Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: And what? Great. Okay. It is senate institutions, Thursday, February 19. We have one item on the agenda this afternoon. We're talking about the capital budget adjustment, billable number of which we don't have in front of me. We have Joe Major here to talk

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: about. Come on up, can I have a brief brief? Yes.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Goes off. Briefly. Hello. Chair Harrison is here.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Hello.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Hello.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Thank you, Senator Plunkett, taking care of this. And hi, Joe. It's been a while. Feels like it's been a while.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Before I get dark, Lauren Washburn is also here. She's my program chief. She's going to be discussing major maintenance because she actually is responsible for dealing with all the funding and major maintenance reviewing the projects that all the projects that are put up and we paying out the money so she's the important one for major maintenance I can get my screen share here.

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: Lauren, you're up. Okay. Hi, I'm Lauren Washburn. I am program chief for design and construction with Buildings and General Services. I oversee the major maintenance program. Major maintenance covers the large repairs and major system replacements in BGS owned buildings. We have over two forty buildings and 4,000,000 square feet of space statewide. 25% of those buildings are 20 fourseven facilities, so correctional facilities, mental health care facilities, labs, state police barracks, and because of that, that makes them more maintenance intensive. They're just seeing a lot more use than our office buildings. So our major maintenance projects focus on what we call priority one items, and those are life safety or code compliance issues, equipment that's at end of life or a system failure is imminent, or if it were to fail, it would be really disruptive to the operation of the facility. And then we have, looking on the right side of the slide, we have about 2,700,000.0 available in funds to get us through the remainder of fiscal year twenty six, and that is showing the balance of the 12,000,000 and then taking back the funds that we are asking for for FY '27. Next slide, Joe. So management of our major maintenance funds, so work orders that are too large or complex for our operations and maintenance staff to perform in house, those get added to what we call our deferred maintenance list, and items are added to that list continually as needs arise. Twice a year, we select major maintenance projects from that deferred maintenance list using approximately half of the appropriation for each project selection cycle. And how that works, operations and maintenance districts, there's six of them. They prioritize the most critical projects in their district, and then those projects are considered on the individual priorities within the district, overall priorities statewide, estimated project costs, and then the available major maintenance funds. When we select projects, we call them planned projects. They get assigned to a project manager. Typically, we assign about 60 projects each project selection cycle, so that will happen typically it's in July and February thereabouts. We did not do a project selection cycle this February because of the amount of money that we've got left. Projects that are not funded will remain on the deferred maintenance list, and then they get considered on a future project selection cycle. I also hold some major maintenance funds aside for unplanned and emergency projects. Those would be an unplanned example would be something that has failed. It's on our deferred maintenance list, but it's failed sooner than we thought and really should get repaired before waiting until the next project selection cycle, and then emergency projects are anything that has immediate impact to building or building occupants. Next slide,

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: If you can hold on, Lauren, I have

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: his own. Yep. Go, John. So

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: how do you prioritize, I know you have a maintenance schedule, but, there are always things that pop up unexpectedly and things. How do you, how do you go through your prioritizing what you need in your buildings?

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: So I meet with the program chief from operations and maintenance every other week, and we're looking at new items that have come in, and if it appears to be a typical item that's been identified as deferred maintenance but it's not something that's an emergency or needs to get dealt with right away, we add it to the deferred maintenance list. We're also evaluating those items to make sure that if it is something that should get addressed sooner, we're getting that assigned to a project manager to get completed. We used to do assignment of all the major maintenance money in July when we got the appropriation, and then we started switching to every six months because it just allows us to better plan how much we're spending, what's come in for unplanned or emergencies that we've had to deal with in the meantime.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Thank you, Lauren. On

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: this slide, the left chart, so the value of our deferred maintenance list is shown in purple. The major maintenance money that we are appropriated every year is shown in green, and then the actual major maintenance money that we have spent or encumbered each year is shown in blue, so you will see that we have exceeded our major maintenance appropriation in each of the last four years in the amount of major maintenance money that we've spent, and we've been able to do that because we've had prior year appropriations left over, so we've used that funding to make up the gap. The number for fiscal year twenty six, that is just through December 31, so since then, I've assigned about another half 1,000,000 in major maintenance requests since January 1. We have slowed down our major maintenance spending because of a lack of funds that we have to get us back to July. Those projects, we put some back on the deferred maintenance list, particularly if they hadn't been started by the project manager yet, some things we have stopped at the end of the design phase before it goes out to construction. Deferred projects that are currently on the list, some examples, flooring, siding, window replacements, we've got plaster repairs, repointing a couple of our correctional facilities, the brick. We've got some roof replacements, parking lot repeaving. Currently, the deferred maintenance list has over 190 work orders on it. And then the chart on the right just shows how I was saying we're spending more than we have in our appropriation, so it just shows the breakdown between the old funds and then the current year funds. So five years ago, we were spending old money first. Most of the money that we were spending was old money, and then we were using that current year's appropriation, and then you can see that as we've gotten up to this year, that has shifted, and we are spending primarily the fiscal year twenty five funds. 90% has been current year funding.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Laura, this is Senator Plunkett. Oh, and Wendy, I can't see you on the screen, so if you do have a question, just sort of speak up. But just looking at the cost of deferred maintenance over the years, it seems like from fiscal year twenty four to '25, there was a fairly significant drop. Then from fiscal year twenty five to '26, fairly significant increase. Is there any explanation for why there's that fluctuation?

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: Sometimes it depends on the building that we're doing projects in. So as an example, we were doing a door control project at one of our correctional facilities. Because that was so disruptive, we also did a bunch of smaller major maintenance things at the same time, so sometimes the work orders will drop back off, and then they will climb back up. I also go out and meet with the districts, and I have been advocating for making sure that they're getting items in. We switched to a new work order system a few years ago, and as we have staff turnover, we try and retrain people on making sure that work orders get put in earlier because you can always update the priority. Sometimes we might put something in that's a lower priority just as a placeholder because we know it's coming, and then we update it as the item deteriorates.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Basically nothing that is any sort of pattern or anything that's

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: Not really. Generally, list has been about the same similar value. You know, an item's come off when we do project assignments, and then it's been that same amount of items comes back on the list by the time we're assigning more projects.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Great.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Thanks. Rob, I do have a question. And nice to meet you, Lauren. Yes. Congratulations on the job. It's a really important job. The prior appropriations that you have shown in the right hand slide, Is that in one fund and is it looks like the fund or the account is reducing and that's I suspect that's why the funding is you know, that

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: It's more than one fund. It was multiple years of older major maintenance money, and then part of my responsibilities, and people need major maintenance funds for a project to look at what our oldest funding is and get that spent. So we're working from, you know, maybe the fiscal year 'twenty two funds and forward. So in this case, the orange is all of the prior year funds combined just to show, like, the green is the lit you know, in FY '22, we're spending a small amount of FY twenty two's appropriation and able to use the prior year's funds. As those funds have gone down, that proportion is shifting.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. So how much is left in the prior year funds, roughly?

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: Very little. I wanna say did not check that right before here. I think Okay. Jody

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah. That's that's fine. You don't need to know the exact amount, but that's what I was wondering is is if those have reduced so that Yeah. We should be working with current year funds.

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: Yep, we are primarily, it's primarily current year funds. I would say it's a very small percentage. Like you can see it was about ninetyten the other way in FY22, and it's kind of flipped. We spent, you know, 600 in the old money so far this fiscal year, but I think we're down to a few 100,000, but I would need to confirm that.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: All right. And I guess just a follow-up. So the '22 is probably coming out of COVID, right? Because we couldn't do a lot of projects. So this is the backlog. Okay.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: All right. It was COVID and it was also, we were sure, I think five project managers at that time also. So that's really why, that bubble was there. And we're only sharing one project manager right now, so we're catching up on any and old password and spending the dollars.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: That's great. So that won't be a normal pattern?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Correct.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Perfect. Thank you.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: That's it for major maintenance. Anything else? Turning into statewide planning, we're using contingency. Then when this is used for products that are not yet a line item, maybe we should look into it. So here, the photo that we see here on this page is for the Middlesex site that we own, and public safety in this small rectangle building, sort of the center left. They moved to Berlin, and on the right we do have the juvenile facility that is there. Let's say, juvenile office, are they supposed to go away? Health Safety Building is vacant. What can we use this property for? And so we use planning money to do that. Oh, so you use what? We use the planning funds. Planning. To go through, hire an architectural engineering team to come in and say, what's the best use of this site? How big of a building can we put on the site? How much of that? Want you to take a look now in the standing area and also do the storm water. So the more appropriate surface you put, more storm water you have to deal with and much of that. So they went through there and then came up with a plan for us to evaluate, because we haven't moved forward yet with the, replacement juvenile, or new juvenile facility. Those kinds of, you know, they're sitting there. And so we do have an opportunity to move forward to know really what's gonna happen next. And then we have reuse. Reused comes around where it's not necessarily another department's wish on moving or being moved for some reason. It could be, you know, we got a replacement electrical panel. When we replace an electrical panel, we got to meet today's codes, some of them were put in behind desks and the likes of that. Is we had to relocate these people and some of was pretty easy, some of them you know take a little bit more you know. Relocating one desk can be relatively easy. One would think but it's they're in this room, this pod that they work in and so how do you then rearrange the rest of that potential floor plan so that they all still fit and we have a required space in front of your liable pay. Then there's contingency. In the past, contingency has not come into play a lot because of the funds that we've had in place, certainly with major maintenance and likes of that, that we could dip into, but contingency is there for these line item projects that it's our only means to continue the project going forward so we're the commissioner allowed up to a $100,000 to spend out of this fund to keep a project moving otherwise we would you know it's off session And they go, ultimately after the E Corp to ask for additional funding, and where is that funding coming from, to, to back that up. So that's where our industry is coming. I, I believe the way the economy is and everything else, the use of that could become more and more, once things change. But that's what the planning we're using contingency is for.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: So did that particular, how many acres?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: There's a 10 acre plot and then I forget the other on the left hand side there's a large building there where Bisserra is and I forget what's in the right hand side. Probably another, I forget.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Okay.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: They were combined and we purchased, they used to be evolved at one point in time until I really hit, we had to build a temporary mental health facility here before we built that in Berlin, and that's what these trailers were brought in for us us to house those individuals. And then they were vacant for a while. They've been used by the new ones up and on, and they're there. Now. Okay.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So so people are in those now?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. There are four urinal beds in that those two buildings.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And that's on the right hand side?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: The Yes. The bottom end.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Next up is statewide physical security enhancements. What this does is a lot of the card readers, all the security stuff that goes with that, they get cameras locked out alarm systems, and like I said that, it's really about maintaining those. When I have a line item to run a vacate floor or a building, we will incorporate in that line item any of the requirements for card readers and security and the likes of that. But these are to do the replacement of that or to have, there's a there's a one off that you know once somebody's using a space or something's something has changed you know the back door all of a sudden is the better door to have the card reader on this is where they will go through and put that card reader in and flex a bet. Joe

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: I just had a question You know, Middlesex isn't necessarily Burlington, but if this facility is no longer being utilized, has it been rolled into the search for a new site for a woman's prison? Would this be something that could be considered?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: If I backed up and I can't show that on screen, but And the answer is no. Short answer is no. This here is a juvenile facility, these two wings, and they're just mobile units. They're sitting up on spans, the fence area. Then we have here the public safety Building, a garage, and then all of this here is the Vissera Building. That's always gonna remain there. Okay. So the usable land is somewhat in here. I got it. You know, there's sewer systems and the likes of that. Study that we looked at was potentially the replacement of the liquor warehouse down here on Green Mountain Drive. And could it fit on that site? Because, again, it's it's very close to the interstate. You know? It is. The top right corner, you can see it. I don't know where the site southbound went.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Like, I guess I just misunderstood. I thought that the whole site was no longer being fully utilized, and I was thinking that would be large enough, but

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: that's not the case. Right. Correct. Thank you. Yes. Physical security enhancements. Any questions on that? We're reporting on other 250,000 in bond funds and 220,000 in cash. Lot of that reason is our security group is behind a lot of things are changing over the years now of needing additional security enhancements going through three acre storm water compliance this year we're getting another $1,100,000 we haven't spent a lot of money yet other than in design and permitting However, we should be out shortly for three sites. Middlesex, which is that site you just saw where the, we just spoke about, the juvenile facility in Vocera, Northwest State Correctional Facility, and Pittsburgh. Also on that list, though, is the Regen site. Design is complete on that one. We're working on Waterbury Complex. We have a partial stormwater plant on that. It's just augmenting that from what was not picked up and renovated back after Irene's Northern State Correctional Facility. We do have some stormwater ponds up there. However, they're slightly undersized, but we're literally stuck between a ledge, two roads, and wildlands. So it's how to make that all work. They're working on a plan. And then we have lastly here Montpelier, we have down the Department of Labor and also for here at the complex we've held off on the complex because of the not knowing what we're going to be doing after the twenty three flood and how that rebuild is going to look so right now we've held off, there's on the northern side, the State House side of State Street, there's not a lot of place to put storm water ponds, so we're quite limited. 133 State Street parking lot does have some swales that are in there for storm water and they were pre irate. So those are the early days but we still need to capture a lot more that we have but it's difficult. If we were to look, we're looking under storm water under parking lots, may or may not be under the State House lawn. But that's, you know, we're very limited because the buildings and the parking lots are where that storm water runoff can go to settle back into the ground. So hopefully next year if there's anyone's left, we should be well underway with most of our projects being complete.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So Joe? Yes. The, this is a big deal obviously, if you can talk about just some typical mechanisms that you've used for these in the it looks like the correctional facilities are the the ones that have been that are you're working on. And then if you can talk about this this 6,200,000.0, which I think does include the 1,100,000.0 right?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: That is correct.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: The new one, the FY '27 bond?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yes, that's the total funds appropriated and today we've only expended 388,000

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right, but you have a lot to go.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: We do, but there

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I'm curious, I'd like to know the total amount that you expect to need for all of the sites? And I know like capital complex could be huge, so I suspect that capital complex is not in this funding?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: It is not, it was originally several years ago when this came out I put together a price tag and I think it was up around 12 to 15,000,000. I believe we're going to be below that. But how much I'm not sure. All right. I'll know more when these projects go out to bid. The projects designed so far have been all basically all surface with going, directing the storm water to a pond or the likes of that as opposed to having to be set up surface. Because we have the ground to do that. And that is the least expensive way to go.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: As opposed to here in Montclair, as I mentioned earlier, we're looking to put those treatment under parking lots or something like the State House lawn and the likes of that. Biggest problem in Montpelier is the amount of utilities in State Street itself to try and even get a pipe across would require potentially a pump station. So we're not looking to do that. We're looking to do a north and south side of State Street. But right now, don't have a good idea until this goes out to bid where we're gonna land dollar wise. We have our estimates from our design team and these funds that we have right now, when I asked for the additional 1.1, that's where we were headed. And I think we're going to be able to spend that, but we will be back in another year next biennium to have a better when I have a better idea of the other projects of what we're going to need to finish.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay and other projects are the last two right? Capital Complex and labor, the Montpelier?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Are those design there are really not complete yet. Virginia's complete, Waterbury is almost complete. So, but they're far enough along that we have some, for like Waterbury, around Virginia's, we, we have those estimates. We just haven't gone out to bid yet.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay, all right but everything above the capital complex, know I'm asking the same question, of those is it one, two, three, four, five, six projects should be able to be accomplished with the 6,200,000.0?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Definitely the top four that are on this list Waterbury and Regens. They're the Waterbury site shouldn't be that much but I don't know until I like the other four exactly what we're gonna have for funding left over. And then the job corp, we're sort of in a holding pattern right now on that site because it is up in the air as to what we're going to do with that site, if anything. So we did want to look through and put a stormwater pond in and everything else and then look to add to it or subdivide or the likes of that.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right. Okay. Thank you.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Orange State Buildings, that is a, the Arts Council should come in and talk about what they do with their funds. This year, they're asking for another $75,000 It is an intersection, And a lot of that work does go into our buildings or sites that they do. They get 75,000 a year now to the work that they have to do, pay the artist. This artwork that you see here is actually not in place. Well, it's in place now, but it's at the, Windsor County Courthouse in White River Junction. And that's the artwork that they had planned to put on the wall there. You don't really see it in this photo, but above there you get to see a little bit of a horse and carriage and a few other things. That was back in the 80s when the building was constructed, the original artwork that was put in. So that is still there and these phones are authentic and stuff like that. Next up is the, in Roblin, we have the Acer piece of Bloomer Building and the the roof repair. We've been working on this building for the next eight years now the way it was originally constructed there was there's a program that was leased and at the end of twenty years we ended up owning the building But then in the twenty years we put a lot of money into it because everything has passed this life expectancy. Most recently we've been down there in the past, I've talked about the sewer issues that are running through, and you know, when when it rains, our basement floods. It was an open sewer, and it was just coming out through the basement. We are well on the way of all completing that work right now, but now our next, thing that we have to tackle is the roof. It, this warm weather that we're going to get is gonna be horrendous to what we have up there. Our roof is down to it's a memory roof. It's got fibers in it for for strength. The fibers are exposed. And we actually are prepped and ready that once the snow does melt until we can get everything to bid out, can start construction. We're gonna do a temporary repair, Do a sizable chunk of of one of the roofs. But this also includes the skylight that you see. Part of the issue right now is we have the snow that slides off of the skylight, builds up, and then works its way into the cracks into the building. In the lower photo, you can see under the angle of beam, we're coming in as you can actually see where the water was behind the paint and disturbing that. This, there are windows in the top photo to this left and the tan building is a window. A lot of water has also created damage around those wood windows and once that, that is going to, also be repaired. So we're replacing the roof, replacing the skylight, and replacing any of the water damage that was caused by this. The skylight gets raised a little bit so we don't have that problem in the future. Moving on to the multi wall of the garage, which is right next door to the base of over the thing. Well, Russ is getting a of lot of works done there. Yeah. It it does need it. So in the multi mold garage, it's yet another, you know, part of the garage that we own and one that has not seen a lot of the maintenance over the years. And what's happening is, in the top left photo, is the frontage off of foray that you see, and where the bus also enters, because of, first of all, there's a bus station. To the right of that, if you're going to the bus station, you'll see this nice steel cribbing that we have up there, that's only temporary until we can actually fix the concrete and steel that are in that location. It is also the point of on I guess the front half of the photo above me before they get to the equipment is the ramp that is coming up off of the street and then you go from like pitched to a level surface of the parking garage and that's where a lot of water has gotten in between that joint and it's causing trouble. So that's a temporary fix there. The bottom two photos you can see where the concrete is just starting to break up and fail. It's due to all of the salt ripping off of our vehicles that are parking there over time and getting into it, any of the cracks in the joints to get into the reinforcing steel, once that raw step expands and then it's popping those, the concrete. So a lot of this work is looking at a ten year fix to get a lot of this repaired to prevent it from happening again and then another ten years we'll be having again to minimize this it's also repairing some of the barrier the waterproof barrier that's on you the high powered waterproof barrier in this state is studded tires, so if you run over that you know the whole winter it needs patching. Probably five six years ago now when we were still looking at 108 Cherry Street Garage, our consultant had come up with a plan that would cost, and those dollars in those days, roughly 250,000 a year to maintain that 108 Cherry Street Garage. So it's really about getting it in there, even if you can't, know, give them a January thought, get in there and hose down to get rid of that salt if you can, otherwise as soon as you can get in there, sweeping it to the legs of that, to keep that salt from sitting on that concrete. And then in the summertime when it's warm, we go through and patch any of those damaged areas.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: That paper, I know that you you you patched that, but when do you do an an entire refabing? Like, what's the cycle?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: It's there isn't paving in this garage. It's concrete with so it's got a wearing a tapered. So it's in my mind right now, concrete that's on there, so it's running, you know, we're pitching, any of the water runoff is pitching to the storm drains, and then there's a membrane on top of that. So we are attaching that now and doing a considerable amount to, you know, probably by us ten years. Then in the ten year, nine year, we're going to be looking for additional funding to come back and do it again. In the meantime, you know, we will be increasing our maintenance of this through a fee for space to go through and whether it's our maintenance staff or have to bring in a contractor to patch a section of amendment or something like that, that's what we will be doing in the next ten years. Pittsburgh, the firing academy oh, sorry, the Pittsburgh Academy firing range upgrades. This has seen multiple upgrades since I had been here when it used to be opening or just firing down into a berm, an urban berm. It has a roof, but the roof is vented. And what they're finding out now is because they do practice and train year round, This time of year, the snow and rain, and into the facility still, and build out all the stuff. And it's a habit for them to be using the range when there is ice, when they're firing and walking. What this project is looking to do is start the design process of putting a roof over the whole facility. So you still need the ventilation because you still have lead shot that's being used so that is hazardous if we put a roof on top and seal the whole building. So we're looking to put a roof or expand that whole end, the whole range end of it, so that you still have any constant airflow in there, but you're keeping the rain and the snow out of coming in. There's also question about the police academy is that have the ability for not just handguns, but long guns to shoot. So there's we did a planning study a few years ago that laid out of adding two lanes on the side of it that would be extending it some just two lanes beyond it and that roof would also cover, that extension. But this here is just that starting that design process for this. State has the replacement of historic interior finishes, the likes of that, and we're the floor. The carpet, the wear and tear on the carpet, David Shoots, the state curator, runs around, is always looking, having things repaired, the chairs, certainly in the house that are historic, the desk, some of the touch up painting, there's touch up painting that goes around right before eating, we all come back in January, that is done in, that's what these phones are used for. It's also the drapes and anything else that is not, it's only like a major maintenance for the statehouse of all and because when you look at our major maintenance program it's the priority one is you know it has failed it's a life safety issue well some of the carbon here that replacing the drapes is not a life safety issue it's not an emergent need, so these funds here are used for that instead. So it's dedicated to the state house, so there's not that conflict of being made but had somewhat of going that, you know, we really have to spend our money elsewhere. That's his budget that he gets to deal with on that. Major maintenance still plays a role in the state house, but these are the things that really aren't a priority one and are true major maintenance realm.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: There's a light out in the ceiling.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: That's maintenance. That's our operations and maintenance of 100 feet for space. That's now the light picture got replaced. If it's a starter, that could be a day but a day as opposed to major maintenance. Nice. So is it the fun work?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah this is the fun stuff. Joe, so it looks like there was not a appropriation in '26 and my recollection is that we had some we had a backlog of projects so we didn't need the funding then is that correct?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah that is correct. David has caught up and or and somebody has exceeded what was there so going forward, we're working with David and helping him put a better plan together that, you know, here's your funding. The backlog also has been trying to get work done. We spent three years trying to get the carpet replaced, a section of it, in car room, in that whole walking path area there. It was just, found a person who would come in and do it. They said it'd be on Tuesday and six months later and even to now, we should have not heard from that individual again. So we had to go out and find another individual who would tackle it, and they finally did. So, you know, David has remnants of this stash in every corner around here in the State House. So we already had the carpet. It's just a matter of blending it in. And so when you do go from the Cedar Creek into the card room now, if you it's been a couple of years, but if you look at the carpet right at, as you get to the door, that was replaced with a new piece of carpet, but that person who installed it actually trimmed, good haircut really to blend in with the existing carpet around it so it wasn't a vibrant piece of carpet that was sticking out anymore. It actually blended in with the surrounding as much as possible. But yes, we need That's wonderful. This caught up.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Thank you, that's great.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Well, Governor, State House reporting again. What we're looking at here at the State House is we were working our way around the front facade from west to east, repointing the building, the the granite facade. And when we got to the east side, the East south side, the road facing side, that was done three years prior to, think it was two years when we attacked the East entrance. The repointing that we had done was spent on, we wanted to know why. And in a year's time on the South Side it was the same thing. It's line putting mortar, it's very unique in how line putting mortar works, it needs a little bit of water, a little moisture for a week, week and a half to harden, and if you give it too much water, it's not good, and it fails. We run a firm who actually manufactures line cutting water, and been in business for, I don't know how many years, all over the world doing this, and he we brought him in to evaluate the state house, he pointed out all our issues with moisture problems from around the windows, gutters, the roofing, everything else. So when you look at the star, the dark stains on the granite and there's some of the rust that's coming through, that is moisture that's coming going through the granite. So whether it's in around windows or it's the moisture running off of the roof and hit spending too much time on it because there's a leak by the gutter, which is the bottom left photo that you see is the issue.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: All

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: that can be prevented. And so what this money is doing is we're going to be putting together the design team to come out and analyze the whole place, exterior of the State House, and take the worst first, which is probably the gutters and the roofs, that's what we can afford, on how we lay out our plan, and then start tackling this. Then the firm that we had hired to evaluate everything said basically, right now the line cutting border is just there for aesthetics but will also once we fix the roof and the gutters will help draw out the moisture that's in the granite. Once that's dry and we did have some areas where I'm going go to the pillars out front, they're nice and dark looking around, they're almost at 100% moisture content. So we got to dry that out. Once we dry that out, we can then come back in and do a final repointing and then we'll be done. Will probably be beyond my days still here working on the state. But it's a start and we're working on the design RFP right now to go out in the street and to bring hire a team to come in and start that process.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So this is, this seems better than it was last year. You see, my recollection is that it was very, it was alarming last week.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Hopefully it was alarming in that I certainly didn't know and a lot of people did not know it.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah, you've learned.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: That's true. First of know, to actually point these things out to us. We've had people over the years that have come up and can remove the rust stains, but then they return in a few years. And we didn't know why. And it's the why is the moisture.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Great. That's helpful. That's terrific. Thank you.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. What one is State Street? HVAC's on this slide should be in here. And the reason being is we are reallocating these phones. Mhmm. And the reason we are reallocating it, and I'll explain more later into that section, is that we're gonna be doing a lot of work here in Montpelier compliments of the flood once that works. Some work happens here at 120 State Street, but we do not want to impact our work with 120 State Street if we are going to use it for swim space or something like that, or we're looking to do an air handling system. If we do an air handling system with a chiller, what type of chiller should we use? When we're looking at potentially other buildings, should it be a central plant or something like that. So we have elected to reallocate those funds for now, not canceling the project, but come back when we have a better idea of what we're doing in the flood. Vermont State Archives, back to Middlesex. This roof here, I forget how many acres it is, but last year's spending went to the left side of the photo. So the left photo, the left side, the dark roof, it used to be copper and it was pitted. There were lot of pit holes in that copper and we were having water drip in onto the copy machines that the copy sitter had. And part of that problem they have with that is they are expensive machines and they can damage them when too much comes on them. That has been replaced. The white portion now is what we're looking to replace next. The grayish I'm sorry. The roof was leaking. We replaced a small section. The the dark blackish area was replaced this past summer.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: It was it was leaking on the copier machine.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yes. Why did they move the copier machine? Because the whole that section of building is all type of different style copy machines or sorters. Oh. All likes of that. I was just So it's not it was not that easy with, you know, five or 10 leaks.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: No. I just

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: You know, you fix the leak with just moving a copier machine before Right.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: You know? Roof leaks are interesting in the fact that here's the leak that you're looking at on this machine, but then you're you're lifting up the ceiling tile. Then above a ceiling tile, there's anywhere between a foot to four feet of decking, and that is corrugated decking. So in that corrugated decking and the insulation that's on top of that, it's very difficult to find out where that is. So it's not just right above you. But, and that was part of the problem, and it didn't leak all the time. So we went up there and we thought we fixed the leak, then, you know, five storms later, it leaked back in that same spot. That's all done now. Now the, where the gray and sort of white membrane is, that's where all the public records are stored. That's all the paper. That's being done this summer, the response. Pre proposal, same spot in those sites, right on the roof. This project's been kicked around for a while. We had some additional funds when they did an addition to the Lucero area, and there's some funds left over. At that time, we we had to move. Lucero got some space that used to be owned and used by Postal and vice versa. So they're loading docks out back that got swapped around and so different things. So during that time frame, we also found out that the UPS that was running all of these critical machines was getting was turned out to be too small for the new machines that they were coming in. And the machines are oversized computers. So when it loses power, it basically kills the hard drive. And it's thousands of dollars or more to replace these hard drives to get the machines back up and running. So we're looking to add additional funds that we have and we're working on now to get this project bid out and replace the UPS so that it'll be the proper size for that equipment. Waterbury, the historic core roof replacements. When the rebuild was being done after Irene, a lot of the roofs were not replaced at that point in time. Some of the, a lot of the brickwork was repointed and fixed, but there was not enough funding to do all of these roofs. We are very happy in the fact that my estimating was actually way too high for once, if not low. And we've got a great contractor in there and has done everything on when you look at the site plan on the bottom section of the photo here, the darker gray has already been completed. And our money went quite far with that. In fact, we had a little bit of funds left over that we're moving forward with Building F, the remaining funds, and so these additional funds that we're getting are to complete GH, Public Safety, and HANKS Building. If our bids hold, the money that we're asking for will probably be enough, but yeah, I never know the bidding plan yet. 32 Cherry Street Parking Garage. This is requesting additional funds for a product that has already started. It's well underway right now. What happened, this garage is in worse shape than Robyn. Better shape than 180 though. So we are drilling through there and the area that you see that, you can see the rusted steel and everything, that all has to be cut out of. The bottom left photo, you can see some, the small end of the cracks and the salt All residue that's coming that has to be removed. The steel, some of the steel's replaced, some of it is cleaned and up and back, including again a new membrane to keep everything nice and dry for the future. This project is said to be completed I think next March but also requires a partial closure garage in a renting space across the street the parking garage over there but the hard part is is it's still the people who need better secure parking still need to be in this space and the other people that are going to court that have been holding the great whistleblading are coming to the garage also because that is where that selling point is for the vehicles for the sheriff to bring them in. So it's a coordination thing that has to happen on and off, so we're hoping that the funds that are in front of us will certainly get us through.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Joe, a couple questions on this one. Thank you. So that's a is it a public garage?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: No. One is not open to the public. This one is really for judiciary, state's attorney. Okay. Not sure. AHS has some spots in there. There may be some for jury duty, but I'm not a 100% sure.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: But it's not all assigned to some people, but I'm not sure how that works.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So there's a gate to it?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: There yes. Yes. Can get your access.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. And then I don't think this question is for you but for the financial people but the bond of 500,000 and then cash of 3,000,000 do you have a do you know why that was chosen? That, you know

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Initially because we were looking to have this job complete by March, March, April. So all that cash would be spent. I mean, that's why they assigned the cash to it because it would go out the door real quick.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. Okay. Thanks.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: You're welcome. That's it for section two. The other sections, I think we're looking at section 17, the bonded reallocations. Scott has produced a nice spreadsheet for you that's that he highlighted in yellow, and those are the items that are funding funds that we are looking to reallocate those funds basically to the bottom line of the capital bill to be reinvested in this year's request. So we're looking at here with the East Cottage renovation. We had some funds left over. That project's been complete now for a number of years to get those funds back, the bonded funds back. BGS various projects. I don't have in front of me today that breakdown of 1,600,000.0. But a lot of that work that we have there are for projects that have been complete. Or I know one of them is 120 State Street that's on there. And again, as we said earlier, we're looking to reallocate those funds. And so by reallocating those funds now and looking at the bottom line, but we will be back later with a capital bill request once we know what we're doing with the greater capital complex or what is actually needed, and we'll be back to asking for those funds. New court, the courthouse replacement. I believe there are two years of funding in the various projects in what we have there. And so what we're looking at doing there is is the same thing. We're sitting on a lot of bonded money. That's old money. It's by statute. Five years and beyond has to be reallocated. So that's what we're looking to do is we we we need the money still, but we are giving it back now in terms of the statute and not reallocating it to the project because sort of like 01/20 Newport is on the cusp of moving forward. It's just not a 100% there yet. And so we believe that we have the time to go through now and give those funds back and be coming back later to ask for the additional funding. NHS Women's Correction Facility. Again, all funding '21, moving that forward, but that was the money that's left remaining there. It was really to put to the bottom line. Because when you look at the out years, we do we do have additional funds in there that if we were just able to find land and act on purchasing the land, we have enough money for that in place right now. So there would be no reason not to get that money back to the bottom line. And we will be back in the future where we do need it.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Well, we have no money.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: That is correct. We did a search for land and was state owned land first. It was a priority. And we had two prospective pieces of property that stayed on in Essex Junction. But that also Essex had zoning, basically, for a correction facility in the likes of that on the property where Woodside was, which is where our mental health facility is now. We asked them if they would consider rezoning.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: And they turned

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: it And then they said their vote was no at the time.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: No. Was left vote. Right?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: That that that was the the process that you go through. And so that's what we were we were working on, and now it's next week to go out and put out on the street an advertisement to whoever we can, and that we're looking for twenty twenty four plus acres of land for a correctional facility that is, you know, really on a paved road. Don't walk there, but we do like paved. Can be it doesn't have to be on that FF Class II road, the beyond, the one Silver Lake New Fortis. And then looking at, you know, preface power, water, sewer. We really don't want to be on our own water sewer system, and we don't have to be a high speed internet. So those are things that we're looking for. And of course, we want the perfect level piece of land because that works best. Partner corrections is looking at for their the people that are working now in Chipman and where they get their services from for the living are based in the Chipman County area. So that's where they're gonna be looking. And it but to find a flat piece of land in Chipman County of 20 to 24 acres is you know.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: No that's difficult.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: It's difficult. It's not that it can't be done. What's the duration?

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Or beds to come or all those to come in? They haven't hit the street yet.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. I heard you say that. So I don't recall with that. I I three weeks? I think so. We're we're not looking for anybody you know, it's give us a a Google map of the property and we'll have our design team do an assessment of the properties. Yeah. And then go through and rank them and, you know, good to bad. When we were doing this for the juvenile sorry, the mental health facility in Woodside, when we did that, it was properties that met some of those, but there one basic property that we had in very bright acreage, washed through everything. However, it just happened to be you know a 20 foot low spot in the center of the property. So you couldn't really build on one side and the other for that bridge middle. It's like okay you know it rains high and all these other issues but the site doesn't work because of the delay of the land. So that's the assessment that we would do. And with that really is you know the development. We did this with a women's facility when we were looking at our own properties. You know is there's a ledge? How, what are you looking at when there's ledge? Because of the cost of blasting and the likes of that. I would say March should potentially

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: some We have a

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: list, we're hoping for if we can get this out Yeah. By next week that I I think, yes, it it could be there. I'll get our team on there to do that analysis and to work.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Realistically, though, I mean, this this is not gonna come to fruition for three to five years.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Probably. By the time it to have a property, and and part of that search also is whether or not zoning is there for. Because if we have to go through zoning again, know, all bets are off in that time frame and whether or not it's worthwhile. So if we were looking at a perfect property, it's still going to be, you know, we're not purchasing it until we can get zoning home to it. But to that size of a property, to complete the design and construct it, with just a quick look at how you push the ball of, you know, the work we're doing here a little bit and everything else. Yeah. It would be it would be that length of time.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Absolutely. I'm just it's it's concerning and and disappointing, and I can say a lot of other negative things. The women's prison right now is in incredible disrepair and needs to be upgraded, and and can't do it in place, unfortunately. Just incredibly disappointing.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Are you?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. The right piece

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: of I'm muted. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Three years.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Three years for design?

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Yeah. The right piece of property. You could probably get there in three years.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: What do you mean get there?

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Have a facility designed and built, they give out two years to build it a good year for design and permitting, but it'd have to be the right piece of property. Right. Everything impediments.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. But permitting goes right through on an issue, the, you know, active 50, the likes of that. You you're right. But that's what you know, sort of that three to five year window. Yeah. Not knowing it. Yeah.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: But, Joe, can you speak to the funding? Because I'm I'm concerned that the funding might not be ready when if if we do get an ideal situation, and it would be a shame for that to be our problem.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah. Yeah. Well, right now, though we're reallocating some that's here on the spreadsheet, we still have enough funds to purchase property and continue with the design. That I think, you know, by the time we have property to evaluate, you know, March, Chitney County, this year's not a good year because the amount of snow that we have, you know, to start getting out and looking at the property, it'd definitely be in April. But we could still start that design. I mean, we can get through almost all of schematic I could say almost all schematic design and some design development without knowing the perfect piece of property by doing that. But it helps to know the property because you know if it's a slow property can make it work with two levels in certain areas versus one level and the likes of that. But next biennium, you know, we had the property purchased and we're going through design, we would back in the next biennium for that design cost. And then looking to also do what is up next, you know, for construction. What does that construction timeframe look like? Again, you've done other weather, I've done winter projects before. I've even had contractors at no additional cost due to construction in the winter to keep their crew working. Typically that's when the economy's a little, not as very good right now. But all that comes into play. When we, you know, we put it on the street, bid it, have a contractor, know what their bottom line is, and it'll still be a few years to ask for that funding.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: I think.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. That's the part I wanted. Wanna have more specific number. So what do we have so far?

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: I'll tell my head I could not tell you.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I think it's in the teens and I've and people and I've heard 100,000,000 to build it.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: For the estimate to construct?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah. Well, the whole project.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Yeah, mean, I know there have been multiple numbers thrown out there. A lot of it is site specific also. I think we have to look at what the population was. When we first looked at it, it was COVID. The numbers were down substantially because of the changes that corrections went through and judiciary and everything else on who can be out on the street for different reasons. Then also, but now we have a bubble because everybody's catching up because of the COVID that they're over full. It's really what is that mean average to be looking for, and all that is corrections to be picking that.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Just listening to the chair and Senator Major's comments is what we don't want to do is set ourselves up where we have to stop because the funding isn't available. And if I look at where you are in the potential, I would think we want to be in a position that you have the money to find the right property, purchase it, and move immediately into design development and completion of the design. Construction certainly is going to come into the next biennium but you could find yourself if everything went right we'll cross our fingers for that that you don't have enough money to complete the full design process before the next allocation of funds. That is true,

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: but if if we found, for argument's sake, an evaporate, we we found a piece of property, I still have to, because the design team we're working with right now, was all in the planning for the other two pieces of property. So I got to go back out to bid for an architectural engineering team. And so part of that and that is going to be probably a five month process in and of itself to be advertising it and ranking everybody and selecting the correct team to move forward and get a contract in place. The size of this building we don't have just one AAT team here in the state that can do the work, they'll team up with some other outside experts. And, know, at least that's what we've seen to date. So there's, so there's almost, you know, we find the property, we evaluate it, and we can put an option on it, but we're not going be designing April 1 if we found the property. Right.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: I've been here to ask you a question If before I

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: everything aligned, and I've never been here when everything aligned, but it'd be nice, you know, that I, that would be the day I retire, I guess, is- Yeah. I'm on. So until we know more of even, you know, what we're moving forward with property corrections and the likes of that, it's, it's, it's all up in the air. But I do have enough money that if we found land, we could put an option on that and be ready to purchase insurance. Alright.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So if you could tell us the balance so far, if you don't have to say tell us now, but just let us know that number, please.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: I don't know that number off the top of my head.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right. That's fine. But you can send it to us. And Yes. And my recollection of the the highest number that I've heard is a 100,000,000 for everything. So if you have that number too, that would be helpful. But I don't know that you generated that number.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: And people wanna pay that

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: for prison.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Crusher facilities are expensive. Yeah. You know, it's 1,000,000 plus a bed. But then again, that's what we're seeing facility, the desk. Yep. And The only price when I first started, it was $300,000 a bed.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And remember that the main one is less expensive per unit.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: It was because of the type of building damage just for a reentry facility. So there are no real hardened walls, security systems like that, because they had the main facility that was up the hill that the women would go to.

[Lauren Washburn (Program Chief, Design & Construction, VT BGS)]: This

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: facility that we're looking at doing would be both a secure facility and a reentry facility. So that's why the cost of, per bed cost would be higher because of the secured facility.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah, yeah. I did think that the main model, primary building in Maine was also less expensive, but we can find that out later.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: And quite frankly, I blame senator Plunkett for keeping the from people in there. So You

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: got the judiciary committee, couple of them.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: They're helping.

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: Was there anything else on that one specific or other areas? ACCB, the armored burial. I know that's not a BGS one, but I think that's where those folks could be in return because they're no longer being.

[Sen. Robert "Rob" Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Joe, just on all of those projects, is it a funding number or the number that comes after BGS, the first two numbers for the year that it

[Joe Aja (Director of Design & Construction, VT Buildings & General Services)]: was? Yes. That is known as a deck ID. Yes. The first two numbers are the year of the act. The next one is the actual, the next two are the paragraphs. Don't to have the whole thing decoded and just the year. Well, I had the first three employees at times, I can go shopping for all this stuff. So the first two are the year of the act, and it's three digits are the act, And then you get down into the sections and paragraphs. And like I said, our discussion earlier before we started was section two is different than the other sections where we had various projects in that section two. Like I just read through, all those projects are in section two as opposed to having a separate project. There's a line item. If there's nothing else under bonded reallocations, there's the cash fund sources. These are similar other than the clawback timeframe is three years for cash instead of five. So what we're looking through here is just the fact that in this case, this debt ID for some reason they veered off substantially, and the 900 was no, because this was the first time cash came out. 900 meant cash. And then we got into the year. And so the year of '23, and then so all these funds are only '23 that are looking to be given back to the other projects. And for think once again, we're done with the repo committee or working to ask for some of remember that's only the bond funds. Sorry. So, yeah, all this year's funds are being reallocated back to cash funds in this year's request. So you see the Superior Court. That one is similar to 01/2020 to Newport with the fact that we're looking we did a land search in Barrie, maybe, and we have not. And so we're at a point of, you know, could we run rate these in stupid buildings, and what do we do then with the other tenants in the building if we did that intertemporary space to vendor renovation within a courthouse operating courthouse on Mars. So that is another study that we're working on to see what we can do. So that's why that cash was given back. We brought them to field plan design that is public safety. And we were just sort of lagging behind getting that project out the door. We're now under design. And that, the public safety building that's goes from the North Side Of Rawlins to the Southern side outside of Rawlins declaring it on a piece of property that we own. But we do have enough other funds to complete that design. You can read chartered on snitches. That's all funds that we just printed out of the door. And then we had one twenty State Street again, same situation where one will be coming back with that, but it was old cash. It had a new reality, and so it was okay to be given up. Good. Alright. So any other questions from the commission? I have nothing else. Alright. And with that, we can adjourn.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Member)]: Thanks.