Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: We have our, there we are. So we are live. Today is Wednesday, 03/11/2026. This is the Senate Institutions Committee and we are here now to discuss the capital Complex. We have the members of the Capitol Complex Committee. We have the state curator and we have the Commissioner of BGS, Buildings and Grounds. So, let us start with your commissioner.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: So, good afternoon members. Thank you for having us in to talk about this. I think we're all here to answer any questions. I didn't prepare anything specific for the committee because I'm not quite sure where you want the conversation to go. Because it was the Capital Complex Commission, we did provide the map. The map that has been handed out to you is the formal commission map, which is identified in statute. So this is really the boundaries based on title 29, what is it, one, Title 29, Chapter six. So, this is the overlay of that. And I'll just say to the committee, the complex was created to because of the historic district that is identified here, which this map aligns with our National Historic Register. So, that's the connectivity, which is really, really important. That's sort of, you know, going back in history where none of us were here, which I think was the seventies when this was identified. So that's the connectivity. That's really the background, the simple history of why the Capital Commission came into place. We do have rules and guidelines and we focus on the aesthetics and the preservation of the property and the buildings.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Thank you. Is it accurate to say that much of your deliberation and what you've looked for is historic nature? There are historic preservation boards and I think you're similar to a So historic preservation

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: within the guidelines, we have standards that we have set. So, the commission looks at any major changes, any additions, paints, flower gardens, anything new that's coming in. Example, that, you know, we haven't been very busy because there has not been a lot that's gone on within the complex. I think as all of you are aware since the flooding, there's a new business that's located down on the corner of State Street or Memorial Drive. The committee did the review of the design of the, I want to say marketing because it's a market, but of the signage on the building or the color. The committee looked at the State House Gardens. I think some of you recognized last year, we changed the State House Gardens here and really invested into that and Foster Street at DMV. And the committee also, we were presented a proposal by Union Mutual, which is the insurance company, I think probably like fifteen months ago on bringing solar panels in. So the guidelines are really specific on the integrity, the aesthetics. The committee does not look at interior. We work with historic preservation on that. If there was any new construction, and I will give you all a great example because you've heard of this, there's been a discussion on an addition for ADA and security here within this building. There would come a point in time where the capital complex would do a review. We try to, on large projects, do preliminary reviews and give feedback, so they can take that into their consideration before we bring it back to the, final vote.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Okay. And so how do property owners interact with the Capital Commission and the

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: town of Montpelier? So, I believe we have a very good relationship with the city of Montpelier. When a request comes in, we communicate that they need to, it may be you have to go directly to the city for what it is. We always look for the city permits and approvals before final is given by the complex, and the rules are different. Would you, you know, I'll pull your, I'm looking Yeah, at the

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: yeah. So, we're only looking at aesthetics. Right. The city's looking at whatever they want to look at, whatever that process is. Right. And I agree with Wanda, we do have a really good relationship. That wasn't always the case because probably about ten years ago, maybe fifteen years ago now, there was a rub because advocates were getting upset because they're coming to us and we were asking them for the permit. They've now been

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: I'm sorry. Could you just add

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Oh, no. I had head of shoulder lice. And actually, Heather, I'm gonna have you come up here too. And but but it's Do you want me

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: to get call?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Let me let's first, wanna hear about state stuff and then Yeah. And then your stuff, if that's okay.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: We don't have stuff.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Well,

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: about how the complex community But I just want to ask Wanda another question and then we'll then, because I'd like to hear from all of you, whoever wants to speak. So, so, Commissioner, there were, there are a couple of buildings that are up for sale. So, could you just show those on this

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: and go the status? So, oh my gosh. Of course, I I can't see this. So I'm going to be a little elementary. So this is Baldwin Street right here, which is, you know, following the pink lady. The building that is highlighted right here in yellow is the one that is we sold that. We haven't updated the map. So that was sold last year. It's at I always call it the Drew House. That's 9 Baldwin, believe. Did 9 it Baldwin. 9 Baldwin. And then across the street, this building, and I apologize to everyone who's online, this building right here which is 12? 14. 14 Ballwin. We had permission to sell that for prior to me coming back to BGS. We keep marketing it. It's a property that just doesn't It's challenging building. It's it's a it's a challenging building. And then over here, which is 133, across from the pavilion, now 111, across from the pavilion, David. You know the Yes. So 1

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Shoot. 112.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: 112. So 112, which is directly across from the pavilion, it's a very historic building. We have authority to sell that. We received authority to sell it, and this is my understanding, madam chair, prior to the flood. So, we have not aggressively marketed that because we have to determine if what if the state's gonna use it and not sell it, then what we have to invest in it is differently than if someone came in to buy it depending on what happens with FEMA and what we're required to do. So, we have authority to sell that. We are not advancing that at this time until the state resolves. And as you know, we are waiting for a final offer from FEMA. There's a negotiation price, know, it depends on the $4.28 or what we're doing with each individual building. And I'm saying this to the committee because it's so critical because that's got to be finalized as we then we move into looking at the future of the complex what we have to what we have to address. And so, you know, and I'm not sure if the committee's looking at any changes, but I would say as commissioner, if you are, I would ask that you pause and wait until we finalize with FEMA on the approach that we're taking on the money that we receive. So we can because we have to look at the complex holistically as a result of the flooding and how we're going to address things.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Thank you, madam chair. I I understand, with the volatility with FEMA being so volatile right now and particularly with money, and we we can and pausing on that, we we're not sure how the length of time that do you understand what

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: I'm saying?

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: So I I I I'm making some assumptions, but I'm

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: gonna add response, I

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: think it's really important for the committee to know that we've submitted all of our deliverables to FEMA. We have a great team. You all have met with Doug, I think, and talked to him and he's presented. So, FEMA is volatile and laying off people and what we're experiencing is maybe some delayed responses. We are still engaged. Doug is very engaged the with the individuals that remain. So And I and it and it's

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: not you that I'm it's it's FEMA that I'm and then it's not so I just wanted to make that

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: And I

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: that clear.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: I don't know the details, but I do know that the agency of transportation, maybe a month ago, you know, they're because they lost the the garages and everything on you've probably heard a testimony on this in Berlin. They're four twenty eight, and four twenty eight is a term of how the funding comes in, and the simplest way for me to explain it, how I digest it, is it's fungible money. There may be some restrictions on flood mitigation dollars. I don't know how you use it, but the four twenty eight gives you the ability to have more flexibility in your design and your thinking than just replacing in kind. And that was approved about a month ago. So things are moving.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Okay.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: And and as I said,

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Doug Farmum Farmum has been engaged and so we're everything has been submitted on behalf of the state and they've asked for clarity. They've come back and requested a different information and we're responding to it. So it's not silent.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: So there is communication and there's Absolutely, thank sir. Okay. Thank you.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: You're welcome.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Okay. Well that building is really important so I will want to talk about that when you come back in. Which building? The building on the corner.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: The That way. Okay. That way. I mean I think it's 110.

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: 1 Actually, 110. Because it Like, 112.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: And and so

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: The next one.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Madam Chair, I think it would be great probably at some point to pull the language where this committee approved the sale. Because I'm not sure if you put restrictions in that or not. Haven't pulled it I in a long just wanna yeah,

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: look at that again.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Okay. Okay, anything else? No, thank you very much. Thank you.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: I'm make some more. Thank you.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Good afternoon, have your Scholzheiss for the record. You. So would you like to introduce, well you just introduced yourself. I'd everyone. You want to introduce everybody else? We have them introduce themselves.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: We actually have a former state representative who is new and this is technically Yeah, congratulations. So why don't we start with Susan? Susan is longest after me.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: And what do I say?

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Who are you? How am I? Who are you?

[Susan Hayward (Member, Friends of the State House/Capitol Complex Commission)]: Who, I'm Susan Hayward.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Who am I? From

[Susan Hayward (Member, Friends of the State House/Capitol Complex Commission)]: From Montpelier, Montpelier, Bennington. I've been on the board for a long time. David appointed me to the Friends in 1986. I'm the longest member of the Friends, Friends of the State House, but oh, I think I got on this because of Jim Douglas. Mhmm. Because he's a buddy of the pastor and me. And, yeah, I really like this building. I think I did that when I had to come and testify.

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: And you have a degree.

[Susan Hayward (Member, Friends of the State House/Capitol Complex Commission)]: I have a degree in historic preservation from Alright.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: I just thought I

[Susan Hayward (Member, Friends of the State House/Capitol Complex Commission)]: That's helpful.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Not not with you. Yeah.

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: David Sheets, a curator, not a member of the commissioner.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: I'm Tim German. I was a six term rep from Essex Junction. Now with an Ace Funkilia, I'm involved in historical stuff. I coordinated the anniversary of Wapace visit of the month in '25. We did a resolution in May, last May, and had activities this summer. Now I'm serving as a tour guide in the state house. Nice. I'm

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: John Holler. I am a former lawyer and lobbyist. Worked in this building for many years, retired several years ago. Was also mayor of Montpelier for six years.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Yeah, the experience that you all have is wonderful. I mean, it's almost as if you were curated as individuals to to look at

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: different. Okay.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Master curator. So what I'd like to do now is just hear from you all about how things are going.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: I think

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Oh, I'm sorry. There's one other member.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Hi, Jarrah. Hi.

[Jarrah Billings (Member, from Woodstock)]: I'm Jarrah Bellings, member from Woodstock, and my family's been involved with the State House for more than a hundred years. And I grew up when my father was speaker of the house running around the State House, and so I have a good sense of the whole grounds. And I think it's very important that we keep protecting the historic preservation of the area.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Wonderful. Thank you.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Jairus Longerservant Sister, I think.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. It's a memory that talked last year.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: If you want to tee off. So, me just

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: say something that I said to you yesterday. So, and this is my twenty first year as chair of the Capital Pumped Public Commission. I'm happy to give someone else a chance to put it like. And just for your knowledge, my family was from Montpelier, we owned the country store across from the fire station until it burned out in 2003, which actually then brought me into this building. Lots of years near and dear to my heart, and I grew up here, and care about what it looks like, and I used to spend a lot of time on the other side of the city, keeping it clean and tidy and being part of the downtown. So, it's important to me. When I first started, I felt like the commission was very subjective. We didn't really have any batting documents. So, one of the first things we did, not because I asked, but it was clearly a problem, was we put together a master plan so we have a guiding document. So we're not just subjectively saying, I don't like green and I don't like black. It's something that we have to follow and needs to make sure that looks good in the streetscape and the height and mass. We typically meet four times a year. And pre pandemic, it was pretty much four times a year. Since the pandemic, we've taken on Zoom, which makes it very easy for people like Jaira and others to be able to attend a meeting. And we don't have it, I sort of check-in, it's very loose. I check-in with the commissioner and say, What do we have coming up? Should we schedule a meeting? Something came in last week, for instance. We were gonna have a quick Zoom meeting, so we weren't gonna wait for the next quarter. We do it sort of when the work is there. And we ended up not having to meet because that building was in the complex. So, Zoom has given us a lot of flexibility and I think it's made us more timely. There are projects like, at one point in time, there was lights across the street that were shining on the State House, and we needed to make sure that it wasn't gonna be, it was an LED that we moved to. We needed to make sure that it was going to look right, so the commission came down at night, they turned the lights on, we did the visual. Same thing with the victim's garden down on Baldwin Street. He looked at rocks and fences and you name it. And that was a very long process. But I would say the guiding document, if that's one thing that I'm really proud of when I finally leave the commission, is I think it won't be as subjective as it might have been twenty five years ago. Wonderful. And the commission changes from time to time. But we always have a monthly representation, which I think is super important, and I was very glad that John joined as a former mayor. I think as Wanda said, he worked hard on keeping a positive relationship with the city. At one point in time that took a little bit of work, meetings back and forth, but I think we're in good shape.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Good, good. Obviously you're aware of the change in leadership at the city, so we're kind of that.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: So, we're just basically here to answer any.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Alright. So, do folks have?

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Question? And it's kind of piggybacking on what you just said. How, with that change in, particularly with Town Manager, how has that been? Has that been a smooth or?

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: So, think the main crux, other than certain projects that have been tried to be developed, like the Portland Garage, over the years, we don't have that. We don't have to have a lot of interaction. It was really over the permit process. So, people were coming to us, or not coming to us, which was a bigger problem, saying we have our Montpelier city permits, and then all of sudden we see work going

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: on.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: And so that's when we realized we've really got to make this a more formal process, and a staff process. So now the city of Montpelier makes sure that they know we're the first stop, but you've got one more stop before you can start construction.

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: Commissioner Brown.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: And I if if I may, senator Major, just to respond to that, I'm actually meeting next week with the new city manager. And it's really important, I want the committee to know, relationships are very important, and I think we've strengthened them, you know, over time because we have a partnership with the heat plant. We have a partnership with the capital complex and the permitting. You know, we have a partnership with tourists coming into the historic and working on relationships and getting down there. So it's so I'm looking forward to meeting with her, and and we'll continue those the the discussions.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Because that relationship was decades. So you've been there for decades. Yes. So we cultivate that.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: That's that's right. There there used to be a city state commission. Right? It's true. Was. Mhmm. A long time ago. A long time ago.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: But but that yeah.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: It did have to do

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: with the It was It did a planning that went beyond the boundaries of

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: the capital Yeah. Plan.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: And we and I think this realigned and we modified the statute because it was it was probably redundant in some ways. Confusing. And confusing. And so, that's the question that

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: I do have is, I'm sure you've all noticed the vacant properties that way and then just the potential for redevelopment is great to that area and the complex.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Not in the complex, right?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Right, right. Is there any Has anyone ever thought about increasing the boundary of the complex?

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: Well, let's put things.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Down here, side, but on the other side, I'm just, I don't know the city regulations that well. They're probably pretty robust.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Yeah, I mean, I can just tell you in my time, and John can certainly add more to this, but the parking lot where this gate workers' park, the post office for this, those are all buildings that the city has tried to do something with. I think the state's tried to support them in doing that because obviously parking and or commerce is a benefit to everyone. But it really sits with the city because it's not in the complex.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Right. Exactly. But I was wondering if there's any interest in

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: I don't yeah. I mean, I think that would be a city conversation.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Just don't Oh, definitely.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: But I

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: would know how you would change the complex. Yeah. And it always comes down to pilot. Right? Like, so you're losing some tax.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Well, I'm I'm not suggesting that the state owned the property. I'm just suggesting that you might we might want some jurisdiction over there just to make sure that the it's in harmony.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. Thanks, Alice. Thanks, Alice.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: Can come visit us.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Mary Godmother.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Heather and I work together all the time. You know, supporting Heather with sweetness.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: So do you, Sweet. We follow you.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Oh, no. Thank you. No big.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: The shirt, Terry made? Especially, they have been not.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: The shirt Terry made. Okay.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: So looks like the commissioner wants to.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah, I think it's really important to go back to what the and the goal of the commission is. When you think about expansion, we would not, the commission would not be influencing the development or the permitting. It's again back to the aesthetics and the one thing that I'd also say and I don't have an answer to it, but I'd like to know how does expanding it impact our historic designation, which I think would be a really good question to ask legally. I think, again, I'm going to turn to John. I think Montpelier has two really clear avenues for those individuals that wanna develop that property.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: Well, one thing I was gonna point out is we have a historic review district, and it's a little odd because Montpelier has lots of historic properties, but I believe that the only area that's part of an historic review district is this area up here. I think it probably comes down to Court Street. I know we heard at one point while I was mayor, a lot of concerns for the residents up here who couldn't make, you know, relatively minimal changes to their properties in ways that were really different from other, otherwise, historic properties around Buck Hillier. So I would just look at that. I was trying to point that on my phone. I couldn't quite see it clearly on my phone. But anyway, the contours of that district. But it'd be important to know, I think, whether or not that's already encompassed by a historic review. If there is, I'm not sure it would do much to add that to ours because then you're really just creating another layer of review for the same, not the same purpose.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Right, right. I don't want to duplicate, but I just thought, it just seemed interesting to me that there was a lot of protection that way, which is where most of the historic buildings are, but not that way. And even if the, I mean, obviously the buildings that, if buildings do end up going where those parking lots are, I guess generally that kind of development, you would have parking underneath and then buildings on top. It would just be nice if

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: it was compatible with the

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: State House because it's kind of one of our entrances. But just to follow-up with what John said, Montpelier has the largest historic preservation district in the state. Mhmm. And it's it's actually multiple districts. Some of which, like this one, are design control districts. I'm just cautioning you to use historic preservation, which is a more all encompassing term. Design review Mhmm. Is what you're really

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: talking about. Exactly.

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: Design review is a control district. Okay. That needs review. Whereas a lot of the historic parts of Montpelier don't necessarily require that. Okay.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Alright. Well, does anyone have any comments on that or anything else?

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: I started mentioning some of the things we've done. That'd be correct. Like the 33 towers that were on top of 133, we've cut that down to 11. Little things that people might not notice, but that was obnoxious. What kind of towers?

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Antennas. Antennas. Oh. Just old utility type things.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: What else? Maybe more of those kind.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Do you have photos of what you've done? That would be nice to see.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Well, they strong? Yeah. And I don't wanna commit to that because we lost so many paper records in the flood and we scanned and we have some things preserved. So I would I would guess that there there there probably isn't. I have never thrown away anything I've ever gotten from.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Art historian. And hopefully you'll live with that. I should go through it all. Too.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: Please. Yeah.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. In

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Santa Ana Central, kind of thinking out loud. I know at one point in time.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Do you John, do you

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: know if if Montpelier still has a transportation committee?

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Years ago. Oh, I

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: don't know.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: I mean, even So I changed.

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: Three studies of that parking lot have been done, at least three.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: I remember when She has one, we did one, so we've been

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: I remember Governor Scott was Senator Scott. That was his big thing. He wanted to get that connectivity to the State House.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: I and I There's been none since then that we've been

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: I think there's I think there's more than three, but they all come to the same conclusion no matter what year we looked at them sort of Child. Because charter data shows it's not gonna work.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: No. It wasn't that. It was that it was controlled property for my mutual owns of the big parcel and they weren't interested in having At one And they had such a large part. Without their cooperation, it really didn't make sense, and so that was coming But getting the boss

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: out to tailorships That was doable.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Were It

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: was doable, but I agree.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: It was doable. And and so we're all here I apologize. We're kinda having this conversation here. I think what's important for the committee to know is there have been studies and partnerships with Montpelier. There have been separate ones regarding the pit. At one time, the state was going to purchase the Vermont Mutual and take control of the local parking lot, and we were developing all of that. There was money appropriated. That project fell through. We have designed the pit multiple different ways. John and I were talking about this, selling the air rights, doing development on Court Street. And and it always, you know, I think it always came back to money and in some scenarios control. What I think is important for the committee to know today is, again, with the capital complex and with what we are going through with the with with our submissions to FEMA, there is going to have to be flood mitigation. We are going to have to invest in flood mitigation across the street where there are existing buildings and where there are parking lots. So the viability of looking again at the pit is is probably going to be extremely critical because if we lose on one side, we have to gain certain things, you know, on the other side. And that's where, you know, letting this process go through. We've also been in partnership with Montpelier in conversations, and we we have been briefed and we know the vision on what they want to do with the post office, and they've been working closely with ACCD, and we know it all connects. So, I want to say to the committee, we are working as an administration, BGS, ACCD, very diligently on that and understand that's probably the future of something. But what that something is, we don't know at this point.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: But what's special is protected is what I'm hearing.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: I like the post office probably. Well, Bay Area. Mean, my failure is very, very committed to protecting the post office. And they've worked really hard on that. Well, some not. Okay. But well, I mean, I bet it there's

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: a commitment. Post office design.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. But, you know, it's but Montpelier's protecting their historic I think to your question, the Yeah. The movie theater or the post office or the churches or the historic banks that were down there, I think that's what John, I think, is referencing is that Montpelier has their own commitment to that. Oh, sir. We they don't need us for it.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Alright. That's really good to hear.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Yeah. Good.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: Montpelier is a big historical preservation. Okay. This

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: No doubt. I totally agree. Yeah.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Is the post office now full of black mold onto the 2nd Floor? Yeah. They do. Yeah. That's a contaminated site, though. Yeah. That's one of the the concerns.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Any other questions from us? Any other comments? This has been very helpful. Thank you for your work.

[John Hollar (Former Mayor of Montpelier)]: Thank you for

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: having Thank you.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Appreciate it.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: And, yeah, and and just Go ahead. Case you you didn't know, Heather has a tremendous short game on the golf course. That's why I'm I believe I understand. To fill that in there.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: So You may ask. Did you meet him?

[Heather (Chair, Capitol Complex Commission)]: You make me a better golfer.

[David Schutz (State Curator of Vermont)]: Said like a true lobbyist. Yes.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Yeah. Said like a true lobbyist.

[Commissioner Wanda (Vermont Dept. of Buildings & General Services)]: Alright. And she wouldn't fall off.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Think we will adjourn.

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: Thank you. You.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair, Senate Institutions Committee)]: Alright. Thanks again

[Tim Jerman (Former State Representative, Essex Junction)]: for coming. What did I answer?