Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay, it's 05/20/2026, and this is our third meeting, I believe, the day. Conference the conference committee of senate and house institutions and corrections. And I want to share

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: the proposal

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: for our last conversation, was the house tied together the stormwater utility with the sale of 110. And so you'll, obviously my suggestions are, or Wes, or conditions relate to the preservation of that structure. So first one is sale at a minimum of fair market value. Second one is to include interior and exterior protection covenants per the historic preservation officer. Three is to provide a sales contract to the chairs of House and Senate institutions prior to the closing. This is not giving us any authority, it's just providing the sales contract before it's completed and then a right of first refusal for the state to repurchase the property in case the future owner wants to sell the property the state would have the right to purchase if they will with and I'm not proposing any sort of requirements for price or anything like that And then obviously the storm water utility thing. And I do need to check with leadership. This I I don't anticipate an issue, but it would be irresponsible if we do.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So, selling a fair market value then it needs to include the interior exterior covenants for historic preservation.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yes and per the historic preservation officer. And

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: then

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: sales contracts would be shown to the chairs prior to The closing.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Prior to closing. BGS, I don't know. Can you do that? No. So I'll let you finish. And then

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: the right of first refusal in repurchasing the building if it goes back for. Correct. I I I just wanna weigh in on that one. So

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: once we if I may, madam? Of course. Yes. Thank you. Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services for the record. So even with we put projects out to bid, that information's public. So what I am hearing you say is in that bid we're going to have to be very specific about the proposed covenants and agreements. Once we receive bids they they're are, not public documents until we sign a letter of intent. So bringing providing you the contract, I'll be fine with, but it's a done deal. And in a sense, there's and you're not you know, it's, it might be I I guess we can provide the contract, but really do you want is it present is it sharing with you the proposal of what we're putting out to bid with those covenants? Because that's what you wanna see. Correct?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I want to see what is going to be Included. Added. And that

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: would be in the in what we actually scope out to give to brokers or to provide

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: it is

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: that the sale of this property will include this covenant, this covenant, this covenant. It will say shall include this covenant. So, because you know, so to answer your question, I'm concerned about us providing contracts.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Well, the reason I'm asking this is currently right now you're in negotiations with a design, with a developer, the juvenile facility. We can't get that information because that's not public information.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: That's correct. Was trying to find an alternative. Well, it's in plus

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: we can't get the information.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: So, you're saying you want to sign the agreement. Correct.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. Then that's a Right. But before it's executed. No. That's the thing.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Can't get what's saying. Executed at

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: the time it becomes public up

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: to that point. It's not It's But we can put and that's public records, and that's the and and and that's So it becomes a public record at accurate signs. And the sale is And it is is fine. But that's why I was saying, do we share because you wanna see what we're going to actually include for the sale. That's I'm trying to get at the same place, the same information that you're looking for, senator, but in a in a in an earlier step.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: It would be helpful to have the conditions as you're presenting them to potential buyers. Yes. But I cannot I could provide you a signed contract. I cannot share with you.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: You can provide us the RFP. Could go out to

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: the building.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: That's what I'm saying. That has the information that you want in terms of what

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: is price of the building or is

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: it all the conditions? It's both and we won't know for sure both until there is a sales agreement. So, if it's not possible to give us the sales contract before it's entered into then we get it after you've entered into it.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: And and that's that's that's one.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: But I want to verify with other with the other attorney that that's.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: I I mean, it's public at that point. That's why I was thinking if you're trying to just get an overview of what are the specific covenants or conditions that would be placing on the sales, it would be that we we we would provide you those documents prior to going out to to you know, prior to advertising for your review because that's really that's the point of where you

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I'm trying to get to where you're trying to get. Thank you. It does make sense to include like the protection covenants to to have that come to our committees That makes sense but I also, I think it's necessary that we get as soon as, as early as possible

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: the actual agreement. Yeah, so once there's signed contract and we have a final sale then of course.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: And then can the legislature say we're not going forward?

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: No, it's a signed agreement. It's a signed sales agreement.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Right

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: and I didn't, I wasn't anticipating that we would block the sale but I would prefer if it's legal to see the actual sales contract before it's executed.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: And I think the RFP is going to include the same information that you're assigning with the contract. Yeah. That's that's and as commissioner and knowing how our process works, it's we don't change what's in an RFP to the sale. We put the covenants in. It says, you will sell it. It shall have this, this, this. They don't get to negotiate that up on on the sale. So but I understand what you're saying. I know we can provide the contract prior. And the other thing I just you're saying include the interior and exteriors. I think that is in statute, so you may wanna reference the statute in addition to that language. Okay. That's fine. I think and I I think it's why don't I keep title 22 the 700 there's some it's seven forty three and maybe some other sections.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So go ahead.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Yes Sandra I have just a question on that. So the third stipulation is about the sales contract and as I'm understanding it from you that is to make sure that the first two stipulations have been met, the first of which is the minimum fair market value, the second of which is the interior and exterior, right?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: It's not just for that. It's just because there could be other items interest.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Whether it's going oversight, those sorts of things are not, right?

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right, right.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: And so if we were to then see the RFP when it goes out and if we were then to see the contracts as soon as it's closed, does that not provide the oversight necessary? No,

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: because what's important also is the buyer and there's other things. Mean they can get complicated pretty fast. I think it's important that

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: But I mean I guess that's what I'm asking like what are the other parts that I'm missing? Is it the buyer? It the

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Well the buyer's one. I mean we don't know the buyer until there's a contract. And that's why, yes, in personal real estate, there's a contract and then the closing is sometimes two months away or more. So,

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: that

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: contract that has been signed that that really that tells you what's going to happen. And so that's what I would prefer to see but I'm hearing that we can't but that's what I would prefer to see because that's a complete contract.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: You want to see that contract before it's signed. Exactly. We're not allowed to.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Well and that's kind of interesting too.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Don't know why I'm allowed to. I you're you said you wanted to be provided the contract to ensure those pieces were in there. It's not to manage it or to see who's getting it. So I'm trying to get I'm trying to get to the place that you are to see if if there's a solution. But so we preserve those private rights. I I I wanna say we are required to bid or to go to brokers. We have to we are required to accept all. We can't just pick one person. I would say, wanna offer you this property. This our statute under BGS is very, very clear. So if there's any thinking that there's already perceived buyer or negotiating with someone, we can't do that under the authority. And now that you're removing the notwithstanding, we have to follow the letter of the law to the tee. Sometimes we advertise, sometimes we go to brokers, sometimes we do a combination of of both. All of those responses are protected under the public records, and we go through them and and we evaluate them. And you know, and so and we are supposed to give it to the highest bidder within fair market value. That's that is that's the other piece. And then the other conditions would be the covenants. So I'm just trying to say, I believe that we are acting in really good faith and in light of I'm trying to figure out what we're missing so I can help the committee bring this to Okay.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Closer. Well, my intent is pretty clear, I think. So does your tenants wanting to know what's in that contract before I signed? Yes that's one of mine yes like like I mean for example like not having the I mean the covenants are critical

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: That's a quick question. Are you can you share a draft contract not with anybody's name on it? Here's a draft contract. You know? Which

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: I I can share with you some some sales contracts that we've had, but all of them, because there might be a covenant or it might be a what notwithstanding, right? They all have different different pieces. So, you know, a land sale might be different than a building. So I could

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: What I was thinking, going to this, is the RFP lays out all of conditions. That's correct, sir. And I assume that you work with certain templates for your actual sales agreement.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: To a certain yes.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I I think that's that's fair. That's fair.

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Is kind of our template. Here is the RFP, it has all of the things you're looking for, and then when the sale is actually executed, that you could then provide a copy of the actual executed document because then it

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Yeah. And I think And I think we're sort of Right.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: But I think what you wanna see is before it's signed.

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Well, that's why I'm trying to look at the RFP having all of the conditions in it and a template of the kind of draft, contract. So the final contract may be slightly different, but it's basically this is the format of our contract if you follow where

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: No, I think what we're kind of saying.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah, is, it is, but yeah the RFP and the conditions and the sales advertisement those those are all good things but the actual contract itself. You won't

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: see till it's done.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: That's what saying. That's what I'm understanding so that is all that we can see then that's what I would want in this list. After it's signed. I understand. Well and when you say signed it sounds as if the executed. Right well executed is signed but then also there's the money transfer so that would probably have happened. So

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: you want to see and then all of the money from the sale it's in statute is redirected back to the Capitol Building.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I saw this. Yes. And then you put that on the list. But But but, well, if

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: you haven't seen it, I mean, you haven't amended it, and it's a long standing language. It's been a long standing Right. We had

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: this just the last couple of years. Yeah.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Yep. A couple.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Can That's just one clarifying question. The commissioner mentioned that we're, getting rid of the notwithstanding, which isn't what I had heard, but are we striking notwithstanding from the ninety day?

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Yeah. We got and I was saying to you all that if you remove the notwithstanding, every piece of property statue is applicable. I I notwithstanding that you had it before made it really squiggly that I didn't have to do this.

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: So it had

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: sold him the highest bidder. Set up.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: It tightened it up.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Or upon sealed bid. So it has to be the highest bidder. Ultimately, if it turned out to not be the highest bidder And if then it would be a violation of the statute. That's correct, sir. Presumably maybe. Don't know. If you

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: don't get a fair market value, I could reject them.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Yeah. Right. No report. Right. So you

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: get rid of an obvious statement. You sell it at fair market value. You need to make sure the covenants are there

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: when you advertise with the RFP. When we develop the scope of the sale. So, the

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: RFP include the fair market value?

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: No, but what I would say first of all is you don't assume it's an RP because sometimes we put scopes of projects together Would that ever that go right to the broker who then goes out and markets it

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: for Okay. So whatever vehicle you use, you want the background. So, would that include the fair market value?

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: We will have, we will determine the fair market value. I don't know if it's included or not, but it is definitely the tool for our evaluation. And so let me just share with you just back to the senator Benson's. You have a property that has a fair market value. Right? And then someone and you get bids on it. And then they do site assessments on this. This is the real world. I think all of you know this. And there's contamination. Mhmm. So, you know, you start with your with the point that you're talking about in your letter of intent or whatever it is because if they're coming back and they're gonna say, we just identified contamination and we wanna go back and figure out who's gonna pay for what, what's gonna do. That does lower to your point, senator, the sales price. But if you're gonna you know, but but you evaluate those scenarios at that time. So I just not to convoluted, but I think all of you know property transactions and the detail are they're detailed. Oh, yeah. And I think you put some very, very good parameters in statute on what we have to do. And I think we have been successful. I don't think I don't think BGS has well, we haven't sold that. You know, what we've sold, I think everything's been in alignment with statute and I think you can expect.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay so I don't think this needs to be in a list I hope because sounds like it's going to be something public, but the fair market value we would like to know that in advance. Mean that's you would be determined that or so let me ask you a question. At what point in your process do you determine the fair market value? Because I

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: would think you would do it before we advertise and we would do it before we put it out and you know, and I think we still have a little bit of time, a little bit of ways to go on this particular project. And and I think we've talked about it several times regarding what are we gonna have to do with FEMA? How do we prepare the building? What is the impact of that? What does that look like? So, yes, all of that information, you know, yes, but exactly when I'm not sure because do we do it today or do we do because right now the fair market value is going be this.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I would do it later today. So, is that public information? The fair market value? I I I mean, do I need to put it in a list? No. Okay. Good. That's just one to check.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: And and so I I, you know, I apologize to the committee. I really trust my organization, and I trust the statute. And I feel like you feel like we're doing something that we're not gonna do, and that is a little uncomfortable, madam chair. So if there's something that you're concerned about, I would like to address it.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. This information addresses it.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Okay. So I'm not clear. Where are we? They're not doing the chairs being notified of the final contract before before it's signed.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: It looks like it's going to be different language. Right. But I'll ask the attorney.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Yes. Yes. Do we in concept support what is being proposed?

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: I do have one more question about the first refusal. I think it was point number four. I don't know enough about how that works and so let's say we do sell it to some outside entity and we then, I suppose, would have first refusal if they chose to resell it. How far into perpetuity does that go? Right? They resell it

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: to That's go a good question. Yeah, thought you were gonna ask more about the process because normally you would, you would, it's not intended to be that the state would have a benefit or be able to get it at a lower price. The state would have to pay fair value. So that's the intent. But it's just to give the state a chance to get that property back because it is

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: And then say we pass on that and it goes to somebody else and the second owner after us.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Just for fifty years. But that's an obvious question. That's big idea, but I don't think it can be.

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Okay.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah. Thank you.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Good question. Do

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: you have one on my end, Oscar?

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: No. No. So I won't be here negotiating it. No. I mean, first sale when that

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: building becomes on the market for the first time, the state would have the right first refusal. Yes. So it could be thirty years down the road.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Well, and do you, the commissioner, have an opinion on how that could affect things?

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: I I mean, it's it's and I can't I don't I'm not aware that's ever been done. I mean, usually our inventory is there's, you know, a need. We've actually, it's always been the opposite. The state buys property to be lot of property that we bought was to save something in a in a community or whatever. So I can't think of anything. I can't speak on behalf of the administration because I haven't talked to them about this. I don't know what it means to obligate future purchases but I'll let you all work with your attorney on that. But in the way

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: that I would think it would happen would be the obligation would be on that owner not on the state. So if the owner for some reason didn't tell the state that would be there that would be there.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: They share it be written in the contract

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: or it would be in the sale contract.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Wouldn't that be written in the sale contract?

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: I don't. This is I I think seeing the language and giving us an opportunity to make sure it makes sense would probably be beneficial. But that you know, because I don't know if you could put that in the covenant or title, but really what it's saying is somehow you want the new owner to sell it to the state of Vermont. If they're going to sell it, they have to sell it to the state of Vermont prior to putting it out into the market. And I think you need to get guidance on that.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, I mean, would

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: the owner know that? Yeah, would need to be in the contract, would need to be obvious. You would probably have a separate piece of paper that they would have to sign.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: Well, dear, again, lack of knowledge, but having that sort of a right around the contract, does that affect in any way what the what we would

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Fair market guy would I know the

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: the the properties. Yes.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: In my eye, they don't. No.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: I don't know if strategically that would hurt us.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: What's the one that was maybe a different So I think this is gonna take more work in terms of legal background. What I would what what I would propose is we talk to our legal counsel about this.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: And I'd

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: like And you talk to your legal counsel. We come back first thing tomorrow.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: I'm gonna have to have something. I mean, is it will there be some draft language that we could be more prone to at least look at? I mean, I can try it. First of I'm not gonna get ahold of anyone.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: It would be tomorrow morning. I think I think we all need some legal advice on this. Yeah. And I want to be open as possible, but I understand the confidentiality of when you're negotiating a contract regardless of what that contract is. Sure. And so the state on a resale of a building, the new owners put it up on market, for the state to have a right of first refusal, I don't know if we've

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: ever So it would be a fair market value for right of first refusal, and you'd want that in the contract.

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: So you end up in the deed.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Or in the deed, yeah. And that's where the covenants are too.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So if we go I just think we need more legal backup on

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: both We do. Yeah. That's what Yeah. We can be I mean,

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: so if this gets accepted, where are you on the the zeroing out the tech support? That's a long letter. Yeah.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Since we have time, I'd like to talk to Neil about this. All right. He said, but that's less valuable to me than the language. Okay.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So I think that's as far as we can go tonight. Okay. Right? So gonna talk Yeah.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: It's gonna be hard to find. So you have a 09:30. You have a nine no. Have an 8 and a nine.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: And we're available.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah. Can we do that? I mean, we're we're on the floor at ten, so I don't wanna I don't wanna do seven. So

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: do do not

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: We need legal counsel. Right. Right now. They need to do so. So what

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: we can do is I can be available and I can provide you the legal information and we can stop making decisions and then we can, get back.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Can legal counsel be here tomorrow when we need to go up and we must do Britain.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So But, also, but Rob Rob is a Hippolytian.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: What time can you not be here? What time

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: I have Elkhart at eight at nine, and I just meeting pretty quickly. Meeting at nine would make sense. I don't necessarily have to be here at the beginning.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Are you available at nine?

[Representative Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: I'm available at nine.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Can we

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: get John Oh, Ray by

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: so between nine and 09:30, you're okay.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Alright. That's fine. Can we get at least John Gray to talk to us?

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: I believe so. We'll let him confirm.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And then I I

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: I mean, I I need to reach out. I'm not sure it'll be, but, you know, I

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So we really need to figure that out. It's it's getting legal advice for both.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: From all. Right. No. If we should

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: yeah. I just don't know if I'm gonna be able

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: to have that by time. But at least we might be able to have something.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Yeah. I think I have enough to start asking questions. Yeah.

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So why don't we Okay. Shoot for 09:00, and

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: then maybe before you go on the floor, maybe you would

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: have a conversation with Dale, maybe at eight or 08:30 on the AMR piece. Yes. Same with you. Okay. Sorry. I'm gonna close this up, and these are the only outstanding items.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right. Do you wanna have a tentative for the afternoon, or just we'll play that

[Representative Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Can can we do 12:30? We should be able to do 12:30.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: As long as we're done. Yeah.

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: I mean We haven't finished. Yeah.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Don't Okay. Thank you.

[Wanda Penoli, Commissioner of Buildings and General Services]: Thank

[Senator John Benson (Member)]: you. Yeah. John speaking. The iceberg.

[Senator Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah. So let's have a talk. Okay. Good. Good. Good.