Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: We're locked. Good morning. It is April 9 and we're in Senate Judiciary doing some budget presentations and we have department of the experienced sheriffs here to make their presentation. The floor is all yours.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good to be here. And I think the context is that you're looking for the response from the department regarding what the house sent over. And so looking at our three priorities, and we presented these way back in in January in appropriations and also in here briefly, we're really happy that our number one priority was sent over by the house and preliminary tea leaves from senate appropriations as well that sounds like it's been discussed there as well, and that's the elimination of our vacancy savings targets. These are targets set by the governor's budget office, and our number one priority to avoid any reduction of staff is to eliminate these vacancy savings because they are not vacancy savings in the true sense of the term. They are targets that we would have to meet in the year. And so firstly, the state's attorneys, roughly 331,000. For the victim advocates, roughly a 148,000. And for the sheriffs, about a 140,000, totaling roughly 620,000. We have very few vacancies in our department. If you look at the victim advocates, which is a separate budget for our department, although they're embedded in states of term, we almost never have vacancies in in victim advocate positions. And so if we have to have an $147,000 vacancy there, that's a position in an office in this past year in Windham County, actually, Mr. Chair, had to hold open the third victim advocate position in Windham County for what we needed to meet this year. So our hope is that we don't have to do this this year and we can have 26 victim advocates across the state. With the sheriffs, it's the transport program, so that'd be about a position there depending on pay in the transport program. And for the state's attorneys, it could, it would depend on the type of position, but you know, it would be a couple of DSAs or maybe three or four admins or legal assistance VAs if we had to do 331,000. So we're very happy with what the House did on the priority number one. Oh, I'm sorry, did you have a question?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: Yeah, I had a question about the victim's advocates. My understanding is that system is a pretty stressed system that really can't meet the need as it is. Is that a correct understanding?

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: I would say, yeah. And the focus on it, I think, out of this committee has been, for the last couple of years, really appreciated by our field because they have about 600 cases per victim advocate. And know, that makes sense in some regard. We have fewer victim advocates than we have deputy states attorneys. Deputy states attorneys have between three to 400 cases each, and so victim advocates have more cases assigned to them. And if you look at, you know, a triple homicide like the case we had in Roblin recently, there's about 30 victims that we're talking with because it's the whole family. So it's a huge hole on our victim advocates. And, you know, and and if we had our brothers, we know it's an incredibly tight budget here we would add to our victim advocate workforce. Certainly, it's an area that we think needs some attention, but at least we don't want to have any reduction in force. Okay. To your point, yes. The second priority that really has not been met yet by the any proposed budgets coming out of this building is two acute areas on our operating expenses. One is expert witnesses. So every year, we play a very dangerous game with our expert witness budget and particularly for mental health cases, wherever we just hope and pray that we have some other place in the budget that we can steal thousands of dollars from them to pay for expert witnesses. Pretty much every county, I think, well, counties has some homicide related case with a mental health expert aspects to where either the defense is going to allege an attempted identity defense or there's competency being litigated even prior to trial, which costs thousands and thousands of dollars. So we are looking for $50,000 extra over and above the government's right hand for our Infra Witness Fund and the other really acute area on the opposite side of the house for our transport program. The part because of the accountability dockets statewide in part because of the the absent accountability dockets, the ramp up of trials and court activity in person, we are going to likely exceed both line items for the transport again, the overtime budget and for extra work. So the two areas we are projecting that we will go over those line items in this fiscal year. And so looking for next fiscal year, we're looking to create an appropriate amount of space because every person that you're transporting in to and from court with a criminal case, they are presumed innocent, and we deserve to not have any delay in their getting to and from court. Those are two acute areas. Other areas of operating, those are the two priorities for us.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: Wouldn't it be less expensive not to plan for overtime, but to have another half hour transport deputies? So one of

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: the things is a little bit tension. So one area that we looked at is we're actually do not as a current director of sheriff operations, if you know anybody, so you're looking to have someone else we've been studying the subsidization, and we can put Senator Norris in the chair here, of the sheriffs to the state of Vermont because what the sheriffs do for our transport programs, they pay for salary and benefits, but we do not pay for cars, car insurance, we don't pay for And the so there would be some caution. We'd add a new position to the transport program, which we did add on this award. The local sheriff will be allocated, would have to outbid them with a car and all that sort of thing. So it could it's definitely cheaper on the operating side for our budgets, but I would wanna do a little bit of a check to say, what does it cost per share? Let's say they didn't have enough cars. I would wanna ask a share, what does it cost to put a state employee in a vehicle? But the other area where we've seen, and I know I've talked about here with Sheriff Anderson, is better scheduling from our courts. So really only in Windham County have we seen a real improvement in block scheduling for detainees. And this is another area where we've really begged the courts to try to encourage local judges to have detainee hearings out in between ten and two. It's also better for the detainee to know when they're going be seen as opposed to an eight hour wait in a Sally Port where they've had to be strip searched or not, They're not getting their meals that day the same way. Like it's really an area where we want to see improvement. And I think Judge Zona and Terry Coursons have been advocates of this as well, but ultimately the local judges and the presiding judges rule their domains with respect to scheduling. But any place publicly where I can say we need to do a better job for our detainees who should have court at a time certain, It means that the non detainees would have to take off that eight to 10 block and sort of two to 04:30 block sometimes. The one to 02:00 time can be tough because there's the emergencies that come in, people held during the night and during the day. But those two areas could, in addition to more staff, more overtime, block scheduling and a real understanding about what it costs a local sheriff to output. We're working on that truly. I think it's been harder than we expected to kind of get the answer, but looking for kind of an average number, maybe that we can adjust for inflation each year. Here's how much it costs a local sheriff to output the state employee that we allocate.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: I appreciate that there would be potentially the sort of startup cost, but presumably that's a one time cost as opposed to a year over year time and a half overtime cost.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Right, I mean, still have to do the insurance and some of the stuff that they have to do. We can dig into that, I think, and even, I think it'd be a great topic for, know, in general, how sheriffs interplay with state equity. You know, I think it's a great area for for studying. The, you know, the overtime budget, one of the things that I feel most frustrated because it's our state budget, it's our general fund, is we are trying to get our arms around what we can do differently to discourage practices that result in overtime, and not for the bad reasons, but for the, oh, okay, there's a hearing that's going the fifth day of trial until 05:00. Okay. No one but a status conference scheduled at 04:15 in the afternoon, where you know a person's got 15 cases, that's gonna result in a trip back up to Newport at 07:00 at night. That's where both our department needs to advocate for the courts to do a better job, but also the courts to these types of events for detainees at time periods that won't run into overtime. Because it's costing all time, whether you're a taxpayer in Canaan or a taxpayer in Burlington, you're paying for overtime for our transport program. And I don't want to be in a position where I was recently, in Franklin, where I was attempting to convince the courts that a criminal hearing was more important than a civil hearing, and I was brought up to talk to the judge in person about that, because that's their fault. They're the branch of government that makes those decisions. I want to encourage and advocate for better practices. We do have a new system that we're rolling out with the courts in concert administrative order 18, the open air transport deputies being over scheduled. We request relief from judge zone a, and then the courts identify the most important hearing. So we are making that decision, and we're just rolling out training on Friday to all of our sheriffs. But it won't help a ton. It will help when there hasn't been a way to resolve the issues below where I'm not trying to police it.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: Yeah. No. I appreciate that. And I appreciate that you're trying to decrease overtime because overtime is expensive. But if we are understaffing the system, there's going to be overtime that is more expensive than properly staffing the system.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Yes, that's true. Definitely. And the other thing is our overtime budget is actually Pac Man eating the rest of our budget to hire new staff. So we have a couple vacancies, three vacancies actually, where we are.

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: And Lauren, if you want to So just

[Lauren Clements, Director of Operations and Legislative Relations, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: I'm Lauren Clements, Director of Operations and Lighting Relations. So there are some nuances with transport over time in that it's not this you know, with with a transport, you have two deputies that have to do that full transport. Bringing if in any county, there is another transport deputy brought in, it doesn't necessarily relieve the overtime specific to those two transport deputies because they're still required to do that full day transport. That other transport deputy may be available for another transport, which would shift the court schedule some, but there's still two deputies required for a full day. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: I certainly understand you're never going to get overtime to zero, I imagine properly staffing whatever system, whether it's transport deputy, state attorneys, court administrators, it's going to reduce overtime.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Yes. Yeah, I think it's a two prong attack. We have to like, just adding overtime is not gonna help the issue. Just adding more block scheduling. It's gotta be kind of this four prong attack of better scheduling, more capacity, and overtime budget. And I will say that the governor's $500,000 in this current year for accountability dockets, if we start getting into overtime trouble the rest of this fiscal year, I've already told the governor's office it's accountability related. If we move to Windham, for example, when women have to be transported from to South Burlington to Windham, we will definitely be asking for dollars out of that pot to help with overtime. But we'll see how that turns out. Hopefully that we have more accountability documents. And then the third area has not been addressed yet by the House budget. And I want to just headline this by saying there are operational costs whenever, as we were just talking about, whenever we add new staff, but our kind of on the wall request from last year was to add more victim advocates, more legal assistants, more secretaries to our workforce to assist with moving cases through the system more quickly and more justly. And so those costs are identified in the third paragraph of our priorities. But we know as they taught you for the appropriations committee and for this building and that there not new positions being handed out for the most part in the House budget.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Of the three listed categories, which are you able to list those in priority?

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Oh, you're asking to prioritize my priorities. You know, in my opinion, the victim advocates have incredibly high amounts of cases right now and accountability documents are increasing the turnaround. I would say adding to our victim advocate workforce could definitely help relieve some stress in our offices. And then legal assistance, in my opinion I'm your time, these guys. Might be, if I have to identify one, might be an area to explore because they can do a different thing. Can do an array of that type of mistake. It could actually help with significant notice work. They could help with administrative work. They can help with preparing a case for trial. And, you know, it's hard to prioritize those three because they're already so acute in those areas. Our administrative workforce, if you had to break it down by cases pending, that's about 800 cases per administrative professional in our department. So it's a bit of a lose lose to prioritize those three, but certainly our administrative and victim advocate workforce are both areas where we can use assistance and potentially, know, state's attorneys in really busy counties right now, I think are just doing triage with some of the staffing because it's acute right now. Would

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: it be rather than prioritizing an area, would it be better if we were looking at this to maybe do two, one and one? Like slightly less, but in all the areas? Yeah. Okay.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Yes, I would say that would be very well, two, one and one would be very helpful.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: Okay. My other question is well actually I have two, but would adding to these areas help decrease the backlog?

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Yeah, so in my opinion, both is overtime for the transport program and additional staffing would help with our backlog, but also staying ahead of what I would call a wave effect. So in Chittenden County, you moved a huge amount of basis, a very successful four month period announced the state's attorney George is handling the accountability doc on Fridays. But I think to encourage these accountability programs not just happening for three months, but that really sustaining better practices, you would want to build in more capacity for quicker turnaround. Victim advocate notices to victims, you know, using an example that's probably tired, but I'll use it anyway. If someone having a retail theft in Downtown Burlington on Church Street, three or four stores, having the same defendant. So So we have to do victim notices to all of those stores if there was any person to person behavior from a customer that's another victim. So those are all individual notes that we have to get out. The defendant in that case would need all the video, all of the evidence of discovery, and if it's a misdemeanor retail theft, that's a lot of turnaround for So nonviolent having more capacity in our department to turn around that very important required administrative work is gonna be essential to moving. But I think backlog, unfortunately, I'm thinking lower level, non ballot cases, and those cases stuff the same requirements for paperwork. It will definitely help with our backlog, particularly in high volume towns like Chittenden, Windham, Franklin, Washington. You know, are high volume locations in Madison's Law. So it sounds like

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: it will help with the backlog and also potentially public safety giving that quick turnaround. Now this was a question you may not be able to answer, but is there any way for you to monetize the cost of the backlog? Because I imagine that backlog costs us more money than moving a case quickly through the system, more time to take, more So I'm wondering if there's any way you can think of to sort of get a sense of what the additional cost to the system is because of the backlog.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Yeah, so we've seen in Chittenden, and this is a, not a cough, it's impact that we're seeing with time. Time is the most important thing in our courts. State's Attorney George resolved more cases that were violent from 2022 to 2025 in the last year because she had more time to do so because of that focus on reducing the backlog and the other cases coming up. So it frees up our most acute violent case time in courts if we're moving more of our low level nonviolent offenses. And so it's, we know we get more time and we clear backlog spaces. And I want to say that, Senator Norris' advocacy in the last couple of years as well as appropriations, we've maintained our workforce. So not having any reduction of workforce has been essential to do what we've done thus far. If we want to do more then a ramp up needs to happen. Otherwise, we'll blow it along. We've moved 5,000 cases in the last three years from where we were. That's fantastic. We're slowing our rate now. So we cleared less cases in the last year than we did in the prior two years. That rate has slowed. The backlog has a cost to defendants, has a cost to victims waiting. And if it's a case that's going to require an expert witness, I think I've been clear with the committee before, we don't have a lot of money for nonviolent offenses to be litigated with our mental health system. And so we are already triaging to the most violent cases with our operating expenses. So it saves the state money when we're moving more cases regardless, and because the general fund is paying for all of our resources. It's not like we can say it saves Chittenden County this or Bennet County County that. That.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: I figured it might be difficult to sort of monetize that savings, which logically it seems like a case that pens longer would cost more. Particularly for detainees. Yes. I appreciate that it is a tough budget year, but all of these seems like seem to me like they're actually investments that will save money over time. And I think if we're going to think forward beyond this budget year, we should be thinking about investments that will pay for themselves.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: I don't plan on going anywhere, you'll see me back here, if that makes sense. Yeah, so those are, I just wanted to focus on the priorities. You have loads of data from us. You have 150 page appropriations presentation from us, which Senator Norris has had to stay away for a couple of times now, but anything that you need from us, Mr. Chair, we're happy to answer any questions. Thank you.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: And I'll definitely say this list of the programs on one page is very helpful. And so thank you. We're working

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: on our one pagers. Thank you.

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: Any questions? I do have. They're not money related, obviously. How many positions do you have in crime victims advocates? 26. 26, with point five in place now, so you're asking the And how many state paid positions have been allocated?

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: In the How many are approved? Oh, in our department right now. I think we have up, so if you look at the whole department, including the transport program, we have 198 departmental positions. Broken down, state of aid transport deputy. Oh, they're state paid transport deputy, yes. We have 25. Now one of them, through the BAA, we've just gotten funding from, literally this month, through the BAA solution. So we have a half a position now funded for our twenty fifth, last year it wasn't funded, we are actively pursuing opening up a transport position right now. Which we have 20, is it 25? We have 22 filled right now. 22 filled, right? When you said say paid, was thinking below par, but you're talking about transportation.

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: And I do want to know, what is the hourly cost per day for now?

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: We'll get that to you. So

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: I'm looking at the follow-up on what's the same for the Holzby product? Yeah, for his full time positions. I agree with what's scheduled for years. But I would think that if we entertained the possibility of creating a full time position or two that it would cut cost off the per diem level also. Correct. So I need that figure to look at this in a broader picture, obviously. And then at some point, I'm sure Judge Zodie may be listening at some point in

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: time, we've all said this. At what point in time,

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: we sit for four hours having to see

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: if this judiciary's going finance to open this versus coming out

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: as executive director's bill and

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: they start to share us. That's the discussion we're not going

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: to have right now. I think that covers

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Yeah, so just for the record, in general what's it again?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: $50

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: $50 an That covers everything from

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: the FYC. It's $50 per hour.

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: It's usually here at Fox.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: That's the wage?

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: Yes, thank you. And so the way that program works right now is if we use a state transport deputy, it's a state employee, pay their salary benefits, and then if there's overtime, pay overtime. But in a county like, I don't know, like Essex County, if Sheriff Colby does a state related transport, he will request a per diem rating for him or for his deputies. And likewise, the Royal County Sheriff Park who would let us know. Not all of the counties have state transport deputies. And we recently had a question about this. That is if we allocate the state transport deputies based on a bunch of factors, one of which being connectivity to a facility, volume for a particular region, whether or not that county can help other counties. So just because a county doesn't have a state transport deputy is not any sort of critique of that sheriff per se. I will say there are two sheriffs right now without law enforcement certification, and we do not have any APA deputies under their supervision. And that is a major factor for me personally in terms of allocation.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Any other questions? All right, well, thanks for your time.

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: On my other sheet where you have the SAS legal assistance and secondaries, you're requesting three and three. The placement of these would be in counties or in the director's office? Those would be in counties. In counties. We identified which counties were these, in eight thirty three. So that's a call that we typically make based on pulling data

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: at the time of allocation. That, as I would look at, would be that lot of cases, number of pending violent cases, including homicides and sexual assault cases, and also reported crime. So cases coming in where local law enforcement is sending a lot of cases. For example, places like, based on the data right now, Windham, Washington, Chittenden, Bennington, and Robins. These are really Franklin County. These are locations where our office is already doing some, what I would call cross county support. So we have some staff that help in multiple counties. And our central office also provides some supports as well to counties that struggle with pace with one of our staff members, Manny Nader, who helps Franklin. Yeah, compromise. Yeah, couple of our staff members. These are the county allocated positions that we would allocate based on a bunch of factors. And

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: that's great, drastic on the position, but I guess I would need more data on what you're basing at this point. Thank

[David Cahill, Executive Director, Department of State’s Attorneys and Sheriffs]: you, absolutely. Great, thank you, thank you very much. Good to see you all.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Alright. You need the screen or anything?

[Charlie Glitherman, Policy Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence]: Good morning. I think I should yield that Emory finally printed out copies of my testimony. Thanks for the

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: nominate, and whenever you're ready, there'll be

[Charlie Glitherman, Policy Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence]: some more in the simpler substance. Perfect. Well, thank you for having me. My name is Charlie Glitherman. I'm the policy director at the Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence. The Vermont Network is Vermont's leading voice on domestic and sexual violence, and our member programs, 14 independent nonprofit organizations, provide advocacy and support to survivors in every town across the state. These services are lifesaving and life changing. Our member organizations offer 20 fourseven crisis response when a survivor's safety is at risk, emergency shelter for survivors and their children, confidential assistance navigating medical care, the legal system, housing, and other basic needs. Advocates meet survivors where they are, and they help them rebuild safety, dignity, and control over their lives. In 2025, our member organizations answered over 23,000 hotline calls, which was an increase of 1,000 from the previous year, and provided in person advocacy to nearly 8,000 for Honors. Despite the essential nature of these services, they've largely been flat funded through Vermont's domestic and federal violent federal hunt for fifteen years. This special fund established in 2008 and championed by the late Senator Sears relies on two revenue sources, a surcharge on civil and criminal court judgments and surcharge on marriage license fees. These revenues are allocated to Vermont's 14 service providers through a funding formula that ensures equitable resources statewide. The special fund revenues have declined significantly over the past decade. With the exception of one fiscal year, the special fund has run a deficit every year since FY15, requiring one time appropriations from the general assembly Puphoy Test. Even with repeated requests for a more sustainable funding solution, the Special Fund is projected to have yet another shortfall in FY twenty twenty seven. Last year, General Assembly appropriated $450,000 in one time funds to stabilize the Special Fund, which we are very grateful for. And of that amount, 250,000 was distributed to our member organizations to support direct services for survivors. The Vermont Center for Crime Victim Services, which is the administrator of the special fund, retained $200,000 to maintain a sufficient cash balance for quarterly reimbursements. At the same time, shifts in federal funding continue to pose serious challenges to our field. Our member programs are majority federally funded, and for some, federal funds make up over 90% of their budgets. The ongoing instability of both state and federal funding does threaten the core promise that we make to survivors that services will be available in their community 20 fourseven. For the FY '27 state budget, we respectfully have two requests. The first is 350,000 in base funds to level fund domestic and sexual violence services. While we estimate that the special fund ultimately needs to support 5,000,000 in annual expenses, given the current fiscal climate, our request focuses on maintaining current service levels. We're requesting $350,000 to fill the projected deficit in this upcoming fiscal year in the special fund and prevent cuts to community based direct services on July 1. The House budget appropriates this amount as one time funds, and we are requesting that these funds be based. In addition, the Center for Crime Victim Services currently receives no administrative funding to manage the special fund, and we support the Center's request for $100,000 in base funding to administer the program, which is included in the House budget as well. Our second request is $250,000 in base funds to DCF for a statewide system of supervised visitation programs. There is an urgent funding need for Vermont's supervised visitation system, which we're discussing in Senate Health and Welfare as well because this issue truly does cut across both the state committee. Supervised visitation programs have been chronically underfunded for more than fifteen years, and this has led to multiple program closures and significant gaps in services, including an additional program closure that happened last year. Supervised visitation programs provide a safe structured setting where a parent can spend monitored time with their child. Courts and DCF order supervised visitation in cases involving risk to a child or non abusive parent, including many cases of domestic violence. The majority of supervised referrals comes from the courts. Today, there are six independent nonprofit centers operating supervised visitation programs across Vermont, that is five counties without a local program. Because these services are often mandated, families in these counties must travel long distances or miss visits entirely or rely on untrained family members or friends to supervise contact instead of trained professionals. And these situations can pose substantial safety risks. So it goes. You said there are six operating programs currently. Yes. I'm curious then how only five counties don't have appropriate other plans. We have 14 counties. There are two programs that serve multiple counties. Thank you. You're welcome. Try to do some math while the math is. Totally respect it. And so there are six programs. They are serving folks at this point across the state. Those five counties, I think it's also important to note, are clustered through the center of Vermont down into the South from Lagoille to Windsor County, which means that there really is a desert of supervised visitation where people do not have access to services. They are traveling multiple hours in the car to have a visit with their child. I encountered a family that didn't have visits for about a year when their child was young, and that's just not acceptable. Even in counties that do have programs, there are long wait lists, sometimes several months to a year, and it makes it very difficult for families to comply with court orders. Last year, the legislature directed DCF and the judiciary to jointly prepare a report on Vermont's Supervised Visitation System and its funding needs, and the report highlighted the significant challenges facing Supervised Visitation Programs and identified insufficient funding as a primary barrier to ensuring that services are consistent and available statewide. The House budget includes a one time increase of $130,000 in general funds allocated to DCF for supervised visitation. We are requesting at least $250,000 in an increase, which is 120,000 above the house appropriated amount to prevent additional program closures and expand access in those underserved counties. And I've included some proposed budget language for supervisor visitation at the end of my recent testimony, if that's helpful. Thank

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: you. And I did have one question.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Let's say the 130 stays as it is rather than the $2.50, how many programs will close?

[Charlie Glitherman, Policy Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence]: It's a great question. I don't have a specific number. I know that there are several that are really on the breaking point at this point. Exactly what that amount would look like, how it's distributed across the existing programs, think would really determine the exact impacts. But the situation's really dire. And I would also note that with the current appropriated amount, there's also an interest in looking at services being expanded in those counties that do not have access or very little access to services right now. And that unfortunately likely wouldn't be possible without a further increase to the House budget amount. That's what I have.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Did you have a question? Sorry.

[Charlie Glitherman, Policy Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence]: No worries. We would just appreciate the committee's strong support for our requests. I would be more than happy to answer any questions. Thank

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: you.

[Charlie Glitherman, Policy Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence]: Thank you very much. She did put the time and we're gonna go with the pen. Stable pen. Alright. Alright.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: We can, take a break for five minutes, and then