Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Speaker 0]: All

[Speaker 1]: right, good afternoon. It is Wednesday, 02/11/2026, and this is the Senate Committee on Institutions. And today is have two items on the agenda. The first one is a report or status update, whatever you want to provide for us from the Vermont Coalition for Disability Rights and we'll introduce ourselves so that you know who we are. I'm Wendy Harrison and I represent the Windham District down in the Southeast corner of the state.

[Speaker 2]: John Benson, I represent the Orange District. Senator Russ Ingalls, Essex District.

[Speaker 1]: And our two other members will join us, they're at a press conference right now.

[Speaker 3]: So

[Speaker 1]: if you would like to say your name and where you're from for the record and then just let us know what you think we should know.

[Speaker 0]: And thank you very much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Lindsay St. Amore, I'm the Executive Director at Disability Rights Vermont. I'm from Morrisville, so Illinois County. I've been with Disability Rights Vermont for about thirteen years now. I am an attorney at Disability Rights Vermont. We're the protection and advocacy agency for the state. So, if you're not familiar with that, every state has a P and A. We're 90% federally funded to investigate abuse and neglect and serious rights violations anywhere where someone is receiving treatment. In Vermont, a lot of that work does happen in corrections. We have a unique federal access authority that allows us to go inside correctional facilities, inpatient psychiatric facilities, and really anywhere that anybody is receiving treatment. So, we've been inside solitary confinement and really trying to work with our prison population to make sure their rights are being protected and that they're not being discriminated against if they have a disability. I'm also the vice president of the Vermont Coalition for Disability Rights, which is why we're here today for Disability Advocacy Day. Every year we do try and identify a theme that will resonate with legislators, with community members, with one another, just about the importance of keeping disability in the front of line as you make policy decisions. It's always surprising to me how that doesn't happen, even though disability is the largest minority group. It's also the only minority group that you can become a part of at any time across the lifespan, and regardless of gender, regardless of income status, anyone can be a part of the disability community. So, just makes sense to start really with our policy decisions and lawmaking at that foundational level where we just try to make sure that our policies are having an equitable impact across all types of abilities. So, our theme this year was write disability rights into every bill. In looking at this committee, I didn't see any particular bills or anything that I needed to address, so I wanted to just offer, particularly from Disability Rights Vermont's perspective, the opportunity to just be a resource for you all, again, of the uniqueness that we have and really being involved with the Department of Corrections and our institutions. Okay, so I wanted to just highlight some of the work that we've done over the years in corrections, as you maybe are presented with new ideas or other issues within the prison system. Back in 2006, we had a self harm litigation settlement where DOC had to develop new policies and procedures that made it so that you could not be disciplined for engaging in self harm behavior. So, you couldn't pick up disciplinary reports for engaging in those type of behaviors where the person really needed treatment and not discipline. Because that could prolong somebody's release from incarceration, which when you're incarcerated, that brings on a whole new host of struggles and difficulties, particularly with types of disabilities. We had another agreement around detox, where DOC has developed new policies and procedures around monitoring prisoners, and that was following a death of a prisoner. So, that's another big practice that we have is doing death investigations and trying to highlight any themes or concerns that we may need to raise with the department to try and improve systems to prevent future deaths. And we also had a settlement agreement where individuals who were identified as needing, they really needed to be in a hospital, but somehow ended up in corrections. They were identified as delayed placement persons. So, if after, within seventy two hours, those individuals are supposed to be moved into a hospital because corrections is not the best place to serve somebody who is having a mental health crisis. And then they alert Disability Rights Vermont if that doesn't happen quickly. Do you mind any questions? Did you go? Yeah, sure. Yeah. And I know that we have limited time, so- Yeah, that's fine.

[Speaker 1]: I'm glad that you're in the buildings, that you're in the, units. The last one that you talked about, as far as, mental health, My understanding is we do not have enough mental health facilities. So, where do the people go?

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, so that is a really complicated issue. And I know that that is a very common, I'm gonna say misunderstanding, out of an abundance of respect. But I think we have enough mental health facilities. The problem though that a lot of folks don't hear about is that there's many people in those facilities at the highest level of care who don't have a place to go in the community and are stuck there. So, there's actually, in any given facility, and even when you talk to just general hospitals last year, I had a conversation with the administration at the University of Vermont Medical Center, and he said on any given day, they have 50 to 60 people in the hospital that don't need to be there. And that's because they don't have a place to go in the community. When you talk about inpatient psychiatric facilities, that's even worse. And so there's people stuck in those facilities. And the issue is we need to build community capacity and support to get those individuals out to keep kind of people moving through the system. It's the same reason why we see people boarding emergency departments. Unfortunately, in Vermont, you have to go to an emergency department to get to that next level of care. And when those beds, you know, aren't being cycled through as they should because they have place to go in the community, I think that's where, like, the misunderstanding comes in is we do have beds. They're just, they're just utilized right now by people who don't actually need that level of care because we aren't supporting them in the community. That

[Speaker 1]: is really interesting. And I'm aware of that in the hospitals, but I wasn't aware of that in a psychiatric facility.

[Speaker 0]: Oh, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It's, it's the community, community based supports, of course, are something that we really advocate for probably the most because that would alleviate a lot of these burdens that we're having inside facilities. Facilities are the most costly way to treat or care or supervise anybody. And so, think if we wanna be more fiscally responsible and just treat people better, it would be investing in community based supports earlier on. It also ties into the work that we do corrections. So, some of the litigation, and I will provide Ken with my written testimony the day that'll wake from me, but it will kind of give you a summary of all these different pieces of litigation that we've had in these settlement agreements. Great. Many of which are for people who are in corrections, who could be in the community, maybe they've reached their minimum, but they're not able to get into the community because there isn't supported housing for them. So, they're stuck because they've got mental health support needs. And that really creates like a disservice to the community and to the individual. It's a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act, like, at the very basic, but it also sets up that person in the community for a failure if all of a sudden that person maxes out. Then there's just no supervision. Then you have to release them because it's required, because the person has maxed out their sentence. You literally can't hold them any longer. But, if that person who could have been in the community but for a need for support had gotten that support, was able to be out, was able to also have that additional oversight and supervision to help get them through and help them be more successful. I mean, that just is a better outcome for everybody. Sure. So that is another piece that we are pretty actively involved in. We get calls from prisoners or letters usually that say like, oh, I'm stuck. It could have been out. We've worked with folks who have been in that situation for years. And then usually it's a human rights complaint and then maybe they'll proceed the litigation if necessary. And often times, that support's found. The money and the resources to help that person is found and they're able to get out. But it requires a level of intervention that really shouldn't be necessary. Ken Russell, who is the executive director of Another Way, was going to join you today because he also identified an issue. For those who aren't familiar another way, is a peer run support here in Montpelier that offers people with psychiatric disabilities a place to go to get food, to take showers, to get clothes, just to be able to help meet their own needs. And they work with a lot of folks who are exiting the correctional system. And he said that one thing that might be really nice is to consider legislation that would ensure people exiting the correctional system have identification. Because that can be a real barrier to employment, to accessing benefits, to Right,

[Speaker 1]: we're actually working on that.

[Speaker 0]: Oh, good. Okay, good.

[Speaker 1]: I know. ID's, driver's license or the

[Speaker 0]: Excellent. Yeah. My colleague at the Vermont Center for Independent Living said that she read some more about it and I was like, well, I'm gonna mention it because I'm not sure, so that's fantastic. That's definitely something we've seen happen in other states that could be really, really beneficial for this population, where we really want people to be to be successful in their communities, and I think providing people with the support that they want to do that can start within the correctional system. So, didn't touch on everything. I know that we only had a little bit of time. We did, our most recent litigation was settled and it related to, assistive devices like hearing aids and making sure that people had, access to that when there were issues with people's hearing devices that they were able to be fixed, remedied, and returned. Worked with someone who did not have proper hearing aids for ten or eleven months, and in that process, when they couldn't hear a correctional officer say something, they would get disciplinary report. So, trying to address some of those inequities in the system and safety concerns as well. So, we do a lot. I will stop there. So,

[Speaker 4]: you said a

[Speaker 5]: lot. Yeah, sorry.

[Speaker 4]: No, it's nothing wrong with that at all. And you're right, we don't have any facility, really. Some, we've done some of the work well, we have the front porch in Newport, which we put in, which we're very proud of. And so I think one of the reasons why we haven't really been able to do anything with the state, because there's just been so much disagreement about what's needed and what type of fund does it show. In your perfect world, the 50 or 60 people that are camped out and in the hospitals, would they be in a structured type system to where they were, in a sense, incarcerated so that they would not be able to go out and come and go as they want? Or what would your preference be as far as these 50 or 60 people? My main thing is that if we're going to do something, we should work to solve the problem of why they're in the state that they're in. Because I think it's fixable, but what what how do you see that working?

[Speaker 0]: Well, agree with you 100%. I think we have to try I think Vermont has been stuck in a reactive mindset or approach to solving our problems where we're like, okay, now we need to figure out what to do with all these people in crisis. What do we do? We need more facilities because they're deteriorated to the point where they need this high level of care. But instead, we should be saying, let's be proactive. How do we make sure people get care even before they think they need it? Like, we should be proactive in schools. We should be proactive with families. We should just be proactive in offering care and support before there's a crisis and before there's a need to intervene. And I think that comes with a really strong investment in community based services and trying to make sure that people have access to just regular healthcare or healthcare costs are astronomical. And I think, you know, people are prevented from just seeking regular primary care support. There's a lack of availability of counseling. And I think just making, I think conversations and education and talking about it and trying to reduce the stigma associated with seeking help and trying to get services and supports. I think there's a lot of that. And people try to manage their own needs internally, especially when we talk about mental health. And I think having a broader conversation about how how it really is a matter that impacts us all and to just start investing as early on as possible so that you're not dealing with 50 or 60 folks who ended up in a need for urgent or emergency services. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I I hope

[Speaker 6]: that answers your question. We do Well,

[Speaker 4]: yeah, it does. It does what you think, and I think it's broad, which is fine. There's no right or wrong answer. It's just lots of times what we try to have to do, we have to figure out the level of You're in it. It's what you're doing. You're in it. We have to figure out, at some point in time We've worked on this for a long time. We've worked on this committee. We've worked on other committees, and we've had the We had the deals done, I don't really know or understand why they did go through. We did have a facility, an eight beds facility that I worked out with Jane Kitchell and Dick Sears. For some reason, that never went through. I think the biggest hurdle is that we just haven't yet come to a public decision yet about are we just gonna let these folks that are in crisis just free range? Are we gonna let them just keep on going in and out, in and out, in and out, or are we gonna hold them a little bit accountable? And again, it's not being that they're doing anything bad. And so when I say hold them accountable, but are we going to have them stay on the medication that they need, get the helps that they need, make sure that they're at their appointments. Are we going to do that on a voluntary basis? Or are we going to do it to where we're going to actually build a structure and have the structure to where, Well, I'm sorry, God, you're It's such a fine line as far as between public erosion of somebody being able to live their lives. How much are you going to hold them accountable? Not in a bad way, but are you going to make sure that there are meetings because we just can't keep on rotating around and around and around. At some point in time, these 50 or 60 people have to get better. And where is that level of participation from us, from them, from government, from private industry? How are we gonna make them better and how are we gonna make sure that they're better?

[Speaker 0]: Yeah. I mean, that's like obviously an enormous question

[Speaker 4]: It is, it's more a comment than it is

[Speaker 7]: But I'd

[Speaker 2]: like to build on that because I sit on health and welfare. And what we spent a bit of time actually today talking about is substance abuse, and I see this as sort of a similar sort of thing. Have this high intensity care that's needed initially, but then the people still need support, but they're let out and what they end up is right back into that high care. But you know what we were talking about today and we had testimony from a number of individuals who were victims of substance abuse, went through the treatment, through these homes that basically are set up to help them to do exactly what Senator Ingalls was talking about, make sure they're taking their medication, make sure they have counseling support when they need it, to be sure they get to their appointments. Many of them are holding jobs, but they're coming to a safe place where there's somebody there who understands their needs and works with them on counseling till they basically gotten to the point where they can be back on their own in society and be contributing members of society. So, I mean, as I listened to this, I saw a real parallel there to what's going on in that other venue.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I mean, I think there just needs to be more of that. There needs to be more, investment in those types of, pilot programs or, you know, like the front porch in St. John's where I think it is on the Newport. And also there's another one in Burlington now. But I think, like, making those investments and then seeing, I think, like, coming from a place of support and not and not judgment goes goes a long way. And I know that there's that tension between, you know, like, how do we also ensure that people are stepping up to the plate also themselves? Because, you know, we can only do so much, but we also have to have, like, personal investment into, like, this being success in a successful endeavor.

[Speaker 4]: If you don't hold them somewhat accountable and again, that's not a great word, but I've explained myself to where I'm trying to minimize how dangerous I'm trying to say. But if you don't help them to become better, you're never gonna fix that problem. You're gonna keep on having the same 50 or 60 people rotating in and out, in and out, and in and out, and, you know, and our goal, it's just like, you know, it's why we have and I think that, again, Senator Benson's, you know, comments about, making people better and holding them accountable and all that, in recovery, you do make them better. I think that is where we haven't gotten to in this situation where you have so many people showing up. We haven't come up with the right plan yet to make sure that these people can heal. Right. Yeah,

[Speaker 0]: and sorry to be to undercut. That's I part of what's so unique about mental health and disabilities in general is like, there's kind of a saying where if you meet a person with autism, you've met one person with autism. Everybody's disability is unique and different to them. So, I think as we think about supports, like, we almost have to think really broadly. Like, we just know that we need to invest in services and supports in the community. Not that we need to invest in this particular model, but rather like, okay, we've got this amount of funding that we can contribute, and then we're gonna talk to Joe and Sally and so and so and say, what do you need? Like, this is this is the Yeah.

[Speaker 4]: I agree with that, but it's gonna be a plan that that dictates results. It has to be something because you just can't you know, the monies aren't available. You're you're doing a disservice by not healing people for one, And you're and you're you're doing a disservice to them, and you're doing a disservice to the taxpayer. So it has to be a plan that makes people better, and there's accountability.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah. And I think and I think if you come up with a plan where there's, like, that's person centered and the person is invested in the plan, that is going to be far more successful than a plan that's kind of forged on them that they didn't help create. And so I think, like, I think it's just a, it's such a broader conversation.

[Speaker 4]: Yeah, good combination. I get it, and you've been, you've been fun to talk with.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, and I would love to talk more about it, I'm happy to.

[Speaker 2]: Did you look over here, many of these people were in the hearing earlier that we were talking about, and the substance abuse and the programs. There's

[Speaker 0]: a lot of overlap. Today is a big day. It's suicide prevention, it's a recovery day, it's disability advocacy day, and those worlds intersects like more than I can begin to talk about and I'm already out of time.

[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that's okay. I mean, you're not, you don't have to, I want to, do you have

[Speaker 2]: any Well, just let me know. Yeah. Being in the hospital is about the most expensive treatment that you can have so anything that we can do, look at a program, I don't know whether you've investigated what other states are doing in terms of the mental health treatment outside of the hospital settings, but would certainly be something as Senator Ingalls said, if we could have a plan, here's how we move forward, because we all want these people to do better.

[Speaker 4]: Well, we need them to do better. We need them to do better for themselves. We need them to do better because it's a level of frustration when you're clogging up the other places where they shouldn't be. They shouldn't be there. Healthcare But is a complicated situation so you do with what you can do. We have dealt with this for a long, long time and at some point in time we're going to have to figure out how we're going do our job.

[Speaker 1]: Sooner rather than later. I just wanted to touch base quickly about the corrections part of your job, So your how often are you in the facilities?

[Speaker 0]: So, we we were in the facilities, we go to every facility, try to get to everyone at least once or twice a year before the pandemic, and then we started doing a lot more outreach via mail and having people sign up and write letters and communicate on the phone via letters. And then we'll go on an as needed basis. So, you start hearing concerns or feel like we need to go to a particular facility, we kind of switch gears and go through that. We don't have a set schedule.

[Speaker 1]: So are you going, do you have a, I just personally think it would be good if you were able to be there in person.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I mean really helpful because Yeah. Even for folks, especially for folks that are in segregation, they're not signing up and they're not calling. Right. So we would have to go put eyes on those individuals. For sure.

[Speaker 1]: Well, so I urge you to do as much as you can because it's valuable. And do you communicate with us with this committee? I mean, it's great that you're here today.

[Speaker 0]: Yeah.

[Speaker 1]: But I it would be helpful to have regular messages from you or you come back. Yeah,

[Speaker 0]: would love to come back and we'll reach out with anything. I mean, we do, like I mentioned, a lot of death investigations. Right. So, that's something that we have a lot

[Speaker 8]: of information about, recommendations around.

[Speaker 1]: Actually, so let's have that on our agenda when we talk to you next because we do have an elderly population. So it's understandable that we have deaths, but it's really important that we make sure that there's not a way that we're not letting that happen. Would love that. So

[Speaker 2]: I'm not going to tell you how to do your job.

[Speaker 9]: Okay. These folks put

[Speaker 2]: this together, part of what we heard, I don't know whether you've looked at some of these and how that program works and so forth, if it's, you can have this because I have it online, but it might spur some ideas on how you develop something similar for mental health. Thank

[Speaker 0]: you so much. Thanks for coming. Thank you.

[Speaker 1]: Okay. Next are the recovery partners of Vermont.

[Speaker 0]: And so if you would

[Speaker 1]: take a seat and introduce yourself for the record.

[Speaker 6]: And chair, if you don't mind, I just want the committee to know you have a big lineup. My house action circles.

[Speaker 0]: Oh my. So some peep yeah.

[Speaker 6]: Some people are waiting to well, they will come in when they leave. Oh, okay. Yeah.

[Speaker 1]: Okay. So we should

[Speaker 10]: that's a letter.

[Speaker 0]: That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just letting you

[Speaker 6]: there will be more people shuffling in.

[Speaker 0]: Okay. Yeah. Thank

[Speaker 1]: you. And, and tell them they're welcome to come in.

[Speaker 0]: I, well- But

[Speaker 1]: maybe it's

[Speaker 0]: too tight.

[Speaker 6]: No, you don't realize. Sit proud. Yeah. Lucy. There's a lot

[Speaker 0]: of people. I'll tell some of them.

[Speaker 2]: Size we had this morning.

[Speaker 0]: Oh, not quite. Not quite. So

[Speaker 1]: let's get started.

[Speaker 6]: All right.

[Speaker 1]: So I'm Wendy Harrison. I put because you weren't here when we introduced ourselves, I'm in the Windham District.

[Speaker 4]: John Benson, Orange District. Russ

[Speaker 7]: Ingalls from the Northeast, Kingston.

[Speaker 3]: Okay. And I'm Susie Walker. I'm the executive director for the Recovery Partners of Vermont. I'm a woman in long term recovery, and I live in Brattleboro. Oh, great. Your little Windham corner of the world. Great. So thank you for having us here today. I'm speaking today on behalf of the Pure Recovery System. It's really meaningful to be speaking on recovery day. Our recovery, our system of recovery service organizations, our recovery centers are in the process of becoming certified, and our certified recovery residences work closely with our treatment provider partners to provide a safety net for people changing their lives to adopt a recovery lifestyle. Let's see. Our system has grown in both size and sophistication in recent years. Recovery centers have expanded their recovery services in rural areas and have some of them, several of them have satellite offices. And the new recovery residences are established in proximity to recovery centers so that there's that system of support around someone. The recovery centers and the residences work quite closely together, particularly through their leadership and the recovery coaching programs. Their lived experience, not only as people in recovery from the ills of substance use, but also as people who benefited from Vermont's recovery system, is instrumental to our organization's ability to help people. You'll be hearing today testimonies representing the full scope of recovery programming in our state. We're talking today, you'll hear from people who are involved in the recovery coaching program in the system, which is doing amazing work and is now more around the state than it was previously, and it provides such a good connection for people while they're incarcerated as well as when they're going through that, what can be challenging transition to reenter the community. We work again with our treatment provider partners, and

[Speaker 5]: you may know

[Speaker 3]: recovery organizations are connected with myriad agencies and other partners in their communities to provide the safety net of support. We're asking for your support for our FY twenty seven budget request to help support local recovery services. We're first asking that you renew the $800,000 recovery centers received in prevention funds in the current year. This renewal would level fund the recovery centers and preserve the services at a time when recovery centers are seeing increased demand. Recovery centers are also requesting your support for the Vermont Department of Health's recommendation to appropriate $1,250,000 in FY27 opioid abatement funds to continue the successful peer recovery coaching program within our correctional facilities. Connection is key to the success of peer recovery services, and this connection to corrections facilities helps people reconnect with the community and gain a firm foothold. Our final ask is for Vermont's certified recovery residences to support these two opioid abatement appropriations. For FY twenty seven, one point seven five million for ongoing operational support for the growing number of certified residences. That's the current residences and the ones that will come online this year, and $250,000 to provide scholarships to cover first month fees and gaps that people might have if they're still looking for employment in rural areas that's harder to find. Scholarships can provide that continuous stability for people. Let me see. Trying to shorten that. Let's see. But we're also talking a lot about S one fifty seven. And that recognizes in brief, it recognizes that recovery residences are different from your typical rental housing. So the landlord tenant situation is very different. Right. And so, in a recovery residence, there are standards and accountability and a community of support that really help people. And so, you'll hear today from some people who have that direct lived experience with perhaps treatment as well as recovery residents as well as being supported by coaches at recovery centers. That's enough to get us going That's good. That's very helpful, and so

[Speaker 1]: know exactly what your asks are. That's great. And thank you for being here. Sure.

[Speaker 3]: Thank you very much. Does anybody have questions?

[Speaker 0]: Okay.

[Speaker 10]: Yes.

[Speaker 1]: Thank you for being here. So if you can just tell us your name and your organization.

[Speaker 5]: Sure. Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Good afternoon, chair and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here and for your continued support of Recovery Housing and Recovery Services in Vermont. My name is Candice Gale and I serve as the Director of Community Relations for Vermont Foundation of Recovery, often referred to as V4 V4. Is a member organization of Recovery Partners of Vermont, and we work closely with providers, advocates,

[Speaker 6]: and people with lived

[Speaker 5]: experience across the state to strengthen and expand Vermont's recovery ecosystem. I want to begin by thanking this committee and the legislature for your past support of the certified recovery residences. That support has helped Vermont move from having very few certified recovery homes just a few years ago to a growing accountable system that is saving lives, stabilizing individuals, and strengthening communities. I'll start with a brief snapshot of the current recovery housing landscape in Vermont. Vermont Foundation of Recovery operates 10 certified recovery homes across the state, providing a total of 79 recovery beds. These homes serve men, women, and parents with children, and are located in multiple regions to ensure access where it is most needed. Statewide, Vermont has approximately 150 recovery residence beds. While that represents meaningful progress, it remains far below the actual need. Certified Recovery Residences consistently operate at a near full capacity and wait lists

[Speaker 4]: are

[Speaker 5]: common. The Division of Substance Use within the Department of Health has identified Recovery Housing as a critical component of Vermont's continuum of care and has set a statewide goal of reaching 400 recovery residents beds by 2030. That goal reflects what providers and people with lived experience see every day. Recovery outcomes depend not only on treatment, but on safe structured housing during early recovery. V4 is positioned to help meet that need. We are actively pursuing expansion opportunities in Middlebury and Brattleboro as our next priority communities, based on identified gaps and strong local partnerships. Our ability to scale responsibly, however, depends on policy alignment and sustainable funding.

[Speaker 11]: Next, please.

[Speaker 5]: That brings me to S157. S157 is a landlord tenant exemption bill that recognizes the unique nature of certified recovery residences and allows them to follow credentialed discharge policies that protect both individual dignity and community safety. Recovery residences are not treatment facilities. They are pure based structured living environments that rely on shared standards, accountability, and community safety to function effectively. The current application of landlord tenant law creates the real barriers for certified recovery residences. It limits an operator's ability to respond appropriately to relapse, unsafe behavior, or violations of house standards, and can undermine the safety and stability of the entire recovery community. S-one 157 provides a narrowly tailored standards based solution that aligns with national best practices and allows certified recovery residences to operate as intended. If Vermont is serious about reaching 400 recovery housing beds by 2030, Policy alignment through S-one 157 is essential. Without it, expansion will remain slow and uncertain in many communities. In addition to policy alignment, sustainable funding is equally critical. I am hearing clearly and directly ask the legislature to support the Opiate Settlement Advisory Council's FY27 recommendations related to recovery housing. Specifically, are asking you to support 1,750,000.00 in operational funding for certified recovery residences and support 200,000 in scholarship funding to help individuals access recovery housing. These funding streams serve distinct but complementary purposes. Operational funding ensures certified recovery residences can maintain safe staffing levels, meet certification standards, and cover rising costs related to utilities, insurance, maintenance, and compliance. Scholarship funding addresses one of the most common barriers to entry. Many people leaving treatment or incarceration do not have the financial means to pay upfront costs for housing. Scholarships help bridge that gap and ensure recovery housing is accessible based on need, not income. Together, these investments support a system that is accountable, accessible, and scalable. In closing, I respectfully ask this committee and the legislature to support S-one 157 to ensure policy alignment that allows certified recovery residences to expand responsibly and OSAC's FY twenty seven recommendations of 1,750,000.00 for recovery resident residence operations and 200,000 for recovery housing scholarships. Thank you for your time, your leadership, and your continued commitment to recovery in Vermont. I'm happy to answer any questions.

[Speaker 1]: Thank you. Thank you for your leadership and commitment. Really appreciate it. Thank you. Absolutely.

[Speaker 0]: Yes.

[Speaker 2]: One question. So as I heard several weeks ago that the federal program underneath, what is it, Medicare, was going to extend the period of time in which payments would be available for treatment. How does that, I guess I'd like to know a little more about that since it's federal a program and I'm wondering how that fits into your funding, pieces.

[Speaker 5]: Sure, so, I can't directly speak on that because, treatment and recovery are different. So I'm just speaking about recovery, not treatment side.

[Speaker 2]: It seems to me that that included part of that is the treatment, no? That's all even the hospital?

[Speaker 12]: That's crazy.

[Speaker 6]: Yeah, Meg Phos actually, I can answer that, you're asking about the fourteen day Medicaid issue which is with treatment facilities.

[Speaker 2]: Yeah, thought that I heard something about extending it out like seventy five days or something.

[Speaker 6]: That could be true, but that would still happen in treatment facilities, not recovery residences, yes. Very good question.

[Speaker 1]: Is there a limit on how long people can stay at recovery residences?

[Speaker 5]: So, for V4, you can stay for up to a year in our recovery residence. And then we also have transitional apartments, where you can stay an additional year. And in once you get into our transitional apartments, you can furnish your own home, you start to pay for your utilities yourself, and you can have children and or partners join you as well. Great. And pets?

[Speaker 1]: That's a hard question. You don't need to answer.

[Speaker 5]: I'm not gonna answer right now.

[Speaker 1]: Okay. That's great. It's definitely

[Speaker 2]: That is expensive.

[Speaker 1]: It's good to know some of the details. Thank For sure. Are we good? Okay. Thank you very much for being Okay. So whoever's next?

[Speaker 10]: Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you, Chair Harrison and members of committee. I have submitted written testimony and I won't read it to you. It's fairly detailed, but I would like to be able to hit a few high points.

[Speaker 1]: Yeah, you need to let us know who you are, please.

[Speaker 10]: I'm sorry. I'm Jeff Moreau.

[Speaker 1]: I know you've been here before.

[Speaker 10]: I am Jeff Moreau. I'm the Executive Director of the Vermont Alliance for Recovered Residences. Thank you. As I say, I have written testimony that I've submitted. There are a few high level points I'd like to hit on and then I want to be available to have a dialogue with you in case there is some issues, particularly around S-one 100. The first point I want to make is that this legislature has made an incredible investment in recovery in the last number of years. And we are so grateful for your leadership in that area. Recovery housing is really expanding. We wouldn't be able to do it without our partners that operate the recovery centers. One

[Speaker 0]: thing

[Speaker 10]: that I'm particularly excited about, that I'll talk a little more about, is stabilization beds for when someone has a recurrence of their disease. They now have a place to go in Vermont. And that's something that we've advocated for for years, and you folks have supported and now that is in place. So we're making really good progress is the message. The money that we've asked for here today is not new money. It's money that we've gotten year after year. The way it's set up, we have to ask through the opioid payment funds and the prevention funds for that to be renewed. It's absolutely critical to our ability to continue this important work.

[Speaker 1]: Are you okay with questions? Sure.

[Speaker 4]: I don't know that we really have put as much money to you as we needed to do. I think I see the input as far as increases on you folks. And I'm hoping that in this new amount of billion dollars worth of dollars that we're getting from the federal government that money is in their earmark for you folks. I do see that we're doing all kinds of things with funds previous to those dollars, but I there needs a I think there needs to be more monies going back into recovery. Do you see any of those, this $195,000,000 a year coming to you as far as into funds to where we could further recovery efforts? Absolutely. I was just

[Speaker 10]: on a call yesterday with the Department of Health, specifically the Department of Substance Use Disorder. And I don't have all the details, but there's some federal funding that would draw down $8,000,000 a year for the next five years for this rural health transformation. And one of the buckets in there is relative to recovery housing. And what's really exciting now is to see the leadership not only at the legislative level, but at the health department level around recovery housing. Prior, it's been supportive through federal pass through and very supportive of our work, but not a lot of focus. Today I'm really happy to say there's tremendous focus. You heard Candice say that there is a goal to get to 400 certified recovery beds that's being driven through the department's strategic plan. So we're really excited to see the potential of the funds coming through and the leadership to make all of that happen. I do want to just highlight for you in that same vein, prior to 2019, Recovery Housing in Vermont just kind of did its own thing. There was absolutely no oversight. And a group of community leaders in the recovery field came together and identified the National Alliance for Recovery Residences, which sets standards based on best practices for certification. And so in essence, we are the Vermont affiliate of that national organization and we now manage a voluntary certification program for any home that wants to get certified. Everybody wants to get certified because now we have these funding streams including the scholarships that you heard about. There is HUD funding that's coming into the state, almost $1,000,000 each year to invest in bricks and mortar for recovery housing. And what we're seeing there before, which is one of the operators, our largest, they're about half of our certified homes. They've partnered with a local housing provider, whether it's down street housing here in Washington County or Champlain Housing Trust in Chitney County. And those housing providers have access to that HUD funding and they have expertise in housing. So they acquire the property, they rehab it, and they lease it to be for a very reasonable rate to be able to do the program. So it's a beautiful partnership that we've been working through the last three years. It's been critical to our ability to expand. So the final thing I wanted to hit on and hopefully answer any questions that you may have is you hear about this bill S-one 157 and landlord tenant law and what is all this? In its simplest terms, you folks have already done the hard work. We have a partial exemption to landlord tenant where an individual that has a recurrence of their disease or violent or threatening occurrence can be removed, either temporary or permanent, and the operator of these homes don't have to go through the standard landlord tenant law. What we're asking you to do, because that bill sunsets at July 1, we're asking you to make that exemption permanent and to expand it beyond the violent threatening situations and return to use to include things like illegal behavior, not participating in the programming, sex trafficking. These are all things that we've learned over the last two years are other reasons why that person threatens the safety of everybody else in the home. So in essence, that's what we're asking you to do in the second part of that bill is to expand out that definition slightly and to codify that as a permanent exemption. The other thing that the bill does that we haven't talked much about is it codifies these national certification standards and we would fall under the health department doing that role on their behalf. So those are the two elements of the bill.

[Speaker 1]: Great. Do you know where the bill is?

[Speaker 10]: It's in Senate Health Local and

[Speaker 1]: it sounds like you've taken it up.

[Speaker 2]: Yeah, yeah, we have.

[Speaker 10]: Good. The committee has been very supportive and something that they worked on in previous years to get us to this point.

[Speaker 1]: That makes sense to have had that short term language, so now we update it because you now have experience on what you need.

[Speaker 10]: Part of the bill required data collection so that the legislature's be informed each year of the number of exits, types of exits. I saw a draft of the report from the health department today, so they're ready to get back to you. So that will be forthcoming. And I think you'll see we've done the hard work and documented that. The last thing that's really important to say is, I have spoken about the national standards. In Vermont, you can be really proud that you have forced us to go above and beyond these national standards with additional language that's in statute that requires when the individual comes into the home, we sit down with them, we go over their rights, how they could be removed and all that sort of thing, and we ask them, help us with a self directed relapse plan. Where would you go if you had a recurrence? We're going to document that, so when if, when and that, if that happens, we pull that out and say, Jeff, you know that you were going to stay with grandma. Well, grandma's not available. So oftentimes a lot of these homes that they've done the last two years is they have found a place before using one of those apartments that they talked about as a safety net for that individual. So I can say to you, whereas maybe I couldn't have three years ago, but I can say to you today, no one was discharged to homelessness. We had someone testify this morning about her previous history. She runs a recovery center now, but back in the day she was asked to leave and she had a certain amount of time, and that's the way it worked before 2019. Now we have that self directed plan. We've asked the homes to have a backup plan. I want to circle back to those stabilization beds that I was so happy about at the beginning of my testimony. That's the ultimate safety net. And they are located in our treatment centers at Valley Vista and at Serenity House. So if someone is waiting to get into a recovery house or they have a recurrence or whatever reason, they can utilize those reengagement meds and get support. It's not treatment, it's just simply a safe place to be able to go and have access to some professionals to figure out what your next steps are. I don't want to get out too far ahead of my skis, but to answer your previous question about treatment, we came to you folks for the longest time in Vermont and screamed that two weeks is not enough. And yet the department's stance was we can treat people in the community. And I would argue that works really well maybe for medically assisted treatment where you're getting a medication, but we have to remember that alcohol is still our largest substance that people are using. You can't just take a pill to manage that. So my understanding is that the state has moved more towards what's medically necessary for that individual, but they also have a step down that allows people to stay for a longer period of time, which is really exciting. If you can't tell, I'm just so proud of what this state has done, how far we've come in such a short time, and recovery housing comes in as that next step. So previously we had this cycle of individuals, they weren't ready when they went into a recovery residence. They didn't have the recovery capital. We were doing this rinse and repeat sort of thing, and we're seeing less of that today because people are more prepared when they get to a recovery house. I lost my nephew to an overdose, and I think it's fair to say if he hadn't gone back to the environment that was fueling that addiction with a large trauma and so forth, he would have been better off and he didn't avail himself to this type of resource. And that's where I think we make the biggest differences. Once you get people through treatment, what's next? And that's what we're here for.

[Speaker 1]: Well, thank you so much. And it's good to know that we're on the right track. Yes. I appreciate

[Speaker 10]: the vote of confidence. You can always use more money. And, you know but It comes with your responsibility.

[Speaker 4]: Right? It comes with your responsibility. I talked at Ben's house here a while ago. And it comes with the responsibility of you saying to when you're in these rooms and they're passing you out money and they want you to do this and do that and do this and do that, then you all need to be collectively strong enough to say no. That's not the way it works. It works this way.

[Speaker 2]: It works this way. This is what

[Speaker 4]: we wanna do. I know that you want us to do this over here, but that isn't the path to recovery. And you folks have to be strong in that way. And you have to say, we know how to do this. Let us do it. Don't don't allow anybody to come in there and say, but we want you to try this because all you do is burn up millions of dollars and we lose lives. So we know how to do it.

[Speaker 7]: Well

[Speaker 10]: said. Well said. I think to be very pointed, the thing we need most is to get this landlord tenant issue addressed. I have a provider that is well known as New Hampshire. And in New Hampshire they treat these homes as group homes. So it's different everywhere. But once I told him about, hey, you have to do all these things and you can't just ask someone to leave, he said I won't come to Vermont. And so this bill will allow us to continue to scale to meet the need.

[Speaker 1]: Have you, are you getting resistance from folks about the bill?

[Speaker 10]: This year, I have to say the support is incredible. And I think when we get it done, finally two years ago, it felt really good. We've been working at this for about ten years. Yeah. And there has been pushback over the years and fairly so, because as I say, prior to 2019, we didn't really it's a little bit of Wild West, but then we have the guardrails in place and I feel confident saying to you today that we can do this the right way.

[Speaker 1]: That's terrific. I think a lot of the issues are because we don't know. We, you know, we speculate about what it's going to be like, but you actually have information now and you have experience in what's happening and you can share that with folks who are still concerned. Absolutely. So thank you. I support it. You.

[Speaker 10]: Thank you folks. Pleasure.

[Speaker 1]: I'm gonna, I need to leave for another meeting, but. Okay. I'm sorry. Vice

[Speaker 12]: chair for being

[Speaker 1]: Let me just do that so I'm not interrupting your presentation. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

[Speaker 12]: Take it away when you're at it,

[Speaker 9]: unless you've done this before. Yes, I've done this before.

[Speaker 12]: But identify yourself in the future. Thank

[Speaker 8]: you for the opportunity My to speak with you name is Tracy Howe. I am from Vermont. I'm a person in long term recovery and the executive director of the Turning Point Center of Rockland. Today is Recovery Day in Vermont and I'm here to talk about the importance of our recovery coaching program within the Department of Corrections. I also want to mention two important requests from the fiscal year twenty seven budget to help support local recovery organizations. First, we are asking the legislature to renew 800,000 we received in prevention funds in fiscal year twenty six in order to level fund recovery centers and preserve current services at a time when recovery centers are facing increased demand. Also, please support the Vermont Department of Health's recommendation to appropriate 1,250,000.00 in fiscal year twenty seven opioid abatement funds to continue the successful peer recovery coaching program within our correctional facilities. I wanna start by saying how much it matters to people like me that you take time to listen to voices from the community. Recovery work is deeply humbled and I appreciate the chance to share what this funding truly means. I would like to ground this into real experience because Peer Recovery is ultimately about people, not programs. This is a story about one individual who received our services. Coachie Z, 38 years old. He has been receiving coaching at Turning Point Center, Robin for a number of years, dating at least from 2016 with a serious problem with drug use. He was incarcerated for short periods and while having a considerable amount of difficulty with his addiction, stayed in touch with us and reached out for help from us on many occasions. Although he had periods of staying in recovery and having productive employment, he had frequent relapses, but always came back to us at the end of each period. His perseverance with us and hours with him meant that he knew what he needed to do and retained a recovery focus even when he was in a very bad place. His story demonstrates the importance of just staying in contact on his part and always being available on our part. As of this time, he has been entirely clean for two years, has a safe and secure place to live, has a very good job that can turn into a career for him. Has a business plan for starting his own property management company for which he already has clients. And is close to achieving one of his main sobriety goals, which is gaining his driving privileges to open up further opportunities for himself. Where he once was so thin, as to be in great danger of dying from a number of causes, he is now a positive and healthy man with a good future in front of him. He is living proof that persistence and recovery really pays off, and that no matter how bumpy the road may be, one should never give up hope. And he didn't,

[Speaker 1]: and neither did we.

[Speaker 8]: What I just shared is not an exception. It is what peer recovery looks like every day across Vermont. Peers are people with lived experience who meet others without judgment and without an agenda. We build trust in moments when trust in systems is often broken, especially for people involved with the justice system. When someone is leaving incarceration or reporting to probation and for parole, they are often scared, overwhelmed, and at high risk. A peer can be the difference between someone shutting down and someone leaning in. Peer recovery coaching works because we show up consistently. We walk alongside people as they navigate treatment, housing, employment, family reunification, and the emotional weight of starting over. We don't replace clinical care. We strengthen it by helping people stay engaged long enough for it to work. Peer recovery coaching began in 2016 at Turning Point Center of Government serving Marble Valley Regional Correction Facility. In July 2023, I was approached by the Department of Corrections to begin discussions on how to expand this program statewide. In July 2024, grant funding was in place and recovery centers were beginning their programs in correctional facilities in their area. By February 2025, funding was provided to work with all probation and parole offices. The funding request before use was peer recovery coaching at 18 sites statewide, including six correctional facilities and 12 probation and parole locations through a partnership between Recovery Partners of Vermont and the Department of Corrections. We are also a part of the Vermont Corrections Academy. We are part of their curriculum, so we go every academy to present about recovery. This work creates continuity and care across systems instead of people being released with a phone number and a good luck. Peers help ensure that someone has support before release and continues to have support once they are back in infinity. That continuity saves lives, especially in the weeks immediately following release where overdose risk is lies. This is also about public safety. When people are supported in recovery, they are more likely to stabilize, less likely to return to incarceration, and more likely to become contributing members of their communities. The 1,250,000 request is a responsible, carefully structured investment. Over 1,000,000 goes directly to peer coaching staff, the people doing the work day in and day out. Operating costs are minimal, averaging about 1,000 per site per year and administrative costs are capped at 10%. This means the vast majority of funding goes straight to services and on overhead. From a fiscal perspective, peer recovery programs reduce costly emergency department visits, prevent relapse and overdose, and decrease recidivism. From a human perspective, they keep people alive long enough to heal and rebuild. I am here today because someone believed I was worth investing in before I believed it myself. This is what, that is what Fear Recovery does. It holds hope until someone can carry it on their own. Vermont has been a leader in recovery oriented systems of care. Supporting this 1,250,000 increase allows us to continue that leadership and ensures that recovery support is available regardless of where someone lives or whether they are involved with the justice systems. Federal dollars have funded this program in the past, but that funding ended. So the opioid abatement funds are needed to keep this program going to serve individuals within correctional facilities and local probation and parole offices. Our grants for the correctional facility coachings will be ending June 30. So without that funding, programs may stop in the correctional facilities. Please support the Vermont Departments of Health's recommendation to appropriate 1,250,000.00 in fiscal year twenty seven opioid abatement funds to continue the successful peer recovery coaching program within our correctional facilities. This is a joint request from Recovery Partners of Vermont and Vermont Department of Corrections. It reflects Vermont values, compassion, dignity, accountability, and belief in people's capacity to change. Thank you for your time, your attention, and your commitment to the people of Vermont. I'm happy to answer any questions.

[Speaker 12]: Thank you so much. And I apologize if this was a mess before I got here, but the 1,250,000.00 that's in the governor's recommended budget? Yes. And the 800,000 is also is not. So that would be separate.

[Speaker 6]: Make first action so I'd also like to just clarify. The 1.25 is actually being recommended by the department in age six sixty, which is the Bills of Opioid Abatement. So it's

[Speaker 0]: not in the government's

[Speaker 12]: Not in your government's budget. It's the bill. Yes. The support is licensed.

[Speaker 6]: Yes. Great.

[Speaker 4]: Again, dollars that might come from this $195,000,000 a year, the only thing I identify right now is $8,000,000. Is anybody can anybody have public clarity about that as far as the amount of dollars that are going to be put towards recovery from the the new federal the executable bill? Does anybody know that amount of dollars? Does anybody get full of

[Speaker 12]: that? We're sure nobody knows.

[Speaker 3]: We we went to. Well,

[Speaker 4]: it is there to be known. We just gotta leave it. But, again, it was pretty very prescriptive. So Yeah. We will find out. Yes.

[Speaker 12]: And I sort of said, you they're working on it. It's from a different. Mhmm.

[Speaker 9]: Alright. Okay. It was nice. Alright. Thank you. I

[Speaker 7]: am. Thank you, gentlemen, very much for taking time and doing this. I hope you said everyone was really busy. Introduce myself. I am Jonathan, I'm a recovery coach in justice. I'm a program lead in Springfield, Vermont, working out of that. A brief overview. I work in the Southern with men who are interested in recovery. And I really, really, really wanna say thank you for hearing from today because the impact you've done in on this month's end, the re workplace in the prison is amazing. I have one piece of paper glass. I've handed out a couple of copies. Yeah. I mean, if you have a copy machine, great. Otherwise, I I have enough committee to have to provide to a regular board. I wanna get a little bit of. Chair, vice chair, and then it's it's me. Like I said, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I really appreciate what you're doing. I'm the program leader of our recovery justice involved program currently funded. It entails here to ask you for support of EPA's recommend recommendation to appropriate $1,250,000 from the FY '27 opioid abatement funds that continue their successful care recovery function program within our correctional facilities. In your budget and my law appropriations, your support has made significant impact in the lives of the men that we serve as we walk with them in their recovery journey. My recovery sobriety date is July, I'm sorry. Yeah, 2002 is when I got sober in a hospital in Vermont. I know from experience what it's like to, get sober. I got clean and sober without a program that was here, nobody made an immense difference in my life if I had what's available today. Programs the state offers or we offer through the endpoint is not available. I know sober in in those days. So I I just wanna say thank you for what you've done in the past and what you're planning to do in the future. Is my first time testifying, so I just wanna let you know that I'm a little bit nervous. You're doing great. Thank you. We'll just thank you very much.

[Speaker 4]: Don't worry about senator Benson. He does not Yeah.

[Speaker 7]: Yeah. Yeah. So the agreement he loves. Yeah. Senator Benson, think I've met you before in the past somewhere. Are you from Southern Vermont? No. From Brookfield, R G I. Cool. Cool. Well, I hope to see you guys in the future at some point, but I don't

[Speaker 4]: wanna get off track because I

[Speaker 7]: can easily do that. We started in 2023 at Southern State Correctional Facility, and we've expanded service from a few group offerings a couple days a week to the paper you see in front of you. We coach five days a week by three coaches that we have in person. One guy does one on one, and we just hired one to work with me as recovery coach. The task going away is male, female. It's rare among a woman that is put together well enough and should work in that facility, who's in recovery. So I really honor and respect the fact she comes in. She was an amazing woman. I hope someday we're gonna be too busy this. Our staff would be incredible. The men we serve report beginning to see the power of choice around their behavior. It's a significant change for those of us who felt like difference in the world today. Really briefly, men like Mike Fieger, who started coaching in the prison and were released with very few resources and a lot of barriers. His hard work and determination is continuing with recovery coaching. He now has stable employment, has a safe house, a strong foundation for his recovery. And he's even working just today, I spoke to him this morning, a renewed connection with his adult children, whom he was a strength from. He actually got to go snow tubing last weekend, and he was very sore, but really happy. And that is directly from prison. We made that connection from prison, helped him write a reentry plan, come back into society, helped him find all these things. And that is because of the grant that I mentioned. Have why when you said that the opioid debated funds. I believe that's in the past due, correct? I don't wanna misuse anything. So please correct me if I'm wrong. Really, and another story I can tell you is, like, middle guy in his book is calling the past. And despite a long incarceration, allowed us allowed us to become a part of his life and his recovery who was involved and his involvement with recovery coaching at SSCF, me, about the relationship with him and helped him do every entry plan. He's navigated and celebrating near clean and he's positive mindset. He says, quote unquote, you guys have always been there when I needed you, and I make different choices today about how I react. This gentleman in particular was released from SSCF. When I saw him, he was arrested in clothes that he came with, and he'd been in prison for quite a number of years. So he had no clothes that didn't fit. His shoes were torn and ripped due to the arrest, And he came to our office in those girders. And we have clothes on-site that are donated by other organizations that we can clothe them, feed them, help them, you know, in all of the reentry process and recovery. And that's due to your generous generous help over the years. It's incredible. As you see these numbers right here, that's just from one quarter. That's just from one quarter. That's not a year. We can talk to so many people. And I also wanna say it out loud and note, the support from the staff at Southern State Correctional Facility has been amazing. It's incredible. Nobody wants me to name names, so I'm not going to. But I can tell you that nobody wants attention. See what I mean? So but they're amazing. They're incredible people. I actually made it feel like family in there. It's an amazing program that we get to learn collaboratively with vision, with our recovery center. And then over 24 guys a day show up to my group every day from all walks of life, from all types of senses. And they're willing to start making a change. It's amazing. I say Christmas every day for me when I go there, because I'm a person in recovery and I know how hard it is for someone. And my statement is, you're not your child. That's one day of your life. You have a choice. You can decide if that's gonna dictate the rest of your life, or if you wanna start making a change. And I'll hold the door open for you as long as you want. If you decide you want to walk through that door, I'll walk with you. If you decide you want to go the other way, well, that's on you. But obviously, we all have choices and they're not easy to bake. And even that are making the hard choices and they're taking responsibility and they're choosing to be sober every day, it's amazing to see how rich you guys would come down and see the benefits of what you do for us on a daily basis. So out of that, I'd like to just ask you to support the BDH recommendation to appropriate $1,250,000 that apply I-twenty seven opioid abatement funds and to continue to successful peer recovery coaching program within our correctional facilities across the state. We all do this together. We're not separate entities. We all work together. People move across the state all the time. We go from prison to prison. I work with Tracy. We bring people from there to Newport. They get transported all over the place. We're building this across the state. You know, that's the that's the goal I would love to see in the next five years to see this program across the state. I can tell you the most recent number I have of the men that do not reincarcerate is fifty two percent of men. That's a huge number of people that we encounter in Springfield. And so we have embedded coaches in all kinds of areas. My expertise is in Springfield Prison and Insulation pills. 52 of those individuals. And we've only been gathering our data now for since 2023. So we don't have a lifetime of data. That's fifty two percent of those men who get out do not go back. Those members go up and down. So right now, it's fifty two, which blows my mind. So your money is well, well spent. And if I have time out time, I do not. Okay.

[Speaker 9]: Thank you. I'm glad

[Speaker 7]: I asked because I don't wanna pick up a lot of your time.

[Speaker 0]: So You have to go testify.

[Speaker 7]: Yes. Get it. I get it.

[Speaker 4]: I Take care. Thank you all

[Speaker 7]: very much. And I invite you anytime you have a question, please reach out to our office or this lady right there.

[Speaker 8]: Thank you.

[Speaker 7]: Have a good day. Sorry,

[Speaker 6]: he has.

[Speaker 7]: Understood.

[Speaker 12]: Good job, you'll do well up there. Thank you very

[Speaker 9]: All right, so who's next?

[Speaker 6]: Go ahead, Sorry. Go Hi, everybody. Good afternoon Chair and Chair members of

[Speaker 11]: the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today. My name is Sherona Campbell and I'm here to share my lived experience to ask you to continue supporting recovery residents in Vermont. I am a person in recovery, but long before I ever struggled with substance myself, I was a child growing up surrounded by addiction, dysfunction, and trauma. Some children grow up feeling safe and supported. I grew up learning how to read, move, walk on the eggshells, and stay quiet. I learned early that what happened inside our home stayed inside our home, even when it hurt, even when it scarred us, even when we needed help. Addiction felt normal. Chaos felt normal, care felt normal. When trauma comes, when trauma becomes normal, you don't realize how heavy it is until you try to put it down. That weight followed me into adulthood. Like so many people with trauma histories have found a way to numb it. Substances did not feel like a choice at first. They felt like a relief, like quiet, like an escape from pain that never really had a safe place to go. But addiction does not heal trauma. It only adds more pain. There were times when I truly did not believe I would make it out. I did not think stability, peace, or real happiness were possible for someone like me. I believe survival might be the best, the best I could hope for. Then I found recovery housing, specifically a level two certified recovery residence through Vermont Foundation of Recovery. Living in a level two certified recovery residence meant I was not doing recovery alone. There was structure built into each day, clear expectations and accountability that held me grounded when my own judgment was still fragile. I had responsibilities, routines and boundaries that created safety, safety not just for me, but for everyone in the home. Just as importantly, I lived alongside peers who understood exactly what I was going through. We held each other accountable, supporting one another through hard days and built our community rooted in an honesty and shared commitment to recovery. When challenges came up, they were addressed calmly and transparently with safety and dignity at the center. That balance of support and accountability made recovery feel possible.

[Speaker 8]: Okay.

[Speaker 11]: They gave me the space to breathe, to slow down, and to begin separating who I was from the trauma and addiction that had shaken my past. Through Vermont Foundation of Recovery, I experienced compassionate staff, peer leadership, and consistent expectations. I was supported without being rescued and held accountable without being punished. That combination helped me move forward from addiction to recovery, and from recovery toward independence. Today, I'm not just surviving, am living. I'm giving back, I'm supporting others who are where I once was, because I know how powerful it is to feel safe, supported, and believed in during early recovery. Recovery residents are more than places to live. They are bridges. They are second chances. They are environments where people can stabilize, rebuild trust, rebuild trust in themselves, and learn that their past does not have to define their future. Without recovery housing, many people do not get the chance. And when people do not get the chance, get that chance, families suffer, communities suffer, and too often lives are lost. I'm here today because recovering residents work. They provide stability, accountability, and community at critical moment when people are most vulnerable. I respect you. I respectfully ask you to continue recovering I respectfully ask you to continue supporting recovering residents of Vermont, in Vermont, so more people can have the same opportunity I was getting. Thank you for listening and letting me share my story. You so much.

[Speaker 12]: So whoever's next can come on up. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you.

[Speaker 7]: And before you go,

[Speaker 12]: I just wanna just wanna mention, I'm I'm doctor John Benson. I've drug cases for so long and gotten nowhere. I had a couple of folks that were were, like, had success stories. They hear later once better. And I'm so happy to hear this. It's really new thing. And I don't get to hear this. It matters a lot. Thank you very much.

[Speaker 9]: I appreciate that, Senator.

[Speaker 12]: I've been at this,

[Speaker 9]: my name's James Wentzro. I'm a person recovery from substance use disorder. I'm also a resident of Ben's House in New Jersey, and I've been pursuing recovery for about twelve years now, and I've lived in every state in the Northeast, save Rhode Island. I've seen every iteration of the way this issue is trying to be tackled, I appreciate your reflection that we absolutely cannot prosecute our way at this problem. What I'm gonna talk about today offers or attests to a solution that can work. Yeah, so thank you for that reflection. Thanks committee for having me. Thank you, Lila, for asking me to speak. I dive into my written testimony, I'll apologize that I didn't know exactly who I was speaking to today, it's a little bit spicier of a message to the people who went before me. And just to touch Senator Harrison, I know that's not you. Wrong name tag. But just to clarify, the question that you had earlier about the difference between treatment centers and recovery residences. You know, different states do fund these different stages, I'd say, of the recovery process from different pools. Connecticut, for example, will fund ninety days in treatment, which is a medical treatment, and then they will pay a fraction of your fees or rent for the first three months of living in a recovery residence, but they bill Medicaid for those services. So there's a variety of ways that it's done and, you know, like, Jeff said, you know, until very recently, we had really no public model for funding it. And from my perspective, the private capital for profit entities have an inherent conflict of interest in moving into this space. Having all these different stakeholders bringing interests and money to the table and so on, I think is like a much a solution with much more integrity. Does that make sense? Okay, so, and also we talked about the fourteen or seventeen day. Every study ever since the 70s has shown that the more time spent in treatment, the better, so it's best long term recovery rates are. So, for a decade now, I wish to speak directly with stakeholders who can allocate the resources to scale this crisis requires. I hope I'm speaking to the right people today. I always say that in order to solve this problem, we don't have to reinvent the wheel, we just have to be willing to take the action others have already proven effective. We don't need another budgetary impact operational benchmarking feasibility review, nor can we wait another ten years for its report. Remember the scale and speed at which government is willing to act following September 11? A nineeleven's worth of overdose deaths occurs every two weeks in America today. With all due respect, the equivocating and heel dragging must end. What qualifies me to make these claims today? Well, June was unexpectedly my first night of intimacy with a stunt. Picture it now, me minus thirty pounds, sleeping at the vacant end of a shopping plaza because there was just nowhere to place me following a six week hospitalization at UDM for a MRSA infection in my spine, which I also contracted as a result of not having a safe housing or treatment option in which to be placed. In withdrawal, wearing a woman's blouse and a four inch blanket, I wake at 2AM to an unfamiliar sound and raise my head to the sight of a skunk gambling toward me. I had constructed a barrier of shopping carts around my head to conceal myself from unsafe parties, and I made the mistake of leaving some food on the bottom shelf of one of these shopping carts. And I tried to whisper shout to this skunk to go away as it just without a care came this close to me and sort of clumsily pulled at this box of food. And the skunk was so close I could smell it, not like it's spray, but it's musky skunk body. This was very visceral reality. And I remember laying there and thinking, like, if this isn't some version of rock bottom, I'm not sure what it is. You know, I'm trying to shoo this stuff away as it's eating my food. That skunk did finally leave. I couldn't even get up and relocate. I was too weak physically, and anyway, where would I go? This was the best, safest option for me at that time, and that's got me two similar trips that night, and I was so ill and resigned to my station that I just pulled my blanket up and hoped. This, of course, is one of the lighter events of predictive outcomes. My middle finger, which is missing, also a result of having nowhere to go following treatment. Three winters ago, I left treatment on a Friday during a polar vortex and one of the two sober houses left in Chittenden County suddenly canceled my intake, and I explained to them that I was way more afraid of overdose and death than being exposed to COVID. That was the reason I couldn't come, but they wouldn't make an exception. I went to economic services and they claimed that they had no rooms in the entire state that I could even drive to. And I just started weeping out loud in the office explaining, just got out of treatment. I'm really trying to succeed. What can I do? And they said, Sorry, we can't help you. And that Monday, I woke up in the ICU with third degree frostbite. Almost had the toes on my left foot amputated. So those are the downstream costs of not supporting somebody upfront. And as I said, I lived in every state in the Northeast seeking services and I found the same story over and over again and again. Just sober houses which provide a bed and a weekly meeting, and the threat of homelessness is the primary driver of support. And for the few stories of success that you've heard from these models, have heard the countless numbers of cases where this punitive, trauma perpetuating, typically profit centric model has led to and have failed people. And in this milieu, as you know, failure means dying. That's what happens. I was repeatedly failed by the system, and with persistence and small miracles, I survived. Just talk to you today. Thankfully, today, I'm happy to say that thanks to Ben's house and journey to recovery in Newport, I'm six months sober and I'm in strong, grounded recovery. I'm employed full time as a peer support specialist at the local mental health agency. I'm restoring relationships with friends and family, and I'm due to re enrolling graduate school sometime in the next short period of time. I will leave it to them another time to outline exactly how their programming differs from some of these more antiquated limited models. But I can say with as much certainty that I can muster that it is only because of their, new and progressive approach and, weaving together different supports and the people building it, that I am already turning my ship to compost, as we say in recovery. We can trust anything they have to say about themselves, and I plead with you to allocate them the resources that will allow them to continue replicating this lifesaving provision of care.

[Speaker 12]: Thank you, James. The compost comment was just this immunity measure was coming in. Happy two spice did work out.

[Speaker 9]: Well, thanks for being here.

[Speaker 7]: We're we're we're hearing recovery stories.

[Speaker 12]: It's inspirational.

[Speaker 9]: Well, I appreciate the opportunity. I I wish to be able to to do this for a a long time. Thank you.

[Speaker 2]: Thank you. And just one quick question. Since you've been in all of the other states, You look at where we are and where Bravoisi are. Any comments, thoughts on what we're doing versus what you've experienced in the other states?

[Speaker 9]: It's a good question, and I would say that it's a little bit staggered. There are some ways in which we're doing better and there are many, like ten years ago when I moved here, you could get a twenty eight day stay at residential treatment. Now you can get 14. So the overdose deaths have doubled, but somehow you get half the treatment. What I was gonna say before is that ninety days is considered the gold standard of residential treatment. And if you plot them on a graph, the long term success rates and the time spent in residential treatment, the curves are basically locked together. So if ninety days is the standard, then fourteen days is a sixth of what's needed. There's no other medical treatment that you would give somebody a sixth of medicine that they needed, and when they got sick again, you would blame it on the patient, right? Increasing the amount of time that we're giving people is a modest improvement. I would say that some of this legislation, which I only just heard about today, S-one 157, a big deal because a lot of these places that don't have any standard around what it looks like to discharge somebody or what their responsibility is to keep somebody safe when they've had a recurrence or a relapse. You know, I've seen where they take a guy out at midnight and he's dead on a stoop four hours later. And that's simply because they don't have a process built in, and it represents a cost to a for profit business to have a process for dealing with somebody with a recurrence. Are there some, what states have the ninety day standard that you insure? There any? No. Okay. Not at least not on Medicaid. When you have private insurance, changes for a little bit, but no, twenty eight days is twelve in Medicaid, actually. They're the exception. They have ninety days of treatment? Yeah, ninety days of residential treatment funded by Medicaid. Okay. What's the longest you've been sober? Eight months, twelve years. How many times? Too many to count. Yeah, but those eight months that What's different this time? You know, that is the million dollar question. If you could answer that question, you would be very valuable. You know, I think it's a complex mixture of readiness and resource availability. Can say for sure, with no exaggeration that the specific model that Benson has, that is progressive, that is not, again, carceral, punitive based,

[Speaker 4]: that Well, doesn't that go against the community of recovery, what they're doing? Or is it different?

[Speaker 9]: I don't think so.

[Speaker 4]: K. Well, because it it has, and that's what is why it works. Because over and over and over again, we have tried the same old things that don't work, and now we are here to take a different approach. I've been involved with Ben's house since the inception, so I'm Yeah. Very well aware of what miss Bennington is doing and all and all of her cast are are doing up there. So it is rewarding to hear that you sometimes you gotta think outside the box, and you gotta you gotta deal with what worked, and you, you know, you can't keep on digging all the way to China and turn around and come back again. You gotta sometimes you gotta stop dealing with what's not working and and do what's working right, no matter what the other says. Congratulations to you.

[Speaker 9]: Thank you. And to answer your question a little bit further, I appreciate the time. The difference there is that you're supported holistically across the spectrum of your recovery needs, whereas this the former model is, here, you have a bed. We're here to kick you out if you relapse, but otherwise, you're on your own. Figure out a job. Figure out how to stay safe and occupied with your personal time throughout the day. Figure out how to evolve on your own. You know, go to go to AA, get a sponsor, and it's all on you. And for anybody, that's a difficult job. But for somebody who is so vulnerable and so fresh to the world, you know, I have the benefit of having experience with some of those things. I went to college, but for people who have never had to construct a life to be asked to do so without any support, it's a fool's errand. And so the difference is you're bused to the recovery center where you spend four or five hours engaging in programming that's about emotional sobriety, that's about job exploration, application, that make sure that you are arranged with a private therapist who you engage with. It's just that little extra push and that little sort of positively oriented, It's a carrot rather than a snake. So I would say, and it's just it's what I've imagined for years. It's been very validating to to feel it working. Yeah. So I really hope that it's it's being replicated elsewhere. Me too. And so thank you for your for your support, for recognizing that. This is just like how how much do we have to keep doing this thing? That's not what we're continue. Right.

[Speaker 4]: Well, you. Thank you.

[Speaker 6]: Good job, James. I'd just like to say one thing. These are also residents of Brent's House. They're here to support, and it is the Assistant Director of Journey, Recovery Coaching of Journey, Director of Dirty Day Recovery, and it is that cross section of working, having a recovery residence with structured program, where they are required to come to the recovery center. They are required to have a therapist who work with higher ability to help them find employment. We work with them to find employment. Otherwise, you know, education, continuing education. All of those things are why our program is working. We've been open for one year. We have, as of yet, had no relapses at home. We have And

[Speaker 4]: we have 20 more 21 more beds available, and that we got dual funding. We could fill it, and we could have a whole limp of these boxes.

[Speaker 6]: Yeah. At the moment, we can't have more than 10 because we do not have the staff to be able to give them the quality of care. And really, it's around seven or eight, and that's my choice because I'm not willing to do anything that's not exactly, like, the top level quality of care. We can't

[Speaker 12]: find the staff.

[Speaker 6]: Don't have the money. So, on

[Speaker 2]: the money side, I'm just curious. You've said that Connecticut is funding through Medicaid ninety days. Why is it that you're probably 14? I know you're shaking your head no, but I'm going, why did one state do it? We couldn't.

[Speaker 6]: How much time do you have?

[Speaker 9]: He's got a whole other community. The

[Speaker 6]: reason that it's different is this, is that Vermont is starting to really look at some of these models, but those are clinical models. So, clinical care is able to be billed to Medicaid. Really, we have not done any kind of peer recovery models billing Medicaid as of yet. It's something that the Vermont Department of Health is working with recovery centers on. It's sort of in the pipeline. It's not happening yet. I don't even know if that is the right necessary direction. I think that we, we have, if we're really smart about this, we have the money. Because, like James said, he went to the hospital with hypothermia. He's going to the hospital and costing Sorry. It's costing us the same money. We're taking We have We've had five men from corrections. It's $89,000 a year to house someone in a correctional facility. We're taking them and putting them to work. They are then contributing to the society. So if we look at the money that we already have, there's a way to be able to do what we're doing and expand it statewide and not cost us any more. We will cost us less and we will save lives. And so, it's not

[Speaker 7]: It don't

[Speaker 2]: make any of us just free.

[Speaker 6]: Yeah. Just

[Speaker 2]: right treatment, keeping them out of the hospitals, keeping them out of the correction facilities. I'm just asking the question, if another state can figure out how to tap into Medicare dollars, isn't that something we should look at?

[Speaker 4]: And it also goes to, because we have a whole different cast of people in this room, and Lila has heard me say this before, is that we need to, as you folks are in the room, and if we are in the rooms, we are doing the dollars, we have to listen to the people like this that are going to help us recover people, help us fix people. There are all kinds of different ideas about, well, don't we try this over here? Well, why don't we not try that over there? And we have to have strong voices to say, no. Let's not try that because we already know that's not gonna work. We are all we're gonna do is burn up millions of dollars and possibly kill somebody by trying to do those programs that we know that don't work. So let's just

[Speaker 7]: put our focus on what does work

[Speaker 4]: and do a better job at it. And let's just fix people.

[Speaker 12]: Chair floor, vice chair. Vice chair. Acting chair?

[Speaker 9]: Don't know. I

[Speaker 6]: just really want to make clear the distinguish, because for the fourteen ninety day thing, no one is of you, like that could be great for Vermont to do, but that still is in treatment facilities. So, that's a step above recovery residences. So, whether or not Vermont moves from fourteen days to ninety days, that's all great and well, but that still doesn't affect recovery It's because

[Speaker 1]: they do not provide critical services. That's nice.

[Speaker 12]: Great. Is that everybody or? Well, great. I'm sorry for choking up a little bit there, but I'm very, very glad to hear all of these stories. Thank you, Lucas.

[Speaker 9]: Don't apologize for the athletes. That is very helpful. I wouldn't wasn't. That wasn't. It just happens.

[Speaker 12]: Then I feel like happy on seeing this. I appreciate

[Speaker 4]: it all.

[Speaker 12]: So are we we will adjourn. We'll have luck. Yeah. We're still live right