Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Good afternoon. Welcome in to the Senate Committee on Government Operations meeting of Monday I'm sorry, Tuesday, 03/24/2026. First up today for our consideration is eight five eight eight, which we affectionately call the OPR bill, an act relating to professions and occupations regulated by the Office of Professional Regulation. And we wanna have Kate Newtons come up. She was the sponsor of the bill from the House and kinda helped us understand what was going on in May. Welcome, Kate. It's great to see you. Do you know everybody on I the

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: believe I do. Okay. Yeah,

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: thank you

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: for having me. Very sunny in conclusion. So, let me know what would be most helpful, but overall, let's build a few things. Big picture. It makes it a little easier for some people to enter certain professions. It streamlines paperwork for some other professionals, and it regulates massage therapy establishments so that it will be easier to enforce human trafficking. That's kind of like the

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: big picture. Okay.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: So I can sort of highlight my adult report if that's helpful. That'd be great. I went out of order because I think that some of the more bigger sprinkles are not really ordered. So for CTAs, this bill will allow them to become certified through apprenticeship, basically. So they'll still have to take an exam to be placed in these, but they can also do it through experience instead of just having that education. Mhmm. That's make it more affordable for a lot of folks and hopefully make it easier for us to get more CPAs, which we need. Section 14 also

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yep.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So Kate, don't CPAs at the moment get the the certification? And, I mean, they take they train academically to be a CPA. Mhmm. And they have a certification for to be a CPA. Well, why isn't that enough?

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: It is enough. It's just this is an alternate way to get there.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: And it's like reading the law.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: Yeah. Mhmm. Yes.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Sorry. Did you have finding me some more?

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: You do?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I don't. You have

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: an overview of it that was it'd been just emailed seconds ago, but you also had it printed, and it was on the stack of my.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Don't see it. But, anyway, I'll catch up.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: It's 588.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yes, I got it. Required. 588.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: And then just going to section 14 that aligns the continuing education reporting requirements for advanced practice registered nurses with national standards and eligibility. Section 18 is the one that requires registration of massage therapists established prior to massage establishments. And then section 19 makes sure that people who are victims of human trafficking are immune from criminal prosecution.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So Have we done that already? I mean, I'm sorry. We've done we've massaged therapists in four front in this committee for years. I thought we had registered already.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Rather than maybe getting too granular, we're just fine. Okay, sorry.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I don't know what's in the bill. Senator White?

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Well, had a question about a section that we did not discuss because it looks like you're kind of going over the top level ones, but I'm happy to save my question. It was related to the midwives and the removal of their group. Sounds like they have a

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: board that's being removed. I have to leave. I have to

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: Alright. So, sections one through seven are ones that apply to the general powers of OPR and licensed recissions, and for various reasons, allows them to be that with one of their options for dealing with licensure. Sections four and five allow OPR to enforce against fraudulent attempts to obtain licenses. And Section six requires members of professional boards to be adults, just due to the nature of what is cited. Section seven tracks terminology to align board and licensees application denials with all licensure denials. Those processes will be the same. Section eleven and twelve create a special license for dentists to teach in dental schools without a fee. So, there might, sounds like there's going to be a potential dental school in Vermont. Oh, yeah. The dynasties to teach there will have

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: a special license for that also. Yes. So, someone's coming from out of state. Section

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: 13 redefines funeral services as providing for the disposition of dead human bodies by cremation, alkaline, hydrolysis, natural organic reduction.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Section 15, I love that,

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: Allows additional pathways to licensure for psychologists. So if someone doesn't have all of their, like, 100% of their coursework, could still potentially get that licensure and then OPR specialist deals to develop around that. Again, trying to address some of the needs for licensed professionals in Vermont because we're almost every sector, it seems like. So section 16, which is the one that you mentioned, just aligns the midwifery regulations with national credentialing procedure. And OPR still have the discretion to request individual practice data, but it makes it so they're not having to report that separately. I believe the the board question we had is Yeah.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White (Member)]: Yeah. I see. So, it says dissolve the midwife advisory committee and that says, to the director and to the commissioner of health. I guess I could be read the exact language but it's you're no longer having that special for now. It's just the director of health basically reviews.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: I believe so. Beyond that, very much. Well,

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: you can weigh in what you want. Sorry. I just

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: speak to that. Lauren Hibbert, deputy secretary of state. When midwives were originally licensed by the State of Vermont, there was a lot of concern about midwifery. These are home midwives. So not only were there advisors, which is the traditional advisor profession model, there also was the creation of a midwife advisory committee, which was a separate committee, and it reported to the director and the commissioner of health, had midwives and physician membership. It's been very hard for OPR to staff. There hasn't been a lot of utility or use from it anymore, and so we are recommending that it be dissolved because it hasn't been a functional resource in quite some time.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: And then section 17, create the Sunrise Report for the speech language pathologist assistance. They were really excited to have this happen, facilitate their work in the schools. And I think this should make it easier for us to get more of them. And then section 20 are the effectiveness. And we heard from a bunch of people, do you want me to list their witnesses there?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Felt like you already talked about 18 with the massage therapist. Yep.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I'm sure we'll have many more discussions.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Oh my god, we've been talking about massage therapists for this day.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: And our committee voted this bill out, typically 10 through at once.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: And on the floor, just a voice vote? Yep. Okay. Any other questions for Kate? Well, are off the hook. Thank you.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Thanks very much. I appreciate it. I understand you've been on

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: this floor a while, so

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: give some nourishment So for your

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: the other highlights, Kate, no fee raising? Don't want

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: you to Only the establishment of fees.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Right. Establishment of fees, but no fees being raised. At least know that even though we have a SRS.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Yeah. We're gonna plan to address that in the next phase.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Thanks, Kate.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Maybe we need to as much as later. Boy.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Tim, do you want to step up? Sure. Yes.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Good idea. Yes.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I just want to remind the committee members the procedure is not to ask him why that would require him to offer an opinion on policy if you have specific questions about what's in that he'll allow. Thank

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: you very much for having me back. You're welcome. For the record, my name is Tim Dutland, Vice President Counsel. And Doctor. Collamore already indicated you do have the As Passed by the House version, which is 32 pages, then an overview. I put together that material, which is six pages long. Oh my god. Here, Alison, you have this.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I know. I know.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: But you're

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: looking at the pill, though.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I know I'm going I have to get back. I don't know how to get back to the overview. I mean, I know you know how to do this fast, but sometimes I might

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: fast way to print a

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: copy of the mill. It's It's a mill. I've got it.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Maybe you can ask the print again.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: But I'm just Sure. Overview.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: You

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: got it down by a bit. Okay. I

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: can work off the overview and jump into maybe the words of the film in particular when there's a question or a want. Excellent. Okay. So I will kinda take the Miles High introduction here. It's just kinda fuzzing through the purpose, rapid fire, and then we'll get a completely granular but, you know, level two of detail as described in the outline here. Just an introductory note, this bill can be broken into two general parts. First, the Title III, which are the general powers of OPR. This is in the executive title. And then Title 26, where we have the professional specific, So the first part that is the general powers in the office, this bill proposes to explicitly enable OPR to rescind licenses in instances of the Ministry of Error, nonpayment, or withdraw from or collapse the agency contacts. It will enable OPR to enforce against attempted fraudulent consent to procure or attempted to use of. Statute. Right now, it is the actual conduct and not the attempt of. It will propose to require professional regulation I'm sorry, board members to be adults. It will correct terminology for licensed denials of foreign applicants. It will create additional open so here's where we go turn to the twenty twenty six provisions having to do with specific professions. It will create additional combinations of education experience. This prerequisites for accounting licensure. It will create a limited academic dentist license where we have that kind of phantom fee of zero dollars. It will remove the requirement for APRN, or Advanced Practice Registered Nurses, when they are renewing their licenses to include documentation of completion of those practice requirements. It will enable pharmacists to prescribe, order, administer tests for COVID-nineteen, influenza, streptococcal pharyngitis, and drug treatment related to those conditions, it will enable OPR to create temporary policies to supplement psychologist's license education requirements, this would be notwithstanding any contrary rules, That is kind of a, a pseudo pilot period and get into that. But, sorry, Vyhovsky.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I just wanted the, so the pharmacists can administer those tests and then prescribe treatment for, so that's like antibiotics. Would it be past COVID as well? Okay. I realize that. Thanks. Nope, this is a live question, this is an OPR question. Noise, Chad.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: This bill will also eliminate the Advisory Committee on Midwifery, the reports of OPR and the Commission of Health, and changes to the license removal requirement for midwives to submit individual practice data to a discretionary decision to be made by the director, as the director can't require that if it's not necessarily the department statute. It will modify the definition of what is the practice of funeral services to include the disposition of human remains by cremation, alkaline hydrolysis, more natural organic reduction. It will require OPR to report on the possible professional regulation of speech and language pathology assistance, as to be distinguished from pathologists themselves, and is creating a sunrise report for those, and assistance. And then it will require the registration of massage establishments as distinct from massage therapists themselves and expand on operational requirements and related unprofessional conduct establishments. Any questions so far? I'll have Lauren Reed enforce my knowledge here of the three levels. There's registration, certification, licensure. Is that correct?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And each involves a little bit more I don't know if I won't say accountability, but it it took a little more complicated than the one below it, if you will. Maybe that's a poor way to express that, but I just wanna make sure. So what we're talking about here with the massage folks are registration, which is the least involved.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yes. And we already registered the therapists themselves.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: These are the establishments.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: But we had battles of whether they should be licensed or not. They've given us the track record of some of the abuse that we had to hear in this committee report, it was appalling. And we had the same battle with contractors. We have this on a regular basis, this discussion. We almost seldom, very seldom went on certification. We always seem to be either registering people or licensing them. K? Okay.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: So now revisiting each of these points in more detail. Not too much detail, but I thought, you know, real sense of what the bill actually contains and how it sees through the the dress and various items. So in section sorry. Part one of the bill, we're gonna be speaking some general powers, OPR, then this title three powers, so we need sections one through seven of the bill. And start with section one, you click the three VSA one twenty three, duties of the office. And this is that mechanism for rescission licenses in the instances where they are issued either erroneously through administrative error through because of nonpayment of fees or when a compact becomes no longer binding on the state. State withdrawals from it voluntarily or some compacts that they don't have x number of states, the essential staff function.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Right. Senator, what's So, Tim, the difference between the board supervises and oversees a profession and the and OPR doing this because currently a board, like, I've had dentists in my eight neckerwoods had their licenses revoked. That's gone by the board, not OPR. So this enables OPR to do this, not a board. Congratulations.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: If I may again, Lauren Hibbert. In very specific instances that are more administrative in nature versus unprofessional conduct or disciplinary, that's the death When of the there's a need for professional expertise to decide is should this person's license be revoked, suspended in conditions, warned, then those are unprofessional conduct cases. Those go before the board. But if it's more administrative, as legislative council just outlined, the the reasons that we are asking for authorization for this are more administrative in nature, more more bureaucratic, more related to the process of the actual licensing action, then we are asking for the authority to rescind. I don't know, and I apologize, I don't know if legislative Trump got to a place where the licensee could appeal that decision and then it would go before the board. There's Yeah.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: And we'll find most of this process built into section three, which will create a new section in title three, title three BSA one twenty nine c, precisions. And, again, this will enable a preoperative sending license. Those three categories of occurrence, whether they be issued by administrative mistake, fees not paid, or the control from the contactor, the conclusion of contactor. And the rescission process will take two forms, essentially based on how long the holder of the license has had that license. So if it's for less than thirty days, there's a certain standard of due process for it, and then if there's more than thirty days, they they are able to help that license. There's additional due process for that person. And so would the committee like me to go through that or just kinda put a pen in it for now? Mean, is on it. Okay. So and then we have section four, which will amend let's see, I should just describe sections four. Oh, yes. Four kind of clarifies existing language and the disciplinary actions to be reported to the office. Section three BSA one twenty eight, we'll remove it and double negative. We'll provide more clarity that everybody should be on the office. Section five, speaks to unprofessional conduct in three VSA one three nine a. Here's where we have the inserting of the attempt language when it comes to the definition of what constitutes unprofessional conduct, of course. Before, it was just fraudulent or deceptive procurement of for use of a license. That means, certainly, the attempt thereof to broadening that category, but very much in this similar sphere. And let's see. Also in that section, we have adding up a new subsection g, enabling the licensee a licensee with substance use disorder to voluntarily enter into a conversion program as an alternative to disciplinary processes. Section six, we have, oh, yes. Three DSA one twenty nine b, board members and advisory appointments, and this will be amended to all board members must be adults. And that is the age of majority, which end of the state is 18. Section seven. Senator Clarkson. Maybe this

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: is a better question for Lauren. What prompted this? Certainly the assumption is that they're all adults.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: That is a better question.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yes. We'll hold that. The

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: let's see. Section seven addresses the Uniform Process Reform Credential Verification in three BSA one three seven. And let's see. In subdivision d of this section, we have language regarding license denials for foreign applicants, which incorporates by cross reference standard license denial procedure found in three VSA one twenty nine. And let's see. This was somewhat recently amended in 2023, and eliminated the preliminary denial process or license applications, not on the basis of qualification. And this amendment corrects the accounting terminology by removing the word preliminary or license denials. So I'm just gonna have Part two of the draw, and here's where we transition out of title three back into title 26. I'm gonna do a specific profession that's being regulated. We go now to accountants in sections eight. And there's just a note here of the word came in from another house bill. It's not, like, important to her folks. So and it was kinda steeple about the result update that's nothing only for next time the computer reviews it. So let's see. We have some modification of some of the terms and definition section for accounting says point six v six thirteen, namely the definition of principal progressive business replacing the term. See, substantial equivalency with mobility, which is more in line with common parlance vernacular terminology, lingo, etcetera of professions. And then you have section nine, which, let's see, amends 26 v s a seven point a, license by examination to create additional combinations education experience as prerequisites to obtaining a license by examination. In essence, there's various kind of combinations. Okay. This level of education plus this level of experience on the job, and then you are qualified to take the examination to qualify your licensure, and this will introduce additional accommodations, or less education, more or less experience. Let's see, section 10, will rename 26 BSA section 74 c to be mobility, and this will enable an out of state accountant, so that they do not need to obtain a license if they both, one, are licensed in any state and, two, pass the uniform CPA examination and have a committed conversation with education and living experience, which will mirror the additional, options concession nine prior. The name is Cortez on the campus. Okay. Move on to dentists. And this is sections eleven and twelve of the bill. Section 11 will create a new section to be able 26 VSA six zero three limited academic dentist license, which will create that limited academic dentist license. And I'll be further teaching in an accredited dental program under the general supervision of fully licensed dentists. Let me skip down to section 12, which will amend the fees portion. And this is where we have that kind of family fee of just $0. It's spelled out just because Pant? Why are we calling it? Pant.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It's there, but it's just not there.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Gives us room to set.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Part four, having to do with funeral services. And this is where we see the definition changed in '26 BSA and 12/11, that is, the practice of funeral services, which will now include the provision of disposition of dead human bodies by cremation, alkaline hydrophysis, or natural organic destruction. Are there definitions in the field of what those last two things are?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I think I understand cremation. I'm not sure I understand alkaline hydrolysis, or I don't

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: think we do define them as a Some

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: of those same in the past, most natural burials. Green

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: green burials. Green Right?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So I'm But composting. Composting is natural reduction. Remember, it takes a long time. We voted a few

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: years ago to make legal.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yes. Yeah,

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: I remember that.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Alkaline hydrolysis is dissolving a body. Yes. Okay. That's what

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: happens. Alkaline's in batteries too.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Well, alkaline is just describing that it is, pH level. A basic, an alkaline pH as opposed to an acidic pH. Yep. We can't dissolve someone in acid, but we can dissolve them in a base. That would

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: be illegal. Oh. Bob's job.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: I guess maybe we could ask to share a bunch

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: of the funeral directors. Yeah. I didn't mean to get home, though. Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: No. I'm just curious. Yeah.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It would probably be good

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: for her funeral directors.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Actually, I was listening to Michelle or Melissa who the person who came from the green from the

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. And the directors would be great at both.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. Oh, this is fine.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: You can find a nostalgia.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Because we just did some while ago. Those are two new pathways. Yeah. We did the.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: I'm not sure

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: if we That was a big big big

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: brought up to speed.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: When when did we do that in '23, '22?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: They were '23 for '1 and then 2020

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: '20 a while ago. The organic reduction was first. And that maybe was in '21. And that's the composting. It creates a lot of organic matter that brought me reused. And then alkaline adds sort of a host keys and it's dissolving on bodies. And I believe it's like a electrified water process. I think there's only one facility in Vermont that's using it. That is different than Green Mountain Cemetery, which is organic dispositions in the ground, right? Natural burial is what that's called.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: I think you're placed and done. Yeah. This whole process, and then you get

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Organic reductionist. You're put into something and then turned as if you are, you

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: know, you are an accomplishment essentially with other organic matter.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: I'm glad we got lunch. And all of that is to help come up with alternatives to cremations and traditional Okay. Bombing methods are extremely tough.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Chemicals and environment. Energy. Remember we talked about this high amounts of energy with lots of chemicals bad for the world.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay, so then we turn to advanced practice registered nurses. This is

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: the second

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: 14 And year again, this will say amend '26 VSA 1614 to remove the requirement for advanced practice.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Did just jump over to them to

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: I guess it's brief. Great. I can go back to it. And so let's see. Section 14, rule nine twenty six VSA sixteen fourteen to remove the requirement for a general practice of registered nurse's renewal, license renewal letters to include documentations of completion of the APR and practice requirement. The part six, we get into pharmacists, and we have section 14 a that will amend '20 six being sent to 2023, And this will enable pharmacists, in accordance with the board

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: and

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: pharmacy rules, to engage in the fact that clinical pharmacy, including prescription I'm sorry, prescribing, initiate antibiotic therapy pursuant to a collaborative practice agreement or state protocol. We will also enable pharmacists to prescribe, order, or administer in a manner consistent with valid state protocols, test for COVID nineteen influenza, strep pharyngitis, and a subsequent drug treatment for those conditions. And there's a note here that state protocols are reviewed by the Commissioner of Health after consultation with the approval of the professional regulation and the Board can and the disability for quality comments as well. Okay, moving on to psychologists in section 15. This will prove eight. Is session law that will enable OBR to temporarily make policies for a three year period regarding the supplementation of educational requirements for psychologist licensure. These policies will control, notwithstanding any contrary rule, require, the section will also require OER to adopt updated rules regarding supplementation by the end of that period. K. And now we turn to big blocks in section 16, and this is the of the entire chapter, but really just too specific statutory sections. Well, then House 26 BSA forty one eighty five having to do with direct or duties will resolve the midwife advisory committee to the director and to the commissioner. 26 BSA forty one eighty seven having to do with renewals for the wife's licensure will remove the requirements that a licensed legalized submit individual practice data later to the discussion is directed to require that amount. Part nine of the bill has to do with yes. No worries. Sorry.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: But they do report all of the information to somewhere else already, is my understanding. So this isn't this was this is to reduce the duplication of submitting it because they have to report it already?

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: To Purdue, yeah. Okay. Veterans. Part nine is to do a speech language pathologist assistance, and section 17 of the bill will create a new section law, sorry, this section law that will require OPR to perform a sunset review, sunrise, good view, concerning the suggested level of credentialing speech language pathologist assistance at the sick and the staff. Alright. And so now we move on to massage therapists, body workers, touch professionals, and just for sake of brevity, I'm just gonna be truncating and referring to as massage therapists. But no, I'm speaking to all three. And this will be in sections eighteen and nineteen. Together, these sections would make and require the registration, massage, and establishments. And, that is the existing term, but it really modifies what it was, place of business. And we'll expand on the operational requirements and the related unprofessional conduct provision for be a risk now registered profession. So section 18, we have the amendment of the entire chapter in this 105, which we fully have all the provisions for massage therapists. And I'm just gonna run through the various statutory amendments here. So title 26, BSA fifty four zero one, along by the definitions, here's where we have definition of establishment, one being, a method so that you change the meaning from a place of business to a location where the practice is regularly engaged in, then it also removes the definition of place of business. The next section, 54.3, having unauthorized practice, must be amended to to who may be found conducting unauthorized practice. That is the will now include individuals who own or operate unregistered establishments. Fifty four zero four having to do with exemptions for registration, and this will be added so that massage therapists who's allowed to practice in the location is not required to register establishment, the licensee, and the client agreements. Yes. Okay. There's somebody from there. Right. I'll take that. Senator Morley.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Just kind of on this section

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yes.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: I'll just give you an example. We have a a fantastic location called Open Door in Downtown Wagner Junction, which hosts bodywork professionals. It's a yoga studio. I think they do aerials, yoga. I mean, they do the Gannett. Okay. Very important place. They also have folks who do massage therapy in a room as well. Does the would Opendoor be an example? They would have to register as a an establishment? Yeah. Okay. But if they it it's not the primary purpose of the place.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Right. It's there's still massage taking place in that location.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Okay. So if they rented it out because they rent the space out to certain massage therapists who use the room. So who would would the landlord have to be the one to

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: See. I'm trying to think if it's if it's under the one name, I would imagine it's would be required to, versus if it's renting a room but associated at all. It might be a different scenario. We do have a provision here where it's all practitioners essentially don't have to register Okay. New soundtrance. Well, it's under it's associated with breast cancer, the hypothetical, to be sizable enough to register as an establishment. I can think of more about it.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Okay. Yeah.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Too. Maybe if depending on how you the nuance, like, I'm

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: just it's probably more actually.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Yeah. I could see there's a couple places that kind of do a mixture. We also have someone who does acupuncture. You know? So it's a space that's used by multiple practitioners.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So I don't know if

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: it sounds like they would be required to have a license if there was any kind

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: of that

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: happening, but I don't know who would register. Would it be the landlord? Would it be the massage therapists who are maybe a

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: group of folks who are

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: renting a space? That's how they do it. There's a few of them. They'll rent and rotate the space with their clients. So maybe they would have to register as an entity? Like, what would?

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Again, I would invite OPB

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: to kind

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: refine on it

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: as well, but

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: I think it does depend on the relationship between renter or the frontee here, because I don't see how independent they are. Okay. But maybe that's just me concentrating along how

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Yeah. Are they like three solo practitioners? You know? I don't know.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: But I will say the definition is, you know, where the practice of massage or the practice of body board is regularly engaged in.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Yeah. I would consider that. Okay. Thank you.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Let's see. So we turn to where we have director of duties, think.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: What if you were, okay, just an example. What if you were a chiropractor, for example, but you allowed a massage therapist to receive clients on occasion in your offices? Would you have to register as an establishment?

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: If they are your employee or

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: They are not your employee.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. So this is just associated with an independent contractor Yeah. Type of mean, practice is there, but they are a solo practitioner, so they wouldn't have to register. They, I mean, massage therapist themselves would have to be registered, yeah, I don't know. I'll have to drill on that.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: May depend on the definition of regular.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Yeah, like if you because I

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: know there's, you know, for example, a

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: chiropractor who has a relationship where his clients also get, like, physical therapy and then also massage, someone who could come into that location so that you don't have to drive, either right in town.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: So, let's see, 26 VSA 5,411 having to do with the duties of the director will be invented. A new subsection, subcultivation five, enabling the director to adopt rules limiting the applicability of this chapter as applied to the establishments operated within private commerce. The next section, fifty four twenty three, establishments designee inspection. It's been amended to require establishments to register with the PR. We will ensure that establishments and establishments is being operated while we meet with all of us whether or not the owner is on-site as far as personal knowledge of the operation. It will provide the director with the ability to demand certain ownership information and to make inspections prior to registration. And finally, it will enable OPR's denied registration based on the location of prior unprofessional conduct. Then we turn to the B session, particularly to this profession, in 2016, say, '54 or '25, and let's say this will be amended to enable an establishment where the practice of massage or the practice of bodywork is provided by only two massage therapists to pay a reduced fee of $50 for a restriction and $75 for a white annual renewal. I should note that, again, you mentioned just in passing it was down that solo practitioners do not have to register for establishments. They're gonna want us to do that, right? But also, then there are establishments with more than two massage therapists who pay the default fee of $3 for an establishment restriction.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Okay.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: So we have sole practitioners coverage during that establishment, paying the fee. Two will pay a reduced fee, then more than two will pay the default. And then we have amending fifty four twenty six, having to do the display of registration, and this will now require the display of both the establishment's registration in addition to any practice of licensing, licensing, supply of therapy as well. The unprofessional conduct provision is in 54.7, and this will kind of read into section 19. Oh, I should say before moving on, just skipping But section 18A will amend three BSA 125. This is where all the fees are running less of enumerated fees are for other professions as well, and this kind of creates that enabling reduction for holding two massage services. Going back up to 5427 of professional conduct, this will be amended and will constitute some professional conduct, and we've added to let's see if that works. We'll be engaging with a client in sexual conduct and have defined by criminal statute 13 BSA twenty eight twenty one. And then skipping down to 19 section 19, this will add another criminal type statute that is 13 VSA twenty six thirty eight and to do immunity on wide building. This will add a safe harbor provision for victims of prostitution and trafficking, allowing them to report those crimes without themselves being prosecuted for unauthorized practice of massage or bodywork. And the effective date. Yes. So we have sections one through 10 of general powers as well as accountants. Sections 13 through 17 of the funeral services, advanced practice director for nurses, psychologists, midwives, speech language pathology assistance reports, those will all take effect on passage. Sections eleven and twelve have to do with dentists, so that will be academic. That shall take effect on 09/01/2026. Then, let's see, we have section eighteen and nineteen. 18 having to do massage therapists. And 19 having to do that safe harbor provision for victims. Those will go into effect on December 1. Is there anything else?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Momentarily, I think, putting on my judiciary hat for a minute, maybe I'm just nitpicking language, but based on the definition of prostitution, I'm unsure how one could be a victim of prostitution. Trafficking, yes. But I am wondering, just from a legality standpoint, the depth of how we define that. So, let's see, it

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: looks like 13, BSA, 2638, defines prostitution as having the same meeting in, see, 1326, '31. Let me look that up. '31.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: We're in the last three minutes. Is that a

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Sorry. Thought it was 06/13. Oh, sorry. Okay, and that's, this is under 13, chapter 59, Lewdness and Prostitution. Subchapter two, Prostitution, twenty six thirty one, as used in the section one, the term prostitution shall be construed to include the offering or proceeding applied for sexual intercourse for hire, and shall be also be construed to include the offering or proceeding applied for a discriminate sexual intercourse without hire.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: That's a crime that one commits. I don't understand how one can be the victim of it. It's arguably a fairly victimless crime. Sure,

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: we should. I don't know if

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I have Okay. Okay. Thank you.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Any other questions for Tim?

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. You might be just kind of revisit the language here. So we have person who's in good faith in a timely manner reports a law enforcement. The person is victim or who lives in a crime and arose. The person who's involved in prostitution or human trafficking should not resign any the rest of

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Actually, revisiting the language makes it make more sense. Thank you.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. Obviously welcome today while we move to Thanks

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: for your summary. Very helpful.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So, Lauren Hibbard is joining us,

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: and Jennifer, you're welcome to come up this row.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Thank

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: you. I'll take this chair.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Do you wanna swap them in this?

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Oh, okay. Yeah. Let me do. Thank you.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Sweet things.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Welcome to you both.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Thank you so much. For the record, Lauren Keppert, deputy secretary of state.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: And Jen Collamore, director of

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: the office of professional regulation. Hello. We understand that you all have about half an hour. So we'll skip the overview since you know us well. It isn't our written testimony for anyone who's watching online or has questions about what we do at OPR. We are very proud of that work. So

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Do y'all want the hard copies? Because I thought I love this very,

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: I know some people could do a ditching like that. So I'm gonna go over the general OPR provisions. Jen's gonna go over the specific profession provisions. And then as always happens, since this bill moved through the house process, we have some additional revisions and asks of this committee. So I don't suspect that we'll cut yet to those. They are in this testimony, but I am hopeful that someone, the committee, will authorize us to work with legislative council to make some additional changes. And maybe if we're going through, we can talk about that. The concept of rescission of a license is really this again, it's this administrative authority in very specific instances. This is when a license is issued in error or it's issued on something that is no longer true or factual is another way to think about it. So we're adding that authority. We also in the duties of the office, this is section one, We are very excited to be contemplating and planning to view an alternative to discipline program. This currently is only in nursing. This is for cases that there is a problem, but it may not warrant public prosecution, and we wanna provide support outside of the disciplinary process. So these are cases that right now may be screened out or may just end in a warning or a reprimand, And instead of doing that large laborious process, we would put somebody into the alternatives for discipline program. That's one track. And then another track is for professionals who are struggling with substance abuse before it becomes an impact on their practice. We do support nurses who are struggling with substance abuse in our alternatives program. It is very successful because it provides just a little structure and accountability. It's outside of the court system, it's outside of the employer, it's outside of our disciplinary process, but it does provide that structure that some people need, and that would be something that they would voluntarily enter. Section two is our rescission hearing authority. Section three, that is our rescission process. Again, limited. So administrative mistakes, we don't like to make mistakes, but sometimes we do. A payment method has been returned, so insufficient funds, that happens quite a bit. That happens right now. We give people time to pay, and we would continue to do that. But if somebody doesn't submit a payment after a certain period of time, then we need to take the credential away. And right now, we don't have a great mechanism to do so. Or when a national license compact is no longer binding and a licensee never got a Vermont license to practice on. So someone could have a multistate license. Their state their primary state is, let's say, South Carolina. I don't know whether South Carolina which profession we're talking about. But South Carolina takes away the the primary state license. We had Vermont authorization that was built on South Carolina. So if we don't have that as our foundation, we need to be able to take away the Vermont layer. This would, again, is outside of the disciplinary process.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: Is there anything else you

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: can do?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: In instances like that, and I think that currently the only sort of up and running in function compact is the nursing compact. We actually have quite a few now. Yeah. Well, I know we put a bunch in motion,

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: but I think that's the only one. I'm gonna look to to Jen to help me, but I believe we have positions. We have the osteopathic physician compact. Have the nursing compact. We have The counseling compact,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: but that's not active at this point. We're not issuing those credentials. Physical therapists.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Those that's active. That's active.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Is helpful. I'm wondering how how do you know if the South Carolina license was revoked? Like, what does that look like? Are you monitoring

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: them all? We get notifications done. Okay. There's the IT

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: programs behind all of the contracts that send notifications to the states. That's part of the structure. Okay. Yeah. I just, I was envisioning, like, cannot actively monitor everybody every day. That would be too. It would be impossible, yeah. And as legislative council mentioned, there are two layers of due process. One is if the credential has been issued for less than thirty days, that comes back to constitutional law, have less of a property right. If it's been issued for more than thirty days, there's more due process required on office, which really less than thirty days, you provide notice, you rescind, you provide notice to the licensee, and then they can seek review and are given appeal rights. That's it's rescinded before the licensee receives notice. Option two is we have to provide advance notice, and we're we're give time for the licensee to request a hearing before a board or administrative law office service is not a board's profession. And then if there's no hearing requested, then there's no appeal rights. But if there is a hearing requested, then there

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: is a appeal rights. So

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: that is just another way for us to streamline these administrative problems with the license. As legislative council said, section four is removing a double negative. That section of the law has provided a lot of confusion for our health care facilities who are all required to report on a mandatory basis if someone within their facility is suspected of unprofessional conduct that changes their authorization to work through the facility, meaning they're removed from the floor, they're put on probation, they're put on suspension, they're fired. That's a mandatory report to Us. Section five is the attempt to fraudulently procure. If we catch them and don't allow for the procurement of the license, it was more challenging to prosecute them for attempting to fraudulently procure a license. And this is part of our duty to sister states because if someone is attempting to fraudulently procure a license from us, they're probably attempting to procure a license from another state as well. And the denial of a license is not public because we found that the document was false, but this would allow us to prosecute them and then have that be held. Yes. We want to make sure that everyone is the age of majority who serves on our boards and advisers. We I don't believe had we haven't had someone who has wanted to, who has been a fund of. We have.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: We have. Sorry, we had a situation where there was a public member opening on a board, and there was a high school student who wanted to serve on the board, and we really didn't have statutory I mean, we like having the statutory authority to be able to say, You've got to be 18 to serve on

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: a board. The rationale there is really just the seriousness of the nature of the cases that are heard and also the complication. These are complicated questions that come before boards. They're making decisions. They're doing rulemaking. And in almost every single one of our professions, they're hearing about people's substance abuse, sexual misconduct, other misconduct, and also reviewing college transcripts. It's just, it's very complicated work. Very important.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Ted, I'm trying to understand what fraudulent procurement Deceptive, I understand, but how does When does that Are you lying about your background?

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Are you You create a fake diploma or fake transcript. You alter your certificate of good standing from another state. You never went to nursing school at all. These are all things that we have seen.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: You use someone else's name. You use your mother's name, and she used to be a nurse, and you'd use her name. Oh, nice. There's quite

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: a gamut. And then the last section is just cleanup from work that we did around the licensure denial process. We skipped a section that year that we should have removed preliminary from the language. This is statutory cleanup from previous year's actions. And with that, I'm gonna turn it over to Jen to talk to you about accountants.

[Jennifer (Jen) Collamore (Director, Office of Professional Regulation)]: Great. Thank you. So title 26, there's a national movement to make accountants CPAs more mobile. Apparently, there's a significant workforce shortage in that profession. Rather than a technical compact, CPAs do and are getting mobility between states even if they don't have a license issued by the state. These provisions are really intended to increase CPA mobility. You'll see in Section nine, that's going to reduce barriers and open up additional licensing pathways for certified public accountants. These changes allow licensure for individuals with a post bachelor's degree with focus in accounting plus one year of experience, or a bachelor's degree with focus in accounting and two years of experience to become licensed. Previously, was a more limited pathway of 150 college credits. Individuals stopped to take and pass the CPA exam and the language in B was removed because the two additional pathways provide the qualifications required, so there's no longer a need for the board to exercise its discretion and allows other folks in. The next section, section 10, which is 26 BSA 74 C, the changes in this section focus on bringing Vermont mobility requirements aligned with national efforts to increase mobility for CPAs, and it allows Vermont to recognize a CPA from another state without them having to get a license in Vermont. Nice. As long as they meet these substantially equivalent educational requirements in Vermont, that they've passed the CPA exam, they can practice in Vermont. CPAs are licensed to protect the public. How do we protect, if they're not licensed in Vermont, how are we monitoring and protecting the public? So, it's the definition of licensure. There's a very general definition, and that can be any one of the credentials, the certification, the registration, or a license. It can also mean the privilege to practice in the state under any authority. For example, during COVID times, there was an emergency action that the governor did to allow healthcare professionals to come in and practice. They did not have a Vermont license, but if they came to Vermont and practiced, we could discipline them and remove their privilege to practice under that emergency order. Here, if a CPA is practicing in the state of Vermont, as we get a complaint about them, then we can still remove their privilege to practice that's granted under this section.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Okay. I guess I'm just wondering, we went through all the work to do all of these different compacts to be able to hold professionals accountable. Why wouldn't we have just done this if we can just say, yeah, it's fine. You can just come practice here.

[Jennifer (Jen) Collamore (Director, Office of Professional Regulation)]: You don't need a Vermont license. Yeah. And I don't know I don't know why CPAs are different and why the mobility efforts have not come about as the result of a compact. I'm really not sure about that.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: They just chose a different strategy. But in in in reality, this is very similar to the nurse compact, where a nurse Mhmm. Is licensed in Connecticut, and he can come work at UVM. Never contact OPR at all. We don't know that that nurse is working here. That nurse can work under his Connecticut license at at UVM. But if something goes wrong and he begins diverting, then UVM is required to report to us, and we remove his ability. We have authority under the compact, and this gives us authority against a CPA who would do something on another state license to investigate that person and prosecute that person and remove their ability to practice here, and that would be reported to their home state as well.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Do you have any thoughts of the financial impact? Because my understanding, like, with the nurses' compact, is that requires additional work, clinical care, that we're not really compensated for by the other sending state.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: I don't believe that there was a financial assessment of that on house side. We may be able to assess that here on this side. Okay. Well, thank you.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: So, there's some

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: pretty big accounting firms out there in the world, And I'm just thinking of a big one, say, the Midwest that really wants to go into. And so they're not gonna need a license. You can allow them in somehow or are they gonna all of them are gonna be required. What if they wanna just flood it in here? Each and every one of those individuals are gonna need a license from OPR. We

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: license the firm itself. So we would know about the firm, but the people who work within the firm perhaps would not need the license.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: No

[Jennifer (Jen) Collamore (Director, Office of Professional Regulation)]: reflection. How many out of, I mean, kind of people have insurance, Terry had some insurance from all over the world. Do we license everyone else's practice in Vermont?

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: No. CPAs are certified public accountant, and there's there's a certain subset of them that

[Jennifer (Jen) Collamore (Director, Office of Professional Regulation)]: That work here in Vermont if they

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: work in

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Or even within that specific definition. Like, our tax professionals laid, like, usually are not CPAs. Some of us choose to hire CPAs, but they there's there's a whole gamut of financial services that's offered in the state, in any state, and CPAs are very specific subset of accounts. Okay.

[Jennifer (Jen) Collamore (Director, Office of Professional Regulation)]: So In section 10, subsection G, there's a legacy pathway for folks from other states who have been able to practice in Vermont, but that might no longer be able to under the current requirements. That legacy pathway is just preserved so that folks who have been able to practice in Vermont up to twelve thirty, one twenty four, but who don't qualify under current requirements are are still able to practice in Vermont. Just maintaining that legacy pathway.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: If I can just come back to the mobility just for one second. Sure. I just wanna clarify that this has been an authorization in the accountancy statutes for quite some time. The statute used to refer to substantial equivalency, and we are asking for it to be changed to mobility, but the statute used to say, and I'm on page 10, line 19, an individual whose principal place of business is not in this state shall be presumed to have qualifications substantially equivalent to this state's requirements, and shall have the privileges of licensure in this state without the need to obtain a license under section 72 b of this title. So we're not changing this concept that's been in accountancy. So there's no change except for that we are updating the concept of what it means to be substantially equivalent and outlining that in this section that is exactly the way the requirements are. So we are taking out the word substantially equivalent and putting the new requirements in that we are, asking the legislature to approve. And nationally, mobility is the term that, other states use, rather than substantial equivalency. So we're just trying to come in line with other states.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: The privilege to practice, even if you don't meet the current requirements, is that something we offer to Vermont CPAs?

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: They already are because they were licensed to practice before.

[Jennifer (Jen) Collamore (Director, Office of Professional Regulation)]: They're from us. These are It's for individuals from other states who already had the privilege to practice in Vermont. There was a pathway already in the law that allowed them to practice here, and so we're just maintaining that pathway for folks who relied upon that and had it as of a certain date. Okay. I guess my question is, does that same privilege apply to people who are licensed in Vermont if they no longer because we have changed the laws, they no longer meet those requirements? They will continue to have their license. Okay. So we didn't the folks who We've removed barriers and reduced requirements, so folks who were licensed in Vermont had 150 credits and had passed the CPA exam. The bar was here. We've created some pathways that were less than that. It really wouldn't impact Vermont licensees in that way. Moving on to dentists. You'll see in section 11, we're creating a limited academic dental license. That credential is going to allow dentists from other jurisdictions who are working as full time dental faculty at an accredited teaching facility and these folks are working under the general supervision of a Vermont licensed dentist. They can practice in a clinic that's associated with the dental school. This is similar to what, I believe, a credential that's offered to medical doctors faculty in the state. We're just trying to allow these practitioners to come in, work without having to get a full Vermont dentist license, and again, they're working in a clinic that offers free or reduced fee services for folks as part of teaching in the dental school. That's this new limited academic dental license. Because they're working in a clinic that offers fee and reduced service, free and reduced fee services, we made the determination that the fee could be waived. It could be zero for that, which is consistent with other practitioners who are working in free and reduced fee clinics. Subsection C, it prohibits the limited license holders from getting a specialty in anesthesia and sedation. Those specialties are laid out in the administrative rules, but because we don't have time to do rule making and kind of say that these limited practitioners can't have those specialties, we just included that prohibition in the statute. It limits the scope of what they're allowed to do in a dental clinic, and they can practice under the supervision of a Vermont licensed dentist.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: This is really big news for Vermont, really exciting to have a dental school looks like it's going to open. I think it's planned to open in 2028. We have a shortage of dentists in this state, and our dental population is moving on to retirement. And so any time that we have the ability to create more dentists in the state,

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: very, very exciting.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So It it is. And because we let dental therapy kinda go. No. It's sad. I went for it.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Well, we we created it, but they didn't We created it, and they Yeah. Okay. We built a structure, but

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: it didn't they didn't have any. Oh, and it's been caused this. And just so the dental school who's taking on the dental school? The Vermont State University? It's Detroit Mercy.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: It's a branch of

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Detroit Mercy. Yeah, the more they operate. They must be operating at some umbrella. I think it's

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: just a satellite location of a dental school that is in Detroit.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And where will it be in Vermont, in Burland?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Rutland or Springfield, we held. This is Emily Garr, John Morley Castle. Oh.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: It was taking over a building already vacant in Colchester, We don't

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: need it in Colchester, we need it in Springfield, right? Okay. Oh, why don't they ever

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: I don't sound like a conversation or anything that. So,

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: should always stop. I love that we're gonna go to dental school. I love that we're gonna train more dentists, but I guess if you're gonna live and work full time in Vermont as a dentist, why wouldn't you need a Vermont dentist license? And I do support thinking about, you know, the things. I just, it concerns me when we're saying this person isn't gonna have the same oversight because they're in a clinic working with poor people. Yeah. I think

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: that concern is fair. Are, this is a way for, there's people who specialize in training dentists, and many of them are foreign trained. Some of them are trained within the country. Their qualifications look a bit different than the standard pathways for Vermont dentistry, so this is a way to be able to get them in the door quickly. This was an ask of the dental school. This is a pathway that other dentists, other states have for dental faculty, and all of it is under the supervision of our Vermont dentists who will be watching and ensuring quality. We will still have jurisdiction over the conduct that occurs there. This does not exempt them from our oversight. In fact, we're issuing them a credential, and we will be able to accept complaints and handle anything that could happen. But this is really a way for my understanding, you should hear from the dental association, I would recommend that you do, and perhaps the dental school. You can ask them about Rutland. But this is a way to expedite, particularly foreign trained dentists who specialize in teaching dentists. Okay.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I appreciate that. And I guess I would hope to see some, like we've done with other professions, some sort of time limit on how long they can not have the license to give them you know, to expedite and give them the chance to get the license we have in state. It it just it gives it it just gives me Absolutely. Yeah. And it gives me pause that we're now creating multiple different things where we are providing oversight to professions that are not paying into our system at all. Like, that also really concerns me, knowing

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: the

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: state of the budget. That concerns me given what we know about your finances. Yeah. And it does make sense that it would be a path to something.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Right. Rather than just an indefinite. I think-

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: But the other thing is they're doing something different. They're not practicing dentistry. They are. No, they're teaching Well,

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: they're they're you teach. It's you teach through practice on a human's feet.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: But the scope of practice is different than the fully licensed dentist. Right.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: K. It's not

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: But it's like a dictationist. Competition ophthalmologist.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: But they still have to get a license And

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: they don't have a license.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: They would they have a license in another jurisdiction, and they're going to get a license here with us. Yeah. But it is a zero fee license. And that's That's, I think, our concern.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: I guess I'm not concerned. I I appreciate your reflection on it, but I'm not concerned because we need them to be here training people so badly.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Well, and and maybe we do it

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: for a few years. Maybe we have a sunset on the zero part.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: And and as Doctor. Collam did say, there are other pathways in dentistry where if you are doing pro bono work, you do not need to pay a fee. That is a model with a lot of our professions. And this was at the request of the dental school to expedite these licensure pathways so that people didn't have to go back and do additional training in order to come be faculty here.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: So, does it make any sense to sunset that part at the point?

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: I think I don't wanna answer that on the slide, so let me Okay. I'll take

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: a chat. Yeah. I mean, I think this is also part of

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: a broader conversation about how we think more broadly about qualify someone. We have a very western focused, very specific, like, the and because we have this happen with physicians all the time. We have many physicians who have come to this country being trained in another country who now work as a janitor at the hospital they can't get a license here.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Correct. And that and that's something that we've really been working on at LPR. Dentistry is one of our professions that candidly has done the hardest in our conversations. Right now, if you're a foreign trained dentist and you wanna come into Vermont to be licensed, you have to do a postgraduate program. That this is what we're trying to circumvent, and we can talk more about it. But if you want a full dentistry license in Vermont and you were foreign trained, the skills may be the same that you were taught, but you have to get this postgraduate degree in The States in order to get a license here. That has been a discussion that we've really been working on with the dentist community. On hold, they really support more Lawrence trained dentists, but they want this surety of the postgraduate program, this would allow that person who's born and trained to not have to go get that postgraduate program and be able to teach in the dental.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Is there any type of evaluation of if the skill set is in fact?

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Well, very confident that the dental school is doing that. But I know that OPIARA will be looking at, again, this is really us looking at, is this person qualified to do what they are doing? And not, again, not the full dentistry style of practice because they're not gonna be sedating people. They're not gonna be doing anesthesia. There's limited subsections of procedures that they're gonna be doing. But I really think you should hear from the dentist.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: We also expect that there's going to be less than 20 of these practitioners in the state. So, the physical impacts are.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Yeah. Guess the only to add to maybe your concern on a slightly different level is I would hope that the dentist school would be hiring in state dentists as much as possible rather than Well, if they if they assist and if they want to do this,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: we had this hit this challenge with nursing where they we had to create a whole concept to get people to come and teach nursing because not enough nurses that was sliding back in pain.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: Oh, yeah. There were all

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: sorts of other reasons why people didn't wanna tease. Yes.

[Senator John Morley III (Clerk)]: I guess I was trying to add to maybe the other side of the argument for fairness. Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We've managed to- As usual. Only get halfway through 10 sections.

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: Yeah. Can

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: we have you guys come back?

[Rep. Kate Newtons (House sponsor, OPR bill)]: We'd love to. And we'd

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: love to. So we'll do sections 13 through 20 or 19 column path. That'll work. Maybe our you available Thursday or Friday?

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Yes. I'm sure we can make it. Okay.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: We'll be here.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: If you just wanna contact Lynn and work out

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: a time. Yeah. They're so passable.

[Lauren Hibbert (Deputy Secretary of State)]: Do you mind if we do that too? Thank you.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Yeah. We will. It's 75.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Thanks,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Chittenden. Jen. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thank so much. Thank you. It's always a pleasure having the OPR bill.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Well, not always a pleasure, but mostly, we'll always be happy

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: to here. Why don't we take a five minute break, and we're going to talk about the reporting requirements in the next segment.

[Tim Dutland (Legislative Counsel)]: So we'll be

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: back