Meetings
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[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Okay, so this is Senate Health and Welfare, we're back and we're looking at two bills with the sponsor, Senator Ruth's party, and we're gonna look at two ten first and then after that if you could go to one twelve, that would be great.
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: Perfect. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, committee, for having me. I'm Senator Ruth Hardy from the Addison District, and I'm here to talk about two bills, s two ten, which is a bill about autopsy reports, and it would enable the Probate Division of the Superior Court to rule on a petition for access to an autopsy report. I introduced this bill after talking with a constituent who I definitely think you should hear from if you move forward with this bill, which I hope you do, and she can tell you her story as much as she feels comfortable. But she had some very tragic situations happen. A situation happened in her family that resulted in the death of her daughter, her adult daughter. And she was first in line to receive the autopsy report from her daughter's death. And then previously sort of the father of the children of her daughter who had been out of the picture came back into the picture, proved his paternity. He hadn't been in the lives of the children. He proved his paternity, and then he moved up the line to get the autopsy reports and wouldn't let the mother of the daughter of the woman who died get the autopsy report. There's a there's a hierarchy, and Katie can explain this much better than me, but there's a hierarchy of who gets autopsy They are protected by federal HIPAA laws, the health privacy laws, and so she was not able to receive the autopsy report. And obviously, everything was leather and it was very traumatic for her. And there are a lot of other factors, it's not my story to tell, so I don't want to divulge anything. But that's helpful. But that's the sort of general background. She was not able to get access to the autopsy report and the Department of Health, which is the department that oversees the medical examiner and provision of autopsy reports couldn't give it to her. And there was obviously tension in the family and she wasn't able to access it. So this wouldn't automatically give autopsy reports out to people, but it would create a process by which someone could petition the probate court to get an autopsy report. Katie worked really hard with the Department of Health to make sure this is compliant with HIPAA and works with their regulations. Obviously, you should hear from them to make sure that they agree with that, But that was the goal is to make sure it's compliant with the federal HIPAA regulations and also the process, but also just gives Vermonters an access to an autopsy report if they're in an unfortunate and sad situation like my constituent is in. So, would be a petition to the court and the court could deny it. If someone was trying to get access to an autopsy report for various reasons or inappropriate reasons, the court could say no. But this would give people who are trying for legitimate reasons of an allegation. So that is s two ten. Good. I mean,
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: it's been helpful. That gives us the reason one of the things that we're trying to do is sort out for the bills is why are we why are they being introduced?
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And without the story, it doesn't necessarily
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: be And if you don't mind, contact your constituent and see if she is available or would like to testify. She absolutely would like to testify,
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: so I will connect her to your committee assistant, AU, and you can she would love to come in. Thank you very much. So, S112, another bill that unfortunately deals
[Katie McFinnows (Legislative Counsel)]: with death. We'll get Tucker in another day. Yeah.
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: I guess it was an unintentional theme. But this one I actually introduced last year, and this has to do with the gender identity of an individual on their death certificate. In Vermont, we've done a lot of work to make sure that all of our official legal documents allow individuals to have their preferred and actual gender identity listed. So for driver's licenses, for birth certificates, for marriage licenses, for all those other legal documents. The one that we haven't dealt with sufficiently is death certificates. And it's hard for somebody to attest to their own gender identity when they're dead.
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: This is That's So funny, Senator. Yeah.
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: I mean, it's it's But
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: it is ironic and paradoxical.
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: So, trying to figure out how we do this is hard. So, this is Tucker and I worked to try to figure this out, and this also came at the request of multiple constituents in Vermonters to make sure that when someone dies, they that they're the last document that documents their life and then their death has the gender their own their gender identity on it as they lived and wanted and and were in their life. So this would create a process for if somebody's gender identity is incorrect on their birth on their death certificate, it could be rectified. And again, it's a process with the Department of Health and creates sort of the it uses appropriate evidence and to ensure that someone's gender identity is verified. It could just be somebody coming in and saying, no, I wanna change this the gender identity on somebody else's death certificate. There would be a process for doing so and documents that were accepted as prima facie evidence, and that should be something that Tucker explains to you. There's a reason why that's specifically called out in the bill. And then the other thing that I included is procedures for an individual to file a pre designation of their gender identity. And this is kind of like when you file, when you talk about, you know, when I die, or when I'm sick at the end of my life, these are the things I want to have happen there, like living wills, and there's another technical term that I'm afraid of. Advanced directives. And this could be part of somebody's advanced directive just to make sure that it's clear. So and then there's a general assembly intent to make sure that the Department of Health understands what we're trying to do here. And Tucker did work with the department on drafting this bill as well to make sure that it fit with their procedures. And there is, I think, a house companion bill that might actually be in gov ops, but I'm not sure what the status is. Tucker might know because it's Well, you
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: know, I think that might have been introduced last year as well. So we'll I'll I'll connect with with the house.
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: Yeah. And if you need witnesses for this, I can certainly help you. That would be good. Bias and witnesses as well. Good. And these also could, I don't know, they're both similar topics. They could be combined if you wanted to, probably, One bill out of two. We'd like to do that. Yeah. So that's, Those are the two bills, and I thank you for considering them and having me in. And I will send you some witness information and let me know, or yes, and let me know
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: if you need anything else. Okay. Questions for Senator Morley? No, we're good. Brought us some great Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you for good news. Yeah. And, yeah. All right. We'll hear from Katie, on 02:10. I'll have to talk to her another time when we pick up.
[Senator Ruth Hardy]: Sounds good. Thank you. You. Talk about fishing access.
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Awesome. Oh, goody.
[Katie McFinnows (Legislative Counsel)]: That's good.
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Great. Also, if you need to put your kayak in there. Okay. Yeah. Oh, your ice boat. Is there not a lot of ice boating this year? Yeah. Oh, the temperature's been so moving out. S210.
[Katie McFinnows (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. Katie McFinnows, Legislative Council. So, this is amending an existing section that addresses autopsies. There's nothing specific in Vermont statute that says this is who the autopsy report is going to be released to, so instead, using HIPAA, the health department has relied on sort of the list for probate cases to determine who is the appropriate person to get the autopsy report. So what this language does, A sort of says when an autopsy happens. I've created a new subsection B here. So the first subdivision B1 is the purpose is to encompass existing law with regard to HIPAA as to who can get the autopsy report. So it's not meant to be a drastic change. It's sort of meant to codify the status quo, which is that the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner shall disclose the decedent's autopsy report to the decedent's personal representative in compliance with HIPAA and its associated regulations, including the court appointed executor administer of
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: the estate. Not to interrupt slow here, but it occurred to me that HIPAA is an act for them. Oh yes. And that perhaps we could explain what So that
[Katie McFinnows (Legislative Counsel)]: we have it online through Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. It governs privacy protections and it extends for a certain number of years after a person's death. So an autopsy report would be protected health information under HIPAA, which is why receipt of the report is governed under HIPAA. So again, this first subdivision is intended to just refer back to HIPAA and say, you can disclose the autopsy report in compliance with HIPAA. There is language in HIPAA that if a state decides to enact a law that allows a piece of protected health information to be authorized for disclosure using a court process, that that is acceptable under HIPAA. So that's what this subsection two does, is it says that there is the creation of this court process whereby if the court finds it's appropriate for this protected piece of health information to be shared, it may be. So an individual who is not authorized to receive the autopsy report from Subdivision 1, that person can petition the probate division of the Superior Court for a copy of the report, of the autopsy report. The petition is to contain an affidavit attesting to the petitioner's relationship to the decedent and the reason the petitioner is seeking the autopsy report. The petitioner shall notify the office of the chief medical examiner five business days after filing that petition with the court. And if the Superior Court finds that the petitioner has demonstrated a legitimate reason for the petitioner to obtain the autopsy report, as shall order the office of the chief medical examiner to provide a copy to the petitioner. So I'll just bring your attention to the phrase legitimate reason. So that is It's not a defined term for the court to follow. So, the court, it's giving a lot of discretion to the court to determine what is legitimate. So, that is sort of a policy decision to have less parameters for the court, and kind of keeping it a little bit open so the court has, like I said, discretion as to what is an appropriate reason and who is an appropriate person
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: to receive the autopsy report. So you reached out to the DOH on this? Yes. Did you reach out to Terry Coursons or John's Zomane? Oh, that's a good reason to have Terry Coursons come in, isn't it?
[Katie McFinnows (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. That would be good. Yeah. I I think that you're definitely gonna wanna hear Yeah. From somebody who can speak towards whether that is a a usable standard, the legitimate reason. Oh, there you go.
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Good. Alright, good. Thank you. That's good help. And your thoughts about who you should have in would be helpful. I'm thinking it will go up to the court administrator. I'm sure you'd like to hear from the health department. Oh yeah.
[Katie McFinnows (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah, and I'm sure you'll need to hear from the courts.
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's it. That's
[Katie McFinnows (Legislative Counsel)]: it. We've made it to the end of our time together this morning. You are.
[Senator Virginia "Ginny" Lyons (Chair)]: All very patient. Questions for Katie. No. But and I think while you were out, we had we we were just here, all of us thinking about what we need for the child care bill. It's a pretty complex bill so we have to sort through that and see who we need to get in. Okay. And then Tucker Anderson will have to get in on 112 and see when that goes. Okay. All right, thank you. So we are finished for the day and the week and thank you all. It's been a busy week. We're just getting started. So we are gonna adjourn and go off