Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: This

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: is Senate Transportation. It's Friday, January 23. We're with the Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee on Lake Champlain's future. We have, I have a list of five people, and I'm not sure who's first. Why don't you take the chair and you should each give us your name and only background before you dive into your testing.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Perfect. Good morning. I'm Karina Daley. I'm the chair of the CAC. And I act we're expecting one more in person, Bob Fisher. So, hopefully, he will be arriving soon. And then the rest are online, so I'll let them introduce themselves. And then I can give sort of a broad overview, and, then I'll pass it over to other folks to dive deeper into some of our issues. Why don't we start with Brett?

[Breck (Breck) Bowden, Member, Vermont CAC; retired UVM professor and former Lake Champlain Sea Grant director]: Corinna. Do you want to introduce what the CAC is and the action plan?

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Chair Westman was hoping to have everyone introduce themselves and just their name and who they represent.

[Breck (Breck) Bowden, Member, Vermont CAC; retired UVM professor and former Lake Champlain Sea Grant director]: Got it. It's fine. My name is is Breck Bowden, and I'm a retired professor, from the, University of Vermont in watershed science and planning. I was the director of the Lake Champlain Sea Grant, was a NOAA funded program, is a NOAA funded program focused on improving the health and environment and economy of Lake Champlain. I'm a member of the Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee from Burlington. Sorry that I can't be with you in person today.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Perfectly fine that you're on the screen. Next.

[Lori Fisher, Member, Vermont CAC; recently retired Executive Director, Lake Champlain Committee]: Good morning, everyone. I'm Lori Fisher. I'm a Citizens Advisory Committee member from Williston and the recently retired executive director of the Lake Champlain Committee, the organization dedicated to lake protection and stewardship. Thank

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: you.

[Andrew Milliken, Member, Vermont CAC; retired U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service]: Yep. Good morning. This is Andrew Milliken. I I also sorry not to be there with you in person. I am a Citizens Advisory Committee member from Charlotte, Vermont, and, also recently retired, in my case, from a over thirty year career with the US Fish and Wildlife Service working on ecosystems, habitats, and species throughout nationally, regionally, and in the Lake Champlain region.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Thank you.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: And I'm, Fisher. I'm from Barry. I'm a longtime member of the Citizens Advisory Committee. I am the Water Quality Superintendent for the City Of South Burlington, and I was the 2023 Illinois Water Environment Association President.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Perfect. Thank you, Hal, for coming.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Thank you for having us. So with that, I'll dive a little bit deeper and just give you guys an overview of who we are.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: There other questions? Oh, okay.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Oh, Mary.

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: Westman on it.

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: Yes. Know. Could you introduce yourself?

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Mary, would you inter

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: I think she's muted. I'm done.

[Mary, Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) staff supporting the CAC]: I'm I work at Department of Environmental Conservation and I provide some staff support to the CAC.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: It's nice to see you there. I was instructed to ask you by the staff person in the appropriations committee, what's your most embarrassing moment with your father? So

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: far. So far.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: And you don't have to answer that if you don't want to.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: But

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: but it's it's great to see

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: you. Yeah.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: I I picture of it.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: It's great to see you. Thank you all for coming.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Yeah. And I should say that Mary is an integral part of the CAC. She has helped behind the scenes in scheduling. She helps prepare our action plan. She organizes our meetings. So, help, we're grateful for DEC for sharing her capacity with us.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: We think it's great that you're here.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: I'm happy to

[Mary, Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) staff supporting the CAC]: be here and see what goes on in the Transportation Committee. I know you guys get up to a lot of mischiefs.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Thank you.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Well, thank you, Senate Chair Westman and Vice Chair, Senator White, and committee members for having us today. We really appreciate you taking the time. While it may feel a little bit disconnected how transportation connects to our action plan, I think there's a lot of connection. So we appreciate you taking that time. So big picture, we're a 14 member Citizens Advisory Committee of Lake Champlain's future. There are 10 citizens represented from a diverse spectrum, and really we try and have a broad representation across the watershed. And I I mean, think of Lake Champlain, and I know not all of you reside in the Lake Champlain Basin, but it does comprise more than 50% of the state. So it's the largest watershed in the state, and I think many of the issues that are facing Lake Champlain are reflective in other parts of the state as well and other watersheds. So as you listen, I think it it does have a lot of overlap. In addition to our 10 citizen members, we have four legislative representatives, two from the senate and two from the house, who support our work, and we are all united in that we share a vision for a clean, healthy Late Champlain. Focus on we have a lot throughout the year. We have meetings where monthly meetings where we bring in experts on different issues facing Lake Champlain. And so our job is to collect data and share it with the public. So really being a liaison between issues we get facing like Champlain and the public to share information. And that information includes focusing on wildlife issues, clean water issues, and human connected issues facing the lake. And then ultimately, our charge is to prepare an action plan every year and present it to the General Assembly, And so that's what we're here to do today. And I will say that our action plan, you know, the issues aren't changing every year. They continue. So, we're our action plan doesn't change dramatically every year. It's always you know, we always look at it with a fresh eye and think about fresh perspective. But a lot of these issues have been ongoing issues for the lake, and we continue to focus on them. So really working hard to think about that. And then just lastly, I will say that we have been around since before the Lake Champlain Basin program. So we're actually we were we existed starting in 1989. So we're, like, fairly old and have a strong history of just citizen involvement coming together around the lake and around issues for the lake. We also work with the New York and Quebec CACs, so there are two other CACs because we share the watershed with them on issues relevant to the lake, so it's really a partnership. With that, I wanted to just focus on our major priorities in the action plan and this Venn diagram on the top. You can see that we're, as I said, we're coming together around a healthy link focused on biodiversity, healthy ecosystems, restoration, climate resilience, and clean water. And I will pass it over to Breck Bowden to dive into the one issue. We'll talk about flood resilience and drought, and then we'll just go around and everyone can share a little bit about that. Happy to take questions at the end or as we go, whatever works best for you.

[Breck (Breck) Bowden, Member, Vermont CAC; retired UVM professor and former Lake Champlain Sea Grant director]: Thanks, Karina. Again, my name is Brett Bowden, a member of the committee, and I'd like to guide you through our recommendations for the advanced flood mitigation and climate resilience, the first of our four top priorities. You can find these starting at the bottom of page two on our brief. First, it's important to note that as large as Lake Champlain is, the land area that drains into it, its watershed, is much larger, unusually so, in fact. Does any activities on land eventually affect Lake Champlain? This can be a challenge, and it can be an opportunity. Over history, our activities on land have severely stressed the lake. Compounding these challenges, more recent climate change is multiplying the stresses on the lake. In the last fifteen years, the Lake Champlain Basin has been impacted by all 25 declared FEMA disaster events. In fact, during that time period, Vermont experienced the seventh highest number of disasters in the country. This includes the multiple floods that we faced in 2023 and 2024. And more recently, this year, the basin experienced severe drought and record setting low lake levels. As the frequency and severity of extreme events increases, swift action and investments are needed to ensure our communities, environment, and economy are more resilient to climate change impacts. While these are daunting challenges, management of our land activities and landscape characteristics also present important opportunities. Paraphrasing our action plan slightly, we suggest five high level opportunities in this priority area. First, restore and conserve headwaters, river corridors, flood plains, wetlands, soils, and riparian buffers. Second, invest in our agency staff and empower them to work across agencies and outside organizations. Third, support funding for research and implementation that will restore natural stream processes that will keep Lake Champlain healthy. Fourth, invest in sustainable agriculture, forests, and working lands initiatives that reduce phosphorus runoff to our waters. And finally, invest in public and private infrastructure to meet modern standards and withstand future flooding. Let me focus on just two of these opportunities that relate to bills that might come to your committee. First, nature based solutions are cost effective measures that mitigate the effects of climate change. Examples include efforts to right size culverts and bridges, as well as dam removal to restore aquatic organism passage, reduce erosion and nutrient loading, and increase flood resilience and public safety. These are often complex projects that require substantial funding and collaboration among state agencies, local organizations, and communities. Investments in these approaches would help to address the first three opportunities that we identify in this priority area. Second, we note that there are currently 17 bills that have been introduced in this legislative session that address the impacts of flooding either directly or indirectly. In doing so, these bills would also affect Lake Champlain either directly or indirectly. For example, H four sixty seven would require the agency of transportation to help municipalities upgrade infrastructure, improve water, improve stormwater management, develop a system to track flood response equipment across the state, and procure equipment to remove debris that would otherwise get into rivers and eventually Lake Champlain. We think that many of these requirements make sense and ask you to support H. 67 and other bills that might affect Lake Champlain. Doing so would address the last of our five opportunities in this priority area. Finally, our committee strongly endorses Flood Safety Act, Act 121, which mandates DTRANS to institutionalize climate resilience, making it a core part of planning, programming, and project selection. More broadly, Vermont's resilience implementation strategy makes numerous recommendations that affects how VTrans operate. The strategy encourages VTrans to move beyond a focus on post disaster repair and to prioritize planning and implementation that will protect the transportation network from weather disasters and build for long term sustainable and efficient movement of people and goods. Any bills that advance these strategies would also help to protect Lake Champlain. Thank you for your attention to this priority in our plan, and I'll now pass the floor over to Bob Fisher, who will address our water contaminants priorities.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Thank you. I'm Bob Fisher from Berry, Water Quality Superintendent for South Burlington. First of all, I'll quickly mention that the we were formed the trimerabbit by federal and actually international law with Quebec and and New York. Also, just had not heard about four fifty seven till then, and I thought I'd just bring this up because it's maybe relevant. I'm on the steering committee for WARN, w a r n. It's FEMA program, and we have a list of equipment that's run by Vermont World Water and and, Vermont DEC. And, each one is run by each state. In New Hampshire, it also includes Public Works, but here it all includes water and wastewater operators. But there already is a database of pumps, equipment, and we've been together for, like, fifteen, twenty years. Just rifting on that because I happen to hear that. Good. The so I'm here to speak about contaminants, especially road salt that may not be very pertinent to this committee. Sounds good. Your own bill. Yeah. Yes. And all I can say is we seem to be following the same trajectory as phosphorus, which I'm, you know, more familiar with, the water quality operator. Have five impacted streams, you know, theoretically, the EPA will come down with the TMDL eventually. I was a federal fishery biologist, and it is starting to impact the macroinvertebrates. I'm also a twenty six year ski team coach at Killington. I just landed another Olympian, Olympic Jazz Show, so I drive down one zero seven for Barrie, including the year when there was no one zero seven. It took me longer to get there during our evening. So I understand Rolling Salt is kind of a little valuable. Nonetheless, we're asking to somewhat model the New Hampshire program, where they have, you know, because a lot of it is pride and salt, and there's liability if you want them all, somebody breaks their leg, the state takes on some of that liability if you do the training and whatnot, and pass, you know, all the steps for that. Another thing would be but regardless, it seems to be following the same track as, you know, the feds will eventually come down and start to do things. So people better we did things. And it's like I see, it's the same as phosphorus too. You could stop doing all salt right now, and it's, you know, we've we're pretty salty. Nonetheless, I see the value of it. My first house, I did live out once for twelve years, was in Lake Tahoe, and I will say we got four to 500 inches at my house on average, and they use way less salt. You saw a car going by with rust all over, and you said, New York plates. Because I had a car with New York plates too, because I a rust all over it. Anyway, besides that, quickly, PFAS is another big one. For us, we manufacture we use our biosolids for manufacture. We're using the V Trans very effectively in a 5% mix. I have found in my sixteen plus years on the CAC, we are very, you know, orientated on water quality, and we still are. Air quality seems to be having an impact with all the work we've done when the river turns chocolate and all the, you know, I put out basically drinking water for my two wastewater facilities. So, you know, in my opinion, it's still a good use of it. We use it in a 5% mix for V TRANS along roads. They use it for park and rides. They use it for other airports, places where people aren't gonna be. They test every thousand yards. It does not come over the background limits. I can landfill it if need be, but the landfill has very little capacity. Additionally, it'll triple my cost, which is not as big a concern. It'll be another 300,000 a year. We have to start Burlington. We could we could do that. But nonetheless, increasing greenhouse gases would be a mess. I'm going five miles down the road, CDCI, where they mix together. I'll have to haul it all the way to Coventry or Ohio or somewhere. They'll have to import the phosphorus by train. So that's basically where I'm at. Wow. And who's mixing the BioCell? Right now, I I think ECI is doing a lot of it. It's also ECN? Yeah. Engineer's construction. They're they're controlling it. And they're basically in a 5% mix with, another 5% or something. And they can buy manufacture pots, soil, lunches, governor Scott did with, he has some sitting in

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: his yard there. Right.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: But it's gotta go somewhere. Every average American male weighs about a hundred and eighty five pounds or produces one pound of poop a day. Women produce about the same, and just they're smaller in The United States. So that's three sixty five pounds for the average American male, or probably slightly above that. And That's a good

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: way frame it to the public.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: It's gotta go somewhere. It's gotta go.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: She did wastewater treatment.

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly saw the waste actually.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Right. So it's all related. And unfortunately, it's all kinda triage at this point. I mean, is no easy solution. It's all it's triaged, you know? Yeah. You understand.

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: Can I just ask, just let you know, I'm sure you're familiar with storm warning utilities? I'm in the East side of the state where we don't have the issues yet, but I want us to not have the issues by doing things right now. And just there's a lot of potential changes going on with the ability of towns to have storm water utilities. So just stay in touch with that and I can tell you more after if you like.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Sure. We have our own, we were the first one that has our own storm water utility, South Burlington.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: I know. Talk to your people.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Yes. Yeah. We actually have an opening for storm water superintendent. Oh. Yeah. But, I better go because I'm running out short on time. Thank you. And next up will be?

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: I believe it is Andrew and then Laurie.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Muted. You're muted. That has to be in the lexicon.

[Andrew Milliken, Member, Vermont CAC; retired U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service]: Yeah. I I can go. I if you want aquatic invasive species next, then Laurie is doing that today.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Oh, apologies.

[Lori Fisher, Member, Vermont CAC; recently retired Executive Director, Lake Champlain Committee]: You too. So which one do you want to go?

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Sure, Laurie. Go ahead. Go ahead, Laurie.

[Lori Fisher, Member, Vermont CAC; recently retired Executive Director, Lake Champlain Committee]: Okay. Thank you. Chair Westman, vice chair White, and members of the committee, thank you for opportunity to testify about aquatic invasive species today on behalf of the Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee. My name is Laurie Fisher, and I'm a CAC member from Williston and the recently retired executive director of the Lake Champlain Committee. Aquatic invasive species or AIS are a significant threat to Lake Champlain and other Vermont waterways. They disrupt native species, degrade aquatic ecosystem integrity, impair recreation, lower water quality, and damage infrastructure and reduce property values. Once established, these species are extremely difficult and costly to manage, making prevention the most effective strategy. AIS are particularly problematic because of sheer traits that allow them to thrive at the expense of native species. They often outcompete native plants and animals for food and habitat, reproduce prolifically, grow rapidly, and tolerate a wide range of environmental conditions. These characteristics allow them to establish quickly, spread rapidly, and alter ecosystems in ways that are often irreversible. These species spread not only through natural movement, but primarily through human activity and other species acting as vectors. Recreational boating, trailers, and equipment can unintentionally transport invasive plants and animals from one water body to another. In addition, waterfowl, fish, and other wildlife can carry seeds, plant fragments, or small organisms between connected or nearby waterways. For this reason, AIS prevention is not only an environmental issue, but also transportation systems issue. Canals, locks, boat launches, and access points act as transportation corridors much like roads and bridges and require proactive management to prevent unintended consequences. Once aquatic invasive species become established, eradication is rarely possible. Long term management requires sustained investment, and this is why early detection, rapid response, and spread prevention are so critical. These efforts depend on adequate staffing, monitoring, and public education as well as visible and well supported prevention infrastructure at access points. Lake Champlain currently has 51 documented aquatic invasive species and remains vulnerable to additional introductions because of its connections to larger systems. By comparison, the Hudson River has 122 documented AIS, and the Great Lakes have a 184. Over 60% of the invasive species in Lake Champlain with a known origin entered via canals, primarily through the Champlain Canal at the lake's southern end. This canal directly connects the Hudson River to Lake Champlain, and it served as a pathway for species such as zebra mussel, water chestnut, and Eurasian watermilfoil. The invasive round goby provides a clear example of how risks play out in real time. Native to Eurasia, round goby was introduced to the Great Lakes through ballast water from international shipping, spread through the Erie Canal and Mohawk River into the Hudson River system. In June 2024, environmental DNA found round goby was detected above Lock C 12 in the Champlain Canal, signaling that the species is approaching Lake Champlain. To put this in context, the Champlain Canal connects the Hudson River to Lake Champlain through Lock C 1 through C 12 with Lock C 12 at Whitehall as the final lock before the lake. And each lock is a potential pathway for invasive species because it concentrates water, boats, and organisms in one location. Boats moving through a lock can transport, you know, invasives from one water body to the next. And the lock itself is it it transfers water and potentially these species between connected rivers, canals, and lakes. The lower locks are closest to the Hudson River and often the first points of entry for new species, while the upper locks are the last line of defense for Lake Champlain. Again, making early detection, inspection, and prevention measures at each lot critical to protecting the lake as well as waterways across Vermont. Vermont should increase investment in consistent staffing and stable funding for AIS programs, including public outreach, monitoring, boat launch stewards, and boat wash stations to complement cooperative work underway in New York and Quebec. We'll ask the legislature to consider four specific actions. One, establish a dedicated funding source such as a mandatory boat registration decal for motorized and non motorized watercraft modeled after Maine's successful AIS program, which has generated stable funding for inspections, education, and outreach. Two, implement a mandatory water inspection and certification program, watercraft inspection and certification program. Three, invest in high visibility inspection and cleaning stations at key access points. Senate transportation could encourage VTrans to partner with Vermont DEC and Vermont Vermont Fish and Wildlife Department in the Lake Champlain Basin program to strategically locate hot water decontamination stations on roadsides throughout the state. And four, strengthen coordination and advocacy with New York and Quebec, particularly around canal management to protect against AIS entry into Lake Champlain. Protection from aquatic invasive species requires a dual approach, preventing new species from entering while actively managing those already established to limit their spread and ecological impact. By investing in early detection, monitoring, rapid response, and public edification, Vermont can reduce long term costs, protect recreational access, and preserve ecosystem health. And these efforts safeguard not only Lake Champlain, but also all of Vermont's waterways, ensuring that lakes and rivers remain healthy, resilient, and enjoyable. Thank you so much.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Thank you.

[Lori Fisher, Member, Vermont CAC; recently retired Executive Director, Lake Champlain Committee]: I'll pass the baton to Andrew now.

[Andrew Milliken, Member, Vermont CAC; retired U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service]: Well, thank you, Laurie, and thank you to the members of the Senate Transportation Committee for this opportunity to meet with you. Again, I am Andrew Milliken, a member of the Citizens Advisory Committee from Lake Champlain from Charlotte. And I'm gonna address the the final area we wanted to, highlight with you today and

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: that relate

[Andrew Milliken, Member, Vermont CAC; retired U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service]: to the real need for increased and equitable public access to Lake Champlain in Vermont. And that equitability is both in terms of users and geography. And just a little background or context, in 2023, outdoor recreation accounted for about $2,100,000,000 in Vermont's value added gross domestic gross domestic product or GDP. And, the contribution of Vermont's outdoor recreation to the state's GDP increased from about 3.7% in 2020 to April in 2023. This makes for, Vermont ranked second in the country for the contribution of outdoor recreation as a percentage of the state's total GDP, and, that's only behind the state of Hawaii. So that gives you a little context of the importance of continuing to support, a lot of aspects related to outdoor recreation, and in this case, access to Lake Champlain. And one of the things that is needed is increased access areas for, low impact activities like swimming and picnic picnicking and paddling, kayakers, etcetera. They are not always supported or allowed at the fish and wildlife boat launches. As you may know, the vast majority of funding for, public access areas comes through the, hunting and fishing fees that are collected by Vermont Fish and Wildlife and managed by the federal government. And, this then, of course, sort of biases that access towards fishing and hunting access. But it also is an increasing challenge as the amount of, license fees for hunting and fishing and trapping have started to decrease in the state, at a time when we actually need increased access to recreation. So we would ask, the legislature to consider working with state agencies, Fish and Wildlife and DEC, for a license, to complement revenue from hunting, fishing, and trapping licenses. And that new source of funding would include people like kayakers, bird watchers, and hikers, that would utilize these access areas and boat launches. The other key point is is geographic equity, and particularly wanted to note that there is no public access in the southern part of Lake Champlain. And so there's a real need to for providing access there, additional access in the southern part of the lake. And that could include the creation of a state park in the South Lake, noting that there is no state parks in this section of lake. And so again, main main points there are equitable access and access in the southern part of the lake as being high priorities that we ask the legislature to consider. Thank you.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Thank you. Do you want to wrap

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: up? Yes. And I

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: I say this is pretty good.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Summarized this, it's all pretty good.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: And I also passed around a state of the lake report, which is not something that we produce, but Lake Champlain Basin Program does. And it was brought up in a prior committee presentation. So that's another great reference as to just an update of what's going on in the lake. But really, in closing, we really appreciate your time and thank you for considering these issues. And let us know if you have more questions. Thank you very much for coming.

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: Thank you.

[Karina Daley, Chair, Vermont Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) on Lake Champlain]: Thanks for your evening.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Bye, Mary.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: We'll see you later. Oh, Burlington's always interested talking about something better. Perfect. Perfect.

[Andrew Milliken, Member, Vermont CAC; retired U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service]: Thank you.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Thank you very much.

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: Thank you.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Hundred forty nine of time to meet you all.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Thanks very much.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: At one point because he was the strong mother. And you let Bernie Just a little mistake. I actually The law. Twenty four years ago. New York? New York. I think they own at least a year. Most of them, they're under New York. Authority? Okay. Or yeah. Yeah. Which or the No. We can At Erie oh, I'm sorry. They're under the the the freeway is under the Erie the the Erie Canal Authority, which appears to have somewhat godlike

[Breck (Breck) Bowden, Member, Vermont CAC; retired UVM professor and former Lake Champlain Sea Grant director]: I write more today.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: So Because we tried to deal with them with Vermont DEC and New York DEC. The New York DEC said that under their regulations they really because they predate so many things, they really do have Okay. You can sort of just ask them.

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: So that'll be a long term project.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Yeah. Like, PEC, you can't just come down on them and say, you're gonna do this. Yeah. Because they have all sorts of Alright. Exempt things.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Thank you. Thank you. Are you there? No.

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: Are they all New York? Thank you. Good

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: morning.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Morning. Can

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: you hear me okay?

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: We can hear you, but we can't see you.

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: Okay. And I am having a really hard time hearing you folks. Hang on.

[Senator Wendy Harrison, Clerk, Senate Transportation Committee]: Well, we were all talking at once and sorry that was partly my fault. Can you hear us now?

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: I've got my volume turned all the way up and I can just barely hear you.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Well, I think you know what, we're looking for maybe ten minutes or so. How are we doing this winter? It was briefly mentioned in our joint hearing the other day that we might be running over budget. And I thought that given the winter we've got, give us an update.

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: All right. So the the secretary did mention that we're, way over on budget, and I I I think that was I think he got a couple numbers confused. At that time, we were running about 20,000 ton over from last year in Salt. Last year was a heavy winter, so I'm kind of using that as our judge. If I use a five year average, we've had three really light winters.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: What does 20 ton over mean?

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: What percent? Well, that number is really fluid. Right now, we're 14,000 tons over, And that's about $1,500,000 in salt. Now, I got our budget printed off. We we do a monthly graph on where we are. And our monthly graph was looking really good. We're six months into the fiscal year. We get our spending authority on the July 1. We've expended 40% of our budget as of December 31. Now, I need to take into account the salt sheds are partially empty. So this morning, what I did with math is I just pretended that we had to fill them up and pay for it. So if we fill them up tomorrow and then pay for it tomorrow, we'll be at 48% of our budget expended.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: And would you, where would you normally expect to be at this time?

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: We would like to be right where we are, right around 50%.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: So we're actually right on budget, it's good because when I heard that we were 25% over, and knowing that we've got the budget adjustment moving along, I, I wanted to make sure that we, but we sound pretty good.

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: We're we're good right now. Now the the catch is these numbers are so fluid. Yeah. Like, when I talked to Joe a couple weeks ago, we were 20,000 ton over, and then we got a little bit of a break. And this morning, we're 14,000 ton over. And if we could get, say, a little bit of a break for two weeks, we might be right back in line. And then if we have two weeks of, you know, the trucks are out every day, we're going to be even higher. So so we are, I have three sheets in front of me that we're tracking this. We track our salt on a weekly basis. We're on week 11 of a twenty five week cycle. That that comes out every single week on, for us, it's Wednesday. We also track our inventory every sick single week. Every shed gets measured, physically measured, so we stay on top of that. And then the complete holistic budget graph comes out on the thirty first, of each month or probably a few days after the end of the month. So we're on it. This is very indicative to when I testify that we testify that July to November when we get our spending authority. We're a little bit light on activities planning for a hard winter. And then if we have a hard winter, we're good. If we have an easy winter, April, May, and June, we get shovel ready projects moving. So today, I'm comfortable.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: So it looks to me like you by a week from today will be ready to wrap up the books for January, the second is a Monday, February 2. Do you think you could report into us with what the monthly totals are and where we are? Do you think you could send an update on your report to us then?

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: I am so sorry, chair. I I only heard about every third word. I I've exhausted everything I can on this computer to to make the sound come up, and it it's the only thing I could do is maybe log out and log on with a different computer.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: I I will email you a question.

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: Okay. And I will I will happily oblige with whatever you folks need.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Yeah. We'll email the question. Thanks, Ernie. Great attitude. Thank you.

[Ernie, Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTrans), Maintenance & Operations]: Sorry for the technical difficulty.

[Senator Richard Westman, Chair, Senate Transportation Committee]: Yeah. Well, we can get him off. We've, actually got twenty minutes before the next piece stops. So why

[Bob Fisher, Water Quality Superintendent, City of South Burlington; CAC member from Barre]: don't