Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Welcome back to the Senate Committee on Government Operations Committee meeting on Friday, 02/06/2026. We're gonna take up our final item of the day, which is S-two 91, and it was sponsored by Senator Tanya Vyhovsky of the Chittenden Central District. And so I'll give her just a couple minutes to run through the bill and explain what it is and why she wants us to take it up.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Yes, absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I sponsored this bill, which is a disclosure requirement for sort of official travel undertaken by members of some members of the executive branch and our elected officials. I wanna be clear. This is not a prohibition on that travel. What it would require if someone is taking a trip because of their role, you know, they were asked to come speak at something because they're a senator or because they're the governor, and it's not paid for by the state of Vermont, that there would be a requirement to disclose who paid for it, what the purpose of the trip was, and where you went. This, to me, is a common sense way of building transparency and trust And just, you know, like I said, it's a disclosure, not a prohibition. That would be really problematic if we prohibited this type of travel. And it is based off of language that exists in other states. If I remember, there's my opinionated dog that I promised you. A lot of the language in this was crafted on language in Connecticut and Massachusetts, and those are existing disclosure requirements for this type of travel. You would not have to disclose if you took a vacation with your family. You know, I've certainly not. It would simply be those things that you go to because you are in the role that you're in. And I will let Tim walk through the details, and I'm happy to answer any questions if there are any.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And again, just in deference to Senator Vyhovsky's issues at the moment. If someone has a question, now would be the time, and I'm gonna let her go and have it now.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: I just want Yes. I I wanted to say how grateful I am to you for bringing this up. This summer kinda called the question a little bit on this. Yeah. But we have a lot of trips that legislators go on that are not that are not required to be reported. And I I I just I think this helps people appreciate both who is interested in in getting our attention and how that does translate over time in what one introduces or doesn't introduce and what one I mean, you know, so anyway, I'm just really I think this is a good bill at at at a good bond. So thank you.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Senator White.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: Yeah. I also really appreciate the introduction to this bill because I think there's been, like, a gray area where folks don't necessarily know what.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: That's fair.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: And so I guess I just have one general question, which is I traveled this summer to The United Kingdom for a wedding. But then while I was there, I happened to also visit parliament and get invited there because I was a state senator from Vermont. So I guess I'm wondering in in that way, if you were traveling somewhere that then you were invited to like, the the purpose of the trip was not that event. Mhmm. But I'm just wondering how you envision that. Or let's say you went to Ukraine, for example.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: And then Yeah. Think some of it depends on who's paying for it because you paid for the trip. Well, that's why I was wondering what and I, Tanya, did you have a thought about that? It's included in the bill. Yeah. Okay, great. Let's, that's right.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: I think legislative council can help navigate that. And I certainly have taken trips like that as well where, you know, I'm on a vacation and the opportunity arises. But I think we can address that in the bill. I think some people will probably on the side of reporting more versus reporting less and other people might go in the other direction. But I will let counsel go through the bill and see if it addresses that question, my sort of thoughts. And this is just me speaking personally. I'm actually someone who travels a fair bit because of my role as a senator. So I think that it is very clearly not, you know, a prohibition. I would not want to stop doing that. I think it's powerful to build international connection and solidarity and domestic connection and solidarity. I personally would probably on the side of like reporting that one piece and anything that was paid for for that one piece, you know, but I will let legislative council sort of talk to how the bill addresses that. And I think there is, in many ways, kind of a threshold. The, you know, was it a half and half thing? Was it a one off? Was it a vacation where something popped up and I had an opportunity? I think there's a lot of different ways to navigate that, but I'm gonna let our lawyer sort of legally negotiate that with us.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay, great. Well, are released should you care to take advantage of that opportunity. You don't have to, you can obviously stay by.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Great. Thank you very much for having me, committee members. For the record, my name is Tim Dubbins, Legislative Counsel. Just a brief answer. Yes. We'll get into one. A few Yes, of all those questions. Sorry. In instances of mixed or hybrid travel, this would be captured disclosure. In A few initial notes here. This does not prohibit travel of any kind, and it does not change the definition of what is a gift. Just to keep that in mind as we believe it is. So, again, you have s two ninety one, an act related to travel disclosures for legislators and certain executive officers. Those executive officers are, this is in the, ethics provisions under title three, and which actually defines executive officers state officers. And what this bill means is the governor, lieutenant governor, treasurer, secretary, state auditor, and the attorney general. So first section, will create three VSA twelve fourteen travel disclosures, starts out a week, applicability, exactly who and what is covered here. Under subdivision a one, we see that a member of the general assembly or an executive office, such as BattleBob, shall file with the state ethics commission, so that's who's gonna be referred to, or as otherwise directed by Mohammad Chittenden, who is elsewhere with the. And disclosing her detailed costs and associated information, we'll get into more detail alone, for any travel made in accordance with the members or the executive officers, one, official capacity, or two, that would not have likely occurred but for the members or executive officers' status of occupying the members or executive officers' office. So it's good to just pause there and reflect for a moment that this is beyond, you know, something that would be done in common part of your duties or executors sorry, executives' duties, but it would really be what you're describing before, as a matter of you holding this office, you were invited to whatever that might be, because you're a stuntman or proponent or the auditor, whatever that may be. So, two, notwithstanding subdivision one, we have here an exception, a member of the general assembly or the executive officer shall not need to file a disclosure if the travel is fully paid by the member, or that is what the executive officer indicated or is fully paid by a state, another state, or the federal government. Certainly, US governmental entities. If those are footing the bill or if the individual is footing the bill themselves, there's no need to disclose. So then we have, let's see, we go into B, contents and design disclosure. So what needs to be disclosed is actually creating a form. B1 reads, A member of the General Assembly or Executive Officer shall disclose in writing, A, the purpose of the travel, B, whether the travel was purely in the members or executive officers official capacity or made for another purpose, C, the itinerary in the travel, including dates of travel and any stopover or potential visit to another location prior to the destination of travel. And D, with reasonable particularity, any expense, payment, or reimbursement received were all costs associated with transportation to and from any destination and food, refreshments, tickets, admissions, entertainment, lodging, and anything else of value, whether for cost or in kind associated with that travel. It's a lot better. Then e, containing any list of things that you need to disclose, the date of any expense payment or reimbursement, and, Adam, which elements of the associated travel costs were orchestrated or paid for by Roman Act. One, the stat sorry, the state. Two, the member or the members, executive officers, own person. Or three, any other source, including associations, lobbyists, political committees, and parties, and individuals. Back to your question, Senator White, we have here contemplation of the scenario of mixed funding or travel, or just mixed things, a situation where a member is

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: can use it. I go to I went to The United Kingdom for a wedding. I was invited to parliament. I attended the evening event. They paid for my food at the evening event. They didn't pay for my ticket to The UK. They didn't pay for my travel to the parliament. Or for your hotel. Or for my hotel. So my understanding would be I would just have to disclose the meal or like the

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: You would have to disclose more Okay. Than you'd let's see. You have to identify which elements, and I think if certain elements were paid wholly by a person, you're gonna have to,

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: well. Actually, you just have to disclose the mail, it sounds like.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: Well, don't know, it might be slightly.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Versus the, actually, I have to think a little bit more about that, whether you would actually have to see, you know, the dollar item for everything that you paid for yourself versus, you know, the state would also, let me think about that a little bit more. Yeah. And And certainly for any sources that, you know, weren't the state, weren't federal government, weren't your own, essentially this f three here, any other sources, so associations, political committees, parties, and individuals, they would have to be identified, really, the costs described in particular detail. Yes, Shannon.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: So just another question that has come up. When I like to travel internationally for anything, I tend to like to bring my spouse. And we went to the international Conference around Biodiversity, and that was fully paid for because I'm a state senator and I was a delegate representing Vermont. But they also compensated me for part of my husband's travel as well. How would this would I have to it doesn't say anything about spouse or staff or anything. So my assumption is I would only have to disclose what I and I and I don't I I would feel that I probably shhh. My

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: guess is that's something we should address is when we take this up.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: Because I do think Okay. Thank you.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Right. It is largely silent on that point right now. Although some of these are kind of broadly worded so that certain elements would be swept in, you know, and just maybe the nature of the documentation, like if it's a plane ticket with two different people's names, so I'm going to state by some third party, you'd have to

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: You always do.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Or it would probably show up out there, should

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: say. Although,

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: I should clarify that actually these disclosures, let's see, I don't think they actually require substantiated documentation. It's just, sorry. Let me look at this a little more, because I might contradict myself there, and I may wind up doing so a little bit. Sorry. I'll go through with that. So now Two. On page three two. The federal assembly works. The executive officer, Washington, test in the veracity and completeness of the disclosure information signed and the date of disclosure. So that's attestation signature required. Confirming that, you know, you know, being forecourt and completing your disclosure. Everything's accurate. Then three here, we have forms to be, where appropriate, designed by the state ethics commissioner. Sorry.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: They usually cut the strings.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: That makes sense.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: So,

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: yes, so just taking a quick second look at the words on the page here. I don't believe there's any requirement to supplement the disclosure with documentation.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: Yeah, looks like you just have

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: to tell your itinerary, which I guess is probably easiest to do with documentation, but you could just write out where you went. Yep.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: So moving on to filing times. So the filing date is described in section C here, at the bottom of page three. Member of the General Assembly or the Executive Office the National will file a disclosure within thirty days, it's calendar days, following the date on which any costs associated with the travel are incurred. So that could capture buying plane tickets ahead of time, so actually before travel occurs here. But, yeah, I think it's silent as to recording on a rolling basis, but essentially, if anything, if is if we're destroying travel and then going on the travel, then at the thirty day, may require either supplementing or reporting multiple times. Okay. So because you incur the cost of flying you know, some of guys say flying to get sixty days in advance, but then all the other, you know, meals and launching things sort of being burst after travel. And you still have to, this contemplates a thirty day timer essentially at any cost. Okay. So, but it could also allow for grouping, just depends on what things you're causing. Senator White?

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: What about the situation where you I'm not getting a payment or reimbursed for something, but I'm basically having something waived? So like NCEL, the National Caucus of Environmental Legislators, because I'm a young person, they've traditionally waived the fee that I have to pay to attend the conference.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Oh, that's good. And you would So still be receiving something about it. Yeah. And also, there's contemplative, in conflict.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: Okay, so that would be considered It in

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: could be, but it's still in value, so it'd fall under B1, page two. Okay. Do you have Senator Clarkson? So tickets to the missions either way.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: Okay. Makes sense.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: So that is a good point because often that happens on the executive committee and CSG here, whatever they're all interpreting. My question for you is with the ethics commit commission and the capacity for them to deal deal with this. I think this is a perfect place for them to be doing this. This is good. I don't know why you wouldn't file it with our own legislative office, you know, Scott Moore, who oversees our pay and our you know, why why we wouldn't file that there and have the ethics commission then review it maybe. But You could. Anyway, I just think we until we have capacity and I'm hoping that after this session, the ethics commission will have more capacity. But until they do, it this is putting an additional burden on on them of a 180 legislators plus the the executive officers.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: It just says we have to file it. It doesn't say they have to do it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: Well, that's true. But one would hope they would review it.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. So

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Anyway The last provision is just in my view of potential conflict of interest.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Yes. Yeah. So we're back to the bill. Exactly, so supplemental disclosures are required if basically some person or entity paying for traffic has occurred if a particular matter involved in that being called in person, entity comes up for the business of the committee of the executive, the member of the executive, then during the six months following the cost being incurred, then there needs to be a supplementary disclosure.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: Thanks. Okay. Yes, I senator. I hope we take this up, and I think this is a good, as I said, a good bill for this moment. And 6,000 give you ideas for Senator White.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: Yeah. I completely agree, Senator Clarkson. I would really appreciate us taking up this bill, not necessarily as a I I do have some specific commentary about the trip where representatives went to Israel, and it was paid for by the Israeli government. I definitely had concerns about that. I also have taken trips that have supported Taiwanese government.

[Senator Alison Clarkson]: Well, they've been paid for by Yeah. Exactly. We're on the same trip.

[Senator Rebecca "Becca" White]: Yeah. So I I also think that that you know, what however people feel about either of those scenarios, I think it's important that there's transparency, especially when it is a foreign government.

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: Okay. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Have a good weekend. Thank you. You too. Let me just again reiterate, I'm doing my best to at least take off your wall for purposes of running through a bill. We appreciate it. There are bills that, in my view, probably won't be taken any further, but we'll see whether this falls in that bucket or not. I wanna go over next week's agenda Yeah. Which we did finish, although We have a draft update. It's already posted online. Oh, it is. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to include actually, you know what? We're we're doing a schedule thing. I don't

[Tim Dubbins (Legislative Counsel)]: think

[Senator Brian Collamore (Chair)]: we