Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Speaker 0]: Okay, we are live. This is Senate institutions. Today is Wednesday, 02/18/2026. And today we have first the Vermont Fairs, then we'll have the Department of Corrections, and then we will talk about H50. So we're starting with the fair, we're starting with Plunkett, we will identify ourselves and then you can identify yourself and begin. So I'm Wendy Harrison. I'm a senator from Windham, which is Southeast for Vermont.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: And I'm Robert Plunkett, senator from Bennington.

[Sen. Joe Major (Member)]: Senator Joe Major from Windsor. Senator Russ Ingalls from Essex District.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: And Senator John Benson from the Orange District.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: You very much. My name is Jackie Bolson. Thank you very much for making the time to see us today. This is our regular advocacy day at the State House. I serve as the lobbyist for the Affairs and also as the Secretary of the Board. And we are probably one of the only groups that are coming in here today who are not asking for any more lobbying. Oh my goodness, not the next year. We're laying the groundwork. So we have a group of pairs of all shapes and sizes and kinds. They're going to tell you a little bit about what they do and how they do it. They're going tell you how old they are. Several of them are also involved in the three acre rule and they will identify themselves as such when they come up here. I know a couple of you have already heard some of this so they've been told to say something different to see if we can catch you all. The other thing I do have to say is we did have an economic survey which we handed out and there is a huge misspelling right in the middle which would require you to read it and find it and that's the only reason I did it. No, really screwed it up. And I'm admitting that. So it gives you a little bit of information. I think one of the things we've been asked, particularly in the House Act Committee, what is your economic impact to the state of Vermont? It's over $9,000,000 for all the bears that they're bringing into the community and putting back out into the community. So it's quite an economic driver. And if you think that the capital grants are $300,000 and the stipends are $110,000 it's quite a thousand dollars. So we all are very grateful for the time and for the funding. And I will let folks start. I'm going to introduce Chris Vance from Caledonia Fair first. We had

[Speaker 0]: time. Chris

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Vance with Caledonia County Fair. I apologize for those that have already heard my own spiel. I'll try to change it up just a minute. On behalf of Caledonia County Fair and Remote Care Association, just want to again thank you and kind of, you know just speak to a couple of the things that we get and what we use it for. First is the stipend money that comes across.

[Chris Vance (Caledonia County Fair)]: We get how much? Call it $15,000 of stipend money which goes towards paying premiums. In Caledonia County Fair's situation last year we paid out $71,000 in premiums and that's really to encourage people to participate, be able to participate. Obviously it doesn't cover costs but it's a little something. That stipend money is great. The bigger thing that's near and dear to my heart is the capital grant program and I think that that has been instrumental. I shared with the other committee, but I'll share it with you. This is the Caledonia record from 1993 when Caledonia County Fair's grandstand burned to the ground due to arson and all I would tell you was that in that time we were basically on the verge of bankruptcy. We had no no midway, we had no grandstand and our fairgrounds was in very bad condition. You know it was because of the state and because of capital grant program that I would tell you that our fairgrounds has transformed since 1993 into what I would say and again I'm biased, I would say is probably one of the nicer fares in The States. True.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: You say

[Chris Vance (Caledonia County Fair)]: it. But again, the capital grant money as talked about the importance of it is really getting all the fairs to really be very proactive at coming up with a project to improve infrastructure in some way shape or form and if it wasn't for that program I just I think there's a lot of us or a lot you know that would just maybe not do anything and that would lead towards you know, going out of business. So I think that that money is, you know, as I said, seeding us in a project that we're then able to take that and go out to the community. So again, the last couple of years we were able to work to finish up really our cattle department, which has really been transformative. The fact that we've been able to pull big shows out of other states. We've now got one of the largest showrooms in New England with Lawrence Arena where we added to it. But I shared with the other group earlier that the Lawrence Arena, which was a capital grant project in 2002, cost us $56,000 The 14 foot extension on each side of the existing building last year cost us $120,000 So again, everything's gone up with that capital grant money is extremely important. The last thing that I'll share, and I promise you don't need to stand, things happening is that in this coming spring, we will erect a weather monitoring station in conjunction with the University of Vermont. They reached out to us early last year and basically spoke to the need of something on that part of the state. As many of you are aware, we were hit extremely hard with severe flooding, and what was unbeknownst to us is that because of the mountainous terrain there was no real way for people to see what was going on in terms of river depths and things like that over in that neck of the woods And UVM just said, would you guys give any consideration to allowing us to put up this 30 foot weather monitoring station? And again, our board agreed unanimously to do that free of charge. And so again, we went through all the permitting and got the town approval so that in the spring that that structure will be erected and hopefully in the future we'll have better lines of what's going on in the area. So that's all I have to say.

[Speaker 0]: That's terrific. Thank you. Next, Scott Buschey.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Welcome.

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: Thank you for the opportunity to ask me the time to speak with you. Am Scott Shee. I represent the Vongo Fair. Probably the well, it is the smallest fair. I think of the group. Very much my sentiments are the same as what you'll hear from the rest of them is the price of keeping up with your capital projects. It's our first year, we created a five year plan, our very first year, in order to give the proper electric requirements, and code, we spent over $85,000 just in electricity, electrical upgrades, which without this state run grant stipend, we would be out of business. There's just no way we can operate. We've used, I think current this year, we're gonna use the money to refab one of our oldest buildings, the Quilt Hall, in our fair, this will be our two hundred and twenty eighth year. So we're using to fix that, because it isn't, you know, everybody gets in disrepair, it's just, it's kind of the nature of the business. Again, too, with us, we've had to raise our premiums, what we pay out for prize money, for what have you, to draw people in, to draw participants in, really, then that draws in your crowd. Last year, we were able to, I don't know if any of you are familiar with the band, the samples, but they were a local band that started in Manchester, and then went big, and we were able to get them to come back on Friday nights to our affair, which was huge. I mean, I think, I mean, you couldn't even move in that tiny little village that night. And it just but that's what your money does for us is that it allows us to redirect some of the funds that we make into other areas to then bring back people in, which the small I can tell you that we actually had to have two ATM machines put in on the fairgrounds, because every year we wipe out the bank's ATM and the independent ATM that's there. That's how much money is spent in that short amount of time. And as with my other folks here, yeah, absolutely. Without your support, without the capital grant stipend, this tradition would just, it would fold up, it would go away. There's no way we would ever be able to continue. So as always, every year I've been here, I just really want to say thank you. Thank you very much for supporting us. It really is the biggest health we have. Well, Scott,

[Speaker 0]: and you're welcome. And there's no intention of stopping anything, just so you know.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Yes. Tell them how much acreage you have.

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: So we operate on nine acres, three of us parking. Okay, So we use six acres, I don't know, from Bennington, I don't know if you've ever been. It did not go by. Okay, so, I mean, it's, the space that we run on, with the amount of stuff that we have and stuff in there, it's kinda mind boggling to when you actually see it set up, and it's like, oh my god, how do

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: I get from here to there? So,

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: yeah, we try to jam it, jam it as much as we can, but this is and then other times of the year, we do other things, like we put on four concerts. Brie to anybody that comes, but we have vendors that sell food, crafts, whatever, they pay for a spa. Well, that's our give back to the community. We let the flood work school, they do a dance recital in the spring, we don't charge them for it, and then we have other things. Peru Pair, well, Peru Gathering is now defunct, so they reached out to use our grounds possibly to do something there, and we're, we have a country jamboree thing that's gonna happen, and so you try to use your grounds in other manners to also create a revenue stream that but then you find, like, put more time in, you're all volunteers, you gotta make it look better, and and we are a 100% volunteers, and they just do it because they love it.

[Speaker 0]: And the community is better off for it.

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, most of them would say that as long

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: as you

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: don't say that I'm

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: the president or that you know me.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: That's all I've been paying for the

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: Parliament, and I've made my fair share of

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: enemies. Thank you so much for your support.

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: It is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: And if you haven't been to their fair, their quilt barn, which is the one that they're redoing this year,

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: is amazing. We had 300 quilts in it this past year.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Wow. And it's not big. Wow. It's maybe twice the size of this york.

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: And God forbid, if you have to rung the door there and some old lady comes up to you and says, Do you know what a pineapple snitch is? You get better at the answer.

[Speaker 0]: That's great.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: It's really a very sweet little affair. So the next three fairs are going to be the ones that are involved with the three acre situation.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, that's helpful.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: Thank you.

[Speaker 0]: We've been talking a lot about

[Tim Shea (Champlain Valley Exposition)]: Tim Shea, shamplin. Expo, a mere 102 years old compared to our friends in Bondville, but just echo the comments that they'll be forming, and thank you for the support. We use the Capitalgram for not too exciting projects, but crucial to our operation, water infrastructure, electric infrastructure, HVAC units. What that has allowed us to do is free up other resources that may not qualify on the capital grant. We had a barn that was probably fifty, sixty years old, falling apart. We thought it was a 30 to $40,000 repair. Turned out to be a $150,000, but we need that barn for the fair and also when we culture our four H events throughout the summer. So that money is tremendously helpful to our operation as are the stipend grants that we use for premiums as well. The role Fairgrounds plays in communities is is it's well beyond the events that we host. We haven't host public safety training events. You know, we don't charge state police or local police. We're hosting The Essex Fire Harmon reached out to us. Guess fire training sites in Vermont are hard to come by. We have a spot on our land where we really can't use for much, and then our three acre treatment, but another section out there, and we're stacking, we're at Essex Fire Department, stack three conic boxes that are gonna do fire training for not only Essex Junction, but surrounding fire departments in Northwestern Vermont, so we're happy to provide that space free of charge. We are the proud owner of 33 impervious acres, and we received the grant last year. I cannot thank you enough. That cloud was hanging over our head for years, and we engineered it, and we're gonna come in just under the $550,000 We have about two thirds of the work we've done so far. The agency of Ag has been phenomenal to work with to stand up these grants. I think we were one of the first to go through the process, we all kind of found our way, but it's been very good to work with, and we look to wrap that up probably on June timeframe of this year.

[Speaker 0]: That's great, can I ask you a question? Yeah. So if you can give us, if you can provide plans or specs or it be helpful because we'll be talking to other folks too, I mean not fair since we have volume now, but there are other, the three acre rule is a big deal and so you're an early participant and so it would be good for others to learn from what you did.

[Tim Shea (Champlain Valley Exposition)]: By all means, I had the chair of engineering work that we did. We were somewhat fortunate we had an existing stormwater infrastructure, so we would expand the pond as opposed to, and really expand the pond to add some catch basins, so we're fortunate there, but I'm more than happy to share our engineering work Like that we I said, we're wrapping up this June or so before maritime there, and put behind us.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Thank you. Happy to catch

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: 33 acres out of how many total?

[Tim Shea (Champlain Valley Exposition)]: 140 acres.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Okay.

[Tim Shea (Champlain Valley Exposition)]: But again, we were fortunate that we had the space to expand our pond, and it was a part of the grounds we really don't use for anything other than the office, or additional parking for the fair, which we'd be working on. Happy to answer any other questions and folks.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: How many days a year are you open to that facility now?

[Tim Shea (Champlain Valley Exposition)]: We're open three sixty five days. There's events there. I bet that are part of the three hundred, and when I say events, we, if you're familiar with the facility, the two big buildings, when they were built in 2000, 2005, they were built with youth soccer at night. So when I say event, tonight there's probably 300 kids playing soccer indoors. Beautiful. So when we don't have an event going on, we repurpose it for, soccer, and it's a great partnership because the soccer program's found that for them to go out and build a facility and use it on their own, the math doesn't work, where they could lease space for us, again, they're not using it for soccer, we can use it for a fair and other events.

[Speaker 0]: It's a great idea, right, especially the seasons complement each other.

[Tim Shea (Champlain Valley Exposition)]: They do very well.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Andy's going to be hosting the Pharm Show next year.

[Tim Shea (Champlain Valley Exposition)]: Pharm Show's coming back, yeah. It's 2027. It's a different format, but we've been working with them. They've been a great group of people doing the work on it and we look forward to welcoming them back next year.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Terrific. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Cindy.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: Hi, Wendy. Hi, I'm Cindy Cahart from the Addison Fair. Thank you again for the stipend and the capital grants, and as I said this morning, I can't even thank you enough for the three acre coming through for us and making it less stressful. We figured it out and teamwork and it's a whole different demeanor among the board members so we don't have that moving over our head because it was very stressful. So some of our capital things this year, well, what our five year plan is, is to get rid of the use of big tents. We would like to have existing buildings because a year ago we had three tents that got destroyed in wind. They're expensive to buy, repair, and hard to get. So that is our goal, that's our five year plan, which we did incorporate into our three acre rule because I kept advocating for, they kept saying it was a snapshot of time, and I said that we can't afford to re permit, re engineer every time we do something. And so, we had a meeting with Scalia Rooney and the department. I can't tell you all the people that were there. Then our engineer and a couple of board members so that everybody could ask every question and that would be my advice to anybody that's doing the three acre rule. Don't do the ask her and she asked him and then they relay the message back if you're all together and can ask all the questions.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Did you get an MOU with them on that? Or how did they do that?

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: Selena did it for me.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: So was thinking if you had a memorandum

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: of

[Unidentified Committee Member]: understanding or agreement, if you could share that that with would be great, because then we could share it with others if they got into the same situation.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: It's worth its weight in gold. Mean, felt like what we did, our engineer, the first time, cause he re engineered it, I don't know that they were as familiar with the whole thing, and he came into the fairgrounds and like, woah, we gotta do this, we gotta do this, and we were all just like, you know, struck blindsided, and then as we talked, we were like, we have this spot, why can't we use this spot? And then we went back to him, and that's where we had the water from the fairgrounds flowing anyways, and he said, well,

[Speaker 0]: you can.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: We should have done this the first time.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: So that's how it's ended out. So we did have to re permit and re engineer the whole thing, but it's going to work out. But that Zoom meeting with everybody together was worth its way to go because everybody was on the same page. Everybody had different questions and yeah, it just, it sealed the deal for us. That's great,

[Speaker 0]: and especially with a volunteer organization that can

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: be really hard to do. Yeah.

[Speaker 0]: And a new program, so good for you.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: Yes. That was, I just can't even tell you, our meetings are such a different meeting now that we don't have that stress of what are we gonna do?

[Speaker 0]: So it's all finished? We haven't. It's implemented or it's

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: just No, it's all ready to go. Depending on the weather, we'll either do it this spring before the fair or after the fair. Okay. Weather.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, if you don't mind sharing your plans with us too. Send us a copy. Would

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: be great. Yeah.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: Any other?

[Speaker 0]: So, what what is your future? What's your future plans? What's our future plans? Oh, actually have said your

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: fire ban to get rid of the tent. That is our ultimate goal, is to make And then, you know, when they asked me about the three acre rule, how do you know where you're gonna put the buildings? And I said,

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: well, you don't look at

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: the bigger grounds, there's only so much space where you can't these tents. So, I'm pretty sure we can't grow new land. So, that's where they're gonna be. That was

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: a glitch that they discovered. That permit is a snapshot in time and we sent to them, bears have to expand. That's what they use the capital grants for. And originally, they told them no. What you're applying for now, if you build something that's more infervious surface, you have to apply again, which is very frustrating to have to be told that because it doesn't give you the opportunity to plan ahead. So they had a really good experience because it all worked out. But it's also something that others that are doing this should question when they're going in for that plan. If they have an idea that they're going to put up another building, make it known immediately because otherwise it will be a snapshot of time and they won't be allowed to do it.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, that's really important. So then your permit includes the buildings that are not yet there.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Well, see that's

[Unidentified Committee Member]: the key.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: It sets

[Unidentified Committee Member]: out a decision making and so if you have another facility you don't have to reinvent the wheel, you can go here, but we're going level this procedure. Right,

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: if we have, you know, we are going to build it bigger than we technically need it right now, so

[Speaker 0]: they said that we could just

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: kind of, you know, say, we've built this, we have enough room. So, you know, I don't know, I think we have to re permit it or, you know, do something, but at least we aren't going to have to Right. We aren't going to have to build. Road

[Unidentified Committee Member]: map of

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: how to get there.

[Speaker 0]: Yes. Yes.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: That's great. Good. So thank you. I just thank you guys enough. It makes this volunteer position way more fun. Thank

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: you for all you do. Is this one of the places you want to milk the cow,

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Senator? Yes. How'd it go? Yes.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: And the last fair we have represented is Vermont State Fair. It's a kind of the poster child.

[Speaker 0]: Yep. As as Sydney was talking about

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: the the weight that was lifted off of her board, Rick and I are looking at each other going, boy, I wish that would happen.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Rick McCurrier from Montsafe Air. And again, I'd like to thank you guys. Decided that was a grant. It makes a big difference to us. We're pretty fortunate that we have quite a few talented people that will donate, so a lot of times we're using the grant money for materials almost sometimes, and we've got the people that will do the work, either volunteer or, you know, have machines or whatever. One thing that we are, that's in the grant for this year is we have to put some railings on our grandstand to save the issue. We've done a tremendous amount with the city with water as far as upgrading. We've got an almost complete loop system there now so that we can feed if we have a problem in one area, we can feed from another. We're very fortunate. We have a couple of people on board that actually work for the city, and that's, at times, has been a little bit of a problem because the fair and the city haven't always got along perfectly, that's actually not a problem now, so it's a lot easier to get that done. But, as we were saying, on the three acre results, we're about 60 acres with 17 acres in purges. The problem with our fairgrounds is we're under a, not only a tree, but a capturing tree, because we have a peter book going straight to our fairgrounds, and that's at our lowest point. So there's, our engineering is, and it has changed a couple times, but we're still actually in the feasibility stage, whether we can actually capture and treat, because by capturing, everybody thinks capturing usually a pawn, and then you let it settle out. And we, our only areas that we've worked at are in the wrong places, you know, they're uphill, they're this and that and that. So there are other options. One thing they talk about is like a, that's a term, an amerration chamber, but it's like an underground tank that would hold the water, and then we treat it and release it a certain amount of time. The problem with that is, by the time you bury all that stuff you might not be able to put rides on top of it. We'd be giving up too much of our land. You you may be able to park on it, maybe not, depending on, like I said, we haven't got, I think it's, their estimate is like 170,000 for our, just for our pensioners. And again, it's for feasibility. So we're kind of between a rock and a hard place. Obviously we wanna continue. We've got a real go getter board that, you know, that's very positive, I understand exactly it would be wonderful if you could come down and tell me, yes, we could get rid of the egg roll, we could look at a lot of different stuff, but right now that's our major problem, our major hang up. We're still, we're moving forward. We're doing well, our parent will's been doing well, so we got an extended contract with them, so you know, we're in good shape that wise, business wise, I think it's just a matter of, we gotta get around the street and everything. Okay. Questions, I try to answer anything I can, some I can't, so I can't, but. And you're in progress. Yes, which actually our firm is backlogged enough that they aren't supposedly, they have done a preliminary, and they are supposed to actually start on the engineering, like, within the next two or three months, so.

[Speaker 0]: Okay, so it will be this season, but you didn't have

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: it last season? No, okay. Like I said, we had the preliminary feasibility, I should say, which, you know, they went in and studied where we could actually put any kind of capturing facility and how we would be able to get the water to it and some different things like that. But like I said, our big old back is the brook. That's, and we have the railroad track on one end of our fairgrounds and Route 7 on the other end of our fairgrounds, and the broom goes through a big box culvert at Route 7 and we have a four foot square culvert down on the end by the railroad tracks, and the problem there is if we get a lot of water, we get flooded. And it would be great to change all of these things, but they almost all have to go together to make everything happen. So we're just kind of working our way through it. And the state has been good help and this lady has helped us more than anybody. She had basically walked us through the whole progress, know, process I should say between us and the state, so.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Good. And they had 17 acres up

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: in Pervies down the county? 17 against 60. Against 60, yeah.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: They've had DEC down there.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: We've had two in person meetings.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: That's right.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: We tried to get another one and we couldn't get it in before winter because they discovered wetlands on top of everything else. And the other concern is, when we mentioned this, the DEC, because they say, Well, you can put this underground system in and then you can park on top of it. And the question was, what are they supposed to do for a year or two of construction? They lose access. They can't have a fair. They can't have any extra activities. I mean, it will put them out of business. And there was no response. I know that often that I've never heard AOT pay compensation to anybody for construction issues. You hear it in Burlington, that went on up there. You hear it everywhere. They were kind of shocked when we said, What are they supposed to do for one or two years? Because the construction is when they're handling the fare or anything else. And they would lose parking spaces, they could lose spaces for the amusement rides.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Well, and also the actual infrastructure of the fairgrounds with all the water lines, power lines, sewer lines. We have two major city sewer lines go through our grounds. Yeah, it would be, and the other thing too is like, the stop and go procedure for a fair does not work because what happens is you stop or you lose your carnival. That's probably one of the, I think everybody will share, and that's one of the hardest things to keep in place, it's a carnival. And your vendors. Your vendors get used to doing a different circuit, and it took us, when we changed dates, took us probably, what, five years even begin to get our feet on the ground.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Yeah, five years we struggled and then the sixth year we had like, oh, this might work.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Yeah. And it's a slow building process. And now we're getting back, because the problem is when you're down on vendors and you're down on a show, less people come, then those vendors talk to other vendors and, well, why would you want to go to a broker, you know? So as it's getting better and everybody's starting to do better money wise again, we're gaining popularity. It's got a company built out. Well, like I say, we're very happy, pleased with the support from the state. The big thing is gotta find a way around this three eighth hurdle. Okay.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: And did you have an estimate of how much it was going to have they said? It was like 1,000,000.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Well, they were over

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: 3,600,000.0 last I heard.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: Well, yeah, it's been everywhere from what she said, 2.7, 3.6, depends. Like I say, we're still over, even in the feasibility part, you know what mean? Because they haven't gone that far yet.

[Speaker 0]: You said 170,000 for engineering. Yeah. That's your first hurdle.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: And I'm actually surprised that knowing this firm, even though I know they're good, there's a lot of work there for 170,000.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: And their portion, the legislature granted them $2,000,000 so Tim came in right on, and I think Cindy came in Orleans is the other fair and I think they're early in the process too, I believe. So, that leaves 100 out of 107 out of their 550,000. You take away 175,000. What are you gonna do with that?

[Speaker 0]: I'm really glad you're working on this. Well, you've done a really good job of just letting us know the updates in the summer. I find that really helpful.

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: And the gravity situation. Oh yeah. I mean, I'm super happy for you guys to work it out, you know, but I mean, it just worked on our Right. Hard

[Speaker 0]: In many ways, I mean, you're physically, you're physically,

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: And years ago, when Senator Florey was chair of this committee, we couldn't even get Rutland Fair to come in because they were having such challenges down there. And the first thing she'd say was, Where's that Rutland Fair? Why aren't they coming in? And nobody wanted to come in because they couldn't explain what was happening. I call them life fairs. I don't do anything for any of them as far as on the ground. But they're all volunteers. Watching what these guys are going through is really disheartening. It really is because there's got to be a light at the end of the tunnel for them. I just don't know what it is.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: I get it. They've worked so hard over the past ten years to get to where It's they a phenomenal success story. It is. Phenomenal success story.

[Speaker 0]: Then just when you got there, had the three acre. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: And I think it was to be honest, as their lobbyists, I let that get by me. Who knew? And then I found that 35 page list with four of them on it and I went, this is incredible that they would pull these guys in. They were over three acres. And now, we talk a lot about it at our meetings because once that side of the state gets done, I've got two or three fairs on the other side where we're going be looking at nitrogen and the same problems. They're kind of sitting there going, Oh, please fix this before we get over to that side. None of them are not going to be, all of them will be affected eventually. Just Well, depends on

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: apparently why we got looked at too is know Thumpert's mom says, If you can't say something nice, don't say enough shawl, but the city of Rolland didn't do too much to get started on this. They had some warning to actually live in the town. We did a few things in the town. When this, we had a really proactive road commissioner that really wanted, and we did a couple of things at the school, and we had a couple of ropes that we knew went into this brook that goes through the fairgrounds, so we did some things that's, you know, just, it kinda put us in return, you know, and so that's I think why we got leaned into that fast, but,

[Speaker 0]: you know. Choices have consequences, right? Unfortunately. Alright, well, we should end on a high note, I'm so confident or I hope, and it sounds like the systems are getting better at least, because this is a new program for the state. But thank you for your perseverance and we will be here and you can contact me in the summer if you like. Sure.

[Scott Bushey (Bondville Fair representative)]: I'm glad

[Jackie Folsom (Lobbyist/Secretary, Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: to take any of you down to that fair and walk you around. I'd love to show you what they're dealing with. But please go to any of the fairs.

[Cindi Cota-Hart (Addison County Fair & Field Days)]: It would be easy

[Rick McCurrier (Vermont State Fair/Rutland)]: to see, that's one thing that was really nice when we had that meeting, is we walked everybody through, and even the gentlemen from V trains. We walked over and I said, We can't get something done with this culvert, it's really, all the rest of it may become immune. And he says, I'm pretty 100%. The Sage is gonna fix a bridge that they have to fix before they're gonna fix this culvert. I mean, I can understand that. Just don't put us out of business in the process. Right, right. Okay. Thank you. And maybe luck. Tim.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Tim, before

[Unidentified Committee Member]: you work, is John Buc still at Pivotal?

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair)]: He is a neighbor of ours, and we see him every once in a while now. He's a great guy. He's a big computer. I've

[Speaker 0]: with