Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: We're live.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Alright. The senate education committee on next day, April 15. And we're gonna start the afternoon with a good as as we have tended to do the last week or so, we're gonna

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: be chucking around a lot today but

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: we'll start a little bit of testimony on H930 and accolade to us and implementing chronic absenteeism in schools obviously. And we have, she was the Director of Student Engagement and Data at Hilliard Roxbury Public Schools. So I guess you're supposed to say your name for the record, technically.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: For the record, Nate Conner. Thank you, Chair Bongartz and members for having me. I'm here today to discuss H nine thirty. My background, as you mentioned, I'm the director of student engagement data for Montpelier Rock Creek Public School. Also serve as a senior fellow with Attendance Works, which is a national nonprofit that really addresses chronic entities with food policy and professional development across the country. Not here in my capacity as Attendance Works. Also, as a resident of Royalton and someone gets to work in school districts across Vermont, talking about chronic absenteeism, I wanted to comment and share with you all a little bit about my thoughts on the bill. I provided a written testimony, And instead of just kind of reading word for word the testimony, thought I would share kind of a small story about why it is I feel the way I feel about the bill and and and get to the three points that I would recommend the committee to get to take a look at. And and when I started in Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools, was coming from Denver and and had been a director of a dropout recovery program working in 20 school districts of Denver Public Schools, running on and working with young people who had left school early. So Denver public schools would have 2,000 students drop out of school every single year. We got the chance to work with these young people and hear their stories and their journeys. And when I came to Montpelier, I was in a position that was called community liaison. Nobody knew what that meant. I didn't know what that meant. And one thing I did know is I was in charge of attendance for our district. And so we're in about October, November, and there was a student who had missed a number of days. It was a first grader who had missed a number of days, and I got the call from the floor and said, Nick, you're up. You have this kid who's missed a lot of school. They come in late all the time. Mom has this look on her face every time she comes in, and this kid has an IEP, and they're missing services, and so you know what to do. And so I knew what to do. I pulled out the flowchart that somebody handed me, and I was like, Cool, gotta give a call. I gotta send a letter, and then if they keep missing school, I've gotta reach out to DCF from the State's Attorney. What ended up happening is I reached out to the student's mom several times and never got an answer, never got an answer. Eventually, went to the house, just to a home visit. It was a big apartment complex, one those ones you had like buzz in on, Room 330. So I buzzed and this head comes out the window three floors up, they're like, Who are you? I'm like, Hey, I'm Nick from the schools, I was here to talk about attendance. She goes, I just put the baby down to sleep. Can't come down. I'll call you later. Wow. Okay. I was waiting in the main office for several days hoping this mom would come in late with her student. It had been reported to me, they come in late all the time, and it's later and later, and this family doesn't really seem to care that much about education. So, I was starting to get this mentality and had started to reach out to DCF, sort of talking educational neglect at this point. I call mom again, she picks up, and I don't know why I said this. I said, Can I walk to school with you? She's like, Use the help. I had no idea what that meant. So I show up the next morning. It's a cold November morning, and and out comes Sarah. We're we're calling Sarah at this moment. Comes running out, ready to go to school, pumped. Uh-oh. It's gonna be great. Good to go. Behind Sarah is a a little sibling, not yet in school, comes to friends and he has like, oh, this is my brother. He's gonna come with us. Great. Awesome. Behind little brother came another little sibling. He wore those backpacks with, like, a leash, you know? Mom is holding that leash and pushing a stroller. She goes, alright. Let's go. Okay. I'm gonna tell mom all the things that are super important about school. I'm gonna let her know why it's so important that Sarah's coming to school, and I'm gonna let her know if it doesn't change, what has to happen. That's my job, I'm a truancy officer. We walked to school, it was everything I could do to keep these young people going in the same direction,

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: running out

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: on the road, chasing a squirrel that may have been over at the bird feeder. We get to school, and I'm thinking the school's probably going to throw me a parade because I got this family here, and the students here just going to be in school, and I was exhausted, and it's 08:00. We go into the front office, and our front office staff, who are amazing, look at me, they look at the clock, and they say, Why are you late this time? And I was devastated. He's like, Do you realize the herculean effort that we just moved through to get this student to school? This is a mom who is a single mom, has four kids under the age of seven, and just walked just under a mile to get her kids to school. This really pushed me in new direction in my understanding of how we approach attendance, which is what brings me to this bill. When we talk about chronic absenteeism, and to be clear, am fully supportive of the intent of age nine thirty, this is a very important step forward in how we work with our families and students across our state. There are a few specific points that I would like to lift up. The first being removing I would ask that there's a consideration of removing what is labeled as excused and unexcused from legislation. The reason I'm asking for that to be removed is this can become a very long list, and there will be advocacy groups that come and talk to you about, you need to add this, you need to add this, this is worthy, this is worthy. And before we know it, we've got a list of 37 reasons that are deemed worthy to miss school. What we have seen time and again is the reason young people are missing school is not because they don't care, it's not because it's not worthy, but there is one track that will lead to poor, and there is one track that will lead to grace and makeup work. When we look at the village that's written now, we are codifying multiple reasons that leave, I believe there's four places for a superintendent or designee to have discretion as to if this is an okay absence or not. I have no problem with uniformity and the definitions of excused and unexcused. I actually think it's really important that we have this uniformity and predictability across our state. When we start to dictate subjectivity into deciding what is a good absence and what is a bad absence, we lose the point of chronic ascites, which is to say we care about lost instructional time. That young person that takes a vacation to Europe for ten days right now in this bill, a superintendent, could say this is a preplanned absence for ten days, and I will excuse it. The same young person like Sarah, who misses school, gets unexcused, because that's not deemed a worthy cause that mom is doing everything she can, and someday they just don't leave. When we codify this, we can't adapt the language in this bill, we can't be responsive to student needs, and we're actually building in more subjectivity, so what is excused and unexused, and prioritizing the fact that some absences are good and some absences are bad, when the reality is we care more about lost instructional time than trying to be a lie detector to say, this was good, this was bad. To be clear, educational neglect is a thing. It is much less of a thing than we think. We still need to move forward with a process that responds to educational neglect. However, the way that this bill is written currently really moves us toward a place of punishment and subjectivity. I have been in a number of truancy hearings here in Vermont and throughout Colorado. Ever once have I been in a truancy hearing with a family that wasn't living in poverty. There's something wrong there. If we are only criminalizing poverty as a response to absenteeism, our system needs work. Many schools don't have the opportunity to send someone to a house to walk a family to school to understand that journey and change how we do business. That's the first piece. The next piece I would say is removing Truancy Officer from the language in the bill. Understand that Truancy Officer is written in a lot of legislation, this is common language, but I think language shapes culture, and when we look at, if I show up to Sarah's house and I am the truancy officer, or if I show up to Sarah's house and I am the attendance engagement specialist, it's a really different approach. It's a really different mindset, and that family is gonna receive me from a very different place. So, when we talk about the truancy officer language, we are really enforcing this mentality of enforcement and schools acting as enforcers of compliance versus being partners, because of all the barriers that young people and families are facing. The last piece I would outline here is we still have financial penalties in here for truancy. So if I think about Sarah's mom, and I think about Sarah's mom needing to go to court, needing to be put in front of a judge or a child in need of supervision, a Chittenden case, just that language alone, child in need of supervision, you're going to take my kids. That's what we do when families don't come to school, rather than try and listen and center their voices. If I think about the fact that we have a thousand dollar fine written into this bill, what a financial burden would mean to Sarah's mom or to many of the other families that I get to work alongside, I think we have a real problem at how we're criminalizing and punishing poverty. So I would ask that this be reviewed in section one twenty seven. House Bill nine thirty is turning point for Vermont. We have a lot of data to show this is a problem. One in four students in our state is chronically absent. And so, when we think about these numbers, we have to now see the data, see the problem, but we need to have the courage and think about how we're going to respond to this issue. So, I would ask that we move from criminalization to compassion, and from enforcers to partners. With that, I will name that I appreciate all the work that you all are doing. I'm glad to have a discussion that is about building maps. And I'm available if there's any questions or follow ups that I can provide.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Mr. Chittenden?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. I

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: find this all really compelling, and I know some counties and school districts have been working on this a long time and it is true that it's kind of ripe for a big legislative sea change. Did you share your perspective with the house and they just didn't incorporate it or Yes. Okay.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: And the the first time I was with the house, I was there in in with Vermont Student Contents Association to respond to any questions about the topic. Okay. And so really serving as kind of the answering about content. Mhmm. The night prior to their vote of passing out of the house, I I finally was like, really wanna put my thoughts into this and give this and I I think the house candidly was ready to to move on from the spill. Okay. I was late to the party. Okay. And so as I spent more time with this bill and really understood the pieces that I think are really important to address, so there was, in response to that, a lot of support that came from the House and a request to speak with the Senate had come Okay. To

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: my only other question is the you know, it's a bigger lift to remove a penalty. Right? It just have you I I believe, for example, our state's attorney would support that. We were trying to move towards the data to show criminalizing or penalizing the family in any way is is not gonna help anybody. If you talk to your state's attorney, do you think a majority of the system that would otherwise place this penalty on a parent is ready to move on from this penalty as well?

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: I have not explicitly spoken to our local state attorney handling truancy, Chris Sikazi, who is great. And every time I'm in in the courtroom with Kristen, she's so family first and so very much responsive to the the the underlying factors. I have not seen that actually come out Yeah. In ways that would threaten this fine Right. Or any

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: piece. Like, they generally stop using it in a lot of

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: places. Generally. Yeah. And Yeah. Again, how the language that we move forward with really shapes our response. Think chronic absenteeism is as much a philosophy as it is a system of response. It is how we partner with our families. It is how we move forward in solving this issue, because we will not punish our way out of 25% chronic we will not case manage our way out of 25% chronic absenteeism. We need to think and shift our mindsets about how we support families.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So do you have specific recommendations for the government? I get the, from what they can get from their perspective, the motion of fines and go to court. I

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: would also add that I would ask that the removal of what is excused and unexcused comes out of this bill and is assigned to the agency of education or state board of education. To develop policy? To develop, yes, what they would define as what is excused and unexcused. I think if it's written in legislation, it's become stagnant, it's not adaptable.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So that would be guidance from that standpoint. Exactly.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: I think the reasons that I see in the bill currently, it would be really hard for me to think that that is an appropriate way to move forward, how we decide what is good and what is bad. I think it will exacerbate inequities that we've seen, What the research would show for California and Maryland, but there was research recently done that shows young people with marginalized identities are hitting unexcused tags way more often than their peers.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Can I ask one more thing about that? Which is, I mean, at some point to get us this far, I know that the task force in Chittenden County needed to collect the data about what were the excuses given or they had to somehow characterize the the assets. Yes. Do you like, and that could still happen through the agency of education, but but you do think I mean, is there some value to knowing, you know, or or categorizing the types of assets that is? And do you usually see it linked to, you know, family and economic barriers to

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Yes. Yes. I think we have to have excuse and unexcused because educational neglect still exists. I struggle with the fact that that is the threshold that we can, as schools, determine there's neglect happening. Is twenty unexcused days is what will tip it over into truancy. There's many states that say three unexcused days, five unexcused days. I would guess Vermont has one of the highest thresholds of unexcused days tipping into truancy than any state of the country. Many states are looking at three, five, and ten days of unexcused absences. So As far as the qualifiers, yes, I do think they are necessary categories, and we as schools have a whole lot of work to do. When there is an unexcused absence, how does that teacher agree to kid when they walk back in the room? Do they roll their eyes and not provide the makeup work and catch that student up versus the kid that comes in with an excused absence because they were able to get to the doctor and provide a note? Who's able to get to the doctor and provide a note? There are some families that can, there are some therapists that very clearly cannot, and so this unexcused tag has this ripple effect. Yes, I do think those are important qualifiers. I do think there is a whole lot of work to do in professional development world around really shaking off this mentality of one is good and one is bad. What we care about is lost instructional time. When we have a long list of excuse, non excuse absences, especially if they're written here, I see this having a disproportionate impact on young people that are associated with the disadvantaged, people of color, in the same ways that we've seen it all along, in the same ways that the research shows exactly.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Good testimony. In in h nine thirty, there's a section four which is completely repealed, which was a penalty for a truance truancy officer failing to retrieve the pneumonia. Yes. How do you feel about it?

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: I think it's fair. I mean, I think, you know, when I first, took over the one of the first things I did was read out of attendance and upholstery laws and saw that a truancy officer could be rolling around in their car and pick up a young person who is school age if they're not in school and bring them to school. That feels pretty historic to me. So I'm I'm very pleased to see. And and again, I am fully supportive of the intensive 09:30. I think this is a strong move in the right direction, and I think we can be better in general.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: So not uncommon for job set metrics or performance and success. Is there a replacement for this? What I what I think what I think the section's trying to do or was trying to do, at least was in statute to do, was to incentivize truancy officers to get up get up, you know, retrieve kids Yeah. Students. But what other metric you recommend in its place? Absolutely.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Chronic absenteeism, athlete metric, is the metric. Chronic absenteeism is missing 10% of school for any reason, excused, unexcused, and out of school suspensions. That's eighteen days over the course of one hundred and eighty days school year, checking on missing the months of optical crimson. So our chronic absenteeism rate is one that I would say, in our district, and it's starting to be more common, I know our chronic absenteeism rate every single day. I know what it changes every single day, so we're sitting at eighteen percent in Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools. Four years ago, we were at thirty two percent. The state is at twenty five percent. Prior to the pandemic, nationally, we were at fifteen percent. After the pandemic, we were at thirty percent, so it nearly doubles after the pandemic. We have seen strong gains in Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools. I was also part of a project at ABM, which is called Everyday Counts, run by Doctor. Heidi Schumacher, who's amazing. I've encourage testimonies to curve if there's an opportunity. We worked with four school districts, so Franklin Northeast, St. Jay, Orange Southwest, and White River Valley. So we worked with these four school districts to provide professional development to their staff, talked about how we collect meaningful data, talked about how we do meaningful strategies, and really importantly, how we partner. So in each site, there was a diet, there was a community health center, and the school that partnered in this work. The data that we've seen come out of this project, every single district has reduced their chronic absenteeism rate dramatically. So my metric would be chronic absenteeism. When Libby, my superintendent, comes to me and says, Nick, what's our chronic absence? That's my accountability. I need to be held accountable. If we are not seeing these numbers go down, what am I doing? If I don't have it at the tip of my tongue, what am I doing? I think it's a much more meaningful number because we're talking about young people who are in school versus who are not in school, rather than focusing on it being good or bad. It's just that they're not here. So that's my metric there.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So for you, that thinking about going to Kesha Ram is to apply to the school, not the individual.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Oh yeah, it is a school and statewide metric. Yeah, there are 37 states in

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the The country school, that the,

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: not the, There are 37 states in the country that have chronic absenteeism as a metric in their S-five. Yeah.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Interesting. Okay. Yes. So is there age that it seems to be more chronic than less?

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Yeah, great question. What you will see, if you think of a bar chart, kindergarten over here for a second, all the way to twelfth, it is at you. Kindergarten has incredibly high rates. It starts to dip down a bit in the middle school and peaks back up again in twelfth grade. Twelfth grade, obviously, you've got your seniors, your students that are, whatever you want to call it, senioritis, taking fewer classes, it's okay to miss a day here or there for college visits, etcetera. Kindergartners, you have the fact that it's not necessarily mandatory in the state of Vermont. You also have the fact that families still have this perception of, It's kindergarten. We're good. And you also have young people building immune systems as well, so that more days missed there. What the research shows very clearly is if you are chronically absent in kindergarten and first grade, the likelihood of you reaching that grade level by the time you're in third grade is dramatically reduced. It really is one of the earliest indicators of a young person struggling in school, you can see that race.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: At that point, it's more parent than it is the child.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Yeah, it is absolutely a spectrum. When I'm doing interventions or working with families, it's a very different conversation if I'm responding to a kindergartner versus a Masala,

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: eighth grader. Yeah, all the way up to maybe sixth grade, correct?

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Yeah, there's certainly a tipping point in middle school when I'm doing a home visit or something and sitting at the dining room table, if it's the kid sitting there, the parent sitting there. So yeah, does, for sure.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: And then is it basically just educating the parent, I'll give this for instance, my son-in-law, daughter, he, you know, when they first had the baby and he had to get the baby ready and her, he was always getting to school full of late. And that eventually kicks in that day. Sure. Even though it was like fifteen minutes late. Yeah. Keeps it all of a sudden.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Absolutely.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Yeah. It's like, wow, you're missing that first fifteen minutes of school. So he had to end up getting better, like, we don't really wanna do this, but it triggers a notice that you're gonna have to get

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: He may receive a letter, right? What I would say is really valuable is really understanding what that journey is for him. The example I gave about Sarah, that was a housing complex. It was a big unit. We had multiple young people living at that complex. All of them were chronically absent. They were just under a mile, which in our district meant people can't get a bus ride. Can't get a bus ride for less than a while. But the bus stopped two blocks up and drove by this apartment complex. So we pulled the data after we had our walk to school. I pulled the data. We looked at 's in this building, the bus now stops there and it's not an issue. That was an effective intervention versus sending a letter to say, You got this number. Do better. I think that's the philosophy of chronic absenteeism and why this is really important.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: My sense is that, you know, it's captured or not. They were actually inclined to do, I think in the end, get to where you're gonna go, but I think, but just thank you for coming in. Yeah. And I think you've given us real food for. So yeah.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Oh, are you I'll I'll go after

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: we're we're late. Okay. But significant. It it Well,

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: I think it's related to maps and mergers because I think there's a desire to free up more resources so a transportation system could work. Right? Like, even right now with cuts, we're hearing kids are getting picked up from previous bus routes. Do you think as we look at redistricting and reform, it would be helpful to have a pot of money set aside where a school could say, we're trying to reduce our chronic absenteeism, and what we need is a grant for this to happen.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Yeah, absolutely. I'll be quick. One example is at the high school level in Mont Belarus, there's no plus, right? But we have an incredible person, Leslie, who is our attendance support specialist at high school. She goes around with one of the district vans and picks up kids that may be living at the condo watch, that may be living in various places because we know

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Yeah.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: What it takes for that kid to get to school, and we're just doing like, there is no, like, sign out there. It's no, like, here's the like, it's, like, this young person needs a ride. Let's get them a ride. That's something we're funding on our own. Right? And and that stuff builds for sure. What more?

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: No. I'll I'll it's on schedule again tomorrow. Okay. Okay. Thanks.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So I don't know. Beth is right outside for She was. I saw her bump her head. I

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: think I see Beth. Where do pull our chairs go?

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: The stone.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Who's that?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Next door. Where? Where? What next door? They come back to From Yes. Adoptive openness. What what

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: does it sound like? Those are nice.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I think I'll grab them. So next, I I think it was just a walk through the final line

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Could be for the topic.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. Yeah, today we have the discussion about the timeline. There is one, and we have it. With us today, have Beth James, who's on the Senate Counsel. We'll walk you through the timeline.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Thank you. Beth St. James, office of legislative council. Do you need me to share my screen?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: No. I don't think so. We have to have copy. Okay.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So this is the timeline for Act 73. Like I mentioned, I think it was just yesterday or the day before that all blend together, not everything that is contemplated happening in Act 73 is on this timeline. So, just because I don't touch on something today doesn't mean it's not supposed to happen, or etcetera. So, if you have questions, please let me know. And many of the things, as you can tell by the dates, right, like the first three bullets there, passage 07/01/2025, December 2025, those have already passed us. So we will walk through that, but just to note that some of these things have already happened. So on passage, Act 73, certain things happened and these were related to effective needs. So, the school district redistricting task force was created on passage. The school district voting board working group was created on passage and updates to the charge of the commission on the future of public education were effective on passage. And then on 07/01/2025, the School Construction Advisory Board was effective. The changes that you made to section eight twenty eight, Title 16 regarding who is eligible to receive public tuition were effective on 07/01/2025. And the changes to who appoints members of the State Board of Education was effective on July 2025. And then on December in December 2025, there were various December dates, so it's just the whole month. You were supposed to get these reports. The school district report, standards for small by necessity and smart by necessity from the state board, Special Ed and Therapeutic Schools report from AOE, statewide financial data student info systems report from AOE, school construction division report from AOE, consolidation guidance was supposed to be issued or drafted with, I believe, a copy provided to the legislature, transportation reimbursement recommendations from AOE, inflationary measures, and pre k report from JFO, and property tax classifications report from the Department of Tax.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Could you help us out a little bit and tell us which of these reports were extended, due dates were extended?

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I don't believe any of

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: these due dates are extended. All by necessity?

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Not the report for the recommendations from the State Board.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Thank you, Kesha.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So, in the twenty twenty sixth session, Act 73 stated that it was your intent to enact new school district boundaries, update career and technical education, update pre k, begin the process creating voting wards. I'm not sure what the reference to report on regional reappraisals do. It must be that there was some report to you all due at that time period that was separate than the intent. And then 07/01/2026, new school district boundaries were supposed to go into effect, class size minimums do go into effect, and the school construction program goes into effect. And then 07/01/2027, statewide graduation

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So just to keep in our discussion yesterday, it actually was yesterday, although I haven't kept why it seems longer, This is when the class has made a machine test 07/01/2027. That's it.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: So for 07/01/2027, statewide graduation requirements starting with the class of 2031 are envisioned to go into effect. I say envisioned because the directive at this point is for the AOE to develop those statewide graduation requirements with the goal of them becoming effective in July 1, or the standard they're supposed to be developed by 07/01/2027, and they would start to take effect for the class of 2031. But there's nothing, didn't change any statutes in Act 73 related to graduation requirements. And then there was an update to the December 1 letter in anticipation of transition foundation formula that would take effect on 07/01/2027. November 27, it was envisioned that initial school board member special election would be happening for new school districts. That was in your intent section. There was no statutory language that requires that. 01/01/2028, a statewide school calendar would go into effect. Additions new tax of classifications for education property tax would go into effect. 07/01/2028, new school districts were envisioned to be operational, which means they would be responsible for the education of all resident students. The foundation formula and tuition changes will go into effect if the conditions are met, that's what that asterisk represents. Statewide education tax and supplemental district spending tax would go into effect if the conditions were, will go into effect if the conditions are met. Homestead exemption replaces the property tax credit if conditions or contingencies are met, and statewide graduation requirements beginning for the twenty eight-twenty nine school year. So the 07/01/2027 related to the statewide graduation requirements, I believe would be the recommendations for the AOE establishing those. And then on 01/01/2029, full municipal reappraisal change to a regional office document. So some of this is intent language, and some of this is going to take effect if you don't make any changes, and if there's a contingency involved, then obviously the contingency would also have to be.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Super rude. I appreciate it.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yes.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: May I I was listening for this. Sorry if I missed it. Did we all agree somewhere on the foundation formula implementation staggering? Or like the There's a transition mechanism that I can't speak to. I'm not familiar enough with it. There's a transition mechanism. I thought I I didn't know if it was like, you said five years of change.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I think it's five years.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: I would like, yeah, I mean, we should know.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Yeah.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Right? Because we don't, I think we lost track.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: For

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: clarification, that the ramp up of some districts' taxes and the ramp down of some districts' taxes? Yes.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: I have a question maybe. The statewide calendar, there's no other progress that's coming on there?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: No. It's I was gonna ask you to stop by the media. So we'll have to come through.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Let me look at ASH 73.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: That's AOE's charge. Correct? Should ask them to look forward on how they that's done, just so we had her in the mail.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Statewide calendar requires on or before January 15 that the Secretary of Education shall develop and publish a statewide calendar. In honor before 01/15/2027, the Secretary will also present to the Education Committees a list of the statutory amendments necessary to affect the intent of that subsection.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So if you could this year, just to see how they're kind of Yeah.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: And then on the class size, to kind of decide whether we're gonna extend or what would be so that they don't feel so much pressure. Okay. Yep.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So what we've talked about so far is that, as you suggest, those two things and more of the time, less than one was due to all the conditions in that. Or it's also some sense of of other opener. So, Pretty good, very much. Thank you for coming in. Are you back today?

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: With you? Yeah. No. That's today. No, I don't

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: have No. A Next time I'm in here is Friday. Friday, okay.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: We're gonna miss you.

[Beth St. James (Legislative Counsel, Office of Legislative Counsel)]: Yeah? I will see you then.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Quick question and answer.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay. So we have we have, like, on the agenda, it's picking up from yesterday, issues we have, the IRS and the IRS trustee. We've got two issues in front of us. When we approach it, the doctor census will be so folks can figure out. So issue number one, which is, you know, one third, one

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: third, one third for the 25, 25, twenty twenty five,

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: 50. I have said what I think yesterday. Yeah. Good consensus. We can something with her.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: If we don't, we won't. I would I would go either '25, '25, 50. Fallback, '25, '25, '25. But 50. I agree with that statement.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Second.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: I think I said I think I said yesterday that certainly we should change it this year. I think if we're if we're, like, inheriting the Higher Ed Trust Fund as a committee with policy jurisdiction, let's understand how it was formed and all the agreements that went into that and what's transpired since. It's not a large amount of money, so I could go either way from that perspective, but I I just worry about each of those three like, the one decision, the status quo seems less tenuous to me right now than deciding between the 50 versus the twenty five twenty five. And, like, it it just sort of a lot of process for people that I don't think we're we're fully equipped to manage.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: I mean, I'd I'd be on board to get very more testimony about it. Yeah. That's good preference on it.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. I I think like I said, I think we're not hoping it I think it's more complicated than that person. So

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: I don't think the the appropriations committee is waiting for us regardless. It would be more of a question of a real informed for the floor or for the people. Yeah, I'm fine taking court testimony. Wish you understand it better.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. Then we have, heard Senator Rutland here yesterday with with that proposal. So let's let's get this sense in our level. And I said, well, I thank you, mister May.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: No change? I don't you want me to support Bill because you're saying they wanna it's too quick. We don't have enough information for you to don't wanna change your group. Oh, I know it's a different thing, but it has

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: a Exercise to act. Yeah.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Need more information. Well, good to go.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: As described, as recommended by center group. Let's get that project done.

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: Still enough.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Yeah. So let's split. I do I mean, I

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: before where we where we were, I think from, like, a week ago, was people agreed about the importance of the project, but were concerned about it coming under that higher trust fund. And then we heard, but I I couldn't tell if senator Hammer had your concern was that if you wanna know more about the higher trust fund Mhmm. So that we don't take the money out of the trust fund all in one year. Yep. Because now we're putting it back. So I mean, that's an event.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: So so what would be necessary to illustrate the the financial point? Would you like to see this is for you, Steve. The fund increase, and then you have this big giant donation, then you have this $12,000,000 carve out, then you have the five year escalation back, you know, taxes going back in. Is that the kind of Yeah.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: A little bit more clarification and understanding on my point.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Like how quickly it would actually get repaid.

[Senate Education Committee Member (Unidentified)]: Mhmm. Yeah.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Yeah. You just

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: That'd be great.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: You know, you've been embedded in this for a while, so you totally understand it. I never show you like them.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: It's new to me. I think

[Nate Conner (Director of Student Engagement & Data, Montpelier Roxbury Public Schools; Senior Fellow, Attendance Works)]: the implications of opening it up to capital projects should also be looked at. We're opening it up to 12,000,000 million, but also the 600,000 for housing. You know, mean, there's obviously there's no crystal ball, but presumably, every other higher education campus is going to want some money to the building or build a new building. And so, how will that go with against the bonds that exist and the fund that we may be getting the excise tax. So there's a number of factors to look at.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. My answer coming in today was if a we real quick consensus, we have a good consensus, if we don't, we don't, and that's fine. So and we can take take take some more testimony than than one third one third in our own scrap that way. Okay. Do we have like, call to remove? Yeah. It's not till 02:30. If not, we'll take a quick break. Thank you. Quick break.