Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And are you with World?

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: I'm with Action Circles.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Alright.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And are you

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Here's, like, a term memory, not a vacuum source.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: From where I did work. Yes. It did. The echo.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: My computer popped up saying he was live.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Hey. Are you

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: There's, a character out of action. From what I already did work.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: It does look like we're live.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Thank you very much.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. So welcome. We have a little bit of IT challenges and now echo that I hope will go away. This is Thursday, 03/26/2026 and it's Senate institutions. We had two things on our agenda. We're just going to do the first one, which is to have a walk through on H559 and act relating to the parole board. And good timing. Okay. So, we have representative Will Ferrier, who is the reporter of the bill, and I think you

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: know everybody. Yes, hi everyone. Let's see. Thank you, Madam Chair. Do you want me to walk through section by section or just give

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: a little give us a general introduction. Yeah.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: So I think Hillary will do a better job of going line by line, but pretty much the logistics of the bill is we made additional requirements for training and trying to beef that up essentially. We have some appropriations in here that we were able to figure out from our end. Most of it's carried forward from the previous fiscal year. And then I'm trying to remember the $25,000. I'm sorry. We were doing capital bills, I'm kind of like in a different world for right now. But we also had $25,000 that we used for pretrial funding as well because we're gonna pivot from that slightly and not do what the governor's recommended was entirely done. So that's where the 75,000 was funded. I'm trying to just make sure I've we we did make changes to the to the composition of the board. We took away the two alternate positions, and we turned them into full board members. That's not gonna change the way their assignments are done. So the seven members will still do an equal rotation, but since they kind of all do the work, we're just clarifying that. And let's see. We did put some additional language in there around the pilot projects as well, which that's where the funding manuals were likely to. But, again, just trying to if that's trying to even get their to have some independent legal counsel services. So that I think pretty much sounds sounds it. Okay. Miller, do you wanna jump in now? Or

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Well, she will. So let's let's see if we have any questions. Yeah.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: I can do my best. Hi, Will. Good to see you. Hi. My only question is where did the idea for this conference to begin with? Because it's Fermi Pearl Award. It was from constituent was from a Yep. So representative and then state introduced the bill. I believe it was in consultation with the plural board over the summer and fall. I'm not quite certain if I've got that accurate, but I believe so. That answers my question. Yes.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. And you all worked with the Pearl, Cory?

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Yes, we did. Mary Jane was there with us throughout it all.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. Terrific. Well, you. Are there any other questions? So, yes, please finish your work on Capital Building. Yes.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Well, we just finished, so that's how I was like, wrapped it up. Yes. We'll send it on over to you guys. I'll stay just to be here to answer questions, but I felt like that was a pretty brief summary. I know time is precious.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: That's exactly what we need. Thank you.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Thank you very much. Perfect. I'm still available.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Oh, yep. Thank you. Alright.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: For the record, Hillary Cheddar Ames, the absolute legislative counsel. Do I

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: have permission to shoot her speaker? Yes, please. Thank you.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Alright. We have h five fifty nine as passed by the house. As representative Greer mentioned, this bill does four main things, Make some changes relating to improving the training of the parole board. It makes some changes related to the composition of the board and how they're selected. It creates a pilot project for external legal counsel for the parole board, And it adds some process and reporting requirements related to parole board budgeting previous in two fiscal years. So those are not the four main things to look out for, but I'll go ahead and walk through each section of the bill. So the first changes in section one, this is a section entitled 28 that outlines several responsibilities of the corrections commissioner relating to parole. This adds a subdivision six regarding training. So you'll see at the cost of the bill that it provides for extended training for the parole board. This ensures that the responsibility for providing the training is listed in the commissioner's responsibilities. Note that it's done in collaboration with the parole board director and the chair of the parole board. I think as you'll see and hear, there's some tensions in that the parole board's an independent entity making decisions about parole, but their budget is within DOC. And in terms of the statutes, they are in title 28. So there's some interaction with DOC there. May I ask just Yes. Of course. So the commissioner in this case? DOC commissioner. Clinicians. Yes.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Hey.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: And training will be related to relevant topics from the CORL board, so criminogenic behavior, mental health disorders, substance use treatment, trauma is born and with victims of crime, and serious crime being a physician. Moving forward to section two, this section covers the composition of the board. So there are a couple changes that h five fifty nine would make. As Will mentioned, currently, are five regular members and two alternative members of the parole board. This changes actually seven regular members to reflect how the parole board actually works, as I understand it, and that it was kind of regularly rotated through all of those members. No changes to their terms. In subdivision two, this is page two, lines three through 10, there are a few changes made regarding appointment of parole board members. So it does not change the fact that as of the current law, the governor appoints parole board members, but it does provide that when the governor is notified on vacancy, the governor shall consult with the parole board director and the chair of the parole board. The idea being to get an understanding of what kinds of knowledge or experience might be needed now that someone is leaving the board. So it also adds language on lines nine through 10 that as far as practicable, the governor shall appoint test members, persons with knowledge of these relevant topics, criminogenic behavior, mental health treatment, substance use disorder, or serious crime rehabilitation, and shall give considerations as far as practicable to geographic representation of the state in a balance of different knowledge and experience. So the governor's already required to consider geographic diversity. This would add a kind of knowledge and experience diversity consideration. And the changes on line six through seven, or I guess six through eight, are just updating the language that we use currently regarding these kinds of topics. So not intended to be a particularly substantive change, just updating language. Okay. Any changes about that going forward? Any personal statements? So,

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: gonna be seven regular members 200. Yes.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: From now on. Right now,

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: there are five members and two alternates. Correct.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Is there a provision for two alternates Yeah. To be

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: appointed as members. Interesting.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: We did not discuss that, so I'm happy to look into that. I know we're sensitive about time or No. Hunch of time this afternoon.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: No, that was a perfectly good answer.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: We also have the director of the parole work here who may also be able to answer that. So, I will get to it, but it may involve some asking Mary Jane right after this. Moving forward, the changes in subdivision three, so this is page two, lines 14 through 17. This is just removing language about assignment of alternates. So now that the statute is only talking about regular members, we don't need this other language about how alternates are assigned. The final substantive change in this section, in section two, is on page three, line seven through nine. This adds subsection d, and now we're at trainings. So at least annually, each member of the parole board shall attend trainings designated by the parole board director in collaboration with the chair of the parole board. Can we go back to Silu? Yes.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Line 18 on bigger page. For a quorum, wouldn't it be over?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So the way that statutes currently work is that one BSA one seventy two sets the default of a quorum, but a statute can provide otherwise. So one BSA one seventy two says, like, unless otherwise provided by law, a quorum shall be I think it's majority of the members. Right. But because this section already sets three members as quorum, this does not change that. Certainly, a policy decision about what quorum should be for the parole board. I think Will can speak to what what house corrections thought about this. I think there was some discussion about how it would impact how many board members have to be president hearings and what implications that would have

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: for the parole

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So we'll we'll can ask that when we're, when we come back to this.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Yeah. And I think you did.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So we don't rush over. Yep.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Okay, thank you. Alright, any other questions about that Pearl Board composition section before we move forward? So that's section two. Alright. Moving forward, section three. This section discusses the parole board director position, and the changes start on page three at line 20. This adds some language about what the parole board director will be responsible for. So this includes the overall function of the parole board, ensuring legal compliance, developing and implementing all policies and procedures, and developing and providing training to the parole board, which the director will do in collaboration with the DOC commissioner and the chair of the parole board.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So, again, that kind of

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: first of the four buckets of things that this bill would do. This is pertaining to training and other responsibilities of the court board director. Alright. Section four. This is page four, lines four through 21. This creates the Parole Board legal council pilot project. I expect that committee will hear more testimony about the current setup for the parole board in that they do not have their own council. So there was a lot of discussion in house corrections about what was currently available to the parole board and what they might need to effectively function. And the result was creating a pilot project to bid for external legal support. So explaining this probably does take more than our twenty minutes for the bill, but I will just flag that there is there is more there. This this was the result.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. So we have a question? Yeah. I just wanted to

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: go back to the previous section. Yes. And it basically says that the director is responsible for developing and providing the training? I guess my question is about providing. That means it's limited to the director has got to provide the training, choosing the board as opposed to overseeing or developing. And so I'm just concerned about the word providing.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. I think the intent as you flagged was kind of ensure will be provided or overseeing. So certainly something for the committee to consider whether as currently drafted, it accurately captures that. Because I think you're certainly correct that the intent was the rep is ensuring that it will be provided, but not necessarily

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: actually doing it.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. Yeah. Think that's great point. Great. Yes. I don't mean to move too quickly. Very well. I'm just mindful of it sometimes. So returning to section four, the external counsel would do two things. They would provide annual training to the board, including on topics related to due process and to violations, and they would also be available as needed to provide legal advice to the board related to board hearings. Subsection b, this is lines 10 through 12. This reflects something that the attorney general's office has to do by regulation. If there are external bids for legal counsel, Attorney general's office is involved in making that happen, but subsection b just specifies that the attorney general's office will coordinate with AHS and the parole board to identify and contract with external legal support. Subsection c describes kind of an evaluation, and subsection d describes a report back regarding this external legal counsel pilot project. So as part of the fiscal year twenty twenty eight budget development process, AHS, DOC, and the parole board director will coordinate to evaluate the pilot project and determine resources needed for board external legal support for fiscal year twenty twenty eight. And by November 15, the floor board director will report back to the House Committee on Corrections of Institutions. And I suspect at this point, you should add institution committee.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: I know I've set my own.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. Really tall. Yeah. Easy to add. Mhmm. Detailing the operation of the pilot project. I think at the time this was drafted, the committee was waiting to confirm which committee this might be coming to. So not an intentional slide in any way, but easy easy to amend. And the report shall include a recommendation regarding legal support for the board going forward and what resources it needs. So this is a way to say for fiscal year twenty twenty seven, here's a way to get external legal support for the parole board and here are the processes to include it in the fiscal year twenty eight DOC budget and to report back about how this should be handled going forward. I'm sure there are questions about this. I think more explanation forthcoming and further testimony, I suspect, but any kind of initial questions at least about the way the bill sets this out.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So just some questions that I will have are what were the issues that caused this? And yeah, just I've been involved with trying to have an attorney for a state subset of the state and it took a long time to get an attorney through the AG's office. So that's something that's tangential, but that process exists. I do just happen to have some concerns about it, but I'm sure we'll have a few questions, but this is good. Does anyone have anything right now?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: The court attention is Or just

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: the black guy question. Yeah.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: The court attention explained in testimony was that DOC parole officers are appearing before the board, which is supposed to be an independent quasi judicial entity. The associate attorneys general who are providing services to DOC would run into conflict issues if they were also providing advice to the parole board. So there's kind of conflict tension there. But I will leave it for further testimony. Okay. Explain that. That's good to know. Okay. Moving forward to section five. So this is page five, lines one through six. This section five and section six are both about how this external legal counsel pilot project will be funded for fiscal year twenty twenty seven. As Will mentioned, there's a $25,000 carry forward that DOC had designated for parole board legal services in the fiscal year twenty twenty six budget. That went out to bid and was not successful, but it remains there. So that will carry forward for the external legal counsel pilot project for fiscal year twenty twenty seven. And then section six is appropriating an additional 50,000. So it will be a total of 75,000 available for this external legal counsel pilot project. And as Will mentioned, the bill is drafted a general fund placeholder because at the time House Corrections was passing this out. It had not been confirmed where this money was coming from. As representative Greer indicated, there is a large amount of money for pretrial supervision, some of which will be repurposed for for this pilot project.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Say that last thing again, please.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: Go ahead. One, just that we're the pretrial funding that the governor put in his recommended was about $1,500,000 House corrections and institutions, house judiciary, we've reviewed the pretrial program. We do not want to commit that level of funding to pretrial. So that's where we got that 50,000 from. And I'm trying to remember what the amount is. Don't think you earned a room on this, but we did reduce that amount quite substantially. So that's separate from the bill, but that's where that 50,000 appropriations

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And is that pretrial, is that the in like, kind of experiment that's happening in Burlington? So there

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: are two experiments. There are two two things happening. Okay. One is an accountability docket pilot project that was started in Kinmen. Now So that's around one. That's the accountability docket that is separate from the pretrial supervision program, which was created by statute in 2024. So still a new program. Was initially set to run as a pilot in Essex and Orleans Counties, but was then run-in Chenden instead for whatever other reasons, which is part of the confusion between that and the accountability docket. They are they serve different purposes is the short answer. The accountability docket is intended to reduce backlog and provide wraparound services for individuals who are continually getting violations of release or other issues. But it's different than pretrial supervision, which can be ordered as a condition of release separately. Okay. The kind of short answer, I think representative and I can talk about the best way if the committee just wants some context for other things coming before it about what is happening with those two things. Right. I think there are ongoing discussions about how they're being prioritized and funded, including this morning in house judiciary. So perhaps after this week, we can see where that stands and then provide a little report back to the committee about that plan.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Great. And let us know who to talk to also. I mean, we'll hear from you, but also others probably. Yeah.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: There is a an amendment to the miscellaneous judiciary bill that it's covering expanding the accountability docket. As I understand it, there are no changes being made to the statute relating to pretrial supervision. It will just be a matter of how much money originally designated for pretrial supervision is in fact going to pretrial supervision. It's gonna be a much smaller amount. And some of that money is, I think, going towards accountability docket expansion, and 50,000 of it will be going toward the pool of board of external legal counsel pilot project. But

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And that's in process, that bill?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Miscellaneous judiciary, that amendment is in the works today. I think not I don't have the latest on whether it's going on the floor tomorrow or early next week. Okay. But that's It's it's getting close. Yes. Okay. Movement towards resolution. I believe. Okay.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Terrific. Alright. Well, this has been really helpful. Anybody have any other questions? Okay. So

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: And you're done. So section to go over. Yes.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Two oh, actually, sorry. I'm sorry.

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: It's not a problem. The last couple sections Thank you.

[Rep. William "Will" Notte]: That was hard. I guess I would. Okay. Super sensitive. I'll be back.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Cool. So section seven is the primary

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Section seven. As mentioned, the parole board is an independent entity, but its budget is within the Department of Corrections budget. Previously, the parole board has not submitted a version of their budget to DOC. DOC submits its budget. So section seven would or provides some structure relating to that process for fiscal year 2028 and 2029. So as part of those fiscal year budget development processes, the pro board director shall submit a proposed budget to DOC and AHS. And then on or before 12/15/2027, the court board director will report back to the House Committee on Corrections and Institutions. And I will add verbally and the Senate Institutions Committee detailing the budget development process. The report shall include a recommendation regarding the pro board submitting an annual budget to DOC. So the idea is let the pro board director submit the proposed budget to DOC and EHS for the next two years and then come back to the legislature and indicate how that process has worked, what process should happen going forward, and whether there are any changes to make in statute. I think there was some discussion of whether the parole board director should or whether the pro board should be submitting its own budget line item that has bigger implications. And so if the discussion in house corrections was not to take that step this year, but this section seven would provide a structure and report back in the next two years so that if there's interest and if that's the recommendation, that legislature could could do that in future sessions.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So I do have a question then. Yes. Just line 17, the the December 2027, that is before they do the other two. Is that intentional?

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So I think the hope is that that is mid development of because 2026, they're gonna be developing the fiscal year twenty eight budget. Right? Mhmm. Right? So for 2027, at least DOC and AHS should have completed or will have completed their budget development process for fiscal year twenty twenty nine. So I think the December 2027 date is intended to fall after the two budget development processes from the AHS and DOC perspective and also provide a couple weeks before bills are bill requests are due so that if there is a bill request coming out of this, there's a little bit

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: of time. Oh. Okay. Good. Okay, that's helpful. Because some of our, I mean this year the bill requests were for that, some of them,

[Hillary Chittenden Ames (Office of Legislative Counsel)]: we'll talk. I think that was the intent and if there was a better date to pick, I don't think there was magic to that particular date. I think those were the two things that house corrections was thinking about. Okay. Both, you know, will these two budget development processes have been substantially completed so so that there's a recommendation coming out of it and just keeping an eye on when bills might be due if there's if there's something some action for the legislature to take after those reports. Okay. Alright. Section eight. Effective date, 07/01/2026.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. And now we are done with it. Sure are. So, thank you very much. Anybody have any other questions? Not me. Okay, but thanks for waiting for us. Appreciate that and this is good. We'll see you soon and we are adjourned.