Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Oh, it's good. Welcome back to the Senate Committee on Government Operations Committee meeting of Wednesday, 05/13/2026. Up next for our consideration is the Panton Charter. I hesitate to use the bill number because we technically don't have possession of this yet. The Rules Committee did meet earlier today and released the bill, but it has to go through the procedural procedure. So it'll be on notice tomorrow. The process is in the process. I'm sorry. We'll have it in the committee probably by Friday, but we could still make testimony enough. Just can't.

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: And then we're done both on

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: it with Enterprise. Yes. You must be a chair as well.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. Let's hear about it and we'll vote on it.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So I know representative Vyhovsky, who sponsored a bill, is probably going to need to exit stage left quickly if there's a roll call. So Matt, why don't you join us at the table and Yes. Let us know what this is all about and why it's necessary to stop.

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: No. Thank you very much, committee. Thank you very much, mister chair.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: For the record, representative Beth Byron, chair of House of

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: Public Operations Military Affairs, lead sponsor of this charter proposal, and it is putting into place recall provisions for select board members. There is a good, in my opinion, number of sort of like safeguards and checks on the process that are built in. The I don't wanna steal too much thunder from the representative who can't do district row and or council, but a lot of thought and consideration went into this structure. It does mirror other structures like this and within other charters, so it is not a reinvention of Saint Weald. But there was a series of events event in the past that resulted in a desire for the town to have this provision in place.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Senator White, did you have a question?

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Well, it seems that's the only provision in the charter.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Okay. Is it?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yep. Senator White.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Yeah. I just want to say I fully support the Camden Charter change. I think it's smart. We have talked about including a provision like this in our own charter, and I'm wondering was there an incident or something that sparked this, or is this proactive?

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: No. This is reactive. We do a scenario within the community that I feel like is better spoken to by mister Rutland. I

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Well, I'm

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: It was more lived on the municipal level than by myself as a state representative from the district and the town. Don't reside in Penn. I reside in the town of my bus at

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: it. So Oh, yeah. So

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: but I definitely understood the problem. I was tuned into it while it was occurring. And then during the process, we were they were navigating the structure of

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: the license. Regards.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: This is one of the reasons we need to fix and find our ethics commissioner. Well, I mean, a lot of these issues are local municipal issues. And the the you know, just I'm just gonna leave it right there.

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: If I may take one more personal preference. Sure. Yeah, we did have both positions in our budget memo. And

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: we have one. I don't know.

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: But hey, that's a different bill.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: A different

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: yeah. A different one.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: It's in in this It's bill.

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: But, yes, that's another conversation for another vehicle, but it is relevant to some of these conversations in and around municipal governance and oversight.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Any other questions for a rep by law on that?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: None, but maybe not appropriate for this discussion.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay, thank you very much, Matt.

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: No, thank you all very much, and I am gonna go back upstairs through this debate on Prop four, because we are roll calling Yep. Sooner than Thank you all. Thank you for your questions. Kyle?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Oh, and Tanton does run along the way. Right?

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: Yes. It's got a lot of coastline. They actually referred to it as a gold one. Yes. Yeah. So yeah. We have a we have a lot of lakefront gardens here.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: It's the Gold Coast of Addison County.

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: Even though the $25,000,000 properties in Paris were

[Jonathan Williams (Director of Public Policy & Advocacy, VLCT)]: so bad, it will be.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Thank you. So, Tim, if you want to join us at the table, and then I'll invite Mr. Rutland to join us virtually. This is Kyle Rowe, who was both the town clerk and treasurer from Hampton.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Don't worry, Tim. You're good.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And he can provide us hopefully with a little bit of a you also each have testimony from him. I'm not taking any nods. Yes. We can. Yes. Okay. Great.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I have to turn the page to see who it's from. It's from Zach Weaver.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I thought that was also from Mr. Rutland. Anyway, welcome in, Mr. Rowe, Kyle, and if you'd let us know what brought about this request for a charter change.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Sure, thank you very much members of the committee for the record. My name is Kyle Rowe, town clerk and treasurer of the town of Panton, Vermont. Thank you very much for the opportunity to provide some testimony on this issue. You have included the written testimony is from the chair of our select board who couldn't be present for the house government operations committee consideration of this, and so provided in writing this testimony, which I also thought was relevant for your consideration. So I submitted that this morning. As is explained in the written testimony, you know, the town let me provide the context and then you'll understand why it makes sense. Basically, the town in 2024 underwent a reappraisal, the average home increase was 56%. At the same time, the town increased its budget by approximately 30%. Well, the combination of those two things in a single year resulted in people's tax bills increasing between 4050%. There was also the potential proposal of largest solar field in Vermont being developed in Panton, which had significant opposition amongst the town. So the combination of those two things, hugely increased tax bill and the perceived inaction of the select board on opposing the town's will in this regards to the solar field made a not a majority, but a plurality of the voters come out and be quite upset with the select board who they felt weren't dealing with this particular issue. The unfortunate reality is that really it was after the Select Board had made their statement and in fact lowered the budget for the next year, it really was a very vocal minority that continued to press this issue. And in the of '20 excuse me, the 2024 into the 2025, a charter petition for the amendment of the town charter was presented to to the town clerk's office. However, the it was it was a provision to allow for the recall election of elected officials. However, it was delivered it was delivered untimely. It did not comply with the statutory time necessary to allow for the hearings and such and things like that. Additionally, at the same time, it was proposed by members of the community to increase the size of the select board from three members to five members. The select board considered both of these issues, decided to place the issue of the size of the Select Board increase on the regular town meeting ballot in March 2025, and promised that if the new members were, if the Select Board was expanded in size, the member, the new members would need to be elected at a special town meeting held some point subsequent to that. In addition, in an effort to kind of placate some of the folks who had, you know, less than legitimate or perhaps arguably legitimate concerns about the select board, the select board decided to include a recall to provision charter amendment as well at that special town meeting to be held. However, they felt that the necessary safeguards against a elected official being recalled with fewer votes than elected them was a common sense provision that should be installed into the Charter Amendment. And so when they rewrote and when they wrote this Charter Amendment for consideration by the electorate, they included that language in the Charter amendment, which you'll see in the bill. The both the amendment passed and the select board size increase passed, and the select board is now five members, and the charter amendment is now in your hands at the legislature having made its way through the house. So I hope that provides some context. You know, they felt that it while you know, responsibility of elected officials to remain under the, you know, in responsive to the electorate's needs, they also felt that there was a real opportunity for special town meetings, which are unfortunately less attended than regular town meeting, where usually most people are elected. And that would unfortunately create situations where a particular act being grinded could somehow lead to the removal of a person for no other reason than their particular having earned the ire of particular resident in town. So the provision that was installed in the charter amendment before you is one that was in the is in the town of Middlebury. It's in the town of Hardwick. It's also in the charter of the town of Stowe. And it's a charter provision that we felt and the select board felt was a reasonable inclusion for maintaining democratic participation by the residents, but also fairness and equity amongst those who had elected folks in the first place.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Any questions for Kyle? I just have one. You talked about a special town meeting, or you don't, but Zach Weaver does in his written testimony. When is that special town meeting scheduled for?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Well, so the the special town meeting that he refers to in the testimony happened in the 2025.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Oh, okay.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: So after after town meeting of in March, after regular Vermont town meeting day in March, a special town meeting was held in the 2025 to then send or to then elect two new representatives to the select board and also allow the town to vote on this charter provision.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: But the charter does not include the expansion of the select board. Correct?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: That's correct. The expansion of a select board is something that can be handled in statute, and in fact, was just handled by the actual vote of the electorate at the town.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: We're already allowed to do that.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: It doesn't

[Jonathan Williams (Director of Public Policy & Advocacy, VLCT)]: require a charter change.

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. It was a special provision it can increase by two for a period.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. Well, I'll have our own legal counsel give me a brusher upper on that. I didn't I thought it had to include a a charter change, but apparently, I'm way behind the times.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: You're not behind the times

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Does at anybody else have a question for Kyle? Well, yes.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So it shows that their ire at the former tax increases, value increases, town budget increases, they the ire of of of majority or at least some of the voters meant they wanted to have this ability to recall select board members. Exactly.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Sore, right, do remember.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Right.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Yeah. Large solar field as well. They they they targeted one particular select board member in particular, who then subsequently lost his seat actually at the regular election Ah. March 2025.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Certainly, ire over those three issues is what led them to wanting to be able to recall a select board member.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: That is my that is my estimation. That is the that it's anecdotal, but it is certainly something that was expressed. So yes, I mean,

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: right. Okay. Here we are. But at the time, were there three or five select board members?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: There were three.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And was it a majority vote or a unanimous vote? Or what in other words, you mentioned that it was one particular individual that seemed to be singled out. What happened to the other two? Were they reelected?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: No. It was the chair of the select board that was singled out. He happened to be just a particularly vocal advocate for the town. He'd been the chair of the select board for ten years, and he had represented the town in a number of different issues. And his that was was he was the unfortunate vocal personality in town. So I mean, you know, again, this is the goal of the select boards. What is before you for consideration is what the current select board of both three members originally and now five members agrees is a reasonable provision to both honor the will of the voters to allow for the recall of elected officials, which they think is probably a necessary, you know, is a necessary evil that sometimes we must suffer in the modern age, but also with those common sense provisions that the recall should be fair, in the sense that you shouldn't be able to be recalled by low attended special town meetings or other meetings held for those purposes. You know, none of this like I mentioned a lot of this stuff, because the contextual idea of where this came from, I think is an important part of consideration since we're not unique in this many towns. You know, I'm sure every town has their own moment in time where something like this occurs. But it's it's more to I'm here more to emphasize that we think this is a really fair provision that both honors the will of the voters and also honors the, you know, on both sides, those who want to recall and those who want to be able to elect people and see them remain in office for good cause.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Sorry. Thanks.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I guess this is fine. It's just sort of sad to have a town charter based on a negative thing. I mean, you know, it would be great if a town charter began with, how the town is set

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: up and how it's managed.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Well, no. We have a charter.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Oh, well, apologies. I thought this was the setting up of a charter.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: No. No. No. This is an amendment to our charter.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Sorry. I had not appreciated that.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: That's okay. Yeah. No. And our our town charter does in fact, it's one of the oldest in the state. It's an original one from governor Wentworth that was then changed in 2014 to allow for the appointment of a town clerk treasurer and those various and sundry things. But it is a nice town charter, and this would just be an amendment to it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So what was incorporated?

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: I'm sorry?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: You oh, it's on your are you 1751 also?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: 1761.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. Oh, I can't read that. That's Well, 1761. Got it.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Same as Yep. 1761. Yep. We were original provisions

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Incorporated in. Avenue went with

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: A mass incorporation.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: A mass incorporation.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So this what triggered it obviously was high waxy, and a slide board, the chair obviously, but this is for all federal offices. Yes. Correct. Anybody elect. Right.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Besides Not for the clerk or treasurer if they are appointed.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Correct. But I just wanna make sure you're aware.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I'm aware of that. Yep. But it's I hate witch hunts.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: You know, I'm not sure that the floor report should be Witch hunt approved. Yeah. Overly I don't know why I'm phrasing. I I'm not sure you spend a

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: lot of time on The negatives.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: The context that you've heard. You can, I say you, whoever the reporter is could bring up the fact? I would call it general dissatisfaction with, the rising of taxes, a re reappraisal, the solar potential of but I wouldn't necessarily say that the the chair for the select board got run out of town because they were. Yeah. I

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: wouldn't say that that's the case either, senators. I would say that that he he he lost a a fair and and and properly run election at the next regular opportunity, and is still an active and vocal member in the town who only wishes the town the best. Things And have really calmed down in the town since all this has happened. You know, obviously, legislation takes quite a while to work its way through Montpelier. And so, you know, if this was the same time, we might not be even having this discussion, you know, same time this year kind of thing. However, because the select board decided to continue this path, because of the the provision in there that allows for the person to be recalled only if the votes to recall them exceed the number that elected them or one third of the town's electorate to vote. So we felt that even all things considered, it's still the most fair compromise that can be done to allow for the recall of an elected official.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Did anything controversial come off at this year's town meeting?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: No, this year's town meeting was done in forty five minutes.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Oh, okay. Any other questions for Kyle? When they say cease to hold office, that means immediately? On three. Maybe we can have our lawyer. Alright. Let's

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: see. While he's looking at that, would you be kind enough, Kyle, to share with us how many people live are full time residents living in Panton?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Sure. There are 660 ish residents of Panton, of which there are 597 registered voters.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So six sixty ish?

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Yep. 500. Of which there are

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: about 500

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: And and what's your second home population? What are your

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Seasonal resident.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I think we

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: yeah.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Like many like many towns, it's it's kinda best guess, and best guess would be maybe 20% of the homes in town are seasonal.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Oh, really? That's few given the light? Wow.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Well, it's it's very hard with the current the current methodology of being able to track that. It's a difficult difficult. In

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Woodstock, we're pretty clear on it. I know that 51% of my town is second homeowners.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: How do you know?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Well, because the grand list, then they have blisters terribly good. I mean, the blisters

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: are you can I could give you the non homestead tax? Yeah, I mean, the non homestead tax rate is closer to fiftyfifty. But I mean, it's not a, it's not the same as people it's, you know, we also consider seasonal on his rentals and things like that.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay, Kyle. Thank you for your patience today. And I have a feeling we'll move this out rather quickly. And we appreciate your testimony. You're welcome to stay tuned. We're not gonna vote it up today, but in case there's other testimony that you want to weigh back in on.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: I would like that very much. And thank you again to the committee and everyone for the consideration of this bill.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Thank you for your doing double duty as clerk and treasurer.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: And emergency management coordinator and assistant zoning and representative on the Transportation Advisory Committee. Yes,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: exactly. Hence,

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: I was like, and the tack.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Thank you again.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Thank you.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So Tim, if you want to run us through the bill and then we'll have Josh come out.

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: For the record, Tim Dutland, Legislative Counsel. Let's see, so we'll start off with section one of the charter, which is kind of boilerplate introductory language formally adopting charter. So stating general assembly approves the amendment of the charter of the town of Paine. As set forth in this act, the votes of the town approved the proposed amendment on 05/15/2025. Then we turn to the section two, going on page two, where we have the substantive change. And here we get into recall provisions. So section five, titled Result of Elected Talent Officers. Any elected town officer may be removed from office subject to the following conditions and procedures. One, a written petition signed not signed by not less than 15% of the registered voters in the town seeking the removal of the town officer and requesting a vote of the town, the regular or special town meeting called for the purpose shall be filed with the select board and the town clerk at two. The petition is filed not more than six days, not less than forty seven days before the next regular town meeting. The selector shall place the question of whether the elected officer shall be removed on the morning of the next regular town meeting. Otherwise, the selector shall call a special town meeting be held within forty five days after receiving the petition to vote on whether the elected official or officer shall be removed. In either case, the recall, sorry, the recall shall be held by the Australian ballot. Three, when the petitioner when the petitioner removal is approved by majority of the voters cast at the regular or special town meeting, the town officer named in the petitions of the shall cease to hold office for creating vacancies in the, sorry, senator Walden. Was your question about the

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Immediately. Would he be, or she be immediately not holding on? After the vote?

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. And that presumes that the vote would be canvassed and certified, and at that point, it would be, the vacancy would be created.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So it would be pending the Secretary of State's regular initial procedures for

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: certifying OKS. The fourth, the officer shall be removed only if, at least if any branch of the voters in your town vote to approve the petition and its ability to elect to sit officer in the most recent election if wherein the officer was elected, or at least one third of the registered voters in the town vote, whichever is pure. We're gonna move on to subsection B2, The vacancy resulting from the recall of the officer shall be filled in the manner prescribed by the law. And c, a recall petition shall not be brought against the individual more than once within a twelve month period. Reduce section three, the effective date. Is an actual take effect on passenger.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So I just got to if someone was elected with only 150 votes out of I think Kyle said five ninety registered voters, I'm just using numbers. As long as 151 voted to recall that individual, that would satisfy the requirement?

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes, the other condition would be unless one third of the total registered vote is

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: low as

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: five fifty, that's number

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: four is what you're looking at.

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes, but yes.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I'm just trying to get a Me too, I'm trying to understand them too. And I don't know, I'm gonna ask Kyle before we leave what the vote was at the town meeting in 'twenty five, of 'twenty five. That was not a town meeting,

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: that was a depression meeting. It was a special time. Okay.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah, I'm just trying to get the math done. I obviously, well, not obviously. In a lot of cases, you don't get 100% voter turnout. So if five ninety people showed up, that's everybody in town that can vote. That rarely happens. But in fact, I can't think of it. Doesn't that? Yeah. So if only 25% of that five ninety turned out and the majority of those voted for a particular individual, I'm assuming that individual would have won, but you get one more vote than your opponent, there's only you and another opponent, that would be true. So we're not talking even a 100, it could have been 50 or 60 votes.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Well, let's find out what the vote was.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay. Maybe it's an health care call.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Powell, can you

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: share the

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Yep. So at the regular town meeting that year, the regular town meeting held 03/04/2025, the town had a 28% turnout. There were approximately a 170 voters, and that was regular town meeting.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: At the at the special town meeting held in May 2025, which dealt with the charter question, there were a 103 voters. The the voters who for the question itself, 56 voters said yes to the question to the charter, know, approving the charter, 39 said no, and there were eight blank votes. So it was approximately a seventy thirty split with 7% not voting. And that was the special town meeting in May.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: If again, I'm just doing math here. We have not. I'm trying to. 103 voters. Yes. A third of that would be 30 or 31. Right. Wow. That is a pretty but it's a third of register. Oh, register. Okay.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: A 100 yeah. A third of registered.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Sorry? Yep. No. No. Five seven. I

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. Five ninety seven. Just

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: yeah. So so that would be a 177. Okay. I think I got the math down.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Okay. So and just just again for context, so the the the most recent select board election in 2025 saw the winner of the select board seat win by 85 votes. That was, he won 85 and it was 85 to 90, to 78.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Pretty good luck. Okay. Does anyone have other questions for our counsel?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: No? Good. They are.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It's

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: straightforward. Hopefully. Josh, would you like to join us? This is Josh Hampton from the LCT. Yes, thank you. Also a

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: very similar language in ASX.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Probably fall from vision too.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I'm yes. I believe they know. It's almost exactly the same language. Arguably And came also from a similar instance where someone was mad at that person's school.

[Jonathan Williams (Director of Public Policy & Advocacy, VLCT)]: Doctor. Denver, I'm off the League of Cities and Towns. I can be brief. We're here in support of this, Charter Change Amendment. VLCT has long supported the authority of municipalities to have recall elections. It's been a member voted policy for years and years. We feel that's a way to ultimately help hold folks accountable, but we support the provisions to make sure it's not just a small minority that it's going after, that there's the provisions of the percent to petition and the provision around needing more votes to remove their officer from compared to the votes to elect is a smart provision. I think there's around 16 municipalities with recall authority right now. Several of them have a similar provision around the votes to recall need to be greater than the votes that elected that officer. We're in full support of this and have had this as a municipal policy that we support across

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: the board for years.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Can you give us a couple more? I got hardworking snow. Where are some of the other more familiar Oh, let me see if I can pull

[Jonathan Williams (Director of Public Policy & Advocacy, VLCT)]: up an email. It is quite a broad swath of municipalities. It's rural, it's urban, it's small, it's big. Addicted in there, Stowe's in there, Hardwick's in there.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: There's one more. Oh, geez. I don't wanna guess. Had it up. See if I can find it. No, it's alright. Good old name. And Kent? Gold Hardwick. That's not yet. Not yet, not yet.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: No, these are all in the works, right? No,

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: they've all been approved.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: No, Essex happened when I was still in the house.

[Jonathan Williams (Director of Public Policy & Advocacy, VLCT)]: Yeah, Essex is in place. Bennington, Brattleboro, Clovenchester, Linden, Middlebury, Springfield, St. Albans, St. Johnsbury, St. Stowe, Underhill, Woodford, Essex.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: There. Quite

[Jonathan Williams (Director of Public Policy & Advocacy, VLCT)]: a range of size and location.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay.

[Jonathan Williams (Director of Public Policy & Advocacy, VLCT)]: And you know, back to the, there was a comment around ethics commissions. You know, this is one of the things that would not work to extend the municipalities with being discussed. We very much said authority for recall elections would make that complete because if you can't hold someone accountable, even if there is the staffing and support of an ethics violation through a recall, you're not you're not really fulfilling the ultimate goals. There isn't any accountability unless you have a recall election or you wait till the next normal election.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. I've just I I think it runs a risk of intimating there was some sort of shenanigans going on, and I'm not sure if that's I think people were just legitimately upset about their tax bill, but not necessarily was there some collusion with, a power or a solar company. You know what I mean? Sure. I just didn't want that to sort of percolate out there. So I'm not sure the ethics commission

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yes. I I misunderstood.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Appreciate it.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Thank you. I just wanted to for the record. Yep. Anything for Josh? Again, we don't have possession of this yet, so technically we can't vote on it, but I'd like to assure Kyle I'm fairly certain that we will be moving this and that by the end of the session, whatever that is, that this will in fact become one of your provisions in your charter. And you have to vote on the charter? Yeah. Well, which one? Oh, on the regular town meeting? No. We have 28% turnout.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: That's what was the vote, Kyle, on the regular meeting. Oh, did they vote did they vote on this? No.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That was at the special meeting.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. That's what I thought.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Oh, okay. Town meeting was probably just We had a 100 Should we buy a new fire truck or whatever?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: We had a 103 for the special meeting. Fifty six thirty nine. Yes. And 39 now. Yeah. Good. Yep. And eight blinds or six blinds. Eight. Eight. That's what I have.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Did you want the total? No. That's good. Okay. Thank you, Kyle. Thank you very much. I'm, Chittenden.

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: Thank you very much, all.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So, that's all we have on the calendar. Again, tomorrow we will be why don't we meet here at as soon as we get off the floor. I mean, that's not 12:30. We don't have to be down there till two at the DP I said DP down in thirty two. DPS center. And I'm guessing it will take us about twenty minutes. You gotta jump on the interstate, head north for one or two. Two exits, It's Waterbury. One. If you get up in Franklin, I think it's the one before Waterbury.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: North Warton? If you're going to Wartown, just buy the former Red Hen. Bakery. Yes. Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And then you take a left. So what are another left.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: What do we what's the address? So 8845 State Street. State. State. Would you just get it when you have a moment? Yep. The address. Yep. I will. And my co pilot will navigate us. Let's hope.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We're all, invited. I wish there was time. Well, maybe there will be a well, no. I can't I was gonna say change into something more and more comfortable, but there's no time to do that problem. Just have to go from the floor. North. I'm by me. And then we're scheduled to go until four ish. If people have places they've gotta be at three or 03:30, that's fine too. Depending on the weather, we will have an opportunity to be outside with some rather large vehicle types or inside in Malaw where we can watch what they do for their work. We cleared up quite a bit of the notes, the calendar too, so the notice I didn't look at notice.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: There were probably five, maybe four or five. So know them went to money committees?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Correct.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, we did. We cleared a lot of

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: the gal I mean, we cleared the calendar. We

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: are no longer behind, except for the couple things we're Yeah,

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: maybe we will. Well, guess that based on what the pro tenant said last week, that be ready for three or four hour sessions, that we would potentially not be able to get up to Waterbury until two. But, yes, I agree with

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So I understand that your intention is to move and do something with February Correct. On the floor tomorrow. Do we have the amendment around the ethics commission from legislative council that we discussed Nope. Striking the ethics commission language and moving the extension the the extension of the vine out of here.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We have what came over from the house right now. We don't have anything else. Which

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: doesn't have the penalties. Right. I understand that. It it does

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: would require. Yes. Which okay.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It includes It still includes the requirement that the ethics

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We commission do have

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: do that. We could not be doing it. Well,

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I was thinking we have to, so I still have to fill out Right. The

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I'm fine with filling out the form. What I think we're all not fine with is there being any penalty or No, that will no, make no,

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Let me try to read what Tim is providing me at this summary. The fifth instance of amendment from the House will amend the law concerning financial disclosures for candidates by explicitly requiring the state ethics commission to answer candidates' questions and to provide informational resources by candidates. Importantly, we'll also suspend through 05/30/2027, any enforcement or penalties for any candidates who's delinquently filed with financial disclosure.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: And I support the second part, but do not support the first part.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I understand.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. So the first part is The exclusion of

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That's the one that has created tension between the Secretary of State's office and the ethics commission. We understand it. But when we change the language to create and maintain, you can argue and perfectly That this committee so, David. That the intent of that was to make the Ethics Commission responsible for the disclosure form. Why? Okay. But that

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: wasn't the intent. I thought what we had agreed to when we discussed this yesterday was to for this year maintain the status quo, which that

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: language does not. I don't believe I

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: No. Not this language does speak. No. It does not. Quo except

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: for not status quo depends on how you define.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It's not. The secretary of state's office has managed this one for at least the last eight years. So by explicitly saying the ethics commission has to do it, we are not maintaining the status quo and then solving

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: But we changed it last year with that same. We're not changing it, in my view, any more than what we did when we said create and maintain.

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: Right.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And, again, one can take a different position on it, and I understand that. And if I could write a blank check of whatever they need, $500,000 for two positions, I would gladly do that. But we're in a box. We're now halfway through the period where we have to file. And I would just assume move this and deal with it next year.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: But we're not dealing with it next year. We're answering the question. If we were gonna deal with it next year, we would strike that language and come back next year and figure out what the answer is.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Well, if that is the will of the majority I committee members

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: would like to concur. I

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: understand that that's a different opinion, but

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: You're saying puzzled.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I am puzzled because it does strike me that we could ask for this year for the Secretary of State and the Ethics Commission to for this year. I'd love to make an exception for this year until they figure out

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: who who is responsible. When you say exception, what what do you mean? No form? Who's gonna answer the questions?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I think we could and they've already provided frequently asked question Yeah. Believe we've And ask them to provide that.

[Representative Matt Birong (VT House, Addison-3) — Charter Sponsor]: Then There

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: we go.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: And then yep. That's not the statute, obviously. No. But it's on the form.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I've already filled out the form. And it's either right at the beginning or right at the end. Well, there's like four or five questions and answers there. What's a trust used when you have to explain that you have $25,000 of a particular stock Has to

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: be in control or 51% of the

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So the the no penalty is not there? No.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: The no penalty is there. The language I have a concern with is that we are firmly saying the ethics commission has to do this. Whereas we've discussed the ethics commission shouldn't be doing this. This is firmly a candidate. Right. And we are making the decision. We're saying we're gonna discuss it next year and figure out where it should live, but we're putting it in statute that it's going the way that it should. Yes.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: And I think my different opinion is that I think we did make it so it was the ethics commission based on and that might be a different interpretation. I think that needs review. So, the problem is I think that needs

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: further discussion and review because I don't think they're capable of it. And I don't think it's appropriate. I think everybody goes to the secretary of state's website for all the information around candidates. Okay. That's where yes. But we are not So I I think if that is the case, I think I will probably join Tanya in voting. But the three of there are three of you to vote? Yes. That's fine.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: But this but this is frustrating because the alternative is to either get rid of the form or to require what the secretary is saying to do it, and they explicitly told us they did not want to do that.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Well, So it does same with the others.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: I agree. But I would prefer to stop. Exactly. And I would say just do what the house did because then we're moving forward at least with continuing with the ethics commission.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It's No. They were not hiring anyway. The secretary

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: of state after the fact that

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: has done it for the last eight years. Like

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: There's a I think that's actually I don't totally think that's true, though. Like, I I understand you've said that a few times, and I think what we heard from the secretary of state was that's not accurate to their understanding or what they've been doing. So, they felt that they didn't have the expertise to answer questions either. Knew it

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: was a conflict of interest because that position of Secretary of State is an elector's position. In sense, they're answering a question that should be answered by an independent outside entity.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Do I think in the long term Yes, by the Secretary of but we are not in a place where they're agreeing with that.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: The other thing I'll just say again, is to give one man's opinion, I said get rid of the form four weeks ago.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Three or four times.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: I'm open to getting rid of the form as well. Like, think that that's

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, that would be an amendment, though.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: And that's why I'm like I would just go

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So if you want to keep because

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: at least you keep the forms, Rose.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I would keep the form. Okay. And So you're gonna vote no. It's okay. You have enough votes to carry. Depends on if she has to agree all the time. I just think this

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: is I know. But this is like, this is the exact issue you have typically when you're swapping chairs. You know? Like, this is I hear this argument from you all the time in reverse, so it's very confounding. How would We can talk about it offline.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay, let me just add, what's the solution then if we, what other thing can we do?

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Yeah, what would the amendment be to the bill

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: that we would Should strike section four? So then

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: the exception of the, so leave the

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Penalty free.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yep, and strike the rest of the language. Then who's supportive?

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Then who answers any questions about it?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I mean, entities have said they're not going to answer questions,

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: so Yeah, exactly.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Then why would we get rid of the form?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: There is an FAQ. People have historically not answered questions in the past or have directed people because a lot of these questions, the answer is going to be, I can't give you legal advice. Yes.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Exactly. And,

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I mean, again, I think I think it sounds like the ethics commission and the secretary of state's office, the form is posted. It is. The FAQ is posted. If we

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: It's already in the works, as you've said. I mean, you guys have already filled out the form. Yeah. So

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: whole website. Codifying that this is the responsibility of the ethics commission when there is not agreement that it should be the responsibility of the ethics commission is to

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, be again, first person plural. I think it should be There's not agreement. Okay.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: But the rest of the bill I I mean, in all parents, there's a lot of other good pieces to this bill, which is a reason to support the bill.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Are you walking back? You're

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Well, I am I am reminded that there are lots of other sections in this bill other than just this one. I just want this problematic enough that I feel support concurring in those sections. Are we

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: just because of this section?

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: I think we wanted to vote it.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, you do have? No, I don't. I don't think we need a form, actually. It's okay. It's okay. Or no, up or down. I'm very sympathetic. If you come up with an absolute gangbuster solution to this, besides doing away with the Section Four, I mean, I already told Phil that we probably wouldn't move this until Friday, but I saw clearly that we're not ready to put an amendment on it in terms of that attack definition, and I don't want to even consider that anymore. Think that's going We're not gonna get that either. If somebody in their wildest dreams came up with a solution that would make both the Secretary of State's office and the Ethics Commission say, wow, we never thought of that. That's a great idea. So

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: the challenge is if we just simply concur, is the impetus for them to resolve this problem for two years from now?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Like, I got people in my picture when when we come back, they'll have they'll have met him. And they said that there was no confusion.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Tipped the scale. We will have said the ethics commission is definitely doing this. We've decided. And what what does why then would the secretary of state's office come to the table to figure out another solution if we've said, you know

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: how to do that? They said they were going to. Yeah. Lauren Hibbard did say that.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Lauren is I think I I mean, I think Lauren I think they're committed to to resolving it, but there's nothing here asking them to do that.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Exactly. We're we're resolving it

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: for them. We're saying, nope. We resolved it.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: No. I don't think that's

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: what we're doing. It's exactly what

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: we're We're continuing we created a problem a year ago by my understanding I'm

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: making this language and using the word maintain. Create, we understood, but maintain, we didn't fully appreciate all the implications in maintaining, or at least what one party understood is maintaining.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Someone else suggested to me, I don't know how this would work, that the Senate Ethics Panel and the House Ethics Panel could be a resource. But they're not

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: a resource. They don't know diddly squat about the law. They can't answer those questions.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Because they are more of a conflict. I mean That's even As soon

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: as I

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: said that, they're like, wait a minute. That's like the the rooster's making rules for the rooster. That isn't I

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: think that's

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That that is not a good idea.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: How do you

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: do it for?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: You know what? I get it. I understand. So I guess I would just strike maintain for this year, and I would ask that the secretary just formal task in session law, ask the secretary of state and the ethics commission to come to come back to our committee with recommendations on how we

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: move forward,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Managing the, what we call, the financial disclosure form.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, yeah, but that isn't in section four. There's nothing about taking off the word maintain. All we get at, we get It's explicitly requiring the state ethics commission to answer candidate questions and provide informational resources to candidates. Tim, do you have a solution? Not really.

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: Something for me

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: to know. It's bordering on politics. I I get it. Well,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: maybe we might have build policy, but we need a solution on how to say what we're trying to say. That's just simply what what we're trying to say. I think it's What we're trying to say, I think we're in agreement if we want resolution on this, and we want secretary of state and the Ethics Commission to come back to us with a solution.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah, but that doesn't help us for now. You'll be an alumnus by

[Kyle Rowe (Town Clerk & Treasurer, Town of Panton)]: then. But

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: are you proposing No. They have to with amendment.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Further incidents of amendment. I mean, that's not

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: a Oh, no. You'll bring

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: it in another two days.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. No. I mean, it's

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Well, it will. But I

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: because he said it's in her with a further proposal of amendment. But

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: if you do concur with a proposal of amendment Then

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: it goes back.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Asset, and then it goes back. Right. But we And then they have to

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: concur or come back with a further proposal of a further proposal But that's okay.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: That's we have time.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: How many many days we got?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Till the twenty ninth, at least.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: At least. We have find the language

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: and Here. Here

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: is 98. I think not What section is it, Tim?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That's where Four.

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: But my bill, it's four.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Okay. So if we could come up with language that would you know, I mean, just I would

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: I'm open to it. What is what's the thought? What's the change?

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: It was

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: my thought. Said my thought.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Which was you want

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I've a very big thought That that for this for this year in session law, that we would strike the word maintain, and that we would ask the secretary of state and the ethics commission to come back to the legislature with a recommendation of how we manage and who manages and or how we manage the what's it called? The financial disclosure form. Yeah. Financial disclosure form. The grant of the financial disclosure form.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: So who do county clerks and town clerks give for form?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: They toast to the Secretary of

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: State's office already. It goes to the Secretary

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: And they post it. Then they have, that's what they made, this little flowchart, and then they

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: They send it

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: to Send it back and forth between the two of them, but the Secretary of State actually is the one that collects and holds the form once it's filled

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: out. Okay.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Let me suggest this. If you look at section four Reference. Is the change coming from the house. That's why it's in Boulder, which makes it hard to read.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah, very hard.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: The commission shall make available on its webpage the disclosure form, already done, prepared responses to frequently asked questions, already done, and any informational resources and materials that it deems necessary to adequately inform candidates of how to comply with the provisions of this section, period. That's already done too to some degree. If we strike the next sentence, upon contact by a candidate, the commission shall provide answers to the candidate's questions by email or by phone, whichever the candidate prefers. I think if we strike that, we have struck a very good compliment.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I think if we strike that and put all that language in session law with a provision that the Ethics Commission and the Secretary of State's office will return with a long term solution.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: A resolution to this challenge.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Like, if we default that in the session law so it disappears after this election cycle, and we do what you just said with

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: that addition of you guys

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: need to come back with a resolution, I

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So would accept the first sentence well, it's not the first

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: sentence, but- Strike that sentence.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. It's the first sentence in blue, Tim.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Mhmm.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: But then beginning on line 19, upon contact, if we struck that, everything else is already there. The office secretary of state shall provide EITRALINs. Yep. Yeah. And then webpage connecting the disclosure and other materials and resources. They really don't have to do anything more than they're already doing.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yes, exactly. Right, just, I don't think that they should necessarily be doing what they're already doing, which is why I'm suggesting you put the language into session law and let them deal with it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I suggested it. So I think that works. Okay. The second amendment and their ruling on a resolution.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Amendment, which is fine, I guess.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Yeah. So I guess

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: it brings some Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Guess with what we concur. Want all this. Instance of an

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: I have have some clarifying questions. Sure. Yeah. So we'll remove that second sentence there and section four that says a final contact by the mandate. That'll be removed. Then the rest of section four would be put into session law, which would essentially sunset in a year to coincide with the wait period for enforcement. The disclosure from okay. So then the idea of striking maintained, does that enter here or

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I would believe that near death right now.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I would would not just admit that and say the secretary of state and and the ethics commission shall make recommendations in January 2027 for how to move forward on who manages and then how who and how the candidate financial disclosure form is managed. Okay,

[Tim Devlin (Legislative Counsel)]: so again we'll be removing that second sentence in section four, then we'll have two provisions in session law, one which will be work together, find a solution, and then the rest of Section four will be temporary for a year. Okay, good.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Can you have like We could do that now. Drafted quickly? Yeah. We could that. Me fifteen minutes. Alright. Got nowhere to go. Oh,

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: I do. Are you gonna wait for to all? I do. Yes. So we're hoping to leave at 03:30, but I never

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Oh, no. We'll have it by then.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Okay. Okay. I promise.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Does that make you feel a little better? It does.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: It makes I know you're

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: not smiling, so I'm not

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: There's a lot in this bill that I I I thought this bill would go to conference committee because I am really disappointed that

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: the The private

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: of action is gone. There's a lot in this bill that I was hoping we would hatch out in conference, but that will change in session level at least make

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: me vote for it. Okay. I'd love to get a five zero one because You're

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: gonna have one.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We did our work, and this is the best we can do this year. And if the Secretary of State's office or the Ethics Commission's listening, I hope you agree. Oh, they are? If if you don't, there's not much we can do.