Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: Just have to work out. They're like a

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: regular warding and grazing training. Alright. Okay. We have that.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: When last we were here, what was happening?

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: We dismissed the tax because everybody did tell us that that because tax rates could or the dispersal rates could vary from year to year. Yes. Oh, who did that? Sorry. We have to share a from the Western piece. Western piece. When I have to remember to shut and lock that window, though, the police department will be all over. It's enthusiastic, which means the one of us needs to climb up there and put it down. Okay.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: One more thing I was hoping I could cover today is there's a technical

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: amendment that was not in either of our versions. That we found it. Yes.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: And I wondered if Hardy could take us

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: through that, if that's okay with you, to just, like, check that box. We have done a whole lot of scrutiny error fixes in bills. Yes. We moved commas, add or. That's great. And I spoke with sounds bad. I spoke with both Betsy Ann

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: and Blue Bird. They said it was

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: More than a script. No. But they said it was fine. Like, that

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: it would not be considered out

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: of order of putting it in. So I don't I don't think that was the technical term. But

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: So council. I do have some language as described, but I also learned that the new rental related to this thing that I wanted to go over with you because if something's in finance does

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: What did we do?

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: So the origins of this we're looking at section 22, which is the repeal of the Department of Fish and Wildlife thieves. Oh, yes. And their general counsel had reached out to me a week and a half ago or so asking, does the immediate removal of fish and wildlife's fee setting authority automatically repeal their regulations? Because the in h September, the idea was that their regulations would stay in effect for until next year, and and then next year would be when the regulate where the the current fee schedule will be put in the statute. Right? Right. Okay. So the answer to Hannah's question was because of three BSA section eight forty eight, the most likely interpretation would be that those regulations would be repealed immediately. I think there's some room for some argument there, but but to be on the safe side, I put together this language to not withstand that section and then to ask some clarifying language for what was originally the intent. I think it's nine thirty three. So the wrinkle is that in s nine twenty nine, I think.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Miscellaneous Fish and Wildlife Bill.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: Miscellaneous Fish and Wildlife Bill, which I'll share now.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Is is that going from reparations or it's on your floor? It's I don't know if we can I think on the floor or two? I think we got a notice today. Yeah.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: So this is not this has not made its way through the senate yet, but if if if the current so what this language does that's now

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: in the senate finance report for h nine twenty eight

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: is that it puts the current fee schedule in regulation in the statute of the now or at least 07/01/2026. So if this is the path that gets taken, then the fix I showed you before is not what we should do. We should make some other changes to adapt h September to match the reality where the fee schedule is putting a statute now.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: Is the third entire fee schedule is here?

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Everything they're doing now.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah. Actually, it's just it's Sorry.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: I was just gonna say, I think this is the fee my understanding of this is the fee schedule that they passed in rule Yes. In February. So this was just approved by LCAR Yeah. Which is how it has been, the process has been. So senator Brennan came in with an amendment to just put this fee schedule in and Senate Finance agreed to put it in our amendment because it was the fee schedule that was just approved by LCAR. And you had wanted them to come in in January and this eliminates the limbo area. It puts it all in statute.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. They'll have to come back.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: The legislature would have to change it. The only thing they're allowed to do is increase, and that's in present law. They gain license fees.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: So doing nothing is not the end of the world in this case. It's just messy. You have a report back in h nine thirty three next year, which you could do nothing about, and it it's not necessary because these are already in statute. And we don't have we wouldn't we could do nothing about the issue with the regulation being repealed immediately by operation law because that would be also fine with this fee statement being statute, except there will be a gap between there could be a gap because this is effective 07/01/2026.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: And the other one's effective immediately?

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: It

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: This is every single fee that the department charges? These are the fees that are in the rule, the specific rule about the use of lands and facilities. Thank you. But no access, no new fee, just this is what they're charging for the use for campsites, the conservation, pollution, the conservation gain. Yes. So that it's always Which section is this? Sections 21, 22, and 23.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: So section twenty one and twenty three are effective on passage. Section 22 was meant that's

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: the that's the repeal of

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: the regulation was meant to

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: be effective 07/01/2027. So

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: assuming it's signed before 07/01/2026, there would be a gap where you could argue that you're not gonna it's free. Everything's free for a little while.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: How long what? I hear July 1 twice.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: So where's the gap? What am I gonna say? 2720 '6.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: The gap would be on passage. So when when the act decide to 07/01/2026.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: So we could move the effective date to 07/01/2026 as a fix. There's no gap. On passage. On passage. Do you mean when the governor actually signed it? We could you could

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: one thing would be that we could do the fix that I showed you and and set that at the

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: January 2026. Yeah. So that that's the same date, sir? Mhmm. Sorry. Because Yeah. I I this seems like a lot of bill that it's also very possible this bill will not make the council law given

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: This bill doesn't make it into law, then

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: you don't make up to the federal tax code. No, not, it's not in wildlife. Oh, got you. That's for sure wildlife.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: I know. I love it. Thank

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: you. No. I meant nine twenty eight. It's possible that nine twenty eight will finish. Got it. Okay. Right? Well, yeah, I think it's on the floor tomorrow. I know. But we have to do that. Mean, I'm missing. I don't it's everything goes well. Right. But Okay. I would just

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: like us to find a path forward then. Yeah. Which works if it passes and if it does pass.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: So that everybody knows what the legal charge is Yes. July 1 to rent the building in the camp to be brought there. So tuition that they'll be starting to take conservation. Yeah. They started to do it. Yeah. So

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: would it work for us to do Kirby's fix, but change the date to July 1?

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: I think we all wanna do the fix. I think you're gonna need it. Curb it. Yeah. I'll figure out

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: I'll figure out the fix, and I will also should

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: I assume that you don't want the report back? Or did you put the report back? Well, I suppose if the

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: other bill doesn't pass Yeah.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Let's see if we could put the fees in this bill. They're all in one bill. But then that's it. Okay. That means your

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: Let's just leave the report. Leave the report.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: And the report can be short.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: But make sure that in the event the other thing passes, there's no gap without fees. Yeah. Yeah. Got it.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Give me a minute. Alright. Yeah. Okay. It's never been. Yeah. Thanks, Ruby. Yes. Is it helpful to go through and see

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: the things that we feel like we don't need to talk about anymore?

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: They're all that we are comfortable with. Is that helpful? That's Like, we accomplished something in our lives? Yeah. Can I make a sore arm? Yeah. I'm gonna do a check mark. I always do the sore arm. I do? The house, whenever feels come when you take it, you do the silver. Oh, and redneck. Yeah. Don't think we get to do that. Think it's I think we have that. So,

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: 4 a is fine for

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: 4 b is fine. 4 C is fine. 6 is fine. 19, you wanna talk about 4? 120 is fine. Go down, Addison. Sorry. Yeah. I'm affirmative. I'm assuming fifty. Fifty, we wanna discuss. Fifty five this morning. Yeah. Would like to conclude discussing the others. 55 a? Just wanna spend a little bit on it. Okay. 55 59, 53 and 3. Mhmm. Yes. And this is. Well, actually Was that 60 green? There really isn't. This is The auditor raised some questions, and this is heard from both the auditor and Burlington committee who wants after they they left you There's a new

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: who had a new something Something. That was okay with everyone.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Yeah. So we'll make sure we get the right thing that's okay with everyone. Great. It's clarifying intent is very important. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay.

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: Is that something that applies to

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: Maybe we can look at that language.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your your fixed language next terms? Okay. Okay. So '19 is gonna be one of the Mhmm. Active. And then '19, I don't feel like we fully understand the way of simple things that I want. Okay. Maybe we could go through those a little bit. We'll go through that. Sure. Okay. And then 55 a, that was adjustments, I think. Curvy or tax to do your couple decoupling Mhmm. Incestuous things. Not gonna say Okay. Now we've got a $500,000 disagreement on 59. Yep.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: And then on the pilot, I

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: I'm worried that we're creating one I'm worried

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: we're creating incentives to just spend whatever that 18,000,000 or more is before I'm worried we're creating incentives to actually spend the pilot money faster in the budget rather than leaving a cushion there. That is one part of knowing our colleagues.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Yes. That has been mentioned. That's it. Yes.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: And we also have taken testimony and not had time to really focus on the fact that the actual pilot payments could use some fixing that you alluded to, and we just haven't had the bandwidth. I don't

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: know how many channels are out there to get enough of.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. And there's something like AOT parking lots apparently don't get pilot payments. Like lots of stuff like that. Know?

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: They check-in And those weren't source fully funded until 2020. Right. So, and those jobs are in some understanding, I let you know.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: And then the general fund covered land seems like it. There's weird stuff about how that's valued.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: That has been going on since before my time,

[Kirby (Legislative Counsel)]: so

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: forever. And, I mean, that was the argument for how if you had a town that got poorest, you got paid. Mhmm. If you had a garage, you got nothing. Mhmm. And but we get some looking at revenue sharing.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: You had a really great report that

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: I believe Ted wrote three years ago? It's something. Yes. It was

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: a fabulous report that we have here.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Was very interested in it. So it was last session, and looking for ways to do revenue sharing with the tenants. That I

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: think are more meaningful than dispersing $3,000,000 every fifth year.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Good wealth. All we need is money. Mhmm. So that's revenue sharing from take money forms, of course. Yeah. And we had a couple meetings over in joint fiscal just between in the summers to talk about what could we do. Yeah. We never came to anything, but it's been discussed. And we kind of have this thing that's grown, like, topsy and doesn't do it isn't the most rationed crops. There are towns that are getting dumped in. Yeah. I think it'd be helpful to have one

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: of our colleagues actually, like, sort

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: of holding that as an issue and really put together some grants of legislation based on that recording. Minnesota does cool stuff. New York does cool stuff. Just remember which city I represent, and a sewer cop was always my my solution to any bad action up here. That's They never tripped me up. Who's your name? Is there anything else we should figure out today? I think so. Okay. You know, this All communications, Chris. Yeah. Chris, do you wanna talk through this at some point? Do you wanna do

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: that today, or another?

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: Perhaps another time, because I'm not entirely sure what you want me to talk about. Cool. What happened? What is it? Interesting. It's how the pilot's used. Oh, okay. Might be moving in other girls as well? Yeah. You've already seen that. Oh, it's a 50 bill. Yes. Okay. To The bill does do things. Mhmm. To the pilot. So I think that will be us that confidence has to put us before we we should work. Mhmm. We're not gonna get to the church today. Oh, Okay. When do wanna meet that? Wait. Did we move this? No. No. We moved yield. We moved yield to 02:00 since tomorrow. Mhmm. Some of this has the meeting at 09:30. Right? So it's still at 08:30. And then appropriations has a something. Okay. Are you at your committee meeting tomorrow? Yes. We've got all the piece coming in on that educational technology. We've now moved them to 01:00. Oh, okay. You're booked tomorrow till about four. Do you have time in the morning? We're on the floor at ten. Oh, okay. And if the hot air doesn't die tomorrow, we could be on there till four. Shall we meet at four tomorrow, or shall we wait until Thursday? I would prefer Thursday because I got scram. Okay. Thurs no. You can't do nine. You can do 09:30. Nine. Or Friday. I'm here. Friday's a little getting late.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: I think Friday's getting late. Yeah. Yeah.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: So And then 01:00 on Thursday? Do that. Does that work? Sure. Yep. I wanna do that. Thanks. It's not like that. Charlotte, you're doing that? Are you telling someone to do that? I'll tell them. Thank you.

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: One Thursday.

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: And that's miscellaneous. Right? I've Yeah. Heard

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: We're gonna look at two pieces of

[Ann Cummings (Chair)]: language from Kirby. Okay. And And borrow she will be yield. Wait. Let's finish miscellaneous tax receipts. So we'll hear language from Kirby, and we'll talk more about the SGOs. Okay. Feel like that's lot. Test kits. Yeah. The The test

[Thomas Chittenden (Vice Chair)]: kits.