Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: You're live.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: It is Tuesday 2026, and this is the Senate Transportation Committee, and we are here today with the commissioner of motor vehicles and his deputy. And we're talking about the miscellaneous DMV. I think you're on. Good morning.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Thank you, senator. Andrew Perchlik, commissioner DMV for the record. And deputy Matt Russo was unable to get a family emergency pop up, so our director of legislative affairs, Jordan Villa, is here. Moving to the head. So I will get started going through a miscellaneous bill. I'll start with section one, which if that works for the committee, I'll just run through as Damian did. Mhmm. So this change is just following federal law, which is can't issue multiple credentials to an individual. So we're just saying your highest credential is the one that you're gonna that you're issued. You can have multiples out in circulation.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Section two And is there any offshoot to any of this? Why wouldn't would is there any reason to be opposed to this?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Not that I'm aware of. I mean, it's something you'd think would be standard practice. We're just solidifying it here. We can't really think of any reason that would be a downside to it. Okay.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: What did you say if there was two, the one that was most recently issued?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: It would be the highest highest level. So if you have a a non driver's ID and then a driver's license, you've it'd be the driver's license that would be the only available

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: definition, hard information circulation. Yeah.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Section section two, replacement licenses, then also that drops into section three with the learner's permit. This is in reference what we already supply for corrections with people coming out when they release a non driver's ID card. And our thinking is instead of adding additional processes, so when someone just gives their ID, then comes in to get their license, if they have a valid driver's license, so let's move them up to the highest level credential that they have at the time when they're incarcerated. Granted, if it's beyond three years, we'd have to, as everyone else, we'd have to get the process started to renew. But for those three and under, it would allow us to just get that person back, if they have driver's license, to get a driver's license card back. There's no difference in price between the two verification cards, at least on the production side of it. So right now, we have about 500 a year, and that's about $2,000 it's $3.30 per identification card. I would just say we don't have clear numbers on the enhanced driver's license. That is a higher fee for us to produce that card, but

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Mhmm.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Not sure that'd be a high number. So

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Did Corrections sign off on this?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah. So we've been we've talked with Corrections, spoke with commissioner on that. They are in full support that any any ability to get people off on the right foot, they are supporting of of those bastions.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Are you aware that there is a bill h five forty nine in house institutions, and I was approached by the chair of that committee, particularly from the corrections side. And they are working on a bill, and, she, came in here completely surprised this showed up in this bill. And institutions in the house does have purview over, this. And, she brought up a number of issues with me, and I'm not a corrections as expert. So but I'm not opposed to going ahead with this, but there's no sense us sending something over to the house that immediately they're gonna have issues with. So therein lies my question, have you talked to corrections and have you done the work around this in your Corrections? Yes. We spoke with Corrections, referenced our section that

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: we had put in. Our team has been in institutions last week to actually speak on that bill that you referenced, chair. And really, this is just operationalizing a what we feel is a process to eliminate duplication of efforts. For us, this is just a we're already printing non driver cards, so why would we not get them to the highest level instead of creating a separate work process when we come back with them again for us? It gets us instead of seeing this person twice, we get them out the door, hopefully, in one transaction while they're in corrections to the highest. Again, I I did speak with commissioner Moran before the session started on this section, and I can't speak directly to the the house bill that came out, how that went with what they worked with, correction, if they didn't work with, but we have testified on on that bill. Our team gave them information that they know they're trying to work out some some details on because that would encompass detainees, which is just what we currently have in statue now in adjusting what's already in in place.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Well, will, Megan, we should have the corrections committee.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: They're coming on Wednesday.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: What?

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: They're coming Wednesday.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Senator Harris.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Thank you, Mr. Chair. And so, corrections or a senate institution should look at this, but we can talk about the mechanics of that. It does seem to be something that would be positive for the folks getting out of incarceration, but just so that we keep our processes I

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: said to the chair of the institutions committee in the house that if we can all agree upon language, if arrives in here and then they do a separate bill, it's two places where more are short of getting it through. I'm not I personally have no pride of ownership in any of this, so but I think it would be important that we get a recommendation from, your committee and you suggest how you think it ought to move ahead.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Okay, sounds good.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: So again, section three was in that same category as section two. Section four, insufficient funds. This is just updating what we already have in place for for checks so that we can when we have situations with the electronic funds being paid that there's the same application of of I don't wanna say penalty. Mix it, but penalty. Yeah. That would apply as someone that writes a check that shows that since How many MDs do we have a year?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: It's one. Definitely can find that. I mean, you bet.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I think it would be helpful to have some background. You know, here's part of my concern. All of these banks hold money for days. I, last week, deposited electronically a rent check that came in on Friday, Friday morning. It never showed up in my account. Granted, it was a there was a holiday on Monday, but it never showed up in my account until Thursday morning. And as you work through and you pay bills, sometimes we had those lag times in those pieces. In the old days when I took a check-in and I put the check-in in the bank, it showed up directly in my account. It doesn't anymore and there's this whole back and forth. We have an ever increasing number of people that don't register their vehicles and are driving without registration, without inspection and doing all of those sorts of things. If I've got somebody that is trying to do the right thing and there's a lag time for money that ends up in their account, I have some sympathy for the individual that's just trying to do the right thing and it may be inadvertently because there is timing in this.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Absolutely, I wanna So be

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: some I sympathy for the person trying to do the right thing, that it may end up being just a misjudgment on the time that money's gonna get their account. What I don't wanna is encourage more people to not register their vehicles.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah, absolutely. I just wanna be clear. I know it's the highlight of the immediately paid in here. Our current practice is thirty days, and we do best we can to make contact and work with individuals when we have situations that there's a hiccup in the funds that happen. This is just

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: kind of would be nice to know how many. It would be nice to know why. Give some background about what processes right now. If somebody sends something in, is this they run the money in and you've charged them and there isn't money in the account, but within twenty four or forty eight hours, there is money in the account, and they've just made a mistake. Are we just dinging them?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Not on that axial. No. I I didn't I can tell you that much. Well, we'll get that done in

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I advance for I don't know what the process is and how it is, so I wanna make sure that we're I don't wanna encourage more people to not do the right thing and register their BLOs. Yeah, absolutely.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: We'll get those data points for you. Section five. I know we I know we spoke about it last year, and we're we're back talking about display plates again on the on needing it for the front. This is our is our attempt to kinda what we see out in the landscape with I know Vermont Greens is a big one that that came through. We spoke with quite a bit about this. Just this weekend, UBM was asking why they don't have a special license plate, it it creates People. Okay. The special use plates, it's creating a a kind of situation where DMV's arbitrating what is good or what should be out there and what's supported. We feel since Irene, the front license plate's been not really a big thing here in Vermont since Irene since the Vermont strong plates. We had the the temporary printed plates, which people ran for the they're still running. So you can say there's no front plates in most vehicles. That it allows organizations to print their own front license plates. They get 100% of the profits, and they have their own designs that

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: would allow that to go forward while we Are you are you gonna have a proposal for us around what you would like to do? I'm just gonna and I'm open to any questions around the table. For me, if we're gonna bring up the whole license plate issue, I'd like to have a whole discussion about what do we want. I'm more than willing to and I think people at the table are willing to look at one plate We're we wanna be respectful to the treasurer's position and Vermont Green. We understand that other wanna think about the whole issue of license plates holistically and where do we wanna go. Ollie, I have I personally have heard that you were gonna have a proposal on something. But when it comes to something like the Vermont Green, so we need to have a full discussion about all of this from my point of view.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Sure. We'll print something out on that. The proposal is to go away with front plates. Yeah.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Are you going to have a a reaction to the proposal that the treasurer fits in?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yes. So we we'll stall it out and bring it in for that. Our take is We'll write out a little more eloquent. Ahead.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So on this section, I mean, I I had issues with it last year. I feel like we're just seeing the same exact proposal again without any new information on what the benefit would be for Vermonters because if I'm understanding the language, we're still charging folks as in your budget. I believe this is captured in your budget, is you're banking on this money. You'll be in a deficit with your budget if we don't do this. So I think that's a little unfortunate knowing that we explicitly like the same group of people last session told you, we don't wanna do this. So it's a little frustrating to have a budget created and this proposal in here knowing that the same group of people told you we didn't want to do it last year. I don't know what would change to this session. So now we're actually in a more difficult spot though, because if we don't approve this language, we have to backfill your budget in some way, is my understanding with other proposals. Is that correct? So you're still charging folks for two license plate. The cost that we pay now, we're still charging them, but you're saving money as a DMV because you're not sending two. You're only sending one. So my understanding in your budget, and correct me if I'm wrong, is you are banking that savings within your DMV budget.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: So we we're not gonna see that much in the savings on it. So we're not showing that piece.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Oh, okay.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: And then, I just wanna be clear, I know we discussed this last year, and I know Senator Perchlik said in statute, I have the ability within five eleven to not allow it, and I said, I'm not gonna work with this committee and and the legislature to do it. So Wait. I know I know where you're saying there was discontent last year on doing that, but I did say I'm gonna come back and and try to work with legislature on that.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Anyway, this is the same proposal. So I guess that's where I'm confused is why bring the same well, that's that's just a a tactics issue, I guess. But if I heard you correctly, that was a little bit of you could do it anyway without our permission is what I just heard. You with five eleven, you could do this as the DMV commissioner, but you're kind of being grace you're giving us some grace by letting us decide. Is that kind of the implicit?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I am trying to work with what you said here. Because I know you're very You could

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: do it without us.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I didn't say it last year's center. You had said I ability to do it, and I said I'll I'll come work, not make a unilateral decision and Okay. Operate that

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: way.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: So you wouldn't do that if we said we did?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: From last year, I was gonna come in here, and this is us having the start of this conversation.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay. But I guess I just wanna just really understand. So I know how I'm making a decision. If we don't approve this session five, are you as the DME commissioner so I do the board

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: with I I don't have the intent to move forward on that.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay. That I really appreciate that. That makes this discussion a lot easier because it feels like there's not, like, a overhang of well, I can do it anyway, so it doesn't really matter. And that's kinda what I'm trying say. So thank you for the clarity. I just, yeah, I still have issues with that section.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Can I just add, I think the senator brings up a good point? What's the cost savings for this? And I think we should know all of that in the back room, sorry.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, no, and that would exact that you that's my exact question is if I thought it was in your budget. So if you could identify that piece for me, that would be really helpful. I'm more I will say with all of that luster, I am more open to it this year than I was last year in large part because I would like to work with the DMV on the inspections piece, and I do see some ways that reducing the number of inspections could limit your budget. So I think this is I'm more open to this discussion this year for all that. Go ahead.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Commissioner, the other day when you were in here, you said something like we're not enforcing the front plate requirement, and I don't know if you meant we, D and D, or we in the statement.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: No, I meant Sorry, it was more of a general law enforcement statement. I know I gave you the stats on on the tickets written for it, and and majority of those were just in one town. So it's

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: And do you know why that is? You have an I have a theory. I don't know if when you were

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I calling you had that. Yeah. So I I have stopped for that. I I can't remember if I ever wrote a ticket. Don't believe I did, to be honest with you. Just to be like a bread hearted ear.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. But there hasn't been a decision by

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: state police to deemphasize that or No, no, and that's strictly discretion of the officer, trooper, deputy patrol. And

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I know you said you wanted to come in and get a different answer, on Vermont Green or whatever it is, what understand DMP's position is, and it's okay to say you're still working on it, you'd rather just have an official Vermont plate on the back and then have whoever wants to put on the front plate, can do whatever they want, that's there. But just just keep the Yeah. Vermont plate so we don't have, you know, 25 different plates on the back. Correct. This would solve that problem instead of having each group come in every year and want their own official plate given the ability to have a plate on track. Okay, yeah, it would be good to know savings. Think we've got that number from the CFO in other years, an estimated number of what it costs. It wasn't a big number, but all dollars are important at this point. Would like to get you about the chair. I would like to hear from, well, definitely from the,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: you know, patrolling officers, let us be state police. That was I know you've already

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: said that.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And I think I'd like to know how many tickets have been written, if any.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. Well, like, I'm pretty sure you gave us stats on that.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yep. And that first thing I was saying here last week is approximately a 190 tickets were in last year. Again, as I mentioned, I think a majority of those are just one one single town in Southern Fremont.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Was it, like, a 180 of the 190 put that down?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Or Yeah.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: It's six I think it was pretty close to that. Okay.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Closer to 180.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah. Okay.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: That it would be nice if the state police aren't writing any, which I get I hear one town is writing a lot, but it would be nice to get a picture of what's going on.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right. You know, even in other if other municipalities are purposely not doing that. But then also in the past, I don't know if we did this last year, we heard from bike and pedestrian advocates because they, in my experience, really like the front license plate as a safety issue to be able

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: to identify the vehicle. It would probably be local motion. Probably is best. Yeah. If could you contact them about that? Thank you. And that's kind

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: of the safety public safety issue is my my main issue not working in the past.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Okay, we'll get a lot of motion in here, and if there's anybody else that thinks of anybody. And

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: we're trying to get a contact from, I spoke with Colonel Jones, Ohio State Police. They recently, couple years ago, went to single rear single rear plate. So I've asked them if he has someone that could come testify or be a resource as well.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: That would be great if if they've seen anything unusual that they didn't expect, it would be nice to hear

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: from them. And is there any other I did a quick look the other day. It seems like about half the states do it. There any new Northeast states? All the Northeast states are still requiring both? I

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: believe all both we can get the exact data points on it. I believe all our both, with the exception of, it depends what you consider Northeast, but our neighbors to Quebec don't Yeah. Have a front plate with me. But that's been a long time. Both Quebec and Ontario.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Just at one time?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: What? Just at one plate? They've had

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: they didn't spend in one plate for a long time.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I think all of New England and New York still requires.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. My you know, living in a town where we have a recreation piece.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: If you met a car, you said, oh, that's from Ontario.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: I don't have any other questions.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Is there anybody else that you think we might wanna help in about this?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: We will get some names shortly. Just some local I just wanna touch base on first to make sure they're okay with it, but

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: But I I would in the context of because we have license plate proposals out there and everything. Start the conversation about all of that. And if you're going to have a a proposal, I haven't heard in the chair AMV say yes or no to the I I heard you raise some issues, but we haven't had definitively a yes or no from you about the treasurer's proposal. Right. And what what if you don't like it, if there's some some concrete suggestion about how we might move forward.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah. I I can say, Jared, and I apologize for convoluted. Our position on that is no, but we will, in our proposal, break it out on the

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: the website. My question is, is it a hard no? Is it here's all our our a no and here's our our alternative? What does that mean?

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Yep. Absolutely.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I also wanted to see on page eight of that section where about covering the number of plates. I I didn't know if you got this language from another state or if this does cover those kind of clear they look clear, but they're not changing the tint or colors of plate or the numbers of the letters, but they are designed to avoid license plate readers.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: So that would cover anything covering the plate. Okay. Like, you can't have the plastic cover. You can't have the plastic coverings now or Right. Yeah. This just touches on on changes are just enough so it covers the colors and the tints, which is where we're running the issue I've explained last time with people getting that film put over the whites. Right. It's kinda like this weird loophole, if you will. Yeah. Okay. Where you can't have a covering over it, the actual color of the plate, don't discuss. You could probably get technical and say, that's illegal right now, but I think

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: we're probably running some issues in So maybe that part just isn't here because it's not for the whole statute. That's good to know. That's already been out of line.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: We're gonna move on to section six. Yep. Section six, the notch in this is moving the fines up and make it so we can just stop talking about this, hopefully, once and for all. But it'll be ten and twenty. And that, again, when you move to section seven, it's putting some pressure also on the driver, him or herself as well. Because right now, the Peter says the company is kinda puts a little more pressure onto the the driver. I know there's discussion about if points were high enough or not. You know, five was where we thought coming in, but we're we're certainly open to who wanna make adjustments to the to that value as well.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I have to listen to this all the time. When you the agency put chicanes up last year, and then they took them down on the snow side and they left them up on the on the north side, on the smug side, and they took away what is during high sea seasons, pretty valuable parking spots. Some of

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: the locals went

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: crazy. And you what my experience has been with community, enforcement and our rescue squads that end up there a lot, Most of these drivers don't own their trucks. They're working for company. And quite frequently now, the company will go and to some like Google Maps or one of the mapping company, and the individual gets told, you're going to drive this way. And when they're a little inexperienced, if they deviate from what the company tells them, they're in trouble. So I can understand how somebody that doesn't know the area and that gets stuck in it. And so I have some sympathy for the drivers that are under pressure in this. So some of this we're gonna have to hear about and understand a little better about this. And probably outside of this room, anybody that wants to at this table can join me, but I wanna have a discussion about the gates that are there that are now falling apart, what's the policy gonna be about the chicanes, are you gonna continue to put them up and then take them down on both sides? I don't want you treating one side of the notch differently from the other, because that doesn't go very well in my area. And I would like to have a conversation about the owners of the company that have laid out a path for these drivers to go, and then telling them your job depends on it to do that. If they're laying a map out for them on where to go, it's on the company. So I wanna have some, and I don't wanna take everybody's time at the table unless I hear from the rest of the members of the committee that they're interested in it, but I want to have a discussion of not opposed to the fines going up. But there are a number of issues around here that people in my community will that live in the immediate area will be interested.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Totally agree. I'm now representing the other side of that. Yep. I don't even know if everybody else got that to your center, which you can find them.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: They send their emails to you, but I Not everybody. Yeah. You're you're getting more and more. Very interested in

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: the issue. We took a lot of ethnomine on this. I don't must have been five years ago. When we first raised the fine and we made it that the locals could charge the company for the cost of un sticking the stockage. But we talked about the fees at that time, at that time wasn't really evidence you could make the $5,000,000 and it wasn't going to change the number of stuff. The people aren't making some kind of calculation and they said, it's a $1,000 or $2,000 is still going to notify that company that like, Okay, we got to make sure we don't do this again. They hadn't seen and released this testimony before repeat offenders. It was always a new truck. It wasn't like they didn't learn a lesson from the fine, although we did raise them to these amounts. So I think unless there's some evidence that $10,000 and $20,000 is going to make a difference, it just seems and there isn't a rationale for these numbers, which I'm assuming you don't have, but probably you did some research and have data behind why it shouldn't have been 1,000. I have a question about that, but I'm okay with the points. Think that is something to consider, although we heard a lot of testimony that when we took a lot of testimony on it, what that workers were told they cannot defer from the routes that they were told. They have, it's plugged into their, basically, the software in the truck. Like, if they don't go that way, their alarm goes off in headquarters, and they get a call, like, why are you not on your your we told you this is the fastest way to go. So I would hate for them to get penalized for just following the Yep. I would

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: just say instantly. I I've been to several stockingships up there. I've written the the those fines previously. This was the first time I've heard that companies are forcing those those routes. The time that I've been there, it's just they're following their GPS and I Yeah. The way it goes. I always have a hard time with that just because we have signs starting almost at the border to Canada and down here south, couple exits up, we started having sign boards. That was when I was working the road. So I understand the concern with drivers following company policy and that, but I don't see that any different than if we close the road for an accident and they have to take a different route. I mean, they're following, they have to follow what we institute on the road, not what the company says. Right. Yeah. And it's, there's been, there was one occasion where we actually, due to a stuckage, there was services needed to having someone get stuck in traffic and need to get through the other side for an emergency, and this it's frustrating.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I know.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I mean, those are so blatantly in there.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: So all this. Yeah. I I think one of the the inmates have gone around, it's like, we know how long it takes if you take this route. So if you take longer or if they're if they if they're GPS tracked, that's where they get in trouble. But yeah, you're right. If it's closed, they could call in and say, like, let's close out, figure out a different route. So they should be able to do that. But we also heard a lot of the drivers English isn't good. The signs, that's why they can pay attention to sign because they're just following a blue line on the on the map, so they don't they're not reading anything of the Definitely.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I do have some sympathy. Your company says, you're going to take this route, and you're in the truck as the driver for a company, and then you have to explain, well, why it's not. I think the company owns some responsibility. Absolutely. And and I would say in that case, if they if it's somebody that has a little has some issue with the language that it really is I have a lot more sympathy for that.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah, and we all do, and I think that's why the fines that are assessed at ten and twenty are to the company. And that's what we're

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: referring to.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: And sometimes a private company, right? Like it's just a guy It could be, but again, it's the company.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I would like to hear more about the chicanes that the chair said about the policy around when we're losing them, also, not are working? It seemed like we only had one stuck in since then or two, one that drove around it or

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: both We've of were about all one or two a year, and I think it used to be nine or 10.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: So

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: they are the chicanes are working. Right. Can we

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: just prevent them from driving around?

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Just my 2¢. I'm all in favor of increase in fines. Maybe that'll get the owners of the vehicles, the trucking companies, to buy their drivers the right Jeep. Yeah. Right. Have these guys did you say that yet? I'm No. Listed them and done two things at once, but I don't know how much more expensive they are, but these guys are using a regular GPS like I would to go to Boston or something.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yep. And that's the very last one I dealt with on the Stoke side. It was a a normal car, small GPS one, not even the the truck version. Correct.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: The truck one's told not to go that way. Yeah. And

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: then Yeah.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: They're just using their phone.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: And I did you know, it's because we're not just most. I'd like to think, you know, we try to make a report of people and and speak normally with people. And I I did that. You know, you during your course of your investigation, you know, you asked, did you see the signs? Yes. Did you wanna stop? No, my GPS kept saying go. And, but again, as you just point out, it's the wrong GPS.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. I will say to you that last year, the one truck that got stuff, that went through last year. Todd and I went to Matterhorn for dinner. We had dinner. We get out. It's like, crap. We stripped it right around one time last year. That's how it always works. It turns from fifteen minute Yep. To over an hour or so.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yep. And I think there is

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I mean, who are you doing?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I think Yeah.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: That there is, I remember, when

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: we were talking about

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: this or something else about fees that are just and reasonable or something, there's some wording around that, that you have to have $10,000 So I wondered if, so I don't know if we want to hear from the judiciary about that, Judge Soni or somebody might weigh in on that, but one idea is maybe figure out what the cost of that is and then set the price around that if it's, that's kind of like we want them to buy that so setting it up that.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Can you send something to Damien and ask Damien to do some research and what's the options around the fees. Yeah. And and then if we need to go beyond our staff, we can. Right. But he should highlight to us what the options are.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Because I think there is a defense. Like, one of these people actually hired a lawyer, they could maybe make a claim that it was a nonfifth amount. Like, you couldn't make a million dollars, I think. Right. Don't know you can throw that. So I don't where the line is.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: This

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: is a quick question or suggestion. There are ways to let the GPS folks know about things that should be changed. So have we done that?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: When we took the testimony before Senator Chittenden when he was on the committee, we tried to work on that and did not find a way. There isn't a way to call Google and tell them to change it. Guess maybe there's some way where you can file a report, but yeah, you get the time of DMV or AFP had testified that they have tried to contact Google and waive and not and had not had looked.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Oh, alright.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Well, I've I've been able to do it or folks I've worked with have been able to do it. They just don't always say yes. But I can investigate that some more.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Okay. Yeah.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Clerk)]: Okay.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Section eight, it's okay with committee. Would just, I know Damon's working on some revised language on it with our council. I just wanna make sure we can talk about it. We're we're in the right talk about the right language on it. But, in part, this was this was outside language from Copart, which is a auction house here in Vermont with salvage titles about just allowing electronic use for some documents. And I just wanna let that watch out behind the scenes first before I discuss this one. You know, more.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Go ahead. Can I ask

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: you a salvage title question if that's correctly related to this? But can you just clarify is a salvage title always salvage title? Like, or does can you can people get the salvage taken off, like, if they repair the vehicle? You know, somebody asked me, my constituent asked me this. You can't clear the title of the salvages.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. So I might just add, I've had people contact me and say they bought a car, they didn't realize it was salvaged and they felt duped.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right, because they can, so somebody can buy a salvaged car that we go and repair it and then come to you and say like, okay, I wanna get a, rebuild. Does it say rebuild on Okay. So it doesn't say salvage, but it lets you know that it was not as normal.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So it would be nice to get an update about all of this area then for people.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. So

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: it says rebuilt, not salvaged. I believe Deputy Commissioner Anderson was gonna do a presentation on salvage. That would be really good if they would because I'm not sure if the public really understands what rebuilt is versus salvage, and I really would hate to see somebody Yeah. I do have people that feel doomed by this. Yep.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Right. You could show us some example of that. Absolutely.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah. We have them on the books.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Do we have the the salvage yard who said that Cohort. Busted the language that I testified or he shared

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Who is They

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: are from me. Alrighty. Okay. Good. Perfect. So hurry up.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Perfect. One second. It's a section nine. Sorry. That's not always hard.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: So this is just allowing us to be able to print a title and hand deliver to a lienholder versus them when they come to the window or desk to then mail it once they've showed proper documentation that they're clean over and just removing that steps and being able to print at the counter now, and simple client.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Are waiting for an idol's cup in the mail right now at So I really appreciate this.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Section 10. So this

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: That's exciting.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: That's just Yeah. If you get a project version. And

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: then section 11 is a technical correction about that appeals are filed in Civil Division Washington Unit.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Don't go to the criminal court.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Section 12, again, was a technical correction breaking out that section. Section 13, abandoned vehicles. So this came from our agency partners within AOT that are working with a lot of abandoned vehicles and parking rides and campers that they are having difficulty with tow companies coming to pick up the vehicles because they're not getting reimbursed. If it's a van vehicle going through the process, a lot of the tow companies are now saying no. So this would allow them to hire a tow company and then we reimburse they would pay, then we would reimburse the agency versus us reimbursing a tow company on paper. So right now, if a tow company removes a vehicle, they can go through the abandoned vehicle process, They would have their toll fees reimbursed up to a $125 within this process. But toll companies are no longer towing vehicles. So this would allow the agency to hire a toll company to remove the vehicle, and then we would they would pay the toll company. We would then it allows us to pay state municipal agencies versus as the statute reads, just toll companies.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Go ahead. Okay. So a couple questions. So if I'm understanding correctly, this now allows you to because because here's my confusion. It's expanding the scope of who can now tow abandoned cars to municipalities getting paid for it?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: So it it allows state municipal agencies to pay a tow company directly, and we would then reimburse the local agency or state agency versus them say all the tow companies around say Hartford. Tow companies say, no, we're not gonna go deal with van vehicles in the current setup because we're not it's not worth it for us right now. This would allow Hartford to then hire the tow company to say

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Legendary Auto.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yep.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Go It's a three tow company, so I can name a few more.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: So Hartford and Miss Valley calling up saying, hey. Can you go please remove this vehicle? We're gonna pay it directly. Hartford then sends the invoice to DMV, and we pay Hartford.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay. Like, our part so it would be a state park and ride that so I guess I'm just confused. So it's like if they're let's say you're the Wilder Park And Ride, there's an RV, never happened before, it's there for months. That's a very expensive

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: It is.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Like, it's it can be, like, a thousand dollars.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: $56,000.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Like, it's really expensive. So we I don't get how a $125 would persuade an advantage. They're already on the list. Like, you're on the you can only call certain people. So I yeah. I guess I have a

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: So that that's a

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: you think call any.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah. So I guess and this is why I mentioned Chris Herrick coming to speak on this as well. This is already in statute right now. This is just trying to help open up some availability to start moving somebody's vehicle.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: No. I I totally agree.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I I totally agree with you. The fee on when you talk about campers and and removal and hazmat fees associated with that, I think that's a separate discussion.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Okay.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: This is just trying to quickly solve the vehicle portion of it. I know when we talk about campers and the associated hazmat costs with the bigger vehicles, but as you can see just on the the normal vehicle types, a lot of toll companies we're hearing are not no longer wanting to participate or or take abandoned vehicles.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: So are you seeing people so I guess that brings me to a couple questions. The folks would still have to call only approved abandoned vehicle tows. Because we specifically have taken certain people off that list because they were doing not great stuff or, like, charging exorbitant storage fees, for example. So if my understanding is correct, they can still recoup their money by, what, ninety days after a vehicle has been towed, they could file for the title of the abandoned vehicle and then they could sell it. So you're these are basically, like, the least sellable like, they're gonna get scrapped. They're someone's gonna be paying for it Yeah. Kind of vehicles.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: And then again, Chris Eric will can come and talk about I know the agency's been having vehicles towed to the AOT garages.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: So,

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: yeah, I'm paying solar again, but it runs they're into paying a towing fee, so we're just reimbursing what we'd normally reimburse the tow company that would normally take these vehicles, which are no longer willing to take these vehicles.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: And are you ever getting recouped payment from, let's say, someone that has identified, like, within those ninety days before it becomes a fully abandoned vehicle? When someone in this situation, let's say, go, oh, wait. I left my thing at the park and ride. Are you are are the recouped costs coming from the folks who own the vehicle originally? Because normally, they do pay for it.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: That would be to the towing company.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, exactly. We're paying the towing company and then they're gonna pay it again potentially.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: They're to the EMT. Right.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: That's a not if we're can only speak from the state side. The state side, we're grabbing these vehicles and then storing them at empty garages.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay. Just

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: because there's the current structure is not kinda working right now.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Okay. Well, I agree with the sentiment of we should be properly paying tow services to elicit them to come pick stuff up, and it sounds like the juices aren't worth the squeeze for a lot of them with these abandoned vehicles. So I appreciate that. But yeah. Is this mostly

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: on AOT? Do we got?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Supposed to be, like, your your parking garage, pull offs on state state roads. So this would mostly be AOT then? It came from AOT, but it it would allow us for municipalities to as well. So state agencies or or municipalities to reimburse on it.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Would it also Yeah. I mean Would it also include if the state trooper said, you know, it's a total vehicle, can you go tow it? And then they tow it off the road, know, to get off the road or off the shoulder because we heard complaints in the past that they would go there and the troopers say, yeah, tow it, we need to get it out of here. They're like, don't think this person's ever going to come pick it up.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: And

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: they're like, no, no, you'll get your money, and then they have to go through the whole abandoned process. So maybe that's not the main problem, but I don't know. I assume it would also pertain to those things. They could they could say so the troopers I don't know who would pay in that instance. If the state police would pay or if it's on a highway. Or maybe the tow companies don't want to piss off the trooper so they can tow it anyway. They usually

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: usually do. I do know what you're thinking about because that that's been an issue in the past. That's that's a good question. Okay.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: I

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I think senator White brought up how many companies will toll for a $125.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: That's good.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: It is.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Because that's what we're running into, is it's not the little car that maybe you could flip. It's not like your Honda. It's when someone has an abandoned RV that's there for like a year that no one wants to tow.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I think we raised it to 125 a few years ago, if I remember correctly. It still need to be changed.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And it might be good if you came back with some information about how many companies are towing, but I think give us some idea. I've are less towers than before. Yeah. Personally, I I I don't wanna spend huge amount of

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: time with us. But I

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: What's the birthday? But if I'm changing this, is the hundred and twenty five enough first thing that goes out? As someone that owns an old farm, I opened the gate after the cattle went out in the fall and we sold the cattle in the October. The guy pulled in with what looked like kind of an old junk Subaru, and it sat there for months. And I'm like, it turns out, because I I found the guy that he lost his keys in the pasture and he had been out deer hunting, but it sat there for a month. And I thought what they've done is they had abandoned the carp and left me to take care of it. And so this is not just on state land and state any of Right. Yep. And I so I am interested in it because I think the whole of abandoned vehicles, garbage, all of that stuff is becoming more and more difficult for people to handle because people that economically can't afford to get rid of stuff, and when they can't, they dump it wherever they can find. And for some of those people, it's no fault of their own because they can't afford to figure out in the struggle. But I am interested in how we 01/2025 doesn't sound like enough.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yeah, I would agree. I'm not day and age for tone.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: If we're changing this, I'm kinda like, if I change it and nobody's gonna do that for a hundred and twenty five, what am I doing?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Mhmm. Yep. We'll we'll get some numbers on the towing and and reach out to the VSP as well on that what they're seeing on the van vehicle front. Section 14, this was just technical correction on doing some renumbering. 15 was matching language that we had in a different section, and just this section got missed as well. Stokes? Technical? Yes. So we have it on our side that's technical. Believe Damian concurred with that. Yes.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: One means a period of thirty days, Pat. We've confirmed that.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Well, that.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: I don't know if that's

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Section 13, I know we mentioned 16. Yes, it was 16. Was that? Section 16? Yeah.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: She's the head of the CS. Yeah, sorry.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Had a quick question. Referenced J. G. Power values. Why is J. Power not code? There's some other there are other entities that do values. We just we just make a decision to apply?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: It was it used to be the NADA, which got bought up by J. D. Power. So that's where the correction to J. D. Power was as resolved then merging. I can dig back and get some clarification on why it started out as NADA and not something else. But aren't there other ones

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: that do values for the blue? Yeah. Think

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: is

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Blue

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: out there and I'm sure there's some

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: other ones. I can get some clarification on.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: I didn't know if we're giving preferential treatment to one company for a reason, or just because of the historic preference?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I can get the history on that.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Coming up with the bag is not uncontroversial.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: 16, so let's talk about max tax, and this is clarifying the unloaded weight and not registered weight. We've seen some instances where the registered weight is above the 10,099 pounds, and then upon the second year, they are calling to have the registration rolled back to the proper weight, so we are just clarifying that when you're coming out of the gate, it's the unloaded weight of the vehicle so that we don't have any

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: issues on this. Has there been any communication between DMV and auto dealers about this? Because I just ran into a constituent issue with they automatically registered his truck at for 11,500 pickup. Yes. And he got a what is it? A $120 or so to register it to the wall. Wait a minute here. And so, you know Yep. We

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: when this came up, we said clarifying language back in December, Bolton, that January 1, we're gonna follow the the shipping weight or the unloaded weight at registration. I guess I'm around the dealers. I I know I think that's the one we spoke about on that Yep.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Said it before.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Yeah. Yeah.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: So they didn't

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: so I'm guessing the dealer didn't get the memo or wasn't paying attention. He just put down a number, and we fixed it.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: But It got fixed. I'm not sure that It got fixed. Yeah. Reason it got there, but it got fixed. Okay. I just I don't wanna go through

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: that again. It was a little messy for all.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: And and I will say on the on the EV side, this is where we see a lot of calls on that year two on our call center. There are people calling saying, why is our registration so high? And then we're we're rolling it back to the correct weight. So, like, a Ford Maverick, I don't think she'd

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: fall under the 10,900 pound. But the bigger trucks are still registered by their past due to later, don't know what we talked about. Yeah. The pantry. So at what point is it by the shipping weight and what point is it by their

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: spoke of that loadably? So it'd be your initial out of gate of ten nine ten thousand nine nine would be your your max x on that, and then your registration weight on that. I'm looking at Jordan. Is it

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: at once you get over the ten ninety nine pounds, is it then going to your loaded weight, or is it also still on the shipping?

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Loaded. So no. No. Okay. So the shipping weight of 10,099 pounds, below that the vehicle is charged 6% tax on the purchase price of the vehicle. Once you get above 10,099, that's when it falls into the max tax category, and it's charged $4,400 in tax.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Regardless of its capacity. Correct. So when do we care about what its

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: loading capacity? That's for the registration fees.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: So if you wanted oh, this is tax. I'm getting registration under tax. Okay. Thanks.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: K.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Let's see. Section 17, again, as I mentioned last week, this is from VAST. They're seeing people not wanting to register their home bills and chance getting a fine because the fine is less than what they would spend on the TMA, or Trail Maintenance agreement fee, or subsequent charges. So this is from VAST, these are the numbers they propose. We concur with our finalists.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: And we do have VAST over there.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Well, I have someone else, but I'll get them. Yeah,

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: we need to get to hear from them. And it would be nice to know how many there are registered, you know, you get a picture from them. Yeah. Yeah. I just met somebody, you know, and and say, you you know, with fuel things going, could we raise the fees on snow? Oh my. To make up the difference with the gas tax. It's like, I don't think there's enough snowmobiles to do that.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: They must be having a good year this year.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: They must be. Yeah.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Also, yeah, section 18. This is a proposal from the agency that would, a emergency situation, allow non CDL drivers to operate state or municipal vehicles that would normally require a CDL under under the umbrella of that emergency period. This could be a protracted snow or ice event where, you know, you had drivers in the seat for sixteen, twenty hours. I would say that's more dangerous than someone that's come up to a CDL train portion right now. Same with towns. If there's flight emergencies, if they have personnel that's knowledgeable and able to sit and see, if they're on their way to get into a CDL or maybe had one and expired, these are people that would normally know their way around a truck anyways. But allow them to operate that vehicle during the period of that set emergency.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Go ahead. Is that just an employee of the agency or the municipality?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Yes. Off the street who Nope. It'd be employee of the same municipality. So more questions on that. Section 19, this is allowing us to charge a one year fee for non domicile commercial motor vehicle licenses, and this is to match If someone comes in and their legal status is or visas for a one year period, we don't want part of two. It's and if it's one, it allows us to charge for just one year.

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: So can I back up a little bit?

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Back to section 18? Okay. I'm sorry. If I'm reading this right, the the employee of the, let's say, the agency who doesn't have a CDL most likely won't have a medical card either.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: AOT or VTrans has a waiver for the employees not to have They

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Yep. But municipalities, do they also?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Sure.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: I mean, all people are hit or miss. Yeah. It might be hit or miss. I I can get the exact on that. And that that was just us just because I I had a medical garden without a CDL to operate creditors because it was going across day lines. Yeah. So I that was decision point. We're happy to talk around that if, you know, miss Valleys, if that's more of a headache that get some employees might not have that, but it was kind of our our thought of kind of meeting at the middle of that. Yeah. I got it.

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Maybe we could have it somebody from a municipality and just ask them if they if their employees have a medical records. Mhmm. And who has Or do they have a waiver?

[Sen. Andrew Perchlik (Member)]: Yeah. Who has the ability to grant an exemption to the medical?

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: They find out for you.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: So would you wanna go directly to the town, or should we ask the league to

[Sen. Patrick "Pat" Brennan (Member)]: Probably the league. They cover more towns at least. Yep.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Could you pass this language to the league and ask them if they had some towns that had a reaction?

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Section. 18.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: I will bring up to you what I talked to you in the hall. There is some concern still about the titling of vehicles that company's been built in. We've booked it up, we I think we'll need an update in this committee because I we know that they still aren't titled. We I think if it passed some language from their lobbyist and that mimics what California is doing. And I think Megan has that language. So if you haven't seen it, she has it, and we'll look for that. And I'm gonna ask Megan to share that language with the rest of the committee, so we will wanna talk about that. And then we will have a number of other issues that are up on the wall. There's one about flotation devices and that there's some interest in, and it'll look for reaction from you. And she talks.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: And so if I'm the person pushing all this stuff in the DMV, it's built

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Well, the last two sheets, the the one about I I think we're all interested in the one about the car company that has four cars that are quite expensive that they haven't been able to title. But apparently, if they were in California, they could. So we're

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Definitely. Then I've got a cold water flotation device, which is a little outside of the purview of DMV, but my understanding is house transportation. Looked at it last year, thought it was gonna go on the DMV miscellaneous bill, so it'd be nice to send it over to them. Essentially, it means that you have to wear a flotation device during the winter as well if you're on a boat. And we'll hear from the YMCA, by the way, the children's YMCA swimming group because drownings are one of the highest rates of death among children in Vermont. It's a little slightly outside the purview of DMV, but boats and hopefully you're supportive of it. Then we've got the key truck folks. I've had a few constituents reach out to me who have described kind of a convoluted process of going to Burlington, going to Montpelier, going to Springfield and back again to try to get their vehicles registered. Our and so Dania just drafted some language to try to clarify that. And I appreciate your exchange with the house committee chair of transportation on seems like it's not a deliberate denial of the key truck No.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Absolutely not.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: So misalignment of what we require. And then I know inspections and moving to every other new inspections was a big topic that we were hoping to discuss.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: Yeah. Yes, we are going to talk about, but that might be too big an issue for us to deal with specifically in this bill. But we definitely will want to talk a lot talk to about testing.

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: Can I just ask on the flotation device? Is that something you maybe Coast Guard and state police since they have

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yes. We actually are hoping to have the state police folks come in and testify on it. They're like, you're like a marine. Well, I can

[Vermont DMV Commissioner (name not confirmed)]: A wardens. Yeah. Right.

[Sen. Rebecca "Becca" White (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Megan and I just sent her the person who were asking, it's a person named Al who is in the who who Al Johnson, who's the voting law administrator with the Vermont State Police Marine Division. Yes.

[Sen. Richard Westman (Chair)]: That is to say, you know, that we will be getting paid to do up to the inspections, you should be ready to talk about that. Then my my vision around that is that we would have to have hearings everything on that item specifically, and given the fact that we are time limited on how to deal with this, that may have to stand alone, you should be ready to talk about every other ear inspections. Yep. Thank you. Okay. Well, thank you all. And we did have Logan scheduled, but I I think he's not disappointed that we use all of his time. So I think we might switch to the two of you. You want a very quick break. Jeffrey. I have a request to take a quick break, and I totally understand that. Let's take five minutes.