Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Good

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: afternoon, and welcome to the Senate Committee on Government Operations meeting, Wednesday, 01/28/2026. A couple of items today, the first one of which is to hear testimony from Shelley Martin, who's president of the Vermont Retired State Employees Association, and her request to amend the makeup of the RECY, which is the Retired Employee Committee on Insurance. Let's just jump around, well, not literally, but walk around the table and introduce ourselves. John Morley, Orleans District.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: New, but let's just I'm from Orleans.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Welcome. Glad you're here.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Member)]: Thank you. Alison Clarkson, Windsor District. Brian Collamore from the Rutland District.

[Lynn Jacharauskas (Committee Assistant)]: Lynn Jacharauskas, committee assistant.

[Sen. Tanya Vyhovsky (Vice Chair)]: Tanya Vyhovsky, and then the Central District,

[Sen. Rebecca “Becca” White (Member)]: and Becca White, also Windsor District.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: So welcome in, Shelley, and the Okay, floor is

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: thank you for having me, I really appreciate it. The statute currently that is the recce statute does not include the RSEA. It only includes VSEA. And I would like to explain what we're looking for and a little bit of the history and who we are. I know some of you are new, so. The Remote Retired State Employees Association represents 8,200, approximately 8,200 retirees and their beneficiaries similar to AARP. Whether they're dues paying or not, we still represent them and provide them with information and we always welcome them to join us. So, we do represent a large group of people. Last year the high point of reduced payers we had 3,300. Some of them did not renew or the numbers went down, but we still communicate with those 3,300 and keep them informed as if they reduced pain. We had our board meeting this month and discovered that the number of members that we currently have is more than we had at this time last year, so we are continuing to grow. Our board is really interesting because we didn't really plan it, but we have a board that is almost fiftyfifty non management and management when they were working as state employees were exempt and non exempt. Of the ones that are non management, we have two of them that are members of VSCA retirement chapter and we also have members that have never been involved with the union at all. We break to the board a lot of information from diverse areas because of that, and we have a veteran, a past veteran, well he's still a veteran, and we have a past representative from our own congress that's on our board. So, we we are able to work together as equals because as retirees, we don't care. We are entitled with us. But we do bring education and knowledge from the positions we held before. So, it makes our board very interesting and it's nice that we can work as a team without any prejudice whatsoever as to what our positions were before. The Recce Committee itself focuses on retired employees' insurance. And it is only an advisory committee. And it's an opportunity for us to hear from the state what's happening with insurance and also for them to hear from the retirees any any issues they might have with insurance or questions. So, it's a two way street as far as advisory. And currently, well, to see the history, when it was created, when the statute was created, VRSEA did not exist. And VRSEA used to be part of the union. And, that's why it has VSEA in it. And, the union president, President Williams, had recognized that a huge part of retirees was not being represented because you had to be a member of the union to be on the retiree association, the the chapter, I guess. And so she was the one that was the catalyst that had us leave the SEA and create our own statute and our own organization.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And you anticipated my first question. Why is it that you're not just part of the SEA even though you're retired? So is it two separate bargaining units or is it

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: We don't bargain.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: You don't?

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: VSEA on the committee, currently, they have VSEA on the recce committee.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: They are really important to stay on the committee because they bargain insurance for active state employees, and we as retirees mirror what they get.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: So, it's really important that they stay on it, but we would like it amended to include us as the three other people and have the recce committee consist of three VSEA and three VR SEA so that we are represented since we have a larger group of people that we're representing. And we're focused only on retirees. The union is focused on mostly active, you know, labor issues. But, that's why we wanted to be on named on the committee and not by appointment. Because we're by appoint yes? No.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: You're just at the moment, there are just three

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: of you on this committee. Well, at

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: the moment. But last but the Recce Committee is supposed to be two times a year. And when you're appointed, you're appointed for a two year term. Because last appointment, our recommended we sent a letter to the secretary of administration, excuse me, recommending the three people we want on the committee. She did not take all of our recommendations and only took two people and then appointed one from the state herself. So because to call a meeting, you have to have three people, we could not call a meeting for two years. Mhmm. So, didn't meet. And I don't know the reasoning why, but they didn't. And the three union members who could have called a meeting didn't. And we don't have an official committee on our benefits with the state. So, we used to be a part of the benefits advisory committee in the union that has been created for the union to work with the state to be advised on any issues with benefits. We no longer are on that committee. So, the retirees don't have any idea or way to be advised on our insurance if anything's changing or not. A few years ago when they wanted to change our Medicare Advantage, we didn't even know about it because we did not get notified. We heard through the grapevine and that's the only way we found out that they were trying to change our insurance. If we would have had meetings with the advisory committee for REC, we would know that this was what they were going to be proposing. So, we're completely out of the loop. And it's understandable if we weren't even in existence when the statute was created. We would When? I don't know exactly when it was created. Do you know it was created?

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Mid to late eighties. You could just identify yourself. My name is Charlie Dickerson. I'm on the board of Vermont, retired Okay. And employees association. The statute was somewhere in 8687. It was just maybe a couple of years or a year after the state and the union created the benefits advisory committee. And the RICI statute itself was to allow representatives from appointed by administration and by the FDA to discuss insurance relative to retired employees. And that predated the statute that created this organization by maybe four or five years. What does Rutland stand for?

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: The Retired Employees Committee on Insurance.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: Oh, okay. Sorry. I don't

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: see it. Yeah, no, it's the re

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: It's under the question.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: And because we've worked really hard, VR SEA has worked really hard to have a good relationship with the HR agency. We are able now, when I ask them for three members to recognize the administration appointed three members. But the administration changes. We have a secretary of the administration maybe a couple years or longer and suddenly we have a new one. So, if they don't know who we are and they don't understand why we're requesting to be on the committee, we could be off the committee and then still be uninformed. And this way, if we're actually named like VSEA is named and has the RSEA, we would not have to be appointed and we would be able to call meetings every two twice a year.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And would those meetings include the other three members from the VSEA too? Okay.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Right.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And I don't wanna mischaracterize what you're inferring. It sounds like there's a disconnect between the VSEA and your group. In other words, if you didn't know about the proposed change in insurance, somebody's not talking to somebody.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Well, the union doesn't really, they don't really need to talk to us. You know, we have management, non management, they really are all non management. So, they don't really inform us about what they're doing at all. We're not really involved. Charlie and I are both members of the retirement chapter of the union, so now I'm informed. But when this came out a couple years ago, I wasn't a member. And and I thought, well, I better, you know, be a member so I can understand. But the VSEA is completely separate from us. They're not we're not connected together at all. And when we split from the SEA, that was that was when we totally split. When I don't remember the day, but that but commissioner SDG and I went to a sunset commission meeting where they were going to dissolve, Ricky. And they had a Zoom meeting with the union, and my lobbyists were on the Zoom. And at the end of that meeting, they kept us intact. They wanted the meetings to begin again because they had stopped meeting. They weren't following the statute. And the commission guided me into saying as soon as you can have it amended and have Recy include VRSEA because there really wasn't any reason to have us when it was created, it would be more there. Okay. So that was their recommendation for the Sunset Committee was that we actually are a part of the record committee.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And I guess I'm still trying to understand this. If you had two out of the three, that's a quorum. Why why were you not able to meet?

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Because the statute clearly says three people have to request a meeting.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Oh, but there are three.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: No. There now there are.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: There's

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: two. There was only two two years ago. This is current. Oh. They just that shows that they support the administration supports us with this current administration that we've been working well together. I asked for three members. They appointed them. Two years ago, it's a two year term. Two years ago, they did not appoint three people, but only appointed two. So we were not able to meet or even request a meeting.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: Okay. Senator Rutland. So is this as simple as asking the secretary of administration to appoint three non d s c a members right now? I mean, can we rectify this without legislation?

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: No. Because, it's all at the it's all at the will of the Secretary of the Administration. So, if the Secretary of the Administration doesn't see any value in having retirees on the committee, she doesn't ever have to name us.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Okay. Is there anybody else

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: you can

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Or he. This, actually, think I'm watching. Is there a Boards and Commissions bill coming our way from the House this year?

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah, they're getting it. Right.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: So, no.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: There is? I thought there was.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: I haven't heard that there is.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: They're doing a public record still,

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. That's not

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: because I'm

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: trying to figure out what

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: the vehicle for the for a for a change like this would even be at the

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: This would be in the boards or a committee that we could add it onto our committee.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Well, right now we have filed a short form.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: In

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: the hours? The Although then maybe And we submitted it to committee.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: I think we're cheating to them today.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Go ahead, if you want. Just identify.

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: Julie Forschette, Morris Strategies. So, we've been in conversations with House Cub ops. Shelley was in there at 01:00 this afternoon. We do have a short form bill thinking that they would have more opportunity for a vehicle to bring this over to you all, and so this is one of the reasons why we're here. So when that comes through, already know what this is all about. We're happy to come in again, but yes, it's hopefully coming in from that other chamber to you all. Okay.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We don't get to see the retired employees very often here. So I would appreciate if you had like a three or four paragraph description of the differences between the two. One, I understand you don't bargain. So I'm still confused that the VSEA does your bargaining for you or you get mirrored coverage that way, but that seems to be the only connection that you have with the union. Is that

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: That is true. Oh, you're retired union members, so some

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: of you

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Well, some of us are and some of us aren't. Management is not, never could join the union. So our board has board members who could not even join the union. Right. So we're not really connected.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: You could join Chelley at the table if you like. I I'm here over

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: just wanted to comment, think, to answer your question. There's a fundamental difference between the union, which is a labor organization that collectively bargains for the bargaining units in state government, and the retirees association that advocates for retired state employees. The state employees that can be retired might include about a third of the workforce, such as judges, such as pledge counsel, such as managers, commissioners, agency secretaries, and people that are not in bargaining. When you add all those up, it's about eleven, twelve, maybe 1,300 between all three branches of government. Okay. So that we would represent their retirement interests as a retired state employee that's different than their labor interest as an active employee. With regards to insurance in Title III, there is an existing statute that health insurance that is bargained for state employees through the VSEA is maintained for the employee if they have that insurance at the time of their retirement. So you can continue your health insurance that you had as an active employee through retirement. If you don't, if you're not on the insurance plan, you're screwed because you can't get back in or if you're retiring and opt out, you can't come back in. But if you're retired with insurance, you maintain that insurance throughout your retirement. And then there's other provisions in the retirement statute vis a vis surviving spouses and so on and so forth. But that's the fundamental difference between the two organizations. We advocate for retired employees. That's different than bargaining for active bargaining unit. Who manages the benefits if it's a retired employee? The retirement office. Retirement office manages the funding. Okay. The benefits is the same insurance. I have the same insurance as a retired person that so and so might have as an active employee over in transportation or whatever needs.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: And the Agency for Human Resources has the benefits division and their benefits director works with us and active state employees on the insurance. So, the group that actually oversees the insurance and insurance issues is the Human Resources Agency. The retirement office coordinates everything together, but it's the human resources that actually helps anybody who has issues with insurance. Can call the benefits office.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Now, I'm somewhat of a curmudgeon, so I'm viewing this as a cleanup language to institutionalize the retired employees association as part of the advisory group to the administration regarding insurance for retired employees, period. Keeping in mind that that statute was created when this organization didn't exist. For whatever reason, it was not modified when this organization was codified in the statute. I have no idea why. It wasn't involved. Long time about

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Does that

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: really does

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: that really help you understand the differences? I'm

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: trying to get a gleam.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Because we don't because retirees don't work.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: I mean Oh, you do? Still.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: I have to say that today has been full of retirees who

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: are working really hard advocating for important things.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Well, officially, we don't belong to the union to work for labor issues. Right. So, the union takes care of active state employees and their labor issues. Even though they have a retiree chapter, that chapter is not in bargaining. They do not represent retirees in bargaining. I

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: just wonder if in '86 you said, sorry, 8687. 8687, I can't remember. When this was all put in statute, and again, this is me from the outside looking in trying to align things, it seems like it might have made more sense to have you still be in the VSA, but have a committee in the VSEA that would be specifically for retired employees and only with insurance.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: The problem is the bylaws for VSEA do not allow certain people into the union to be a part of anything the union does. Management does not have any ability to join the union as a member. Okay. So, if you have this committee, if you have this organization, stay in the union, you would be losing a lot of people to be represented because the union would not represent them. Yeah. That's why it broke free in the first place. Yeah.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. So this

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: is puzzled to me. So Vermont stay employees have a retirement benefit when they retire. And I just assumed everybody got a different benefit depending on their pay scale and The last time they you know, the last whatever that formula is. Last Right. Or five years of their or whatever. It it never heard to be that the retire that the retirement benefit would be also based on whether they were a union member or not. Just assume it's always based on their income.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: It does not.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: Okay.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Yeah.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: That's So then why is it a distinction without a difference in terms of retirement benefits, whether you're a union or not.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: No, the union is not even considered in your retirement. Yeah, that's what I thought. No. What you get for your retirement benefits, when you're working as a state employee, you pay into I'm very the clear on that. And then when you retire, you're separated from I mean, if I I was the president of the union, and when I retired, I am now a lifetime member of the union. Right. But I don't have to pay dues

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: as a lifetime Right. And the

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: union doesn't dictate to me what my benefits are as far as my pension or my insurance. But they negotiate

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: for me.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: But they negotiate for me in bargaining because I mirror what the state employees have.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: Got it. So that is what's interesting to me is that even though you are all retirees and you're all basically, one assumes benefiting in retirement from your last paid level. Yeah. You're also union representative. Union retired union people are also their benefits are also affected by union negotiation.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: So is the state troopers.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: So so is everybody. They're in union.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: No. But they get the same they're state employees, and they have their own union, but they still get the same insurance. It's by statute, though. Yeah. The state employees, except the general assembly. Yeah. Which,

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: by the way, is by statute.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: I I discount.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: There's an interesting history about that because about fifteen, twenty years ago, there was a statute that allowed legislators to join the state health insurance plan.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: We're trying to revive that. Good luck. And

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: eventually that statute was, what do you call them, deleted. Deleted. Because not too many people are joking.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: And if you can join the same insurance plan that we enjoy as retirees, it's really the Cadillac insurance of all insurance. Mean, really have a good plan. But, to get back to recce, we just want to be named so we're not appointed. Because if we get somebody in the administration who doesn't like us, would never get back on the recce committee, and we would not know what's going on. It's an only advisory committee. It doesn't have any weight or power or It's just a two way conversation where we can talk to them about our needs and they can talk to us about what they're thinking of doing or are doing. That's all it is. So we will

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: waive this bill from the house, it sounds like.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah. If it has a fraction over there and gets crossed. But when you meet with Matt, maybe

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: you could ask how it's got the info. Well, we Senator Vyhovsky.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Is there a bill number? Because I've I've been sifting through the house bills. I'm trying figure out what it's bill. It it's not a bill, but the rec committee itself is three VSA 636. So, but it's a short form then. No, this is all gonna

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: be statute. Right, so there was some confusion because of the treasurer's large retirement bill coming in as well. So, he was thinking that it had something do with that. So, have the language to be able to incorporate this into, if not that one, another one can force the person. We'll be folded in, submitted to Lunch Council as far as I'm pretty sure, but we don't have a bill number yet, but once that does, we're able to incorporate it into

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: And the RICI statute number is three BSA six thirty six, if you wanna see it in its entirety. And what we are asking as an amendment to this is section A, we would like it to say the committee count shall consist of seven members, three to be selected by the Vermont Retired Employees Association and three to be selected by the Vermont State Employees Association. And towards the bottom of A, the Commissioner of Human Resources shall be an ex official member of the committee. We would like the words board designee added so that the commissioner doesn't have to attend the meetings if she or he is not available. So those are the changes that we would like to be made that I explained to the house. Okay.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, I have a feeling we'll take this up again. It doesn't sound again, I'm trying to use an analogy without disparaging either side. Sounds like we have a giraffe and a zebra. And in terms of the VSEA and the retired group, they're they're kind of similar, but they're really not a 100 similar. I'm still trying to understand the differences. You have dues, right, in the retirement piece?

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Right. But the biggest difference is we only represent retirees and their beneficiaries. We have nothing to do with the union.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Right. Okay.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: The only reason that the union is even on this committee that I would think is because they bargain our benefits. And if something's coming up with the insurance, they need to know what to bargain. But we don't bargain and we don't represent active state employees or anybody working that's active and getting a pension or insurance. We represent only the retirees Totally. The union has a retirement chapter that that they represent, but it's not in the bargaining team. It's not they can't bargain, but they when we left the union, they still wanted to have something for retirees. So, to join that chapter, you have to be a union member. Elective. And they eliminate a lot of state employees who cannot join the union. And they have to share their lobbyists with active state employee issues when they come to the state house. The lobbyists for the union represent a large group of people, all of the non management people and the retiree chapter. So when they actually come here, they share the lobbyists. Our lobbyists only represent us, only represent retirees and and nothing else. They don't re represent anybody that's an active state employee. And the only reason we're connected in any way is because we mirror whatever they bargain so that when you retire, you go straight from being an active state employee with insurance and you don't even have to do anything. You still keep your insurance and there's no hitch or anything going on and it's a nice smooth transition to retirement. You keep your insurance.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And historically, have you been able to tell the union member, the VSEA, the three that are on this, how a change might or might not affect you, what your opinion of a new kind of wrinkle would be?

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Yes, because we do work with union when we were doing the Medicare Advantage, we were all supportive of not having it happen. So that's when we worked together to not have that go through. But everything else with the union, we don't get involved in because it doesn't affect retiree. They do their own thing with their own group and they don't even wanna know about it. We wanna focus only on retirees.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Okay. Well, maybe we'll hear from, and I'm a little puzzled because we have the same administration that's been in office for years. For PM ten years, I've been for all of it, but different secretaries.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Right.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And maybe that was part of why only two were appointed at one time. I don't know. I don't wanna

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: I think we're on our fourth. Oh, okay. Yeah. That could So be

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: because the secretary of the administration keeps changing, we may be on the committee two years and then the next two years not on it at all. So right now we have a nice working relationship with HR and the administration and so they accepted the three people.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Okay. And we're they they ask us for legitimate legitimate would make us legitimate and then incorporate us in the statute so that it can't be Yeah. I understand. Somebody can't have a bug up their butt and want to ignore us. We have we have a former legislator and a former commissioner on our board. Yes. So you wouldn't find that in the end.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Who are your former? Rutland.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Rutland. Yes. Former commissioner of tourism and former legislator from. I don't know what it's actually.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: And, yeah, also David on our on our board. He used to work for the treasurer's office.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Treasurer's

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: office. They would never be in the union. They would not be allowed to join me.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: But wonderful. Got

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: several retired judges that are members of our association and so on and so forth. Okay.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, we'll take it up again. Does anyone else want to weigh in? Joe, you're welcome to if you want.

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: No, I'll chat with you guys in the halls once it's incorporated to keep you apprised where it's at. Okay.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Yeah, and we'll

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: keep watch on that bill. It doesn't have a number yet because it's No, just a

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: no, no. Number yet.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: We don't have short form bills in the Senate. So as a matter of fact, as of tomorrow, there won't be any new bills from the Senate this year because that's the deadline for committee announcement.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: I know, I was relating on some of my

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Don't read tomorrow's calendar.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Anything else you'd like the committee to know?

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: No, am very transparent and available at any time. If you need to meet with me again, just let Julie know. If you need to talk to me, my phone number's in the brochure. We're very open to our retirees, and we send out a newsletter periodically. I'm informed, and then every news newsletter is my phone number. So, I'm there if you need me or if you have any questions.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: I can only make a pitch if that bill passes, it will allow you to have retirement and health insurance will be happy

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Join us. Sign you up.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: When we retire.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Yes. Yes. When you

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: buy They won't bargain for our benefit.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: They don't bargain for any benefits.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Yeah. Thank you for having me.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Well, you both. Thank you for having

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: me, my pleasure.

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: Thank you so much, and thank you for the treats you gave us earlier.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Oh, yes. Stop by the table. We don't wanna take any candy home. Thank

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: you. Thank you so much.

[Charlie Dickerson (VRSEA Board Member)]: Thank you. Good luck. So some of you may

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: have noticed on the agenda originally, we were gonna have, chief to testify, but he couldn't make it today. I don't know whether I can accurately describe. He didn't seem to be opposed to this. He said it's an advisory board, first of all, or you, me, whatever it is, so they don't necessarily have the power of voting. But I don't think he had any major objections they let me know about. So we'll, pending the passage of the House Bill, take it up again. I would like to hear from maybe the Secretary of the Administration and somebody from Human Resources just to again flush this out and make sure we're not doing something in statute that in another year somebody's gonna say, What'd you do that for?

[Sen. John Morley III (Clerk)]: And we'll have a witness list if that takes it up all the way the list. True. I

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: feel like we can pause on this topic maybe till we Yeah.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: No, I think you're right.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: I do feel like it's fairly standard when we have words and convictions, even if they are advisory to pretty explicitly say these are the people that are on it. Yeah. And it does make sense to me how this happened given that the board was created before the existence of this, you know

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: I I can see how they sort of didn't circle back.

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Okay. Almost like if you made a list.

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: One day I'll stop making them.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Let me suggest we take a ten minute break, and we'll be back with, unfortunately, no, Tim Devlin was gonna be coming

[Shelley Martin (President, Vermont Retired State Employees Association - VRSEA)]: Yeah, three and three, I think so.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Julie Forschette (Morris Strategies)]: I've got Tim and-

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Chair)]: And Tanya. Tim Devlin. And we'll walk through Greensville, even though we know that you're not married to the language. But at least it'll give us something to work on and change in whatever fashion we decide to do that. I will let you know and we'll we'll go off first.