Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: We're gonna be going live. Alright. We are live. Alright. Good morning. We are

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: Yes, sir.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Back in the consent judiciary. It is January 8, and we are taking up the confirmation of judge Oye. And just some quick housekeeping things since we're live and the public is listening. I just want folks to know that moving forward with applications, one minor change is that the dates of birth on these applications will be redacted or all appointees have come before us. And the second housekeeping piece oh, and also these applications will be posted on our committee page shortly for any folks who want to review this. And the second case, I also handed out to committee members the statutory requirements that the judicial nominating the board follows when going through confirmation process. Senator Norris and I are very familiar with that as we go to those meetings often. But for the public who may be listening, when the judicial nominating board is going through this process, we will make sure that the applicants are meeting a number of criteria. And those criteria are listed in Title IV, Statute six zero two. And a summarized version of attributes are integrity, legal knowledge and ability, judicial temperament, impartiality, communication capability, financial integrity, work ethic, and administrative capabilities, and important experience, and any other attributes that the Board deems. With that being said, we can get started with the judge. And if you'd like to join us and provide us with an introduction, then you may have some questions that

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: I won't admit. Very good. Thank you. Have some notes on my phone because I'm not touching the phone. It's been working. But good morning. Thanks for the time this morning. My name is Colin Oeyong. I've met some of these before on the. I thought I would just say a few words about information that's not on my materials since I know you have them, and I'm and I was very happy to be here in two varieties of that. But the governor appointed me on October 6. And sort of since that time, I have completed this court sort of standard five to six week orientation and standing program, and have been then assigned to sit in the civil docket in Chittenden, so the Main Street Courthouse in Dodge. I've also been covering cases from Orange in Caledonia, Grand Isle, and Orleans Counties, just basically my way of grounding other docket and helping out as I get out of this new. My family and I live in Shelburne. My wife is the chief of the newborn ICU Newtown. She also teaches at medical school there. We have three sons. Our oldest is 25 who works in finance in New York. Cheryl Merrill Center is 22. He's teaching civil boarding at Smugs, and we're working at a restaurant in Charlotte, and our youngest is in sixth grade at Sheldon Red Community School. We've been lucky enough to live here in Vermont for the last ten years or so. I'll move here for work related reasons. I grew up in Central Massachusetts in Fortuna County, where my parents raised both my brother and me. My older brother lives down in Salt Lake City. He's had a very interesting career both in business and in film. I have more degrees. He has really more of everything else than anything else. Both my parents were teachers. My father spent his career at a school called Bushster Polytech Institute in Woodson, Massachusetts, and he was a professor of electrical engineering. My father spent most of her career at college called Memorial College in Boston, where she taught music. And then for her pre retirement last gasp, she moved with my dad who dragged him to California. She was dean at what used to be called Humboldt State University before retiring. They both were born in China. They fled the civil war there, moved the town right around the world, started doing lives in Massachusetts where they learn new languages and raised my own brother in the ages. Both my mom and my dad, of their siblings, spent their lives and careers to look into their families, either as teachers, members of the clergy or the church in medicine, while working for the government. I'm very, very grateful to obviously have the opportunity to return to public service and give something that we now consider our adoptive statements. I'm happy to take questions or say more, but like I said, I figured I'd pause there. The rest of my professional materials are in the application, and I'll do my best to answer any questions. Thank you. Sir.

[Senator Philip Baruth (Member)]: Welcome. Firstly, first of all, I thank you for stepping up to this role. I I would say I'm very impressed with your qualifications but also with your prose, your lyrical expressions here. I have to be a writer myself. So that's what I'd like to ask you about. You were sort of walking between worlds and also that you felt the power of the law firsthand, not in a positive way. I'm wondering if you can just talk about that and flesh that out. Sure. I mean, I, you know, I think personally, as the son of immigrants, one of the things that my parents taught us was the value of kind of. And as a former school teacher myself, this year, I learned when we interviewed kindergarten, part of the social skills we look for is how well do they get along with others on the playground.

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: And I think in that sense, although it's less positive for today, I think simulation is a helpful life skill to learn how to fit in. But we look we like the way we look in the world that we live in. So, you know, I think the one experience that's most memorable for me is that as a child, we were doing a little bit of a road trip to visit our her family, her extended family, my dad's sister's, And we were going across the Canadian border through Miami Falls on our way to Ohio. And my dad, being the careful cautious engineer he was, he carried all his paperwork, but he carried the written most carried copies. Well, you may know what you make copies of your green card paperwork. It is literally a felony. I've now made that copy of the business street as a counterfeit. Nazi body presented at the border. We were detained for what is officially called secondary inspection, which in the eyes of a child is unofficially called sit in the car quietly while your mom loses her mind and your dad is taken by, you know, armed agents for what felt like a very long period of time. Having prosecuted cases arising out of facts like that, I understand why the border agents do that. That's part of the job. And to be clear, my dad was treated very professional. It was an experience, kind of, I still remember to this day. I've been very clear with my sons. Anytime we're crossing the border, we're always gonna pay more. We're very clear about how you behaved and speaking to the board, how dangerous that stuff is, just like any stuff in an automobile. They're educated very clearly. I'm wearing a clear hand to a minute holdover for all the wear and It's a very, difficult part of life in addition to reality. And we are in museums, and people form judgments based upon what they see and hear. That's a natural part in humans. However, the more you can make life as comfortable and as soon as possible for anyone involved, the less stress there is, that doesn't mean that there's no stress. And so I would say that's kind of my first interaction with them. It really didn't matter that I was who I thought I was. I realize now I'm looking in the mirror through the eyes of others. Right. Thank you very much. Any other questions?

[Senator Robert Norris (Vice Chair)]: I don't have any questions. Obviously, Senator, she, myself do sit on a judicial nominee report. I'd like to take a chance to congratulate you on your appointment. Oh, thank you, sir. I wish you well in the future, and I think

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: that you're a great candidate, great choice, your honor. Senator Thompson.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: Thank you for being here. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about some of the cases you prosecuted, both as a US attorney and an assistant US attorney. The things that sort of jumped out at me are the prosecutions of prostitution and deliberation. And I'm wondering if you can tell us a little

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: bit more about that. Sure. So in Washington DC, and you may know this is our, if it's a little bit different, I think, because we treat as a country, the District Of Columbia as almost a colony. So it doesn't have a full fledged state of government. Its superior court is very much like our superior court. It deals with primarily state level offenses. So even though I was a federal prosecutor there, I was in essentially the equivalent of the state court. So the cases involving prosecution at the time, the focus of the police department was on using undercover police officers to cast the johns in certain neighborhoods because, as you may know, neighborhoods where that crime is freedom, which was the case there, creates a really bad impact on the quality of life of the residents and the families. Those neighborhoods tend not to be higher income. They tend not to be affluent. They tend not to be empowered. Sling officers worked regularly in those neighborhoods and the defendants were the Johns. I can't recall a case where there was a, where we were targeting the prostitutes themselves. I have obviously had drug cases where people are involved in that human child, and those results have been developed during the dependencies. So that would be the bulk of the prostitution cases. For the immigration offenses, those were predominantly in Boston, as well not necessarily traditional US transgender. But at the time of screening criteria for those cases were only people who had illegally reentered after having received a prior federal felony conviction. Okay, so people had come once, committed a felony in our country, had been convicted by our system, and then deported, and then they came down. And so we would handle cases that said, these are illegal reentries with prior felony convictions. None of the ones tried, they were almost all I treated them, but it was less circumventful.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: Understandable. It sounds like they were fairly complex cases in both instances.

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: In both cases, weren't, yeah, they weren't the standard kind of case. And I think in the scheme of things, most seasoned prosecutor didn't say that in most common prosecutors, but they're high ballers. Thank you. Sure. Anything else, mother senator Mattos?

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Actually, the quick one. First, I have a one one year old and a three year old. Yep. And I wouldn't mind if you gave a big thank you to your wife as she's the NICU because both my boys spent a little free time in the NICU when they were born. So it was an amazing experience in that unit, and it was it was fantastic. But getting back on track of the New York work. I'm I'm just curious. It's always nice to have fresh eyes coming into the judicial system, and you've been in Chittenden County and Orleans County and Essex County. Can you speak a little bit about, like, the differences of what you see between the different counties and just what you've noticed between the different counties, you know, maybe it's the types of cases that you hear and things like that.

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: Sure. I mean, I don't I have cases in all those counties, but we can say I've been I mean, I have an exception in Vindia. I guess my initial observations as a as a person who's been here for, you know, a couple of days, every county is, you know, quite different. I think it's driven by, obviously, the population and the mix of the kids. So just in terms of the case, obviously there's more people in children's and counties. On the civil side, there's different cases. More businesses are located in children's counties. So I think on average, we'll probably see more commercial litigation in other parts of the state. I think what I'm saying in other parts of the states, and what I've heard is that you see the kinds of disputes that you would expect in a real estate. There are a lot of disputes over property notaries and rights of way. Yeah. Because as you know well, someone owned a farm a long time ago and made it into some kind of subdivisions. And the history of what eats goes back seventy two years, and what people said and meant, and a person's life never wrote it down. So we in summary, on the case side, obviously, a member of these of these disputes. And I would say the culture probably reflects what you would expect. Again, every county in Vermont, in some ways, you will get a different planet. I think that's a great thing. Think that's part of that challenge and was excitement for someone in the spirit court is you do get to roll around or take around in assignments, and you get to sort of see certain local lessons. Right.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Yeah. Because sometimes we don't wanna lose sight in this building of that a blanket approach doesn't all support in that there are differences even if we're just going 50 miles north or whatever the distance may be. So I

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: was just curious about your interaction so far. Of course. Thank

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Member)]: you. I know that you've been assigned to the civil division in Chittenden County, but in sort of Lansing over your background, it seems like you have a lot of experience in certain environmental issues. And I wonder if you have any thoughts about, our environmental court system and ways we might prove that or things that are working really well there?

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: I don't have any interesting thoughts at all. Okay. Have to say that it was in the process of applying and and being in Vermont that I recognized that we have this unique structure. In Massachusetts, where I was part of my career, had a special division at Superior Court called the Business Litigation Section, which is self explanatory. I understand now having been involved why we have the environmental division. I think it's probably a good idea for those reasons. But candidly, I really don't know if that provides offering. That's okay. So I'm wondering if, you might

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: be able to expand a bit on some of your other experience that I'm seeing in your resume, mainly because I'm sure that, folks who might be listening and looking at your resume might be wondering how your experience with Delta or Franklin Energy or National Grid is applicable to your current role in the judge. And so could you share some more as to how that experience connects to what you're doing now?

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: Sure. I mean, it's not the career path. I don't know what career path I anticipated for myself, but I don't think I thought I would be going in house. The reason I went in house was, you know, a variety of reasons, but what I realized by going in house was that it was important to sort of step back from just being a lawyer. Right? Because once you go to work for companies, you're part of the legal department. The legal department's part of a larger company. And I found that it was great to be reminded of, yeah, lawyers have their strengths. They also have their blind spots if you have a face on their training. And that's true of engineers or accountants. But for enterprise to make a decision, it's important to bring all those perspectives to the table to make the best decisions. So I I really feel like, hey, what that taught me is the value of listening for the unspoken because just like now where when I'm on the bench, there's an interpretive hierarchy. And I have to expect that people are gonna respect that, which means that they may not always speak, can't believe about what they are thinking, which may mean I miss the opportunity to hear something or don't know or ask something because I won't know. So I learned those skills of, I would say, listening between the words in a corporate environment where I have senior positions over hundreds of thousands of people who obviously I wanted their different opinions, but not everyone's gonna tell their boss to disagree with them very regularly, so that can be helpful. But I would say that's sort of one set of people skills that I developed in private sector management. But I think if you don't sit in those shoes, don't wanna grab them. The other part is kind of managing. Like, I spent some time in corporate strategy in those roles. Part of that is setting objectives across an enterprise. And at the time, National Grid was 17,000 employees in The US, about 200 in whole legal department. To get 200 people to go on the same direction is not easy, and it's not incidental. So to set objectives, that makes sense for the organization, makes sense for the department, makes sense for me as their leader down to the line lawyer to also testify their way through all that. I think that kind of organizational management skill kind of is also very helpful. And then lastly, I'll say is utilities are regulated. So although they are private sector, Velco is interesting and different in the sense that it is privately held, but ultimately all of its earnings go back to Vermont customers. So there is very much a public spirit. And you learn the value and benefit of what's the interest of the private shareholder, what do you justify to the customer, and what would make sense for the regulator so the regulator can do fair job. And I think understanding really how public private partnerships can work effectively and not so effectively, those are the perspectives that I've learned in those experiences. Thank you. And there's one more question that's much more general and broad.

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: Changing to your respective and approach on the bench, I I know there's a civil division there in situations where one party may have representation. I'm thinking of landlord tenant issues. Typically where a landlord has the means to have representation and on the other side, you may have a tenant who is pro se. And so when when you have these parties from a variety of different socioeconomic backgrounds in front of you, what is your general approach and perspective and how you deal with this?

[Judge Colin Owyang (Superior Court Nominee)]: I think generally it's part of what I was saying, Philip, right? So the benefit of time will, I think, overcome a lot, which is I need to let whoever it is, whether they're lawyer or not, if they're not, time to sort of say their peace. It helps me see where they're coming from. And importantly, should help them feel that they've had their time or they're getting the court to say whatever they feel like they need to assess it, whether it's legally relevant or not. So there's that, I think, can only be solved by that in time, which, as you know, is part of the reason that drives case time to increase. I think that's inevitable because if you don't give them the time, they're not gonna leave feeling like they've been hurt. They, I will miss, possibly, something that I would not have asked with my narrow legal lens on that they feel is relevant. So at the end of the day, I am probably trying the patience of the lawyer representing the other party. I think those lawyers know well what the judges are trying to do. At the same time, I'm sure I'm also partly frustrating the unrepresented party or the party representing themselves because they may come so yesterday was a good example. 13 status conferences in every case one or all sides were unrepresented. But all they know is they're coming to court. And then they know it's a status conference, but they don't know that it's on for ten minutes and what a status conference is versus a formal hearing on the merits. So they come with all of their paperwork thinking that we're gonna make a final decision. It takes more than ten minutes for me to explain what a status conference is in a way that is respectful to where they're starting from. And I'm a work in progress. I know I have to do it perfectly every time. I learn every time that I could have done it differently and better. I hope all I can do so, but I would say that's generally my end up with the finances. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions?

[Senator Nader Hashim (Chair)]: All right, great. Well, thank you and congratulations. Nice to see you again. So this is the practice with all confirmation appointees. After this initial meeting, we leave we leave it, I guess, on the wall, you would say, for about a week, and that allows the public to provide any input. And then and then so a week from now, barring any unforeseen circumstances, we'll vote and to hear from Judge Zelnick.