Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay, we are live. Welcome. This is Senate Institutions. Today is Friday, January 16. And today we have three items on our agenda. One is the first one Chittenden Regional Correctional Facility and we'll hear from the Vermont Network to hear about the impacts due to increased incarcerated population. We have many more detainees and non detainees in all of our prison sites. And second item is going to be a state house project update. We're gonna hear from the sergeant and the state curator. And then we'll have an item to confirm that some funding in the art in state buildings advisory committee, they want to make some amendments to current funding and we'll listen to their explanation and recommendation and we'll take a vote on that. So, first thing on the agenda is, Charlie, is it Glisserman? Glisserman. Okay, who's director of policy for Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence. And I think you know everyone here. Do you know? Maybe you don't. So Yeah. Bennington. So

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: good to meet you. Welcome. And I'll introduce myself to everybody.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: I'm Hilah Bayou. I'm the director of the DIVAS program, which you'll hear more about. I work in the Chipman Regional. Sure.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And we met him.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: I was gonna say, I'm glad you called

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: for a before. Yes, and we'll be back too. We'll do that regularly. Got it. Okay, so thank you, Charlie.

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Thank you. I will pull up the slide deck here, and while I'm doing that, just wanted to, I just sent a request to Ken to screen care. I believe this is my first time speaking in this committee.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: It could be. Connecting with you all, and

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: so I'm so grateful to share more about our work, and appreciate y'all making the time.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Okay, looks like it's sharing. Beautiful. So,

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: we prepared a presentation to kind of walk through different elements of our work. We thought it would be helpful because I feel like we do have a lot to cover, but, of course, you know, if you have any questions, any places where you

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: would like us to go deeper, or

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: you feel like you have the context, you know, please let me know. I want this to be most valuable for you. So today we are planning to talk a bit about for the Vermont Network's DIVAS program, offering direct services to incarcerated survivors at Shipton Regional Correctional Facility, and how that work informs our perspective on the women's facility stakeholder group and in conversations at the State House around justice involved women, The reentry needs of detainees at CRCF, Chair Harrison noted, are skyrocketing, and a proposal brought by some of the stakeholder group members to better meet the needs of those detainees with increased casework capacity at CRCF. So, not all the time, but sometimes. I'm asked, why does the Vermont Network run a direct services program in CRCF? And that's because the vast majority of incarcerated women have histories of interpersonal trauma prior to their incarceration. In a 2024 survey of people at CRCF, ninety seven percent reported experiencing or witnessing domestic violence. The vast majority also reported experiencing or witnessing sexual violence as a minor.

[Unidentified committee member]: Yeah. Yes. I I just wanna get a definition. You say interpersonal. That's domestic violence, is that what we're specifically talking about?

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Exactly. Okay. Violence in a home, violence in a relationship.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: Okay. You.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Of course. And then I just wanted to double, and that's typical in our country for women who are incarcerated. Yes. And probably men too, but particularly for women. Yeah, absolutely.

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: And for many of those folks, those experiences of trauma can directly or indirectly contribute to their incarceration, which is why we see these trends across the country. Sixty two percent of people at CRCF reported experiences of forced criminality, meaning they were pressured or forced to engage in illegal or sexual activities in exchange for money, housing, substances, basic needs. One way to describe this is trafficking experiences. And this is why for over twenty years, the Vermont Network has operated a statewide direct services program inside CRCF for incarcerated survivors of domestic violence, sexual violence, and trafficking. And my colleague, Highland, can speak a bit more detail into what the DIVAS program day to day looks like.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: So, hi again. My name is Kylan. I'm the director of the DIVAS program. DIVAS stands for discussing intimate violence and accessing support. It's a very long name, so DIVAS is much quicker to chat about, but I'm there. I'm a full time advocate with D. V. A. S. Program. I have two other advocates who work in CRCF with me who are there in some capacity, sometimes multiple advocates, sometimes just one, five days a week, nine to five, working with people who are incarcerated around instances of domestic violence, sexual violence, human trafficking. Those are really broad umbrella terms that we use, And we also do a lot of education, emotional support, healing, creating ways for people to move through the experience of being incarcerated, which is inherently traumatic on top of this other kinds of trauma in a way that is safe and meaningful and sets them up for success when they leave. The main building blocks of how our program functions is one on one emotional support that me and the two other advocates in the building provide to folks, and groups and education. Our program is totally voluntary and totally confidential. It's accessible to anyone as soon as they reach general population and are booked into the building. So, we work with detained, sentenced, federal detainees, anyone detained by immigration services. Our services are available to everybody at any time. And like I said, they're totally confidential. We have victim crisis worker privilege, which every domestic violence advocate across the state has, but we have the highest level of confidentiality in the Chipman Regional Correctional Facility. So we're mandated for tours of child abuse, but everything else we get to keep confidential. So a lot of people access us initially to sort of process things that are were happening prior to incarceration. A lot of times people's lives are turbulent and chaotic and becoming incarcerated can feel like a really drastic change. So we do a lot of helping people process emotions, relationships, the experience of being incarcerated, and then we offer lots of education opportunities around healing trauma, grief and loss. We just started an LGBTQ resilience group. We do reentry planning in a group setting, as well as collaborating with other caseworkers and contractors and DOC staff to make sure that everyone has everything that they need, everything we can provide to give them wraparound services leaving the building. I'm available Just the the last thing that you

[Unidentified committee member]: were talking about, as for me, that is probably the most important thing is how that when they leave, and that's also connected to them offending again. What what if we do a diversion, what what exactly are you doing to make sure that they're capable once they they leave the facility?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Yeah. So for I will say the average DIVAS participant, which is like a really broad

[Unidentified committee member]: I apologize for the Reader's Digest.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: No. I was

[Unidentified committee member]: trying say

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: and did

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: they have a slide for that?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: I I think he was He's not

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: holding down. See?

[Unidentified committee member]: That's a very old reference. And I and I apologize.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: No. But if you don't say readers digest, I could talk for hours about it. That's important. But for your average person who's leaving, divas would connect them with we would do a release of information first to make sure that we can get in contact with everyone else they're working with in the building, parenting services, job placement, substance use programming, their caseworker, so we can have a team approach in the building. We try to make sure people are connected to a domestic violence organization wherever it is that they're going to afterwards, making sure that every other contracted service has helped them with food stamps, identification, Medicaid, setting up doctor's appointments, working with Department of Labor. All of those services are kind of checked off before they go, appointments are set up, and then once people have left the building, I'm available a few days a week when I'm not in the correctional facility. I work remotely to support people, accessing those referrals, helping people with intake, paperwork, housing applications, anything that didn't get finished while they were still interested. Thank

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: you. And I know this is part of the conversation, but you do that now with detainees as well? Yes, we do it with both. Fantastic. So, I'm off the question. The short version of how you do the reentry, preparation for detainees when you don't know when they're going be released. Yeah. Because it could be at any point.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: It varies a So lot,

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: how do you navigate that?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: A lot more, again, I'm gonna speak about the general detainee, knowing that there's a lot of variation in there, it's sort of, person may say, I have a court date coming up. I think there's a chance that I'm released from court So that we would say, okay, in the event that you are, let's write everything down that we need. Let's do those referrals in place. We're one of the few people, there's two other services that are in contact with people post release in the building, so we try to make sure that we can be a point of contact of if your medication wasn't set up in time, let's do a release to make sure I can let somebody know, kind of like a middle contact. You know, do you have, if you leave a place that you can go to get a close, your basic needs, are you gonna have a place that you can stay if you're released unexpectedly? It is tricky though, because it varies so much.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: Depends on the case, and try to predict it as best you can.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Right, and giving people the tools of, if something unexpected happens, how are you gonna cope with the stress in the moment and not feel like you have to make a decision that puts you in an unsafe predicament because it's maybe what was happening before, what's your best area.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah. Oh, yeah. So then I have a question about, so if they don't have a place to go, what happens then?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: If somebody was really it's less common that somebody is released from court without a place to live. A lot of times if they're being Unless charges are dropped entirely and they're not on any sort of supervision, they usually have some sort of condition for housing. If they don't have a place that they can submit to the field for housing, they'll usually come back to the correctional facility until they can secure that. Okay.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Unidentified committee member]: And we have plenty of time. And can you even

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: give us, like, the ranges and give us not not just the average one. Give us the outliers too.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: We've we've had people though that are that are released from court in their jail uniform. Oh, wow. Like, without anything. And are maybe in, like, a county that they're not familiar with. Like, that's one extreme end of the spectrum.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: Yeah. And I guess I just wanna point out that women are all in Chitin. Mhmm. Mhmm. And they're they can often be released in Chitin, especially if it's a remote hearing. They don't live in Chitin.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: The folks that are coming back to Bennington, it's just another after. Just so you guys know, I'm a prosecutor in Bennington, so hearing all of this has been

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: important. The bus routes to Bennington is one thing that I'm very, very familiar with how hard it is to get from Chinden to Bennington via public transportation.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So you do work with public transportation? Or We're just trying to find people that

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: is gonna get them where they need to be in a reasonable amount of time.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Alright. So, that's because I work in transportation. Yeah. So, that's something we can talk about in the future. Yeah. Just make that more understandable and logical.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Yeah. But it's, I mean, for someone who's leaving a correctional facility that is maybe doesn't know where they're going to go, and then you're handing them a packet of like, here are the five bus exchanges you need to do to get back to where you were from. It's just it's a lot of information all at once, and that's when we see some of even the skills that people have developed, you know, grounding, mindfulness, all kind of like can go out the window when you become so inundated with the unknowns of leaving corrections?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right. And so there isn't any service that takes people back to where they were. If they have money, is there something they could pay for? Something to take

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: that back? They maybe. People have family members that will arrange rides for them sometimes, but a lot of times they're looking for a friend or family member to come and get them, which is harder from the southern part of the state.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Right. Right. I'm just thinking about the volunteers that are in the other parts of the state. Do volunteers ever come and get them?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Not that I'm of. Sometimes the Vermont Freedom Fund will give people that they're bailing out, provide somewhere, but it's usually only like within shouldn't be

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: counted. Okay. Alright, so that's something. Yeah. I'll be on the alert for that. Okay. Okay.

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: We're going to talk a bit more about detainees, but I was wondering, Helen, is there anything you want to share beforehand around support for correctional staff?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Oh, yeah. Another part of our programming is training. Diva's provides trauma informed care training to corrections, security staff, field probation and parole, pretty much anyone from the Department of Corrections. We've done trainings at central office as well on the specific needs of working with survivors of violence who are incarcerated, that compounded trauma aspect, the best ways to support people who are going through that experience, as well as taking care of themselves as staff members. The experience of working in a correctional facility can also be traumatizing, and the understaffing at DOC isn't a secret, so a lot of people are really overworked and experiencing a lot in addition to their personal lives, so we do a lot of work on how to take care of yourself as a professional working for incarcerated people as well.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: That's interesting. And so, I'm sure the groups are different, right? Do you have just corrections officers together when you have a group doing that? Or do you, I would imagine you don't mix the corrections officers and the

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Oh, no, no, no. Our trainings are only for corrections staff and security and administrative staff. Would never mix

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: the And administrative

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: all support for correctional officers is one on one or does any of that happen in

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: a group setting? We don't do groups or individuals with corrections officers regularly. We've had corrections officers referred to our program before, if our services are available to anyone working in corrections. So, if they have questions or an experience of violence, or I've had corrections officers say, you know, I think my neighbor is experiencing something like this, is there somewhere I can refer them? Our services are available and confidential to staff as well. The trainings do happen in a group setting.

[Unidentified committee member]: Okay.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: And with the increase in population, DEMIS has seen an extreme increase in the services that we have been providing. Like I said, it's me and two part time staff in the building, And between July December '25, just this past six months, seen a 69% increase in participants of the GBUS program, seventy nine percent increase in the number of people participating in group programming, and a 66% increase in the number of people served overall. This is the busiest that DIVAS has ever been. September was far and away the most number of people we've ever met with, and the number of obsessions that we have is really staggering. And that's across the board, working with sentenced people, working with detained populations, it all increases. DIVAS was part of a group of contractors that received funding from the Justice Reinvestment Initiative, and some of that funding could be used for We used some of it for programming, and other parts of it were used indirect assistance for anyone at CRCF to help them with securing housing, transportation, leaving the correctional facility, back rent and utilities, as well as communications. We're helping people assisting them with cell phones as they were leaving, which is really essential for keeping up with appointments, probation and parole, parent child visits, all of those kinds of things. So, the number of reentry services, specifically, from last year to this year increased by 175%. So, we've been feeling the same kind of anxiety and stress of how many people are in the building and how many people are in need of services.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Thank you for your work. What, do you have to tell people I can't take you, or what, what, what do you do? You just have bigger groups, is that? Yeah, bigger groups. We try to

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: run as many group sessions as possible. Our waiting list for groups is generally about, like, 30 people who are on the waiting list. We try to keep groups to, like, 12 people or so just because too many people just becomes a little chaotic. But we've had waiting periods up to two weeks for having a one on one meeting, letting people know we're moving through these as quickly as possible, but wanna give everyone meaningful time in our office as well. Yeah, just

[Unidentified committee member]: increase Yeah, okay,

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: it all cost so some people aren't getting service or aren't getting it timely. Yeah, and we

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: try to triage, you know, what's happening most imminently, if people are leaving, if there's an emergency happening. And actually, one more thing that I forgot to mention was DIVAS has a MOU with the Department of Corrections around PREA. So any sort of report about PREA made in the facility between two incarcerated individuals or an incarcerated person and a staff member, DIVAS is involved in all those investigations to support the survivor of that. And TRIA is? The Prison Rape of Elimination Act.

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Are the perspectives that we bring to our policy and administrative work on justice involved women, and we have been deeply involved in these conversations for many years, including those over the last couple on the Women's Facilities Stakeholder Group, which DOC has convened since 2022, and the group was finalized with a letter of intent from Chair Alice Simmons and the House Corrections and Institutions Committee in 2023. And the objective behind this group, the intent of the legislature, is to develop a replacement facility that promotes successful rehabilitation and brand create for justice involved women. Part of that is the physical space, but really the heart of it is what programming is provided at the facility and how does the space accommodate the kind of programming that's needed. It's within this stakeholder group that we've been discussing in some detail the deteriorating conditions and significant increase of people incarcerated at CRCF. The overall population increase is primarily, as we've all noted, an increase in the number of state detainees, which regularly comprises over half of the people at CRCF. These are folks who are awaiting trial and can be there anywhere from days to weeks. And you can see on the chart that was provided by the Department of Corrections a visual representation of the drastic increase in detainees over the last couple of years and in particular the last year. At a high point in September, there were 183 people incarcerated at CRCF, including 93 state detainees. This increased population has really stressed CRCF, which is meant to accommodate up to 88 women in optimal conditions. So that disparity is pretty drastic. Between needed construction at CRCF to become ADA compliant, and these high census numbers, incarcerated people are sleeping in cots, in common spaces, and in the gym. The yard is being used to stage construction, and so access to outdoor space has been restricted since the late fall. And these are really crisis conditions and underscore the need for a replacement facility. We are really looking for a clear plan for how this project will move forward at a pace that really reflects the crisis that we're in. And we have been having discussions about the need for a replacement facility for about ten years now, and do worry about what kind of conversations we'll be having in ten years, and if they will be similar to the ones we're having. We are also seeing that detainees entering CRCF have very high unmet needs. The majority are detoxing or using substances, and many are also experiencing homelessness and having difficulty meeting their housing condition of pretrial release. So, with all of these conversations, a subgroup of stakeholders really has identified the urgent need to improve reentry supports for detainees in the CRCF. As Kylan talked about, reentry is really critical for preparing incarcerated people, including detainees, for a successful reentry following release, and these services center on meeting folks' basic needs after they go. Successful reentry planning involves both community based survivors like Highland at DIVAS, as well as caseworkers at the Department of Corrections. So DOC caseworkers can interact with the courts, They have higher access to the offender management system, and, you know, contract reentry services complement those provided by DOC in meeting basic needs, community based referrals, non DOC housing, and can be that bridge for people after they leave the facility, but you need both to provide a successful reentry. So currently, DOC caseworkers can only provide services to sentenced individuals, not detainees. The Department of Corrections updated its policy in response to capacity restrictions in 2024. With gaps across the system for staffing, existing caseworkers are often diverted to stand in for correctional officers or operate remote court, so this prevents them from providing those critical casework services. And the consequences of unset reentry supports are very significant. Detainees can be released to situations that are unsafe, where they don't have their basic needs met, and, you know, as you noted, where they have a high likelihood of reoffending. Even something as simple as a person is incarcerated in the summer and released in the winter, and they don't have weather appropriate clothes. You know, these are some things that the DIVAS program can help with, but DOC casework capacity is also a critical piece of the puzzle. For detainees, there are some that could be eligible to await trial in the community if they were able to meet conditions of release, like securing housing or a treatment bed. And so the lack of reentry supports means that there are some people who are being incarcerated longer than required. In an end of situation, but especially now when the conditions at CRCF are at a crisis point, it's an injustice to have folks in that facility when when they don't need to be.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: Are you seeing folks, I don't think they're doing Bennington, but seeing folks with conditions of release that require them to have a house or else they're, or have a home or somewhere that you're not released just because of that?

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Mhmm. Yes.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: I thought that condition has gone away. Is that mostly in Chitney County?

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I don't know, Kyle, if you could

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: People being released to Chitney County?

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: No. So having a condition or release saying that you have to have a residence approved by the court before you release that all?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: The majority of people have that condition, in

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: my experience. Oh, might talk to you afterwards, trying out what case that is.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Yeah.

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: So, when we're thinking about both the need for a new women's facility, and also recognizing that we could get a plan to get us there, but that that isn't going to materialize this year. What can we do? And one thing that we can do is increase reentry services capacity at CRCF. So currently, are five caseworkers at CRCF. We estimate that three to five additional caseworkers are needed to meet the specific reentry needs of detainees. That added staff capacity to support detainees would also necessitate a revision of the department's policy that only provides reentry services to sentenced individuals. And as I noted, these conversations happening far beyond the network, and we have many partners within the women's facility stakeholder group, from the ACLU to other service providers in the facility, community members who are really committed to this proposal and were part of putting it together and wanted to acknowledge their work. We are very grateful for their partnership. And that is all that Kylan and I have prepared for you today. We really appreciate the time to speak with you and we would be happy to answer any questions.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate you having a very specific ask, the three to five, and it doesn't seem that big of an ask, my opinion, but we'll see. You've discussed this with the house cartoonist institutions, suspect. We sure

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: did at 11:15 today.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Oh, okay, great.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So that's the kind of thing that needs to be done now though, right? That's not something that we can wait till next year. Was DOC in the room when you talked about that?

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: They were not in person, but we have connected with the Department of Corrections about this proposal and they're aware of the ask.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. Okay. That's helpful. And, so my understanding is that the caseworkers were getting pulled off before the increase in detainees. So would you have been asking for, like two before this happened, you know, this increase in population happened?

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: It's a great question. I mean, these conversations have really escalated over the fall when we were seeing the drastic number of detainees in the facility. And so, you know, that's an assessment based on what we've been seeing for current conditions over the last couple months. Okay.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: And while 01/1983 was the high point in September, I think when I was there earlier this week, it's 176. The difference between the high point and what's currently happening is, yes.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: And 88 is the 80 suggested eight, yes. Okay. And then regarding recidivism, just in the general population, and I don't mean general population in the way that we just the system generally. It's about 40% that folks come back. Is it different in the women's facility?

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: I'm not positive. I think the most most updated information I have was from the JRI report years ago, but I think it was that people returned an average of three times, like, over the course of one sentence with violations of conditions of release. A lot of times, those were not new charges. They were, yeah,

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: just violations. But then after three times, they don't come back? Yeah, I think a lot of

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: times people end up, however long those are, they reach the maximum point of their sentence and are relieved from supervision. Alright,

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: I was kinda hoping that the recidivism would be less, but mean, need services when they're out too, so that might be an issue. Although I know a lot of people And are working on

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: it's a critical part of you know, the reentry piece of the puzzle that divas provide. Should they be enriched for post I should say the facility.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: That report was from 2021, which was right about when divas Mercy Connections and Vermont Works Women started shifting our services to work in the community as well. A lot of us received outside grants from COVID funding that allowed us to create the kinda, like, infrastructure for that. Right now, DIVAS is almost entirely funded by the Department of Corrections, but we've maintained the ability to continue working with people afterwards.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Alright. So then, can you keep track of the number of folks who come back?

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: I think that the Department of Corrections and the courts have probably the best data to reflect those larger.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. Alright. Think that's I mean, it would just

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: be good to know. I think they have that number. We just talked about it in a stakeholder meeting within this past year, so I'm sure it's something that

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: we Okay, we can talk to you. Any Yeah. Other questions? Well, it's great that you guys came here. Thank you. And you can definitely, we can have you again. We'll take into consideration your request and talk about it. Want, does anybody have questions about the request?

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: The request, is that part of the DOC request do you have?

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: The, it's my understanding that the Department of Corrections hasn't released their budget yet.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: I was asking you to give us

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: a preview. I and no one else can give you a preview. Oh, yeah.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Yeah, and you're looking at it immediately also. And so I assume that that's not something that volunteers could do.

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Provide casework. Yes. No, I mean, as I noted, there's kind of communities providers and DOC caseworkers and, you know, things like accessing the offender management system and very sensitive data. There are a lot of barriers to volunteers providing those services, And it

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: would it would require, like, unsupervised work with incarcerated individuals. Oh. They would have to go through any sort of like security and background training with the Department of Corrections.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: Do you see those as permanent additions or just the short term until a new facility is brought online?

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: It's a great question. I mean, I see the vision of this facility articulated by the Department of Corrections as one with robust programming and reentry opportunities. And so I absolutely think that these kinds of supports would be needed in this facility and a replacement.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Okay. Any other questions? No. Okay.

[Kylan (Director, DIVAS Program, Vermont Network)]: Thank you

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: very much.

[Charlie Glisserman (Director of Policy, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Thank you very much. I appreciate the time.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: So, let's go offline. We'll check and see if, the surgeon arms and curator are around, so don't go too far.

[Unidentified committee member]: Well, I'm going over there. But you have to have to have have over to there now.

[Unidentified committee member (Bennington prosecutor)]: We're gonna get the pages.

[Sen. Wendy Harrison (Chair)]: Oh, okay.