Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Good afternoon, and welcome to the Senate Committee on Government Operations Committee meeting of Thursday, 04/23/2026. Two items up for consideration today, the first of which is h nine zero seven, an act relating to legislative review of reporting requirements. I just got this notice again that we have on January 3 from

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: I think

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: it came from Tucker. But, anyway, it was the thing that said, if you don't get back to us to tell us which provisions or reports you still want, we'll consider that. You determine they are no longer needed. I just thought that was kinda funny. So Tim Devlin is with us, and I see that we have

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: oh, correction,

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: a new chart. And then we also have a new draft one of the bill. And I don't know which one you wanna walk through first. Sure.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And I should say, it should be the same chart that we've been reviewing. Oh, okay. Hearts got the beat there. And we do have a strike all amendment as offered by this committee to the as passed by the House version. There are two changes so far, and then I provided answers to the written form and then emailed to committee members regarding some of the questions that came up last time. Happy to sit back and go through those as well. So the two changes here We've proposed it. Developing highlight for ease of reference. Much of it is still the same. I just threw it together and said a strike all amendment seems to be but happy to of justice. So we'll see on page 15, we have let's see.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Okay.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: This is section 14 having to do with three PSA thirty nine zero two, Office of Economic Opportunity. Here's where we have Page 15?

[Committee Assistant (unidentified)]: Sorry. It's 14.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yes. Nine eleven.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Yep.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And so we have some highlights on the following page 15 and then going to 16. This is an update, point being the changes advocated by witness testimony, and we have weatherization. Here we have changing it to an annual report that the office shall provide in written form to the House Committees on Appropriations and Energy and Additional Affairs, and to the Senate Committees on Appropriations and for Resources and Energies. And we see some of the content being built out, and the additional lines for sub emissions. 14. Yeah. Yes, and that's the summary of those. That's it. The next amendment, we send The above and then It's page 21. So all the way at the end of the bill. This is in section 23. And this will amend 32 BSA, section three eleven, as retirement funds integrity report. Let me just actually skip over to notes I shared earlier to discuss with this. So there's a request that to add the joint public pension oversight committee as a recipient, that the statute requires a statement that is provided as part of the annual budget report by the governor. So it's not a standalone report in of itself. So can't really, oversight committee wouldn't necessarily receive a report because no report is supposed to be received. But there's subsection B here, essentially empowers various committees to ask for a report from the treasurer on similar matters, and so I've slotted in the Joint Public Pension Oversight Committee, allowing power to request that the treasurer and commissioner of finance management, sorry, also that part of the administration, present on those recommendations. And that would be in addition to the House Senate Committee for the Gov Office on appropriations. Okay, questions

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: for Chittenden, who's going on that question?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Okay, so then moving over back to some notes I provided everybody, which is answers questions that came up last time. So, let's see, on our chart we had some questions about twenty eighteen, Acts one, nineteen nineteen. So, here. Okay, this will be on the second page of our chart halfway through here. And this was actually a series of reports, goes on to the next, for rows, having to do a series of reports pertaining to veteran licensure, and the question was why are these, I just kind of followed up in the form provided. The answer there is that the information seemingly comes from four distinct entities, and so it would probably be best, well, I shouldn't say best, that's a policy decision to make, whether those should be bundled or not, but, so these are coming from the same age. Veterans granted license for trades, other regulated professions, vehicle inspections, who has become the vehicle inspector, and if he was having a license for food establishment, so that information's coming from four different agencies, and I guess it's a policy to show us that it's trying be whether the efforts behind interagency coordination to merge such a report would be important for them, or if it suffices to receive four parallel reports.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I don't know. I'm a strong feeling one way or another. I was kind of hoping that there would only be one agency involved, and you could talk about potential consolidation of reports, but generally that's something more important. Because you got DPS, you got Secretary of State, Department of Health, and then DMV, yeah.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: And inspection stations are pretty different than inspecting food, if I'm understanding correctly. The ins Is the inspection stations like vehicle inspections?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Vehicle inspections. Yes.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Yes. Prevailing. Different.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Not up in the stride. I, like you, was hoping it could be consolidated, but it sounds like that might actually create additional A quick report. Yes. Well, I would want to be going up five. But I do wonder, because the other question I had was whether or not it would make sense for these to be biennial reports rather than every year reports. Licensure tends to happen on a biennial basis.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That makes sense. Yeah, that's not a bad thing, yeah? The rest of the committee feel

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: comfortable I think inspections say that they review every year, but I'm not sure it's I have to grab my charger.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Sorry.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I I mean, it's well, we've been it's specifically about how many veterans have been granted into that. I I still think it would be okay for it to be a biennial report. I think we'll still get the information if we're looking for Every other. Every other year. Yeah. Okay. Then the question is, do we want them at the beginning of biennium or on the second half biennium? And I don't feel scrambling one way

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: or the other. Or do I. Did you have a question, Senator Klux?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Yeah. I guess I I thought we were on the four reports on the second page of 2018. Yes. I don't see service stations.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Because I think that one's on the same Ah,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: thank you. Sorry. It was focused on these four, and I'm thinking, you know, I think I'm just not on the same page, and I wasn't.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: So the

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Becca, is biannual report. I

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: don't read that report. Okay?

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And it's not necessarily that we're reading an actual inspection result. We're reading whether a certain amount of veterans get certified to be inspectors.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: And I think you have to maintain a license every year to be an inspector.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: I know.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Is that true?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: But I don't know. I do well, I don't know either. I know for most of the others, every they're two years. Some of them are alternating years, I still think that, you know, that we're looking at a small subset of people that have gotten those. And I think we can probably gather that information for the purposes of planning those programs with a biennial report. Convinced.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. First year of a biennium or second?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: First. I

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: know there are fewer reports to compete with your attention on the second. Again,

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: easily swayed on this one. So I refer to the I say about the second.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Because the number of reports coming in at the beginning to be are

[Committee Assistant (unidentified)]: substantial. So could you re draft that, Timothy? Absolutely.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So that's Act 119 and it's gonna have Section 8A, B, D, and C. I don't know why those Acts. Yeah. And just make them required to be every other year, in a second year of the plan.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Sure. But Okay. Uneven years. K. Sounds good. Let's see. The next questions came up with 2,018 act one seventy four, and it's okay. So the third page is the part of the table. And this has to do with a report file, a privatization contract, has not achieved your required cost savings or compliance with requirements. And there's a question that's, what does upon condition mean? So this subdivision, I'll attribute two, if the auditor of accounts finds that privatization compact does not achieve the cost of the same agency. Required under subdivision A2, this section will comply with performance measures required under submission B, one of this section, the auditor shall file a report with the agency and the house and senate government office committees. And the agency shall review whether to review renew the privatization contractor for Portland State of the Bronx. So the on condition here means that the report will be issued only if the auditor makes a certain filing.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Okay. Good. Sounds the Yep. On condition I,

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: the let's see. Next question had to do with four v and 70, Section 40. This is from 2019 Act 54, using temporary employees by the judiciary. The question was, is this information found elsewhere outside of the report? I should say that at least, if not the least, some data appears to be available in the state of Vermont employee salary database. When you search by the judiciary, and then you can talk about job type, it comes up as a list of temporary employees that can be viewed with some other information, like name, title, salary. And then one could count the number of rows, although I don't think that that is necessarily exportable from this one.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: I couldn't figure it out.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: The little time I've had to get to it. And I couldn't readily find an example to submit a report to really compare information. I would first defer and see if one of the places behind me, because I had a educated response. And we will make sure our parents' personal results. Did you have any options here?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Yes, I do. I mean, some of these you say Act 171, that's great, but there's no Act 54 anywhere here or any of the acts you're I don't see where that's listed.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Sorry. So is this don't understand the question. Which

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: It's an observation. On the third page under twenty eighteen, it says Act 171, and the one above it, it says Act 119. But then there are no acts listed for the next four or five.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Oh, yes, the second column is in place.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: So is this is second one two thousand nineteen three VSA that you're talking about? That that's Act 54. I mean, I

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: don't it's the one right underneath it.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It doesn't say Act anything. 40 at 50 feet.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: No. It doesn't say that. How many It's the fourth one down. Okay. Yes. But this one has nothing. And this one has nothing. And this one has nothing. And this one has nothing. So act 58, it's fine through that. That's great. Mhmm. But they're inconsistent. One is act sorry. It's trying to follow your chart, which is inconsistent in that the acts are listed on the left hand side, and there are no acts listed after this one. Okay. I see that act 58 is there. What's the act above it?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So apologies that some of the kind of columns and rows here are inconsistent as far as what is, is it the act that's displayed first, or is it a statute and then maybe an act, that's kind of the secondary column. Right.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: So the the one the '2 thousand '19 one is act 54. Is that right? It doesn't say anywhere.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I'm just I'm just trying to think so. Some of them, you know, will have an act and a statute number because the recession law, there's no statute, of course, there. The statutes that don't have an act number, I'd have to look those up. Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: I apologize. So because you keep referring to acts, and then it I can't.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Yes. No. I understand. It's fine.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: It's okay.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Sorry about that. And I can go and It's

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: big deal. Just need to know then which line.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I'm looking at the email, but it's okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Okay. Do not look at the email. Well, have

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: that too. Here's my question for Tim. Are you saying that we pretty much can only get that information if we want and that this report is not for the temporary employees supported We by the can get that from HR. We weren't totally sure that we could.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: That's the question that we asked Tim to answer.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I was unable to readily find the report that's been online to do, Sherry, so it's hard for me to compare what information is in the report near where it could get found out. Okay.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So we'll hear from Sherry if he's finished. And then we have a fourth item. Oh, and that's we already covered that. Okay. Retirement. Yeah. Yeah. Let me just ask, mister Weiss, are you have you seen the language, and are you I have seen the language,

[Mr. Weiss (first name unknown)]: and I appreciate you bringing it into the bill,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: and I'm thrilled that you're so enthusiastic about it. Okay.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Great. Does anyone else have questions for Tim?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I do, and it may just be that I failed to write it down. But the other question I have noted on my little chart, my old chart, my very messy one, is the three BSA subsection 33.1 C3, and that is whether or not the positions of seasonal employment are locatable on the DHR website. I'll have to look at it. Okay.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Anything else for Tim?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: And,

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: actually, I have noted here that it can be found elsewhere. I think I might have been, know, I was observing while my colleague, Tucker Anderson, was. Last thing here,

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: but I'll double check if Okay. Because if they can also be found quite easily, then I would suggest we eliminate that.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Great. Thank you. Well, so let's invite Jerry Corsello to our state court administrator, who will not be here at this moment, and help us figure out the information about the temp employment of the judiciary. Welcome, Terry.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Thank you very much. Terry Coursan, the state court administrator. There are two sections in h nine zero seven that pertain to the judiciary, but I'll do the temporary enforcement first since that's covered. Is the question whether or not the information would be obtainable other than through the report that we file? I think so. Easily obtainable. Easily obtainable. I don't honestly know on government website that has different information about-

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Yeah, the HR website usually has all the temporary employees listed.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: I'm actually not familiar with that website, so I don't know how easily you'll be able to ascertain if they're temporary or not. Under the statute, the information that sought is the number of individuals employed by the judiciary on a temporary basis who worked in excess of twelve eighty hours in the prior calendar year, and the number of temporary positions in which one or more individuals have been employed for combined to more than twelve hours So, a I know we can in our HR data find that pretty easily. So that's what we submitted them for. But just to give you an example, in the last four years, the reports that I've written that evolved in, there were zero. There were zero temporary employees?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Full time temporary very with it.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: So, whether that's available on the, if I don't just, pharmacy.mail, but I can check and find out.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That'd be good.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Yeah. Okay.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Because other than the website, I'm not sure everyone's that information. No. We have it certainly easy, so we're not

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: getting our information. I wonder, because it seems to me, and I don't want

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: to speak for the 2019 legislature, how thought I wasn't here, but it seems to me, given what you've just told us, that it's asking for, what it's really looking for is the number of full time temporary employees. And I wonder if it would make sense to make this report on condition that you report to us

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: if you have. Sure. Yeah.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: If you have it.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So then we can assume that there's no reported zero, but if that happens, then you would report to us that you have an x number.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Oh, sure. We can do whatever. Is that more

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: feasible for

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: you all? Sure. Let's be honest, it's not a huge burden to do this either, to be honest. My understanding is where the gross was, there was an issue in prior years as to whether or that there were, I would say, too many of temporary employees. So the limit is you can't have for more than two years temporary employees who work more than twenty hours a week. So we were aware of that restriction. And so whatever you all prefer is fine with us. Really helps.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I love requiring every other year for a lot of these, so

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: We could do that too. Was just wondering, that, you know, Terry's testimony is for the last couple of years, there haven't been any that we changed the request to be that they report to us if there are any I'm these that meet that fine

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: with that too.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Okay, and that would be an angle. Yeah.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So just making sure it seems This one. That would be on conditions development. Yep.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Okay. Great. And then the other section is in, what I'm interpreting, via blanket section where they're saying it would be repealed. It was in

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: our Yeah, the only questions we had were the ones that we rose, or that rose up. So the other one we must have already decided.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Well, no, I did still have about it the report on Superior Court Public Records cases. Okay, so

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: the question I have sort

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: of is what the intent was, if you have any sense of what the intent of that report is and what it is really reporting.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Yeah, it it was in a 2011 session, I don't honestly have any ideas to be intent. But if this helps to give you just some So that asks for contested cases involving disputes under the Public Records Act. That's what we're typically foregone. And in the last sixteen years, basically, since this has been an effect, there have been a total of 111 cases, ranging from one a year to 12 a year with an average of a little under seven a year. Because the number of cases are basically involved. And it's kind of a variety of government agencies. It might somewhere like school district, a municipality, a police department, AG's office. It really is kind of varied in terms of when people have made public records requests and they weren't satisfied with the outcomes that they can go to court. So that's kind of a category and the numbers that are kind of involved if that's

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: helpful. It helps me.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So, can you remind us what the House said they wanted to do with this particular report?

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Sorry.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: This is the very first one. It's 2011 Act number five, for S9 subsection 15. No, 59, subsection 15.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Looks like they want a dispute. Okay.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I feel like knowing about contested public record stuff is actually fairly important. One would say. Especially given the numbers. Mean, that's over a 100. Obviously not every year, I just, I Yeah, feel it's about seven. Yeah. And I certainly know I've received some pretty contentious frustration with public record stuff. I don't know that I feel good about repealing it, but I will feel okay about making it the biennial. Okay.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Let's do that, and make it again the second year of the biennium. Of course, this will go now back to them for

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: We'll see where we

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: soon as we change it, we gotta

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: have their concurrence have a further proposal with them.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Anything else for? I didn't

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: have anything unless Carrie has other stuff for us.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Those were the only two sections that I feel looked like I've infected the.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Well, is your moment, Terry. All those cookies,

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: you definitely have been not asking. No. I just take the opportunity to thank you so much for all your work on the young Well, thank

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: you for your work. Thank you for your help Yeah.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: On our other bill. We'll I'll look at that. I'll a moment.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Thank you. Oh, sure. No. That's fine. But I think you I guess you're saying Yeah. No. No. If there's any more details.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: We'll see what happens with that. Okay.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: We'll send it. Okay. That sounds fine. I'm right next to you. While

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: we're speaking about terra corzones and her cookies, I might ask inquire of the other side of the table where those cookies might have gone.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I know you, that's terrible. She's sort of behind the chair. Oh, well, perhaps we'd

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: like to pass, I don't know, very moment to say how grateful we are.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Teric Horizons for her efforts of keeping us sweet My pleasure. And well fed.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Your next point is with whom I served on the Human Rights Commission for a number of years a number of years ago.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: That's right.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: He needs one of these bad.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Give it the bad. He's like, you're Thank

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: you. Thank Thank you. Thanks, Darke. Thanks.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Michael Anderson.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Nice to

[Committee Assistant (unidentified)]: see you. Oh, he's on screen.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I think he is. Sergeant. Sergeant, Department of Public Safety. Welcome in. Hi, Terren.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Thank you.

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: Thank you for having me. Can you hear me okay?

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We can. Yes. Perfect. So we have let's see one. Mhmm.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Two. Yep. First page is one. It's the drone you used to report.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So there's just two sections that we were wondering about. And then senator Vyhovsky just said one of them is in title 20. It's a report on drone use by law enforcement agencies. And I'm not sure what the house wanted to do with this, but

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Well, I wish all that

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: report is generated maybe, Michael, if you could. And then next one on page Yeah.

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: So few years ago, once drones started getting a little bit more use throughout the public safety sector, I believe there was a act that required DPS to report annually to the legislature on not only the drone usage for DPS, but also compile drone usage throughout the state. Since then, I think with, you know, with a lot of new law enforcement technology, there is concern for privacy from the public, rightfully so. Right? We don't know how these are gonna be used. We can only put guardrails in and then report how we use them. But I think much like body cameras that this type of technology has been shown to be used in a responsible manner. And regardless of whether we continue reporting to the legislature on whatever you decide, we'll continue to report internally on our drone usage. And I believe the nine other agencies that currently have drones will continue to report on their drone usage or internally, which would be available to the legislature upon request.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Okay. What

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: did the house They were going to section 13. They set this to be reviewed again 07/01/2013.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I think I'm fairly comfortable considering what the habits on this. Yeah, I mean, think ultimately we'll probably land in a place where we would want this report to continue in perpetuity, but let's see where technology is at in 2030 and and reassess. That seems reasonable to me. It'll be a whole new place. Yes. We might not be doing drones anymore. Might be signing new and more

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: have a new jet.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That is true. So you said there were nine departments that used them?

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: Yeah. Looking at the, the report from 2025, it was, VSP, Hartford PD, Burlington PD, Milton PD, Middlebury, Morristown, Springfield, Swanton, and Washington County Sheriff's Department.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yes. Senator Clarkson.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Mike, don't aren't people able to borrow equipment when they need it? I mean, my guess is you don't need a drone all the time, but then there are specific investigations or searches that you may wanna be moving a drone for. Yeah.

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: Absolutely. So the state police, we by far have the the largest fleet of UAS. We have exterior drone, which is used for crash reconstruction. So it's a lot of search a lot of search and rescue missions. Yes. Missing hikers, you know, dementia patients, right, who have taken off from the the yard, use that for that. And then we have internal drones, which are used a lot of times in, like, tactical operations. If we're doing search warrants, the SWAT team, right, will include the drone prior to sending troopers in there just to make sure they're trying trying to clear the residents as best we can before putting troopers in there. And then also if we have, like, a barricaded subject, we're able to communicate with that subject without putting police officers in any more risk. So we we assist all local and county agencies upon request, whether that's for a crash reconstruction or if they're doing a search warrant, we'll we'll assist them with the drones. Last year, state police, we had a 160 drone deployments. And then I think the agency with the next largest was maybe Burlington with 18 deployments.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Sure. Well, it looks like the committee is gonna go along with the house recommendation, which would be that you continue annually report that and we'll take another look at it in, I guess, four years.

[Committee Assistant (unidentified)]: Perfect. Just

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: anecdotally, as you would have overseen, I assume this aspect of the VSP. Do

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: you

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: use is that increase of the use of drones? Assume it's increased every year as we get more comfortable with them and see their use in investigations and searches and stuff. So I assume it's

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: growing in use.

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: Yeah. There's you know, and I I just met with, like, Axon. They're a body law enforcement technology company. And the the drone usage is being, you know, the technology is advancing so quickly. And a lot of rural areas, for example, they have drone as a first responder program where let's say, so from the Williston Barracks. Right? They cover Jericho, Richmond, and there's not always a trooper on duty throughout the night. So they have this program where a drone could be staged, let's say, on the, the town hall of Richmond PD. A call comes in like a burglary alarm. A a drone could be able to respond directly to the scene, start recording the the area, could check the doors on the building to see if there was actually a burglary, or it could have just been a false alarm. And this technology is being used in, you know, rural states like Alaska, rural parts of Ohio, in the Midwest to help speed up a first responder response time. So interesting stuff. So like you said, in four years, the technology is gonna advance so quickly. We might not even be dealing with drones. We might be dealing with something completely different.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Senator Morley, just for Alison's benefit, the electric utilities used to fly helicopters along transmission corridors to check on things, scan things, and all that stuff. They're going for But now they're using drones. It's so

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: much cheaper.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. I mean,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: that's saving so much money.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: What are helicopters? Alison? Helicopter. Put This might be a helicopter. Well no. But so interestingly enough, the Ukrainian military is using drones to drop food to soldiers that are cut off from supply lines. So we might

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: be able to stop using helicopters to drop.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Drones are as long as food is getting to the frontline for, like, painting soldiers are unhappy.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: But they're not they would have used helicopters before, and now they're using it now. That's what the drone technology is.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: So Also drones are big heavy boots. Big. Right.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: They're also using it for vegetation management.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Oh, yeah.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And and all those types of things now. So it's it's making us better and more efficient.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: It could be made. Deployed because I'm looking for all those cannabis plants and cornfields, like, just now. You know? They could map.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Well Well, let's move

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: on to the other.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So the other one from the Department of Public Safety is the license issued licenses issued to service members and veterans, which I think we've agreed to keep to make a biannual report. Yes. But I'm happy to hear if there are if you want, you can weigh in.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Oh, we also have the criminal justice.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Well, that's what the criminal justice council will be here for.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And they're out they're here.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. I know.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: She's What do you feel about every other year report on that, Michael?

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: I'm I'm not really in a position to say. I think I think every every year, like, was or every other year as suggested, I think that's that makes sense. Like, licenses are renewed usually every two years. So might get better data if you guys do it that way.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay. Again, second year in

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: the biennium then, if you could. Go ahead. Yes. I should just note that the reference to public division public safety here is actually it's gonna be the division within public safety of fire safety. Oh. Oh. For veterans obtaining licenses for electricians, German plumbers, and yes, more electrician stuff.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So we don't get any type of reporting on veterans who are getting licensed as, law enforcement?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Not here. I'm Just sorry.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, forget about that one then. I

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: way out of my lane.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Just pinch hitting.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Great pinch hitting, and and I appreciate does that exist anywhere else inside you? No.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: It's all off, but Okay. Anything

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: else for Michael?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Thank you for your time. We appreciate it, and, we'll see you soon, maybe.

[Sgt. Michael Anderson, Vermont State Police (DPS)]: Thank you for having me. Have a Yep. Good

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Lisa, do you have any time constraints or are you, because up next, we have Paul Erlden, but, we can move the, or Earl Baum. Excuse me. We can move that either way. If you just let me know which way you wanna go.

[Lisa Ryan, Community Inclusion Director, Vermont Criminal Justice Council]: I I'm fine with time, so, whichever way you wanna proceed is fine. I'm I'm not limited, but fine. Alright.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So, Paul, will you join us at the table? Be glad to. Paul is one of the commissioners of Vermont State Ethics Commission, and we have, help me out here.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Read the essay subsection twelve twenty six. It is the second to last on the first page.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Oh,

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: yeah. And it is an annual report from the Food and State Ethics Commission.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Yeah, yes. And I believe that that is referring not only to our annual report, but included in our annual report are reports from several other entities, including the Attorney General's Office, judicial

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: conduct board, etcetera.

[Paul (Commissioner, Vermont State Ethics Commission)]: The annual report is a big job, but we've been doing it for the less, well, since we existed. So other parts of the legislature are adding chores to us, but this is what we've been doing happily quite a number of years. Aside from compiling our own annual report, the only real hassle is there's a disparity. The statute itself telling us to compile reports from the Attorney General's Office, Army of Human Resources, Senate Ethics, and House Ethics panels, is that the disparity on dates, it says annually on or before November 15, So all of the following entities shall report to the ethics commission. So, with one exception, I won't say who the exception is, with one exception, they all give us information up to that date, November 15. One entity that keeps fiscal year, starting September 1, only gives us to September 1. We've asked, could you please give us, you know, just a little, another couple of months up to, you know, like everybody else, the answer's been no. That's really the only hassle. Other than that, and my understanding from S nine zero seven is that we would continue doing what we have been doing, that we would be exempt from this stopping reporting. Yeah. Okay.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: That's certainly what I'm advocating for. I think this should be one of those reports that's a permanent report. Yeah. But with permanent funding would help and more funding.

[Paul (Commissioner, Vermont State Ethics Commission)]: And with three more positions who And and

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: not in this bill, just to be fair.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: But this committee advocated for We did. Request, and we now need to go and advocate with the conference committee of that.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Two positions, please. I know.

[Paul (Commissioner, Vermont State Ethics Commission)]: Paul, thank you. Thank you very much, folks.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So Lisa Lisa Ryan, who I know Alright. Attorney, on the way in.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Oh, sorry. Just a quick point. The House has this in section 13 where we have proportion appeal delayed, so this report will not be subject to review again until 2030. Is that how this could or would they like to be reviewed, the requirement of the entire program?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I think that the Advent Commission report is something that we need in perpetuity. I've had Every year, And we should really have almost every six months given what's been happening in this I don't I feel fairly strongly that it should not be one that needs to be raised every four years, that it should be one of the ones that is kept permanent. Stayed on. I'm convinced.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I don't have a strong feeling either way. I mean, whatever body's in place at 2030 can look at it and say, we don't need it anymore or we need it more often or

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: We have a new ethics.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Every other year.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Have a new ethics value at this stage.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Just I I think that I I can't imagine a time in which we don't want a yearly report on on the ethics. Correct.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Let's leave it annually and for it.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: So if I could just quickly interject, if you folks felt like inserting a clarification of what time period the reports of the various other agencies should cover, that would be helpful to us.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I was told we could always go back to on or before, or is that the way it's worded now? You mentioned November 15, and then the other dissent is It says that the report should be submitted on or before November 15.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Oh, you want to have it more?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: You want it more on it.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Not once. No. It's just some of

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: the reports one of the reports that we get only goes up until September 1. Okay. The that statute is not explicit to say that the information should go up until November 15. But when you get it the next year, does it fill in those three months? It it does. It's just Oh.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: You know, the various the eight or nine agencies, they they don't all correspond in time. Which is too bad.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: It would be nice if it's all consistent.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It would, and I I don't know.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: How could we do that with this bill? Yeah. We could just require it and see what happens. The report,

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: it's say, you know, that's looking for this Well This date.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So I imagine what they report says that. I imagine that what they report says this is September 1 through August 31 of That's You know, because that's their fiscal year, whereas it sounds like every other agency is sort of reporting up and up to the deadline. So they're reporting, you know, November 13 to November 14. Yeah. Yours all the data's still there. It's just a little wonky to Right. To I want to maybe offline figure out who that agency is and get a sense from them what the challenge is before I mandated that they change it.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Fair enough.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Fair enough.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: But we can chat offline and we'll Okay. Figure

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So, Lisa, you popped on twice. I I'll transfer. Being inconsistent here. I think that just one report that we have, It is on the last page. No. It's on the third page

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: of our We have second one. Criminal Justice Training Council on second one from on page two. Yes.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: That's it. And it's a report on the use of electric electronic control devices, training, etcetera. So what was

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: the house recommendation, Kim? Do you know?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: One moment. Just five minutes.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Well, I'm curious what that even is. What is an electronic control device?

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I'm guessing a laser.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: It's a drone.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. It's a pasers. Some people said it was like the monitoring system part, like the ankle monitor. I don't even know what's in line now.

[Lisa Ryan, Community Inclusion Director, Vermont Criminal Justice Council]: Well, good afternoon. Thank you so much for having me. Lisa Ryan, she, her pronouns. I'm the community inclusion director at the Vermont Criminal Justice Council. So as far as, I think, senator Vyhovsky's question, like, what is that? I I think that is all is the TASERs, but I'm also, I was thinking that you were gonna be asking more about the fair and impartial policing policy compliance and reporting, so that is kind of what I prepared to talk about as far as the the reports were appealed.

[Committee Assistant (unidentified)]: Oh,

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: is that in the reports repealed?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: The Mhmm. The electric control devices isn't

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: in the bill.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Oh, I guess the House maybe didn't reach it.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Well, says here reports on use of electronic control devices. Right, but

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: the House didn't put it in the bill.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Yeah. Well, I'm not sure why, I wasn't following up at that point. So, was looking at that. What was the second question

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: that The Andrea question of whether the Fair and Partial Policing Compliance Report is in the bill?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: See, yes, we do have, let's see, requirement for Malcolm Justice Council reporting, San Clara Martial Policing and Training that is found and required of 20 VSA, twenty three sixteen eighty six D. That is under section 13 again, so it'll be reviewed again, in 2030. See if it repeal or adjust it or something like that. I

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: get, well, no, I'd love to hear from Lisa on that. I didn't, it's not on our chart, which is what I've been working from, so I didn't even realize it was in the bill. Okay. And then we can talk more, aft, after we hear from you about that, we can maybe talk more about TASERs.

[Lisa Ryan, Community Inclusion Director, Vermont Criminal Justice Council]: So as, as far as the, Fair and impartial policing compliance and policy, you know, we're we're happy to continue reporting until 2030. Like, we can easily accommodate that because we're already reporting to the legislature annually on these compliance and training topics. So there's there's really no issue with moving forward with what we're already doing. It's not an additional burden at all. And as you can imagine, this is really important data for us to be collecting and sharing with you all. So, it's something that we look forward to continuing to do annually.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Perfect. I think it should be until at least 2030, probably forever. Is that are you world changes. Do well, I I think that we should probably always be reporting on how how the enforcement arms of the state are working fairly and impartially. I don't the world may change drastically, and I think that that accountability is always important. Absolutely. I agree. Okay. So, Tim, can I just ask a logistical question? Yes.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: With the taser report not being in the bill, what does that

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: effectively do given that it

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: No effect. It will still be required to be reported as whatever is mandated by the by the legislature originally. This review is something that was suggested through statute. That's the statute that was referred to in I call it attorney Tucker Anderson's was it two VSA 20 D. There's basically several of them staffed with the all new perpetual reports or inquiry or reporting reports basically more than a one off. There'll be a check-in, a check back after five years. The legislature hasn't always been great on checking in those five years. That's why we have this like the events that we open and expire and stuff like that in the chart here. But without affirmative sort of new law here, actually, permanently appealing that it's those requirements, the reports continue to be required.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Do they also continue to show up in this list every So when we come back to the If we don't do extend that, say, to 2030, we'll be looking at it again next year. I would suggest maybe we do the extension to 2030 then. That way we're not having this exact same conversation about this exact same Well, report a year from

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: a good idea.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Okay. Cool. And then I would advocate we make the Fair and Impartial Policing Report permanent, but if we wanna review it in 2030, I won't.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Yeah. I mean, let's help the world as we have

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: a better place by 2030. But how will we know if we're not reporting on it?

[Committee Assistant (unidentified)]: Well, we'll

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: probably be in year until then.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Wouldn't it be nice if that was the time before? I mean, it was

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Lisa, thank you very much. We appreciate it. Enjoy it,

[Lisa Ryan, Community Inclusion Director, Vermont Criminal Justice Council]: Thank you so much. You too. Take care, all.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Thank you. Okay. We have one more witness, Sean Naylor.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yes, ma'am.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Yep, are you in trouble? Love, sweet. Sorry, I'm just listening to the Former.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: She's a director from ADS. How are you?

[Committee Assistant (unidentified)]: I am well. For the record, Sean Naylor, AC Digital Services, retired and back.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I know, Sean, what goes red pubs around, it's good Well, to see what we

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: thank you.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: It's great to be here. So on this personal side, I felt strongly enough about what I worked with you folks on back in '23 on the council that when they were looking for somebody to help facilitate that cybersecurity work, it appealed to me, so I came back, and I've been But you're a natural friend, so Well, thank you. It's been going well, so if we have an to talk about it, it'd be great to kind of debrief you on that. So I think we're here, though, right, for our Cybersecurity Advisory Council report. Correct. I'm gonna say, Let's not do it anymore.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Really? Yeah.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: For a couple reasons, okay? Technology, specifically cybersecurity, is not static enough to be annual independent. And I think what we have experienced so far with this annual report is that we're assuming it's ending up on the right people, the right eyes are seeing it and getting the message, and I don't think that's the case, and I think more of a dialogue of coming in on certain touch points and just talking candidly both about the work of the council and cybersecurity in general would be more effective. That's my thought. The reason I say that is in the last two annual reports, statutorily,

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: one of the

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: things that the council has to do is make recommendations to the legislature. Are there any changes? And in the last two annual reports, we've included recommendations to update the membership of the council, of which we've not heard any activity. We've not been invited into a

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: testify audit or anything And

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: so that kind of is telling us it's not landing in the right places, That it's much better to be, instead of assuming the right people are reading something, right, that we're submitting on an annual basis, is to come in and have those candid conversations. So that's my perspective, a little bit personal, but also the position of the agency digital services.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I think you made a good case. Sandra Vyhovsky?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Can you think of a better way for us to ensure that that is happening? Because I think I appreciate the case you're making, and what my concern, and it sounds like it's already happening, is that we just sort of lose track of it. And I think cybersecurity and information technology in this day and age is critically important that we're paying attention to it and not losing track of it. I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on how we can better put in statute a way that we ensure that that's happening.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: I'm not sure if statute rate extends to things like visiting certain committees on an annual basis, but I think that is the best vehicle, is to, if you've looked at our annual report, it is rather brief, right? We're trying to be succinct because the world we work in is the more you share, the more risk you expose, Yeah. And so it would be much better to have, I feel, the opportunity to meet with the committees that have a vested interest in cybersecurity and review the same elements that we do in the annual report, but do it in this setting where we can have it more dialogue, questions and because I think this statistics. As I've been sitting here, I've been listening to a lot of what the annual reports are, are statistical elements being rolled up and presented for this body to understand trends. That's not what we're working in. We're working in the real time of trying to help water system operators or electric utilities or healthcare entities figure out what they need to do better to be more resilient to cyber threats. It's a different kind of conversation, and I think it's one that we all bring probably personal experience, and when you can have that as a conversation and get it in that that context, it can take sometimes what some people make as a complicated subject and find a way to connect with it and understand how it's applying. Those are kind of my thoughts, to think about how to do it as a

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: annual, formal, yeah,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: but

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: not on the report, because I think the report ends up just, like I said, I think it ends up in the wrong eyes. Yes, Senator Clarkson.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: So given that, know, you have the ability to be in touch with every chair and say, we'd like to come in and we have not heard any response. We we've asked for this change in the digital. You know, you could always have to get on the agenda and say, We'd like to make this recommendation.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: And I think that's one of the things I've learned is that there is this relying on it as the sole means of communication, Expecting that need to nod, right? We look at something and be like, oh, I need to talk, right? We're expecting that and that's not how it's evolving, right? So I understand that and I think we're going into house energy and digital infrastructure next week to talk about the annual report, so we're getting there, but I think that will be the first one I've talked about since coming back in two years or so. Which

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: is why I'm wondering if it makes sense to sort of put it in statute that that meeting shall happen yearly, rather than the report that that that meeting shall happen. Is there you're not gonna be able to answer this question right now. Do you know if there is precedent other where in statute where we've said like this meeting shall happen?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: So if you're depends on who you're compelled, right, if you're compelling another government entity to, by a certain date, appear legislative committees, that can happen. And usually, those kind of reporting entities have the freedom to choose what they report, that would be a written form or just coming in with a formal sophistication. If you're talking about compelling both sides to sit down, like in other legislative committee, then you have to end the rules, and that would be better controlled by other records.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So what you're talking about is that we kept the report as it currently is, Digital Services had already has the ability to have that be a verbal meeting with us, that we actually don't need to change this to have that be,

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I have

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: you need to come to see

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: if it says submit a written report.

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: Okay.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And if it just says report by x date, then they'd have essentially the freedom to choose which one they want. Right.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Can we find out if it's submit a written report? Because I hear you, and I don't wanna

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: Yeah, think we did it days because it has a January 15 due date, which would be hard to get in front of the

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: appropriate Yes, I would suggest we change that.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: So believe it's submit an annual report. I don't know if it does say written, but the date kind of implies that it's a So this is in

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: three VSA 3303, reporting records and review requirements of the agency's agent services. Since it's subdivision A, which is annual report budget, secretary shall submit to house committees, senate committees, concurrent with governor's annual budget request. So that's the timing period. And annual report, so that's the competition period. And annual report, so no reference to grant ed for incremental technology and cybersecurity. The report shall reflect the priorities of the agency and shall include bullets, which are conducive to being read. A lot of information is required here.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: It sounds written or not, but it's. So that doesn't cover the cybersecurity advisory council. Okay. So that was that was Act 71 of the '23 session. I can't remember where it made it in statute, but where is it?

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Section

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: section reports honored before January 15 each year, the council shall submit a written report to the House of Committees on Commerce and Economic Development, on the Environment and Energy, Government Operations and Military Affairs and on Ways and Needs, and Senate Committees on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs, on Finance and on Government Operations with Status Updates as to the Board of the Council. Any recommendations for legislative action?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Different report. Yeah.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So up until this year, the Senate didn't have anything having to do with IT or energy. Right. Across the hall does, now institutions, and they're not included in that report. I guess I'm not a big fan of putting anything in statute in terms of requiring meeting. I think if Sean was gonna be here for a while, he should probably in January of each year. Because to me, as soon as the report is issued, it's dated. And and it it it's just you know, it doesn't live through the session because things change so quickly. I would be glad to have you come in annually and tell us where you are, what you're doing, what's new. And I know senator Harrison across the hall would be as well. Those to me and Maggie well, senator Clarkson won't be here next year, but whoever taking economic development over would likewise. I think those are the three agencies or the committees on this side. Okay. Well,

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: in my understanding of the way the language is written on the report that's on my sheet, and technically, I think the report that's on yours, because they're two different reports, is that it already it's up to you. Is it written or is it a meeting? But it so this doesn't say a written report. Just says a report. We just want from legislative council is that report could be you coming in.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: I guess I'm confused because there are my assumption, what I was, what to believe was that I don't sound was dealing with the annual report of the Cybersecurity Advisory Council. So that's what I read to you. What he was reading was Agency Digital Services required annual report.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yes, which is separate. On IT and cybersecurity.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: That is separate than the cybersecurity advisory council's annual report.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Okay. But and it's not, right.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: I'm not sure which one, and I guess, I apologize, because I tried finding a nine zero seven listing of the data in cybersecurity and I couldn't, so I wanted to make sure I could speak to what the expectation was. So what is the report specifically that?

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So the one that is on our sheet is from three VSA subsection 3,303 A, and it is the annual report on IT and cybersecurity from the Agency of Digital Services. So different report, but you're bringing to us that you have a concern about this report as well, and if we're doing a report spill, I feel like

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: if there's a problem, we should fix it.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: Well, I'm trying to remember. Currently, I think the Social Security Advisory Council is set to sunset in '28.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: In '28.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: Right, I think we did a five year horizon on that bill in '23, so it's meant to go in '28. We only have two more iterations, so we can continue as is and maybe more proactive of getting in front of the right committees moving forward and then adjust from there.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: My question for you is if a shift from a January 15 deadline when we've been in the building for maybe a week and a half to a February 15 deadline would give

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: you more time to do that and meet the requirements. For the Cybersecurity Advisory Council?

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: Yeah.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: That way you have a longer runway to actually get in front of the committee.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Yep. What was the House recommendation attempt? Do know? This was, oh, for three PSA 3,303, which has the statutory records. House didn't incorporate this development.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So we just let it be? Well, now we're talking about two Yeah, different sorry,

[Teri Corsones, State Court Administrator]: I completely That's okay,

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: but I I guess where I'm coming from is if we're doing a reporting bill and we can make it work better now Mhmm. Why not? And if simply shifting the deadline of your report to February 15 instead of January 15 gives you the runway to come and sit in front of the committees you need to improvise report in a way that actually is valuable, I would support doing that. I

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: wouldn't be opposed to repealing it and having ADS come in to the committees annually.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: So again, they're two different reports. The report in our bill is the ADS one. Yes. This is the Cybersecurity Council.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: And I apologize because I am not in a position to represent Secretary Riley Hughes as to their current desires with regards to that annual report. Okay. So I was

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: That's okay.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: The one you're doing, that's representing you. It's representing me on your behalf.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: The one you're doing isn't in this report.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It's not.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: Nope. I'm guessing that where the wires and when when cybersecurity got added, everyone kind of Okay. Yeah. Thanks to the council first.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: But I feel like rather than making them continue to produce a report that's not useful for the next two years, we can extend that deadline for them one month to allow them to be more effective for the next two years if we're already doing a reporting bill, and then we can hear from Secretary Riley Hughes on the report we actually meant to hear about. Okay.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: We are past time, so I am sensitive to your next session, but I would be more than glad to come back and talk about the work at the council. That'd be great. Okay. When you have an opportunity. Yeah. We can probably have you next week? As a mostly retired person, that Mondays work great

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: for me.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Wait a We're

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: not here Monday, but I

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: No, that's why I suggested having you at the end of our meeting. You thought you might like to do that.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We are running more. Senator Clarkson.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: So I just think generally for whoever's listening, if the legislature in the various committees have not responded to reports in, taken action on recommendations in reports, I encourage people to, and departments and agencies to proactively reach out to the chair and say, we haven't heard from you, we'd like action on this, and we would like to get on the calendar and on the agenda. So I don't, particularly for senators whose bandwidth is narrow, timeframes are short and too many emails. Often we get behind that email. I and often get behind that reading the reports that come in to

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: us, which is one of

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: the reasons we're doing this work because we get too many reports we don't read. I encourage everybody to be proactive. You have not heard from us, please be in touch with us. And it's

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: not our committee anymore, it's my understanding. You were talking primarily to No, the the board it goes to digital services in the house and others.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: Yes. What's in statute is it goes to four different committees.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Including this on the agency. Oh, okay.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Right? Government operations. Sorry. Yeah. So we'll

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: send you an invite for next week. Looking forward to it, I just have the Correct.

[Tim Devlin, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And I'll have to be ready to talk

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: about what I I wanted to talk about. Okay. Derailed you. So No.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson]: Do you wanna talk about being semi retired or about Oh,

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I have to leave

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: it updated. I could spend

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Sean, think

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: you have

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: an important thing that we can fix for you for the next two years so the note derailed us a little bit, I'm glad you did.

[Unidentified participant (diarization mixed)]: Thank you. That was great.

[Sean Naylor, Agency of Digital Services]: Thank you for your time. See you again. Yes. Good to see everyone again.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. So we obviously have some more work to do on this bill.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I think there's three outstanding questions and I'll work with, I hope we get the right people to answer them. Then I, we might have till So next

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: ten minute break and we'll pick up the OPR bill when we come back.