Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Meeting technician/host (unidentified)]: You're live.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: We're up to him. We

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: are live, and we're gonna jump back in, and we're talking about s two eleven for a vehicle inspections. Damn.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Alright. Matt Russo, deputy commissioner for DMV. So we're presenting what we'll call a framework or our position on a two year inspection proposal. And you as soon as you describe what you would like to see, and so that's what we're gonna follow-up with today, a rollout, what that would look like, maybe the current inspection program, and then what would be effective for Vermonters

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: in that.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Like, Dakota had testified the last week, I believe. Obviously, there's gonna be a revenue adjustment fluctuation due to when this rolls out, if it were to roll out, and that would need to be very precise in order to not lose revenue. The cost of the inspection stickers right now, the adhesive for the stickers was made for a certain time period. So, of course, that's gonna need a new adhesive, higher cost for stickers, and finding a vendor that can supply an adhesive for that long. Our contract with parsonage, of course, would need to be updated. And it's not just about stickers and about the AVIP program. It's also about coordinating with DEC emissions. Our system is is built right now for doing inspections annually and testing emissions in a certain way. So all of that would need to be adjusted. Communication to inspection stations would need to be done, and what that would look like, how long it would take. DEC has already testified. Again, we would need to have coordination with them, which may or may not take a while depending on what the process looks like. And then the biggest impact, of course, is MBUF. Vermont is gonna be one of the first few states to roll out with the program that's finding this this lost revenue in gas tax. And implementing that and researching it is gonna be extremely important, and switching to a two year model would take away what they've already built based on a one year annual inspection. So our proposal, we remain not opposed to a two year inspection, but we are apprehensive based on what we've just discussed, again,

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: m b u

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: f being the biggest issue. We would propose that we get together with all stakeholders to discuss what the framework would look like, come up with a report due for January '27, with an effective rollout date for the following year. That would give us time to discuss all of this with all of the stakeholders. And because this is an important change and affects so much, I think it's important to make the right decisions, because this will directly affect Vermonters,

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: in several ways. And it would

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: give us time to discuss how we're going to implement this with mBuff down the road after that's been implemented. We can strategize, review, report out to the committee by January, with our findings, how this would look, a framework, and then and then go from there for a possible 28 rollout, or whatever is decided. This is as you can see, it inspections have steadily declined since 2019 and increasing. 9.7 decrease just in revenue alone, which is which is impactful for sure. I think one of the biggest reasons for a decline is possibly the ambiguity in the inspection manual itself. I know as you you have the rotor that we that we talked talked about last year. That's huge. And you can see that it it looks like the the cleanest rotor ever Mhmm. But was denied based on some rust. Right? So, again, ambiguity in the inspection manual.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So does that mean there's another 100,000 cars out there driving illegally?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: I don't have the numbers for how many cars have not been inspected.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: If the number of cars is self study or in each a little bit so that we would assume that there's those cars are

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: If we go from from 592,000 inspections down to 495,000 inspections. Same with cars.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Yeah. Mean, there are a lot of variables. I don't population. I'm not sure.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Did you drop your registered vehicles? I I have not. I don't have that number.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: I don't wanna speak to it without having an exact number for it.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: That should easily be done.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Is the registration from the infected? I can easily get those numbers.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I don't think people are inspected. Yeah. I'd be interested to see those for those years, how many registered registrations there.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Or how many vehicles were inspected, found out that their rotors gonna pass and said,

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: the hell.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Not gonna.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right. They might have had their initial inspection, but then get this.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Yep. And that will show as a fail. So it looks like you've got these fails, but it could be something that later on passed Mhmm. Or didn't pass, didn't go back.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right. Right. Do you also think it might have something to do with the color of the sticker being the same every year?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: I think so. And that's again, that's I didn't go over that, but that I I would include that in one of our impacts and that we would propose to change the color yearly or early or by any rate or whatever. And, again, that's gonna increase the cost of sticker itself if you're rotating because then you have to reconcile the leftover Oh, yeah. Stickers every year. And then we're the the next color. So this slide is showing what the is the common repair issue or or are the common repair issues that are reported by Vermonters in the report that we submitted. As you can see, brake rotors are huge. Buddy Russell, electrical, tires, steering and suspension, and emissions. We also it was reported that there is some inconsistency with the current process, which, again, leads to reminders to distrust the whole program. They they have voiced it on Facebook, social media, and in this report.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Jack, get you back up. I think Wendy has a question. Just a question about how how you who who were the people who responded and how is that apparent?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: We put this out last year, posted on social media. We had it advertised for all Vermonters. And I don't remember the number, but it's all in report when Alvermanters responded.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Okay. But it was social media, so the odds are that if you're angry, you're more motivated to respond. Right.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Okay. It was so these are the survey responses, what they said These are

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: the survey responses. Correct. Yeah.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: You have the real thing? Yeah.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: That it's it's in the report. I don't have it on here right now. I mean, it's it's very thorough. It's it's got quite a bit of information on there. And the another highlight would be the inconsistency on station costs for inspection ranging from anywhere from 61 to $280 per inspection per body. There's actually people charging 200 and dollars. But, again, it's just inconsistency. Oh, this is this is a survey. This is

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: the survey data. My case said it

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: was $2.80. Yeah. The $280 is what?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: It would it's what was reported from a reminder on what they paid for inspection. I would average if generally from 60 to $100 per application.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So we don't get that information? The state

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: That's all in the

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: state doesn't get that information

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Right. Officially.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: How much? We don't. There's no guidelines for how much an inspection technician can charge.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So the question that I had about that is is the rust piece safety related? I can, you know, in my rough looking at this, I can say, for when comes out, brake rotors, Tar's if you blew a front tire when you yes. Steering, probably yes. I'm not sure if you've got suspension. How much of this is pure safety? How much of this is, the admissions is pretty clear at 21%, but how much of the rest of this is it could not be safety related.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: So that brings me to the next slide, which is our proposed changes to the inspection manual. Again, ambiguity in the inspection manual leads to a little bit of confusion, maybe. There are a lot of different things that could be wrong with a tire that lead to a fail. And we've we've tried to narrow down these the specific list of things, by what is a safety issue and what is not. We haven't finalized it, but these are some of the categories for our proposed changes in the inspection manual. Our proposal is that to have a bigger impact on Vermonters now in the interim while we're waiting, is to be able to chain make these changes, through DMV immediately, rather than the rule change process, which in addition to communication with stations and eight plus months it would take, this would allow us to do it now, rather than up to a year waiting, which would have a huge impact.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Go ahead. When you do that if you do that, would you be doing it in conjunction with the somebody, say, AMVA, or would you just be making that decisions on your own?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Not on our own. We've researched other states' inspection programs with a useful language. We've reached out to inspection stations, see what they thought, were some of the issues with manual, what would be a safety concern, what would not be a safety concern, change a lot of it to a warning so that the consumer is aware of what the issue is rather than failing and putting it back on the road.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I I would just like to make sure if we're doing this, we get it right Mhmm. The first time. We don't have to come back and, you know, visit, revisit it. Exactly.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Question comes in, what's immediate? What do you what are you talking for a timetable for this when with DMV be in a position to have a new printed booklet ready to go? We already have our proposed changes pretty

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: much ready to go for a new book, but we would need to wait to see if that was gonna go through the rulemaking process or not. If it was, we'd be ready to submit.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I think we can have a discussion with our counsel, but I think there's a way where we could have you give you the authority, especially if we know what the changes are ahead of time. We can put those almost in statute or give you the authority to

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: do them, but then have the rule making process still happen once at a later date, we're not waiting for that whole thing instead of just a blanket exemption from it? I think there's really there would be three ways. There's one, we could do approval through statute here in the legislature somehow. There's expedited rules and then there's the regular rule making process. So without changing the rule making process, because I will tell you I think it will be any bill that allowed DFA to go out around the rulemaking process. I know the committee next door will be interested in that, and there will be multiple committees interested in it. That's a whole separate fight unto itself. But separate from that, I almost think the quickest path now might be, you know, some approval here. Mhmm. If those rule changes came before this committee and they were before the March that they came, this committee could put something in the DM miscellaneous DMV bill. Mhmm. But that Sure. So, we would, you know, from my vantage point, we would look, I think, to you and what that timetable might be. I think there's still in this committee interest in looking at a two year inspection. Mhmm. And we're either going to instruct our counsel through Damian to lay out that process. I'm not real clear, and you've got proposed changes on the bag, but as you go through that, I think the important thing here is if we're going to have our drafts people lay out a picture going forward with all of this, you're need to going to need to be clear with with our drafts person to get it down on paper what this all means and when. Absolutely. K? Agreed. I think that there are we're fine with we're open to change or or agreeing on something. Yep. We just wanna

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: get the feedback for reminders so they feel like they're being heard and not just saying, hey. We're gonna push it down the road.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: You know? Okay.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: I want it to be done now for them, and then say, hey. We're working on this. You know? It's it's gonna be done. Just not immediately. Go ahead.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. I've because if we could fix this problem, I think that the need to go to two years is reduced because this is I mean, I would just want to get rid of it or get rid of anything that's not an immediate, you know, in danger. There's a bill in the house that's our age three thirty oh, three five. Yeah. $353.05 $8.08 from representative who you might wanna look at. But ACU is basically kinda trying to get to the same thing. He's more of a more draconian. He's just basically saying if it if it's not an immediate safety issue, then they just get a warning. Basically, you should mind looking at these brakes, they're questionable, but we're getting passed. So then you still have the inspection, you don't have to worry about the MBOF or the emissions or other items. But the main problem that I'm trying to address is that people are not passing inspections for things that they shouldn't be allowed on driving vehicles. Exactly. That's causing people not to be able to have a vehicle or get the active fees when they do get a ticket. Absolutely. And so if there's a you guys have already identified these things. Mhmm. You know, we can just do that. For me, that would meet the the need. At least the bill I introduced them.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: When when would you be ready to come in here with an outline of suggested changes?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Would you want the suggestion two ways. I guess, are we talking about

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: it in the draft legislation form? Because I just don't know how long do you

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Well, we would give the authorization to go ahead with the booklet, the mandible pages, whatever. But I think what we need to understand is what would those changes be to the manual.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Absolutely. And we we have it. We we can supply it. We'll be in next week if we wanna try to fit it in at the same time, we'll be in for our plate response as well. Go ahead.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Thank you, mister chair. I think it would be good for us to review an updated draft of this 02/11 and decide kinda, either decide, are we gonna do something, are we not gonna do something this year, is it going in the DMV bill? And I've got a couple of requests that I've sent to Damian with changes already, some that we identified yesterday that perhaps weren't intended to be in the bill, including extending the date of when the bill would be introduced to, I think, the really well explained timeline that we got from Ms. Coda. Then also changing the requirement around anyone who had the every year infection still not also getting the increased fee. So those are two kind of basic changes. So it would be great if we could review a new draft of it at some point and maybe include this part in it because I've got a couple other things in there that

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I think we're we were saying the same thing Yeah. Differently. If we're going to do changes to the manager, I'm he from what, and this is the first time I've heard that that could move quickly, that we might do in the miscellaneous DMV bill. I think there is, we don't wanna drop the idea of making sure we review and set a path for two year inspections. That we're gonna ask Damon to put together a new draft with you that realizes what your timelines and your pieces are, and I'd like you to weigh in with your pieces with Damian so we can get a new draft of two eleven in that overall piece to be able to move ahead with that. Right. When would you like that? We're gonna have to look at the schedule. We're a little influx on the schedule. It would probably be Tuesday of the week after this one coming. Okay. Do we have a date for a public We don't have a date for a public hearing because I wasn't sure where what the draft was going to be until now. So if we had that if we got some sort of a draft from Damian, next week we'll decide on how to do a public time. Right?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Perfect.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: But we need, I think we need a draft before we say we're gonna have a public hearing because the public hearing would be on what draft are we looking at.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yes, and I think pushes us out. I just worry, you mentioned the AT phase quite a bit, and I think we're bumping up against it. So if we're doing this draft is coming not next week, but the Tuesday after, it would be nice to plan to either have that week be the public hearing for the following week Yep. At the very least. Because if we wait beyond that, we're past town meeting day.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So, it gotta be I was thinking the week before we go on town meeting break Oh. Just the end because our date is the twentieth, but the problem is we're gone that week. So it would be, like, February 26?

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. By the other twenty sixth. Okay. Yep. That's really helpful. Thank you.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Okay. Yeah.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: We'll get that off as soon as possible. Okay.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And if we have openings in the schedule next week, we might do it. Sure. But in my head, I'm thinking, you know, how early do you think it could be? If we said Tuesday, could you be in here?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. I I think we Well, I'm You just

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: gotta press on the language until Yeah.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: We don't need to draft it. We have the proposal ready, but it's not in the language. Like, know, I'm saying language. That's fine. But we could share. Well, ours would be approved. We just have to understand what the manual changes are. Yep. We can. Absolutely.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Well That'd be great.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Let's let me talk to Megan, but the latest would be that Tuesday.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. K. What day are you on next week? Tuesday at

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: nine at Sunday. I'm. But you're We're ready to see. Alright. That would be awesome, but I wanna make sure you're ready.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Yeah. Yeah. Let's circle back. We'll chat with Megan here. But it'll be some point next week at the

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Okay. So did you want to add anything more?

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: No, I think Matt kind of hit hard. We are, again, we want to just make sure the two year conversation that it's done right. We we have a very strong opinion that we can a little bit pressure relief to make these changes and give them on our some relief on the inspection. But these changes we're gonna talk about next week or that at least in the short term will help, we feel quite a bit. It'll be seen the same way.

[Jack (DMV official, surname unknown)]: Okay.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Great. Thank you. Thank you. We've got fifteen minutes before the UVM was born.

[Matt Russo, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont DMV]: Alright. Have a good weekend.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: You too. Warm.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: They Take a break.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: They're on they're coming out too. Yep. Okay. So if we could be here, it's five minutes or eleven. Yeah. There's