Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Good morning, and Scott. Okay, we're live. Center Health and Welfare is back, and we are hearing from Jessica Barner from BMS on S-one 190. Thank you. Can you remind us what the bill is about? Okay. Jeff Farmer, Vermont Medical Society. Vermont Medical Society only has a position on a few sections of the bill, so the bill is doing various different things in different sections. And we had an in a few sections which were related to provider bargaining groups that can bargain with different state entities. And we also have an interest in the sections of the bill on what's being called outsourced medical services, because some of our members are involved at providing such services, not to hospitals, but not employed by hospitals.

[Jeff Farkas (Vermont Medical Society)]: On the provider bargaining group sections, I think we are pretty close to, in concept we are in agreement with the Green Mountain Care Board rather than eliminating them altogether, which is what the bill has introduced, proposed to do, is to narrow it to excluding from the topics that can be bargained on reference based pricing, because the board is establishing other mechanisms to get input from stakeholders on how to set those prices. We were comfortable with the narrow exclusion saying they can still exist, but they wouldn't have authority to bargain with the Green Mountain Care Board on reference based pricing. I have not seen We're working on language. I haven't, we haven't sort of finally put the bow on the language, but I think we're close on those sections. Okay, that's really helpful. Yes, feeling good about that. And then on the sections around outsourced medical services are, you know, fully in support of transparency and making sure everyone knows what is being spent on those contracts. Our concern is just making sure that there aren't additional, or enough, so many burdens put on those entities to work with hospitals, and it basically becomes impossible to even offer those services. So for example, the bill was introduced that the hospital would have to bill for all of those services, but those are actually independent contractors, and for at least the example that you heard testimony from, you know, they're their own company providing emergency medical services, they do their own billing. So we're still in conversation, and the hospital association is part of these conversations with the board in terms of what it's, you know, what will accomplish the goal of transparency but not sort of make it so burdensome that it is impossible to offer those services.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Right, so we went through, for a couple sessions we've been going through transparency of contracts with insurers. So this is a similar question of transparency and having, ensuring that those contracts are available for review at least at the board level. So more to come. More to conversations that will be. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. That's all. That's great. Thank you. We're gonna be putting S-one 190 up for some final testimony and markup, so that'll come maybe next week sometime. I think later in the week next week. There's been some concern about whether or not those outsourced services are paying the provider tax. I don't know if there's a bill floating around the building. It's in here. But now it's not in here, but we'll have you look at it. We'll have some testimony on that. That's part of it. Because that's the concern. We've already got federal limits, if those, the more things to get sourced out, if they aren't paying, then Medicaid is going to be very difficult. The hospital association, I think, has more information about that. My understanding is they would be paying corporate income tax because they're a corporate entity to the state, but I don't know that that goes through the the provider chat the channel. It doesn't go through the provider. No. Just no. That's a it's a lot of discussion. Yeah. Yeah. So but thank you. Thank you. Well, I'd love to have a great Well, They are selling service here so they would get caught up in a single K? Good. Thank you. Good. You know what? We take one step forward and two steps back. That'd be great. So we are now shifting away from up here. And we're moving on slowly to two zero six, which is early childhood. Did that slowly enough to clear it. Oh my god. Thank you so much. Morning. Good morning. So I don't know where she'll be. Trying to get a DRAC 1.2. I don't know. There. 7 0.2. Okay. Just so the committee knows, Legion Council has been working really hard on this, reaching out to various people and trying to put the language together that would resolve some of the issues that we've been talking about it here. Was thinking yesterday, I think it was yesterday, we had Northern Lights CCB in and trying to sort out the other pathway for people who have experience among other things, and working with OPR and others. Really appreciate the work that you're doing on this building. Thanks. I don't have to say it on the floor. There we go. Do we have to? Always thanking the Ledge Council. Thanking the committee, because that's where the word gets.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Can you make that Office of Ledge and City Council? Let me share my screen. So this is draft 1.2, have an amendment on the early childcare educator bill. There are some changes in yellow, and they were taken from some of the language that OPR presented to the committee. So, it's not

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: What's the agenda?

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: It's not the totality of what they introduced, but the pieces I was asked to put in.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Let's see here. You're about five or six pages. I know, there we go. There's a number, yes.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Have added a subdivision one. So this section used to say variances transitional license. This now has two variances. So, I've put paragraphs that had been A and B into A one and two, and this is all about the eight year transitional license process for ACEs two and three. The new language is in B, so this is a second path, a second variance. In addition to the transitional license available pursuant to subsection A of this section, so the language that we've already been over, the board shall issue, that should be Ann,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: say it right now,

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Ann, early childhood educator two license for individuals who have completed the eligibility requirements set forth in 60 two-21A and B. So, A are the education requirements, D is the exam, an exam is required, and completed one of the following. So, either 21 college credits in the core early childhood education competency areas, as identified by the board and rule, or prior experiential learning that is assessed by an appropriately accredited institution of higher learning to be the equivalent of 21 college credits in the core early childhood education competency areas identified by the board and enrolled. This creates a of a second variance pathway, and then we have this language about the 21 credits and core competencies or experience that is equivalent of 21 college credits and core competency. So that language is new. And we also have another, oh, this is line 15. The title of the other section was changed,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: so this is just updated to be

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: reflective of that. And then section five is

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: the

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: report on or before 11/01/2031. The Office of Professional Regulation shall submit a report to the House Committees on Government Operations and Military Affairs and on Human Services, and to the Senate Committees on Government Operations and on Health and Welfare regarding implementation of the new chapter on early childhood education licensure, including the number of licensees by license type, the state resources necessary to implement the chapter, the number and nature of any complaints or enforcement actions against the licensee, the qualifications required for each license type, and any other issues the office deems appropriate. We've renumbered the remaining sections.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: That's it. Okay. So do you wanna go back and look at the sign language again? Are you comfortable with it? I know we did hear from the YMCA about one person who was interested in being grandmothered or at least having some pathway. Did you wanna comment on this fine bridge with that? Sure, John. The record, join for Chittenden's strategy in circumstantial law. I think this is a great step for that person in particular and others. I know that they haven't had a chance to review the language yet, so if you have any other comments to provide. The only other piece that we've sort of been contemplating and haven't been able to manage as part time workers, because I know sometimes there's a patchwork,

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: and so I don't know

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: how that's contemplated in this,

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: but again, that's something that may be

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: we can do some more thinking on that. Yeah. If there's any, you know, I guess What we don't know is what scholarship funding could be available, which would relieve them of time so that part time work could be part time work and education could be the other part of it. I don't know. It's a good question. I think let's try and resolve the full time issue. And as long as there's some support here for the folks you've been representing, that you're the ones who've been speaking to this, we could go ahead. All right, so that section on variances looks like a good place to go. Go back to that? Well, I mean, I think we're sound good with it. Okay. And then the thing that we haven't resolved in here is money. My suggestion because, and that's going to go down the hall, so you have money and time to go through the bill now, go back again through the bill and we'll ask our questions as we go take a bit of time doesn't have to be too foot level but okay Maybe twenty seconds would be good.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Okay. As a reminder, section one is the list of all the professions that OKR regulates for early childhood educators is being added to that list. Section two creates the new chapter for early childhood educators who are in programs that are regulated by the CDD. And this, for the section two, is setting up sort of the middle of the chapter that will ultimately be created, which is the creation of the board, so that the board is up and running before the program itself takes place. So, with the creation of the board, the membership of the board in subsection B. Subsection C and D, type of how vacancies are filled, and mentioned that boards cannot be, board members can only serve two consecutive terms, which equals ten years. Then we have the board procedures, that annually the board is electing a chair and a vice chair and a secretary. Meetings are warned in accordance with open meeting law. Majority of the members constitute a quorum and business is transacted by a majority vote of those present in voting. Duties of the board. It's responsible for adopting rules necessary to perform its duties in accordance with the chapter, including activities that must be completed by an applicant in order to fulfill the educational experiential requirements established by the chapter. The board is required to provide general information to applicants for licensures, early childhood educators, explain appeal procedures to licensees and applicants, and complaint procedures to the public, and responsible for administrative and legal services. They shall use the administrative and legal services of OPR.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: I'm looking at the, no person on board shall have a direct financial interest or no conflict, if we flag that. I'm looking at the membership. Oh, yeah. Okay,

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: so we'll come back up here. In terms of the membership, we have two members of the public, two of each of

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: the

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: ECD categories, and a family childcare provider, all Vermont residents, all individuals, educators who are in active practice in Vermont for not less than the previous three years, and they're in active practice while they're serving on the board. So the language you're speaking about, Republic members shall be individuals who have no financial interests personally or through a spouse, parent, child, or sibling, and the activities are regulated under this chapter. So, that would mean if you're a public board member and your, let's say, spouse operates a regulated childcare facility, you can serve on the board that's overseeing licensure regulation.

[Unidentified committee member]: So just to clarify, if you're a parent with a child in a nursing facility, would that be considered having a, a interest because you're paying for the service?

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: I I certainly don't think that's what was intended.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Let me take that by look. Mhmm. Should be individuals who have no financial interest, child, parent, child, or sibling. So But that's And I I think great. Financial centers, if your child owns a center Yep. Yep. That's a whole different dynamic than if your child goes to a center.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: It doesn't seem like those languages directed at the consumer.

[Unidentified committee member]: I wanna be sure because I would see a parent being a good one to serve one of them.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Yeah, absolutely. Usually, you would want one. Oh,

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: it says it right here. Sorry. Other than a consumer.

[Unidentified committee member]: So, we know private equity firms are buying childcare centers and childcare facilities and stuff. I'm just wondering how It just seems like this is gonna be hard regulate because private equity is so

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: I am remembering when you did a lot of your work on the Child Care Bill a couple years ago, there was a section that I think made it into the final version of the bill that had disclosure of ownership. I'd have to find that language to Maybe it's on the wall, but we could,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: we'll back out with that wall.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Yeah, I could pull that up. I need to remind myself exactly what's in it. Okay,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: this is good. Going. That was, but that's good to clarify for us what we're doing here.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Go ahead. Okay, so we can flag that and when I'm done I can pull that up quickly. Should get it. We were looking at the powers of the board and then we're at the top of page four. This is section three, We're amending the chapter that was just created to regulate early childhood educators and this is happening at a different time. That's why it's in a different section. So, you set up the board first, then after the board has been set up and has adopted its rules to regulate the program, then the program itself goes into effect. So, these pieces go into effect at a later date. So, we have our definition section, including board, early childhood educator, and then the specific definitions of PCE one, two, and three, and a family childcare provider.

[Unidentified committee member]: Go ahead. Didn't we have maybe this is not the right time, but we had a small discussion about whether the third jab in Morley was required, and he brought that.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: And then OPR, we did have testimony following that. That it would support it.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: We have definitions of guidance and supervision because those two terms are used in the definitions of ECE one, two, and three. And then program means a program or facility approved by DCF's Child Development Division as licensed or registered family childcare home or licensed center based child care and preschool program. Then we have a list of provisions that an individual cannot hold themselves out as an ECE in the state unless the individual is licensed under the chapter or that they're exempt from this chapter. And then in B, an individual can't use a connection with their name, any letters, words, or insignia indicating that they're an early childhood educator unless licensed in this chapter or exempt. And then here we have who is exempt. Okay. And A, the provisions of this chapter shall not apply to the following persons acting within the scope of their respective professional practices. So this does not apply to a teacher who's licensed under Title 16, the education title, by AOE if they have endorsements in early childhood education, early childhood specialty education, or elementary education. So, teachers of those endorsements are exempt from this chapter. Also exempt, an individual who provides care in after school childcare program regulated by CDD or any other childcare program that is exempt from CDD regulation. And so, B, this chapter shall not be construed to alter or amend the requirements of publicly funded pre k, that's the ten hours of universal pre k. And C, this chapter shall not be construed to limit or restrict in any manner the right of a practitioner of another profession or occupation for carrying out in the usual manner any of the functions of that profession. We're having a placeholder here for subchapter two, the board, because we've already seen that language and it's not changing. And then subchapter three are the licensure requirements. 6221 are the eligibility qualifications. So,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: board development, is session long. And then it will go under? No, no. Tell me Yeah, about

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: okay. Sorry. So, the board is gonna, will be codified. Yes. So, it will appear as a chapter in the green books. The only thing in that chapter will be the board And for two then, right now, if you were to pass this, you'd be enacting also language that will fill in the rest of the chapter, but that won't show up in the green books for two years. Okay. So, that would have the effect of the board being set up, adopting rules, then once that piece is in

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: place, then the rest of the language will start to take effect. So would it say creation of board or will it just say board?

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: It will have all the language in section two. But, so I'm looking at

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: sub chapter two where it says Yep. Sixty two eleven. This is so

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: it won't have sub chapters. Okay. And when it's initially enacted, will it just jump right into six thousand two eleven. And

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: then But it will be creation of board.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Yep. Everything in section two will fall under that. And then in section three, which is happening two years later, then we start plugging things into sub chapters. Okay. Okay.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: And I just wanna double check something before I yeah. Okay, so this is

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: the eligibility and qualifications. And if you remember when we went through the new variants language, it said for individuals who meet the qualifications of 62, 21 A and D. So I just wanted to point that out now that they're here, what are in A and D. So this is for a person who has attained the age of majority, achieved a high school diploma, a GED, or an approved equivalent credential, and completed field expertise, has completed field experience in early childhood education,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: required by role.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Sorry, my eyes are having a hard time looking

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: at your You, Dee? No, I'm good, I'm good. I got tissues back here with you. I'm good, okay.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: So that is A, so that is a requirement for the variants, the new variants that you just looked at. One of

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: two requirements.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: In subsection B, this outlines educational requirements for all the license types or experiential. So one is ECE one, and they are to have a certificate from an approved credential program in early childhood education requiring a minimum of one hundred and twenty hours of training and instruction. The ECE two is to have an associate's degree in a program of early childhood education or a related field requiring a minimum of 60 college credits or any unrelated field and a minimum of 21 approved college credits in the core early childhood education competency areas identified in rule. EC3 is a bachelor's degree from an approved program in early childhood education or related field for a minimum of 120 college credits, or any unrelated field in a minimum of 21 approved college credits in core early childhood education competency areas as identified by rule. Then we have the family childcare provider is qualified for a license if authorized by the Child Development Division to operate a family childcare home that is in good standing with the division as of 01/01/2029, and then the board shall not accept those applications for a family childcare provider after 01/01/1929. So folks who are currently operating family childcare home can get a license if they're operating as 01/01/1929 under this category, but afterwards, they would have to fit in and say, BCD12, or 3 for a license. And

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: there's a separate pathway for them. Got it. Thank you.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: What if I'm just babysitting my neighbor's kids after sleeping? If you're not a regulated childcare development, but if you're not regulated by

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: the childcare development division, then what if I was babysitting for five and then there's kids after school.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Then if you're it depends how many families. So if that's the regular that's the home childcare provider,

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: and it's my kids' two other families. Two other families. Okay. But after date's certain,

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: nobody can babysit. It depends if they're a regulated provider by CDD or not.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: If you're just babysitting Could I be an unregulated provider? Yeah.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: If you're watching your children and and two children from two other families, then that is not regulated by CDC.

[Unidentified committee member]: So it's considered the family. She needs to to be regulated. Right.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: At least to be safe.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Yeah. Approved educational program may offer college credit based upon an assessment of the individual's competencies acquired through experience working in the profession. And then D, so the variance also references D, has to be met. Applicants shall pass any examination that may be

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: required, but will. So this

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: doesn't tell us that there will be an exam, but it gives flexibility that OPR or the board really could have an exam. And if so, somebody who is trying to receive any C2 through the second variance pass would need to pass that. License renewal. So the renewal process is every two years upon application of a fee. Failure to comply with the provision of this section shall result in suspension of the license beginning on the expiration date of the license. The license that has lapsed shall be reinstated upon payment of the fee and a late renewal penalty, except a family childcare provider license shall now be renewed after a lapse of more than two years. So if a family childcare home provider stops working in the field for two years, they would have

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: to come back as an ECE one, two,

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: or three. And that sort of tracks with the fact that their license type is only available as of until January. So this wouldn't be an ongoing license type anyway. So if somebody is a family childcare provider as of 01/01/1929, they get the family childcare home provider license type, and then they work for two years, and then they stop working in family childcare for three years. That they could no longer come back under the same license type because more than two years have lapsed and they would have

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: to come back as an EC1 to work, right?

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Just like somebody starting in the field at that point after 01/01/2029 would have

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: to come in as an ECD one, two, or three.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: That makes sense? Yep. Okay. This directs the board to adopt the rules necessary for the protection of the public to assure the board that an applicant whose license has lasted for more than five years is professionally qualified before reinstatement may occur and conditions imposed under the section shall be in addition to the requirements of subsection A. So this would apply, this five years of elapse would apply to the ECE one, two, or three. In subsection C, in addition to the provisions of A, an applicant for renewal shall have satisfactorily completed continuing education as required by the board, And the board may require by rule not more than twenty four hours of approved continuing education. Next, have your fees section.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: So there are different fees for the different licensure types. Yeah. So finance is gonna look at this. Okay. Our our comment has been that they seem live. Okay. So we'll send that comment to finance. I don't know who's down there in that room or maybe don't get us. Maybe. Could you send it to me?

[Unidentified committee member]: I'm running that. Yeah, send it over.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Okay, so next we have a section on unprofessional conduct. That means conduct prohibited by Title III 129, applies to all professions, or by other statutes relating to early childhood education, whether that conduct is by a licensee applicant or proposed applicant, somebody who will later become an applicant. Conduct that results in somebody being placed on the child protection registry, or conduct that is not in accordance with the professional standards and competencies of the early childhood educators, for early childhood educators that's published by NACI. And we get to our variance language. You've already looked at A. B is your new language that creates a second variance path. Again, this is for the ECE two license, and this is for individuals who have a high school diploma or the equivalent, have passed any required exam, and meet one of these following paths. I should flag, and I told you that earlier, that this section, both variants pathways, is repealed at sunsets after a certain date. So this is not ongoing language. We already knew for the first variance that it was only available for up to eight years.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Right, so

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: that's a

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: suggestion made yesterday. So

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: this would also be eight years. Okay. Then we have on page 13, all of the disclosures to post all the different information so that a family, assuming childcare services, would know where to make a complaint, whether it's to CBD or AOE or OPR. Here is your repeal of that variance language we were just looking at, 07/01/2036, that's both variance paths. And then you have this new report that we just looked at. We haven't talked about the appropriation language. And then you have your effective dates. We've already talked about this, but So the effective date section, the section that adds early child care educators, the board, the report, and the appropriation. Those all take effect July '26. What takes effect on July '28 are the section three, which is when we filled in the chapter with everything else besides just the board, all the other regulations and eligibility requirements and licensing fees, that all gets filled in on July '28, and section four is the repeal of the variance, the transregional. Wait, you should call that

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: variance. So just on an eight year period.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Yeah. The section takes effect, but the section itself says that language is repealed 07/01/1936.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: So the language Oh, thirty six.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: Yeah. Where's the registration? Right here.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Oh, it's up above. So, you're saying? Oh, it's in the repeal section on four. Yes.

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: So, we have some really effective dates. So, might I know, it's a little bit confusing. So the effective date of section four is 07/01/1928. We got it. But on that date, it says this will be repealed on 2036. So the repeal isn't happening till 2036, even though the section is effective earlier than that. I'm alive to

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: see it. That's good. All right. Okay, this is helpful. Questions? Okay. Okay, committee. The bill looks pretty well complete. So why don't we do this? Do we you're not here

[Unidentified committee member]: on Tuesday?

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: I can't make I think I I know. But if you're just looking to go, I'm there are schedules for two different times on Tuesday. So we could probably fit it into one I of would really, now that I'm looking at this, like to change this to variance, if that would be okay. Thank you. Okay. I will do that. So you'll have a draft 2.1, but it won't be significantly different on this. Do have anything

[Sen. John Morley III (Member)]: else? Chair?

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: John Morley. John Morley. John Morley. Aloha. Oh, welcome. To see Morley.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member)]: Oh, thank you. Wow.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Not better. Okay. I hope we each have one of those in your bag. No. No worries, though. That's kind. That's good. Senator Morley, please comment. Can you see the show?

[Sen. John Morley III (Member)]: Yeah. I can. I can, actually. And I've heard a lot. I've got pictures from back home, and I'm glad I'm here right now. So this bill's getting close to being voted on, it feels like to me. I think I mentioned one time during testimony that I there's actual cost to this. I know it's listed out in there for OPR and things like that. But has JFO or has senator Cummings and senate finance discussed what this bill actually is going to cost?

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: So the question you're asking is a good one. First, I'll go to Senate Finance and Appropriations. So the bill by rule 31 will be referred directly to finance. They will look at the fees, which technically you're supposed to cover the cost. Right. So should cover the cost of the program as ongoing and in the bill. Secondly, probably there automatically go to appropriations for a number of sections including the board and paying the board for any work per diem. And then thirdly, I will ask joint fiscal for a fiscal note. At this point, I don't believe that there is a fiscal note associated with it. Having said that, there is work that we have heard about from the child development division what they are going to have to do to accomplish the goals in the bill. So the question you've asked is a very legitimate one. We are not ignoring it. Then we will try to get a fiscal note on it if that's possible from Nolan. If it's not possible, it will move on to our two money committees. Is the word Is the word per per diem?

[Office of Legislative Counsel (staff attorney, name not stated)]: It's not there. I didn't think I heard it.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: I don't know that it is gonna automatically It may not go automatically to approach, but I'll with Yeah. It's a good thing. I have a feeling that if you have to cover the costs with the fees, the fees will end up being prohibited to the salaries that we're paying the people that need to be This is one of the problems with child care. Yes. We don't have the cost. Well, so I'm glad you I'm glad you stopped by and and asked the question because it is an underlying concern about the bill. And I'll try to get some information. Today's Thursday. I'll talk with Nolan, and we'll try to get some information by Tuesday. We will put it up for a vote now and see where we go.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member)]: Okay. Well, thank you. And I I've been participating in all the meetings. I I wanna thank Calista for helping me.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Thank you. Okay. Okay. So we're glad you're here. I don't what time is it? Is it there?

[Sen. John Morley III (Member)]: 06:51 here right now.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay. Well, we're we're absolutely actually at the end of the meeting. So thank you.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member)]: Oh, I'm aware. I it starts at four for me and ends at seven every morning.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: My So long ago.

[Unidentified committee member]: When are you coming back? Soon.

[Sen. John Morley III (Member)]: I'll be back Sunday.

[Sen. Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Alright. Okay. Okay. Alright. So we're gonna go offline. Okay. And, hopefully, you'll have some time to recover. Oh,