Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: We are live. So it is Tuesday, January 27. We are here at Senate Institutions. I'm Senator Plunkett Bennington, I'll be running the meeting as Chair Harrison is not here, and it's probably because of the treacherous roads. I had my second most dangerous drive ever coming up here. I don't

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Yeah. So blame

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: we've met you from last year. I've met you separately, but we'll we'll introduce ourselves for the committee so you all know who we are because we do have one new senator and I'll start to my left with Senator Benson.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: So I'm John Benson from the Orange District. Senator Russ Ingalls, Essex Orleans. Good to see you both.

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Senator Joe Major from Windsor.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Okay. And first up this afternoon, we'll be hearing from the Vermont Veterans Home. And in terms of the the agenda, that's as far as I know. So, let us know who you are and let us know what, what you want us to know.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Sure. So I'm Melissa Jackson, the CEO of the Vermont Veterans Home. I have with me Greg Cousan, who is our Director of Buildings and Grounds and our subject matter expert. I'll do an overview and when you guys have questions, I will be deferring them to Greg. Steve McLafferty, is our Finance Director. So my plan today is to give you an overview of the current projects we have, you guys have funded, as well as a request for some new dollars for an emergency project that has come up over the summer. So the first project I want to touch quickly on is resident furnishings. We would have been appropriated $230,000 for resident furnishings. As of this morning, we have spent $96,000 of that money. We have purchased hospital beds, over bed tables, and common area furniture. We are in the process of getting prices for wardrobes. So in many of our rooms, they were not built with closets. So we have to replace wardrobes, which have probably been there from the late seventies, if not earlier. So we need about, I think you said, what is it, close to 30 of those, Greg. So we're going be pricing those and replacing those. And that should almost finish out the outstanding balance of that furniture.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: And do you know when that was appropriated? I don't think it was last year's.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: It's been a few years, like

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: three Three years, yes. Correct. The

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: next is the heat pumps, which I believe shows as air compressors or air handlers on your form, was appropriated. So that was $710,000 We have spent $446,000 That is 65% complete. Obviously, that means there's 35% less more to complete, and we anticipate that that project will be completed around March 1. Our HVAC tech was just in and did explain to me we've had a recent anomaly, that we've had three units he's installed that have failed. So he has reached out to Northeast Geo. They are the supplier of these units, and they're gonna be coming on-site to see what's going on. That's an eight percent failure rate, which is a little high. So they should be here next Monday, between next Monday and Wednesday to determine what's going on. If needed, we may ask Climate Master who is the manufacturer of those units to come on-site as well. Those that have been installed, I have one in my office, are functioning quite well.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Great. And that appropriation, I'm just trying to look back at the initial request and I believe that that was a little bit less than what was requested, the seven ten. Is that still gonna be we're be

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: able to complete the project with with what was appropriate for them?

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Go ahead, Greg.

[Greg Cousan, Director of Buildings and Grounds, Vermont Veterans Home]: Yeah. In in past conversations, out of that seven ten, whatever we don't spend was gonna be moved over to our laundry, new laundry build. So it was kind of a float back and forth. Right now, we project I mean, we have all the units here on-site. We just have to have them installed. So that's, you know, money wise, we're we're pretty much at the end unless we just have some hoses or whatnot fittings that need to be purchased. So there will be leftover money after that.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Okay.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: I hope you don't mind interrupting the questions.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Nope, go right ahead. The next project is our boiler project, which you allotted $4,500,000 for. This project is on I did apply for VA grant funding, so for the new members of the committee. Being a state veterans home, one of the things that is nice about being a state veterans home is we apply for VA construction grant money. The VA, when we finally reach the top of the list, will cover 65% of a project, and the state pays 35% of the project. So in the past, when the state has fully funded a project and our project is finally funded by the VA, I refund the 65% back to the state. Right now, there is a little over $2,000,000,000 worth of projects, with a B, and the VA construction list only received $185,000,000 So I don't know when this project will be funded, but it is on the list. And as new projects come up, I will continue to apply for grant funding to reimburse the state as much money as possible. So we have not spent any money on this project. RFP was just scored on January 5, and it is currently in the contracting phase. And the plan is to get this project started by the summertime. So it is in works. The next one is the elevator project, which is $1,500,000 This will be also I will apply for a VA grant for this one. I have not yet because the RFP has gone out and no one has bid on this project. Speaking with Tabrina, who is our contract at BGS, the plan is for it to go out to bid again in the next few weeks to see if we have any takers. Then if we don't have any takers, Greg and I will be speaking with her about next steps. Then it comes to our laundry room and our washers and dryers. A $150,000, probated for the washers and dryers. We spent 96,500. Happy to report that they are installed and working well, and the laundry staff loves them. So working well. The RFP go ahead.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: I got to see them over the summer, I think, or whenever it was. It might not have been summer. It's been a long time.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Yes. Was a good tour.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: So we have $340,000 appropriated for the laundry room, and the RFP for the design is supposed to go out in the next few weeks as well. We haven't spent any money on that. Greg and Sabrina have identified an area within the facility grounds that are essentially located, easy access to water and all other utilities. I don't know if anything else you'd like to share about that, Greg.

[Greg Cousan, Director of Buildings and Grounds, Vermont Veterans Home]: No, you kind of cover the base on that. So we figured up at about 1,100 square foot area for new build and also using an existing portion that's already here, Just a little retrofitting with walls and stuff. But it's perfect location for what we need. It's you can get to every wing very easily. Ergonomics for the staff is going to be very, very good compared to what they have which should take our any comp claims, anything like that down because they're not having to struggle going up and down those ramps all the time.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: The last bit of the old projects is the A wing design. This is the unit that we have offline, our 30 beds. The design work is done. And I did submit a VA grant application. So we anticipated that this project would be about $49,000,000 with a 60 fivethirty five split. So that would be with the VA doing approximately $32,000,000 and the state doing a little 17,200,000.0 Speaking with Sabrina, costs have increased. So Greg and Sabrina and I need to meet and determine if we're going to pull the grant back and reapply with more realistic numbers, Or do we roll the dice and see if we can make the project work? So what happens, the VA does allow for a little bit of an overrun of about $3,180,000 So is it worth really getting really hard solid numbers? Prices are all over the place. Obviously with tariffs going up one day, down the other, is really hard to project construction cost. Then we, of course, have the Build America by America. So Greg, Sabrina and I have to have a really hard discussion on what we want to do. The last thing I want to do is be in a situation where I ask for money and then we're really short and have to come back and ask for more money.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Senator Benson has a question.

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: Yeah. Just curiosity, when you apply, what's the timeframe? How long does it generally take to get an answer?

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: So for new bills, this would be a priority approval. So once we know the actual dollar amount and we come and request the state match from you guys and you approve that within the next federal fiscal year, it can be approved. So it behooves us to make sure that we are shuffle ready on our end. So that's meeting with Sabrina and making sure that we're ready to roll. New bills get priority over things such as boilers and elevators and those type of things. It can be a quick turnaround. But my concern is making sure that we have adequate funding. And not misleading you guys saying we need X when we actually end up needing Y. So, I'm going to defer the next topic after I give you the

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: dollar I'm sorry, Melissa. I just The thing I'm concerned about with reapplying for grant is that volatility of the federal government currently.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Yes.

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: And if you say this and then you may not get anything. And that is particularly with significant reduction in VA funding. So I would just caution Yes. Whether you want, and maybe what I mean, I don't know guess I'm a little, you may have said it and I apologize, if, you know, we know who is doing our construction, if they can sharpen their pencils a little bit, and I don't know if they can sharpen their pencils $17,200,000 or excuse me, $3.2.0.18, but I don't know. I don't know.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: I am going be in Washington next week with the National Association of State Veterans Homes. We'll be meeting with representatives from the VA, so I'll have a little bit better understanding of what their funding looks like in terms of for construction grant projects for the next fiscal year. I'll have a little bit better information. But again, I don't like to come to you guys and not give you solid numbers and information because I know

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: we're going appreciate that.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: You have a lot of pressures this year and I want to be respectful of that. And in the coming years, I'm quite sure. Over this summer, we have had a lovely issue and I did send a PowerPoint and there's a picture. So we had

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: For the community members. The PowerPoint is on website. Do you want to take a look at the Thank you for the paper, Melissa. Yeah. So

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: we're an older building and we still have cast iron pipes in a lot of spots. And the cast iron is deteriorating and we had a horrible sewer backup. So we need to replace about 7,800 linear feet of cast iron pipe. We anticipate this is going to be about $750,000 And at that point, I'm going to turn it over to Greg so he can explain in better detail what exactly the issue is. So go ahead, Greg.

[Greg Cousan, Director of Buildings and Grounds, Vermont Veterans Home]: All right. So there's a lot of cast iron pipe in this building and majority of it is four inch pipe. So it's a smaller diameter pipe. Pretty much every room here has a bathroom that is used very regularly. With all of that being said, over the years they've used different drain cleaners and whatnot. So it's pretty much scaled and rotted the inside of these pipes. We've had multiple pipes that have cracked and broken. With this incident here, we had approximately 60 feet of pipe. And as you see in that picture there, that's how it was for 60 feet. So it was completely sealed off with toilet paper, you know, feces, whatnot. It was a a major mess that we ended up having to call in Servpro to come in and do the final cleanup after our our contractor came in and replaced the pipe. There was there was no jetting it. They had to take the pipe apart and remove the clog. But this throughout the whole building. This was just a major one that we ran into, but it's going to happen again just because of the condition of the interior of those pipes. So price wise, after meeting with the plumbers that I I talked to here, price wise, it's it's not as easy as just relining. These are in multiple crawl spaces, very tight spots. Some don't have very good access to it. You have to go through the building down staircases to get at some of these locations. There's no exterior entrances into these basements. So, it's gonna be more time consuming, labor intensive. You know, a lot of twists and corners and turns, stuff that's buried up above, you know, different pipes and electrical conduits. So it's gonna be, as I said, very labor intensive to do. Seawing is the worst. That's kind of the habitual problem over there. But as we go through these older sections of the buildings, we find more cracks, we find more leaks. And we're trying to just basically put a band aid on it. So this would definitely help the facility. And I would like to see it upsized to a six inch mainline pipe just for more flow because as we're getting moving further in the future, different products, wipes, and everything. Because we found things that should never have been flushed. Any I don't even understand how they got flushed like a mop head. I don't I don't understand how that stuff gets flushed, but it happens. And with a with a larger diameter pipe system, that'll they'll free flow a lot better. Plus just general, you know, common sense not to flush things like that. With PVC, it's a smoother core center, less susceptible to deterioration and rot. This is just an old building we're dealing with and this is what we have to go with. Eventually, it's it has to be changed. And if we do it, we we get a contractor in here. We can do the whole the whole system and hopefully, remediate some of these problems. You know, we, you know, we can't can't prove can't always say, yes, you know, we're never gonna have a problem after we do this again, but, you know, it's preventative. Know, it's easier to work on too because cast iron is a very heavy product. It's very hard to work with. Some of these seals have lead seals in them which are toxic for the environment once it leaves this place and heads downstream. So there's a number of factors here why we need to change this.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: And your estimated cost is $750,000 We see it in the governor's recommendation it's $500,000 do you know why there's a difference there?

[Greg Cousan, Director of Buildings and Grounds, Vermont Veterans Home]: That I don't know. Maybe just because, you know, he's never been down in the basement. I don't wanna just I don't, you know, do anything, you know, but he's never been out the basement. And if if, you know, you're you're more than welcome. He's more than welcome to come down and I'll give him a tour down there. And then he'll be like, yes. This is a lot of work.

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Yeah. Think

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: when it was presented to us, it might have this might have been one of the the lines that was an estimate at the time that might change along the way but so

[Greg Cousan, Director of Buildings and Grounds, Vermont Veterans Home]: and again you know you pvc it's some of it's made out of the country in Canada and so tariffs and materials material costs are can inflate.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: So that sums it up for you guys.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Yes.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Right.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Yep.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Is there anything else that you wanted to share with us generally about the vet's home or maybe in particular?

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Want to share some great news. We always ask for money from you guys, but I also want to share what an incredible facility this is. This year, we received the American Healthcare Association's Silver Quality Award. This is an award that we applied for, but we were the only nursing home in the state of Vermont to receive this. This is one of a three tier award system. We've received the bronze from them. We've now received the silver. And next year we will be applying for the gold, which is the highest award you can receive for your quality of care in the long term care setting. US News and World Report goes out and looks at various quality indicators about us. We don't apply for any type of recognition by them, but they recognized us for 2026 as one of the best nursing homes for long and short term care in the state of Vermont. Again, the only nursing home in Vermont to receive both of those awards. And Google, business rate through Google ranked us among the top 10 nursing homes in Vermont for our quality of care. And then Pinnacle, Activated Insights, ranked us in the top 15% of all nursing homes nationwide. So the team down here, I'm so proud to lead, does an incredible job each and every day going above and beyond providing great care. I know you only hear from us about the things that are broken and that we need money for, but the veterans are getting phenomenal care every day. So I wanted to share that with you.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Great congratulations.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Thank you.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Out on the limb,

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: three of us are on the agriculture committee and you have some ag stuff going on down there. How's that all going in your estimation? I think we heard from the other side and they're pretty happy. How are you feeling about all that?

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Good. We're working, the board leased land to I always mess up the name, if anything, conservation. Let's go, I can, I never remember what it is after that, to do the veteran farming? I know that Michael is interviewing for a farm manager, so we're looking forward to seeing that project get up and running. Working with the Elizabeth Dole Foundation and one of my other hats, I know a lot of veterans who have leveraged that type of program out West and has done phenomenally in terms of non pharmacological interventions for PTSD, but it also just really reinvigorating communities and bringing younger vets. I'm hoping to see that happen here. The deer are doing fine, just in case. Actually, the deer herd is getting a little big, so we are going to be working with some other fellow deer farmers to help relocate some of them. They're doing great. I forget how many fawns we had this year.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: So, it's

[Greg Cousan, Director of Buildings and Grounds, Vermont Veterans Home]: six of the deer.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Explain the deer park to the committee because I'm not sure if anyone else knows what it is or So, knows what it

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: long history when the Veterans Home first started back in the 1800s, it was a working farm. And for many, many, many decades, it had a white tailed deer hurt here. And shortly after I started in 2011, we ended up with just having a few female white tail here. And they were humanely euthanized. And then Sam's Land in Pulteney, Vermont had this horrific animal abuse situation. And they asked us if we could take Santa's deer. So we did. So we have a nice herd of fallow deer that are great because they love people, especially if you have bananas and apples. So they're a great tourist attraction and we have kids all the time and we have them here. And so I'm responsible for them as well as human beings and fish and we have eagles and occasional bears and skunks. You name it, we have wildlife down here. But yeah.

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Perfect.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: So great. Thank you.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: You're welcome. The rest of you are welcome anytime to visit. Nights, weekends, holidays, let me know when you want to come visit. I'll be more than happy to show you around.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. We do have to get to have

[Sen. John Benson (Member)]: a Sure.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: And I take my office. We just walked over.

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Yeah. I'm all in. I'm absolutely all in. A former veteran, I like to see where I'll be in a few years.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Let you pick up the bed ahead of time too.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: We'll put the

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: reserve sign.

[Sen. Joseph "Joe" Major (Member)]: Thank you. Yes. I'll pick up my room.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: All right. So thank you all. There's nothing else from the committee, nothing else from our guests. We can adjourn and go offline.

[Melissa Jackson, CEO, Vermont Veterans Home]: Thank you.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Vice Chair, acting as Chair)]: Thank you very much.