects that were increased by more than 10,000,000, we don't have any, there's no offices. And then projects that were funded for construction in FY twenty six that are no longer funded. The US 2 Bridge over Richmond is fully complete and is no longer funded.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: So does it need to be funded?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Correct. Okay. Yeah, it's completed. Just some before and after pictures of some work that we've done on the interstate, and I will move on to state highway bridge program and start you off by updating you on Queechee Gorge. I mean, what a bridge.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: And it

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: will be for a while longer in construction, but not that long. So I think you can see that we anticipate having both lanes of traffic in place by August with, and you can see the current I

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: don't know what the name of the river is. Is it the Otakuichi? Think it's Otakuichi under it.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: It is. Yeah. We just sell it called Otakwechee Gorge. Yeah.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Otakwechee, I think. Yeah. And

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: just you can see the pedestrian rail that we've installed there is a safety component for that bridge, it really came out nice.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. So I just I just wanna highlight, very appreciative of all the work you're doing. Also really appreciative of of the specific people working there. I don't know who you have in particular, but I've seen a lot of just really well managed like, I go by that minimum five times a week. And while the lights and the delays strictly irk people, I think you designed it in a really good way to make sure that there's as little traffic back up when there's actual construction happening. And it's clear that when people are working, they are working. There's always movement when you have the construction open for it. I had a constituent question that is tangentially related to this, but every year with the influx of tourists who come right around August, there was concern that the construction site had been taking up room that typically, like, charter buses have been using or families. Do you have any idea if you could relocate some of your construction equipment and site prep work and seats that you're doing to allow for more parking and access to the gorge during the summer months. Is that an option for you, or have you had conversations about that? Because it means people are parking very large buses in uncharacteristically, in places they normally wouldn't be parking.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: So contractually, contractor will have to be there. Mean, can certainly have the conversation. I think, like this is indicating, it's going to be down to cleanup work during fall foliage, and I think most of the big equipment should be out of there. So it should be less restrictive than it had been in previous years.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: And do you allow, I've also had questions about why we couldn't have installed, like, with all of the construction going on, why couldn't we have installed a public restroom during all of this at that site? I know you have the porta potties for people who work, and I've heard that people have been using them So from the if there is any way to I don't know. That's a BGS question, I think. But it would be nice to talk about facilities in that location once this bridge project is complete because I think we're seeing such a high level of traffic even now with the construction that once the bridge is complete, we're gonna see even more visitors and access to facilities would be a nice thing to consider.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: I think

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: it's a private property, though. Is that that are you talking in on the other side of that bridge going east?

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: If you're going towards Yeah. If you're going towards Woodstock.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: Yeah.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: There's parking on either side, and that's where they've set up a lot of their equipment and their support bodies. If you're going back towards Hartford, there's a visitor center, which I believe the state and the Chamber of Commerce maintained, and that's has one or two facilities, which are typically extremely crowded. So people have been going to the Queechee Mall, the the Cabot Correct. And they don't like that, obviously. So it'd be nice to get some kind of facility up, and people have just been kind of using the port body that we left out the construction site. So it's clearly a need. I I just wanna know.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: I'm so I'm sorry. How wide is that sidewalk? Because it looks like a a double use. Yeah.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: So the sidewalks were actually widened by three feet on both sides, which for for a bridge that's been there as long as this one I mean, it was a pretty amazing engineering feat that they got a design that that could, you know, work with the supporting elements of the the bridge itself. So, yeah, we're very happy about getting the additional width for pedestrians.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: How so are they eight feet?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: No. They're six.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Six feet.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yeah. That's it. But they were very narrow before.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Is it six feet usable space?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: I'd have to go look at the details. That might be the total

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: It's ADA compliant.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: It is ADA compliant.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Yeah. It's just good to have as much education.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: We ain't got as much width out of that structure as we could have.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: So That's great.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: It's quite beautiful, the design to to because we had had those issues with people that that wanted to take themselves.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yeah. And it was a critical part of the design. And so And and

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I know we've gone around the horn, up and down with ways to make it safer, and but it's quite beautiful what they they designed.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: So there won't be netting underneath it. That's my understanding. You're not doing the netting. No. Yeah.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: So again, I want to highlight that bridge. It is an iconic structure and great that we're finishing that project. But State Highway Bridge 90 projects are funded 55 for for construction. That includes 29 projects from the flood events in twenty three and twenty four and eight bridge maintenance projects. So and I well, from a

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: high level to tell you, looking at it now. So when does the culvert become a bridge project?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: So the structures program is responsible for existing culverts that are six feet in diameter or opening six Six feet or greater. Six feet. Now Federal Highway doesn't define it as a bridge until 20 feet in length.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: But in this book, it would be six feet.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: In this book, if it's in the bridge program, it's six feet and greater.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: If it's a culvert, it'd be a bridge. If it's 20 feet, even if it's just a culvert, it's still a bridge.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Even if it's bridge per Federal Highway, even if it's a buried structure technically.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: Sure. If I could, Jeremy Reed, chief engineer. Not every culvert over six feet is necessarily in the bridge program either. So there could be a project in the roadway program that is an existing three foot culvert that we're making an eight foot or 10 foot culvert, and that could be in roadway program.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yeah. I yeah. And what I was intending to say was existing culverts, if it gets into the program, if it's less than six feet, it goes to the roadway program. If it's greater than six feet,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: it goes to the structures. If program And if it's gonna be upgraded to more than six feet, it would show up in here.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: It could still be in the roadway program.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: It can still be in the roadway. That's so it's pro what program it falls under is what the existing structure is. But we can take a three foot culvert, turn it into an eight foot culvert. It'll show up in the roadway program, but now classified as a bridge.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Okay. So where would so would I would still see it in the roadway and not in here? Correct. Okay. That's a little confusing. Well, because when it gets into design and we don't know we haven't done the hydraulic analysis. Of the time, what they did when they built these roads is they did two smaller culverts and two smaller open. And we are now, over time, you know, for any number of reasons, some environmental, but and and some just for flood mitigation are are picking those up. So it's hard to tell where they land in the articles.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: So so within the roadway program, if you look at white anything within STP coal as a number, TULV, is an existing colder less than six feet, but just given our current practices, I would say the majority of those will be in excess of six feet once completed. So,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: for example, the search from the bottom on the first page is Elmwood on Route 12. And it's one of those.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: Yeah, I was talking about program.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Well, I'm in the the bridge program.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: So that started at greater than six feet and will obviously continue to be greater than six feet. Yeah.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. Because I was gonna say over this more than 4,000,000, more than 4,200,000.0 is that's a pretty expensive cover. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That was

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Here's how the state highway bridge program had been funded over time. Now keep in mind, a lot of that additional money in '26 and '27 was caused by the flooding events and the permanent complacent projects for those structures.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And these are in what year's dollars? They are in the year that they were the funding was given to us. So the twenty sixth, twenty seventh, see a big jump from '24 to '27. How much of that is inflation?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Well, honestly, I'd have to go back and look to see what the, I subtracted out the ER projects that traditionally, you know, if we hadn't had these floods, wouldn't be asking for and see what those numbers were.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: But I think most of it's contributed to that and not really to inflation. When we hear from the agency and we hear 40% inflation, If this isn't adjusted to a certain period of time, so we're comparing year after year, it's hard to know.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: Yeah, we would have to I think Joe testified earlier that in '22 to '25, we saw 60% total inflation. If you were interested in a different time period, we can probably go back and provide that for you. If you want, for instance, say Yeah, 2010

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: yeah, yeah, he's right, if you just adjust it to a year, then when I'm looking at years, they are comparable.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yeah, I'll make a note for, I mean, we can certainly show it that way in the future if that's more helpful, so.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Well, is because I can't separate between the two them.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Yeah, and I think both ways would be helpful And then if you're able to do it maybe in eight or some sort of geographical Right.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Was thinking number of bridges that doesn't help because there's there's different sides of the cup.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Right. We do a bunch of small ones.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right. And make it look

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: like a. We could do a bunch on the interstate and we get the higher match and who knows?

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: But it was I'm more concerned, and I think it's important to know if how it compares to the graph. You go back to work condition.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yep. I'm getting to that. Are you?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah, he's getting

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: there. That basically tells you what we are now with the system. Yeah, tells me where we're headed.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. Are we keeping up our houses? Yeah.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: So this is just a funding breakdown. You can see there's a few more categories for state funded projects. We've got 2,900,000.0 or so on the T fund, 7,300,000.0. The interdepartment, that's the transfer for the flood money. So that's the state funds associated with the ER projects. And then you can see there's some local share, and that's mostly for utility type work that's not participating. And then 6,100,000.0 in the TIP. Some highlights, we've got 29 permanent ER projects that I talked about that are gonna spend 38,400,000.0 in FY27. We're replacing bridge on Route 100 in Greensboro that's gonna spend 10,500,000.0. This will be the second year of construction for that project. Eight bird written maintenance projects to spend 5,300,000.0. We're still working on the Woodster and Elmore projects. This is hopefully the last year of construction, we believe, and

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: it's So this book has 4.2 for the Coburg and Elmwood. Where is that?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: It's on 12, but I don't

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: know exactly. Do you know where which one it is?

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: Off the top of my head, no.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: It's at one right there by leg count one.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: We can get through that. Don't know.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah, that would be helpful because well, two of that that would be the other three are 900,000. Well, this is just

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: what we're spending at. We plan on spending in FY '27. So that project's already under construction. Okay.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Well, it says FY '27 go over as recommend, and I'm in the line item, and it says for '27, April. So I'm, you know, just trying to make a change. Maybe it was a rounding issue.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: I don't know if they're labeled separately, Jeremy.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: Will be a lead pin. Okay. So if they're bundled projects, so the 5.1 is probably for all four or in the lead project, maybe in Elmore, that is four point something itself.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah, that's what I was Okay.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: K. I know we don't have anyone from Orange County in this committee, but one that tops a bridge, what is the detour that folks are gonna have to do while that bridge is down? That's a that's if I'm looking at the right bridge, that's a pretty important bridge in that community. I think you basically, if you were, what if you were going on, you'd have to go back on Route 25 and it's a 17 mile detour?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: I can certainly provide that information to you. I don't have it offhand. We will definitely have a detour package in the plans already, I can certainly share that with you. Okay.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: I just know that if you're gonna be sending people around that area, that bridge, people usually you'd have to go on a Class III or IV road in some instances to make up the Yeah, I don't know. I just I feel if I'm looking at the correct bridge, 23, you're gonna have some community pushback if you haven't already.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Well, I mean, we've already done outreach and have an agreement with them. So.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay, so you feel that that has been, because I know there was a detour for a while up there that I heard about that was causing some consternation. So we might want to connect with our colleague, Senator Benson, to see if he has any thoughts on it.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Okay, and I will share what the detour point is.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: And while you're at that, didn't we have one time legislate a maximum detour that could happen before you did a bridge like that and closed it completely? Isn't there something in statute that gives a maximum time or a distance? It was, I recall doing that years ago and it was mainly about emergency vehicles and stuff and people moving to people. Does that ring a bell?

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: No, didn't mean be fine.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Smart idea though. Thank

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: you. It says in here rewind channels. Does that mean you're getting in the river? Yes. That's what you feel.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: What that record? Or say

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Well, that's at the bridge on on Route 2 that we had significant scour issues with and had to close it for a short amount of time to mitigate that. You're going get back into the river? We are going to get back into the river do some channel reconfiguring and get it more heavily armored so we don't have that issue happen again.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: You can't armor your way out, is my view, but you really should just have, you know, allow it to go. Because it seems like you armored it to such that it's not going to go over that floodplain anymore.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Yeah, well, I can just say that it's currently in design and we have some national hydraulics experts and consultants looking at that particular design.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: You're going change the curves because the mistakes have been there and try to soften that.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: I'm not sure exactly what they are proposing currently, but I know it is in mid line. I can share details that we have if you're interested in that.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I'd say the money for one of the cliff roads from there is going to fall in, people fall into the river. That's the part. We're worried about that.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: That would be schema money.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I don't know if it's schema if it's lonely or roads.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: And then the last four projects there were, projects that were added with the, yep, that we're proposing to add with the additional, state funds.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: So you're adding those, so that's funding that you weren't, that was not in the budget before?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Correct. So

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: here's what the graph looks like for poor condition bridges on state system. You can see that we're doing pretty well, really, currently at 3%. So well below our goals. And then with current funding levels, we are projecting that to go up in the future.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: I can see that. Mhmm. And the corn dropped. They have the corn. Yeah. I mean, we were there at one time.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yep.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: When we did a

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: We were high.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: We were really high.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: You can see 2,008, we were at 16 feet.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. We were. And

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: it took channel three news and the transportation, many on a bus to crawl under bridges Oh,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: were you when I got Sue into her? I'm just a bridge in Yeah. And. Yeah. I was there.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Yeah. Because we were all there.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: It was

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: it was not good. You paid the troll.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Yeah. Yeah. It was bad.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: We got the editorial board. So

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: they didn't We came along and We've come a long way. To not to drift back that way because it's really hard to get

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: to get it It's really hard to you you have to have a great recession and federal money and Irene to get stuff picked up. And

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: I I will say I do think the the leadership that has shown that we that you've all shown around bridges staying stable away from raising up to that very poor amount. I look in comparison to the paving lines that we're seeing, it was a big relief at the beginning of the year when we were showing how low those get be. So that, I know, takes a lot of work.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Appreciate that, thank you.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Penn G reports, the projects have been programmed since FY '26. So the culverts in Rochester on Vermont 73 were identified as an emergent need line item. Here's your greenfield project. This is a project that have increased by more than 8,000,000 or by more than 75% compared to the FY twenty six estimate. Bridgewater, we we actually had to change the scope of that project because we did a more recent inspection and we determined that it just can't be rehabilitated, so it needs to be completely replaced. And then the two PM projects, again, they had additional findings when they get out to the bridge and they just found more work that needed to be done. And then projects that have increased by more than 10,000,000 or more than 100% compared to the preliminary plan estimate, all of these projects have the same thing in common. They all had to eliminate their preliminary plan estimate well before all of this inflation happened and then went to construction after. And that's and they're big projects, that's why they're in here. So.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Seems to be all in the South. Yeah. The water a

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: lot of storms. Oh, actually, the whole state has had a lot of storms.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: In the both the inter part of the both times where that's most likely going to be funds like FEMA or ER funds.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: Well I don't think it's FEMA because it's federal highway money. It's Federal Highway ER program. And the fund transfer is just interdepartment because I and maybe Jeremy knows where the flood money comes from, from a state perspective.

[Jeremy Reed (VTrans Chief Engineer)]: So that's AOA under Doug Perchlik providing us a state match for the Federal Highway ER funds. So it's always going

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: to be ER funds. Yes. I

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: see our green light blinking. I just had one question about the Springfield project.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: We're going to have him we're gonna break off and have him back if you wanna ask your last question and because tomorrow we gotta be sure that we get out there early because we're

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: gonna have to have work

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: at all. I think we're on notice today. We are. Yeah.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: And you're up on like four different, you've got a lot of reports you have to do specifically.

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: So I'm through the state highway budget so I can come back whenever you guys want to do the town highway. I know there's gonna be a lot of questions around the town highway program.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Have Megan rescheduled of you to come in. If Yeah. Wanna ask her.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: So for this Springfield project, I know when you did the Hartford project, there was a lot of night work that was done and that was greatly appreciated by the community because it meant it wasn't causing traffic delays during the day. What is the plan for night work versus daytime work at this location and would you consider if So you haven't already doing some nighttime

[Jim Lacroix (VTrans Structures Program Manager)]: that project, that Springfield project is on the interstate. We're going to have crossovers in place to switch traffic over to the other barrel. If it was beneficial to VTrans, we can get some cost savings by reducing constructive time, I'm sure we will allow the contractor to work at night. We haven't necessarily discussed that with the contractor yet. We do have a contractor on board that is That project is a CMGC project where we bring in the contractor prior or during the design phase to help develop what a schedule will look like, if there's efficiencies with the plans that they can see by phasing, sequencing work a certain way. And then what happens is we go through a very explicit federal highway, cost reconciliation project process where we have an independent cost estimator. The agency does an estimate, the contractor does an estimate, and then we come together and agree on a final price. So that's the that's how that Springfield project is coming together. And so, again, if there was benefit to the agency with reducing construction times or cost for them working at night, then we would certainly entertain that.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Okay. Well, it

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: would be a benefit to the people if we can reduce the amount of traffic that's gonna be caused because that's a heavy commute area right there. People get just during two times during the day and when school gets out.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Understood. Thank you. Okay. Yep.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: And