Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Are in the Senate Judiciary. It's January 14. Sorry. We're a couple minutes late. That was my fault. It's a lot of time. Today, we are going to take an introduction to S one eighty three, while introduced by Vice Chair, Senator Norris. Senator Norris is gonna provide a general overview, and I believe we have his constituent on the Zoom who will provide her experience that we've prompted this bill. So oh, and then we will also have Greenville Childs come in at a later date. So let's see if

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: we can Thank you. We

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: have to make some agenda rearrangements, but we will be revisiting this bill a bit more in-depth later on. Senator Norris, if you'd like to introduce Bill and your constituent, we can take care of that.

[Sen. Robert "Bob" Norris (Vice Chair)]: Sure. Good morning. This is Bill. We're looking at the

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: One second. Pardon? Just let me let him in a second. Is she She's in the meeting. Yeah. If you could just let her in just so that she could just Yeah. She's in the morning, Ms. Merchant. Can you hear it?

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Yep, I can hear you.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Thank you. So sorry we're just a few minutes behind. Our committee just started and and Senator Norris is just going to introduce what the bill does and he'll introduce you here in a few minutes and then we can hear about your story and your experience as to how this bill came to be. So thanks for joining us.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Okay. Thank you.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Take your time.

[Sen. Robert "Bob" Norris (Vice Chair)]: Good morning, Mary.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Morning, Bob.

[Sen. Robert "Bob" Norris (Vice Chair)]: So this is Senate Bill 183. I was approached by Tammy in 2025 in reference to an incident that took place at her property. What S-one Hundred 83 does is crimes against home improvement and life improvement of fraud. The bill proposed to require that the person knowingly, which fee worker knowingly intends to defraud the client, whom the person has had an agreement or contract for home or land improvement. As it stands now, I guess it's safe to say it's a simple bill because every time we say that, it turns out to not be a simple bill. But there's no recourse presently, as as Tanya will testify to in reference to fraud. It's a it's a civil claim. I know that, chair Lalonde in the house judiciary was also looking at he he's sitting on one of these bills here. There seemed to be no recourse other than taking someone to court civilly and expending more monies after you lost a lot of monies. And on page three, anytime someone prompts to perform a person who is not a detective performer knows her will not be performed in whole or in part. So what we're trying to do in this bill, obviously, Michelle, alleged counsel is not here to walk us through this. We're trying to make this criminal in nature versus civil appeal within the court system here. And Tammy can explain as to why we're

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: here today. Great. Thank you. Tammy, floor is yours.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Okay. Yeah, this started actually in September '2 is when we were told that he was no longer in business due to financial reasons. So we had already at that point given him $13,386 when we signed the contract quote May 2022. It had everything, I mean I have copies of the quote, the signed checks, everything, for work that was to be started no later than July. We needed to order a special window, and that's why we needed the money earlier, so we gave him half the deposit. It was supposed to be a full outside renovation totaling around $33,000 so we gave half. And we left on, I think it was May 9, handshake, everything signed, check's gone. And then every so often my husband or I would check-in with him and, yep, we're running a little late, you're the next house, over and over and over. Never did he come back to our house after we gave him the check, because he was so busy. So we just, and the sad thing is he lives, like we can almost see his house from our house. So I mean it was always like passing on the road, and yep, yep, you're the next on the list. And then in August we had started to hear murmurs of, oh, he's not doing work anymore, he's out of business. And then we actually started getting bombarded by people saying that his work, only half does it, if he does it at all. He'll order stuff but not do it. So in September we set up for a meeting and said, we need to meet to go over what's going on, or basically we want our money back. The contract hadn't been fulfilled. So it was, I want to say the September, we got the text message saying that you know what, we are no longer in business due to financial reasons, and our lawyer will be in touch with you. So after that we've heard nothing, I actually, my husband and I went and tried to sue him to get our money back, Tim Harlebut's office served him. They had, I believe it was until the January to respond, well the January he filed for bankruptcy. So our hands were tied. And then I started getting reached out to from other people that he had done this to. We met with the state's attorney, Diane Wheeler and Kelly Woodward, and they were going to go after him criminally. So all this time we would go to court cases on Zoom, of course, because they didn't want us in the courtroom with him. They put like a restraining order against him so he could have no contact with us. And on one of the meetings, I specifically asked about that specialized window that was taking six weeks that needed to be ordered ASAP, and I have a recording that, oh, I never ordered it. So that prompted me to say, oh, so you never planned on doing it. If he was, we're the next on the line and he didn't even order the pieces that were needed. We actually have been going 2023, there was a couple plea deals. He put his house up for sale, but they always fell through. And then at the '4, Diane Wheeler and Kelly called myself and my husband, and we worked out there was going to be a plea deal, they were going to drop his wife from the proceeds, he was going to take full responsibility, their house was almost sold, and we were going to get paid in full, but that was the end of it. We could no longer do anything else, which we all signed. It was supposed to be handled in October, And then all of a sudden, nothing, cricket. His house didn't sell. And then we get the notification that the Supreme Court had overturned the other home improvement fraud lawsuit. And as soon as that came through, lo and behold, his house sold. And now we've just been in limbo. In my opinion, he never had any intention of doing it. Super, super salesperson, very personable, meeting him, never think that he would do this to somebody. I mean, we had asked for references, we went and saw some of his work, but miraculously no one was ever home when we got to those houses. So I don't know if it was even his work or if he just, you know, it was family, but since September '2 we have not heard anything directly from him or his wife. And they were the ones that had reached out to us originally. I had put a notice on front porch forum for the Sheldon Fairfield. It's asking for local carpenters, local vendors, because we wanted to keep our money locally, and his wife reached out to us and said, Oh, we're perfect for this, we can do this, and we're right around the corner. I have all of this in email, I'm a very stickler for keeping paperwork, so I have all the texts and emails. In my mind, it's no different than him walking into our house and stealing $13,386 right from our checkbook, and then we had to pay an additional $2,000 for a lawyer that we got nothing from. And we're still living in the same house, still needing the same renovation that we can't afford now because our heat never went down, our electricity never went down, so basically we just wrote him a check and he left.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Thank you, Bob. Thank you, Tammy. Senator Norris.

[Sen. Robert "Bob" Norris (Vice Chair)]: Yes. So Tammy, correct me if I'm wrong. So he cashed the check, the window never came in, and the the work by contract was never accomplished, never finished.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: It wasn't ever started.

[Sen. Robert "Bob" Norris (Vice Chair)]: Okay, and you were told from the state's attorney's office that they could not pursue criminal charges against him, it's a civil matter at this point in time?

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Correct, because we were listed as a creditor on his bankruptcy charge, or his bankruptcy claim, so we have no recourse now, except to go after a criminal And that, because there was, I believe there was five of us going through with Diane Wheeler who had cases against Dave Johnson and his wife.

[Sen. Robert "Bob" Norris (Vice Chair)]: And I think the Supreme Court decision, Doctor. Nader probably who he was under appealed, particularly at one time. And our state's attorney, Franklin, just decided not to appeal that decision. And I don't know who did. When Michelle comes in, maybe she can elaborate on some of those before us, if that'd be helpful.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Yeah, that would be helpful. Thank you, Tammy. Just so you have an idea and the in general has an idea, we'll be hearing testimony from different parties over the coming weeks and we'll be slowly working through this among many other bills. But thank you for your testimony. Appreciate it. Mister Bobosky, do you have any questions?

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: I don't think so but thank you for being here and I'm so sorry that that has happened to you. It sounds really awful. It's very traumatic because you start to realize you can't trust people. We've always, especially in a close knit community where everybody knows everybody, and then this has happened. But he has built a brand new house over in New York, living his best life.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Thank you, Jamie.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Take care.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Have a great day.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: You as well.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Bye bye.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: So I'm just gonna roughly pivot here and see if can get it. Is Chris online, by any chance? No. No? Okay, that's fine. I told him it would be tentative, so we'll get him to look for another time.

[Tammy Merchant (Constituent)]: Fine, so they can email him.

[Sen. Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Okay, well, I don't want them to feel trash, because we only have ten to fifteen minutes until 09:30, so I think maybe it'll make more sense if we just go off the air, take a break, We'll be back. The committee can be back at 09:25 just until the get settled in.