Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: You're live. Alright. We're back. This is Senate Health and Welfare, and we're moving on to a very significant bill. It's a long bill, and it has a lot of components to it. So we're going to begin with the two reporters of the bill from the house. You for being here. This is the H nine thirty eight and it's an act relating to the homelessness response continuum. And it's something that we've been through, the issue is something we've been through in this committee as well as your committee. Last year it was estimated one, it's been in the budget, we've had an ongoing dialogue. The media is filled with what's going on with folks who don't have a place to rest their heads. So it's not a new issue to us, but the bill is definitely new to us. Thank you for being here.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: For the record, representative Erica Wyatt, Rollins City, member of the Human Services Committee, vice of the rest of the committee, thank you for allowing us here to say and to walk on through. H nine thirty eight, an act relating to establishing the Vermont homeless Response Continuum, represents a careful and thoughtful effort to bring greater clarity, structure, and consistency to Vermont's emergency housing system. Over time, our response to homelessness has grown in ways that we that were never intended. And, jeez, I gotta get a new set of glasses. You better be kidding me. There we go. Over time, our response to homelessness has grown in ways that were never intended, and our communities across the state have expressed the need for a more coordinated and predictable approach. H-nine 38 provides a clear framework that strengthens early intervention, supports at work with local partners, and ensures that emergency housing is delivered in a safe, organized, accountable, compassionate manner. At its core, the bill is about improving how we respond when the volunteers experience a housing crisis. It respects the need for timely assistance while also creating the conditions for longer term stability. It reflects the thoughtful input of providers, municipalities, the agency of human services, the administration, and community members, and aims to support both the individuals seeking help and the communities working to assist them. This is a practical, balanced, and forward looking step toward a more effective system that can better meet the needs of Avontas today and in years ahead. Page nine thirty eight aims to clarify and strengthen Vermont's emergency housing response as part of a broader health and human services system. Over recent years, as mentioned, the emergency housing, particularly through the General Assistance Emergency Housing Motel program, has been required to respond to increasingly complex needs, including behavior, health challenges, family instability, and chronic health conditions. The bill seeks a better aligned statute with current realities while recentering emergency housing as a stabilization, short term intervention that supports health, safety, and connection to services.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: I am Jubilee McGill, for the record. I'm from Bridgeport, represent four towns in Ann Cummings' Five, also on Human Services. And I'd say this bill represents a fundamental shift in how we respond to homelessness, from a reactive crisis driven system to a coordinated, accountable continuum designed to prevent homelessness, reduce it when it occurs, and ensure people can access and move on to stable permanent housing. Currently, Vermont has over 4,000 people experiencing homelessness, including hundreds of children, and our current system is fragmented, over reliant on hotels and motels, and it's not really designed, we're finding, to move people efficiently into permanent housing and long term stability. So this bill creates the Homelessness Response Continuum, which is a coordinated system of services that seeks to make homelessness rare, brief, and non reoccurring. So the bill kind of does four main things. It creates a coordinated statewide system. It establishes the Vermont Homelessness Response Continuum in statute in order to do that, which will be administered through DCF's Office of Economic Opportunity, and it helps to align providers, services, and access points into one system, and including our federal landscape. So it's all one system, rather than all of these pieces. So this replaces that fragmentation with accountability and coordination, and flexibility. It shifts away from hotel based emergency housing, with an explicit intent to reduce and ultimately end reliance on motel programs. It caps motel reimbursement rates in the transition period and ongoing, and it moves towards more appropriate, effective, and cost effective options. It builds a full continuum of housing options. Instead of one blunt tool, the bill creates a range of responses, including prevention and diversion. So we're stopping homelessness before it starts, and helping people move quickly out of homelessness whenever possible. Invest in emergency shelter, including low barrier shelter, as

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: well

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: as specialized options for people who may have unique needs, transitional and supportive housing, and also focuses on rapid rehousing and permanent housing pathways. We're meeting people where they are and not forcing one size fits all solutions on people in crisis. And finally, it invests in stability and not just shelter. It creates a rental assistance bridge program with up to twenty four months of rental assistance. It funds case management and supportive services in a way you haven't really been. And it prioritized long term housing outcomes. So the focus is on housing stability, and not just the temporary feastings. It would begin July 21. July 21, 07/01/2026, with phased implementation, and then full scope capacity would be expected by FY twenty eight. To get there, there's some rule making, both emergency and permanent, that happens, and it includes a legislative report back in FY in FY 2027, so we all have time to shift, to make make changes if needed. So this is a managed transition and not

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: a cliff for all of

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: the people, but then the administration and our service providers out in our communities. And then finally, the fiscal context, this was designed, the framework is aligned with the governor's overall recommended budget, about 82,600,000.0 in FY27, spending on homelessness services. We just reallocated things a little differently than the recommended budget, but overall, the fiscal amount is the same, and I think this provides an emphasis on cost effectiveness and provides better outcomes for dollar that we're spending. So if implemented as intended, this bill means fewer Vermonters entering homelessness or reentering homelessness, shorter stays when they do, and more people exiting into permanent housing rather than cycling back through crisis.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Yeah. Pass out of committee nine eleven, and we did do a roll call vote on the floor with one thirty three to four.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: It's a really great bill, really nonpartisan, a lot of collaboration. We worked really hard together and with a lot of the people you're about to hear from to really get to a place, something we could all agree on. I think we all have things we would change and like to see different, but some are places where we could all agree that this is the right path for the launchers. Thank you. Thanks for

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: your work on this. I know that I've been sort of keeping in touch with the amount of time and effort that House Human Services has put into this, and we appreciate your picking it up where it got dropped last year. And I know that there were some ruts in the road and frost heaves and all the rest, but they got here. Thank you. Are there any sort of unresolved issues that you identify in the bill?

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: I'm gonna hold off on that statement, and I'll let

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: folks Yeah. We'll find out.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Through your testimony of the players that are gonna be involved, I think those identified. And the reason why I wanna hold off on that because I believe that there was a great bipartisan common ground work through this. And I like the fact that we have this balance right here. And I there are there are certain things that do need to be tweaked on both ends, but the idea is that we keep that balance there. So I don't wanna be the one that flips the apple cart.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: Like I said, for other people, we all would have things we might wanna change personally,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: but I think our official position, yeah. But that's how we get things done in here. Yeah, yeah. So we look forward to seeing you all. Thank you. We've done a lot, and we appreciate it. Thank you for coming in. Thank

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: you. And I will forward like, send over an email that my floor

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: I know.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: He did the first half of the bill, and I did the second.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: So No. If you have reports, we would find them for you. We'll put a guide

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: up with our witness information. That would be so helpful, particularly to the committee.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: I'll take it over, paint

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: a greater picture and put put the trademark. Terrific.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Thank you for doing this. Thank Thank you, sir. Alright.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So we freed up some seats. That's a good except that one. So we're gonna move on. It's Katie and and all on five. Do you wanna go second?

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: I've got Katie.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Good. So, Katie, we have her new nine favorites. Oh, a lot of cheating. We did 88 yesterday. Oh, well, we can't compete. We did. That was a marathon. In one setting? Yeah. And she did give us a break. We had a break

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: for ice cream.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: She survives. So I've set up enough time here this morning on h 09:38 so we can go through it with Katie and then Nolan will give us the fiscal note. And then tomorrow we'll be coming back to it for some equal time. Yeah. Starting at 10:30. So, it'll be another hour and a half on it and we'll have the agency and and I see Commissioner Hoffman is here But we'll be in with Christian McClure or she's in. So we have two days of nine thirty eight just to get brought up to where the house left it. That's good. Thank you.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Good morning again. I'm Katie McLennan, the legislative council. I will share my screen and we can speak a little soon as Bill.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Sorry, go ahead. Check.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. There is the as past past version. I think maybe if just taking a moment before we look at the language on the page to talk about what the bill does. As you know, emergency housing has been an issue that has been dealt with by the General Assembly for many years. There was a proposal last year. This is a new, different proposal. Currently, way emergency housing is dealt with is in the budget. So each year there's sort of a new negotiated package in the budget. So this creates a program and statute that wouldn't be renegotiated every year. Spades the framework for what, how the response to homelessness would be moving forward if it were to be adopted. As the name implies, Vermont Homelessness Response Continuum, this creates a continuum of services provided either through the Office of Economic Opportunity or in partnership with community partners that are under contract. So I think that gives you a little bit of background information.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Let's jump in. So

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: we start with the findings section. These findings have been updated from last year's work, and the findings section has been narrowed and it's much larger last year. Although an imperfect tool for measuring the true number of unhoused Vermonters, the Vermont Homeless Management Information System, as of December 2025 indicated that there are 4,022 individuals who are homeless in the state, eight sixty three of whom were children under the age of 18.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So what I'm going to suggest is that we will be careful about reading through most of this so I don't want you to feel compelled to read the entire bill. Okay. But as we get to the definitive sections. Do you

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: want me to jump over legislative intent in the purpose section? Yeah. Okay. So that brings us to section four, page three. This creates a new chapter entitled 33, the Vermont Homelessness Response Continuum. So, this is everything that would be in the green books. You start off with definitions. I'm not going to go through every definition. I'll flag a few for you. It's worth noting that the definitions in the bill, I think, are pretty important. So it might be worth your time, our time, flexibly at some point to go through them in a little bit more detail. So, I'll bring you to the definition of disability. Can I

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: ask a question before you get there? Please. For the alternative housing options. Sure. Where it talks about master lease units. There's some things we're less familiar with in this committee. Okay. Maybe you can do a bit of a oh, there. Wait, are we no transitional housing?

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: We are.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: On page number one. Yeah. Just a brief insight into what might be included in all those.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: I think DCF is probably best to answer what is happening in practice, but as the name dies, A long standing lease with people perhaps coming and going from the unit. Okay, I'll bring it down to disability. Alright. Means physical, sensory, cognitive, developmental, or mental health condition or substance use disorder that substantially limits one or more major life activities, or that requires ongoing support, accommodation, or treatment to maintain an individual's health, safety, or independence. The term includes chronic or episodic conditions that significantly impact daily functioning, regardless of whether the individual is receiving or is eligible to receive federal disability benefits. We also have a definition of eligible households that should be read together with the definition of homeless. So first eligible household means a household that is homeless and is physically present and intends to reside in Vermont as evidenced by active participation in a housing, employment, or other AHS recognized plan. And then some definitions of emergency housing, highly structured shelter, homeless, page six, means lacking fixed, regular, and adequate nighttime residents, facing imminent loss of primary nighttime residents, fleeing or attempting to flee domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, stalking, or other dangerous or life threatening conditions that relate to violence against a household or a household member that either takes place in the primary nighttime residence or causes the household or household member to be afraid of to return to the primary nighttime residence. Subdivision D residing in a place not meant for human habitation, such as cars, parks, abandoned buildings, streets, or otherwise defined as homeless under federal law. We have definition of homeless, low barrier shelter. Sort of hard to choose which definitions to look at. I think at some point we should maybe dig down into most of these. You have a definition of supportive services. Means individualized supports that assist a household in obtaining and maintaining housing, intake assessments and services for diversion, household needs assessment, case management, individualized household plans, navigation services, assistance with cleaning housings, landlord tenant outreach, navigation and other services, progress monitoring, services to ensure continuity after permanently start. Okay, so that's our definition section. I think we'll probably come back, spend more time there at some point. We sure will. Okay. Top of page nine, section 2,202, this establishes the program itself. So the Vermont Homelessness Response Continuum established to provide an array of services to prevent and address homelessness administered by OEO. In subsection B, the office is to maintain a continuum of services that is flexible, housing focused, and designed to prevent homelessness whenever possible, prioritizes intervention, rapid resolution of housing crises, equitable access to emergency and permanent housing. And C, the program shall, provide temporary emergency housing to eligible households experiencing homelessness, or at imminent risk of homelessness, reduce reliance on hotels and motels for emergency housing assistance, expand use of alternative housing options in partnership with community organizations, municipalities, private landlords, integrate case management and individualized housing plans into all emergency housing placements, and ensure accountability, transparency, cost efficiency, and the use of public funds. 22.3, top of page 10, it kind of reads as an outline, and I think of this as the structure for what the program looks like. So this brings down each level of service, and then the rest of this chapter sort of tackles each of these levels one by one and provides more context. So you'll see this structure repeated a few times in the bill, first to sort of explain what the services themselves are, and then talk about eligibility and length of stay issues. So first, level one is prevention and diversion services. Level two is broken down into two categories: highly structured shelter services and low barrier shelter services. Level three: specialized shelter services. Level four, permanent supportive housing services. Level five, hotels and motels. And lastly, other emergency housing services. In subsection B, there's language that OEO is to address each of these services in a separate line item in the budget. The department is to be responsible for transfers to other AHS departments necessary to implement this chapter. The department and other departments within AHS are to maximize federal receipts for services in this section, in this chapter. Subsection C, upon assessing a household's needs, the office or the community partners are to place the household in the appropriate level of care to address the household's specific needs. And that brings us to page 11. And this is where we start walking through each of those levels. Yes.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: A quick question, and it could be later and it could be in a conversation ongoing, but so these are simply categories of shelter. There's no priority given to one or the other. It's simply where you need to go at a specific time. Is there any prioritization later on in the bill?

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Each of the levels sort of indicates that if a person can't be treated by a previous level, then they can be treated in the next level. There's kind of a sequential yes and no. There's also language. I'm not sure where it is off at my finger. When we get there I'll point it

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: out, sort it out. Just a question.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: There's language, oh it might even be in level one. Yes, I think it's one of the first sentences. Okay. That says, you know, this is the place to start, although connection can be made at any level. So there's some recognition that a household isn't necessarily gonna start at level one. They're gonna sort of be matched with

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: the level that's most appropriate for that household's needs. Is there I know that one of the concerns that many folks have had is trying to get people to permanent supportive housing as compared with hotels and motels. Is there any language in there that offers those priorities?

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: There's a lot of language in the intent and the purpose that we didn't spend time with, but that those I know. I'm sorry. Those indicate that there is the legislative intent to move away from hotels and motels and to utilize, build up other services. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, 22.4, top of page 11, this is level one, prevention and diversion services, and we have a definition definitely for diversion, and I'm not 100% sure about prevention in the definition section. Prevention and diversion services function as the primary entry point for this continuum, again, although connection may be made at any level. The office is to ensure that prevention and diversion services are provided through an agreement with one or more community partners in each region of the state in a manner that accommodates an eligible household's disability, if any. All households, upon request for assistance, shall receive a brief standardized initial prevention and diversion assessment to identify safe alternatives to homelessness and resolve immediate barriers. Prevention includes activities to avert entry to homelessness. Diversion includes problem solving interventions and supports that safely resolve housing crises without the use of shelter or hotel placements. And we have language that funds administered for prevention and diversion shall have maximum flexibility. So that is our Prevention and Diversion. 22.05 is Shelter Services. Again, this is broken into two categories. So there are highly structured shelters and low barrier structure, low barrier shelters. And as the name suggests, highly structured provides more robust services. Low barrier is to get people safely sheltered without a lot of hurdles. So throughout we have this language, to the extent funds are appropriated for this purpose, the office shall determine the need for highly structured shelter services and develop sufficient shelter beds that address that need. The department through the office is to enter into contracts with community partners for the provision of highly structured shelter services for a period of not less than two years at a time. And we have language that highly structured shelters shall provide programming that emphasizes case management, housing stability, employment, education or treatment services, as well as other services as appropriate in a manner that accommodates the eligible households disability if any. Eligible households receiving these services are to participate in case management and other services to the extent of their ability. So that is really what distinguishes this A, this highly structured, from the low barrier. It's the programming and the participation in case management.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So under the definitions or the program components, it's got highly structured, What is the definition of how it's structured? A

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: shelter that provides programming that emphasizes case management, housing stability, employment education or treatment services, as well as other services appropriate in a manner that accommodates an eligible household's disability, if any. So, it's this same language in the definition that's here in the text. And there are a few places where there's language from the definition that is reiterated in the text itself. Subdivision 3, the office, meaning OAO, shall ensure that these shelter services are provided in a facility that meets the Vermont Fire and Building Safety Code. And in Subdivision 4, this is the language I was referring to before, you'll see it again, If ineligible households and needs cannot be met with the level one prevention and diversion services of the chapter, highly structured services are preferred initial placement if capacity staffing and geographic accessibility are available. Okay, that brings us to fee, this is low barrier. So again, to the extent funds are appropriated, for this purpose, the office is to determine the need for the low barrier shelter services and develop beds to meet that need. The department through the office is to enter into community, into agreements with community partners for the provision of these shelter beds for a period of not less than two years. Low barrier shelter shall minimize barriers entry by reducing the rules and programmatic requirements found in highly structured shelters, while still providing case management and other housing support services in a manner that accommodates an eligible household's disability, if any. Stays in the low barrier shelters shall be time limited. Eligible households shall be transitioned to highly structured shelter services or permanent housing as soon as possible. Same language about the Vermont Fire and Building Safety Code. Same language about the needs being met that can't be met by level one. This is a potential next stop. Okay, that brings us to 22.06, level three, specialized shelter services. You know, that should say specialized

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: shelter services. Maybe just sort of scroll down and let's see where people are with questions. Sure. Anybody have

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: a good point? It'll be vacant. I'm sorry.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Like in our area, I think Newport has, shelves. I'm I don't understand as of yet how this is going to increase the number of beds in our area when I think they're probably at capacity already, unless there's money available for acquiring new facilities. I don't think people will looking you. You're not the one to answer, Clinton. This bill actually is it actually going to get us more beds? At least in my area. It probably it may in in more city like areas and things of that nature, I'm just concerned that if there's not a lot of money spent, whether or not we're going to be able to meet the capacity, because that is very alarming. I didn't know there

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: was 4,000 individuals who were almost eight sixty two of which are children 18. So I'm not sure, as we go

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: through this bill, it's going to resolve a problem that I see in our area.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So this is a really good question, and one of the people to answer how much money is known, and then when we have the commissioner in tomorrow, we'll be able to get to that.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: That

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: is a huge question, I think, for everyone. Are we going to have sufficient buildings and service Yeah, make sure that what we're putting in here fits with the local needs in our own Good question. Senator, just so I'm clear, the special item, no, the low impact show, low barrier, that generally means you don't necessarily have to be clean and sober. It's my understanding it's less of a barrier than getting into other shelters where you can't have any signs of intoxication, you can't be on drugs, you can't or you're taking you in in that first place and they're offering you services to get you to that better state. What barrier you come, you go, you're gonna get case management. The higher barrier you're going to get programming. I'm just wondering if we give you programming and then send you back out onto the street, or is this a place where you will stay twenty four seven? I'm trying to so this is the kind of question. If I don't yeah. If I if I can go with a low barrier and not have to really change my lifestyle for two years, then why am I some people will, but many of the people out there probably won't. Okay. So, these are the questions as people are listening around the room and up on the screen and they're gonna come in and help us understand how and if, if and how, this bill will resolve the problem we've identified. And Katie is gonna

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: do it even better. No. No. That's a great question.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: But I encourage you both just

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: echo two years. And are you reading so this I'm reading two years at

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: a time. So what does that mean? Oh, that's the contract for the

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: whole therapy organization. Thing in episode. So that's

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: not clear. That's interpretation.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: That's what I thought when you said that. Was like, oh, I think we're reading this two different ways. Okay.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So we could definitely open That's the agreement with the community partners.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. Yes. About the people.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: That should

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: That doesn't say that.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Go very. So that's to have a continuity for the for the providers. So they instead of an every year turnover on the contract, that they have a little more stability for their planning, but it's not the length of time that a household is staying in a little barrier shelter.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Well, now that's triggering another question.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: That's a address. Put Well your questions down, write down, write on your bill, write the questions down, and then as folks come in and talk about these sections, you'll be able to ask those questions appropriately. Commissioner Hoffman, you're gonna get lots

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: of questions. Shall I continue on? Please. Okay. We're at

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: the bottom of page 13.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah, we're making good progress. So level three is specialized shelter services. I'll update this. So again, to the extent funds are appropriated for this purpose, the relevant AHS departments shall determine the need for and the extent funds permit, I don't think we need that twice, shall develop specialized shelter services that comply with the fire and building safety code as well as any other applicable standards relevant to that specialty population. The relevant AHS department shall enter into agreements with community partners for the provision of specialized services for a period of not less than two years. So, language, instead of contracting or having an agreement with a community partner, AHS department specifically are providing or working towards these specialized shelter services. So what comes to mind is maybe the health department implementing a shelter specific to individuals with substance use disorders. Or Dale implementing, creating some type of shelter service for individuals with a specific disability. So that's what's envisioned here. In Subdivision 2, these services are delivered in a highly structured shelter, as well as additional specialty services such as services for substance use disorder, mental and physical health conditions. Eligible households receiving these services are to participate in case management and other services to the extent of the household's ability. And again, this language, if needs can't be met in previous levels and a person has a need, specialized service need that could be addressed by the shelter, this would be the appropriate fit for them. That brings us to page 15, which is permanent supportive housing. In Subdivision 1, AHS or any department within the agency is to provide or enter an agreement for permanent supportive housing that combines long term community based rental assistance with voluntary supportive services, such as family supportive housing or other supportive housing services funded in whole or part by Medicaid if the household, both the household and the services are eligible for Medicaid. In two, eligible households that are receiving this are to participate in case management, planning for housing stability and other services to the extent of their ability. Same language, if your needs can't be met by a prior level, then this could potentially be the appropriate level of service for you. 22.08 brings us to level five, hotels and motels. This language is repeated, it's in earlier sections of the bill, but it's the intent of the general assembly to decrease reliance on hotel and motel rooms. However, until sufficient permanent affordable housing or shelter services are available, the use of hotel and motel services shall be permitted. In Subdivision 2, if a hotel or motel is utilized pursuant to this action, the department shall enter into an agreement with one or more community partners to provide relevant supportive services to eligible households, permit population specific placement to the extent certain populations are not isolated from the wider community, search through the program, propose hotel and motel rates as part of the budget presentation, for the general assembly's consideration, use only those rates established by the general assembly, enter into agreements for the use of blocks of hotel and motel rooms and negotiate conditions for the use of those blocks, including access to providers or case management or other supportive services with space to provide services as negotiated, and ensure that services are not provided on a night by night basis. So, some of this language should be a little bit familiar because some of this language is pulled from what is currently in the budget with regard to the fiscal '26 iteration of emergency housing. Top of page 17. If a hotel or motel is utilized, the household shall participate in case management services, planning for housing stability and other services to the extent of their ability. We have language that the hotel or motel has to comply with the licensed lodging and establishment rule, the health department's rule, and also the Vermont Fire and Building Safety Code. And then we have more specifics. Two of the exempt funds appropriated for this purpose. Between April 1 and November 30 of each year, the utilization of hotel and motel rooms is capped at 700 rooms per night. Between December 1 and March 31 of each year, the utilization of hotel and motel rooms is capped at 1,000 rooms per night. And then we have language that the hotel and motel rooms utilized by individuals who are served under section six zero two of this title, which we haven't looked at yet, specific to individuals receiving services that are currently or have experienced domestic or sexual violence, any hotel motel rooms used by that population shall not be included in the room caps provided up above. And again, this language, if a household's needs cannot be met by levels one through four, this could potentially be the right level for the household to be served at. Then we move on to section two four nine, which is other emergency housing services. This is broken into three paragraphs, and I have reader assistance in each of these. These are sort of three unique yeah, unique or, services, separate services. So first is municipal sports. The department, through the office, is to provide grants to municipalities in areas of the state with a high volume of unsheltered homelessness, including those municipalities underserved by traditional funding sources. The use of this aid is at the discretion of the municipality and includes providing access to basic life sustaining shelter when the National Weather Service declares a cold weather advisory. Shelter provided pursuant to this section shall be time limited, shall not require coordinated entry assessment or case management, and shall have minimal data reporting requirements. Next is emergency cold weather shelters. That's a defined term in your definition section. Maybe I'll just jump there for the time being because we have the degrees listed there.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: So, mister Mhmm. I think a lot

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: of communities are already building this to a certain degree. I think I mean, we do.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Our municipal building is a emergency shelter for people for tolls, the use of power or anything like that.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: So, probably lots of these services are happening now and this integrates it into one program. This is also requiring that there is state money that is going to For grants,

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: but they're getting perhaps updated. Okay.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Grants, It's not requiring, isn't it saying to be able stand? To show. Yeah, everything is on the If

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: I can interject real quick. Part of it is I'm talking about this, what happened is the budget put the money in, the 82,600,000.0 in the budget, and this bill specifies how that 82,000,000 is getting spent. But they were done separately, this doesn't have the money appropriated, It just has how the money should be spent. That's why it had that language. It's the there.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: So we gotta break it down and because

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: they were writing this bill before the budget passed.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So we gotta break it up today.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: They to coordinate. There's a piece of that.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Hate to be back up. So, that's language that will be ongoing on statute permanently. So it will require an appropriation And like appropriation. Each of these items in order for them to be triggered in a fiscal year.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: It's not session law, it's not budgeted, it is fixed in statute.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: So for example, the prevention and diversion services that we've offered to the extent funds are appropriated for that purpose. If for whatever reason a future legislature says we're gonna fund levels two through five, but we're not gonna fund level one this year, then potentially those services are not happening because the language leads off to the extent the funds are appropriated for this purpose.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: That's like a piggybacking.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: Yeah.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: The $82,000,000 I'll show you on my fiscal note is split up between base, base one time, one time, federal, so it's like, not like a lump sum, and it's multiple funds to separate So such that's to, be back on, can't even say that's

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: So are we gonna make recommendations to appropriations depending on how you want those dollars set, or is

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Let's that go through the bill.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: I'll I'll answer that one at this point. Alright.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: We'll hear we'll hear from Dolan.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: And then Katie, you're making the comment.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: We're a good team.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Stuff. The covered member center, it's more complicated than

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: that. I know. Okay,

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: so we've covered A, I'm just about to go through the definition of emergency cold weather shelters. So it means publicly funded shelter beds made available to households during periods when the National Weather Service is forecasting temperatures at or below country degrees currently, including wind chill for a majority of the state. So, emergency weather shelters shall be managed through agreements between the office and one or more community partners to provide overnight low barrier shelter when weather conditions warrant. The office and community partners shall ensure equitable access to emergency cold weather shelters for communities with a high number of households experiencing unsheltered homelessness. Shelter provided pursuant to the subsection shall be time limited, shall not require coordinated entry assessment or case management, and shall have minimal data reporting requirements.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: So that's a loaded one there only because community partners are gonna determine when conditions warrant.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Right. So take it down.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: It could be different everywhere.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: I know. Everywhere you go, everybody's gonna say something different. Maybe. But not even anybody. You know? That's okay, please. No, this is good. Okay, thank you.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Page 19 is Alternative AHS Housing Solutions. AHS through its various departments provides households with other time limited permanent or permanent housing. These services include recovery housing, various residential supports for individuals with intellectual or developmental disabilities, home care services for older Vermonters, individuals with physical disabilities, transitional housing for individuals exiting, correctional custody, residential options for individuals with mental health challenges, emergency housing provided through the program is not intended in lieu of access to these other AHS time limited or permitting permanent housing options. Okay. That brings us to the household's responsibilities, 22 to 10. So again, within the funds appropriated for this purpose, the household shall qualify for services under the program if the household is physically present and intends to reside in Vermont as evidenced by active participation in housing, employment, or other AHS recognized plans. So again, we looked at that definition. That's the definition for what an eligible household is. They agree to coordinated entry assessment that prioritizes the household for permanent housing, unless explicitly exempt under this chapter, and we've seen that, for example, the low barrier shelter. Engages with a lead paced management entity, such as Department of AHS or community partner, to develop a housing plan and participate in employment treatment or other activities as appropriate, unless explicitly exempt from the case management by this chapter by federal law, and abides by program rules and refrains from misconduct. We have a definition of misconduct. We'll get there. In subsection B, the office of a community partner, the office or a community partner, I'm sorry. Good one is to provide clear written notice to applicants regarding penalties for fraud at the time of their application for the program. And then Subdivision 2, the office of the community partner is not to impose a penalty for a household for a good faith immaterial error that was corrected upon notice within a reasonable period of time.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: Thank

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: you, Katie. Are all my possible responsibilities for each of the levels, are they applied at all of the levels?

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes, unless there's a particular exemption, like the gaze management. Okay, thank you. And three, a household that knowingly provides false, misleading, or incomplete information regarding their residency, disability status, household composition, or other eligible criteria shall be subject to termination within thirty days after receiving written notice from the department or community partner. Pending the outcome of a relevant Human Services Board hearing, the office may refer cases of suspected fraud to the AG's office or state attorney for investigation or prosecution under applicable state law. In C, a household may be terminated from the program for repeatedly refusing a suitable placement following documented suitability assessments and reasonable accommodations. And then page 21, subsection D. A member or members of an eligible household may be subject to immediate termination. So previously we talked about termination with thirty days notice. Immediate termination, as necessary for the safety of others, if the member or members engage in criminal activity or misconduct that is not related to having a disability or victimization related to abuse, sexual assault or stalking. So this member or members, the conversation upstairs was reflecting on the fact that the whole household need not be immediately terminated if one member of the household is causing this safety issue. Here is the definition of misconduct. Means documented behaviors that materially endanger the safety of others, involve the intentional destruction of property, or constitute illegal activity.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So, all of these things that we're going through, all of them, the questions will be subject to rule making?

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: There's a rule making section. And yes, many of the elements that we're kind of discussing now that rule making requires more specificity, but it's definitely worth looking at what's in the list and seeing if there's anything missed.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: What if a household is put in a rental property or something like that? They're there for x amount of years, they're well established,

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: have children, schools, need services, but then they've been determined that there is suitable housing somewhere else. Can they be moved even though they have they they have a need for certain types of services, schooling, what have you there? Could they be thrown out of that? Does it say any weird?

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: I think that's a better question for the field to understand what happens in practice now. If there are certain circumstances why only a specific type of housing placement is appropriate for them, I think it would be much harder to move them. And there's language at some point that takes into account termination termination or of services might not be appropriate if there is sort of a specific need That's what was that be met elsewhere.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: That's what I was

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: trying to I'll try to flag that when we get there. Okay. Then we have a section on prioritization. The office, either directly or through its community partners, has to prioritize services within the funds appropriated to eligible households who are homeless, or at risk of becoming homeless, and have a member who is either 65 years of age or older, has a disability, has a minor child, is pregnant, is experiencing domestic violence, dating violence, sexual assault, stalking, human trafficking, or other dangerous or life threatening conditions. And so, I'm

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: not sending this to fund, yes. Yep, he's age 65. About the age of 65. Oh. Geriatric. Okay. I've argued no. I know. I I

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: floor. Get Item six is under court ordered eviction or constructive eviction due to circumstances over which the household has no control. And then, we have the subdivision B1, that proof of an eligibility, eligible households disability, sorry, English is escaping me right now. Proof of an eligible households disability shall be verified by either a healthcare provider who's licensed or certified and practicing in Vermont, a determination or certification from a state or federally recognized agency or program that provides services to individuals with disabilities, or the household could have a self attestation subject to verification by the state or community partner within thirty days when other documentation is not reasonably available at the time that they're submitting their application. In subdivision two, the presence of an eligible household member's disability shall be verified by the office or community partner during the initial application and it should be redetermined annually if the household is still receiving services after a year. A household with a member who has a lifelong disability, like an intellectual disability or a developmental disability shall not be required to have their disability redetermined annually. Then we have language that, yep, no, never mind. Okay. That all the office and participating community partners are complying with the ADA, section five zero four of the Rehabilitation Act, for the purposes of providing modifications, effective communication, accessible placements. They're already required to do this by federal law. Top of page three, program rules and case management requirements shall be reasonably modified, including the use of plain language as necessary to avoid discrimination against eligible households with a member with disability. That brings us to 2,212, and this is the time limits for program participation. So you will see that this is structured as a list of levels, so it's modeling the structure that we've already set up. So for level one, that was prevention and diversion. Any temporary housing that is not provided in the form of temporary rental assistance through the program's prevention and diversion services are not to exceed thirty days on a rolling twelve month period. Level two is shelter. The office, in collaboration with shelter providers, shall establish a maximum length of stay in highly structured shelters and low barrier shelters in rule or shelter standards. Level three was specialized shelters. So, the department in collaboration with relevant AHS departments is to establish the maximum length of stay in specialized shelters and rule or shelter standards. Level four permanent supportive housing services may be utilized by an eligible household for as long as the eligible household's plan indicates it is necessary.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Well, these could change depending upon where you are. Because of who?

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: I need a little bit more slack.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: I'm just saying so, level three department of collaboration, other relevant agencies, food service providers shall establish a maximum length of stay in specialized children's. I missed the providers. I'm just saying, do the providers develop some of these rules as well?

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Rule refers to like the official rule making process that the department would have to go through.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: Okay.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Through LCAR.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Okay.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: But it does say rule or shelter standards, so there's also, but it wouldn't be the individual shelter, it

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: would

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: be the shelter standards for the state.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: Okay, for everyone. Okay, that's what I was getting at. Yep. Perfect, thank you.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. Page twenty four, level five is hotels and motels. So between April 1 and November 30 of each year, that's when there's the lower cap on how many hotels or motels can be used. Eligible households may receive housing at hotels and motels with supportive services for not more than seventy days per rolling twelve month period. Subdivision fee between December 1 and March 31 of each year. Eligible households may receive continual services in cold weather hotels and motels, which shall not be applied towards the time limit established in A. So any use of hotel or motel between December 1 and March 31 doesn't count towards the seventy days in A. Subsection B, the department can grant extensions to the time limits established in this section pursuant to criteria adopted in rule, including for an eligible household actively awaiting a placement in housing treatment or other services, medical necessity, lack of reasonable alternative, accessible placement for a member of an eligible household with a disability, imminent risk to the health or safety of one or more eligible household members. This is what I was thinking of when I was answering your question, that they're one of the reasons to grant an extension, because there isn't an accessible placement elsewhere. Okay. 2213 is case management services. Each eligible household shall be assigned a lead case manager, except where specifically exempt for certain services, which may be from AHS department or a community partner. The case management services provided pursuant to this chapter is to be informed by acuity level of that household and include individualized reports to connect the household with public assistance, health care, employment, permanent housing, and other services. A household may request a specific case manager or change in the case manager. Needs assessment. This requires the office and community partners to provide advice and consultation to the Department of Housing and Community Development in its completion of a needs assessment that identifies gaps in services for households that are homeless in the state and include recommendations to ensure provision of equitable services throughout the state. So this is work that the Department of Housing Community Development is already doing, to the best of my knowledge, and this is language that asks the office and community partners to sort of weigh in on that process. 2215 pertains to notice to households, appeals processes, and a right to a fair hearing through the Human Services Board. So first, the office or a community partner is to provide written notice to any applicant or household whose participation in the program is either denied, reduced, suspended, terminated. That notice has to include specific factual and legal basis for the officer or partner's decision. It has to include the effective date of the action, which in the case of termination, reduction extension of services is not to be sooner than thirty days after the date of the written notice and received in the household preferred method of communication. Top of page six, twenty six, sorry. We're still on notice, the statement of the ready to request a fair hearing, and clear instructions and plain language on the process and deadlines for filing an appeal. And we move to subsection B. So an applicant or a recipient of assistance under this chapter, they can file a request for a fair hearing through the Human Services Board when an application for assistance is denied in whole or part, the household's benefits are terminated, reduced, or suspended, or the household believes that benefits have not been provided in accordance with the applicable rules or policies. In subsection C, the applicant or household shall file request for a fair hearing with the board within sixty days after the date of the written notice. In subsection D, if a household files a request for a fair hearing within fourteen days after receiving that notice, the office or the community partner providing notice shall continue to provide services under the program without interruption, unless. So do you see the distinction there that while you can request a hearing after sixty days, if you request it within fourteen days, you can continue services. Unless, top of page 27, the household voluntarily waives those continued services, or the household's members continued receipt of services poses a safety risk to others. In subsection E, the hearing shall be conducted in accordance with due process standards, including the right to present evidence, cross examine witnesses, representation by counsel, or another authorized representative. In subsection F, the board is to issue a written decision, setting forward findings of fact, conclusions of law, basis for its decision, and the process for appealing the decision of the board to the Supreme Court. And G, if the board issues 20 substantially identical decisions brought by applicants or recipients of the Vermont Homelessness Response Continuum, the programs and community, the department and community partners shall adopt the board's interpretation as part of its administration of the program, and the department shall revise rules accordingly. In subsection, sorry, section 22.16, rule making, Should I pause for a minute? This is a lot of information. There is. Questions,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Human Services Board appeals process, and then the one that I would have questions about is G. When you get 20 identical decisions then it becomes policy.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: I guess We'll have some of of the violates for a hearing and all that stuff would probably be I don't imagine going legally, it's gonna be involved in some of this work.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: I imagine that would be the case for some of them.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Yeah. Yeah, it requires a level of executive functioning that's not everybody. That's my point. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll hear about this and be able to express your heart insurance. I'm just seeing this as something that makes us up here in our ivory tower or. I'm having difficulty visualizing how it's going to play out on the street. Yeah.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: I mean, I think simpler is less much better in these types of situations.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Well, we'll we'll we'll we'll come back to this. We need to hear from the agency about it and what actually is going on now and what drove this language. What motivated it? Okay. So, I keep moving. So, this

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: is my rule making section. I know there's always curiosity about what is required by rules. So, here is a list. This is addressing at minimum. So, the rules could be more expansive, and this is also, as I go through this, an opportunity to think through if there are obvious things that should be in the rule that were omitted, as you have heard developed so far. So, requirements for community partners, community providers participating in

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: the

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: program, standards for the three shelter types, documentation requirements for household eligibility, including disability, required elements for supportive services, including face management, creation of brief standardized initial assessment form that may be completed by hand, electronically, or by telephone, A process for issuing timely written approval or denial notifications to applicants. A process for issuing advance notice to households when the household is being terminated from the program. Applicant and household appeal procedures, time limits for program participation, including procedures for extensions, expectations for the office's oversight and quality monitoring, and other subjects as deemed necessary. There is an annual reporting requirement in twenty two-seventeen. It's part of the department's budget presentation, so it's not a written report. Put it as a status report that is to address each of the five levels of the continuum, and it shall also address number of households served, average length of participation for households within each level, the rate at which households successfully transition to permanent housing, number of households diverted from entering shelters, hotel or motel placements, utilization of hotels and motels, including average nightly number of rooms, average median length of stay, the extent to which hotel and motel usage has decreased relative to the prior fiscal year, household, excuse me, housing stability outcomes, an assessment of regional capacity and access to services, total expenditures by continuum level and funding source, operational barriers to implementation of the continuum, along with recommendations for administrative or legislative action.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So, let's go up to a higher level on the rest of district. Okay.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: So B is goal setting for increased housing capacity. C, in the last day of each month, the office or relevant agency or department is supposed a monthly report similar to what you're getting now on emergency housing. Next, section five, a merger for continuums of care. Right now, there are two continuums of care in the state. This asks OEO the two continuums to work with HUD to consolidate to one continuum by October 1. There's a status update on that. Section six grant requirements. This is language added to the chapter that we just walked through at a later date once the continuums have potentially been consolidated. And this is language specific to grants that are executed by the agency for this program. I'll skip over that. Section seven, I think is important. So let's pause here. This language recognizes that while the new chapter that we just walked through takes effect July '26, that it's not feasible to have all aspects of the program operational in July '26. So this is language that says that to the best of its ability, the department is going to start implementing the program 07/01/2026, and take the year to continue to transition to the program, build up capacity, so that by the time, sometime during fiscal year twenty twenty, program shall be up and running at full capacity, but it won't be fully implemented this coming fiscal year. So this is sort of transitional language to recognize that some aspects of the programs are going to be operational, some are not, but continue to work towards full, being fully operational by fiscal year twenty eight.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Can you just a little typo with that? Oh, this is actually set that homelessness. Transition to the Vermont homelessness. There's a pee he just left out. Yes. You're right. Thank you. Good to know. She's.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: I know. I'm fired. Think of all the times as a red thing. I know.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: It feels like She's

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: focused. Legalize. You're hired. Good

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: to know. You've all been. Pretty much. That was seven before? Yes. Section

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: eight is interim rule making. This creates timelines for permanent rule making and for emergency rule making. Subsection eight just says pending the adoption of permanent rules that DCF is to adopt and maintain emergency rules that meets all of the criteria that we looked at in statute. And those would take effect on July '26, because if we're saying that parts of the program would be operational on July '26, then there would need to be emergency rules in effect at that time. So this language says that emergency rules, which are time limited and shorter, would continue to be adopted and maintained until, in subsection B, permanent rules are adopted on or before 10/01/2027. That was my question. Section nine is a status report that would come back to you February. Section 10, this is, I referred to this previously, this is setting out permanently in statute language specific to supportive services and shelter services for households experiencing domestic or sexual violence. This language was pulled in part from last year's bill. There is the creation of a Vermont Rental Assistance Bridge program. It's to be within the Vermont State Housing Authority. It's time limited. I think it's 2030 that this would be operational. I think we can look at that when we have more time. Payment rate structure. So as we already covered in the the text of the new chapter that's being created, the way that the rates would work is that for hotels and motels, or is that there's a requirement that every year during its budget presentation, AHS would recommend rates for hotels and motels. The general assembly would consider those and build those into the budget bill that's moving, because this is not, the program is not in effect yet. There is no requirement to bring that during the budget process. So this instead sets what the rate would be for this fiscal year, this coming fiscal year. Am I right on this?

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Fiscal year twenty seventh. Oh, that's section

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: 13, So I jumped this section, this requires DCF and AHS to establish a payment rate structure, including periodic rate reviews for all shelter services that are required. The structure is to include a base rate with a potential for supplemental payment if necessary. By April, the department is to submit a report on that rate. Section 13 is what I was thinking of. So this requires for fiscal year twenty seven DCF and Community Partners to not pay a motel or propellate establishment providing emergency housing for more than the hotel's lowest advertised room rate and not more than $80 a day. So this is what is in the budget right now. And this because there's not a proposal coming from the administration that's required under the new language that obviously hasn't been adopted, this is making that decision. Expenditures. This is the language that Nolan was referring to earlier. This is not appropriating the money. The 82,000,000 is appropriated in the big build, and instead, this is a breakdown of how that 82,000,000 would be utilized. I'm not gonna spend time here because you'll spend lots of time with Nolan talking about this. Section 15, there is currently in statute a general assistance program annual report that would be removed under this proposal. And then we have our effective dates. So as I said, most of the program takes effect July, noting again that transitional language that recognizes that not everything can be implemented on day one.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Okay. Well, we're just about ready to move this month. But this is gonna take a little time. Nolan, I'm looking at the time.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: I can go back.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: I think so. That's fine. I mean, we're looking at the bill again tomorrow. Sure. So we'll maybe put you right up front. Sure. Or would that be okay to give insurance? I think it would help. Okay. Good.

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: I'll be your opening hour. Alright. Thanks.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Yeah. So, one never knows how long it's going to take to go through a 40 page bill and it is a complicated bill and I appreciate that. Thank you very much. So we do have visitors or guests coming in today from the American Heart Association and others who would ask, as we do at the end of many of our meetings just to share with us a topic and an issue and I think what we'll do is we'll transition to that and we'll spend about seven minutes. We might go over a couple of minutes and do that. It's great. But thank you all for being here on this message. Appreciate it. Yeah.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Of my concerns that you do what you like is.

[Rep. Erica Wyatt (Vice Chair, House Human Services Committee)]: I wanna make sure we

[Nolan Langfeldt (Joint Fiscal Office, Fiscal Analyst)]: help you.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Makes me comfortable. That's fine. Course. Yeah. Better. Understood. Okay. So I don't know who's in charge here.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Well, have two guests that are online, and just given the time constraint, I'm going to maybe seek my time to So, if Maureen's on? Yeah, Maureen.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Wonderful. Why don't we do that? Maureen Borden is here. Why don't you go right ahead, Maureen, and thank you for being here.

[Maureen Boardman, FNP (Little Rivers Health Care)]: All right. So, I'm Morley Boardman. I'm a family nurse practitioner at Little Rivers Healthcare, which is an FQHC. I'm in the Bradford offices, but we also have offices in East Corinth, Wells River, Newberry. And I'm speaking today about our food pharmacy. We began our food pharmacy in 2020, receiving 200 to 300 pounds of donated fresh food from Willing Hands, which is a local gleaning organization in the Upper Valley, back in 2020. We now receive about 30,000 pounds of food over the course of the year from Willing Hands and another 7,000 to 8,000 pounds of food from the Vermont Food Bank to support our food pharmacy. In the 2025, we distributed 180 CSA shares from Route five Farm, resulting in 15 families receiving the CSA for twelve consecutive weeks. And then back just this past September, we held a Stuff the Van food drive at the Bradford Hannaford's after they donated a cargo ban for our food pharmacy program. Our food pharmacy affirms the premise of food is medicine, that access to nutritious food is critical to health and well-being by managing and preventing diet responsive conditions such as diabetes, high blood pressure, and coronary artery disease. Studies have shown that half the American adults have one or more preventable chronic diseases, and many of these are related to poor quality eating patterns. At Little Rivers, eight percent of our patients are food insecure, and seventy five percent have at least one chronic disease diagnosis. Currently, our food pharmacy program serves about 100 patients, and we currently have a three week rotation for food from the food pharmacy. We have a greater need. We just don't have the resources to expand it at this point beyond that number. And so I just want to say that, I mean, anyone who's been to the grocery store recently can attest to the fact that eating healthy is expensive and getting more expensive. Patients and families who are food insecure often rely on cheaper processed foods that have little or no nutritional value. And when you think about the difference between the cost of a box of Kraft macaroni and cheese at about 1.5 a box, that will feed a family of four. Then the average cost to make a basic homemade garden salad for four people is somewhere between 4 and $10 depending on the ingredients and the season. And my goal in starting the Little Rivers Food Pharmacy has been to create a dignified welcoming and comfortable atmosphere where free, healthy food can be easily accessed by our patients to use food as medicine to manage, treat, and prevent diet responsive chronic diseases in our rural community. And it touches a special place in my heart when my patients talk to me about how their lives and their health have benefited from access to our food pharmacy. And to join our food pharmacy, you have to have at least one chronic disease and also be food insecure.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: And that's all.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: That's great.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: You'd like a wrap up,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: chair? There you go, right ahead.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: All

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: right, thank you. I just want to share with you, this is a really important topic to us here and me explicitly. So this is a nice beginning, little look. I know we've had VYCCN talking and so I'd like hear your thoughts.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: Would you like just

[Kay Mullen (Bi-State Primary Care Association)]: a minute? Yeah. So, Kay Mullen, Biostate Primary Care Association. This is part of the Foodies Medicine Task Force. It is led by Biostate and brings together a whole host of key partners, including the American Heart Association, and really what our focus is in for the next few months is looking at what are our payment options so that we can really churn this kind of program into a sustainable program. Right now, it's pretty much funded by grants, grants end, and so then does the work. So, how can we really incorporate this into, say, our primary care reform? Like, can this be part of that conversation? Can we talk with Medicaid about the eleven fifteen waiver, talking to Progressive Shield about how they can support this, and how do we also work to support our uninsured and underinsured to make sure they have access to food. So, that's part of what this task force is doing, and over the next twelve months, we're gonna start putting together some proposals, and we're fully working with you all to come up with something and really something that we can dig our fingers in. Food related analogy. Sorry. The sourdough. Yes. Yes.

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: So this is something that we can dig our teeth into

[Kay Mullen (Bi-State Primary Care Association)]: next session. So thank you for the time and more to come and we're happy to have follow-up conversations as well.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Yes, and if you have time, go through the card room because

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: we have examples of two of the CSA shares that some of the patients would get in fitness medicine programs, They're yummy and one has sauerkraut and go quickly because I'm taking that. Like a half hour.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: All right. Thank you again. Thank you very much.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: Thank you. Thank you all. I appreciate your time. Ours is so limited that and we will be picking this up another time. I've actually talked to at least one other committee chair about how we can have some joint committee discussion on. Yeah. Because I think everything's nice to have.

[Rep. Jubilee McGill (House Human Services Committee)]: I testified at a house ad this morning in house health care,

[Katie McLennan (Legislative Counsel)]: and I've also previously in senate. Yeah. Yep.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair, Senate Health and Welfare)]: So, you know, it's time for us to got big plans for you. Yay. We like that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're a wrap.