Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Speaker 0]: Okay, today is Friday, 04/10/2026. This is Senate Institutions and we have two or three items that we're going to look at today. H952, which is the capital bill. So we're focusing on that today and yesterday and Drake's coming week. And then we're also going to hear from the agency of administration about the the April 8 letter so that we can ask some more questions and understand exactly what their position So we will start with Joe Major of BGS. Thank you for being here, Joe. And we're interested in section three of the technical bills. Do you need screen share?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yeah. It's it's it's.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Alright.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Good afternoon. For the record, I'm Joe Major, director of design and construction for buildings and general services. We're here today, as you said, kind of trick, but section three, specifically on the door controls. And what I brought up here now is the door controls for the Northern Northeast State Correctional Facility in the Caledonia Community Work Camp, and that's in Saint John's Building. That is the our third project out of all the facilities. Next up would be Rutland. And I'm showing on the screen here have the appropriations to date, what we have asked for, and this was not touched by the house. So we're getting the 2,600,000.0 in bond funds. The Northeast Regional Correctional Facility and the work camp, this project is estimated at 9,500,000.0. What comes up next is in proposal we had statewide door control. We actually put in there instead of naming a site. This would allow us the flexibility to use the funds at the main site as it comes along and the likes of that. So what we're looking at here is a request of 2,700,000.0 is what we had, requested in cash, and the house has reallocated 2,000,000 of that. We've got 700,000. And as I said earlier, we were looking at the $9,500,000 project. This would leave us short. And the problem being with that, we're gonna short is the fact that we're not going be able to start the project. It's not where we're starting because of the cost that would be would be incurred by the contractor who's sitting there waiting until we have the additional funding. Because this is a long, almost a year long project. So it will be going in, the ongoing, but the problem is some of these are long lead items. The locks are, some of the doors, doors are out there. And right now we are actually we have a construction manager on board. There's actually a pre construction meeting going pre bid meeting going on and we're out to bid. We continue with that, even though I knew that the house had removed reallocated some of the funds. For the main reasons, we'll actually get some real pricing. And the construction manager thought at the same time also that, you know, that would also be worthwhile. And so we'll see. So we're gonna do that in three weeks or so. We'll have an active price. But depending on what that price is, we probably will not start because they don't have enough funds to complete this project. So we'll delay it for six to eight months. We won't start it up because then that'll be taking us into the next biennium where we ask you for additional funds to complete the project.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Go.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Thank you, madam chair. But, I guess my my first question is, is it currently hindering operations at at all? The the the door.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: The the functioning of the doors? Yes. Yes. That's why we're doing this. Some of the doors, we have to weld some of the locks. We searched eBay to get parts, stuff like that.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Obviously, this is needed yesterday. Yes. And and what was the house's meeting for?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I I don't know.

[Speaker 0]: K. Yes.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: I think that I don't think that they really saw that that was what the project was gonna be and that that's how much money was needed. Mhmm. I think that they only saw that. They just they they saw the dollar amounts that had already been allocated, and I don't know that they really grasped that it was a $9,600,000 project. I see. That's what I got out of, Alice's testimony excuse me. That's, just respectful to the the chair of, house, institutions, the amount of chairs. I don't Yeah. Did not I just didn't hear her saying that that was the that they understood that that was what the project was gonna cost. And so they're going to start

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: to write it out. I think she had indicated me there were two projects, but that the two projects together were less than from the money that you still had not used was that they talked to us about they had about you've supposedly had about 7,000,000, and that was less than the two projects, but I don't think they knew or grasped this other project. It's the way I guess I would understand it here.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. If I may. So I'm looking at what was given to the house during their markup regarding this project. It's a little bit of a different it's the not this one, but

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: the prior one we were just looking at.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Yeah? Yes. The chart's a little

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: It is. I updated it because of, the reallocation of funds and also showing the unexpected funds.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So it was So What was presented is different. Okay. So what they had, which was March something, March, had only about 300,000 expended. And now we have,

[Scott Moore, Joint Fiscal Office]: hang on a second.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Now we have a about 150,000 is unexpended. So that would mean something like close to $4,000,000 was spent in the last And

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: that's bringing the construction manager on board and to having everything in alignment to get the bids in and start that working. So there's a although it was only roughly a month, month and a half, that time delay is when things do happen. Okay.

[Speaker 0]: So say that again? 4,000,000?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yeah. We had to get in the contract executed and in place with our construction manager. I think at the time that that had not happened, so these funds now have been encumbered and worse, they're within the balance of the funds to come in. And and then once the job starts, we'll be paying our invoices. And insurance had said that they did not heard about the contract. Alright.

[Speaker 0]: So that's not something that I mean if you had if you didn't tell the house that they would know it.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I don't recall if I did tell the house that by testimony maybe that we don't have a contract yet with the construction manager, but it was in the works.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: And I do have just another question. So the, the request for, to be done.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Seven.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Sorry, Bennington. Yeah. So we have, do you want to So I guess looking at section three, the request is for statewide door controls, and is it I I suppose this would mean that you would not be able to essentially kind of move money around from one project to another, in section three.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Well, that was the intent when the statewide hurricane current project hit, about when we witnessed we went in for 02/2007. Because up further in line, Row 24, there's the Marble Valley one. Yeah. And when they're putting the cap on the other side of that, you know, just having door control in correction was more than enough as opposed to labeling each site. And in that way, just there aren't any remitting funds, it just goes on to the next project.

[Speaker 0]: So can you go back to the beginning of the door controls because you did them at Springfield, right? That was a

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: couple years ago.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes. Northern State Resolution in Newport was done first. Mhmm. We completed also Southern State Resolution facility and Saint Johnsbury, the Northeast Regional, and the Caledonia Work Camp are up next after that for construction.

[Speaker 0]: So I'm sorry. Say again, which one do you complete?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Southern State facility and Northern State Correctional Facility. Just Two facilities are completed.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. And then now we're working on

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: St. John's within Northeast Mhmm. Regional correct correctional facility and the Caledonia Community Forest. Yeah.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. And those are the ones that you just contracted for?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes.

[Speaker 0]: Like in the last month?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes. Do

[Speaker 0]: we have a total for all of these? Are we looking at that? Are we tracking that?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Total for all sites?

[Speaker 0]: This

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: here is only for what is being requested for the St. Johnsbury facility.

[Speaker 0]: But it's the same systems, right?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Correct. It's the same, bid system, door control system, camera system.

[Speaker 0]: How have the ones that you have put in working? How are they working?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: They're working. They appeared not to have any issues. But the only problem that we may have is the new force coming up on five years old, and it's gonna be ready for a software update. Mhmm. Computers are a wonderful company.

[Speaker 0]: Right. And then we pay for that. It's a a subscription?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes.

[Speaker 0]: Okay.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: But the ones they've had, as far as I know, they have no issues.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. So you have I'm sorry. So

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: obviously, this is a big change from a recommendation of what the House is recommending. And I sort of focused on the last line of this slide to be used as needed, and and you don't know what would be needed? Not until

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: the bids come in. Okay. And then once the job is over in construction manager projects, if any savings on the project, the contractor's gonna do when they have allowances and the likes of that, all that gets returned to the state. So any of those funds that are left over, we will then put forth towards the Marble Valley facility.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: And so you can't say that all of that money will be used for the fiscal year? Correct.

[Speaker 0]: Yes.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: But I would guess, since you're doing this, that you're using the same basic package at each facility, and you've got two of them underway right now, you should have a pretty good idea of what you're estimating the cost is gonna be.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes, but no. The problem with that is that the other two facilities, they were already pneumatic lot.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: the V here in St. Johnsboro is 110 volt, so it has to be changed out. And part of that problem is that we've, with 110 volt, you have electrician to actually work in the logs. So if we go to not a low voltage lock, anybody can replace a lock and it's plugged in. You just plug the ends in, but because of the higher voltage, that's a problem. So each site has its nuances. All the doors and the frames and the likes of that, how they function are not the same. And, like, Newport and Springfield are substantially larger than this facility.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Of course, you said a day before three weeks, so

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: we can't wait for it.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: And that's it's timing. So I I if you might have said this earlier. We talked about the the delay would be six to eight months, but what is what is the timeline for, I guess, both projects right now? When if the house hadn't changed things, when would it have been expected that everything would clean it? And I know it's a semester.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I don't recall. Don't know if one of

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: your legs, grade 27. Okay. It was all we were working for. Okay.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: The other thing and this is a this is just a question you might not be able to answer is when BGS has a project where they've got funds to do with capital or wherever, and then you all essentially run out of money when we're not here, Is there a mechanism for finding the other money? My thought goes to the e board. But Right.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: The the first step is the contingency funds and planning where you're using contingency. Okay. That can be used up to a $100,000. So that's first step. Okay. And then second would be then going to the e board and then what we do there is to,

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: you know, look through

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: the projects here that aren't that far along and take

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: the mic to that. And

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: that's what the E4 is. Yes. Yeah.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Thank you for being for teaching the E4. Okay.

[Scott Moore, Joint Fiscal Office]: If I may, madam chair.

[Speaker 0]: Yes.

[Scott Moore, Joint Fiscal Office]: This is Scott Moore, joint fiscal office. One of the discussion items upstairs was giving BGS the flexibility to move money around in between sections if it's a BGS related project as well, in the instance that that may happen. Right now, there's a mechanism in place that if there is that they could go to the section administration and ask for some of that as well as e

[Speaker 0]: is a mechanism now?

[Scott Moore, Joint Fiscal Office]: Yeah, like as Joe was saying, can go to e board and have money to look around, but part of the upstairs conversation was to give BGS more flexibility to be able to look things for the event of obvious something happens really bad money.

[Speaker 0]: On their own, using still what is BGS really good money.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Right now the commissioner does have the authority to move inside of the funds inside of the section. Okay. And then so some of these are appropriated for BGS, some are not made. These here with corrections.

[Speaker 0]: All right. So in theory, do have the ability to move.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: We do, but then, you know, that's potentially cuts into another.

[Speaker 0]: Now. So so we have the door control on line 20 4 for Marble Valley and on 25 for Saint John's Bay but then we have addition.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Did

[Speaker 0]: you combine those into the is that what you were saying?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: That is what's being done when this was put together, is that instead of labeling each site separately, it's just going forward now, it will be door control. So that's why we have the third line instead of putting some money towards Marble Valley and or all of the money towards Saint Johnsbury and other money to Marble Valley this way. It's by just naming a door control, there is no requirement for the commissioner to weigh in and move money. It's already right there. Mhmm.

[Speaker 0]: But the amounts were different. The totals are different when they're, alright. So 27 bonded, 200,000, no, I'm sorry. It's 3,100,000.0, right? The 2 on '24 and '25?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: And then '24, we have 500,000. Okay. And then 27 bonded, and that's for Myrtle Valley and then Saint Johnsburg.

[Speaker 0]: It'd be total It's 2.6. So that's 3.1. Right? And then no cash. So then you have 2.7 for both of them. Is that what you're saying? Yes. In cash instead of the 3.1.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Well, it has, 700,000.

[Speaker 0]: 2.7 versus 3.1. Is that accurate? So it's less, but it's e patch. And so why did you put it in cache instead of in bond? Actually, you have bonded up.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: What's the There there are some fonts in yes. For both cache and in bond, and I don't select that.

[Speaker 0]: Well, theory is bondage is supposed to be things that last a long time, and this is expected to last a long time.

[Scott Moore, Joint Fiscal Office]: Madam Chair, cannot speak for the administration, cannot speak for upstairs or downstairs, but mechanically, if you recall the cash fund was given $17,000,000 and this $2,700,000 expenditure in cash for door controls most likely just the ease of use instead of moving bonding around they added that as the ability to use that cash. And I don't want to speak to administration, but mechanically that would make sense to me. They received $17,000,000 and so where are we going to spend it? How are we going to spend it? And they chose to spend 2.7, the administration got a very long 2.7 for cash for this as opposed to try to move all the bonding around. Right. And the house chose

[Speaker 0]: But cash is supposed to be for design, things like that. That was the purpose of the triage.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Completely. It was meant to just to be used as you could have it to reduce the amount of bonding that you would ask for. The pressure that we're seeing with the state and not be able to bond enough and moving more towards the cash part of it was to keep bonding at a minimum so that you didn't pay interest over twenty years.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, my understanding is it's not exactly that and we actually do have more capacity than we're using in bonding. Right, so do we have any other questions on this one? I'm gonna want to

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: know. And

[Speaker 0]: then are you able to speak to the other items? I didn't think you would just be speaking to this. I thought you would be speaking to all of this section three.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I'm able to do it right here on the screen here. We have Northern State Crusher Facility, the boiler replacement, where past years and this year, 1,000,000 was reallocated this year for out of cash. And then back in '25,

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: a million dollars was reallocated.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: This project here is also connected sort of to the stormwater. As you can see on the screen up here, there are two little ponds on sort of left side of the site plan. And many under the stormwater project, they're going to be have to be enlarged because the amount, when they were first constructed, they were undersized, and we're now enlarging those. However, when we looked at starting the heat plant, the best location to do the heat plant is that fair orange or direct rectangle almost left of center on that site plan. And the turning radius of the 18 wheelers that would be pulling in and out would impact the wetlands. So we've been working, with a wetland designer along with a heat plant designer to try and have an and and how to best relocate these ponds, make them large enough and work. We believe we have a resolution. So now what they're looking to do is move forward with permitting, the stormwater project and get these ponds the right size and the right location. And we are hoping to complete the design and have our permits in place for storm water fall and hopefully we can get a contractor on-site through Scharner relocating these ponds so that in the springtime we could get going on the boiler project. The boiler itself and the red iron for the building is probably about four to six month item by the time you get your shop drawings in place, get it ordered. And so that's a critical timing thing of, like, the boiler itself. When that arrives at the job site, you wanna be able get that right inside the you create it right inside the building. So it's really one of those things that if we don't have enough funds to do this, again, this project also would be delayed. There is some thought, that we considered is what instead of doing the wetlands first, we did the boiler project first and then the wetlands afterwards. And that's being considered the problem with that that we are looking at is that we may complete the heat plant, the boilers, we wouldn't be able to use them until the storm water project is complete. So right now, oops, right about that. What we have going on is they are using chunk wood right now to heat along with oil. Once this goes into place, a considerable amount of their wood storage would go away, and part of this project is also to demo the existing wood boilers. So their timing wise, I don't want to, I don't want to pull out the wood boilers before we're done using them. So it's just one of those things that I haven't worked out a complete schedule yet to know how it would work. But it's one of the ones that we might just have to go on burning oil for several months to six months until we have the storm water part completed. So it's two separate projects on the same site working together and having short ponds makes that even more difficult because now I'm going to start our boiler project later than anticipated.

[Speaker 0]: So so the boiler is in the, orange Yes. Rectangle? Yeah. And that's the existing boiler and the new boiler are both going to be in No. That

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Just the new wood chip boiler will go in there. It'll be wood chipped, boiler in storage for wood chips, and then there'll be pumps and then two water lines running to the far right hand side of the screen to where the what's known as the A 2 Building where the existing boilers and boiler room is, it will connect on.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Down to the right?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Straight across. Go straight across in or roughly from that orange building straight across in where you get into A 2. And that's where the existing boiler room is.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. So you have to you wanna connect or you wanna be close?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes. Yeah. We we looked at putting the boiler plant along the post road and everything else, and this ends up being the best location closest to the building so that we're not running a lot of heat pipes across completely across the entire property.

[Speaker 0]: And then you call those wetlands, and then you also call them ponds.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Well, they

[Speaker 0]: They don't look like

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: it's true that that's they're retaining ponds. Okay. So they're capturing the parking lot and what you can't see on the screen is there's an echo parking lot and any of that runoff goes into those ponds first.

[Speaker 0]: And so you are compliant now?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: No, we're not compliant. We have that storm water project also that's going on, and we will end up paving the post road around the entire facility because that actually will reduce our footprint some as opposed to the gravel road that is there because as they spread sand and fill the potholes over time, the road also becomes a little wider. So we thought if we picked it, it'll stay within the confines of the paved surface and we'll be better off. And that helps us out with our stormwater. That's interesting.

[Speaker 0]: Do you have ditches by the road?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes. There's a there's a swell, between the fence and the road, and then, oh, swells. It's it's it's this section of it is more of a dish than it is a swale.

[Speaker 0]: Yes.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: But, yes, and then some of that site, as you come from the the angle towards the bottom of the page, is actually quite steep and drops off. The other side of the facility, you don't need any swale or ditch, it just runs right down the bank.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, help the blade to a appropriate place.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Further down there's still more areas to catch the stonewall. Great.

[Speaker 0]: So your issue with this one, the financial issue is that it went from 2,000,000 to 1,000,000?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes.

[Speaker 0]: Okay.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: And there's still, we are requesting that we'll begin in '28, There'll be another $2,000,000 request, and this would just be it up to 3,000,000 if you don't have the funds for the later start than anticipated. No different than some of these projects that have been reallocated that we need to funds for and reduce our '28 as because these projects won't

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Be in there. Do anybody have questions? And I I wanna before I make this decision, I wanna go back and see what the chairs said So about

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I have nothing more on the slideshow.

[Speaker 0]: Did you all talk yesterday about the youth stabilization facility? Or is that something that you can talk you can speak to Joe?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes. Know, I'm we're

[Speaker 0]: Yeah. I'm just I'm just looking at the highlighted items under section three. Okay.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: For the stabilization, what we're doing now is we are we have a contractor on board. We don't have an executed contract yet. These funds here are to move forward with the design, have the design in place. And at the end of the design, do the math on what it would take to actually lease that building. So I think it's time we have an an estimate, be able to put the paperwork together for what the lease cost would would be, the operational cost, and whether or not that can be afforded to the

[Speaker 0]: And where Is there an existing one? I don't think there is. Right?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: There right now, there's a temporary unit down in Middlesex that have has four beds. This is 14 bed facility.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. So and that's the one that we've cited a couple years ago?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: We looked at going to Virgins. Yes.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, so this is 14 beds. Correct. Do you have a location?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: We do, but because I don't have a contract yet, I can't say that.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, and you're doing this in concert with the Department of Mental Health?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yes, They're they're at the meetings. And so what we're looking to do is to, like I said, get our design done and then go to the lease model. And so these funds here are to work on creating a design.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Who who does or this is the kind of thing where we need public we need public support generally because we don't need public opposition. Right? So who does that in your I mean, just I mean, we don't know where it is when it comes out.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Well, it's like Who knows? Right. You know, it's like going

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: to be us.

[Speaker 0]: Well, not necessarily. Mean sometimes

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Yes, necessarily.

[Speaker 0]: Well, sometimes departments have, good explanations and can explain why it's at a certain place, how it's gonna rule ours.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: It would be through us. We would we would advocate for whatever. Possibly. Yeah. Yeah.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah. No. We're we're part of the process, but you are y'all are proposing it and design it.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Yeah. And it's like we we proposed going to Virginia's, and that sort of got because of the nuance that they had early on in the project before we even had approval that they were gonna change their zoning. Very similar to the women's facility in Essex Junction, the two properties that we owned in Essex. If I may,

[Scott Moore, Joint Fiscal Office]: madam chair, for the record, Cole Bardi of the BGS, this is one of the items that Commissioner Mornolli would like to discuss next week.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. Good. Thank you. And then the Wi Fi installation.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I defer to corrections on. Okay. Don't any information on that.

[Speaker 0]: And I think on the women's reentry, unless you wanna say something, I don't expect you to be our main source on that because there's nothing to construct yet as far

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: as I've been correct.

[Speaker 0]: And you were the implementation

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: We had gone out to bid from land. We received one bid. We had two proposals in that one bid.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Okay.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: But it has to be analyzed and we go from there.

[Speaker 0]: So one's better than none.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: That is very true.

[Speaker 0]: Good. 100%. Just

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: follow-up or just summarize at the end here, Joe, as I understand what you've just told us is with the amount of money that is in the house's version, you would not move forward with the door lock, project.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Correct, I would postpone executing

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: a guaranteed maximum price to start the And then the second piece, I think I heard you say on the Newport project, would you start that project or you wouldn't start that project with the change that's here?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: It would be similar, would defer.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Wait another year before you would start that?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Maybe not another year, but probably another, you know, six months. It's all about that timing. I have to get the permit for my storm water, and I'll know a lot more at that point in time.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: I understand, I understand if we leave the monies the way they are, how does that affect the Thank project's

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: you.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Alright. Any other questions? That sounds very good. Thank you.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Thanks for being here. You're welcome.

[Speaker 0]: Stay in town next week.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I had you playing in a tank,

[Speaker 0]: so so it's pretty.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: I'm on vacation

[Speaker 0]: right now.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: I wish.

[Speaker 0]: Thank you.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Don't go too far

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: in here. Okay.

[Speaker 0]: So thank you, Deputy Commissioner. And so we have you on both section three and on another item, but that you can put them together if you like.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah, and for the record, Halbert, Deputy Commissioner of Corrections. It's Ziguel again. So I think you wanted to talk about door controls, boiler, women's facility, and Wi Fi. Is that accurate? Yes. Sure. So I think Joe summarized pretty well that the door control project, we're kind of implementing a lot of workarounds to make that operationally feasible, and it's a pretty critical security function for us. So as far as the reduction that's been proposed, we wouldn't support that. The cost would grow every year and that's pretty detrimental to our operations.

[Speaker 0]: So let me just say, it would be really helpful to have just an explanation of how the other door control projects went, how long it took, and then where you are on these and what the schedule because it seems like it's mostly scheduling.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah, unfortunately Joe would be the best to talk about the scheduling.

[Speaker 0]: Well, I'm not saying talk about it, I'm saying just give us a one page summary because when we talk about bonding, something that is just interesting to me is we don't go out and bond every year. So it isn't as if there's a process to that. The bonds are collected over a number of years. The allocations are collected over a number of years and then the treasure goes out to bond. So I'm not, not, I don't see that it's necessarily a difference in your operations. How the money goes. Well, I can talk to some, we'll talk

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: to other folks. Okay, great. So you'd like a summary of just-

[Speaker 0]: Just finding it and what the- Well, what actually happened with the two buildings that we already did and if you're using the same contractor, it's likely it would be similar. If you're getting a new contract from the same company, I'd like to see the price differentials. I mean, especially there probably aren't that many companies who do this. So we want to make sure we're getting good price and I know you want that, but just more detail because the bonding versus cash, know is important in one world, but then in the practical world, it's not as important. It's not as consequential. Sure. Thank you. Yeah, it'd be more difficult. Absolutely.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Anything else on door controls?

[Speaker 0]: You know, actually, suggest. The fee for the software, I'd like to know that price because that's somewhere where customers get taken advantage of,

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah, understood. We need to make

[Speaker 0]: sure that's included at the end. Thank you. Okay,

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: boiler replacement. Joe, I think, summarized that project well, the intersection with the storm water piece. I will say that facility is either way too cold or way too hot, and we're all familiar with Vermont winters, and then certainly being up in the Northeast Kingdom, it's a little bit colder. So we tend to run that facility very hot in the winter, which then just increases overall cost for us, and it's difficult to work in those kinds of environments and live in those environments. Just wanting to raise that reduction, just continuing not only delaying construction and those rising costs, but also our operational costs throughout the year, the longer that's not moving

[Speaker 0]: forward. How does we, this committee, a few years ago, actually the first year I was on it, we talked about how hot those facilities can get in the summer. And we actually put money for cooling. It seems like that hasn't happened in a

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: meaningful way. Yeah, it's been staged. So, think there's money in this bill or we're working through funding we received over the last couple of years. I can have Joe give an update on where the facilities are at, and I think we're close to completion or if not complete at southern. Oh, good. And then we have the next kind of facility staged in a progressive manner, including some cooling areas while we're waiting to get to those other facilities. So there's some relief for staff Yeah. Military folks in the meantime on that building.

[Speaker 0]: Good. That would be good to have that information.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Sure. Yes.

[Speaker 0]: Because that's really important.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: We have temporary air conditioning in Southern State in the New York.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. And it's it's just in the common areas, right? Correct.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: The insurgent or the truck.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah. So that's

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: We have contracts in place, and we'll be starting work this summer in Southern State and in Newport. And if there's enough funding in the end, we might even be able to start in Saint Johnsbury.

[Speaker 0]: Okay.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: We're anticipating that. But if there's enough funding, that project will also be going

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: forward. So

[Speaker 0]: Okay. So understanding that schedule would be good too. And how long it'll take?

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: About a year or year or half. Depends on which facility you're at.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. To actually be functional and the Yes. Cells Okay, good. Thanks.

[Joe Major, Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services (BGS)]: Believe me, everything will have air conditioned everything. Newport and Springfield will have air conditioned '18, '27. Okay.

[Speaker 0]: Alright. You should put that on. Yeah. I like it without the. Like, if they will, it will happen in morning.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Alright.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Great. So the next item was facility Wi Fi. This is a project we've been working on since about 2022. The department paid for and completed with a heat mapping of each of our facilities to understand what equipment was needed and where. At that point, it stalled out due to not being

[Speaker 0]: able to

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: get funding and then fast forward to flooding, etcetera. We had made an attempt with the Vermont Community Broadband Board to secure funding, but because of their other projects, they weren't able to operate at that point. We have since reengaged with them and are anticipating some updated guidance from the feds about what the unexpended funds can be used for, and so we're continuing to engage with them on that. We do have an updated quote from ADS. It's very preliminary, and I think that's where this 3,000,000 came in, But there's still quite a bit of work to do with the security assessment and some kind of a digital needs assessment. So as far as funding this year, it's not needed, and so we would be able to support it as proposed here for a change. But I think in the bill, there is a report aspect to it and a check-in with Joint Justice over the summer. We're more than willing to do that as we continue that work with AES.

[Speaker 0]: So what we have now in the House recommended is 1,250,000.00, right?

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: I think that's for the Wood Mets facility.

[Speaker 0]: Oh, I'm sorry. That's okay. Okay, that's fine. Okay, so the Wi Fi installation, 3,000,000? Correct. And did you say you, you said you had a quote.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah, it's a very preliminary quote and one of the critical factors of that that's not fully fleshed out is the actual wiring. And we have not been able to engage PGS on that portion. Still very underdeveloped at this point, still progressing, but we're just not in a place yet where we would need the money this July to move forward.

[Speaker 0]: So, what is the cost? It's right about 3,200,000.0.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Part of that is an estimate. It also would have a base funding pressure built in, which is not contemplated in the current budget. A base budget pressure. Base budget. Yeah, there would be an ongoing fee annually that would incur, that's not part of the current gov rack, and it's just not a fully fledged quote at this point. Uh-huh.

[Speaker 0]: So, you don't anticipate having it in the facility?

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: No, we won't be able, we weren't ready to move on yet.

[Speaker 0]: But, yeah. And that's another thing that, yeah, we've been just talking about.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Just to follow-up on that, we're not obviously in a position to go to construction, but is there a need for any funds to continue the planning effort?

[Speaker 0]: I don't think so.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: It's all being done in house at this point. There might be later on, but I would have to understand that better from ABS if there was a need to reengage a contractor for heat mapping or things of that nature, but we're just not at that point.

[Speaker 0]: And that's for all of the facilities, the one that Correct.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah. Just to clarify, be in the secure portions of the facilities. We already have it in the admin units or the admin area of the building. Right. Couple of visitation rooms we have it in just that we were trying to enhance language access. So there's a couple spaces that we're enhancing, which also makes the heat mapping a little bit different than it was four years ago.

[Speaker 0]: Actually getting back to that base, so did you calculate that for the facility, the door controls too?

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: We have not.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, because that needs to be there too. It's just, that's everywhere.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yes. Okay.

[Speaker 0]: Alright. So any other questions on that? And then, so the replacement women's facility, the 1.2.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah. That's just not needed at this point. As Joe said, there was an RFP issued. We got, it sounds like, two bids in one response. We haven't been able to review that yet to see if it's feasible, or either of them are feasible. We have about $15,000,000 already, so we're hoping that if we can move on anything in this next year, that those funds would carry us through. We're certainly nowhere near putting a shovel in the ground, and we do still have some design work and more collaboration to be had with VGS on where it would be, etcetera.

[Speaker 0]: So, what's the plan to raise the funding for the entire facility?

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: I'm hoping there'll be a request put forward next year that has a much better laid out plan as far as getting money stashed away, as we're looking to develop that over the next several months.

[Speaker 0]: Because we did have, there was a possibility of Essex work. What would you have done if Essex was amenable to this?

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah, think people have seen a larger funding request, and then we would start engaging to my folks, there's permitting also, sorts of other work that would have been prior.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: So honestly, $1,200,000 would go a lot of good to other places in this bill versus just parking it for where it's not even needed. The company, it may not be at this point in time towards that project.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Mhmm. If I'm not mistaken, it probably would need an additional 85,000,000 to because you got 15 now. Am I?

[Speaker 0]: 100. I'll take a 100. Yeah. People are saying. Yeah. Yeah. That yeah. But also, again, with the bonding, you know, that's one reason that you bond is so that you don't have to gather all the funding. That's part of the point. Okay. All right, again, I wasn't here yesterday when the house came and talked about it, I want to know more about what they decided or why they decided this. Okay. So we can I don't know if you have anything else to say because we have you under section three and then we have just general capital construction and state bonding adjustment?

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah, don't think there's anything else for us in there. Okay.

[Speaker 0]: Alright. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Something totally not on this, you guys have a new website, and I've got a couple people asking me that the incarcerated people's locator isn't working on that.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Okay. We did just upgrade that, so appreciate you. Okay. We're that

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: It wasn't working last night. Working today. We have Thank you. Quite a few people in law enforcement that count on that, and some people a lot of people in the press live off of that.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: So Certainly.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Just hoping that that is back to the running soon.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: Yeah. I'll check on that right now. Thank you. Appreciate that.

[Speaker 0]: Well, that's presumably good that you'll have a new website.

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: It is good. Yeah. Well, it will be good. Think when it's

[Speaker 0]: The intent is working,

[Deputy Commissioner of Corrections (name unclear)]: but I'll follow-up on that and I'll Alright.

[Speaker 0]: Thank you. Great. Thank you. Okay.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: So,

[Speaker 0]: let us take a brief adjourn frequently, and I don't know when Nick Kramer will be here, but he'll be here two or 02:30. This is fine. So