Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I'm live.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. Patient centered education committee back after a short break. We're picking up. We have another witness at 03:30. In the meantime, we're working down our budget letter. Our next topic is Build Upright Futures. The request that came in to us for the seven ninety eight-seven zero seven, it represents level of funding and is consistent with the governor's recommendation. On medium low. I'm

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I got you. A reduction, really, or what? No.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I'm not advocating anything. Well, then

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: you said medium low.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: No, I said I'm medium low.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So Or high medium low. I'm

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: medium low. Low. I'm like, oh, I'm medium low. Where

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: are we building our futures?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, we'll be in refugees.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Well, the July was in the Governor's memo, and it was in the House.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Ah, I think so.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We must make sure that's true. Say, I should.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Is that true? Respond if that's the case.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Building grant proof is, yes, level funded, no change to governance recommended, and has passed by House. Yeah. High, medium, low. High. High. Okay. And low. Yep.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I thought you were up. So I fully respect what they do, what the organization does. And I I would give it a I would give it a high medium. But I just wanted to comment. I do find it kind of odd that we have these outside Entities. Entities. We already we have AOE. We have Safe Work Education. We have Building Bright Futures. It just seems like a weird confluence of decision makers and advisers, and and I'll leave it at that. I respect what they do. I think we we need that type of input, but I'm not sure why they're not, like, on a why why they're not indebted to the State Board of Education or something to that effect, but I'll leave it at that because I don't know enough to.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Mhmm.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I'm not trying to criticize. I just don't understand the whole structure. So many people bumping into each other comes to policy policy.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: That's what we'll get to. Yeah. That's a good discussion there. Yeah. Okay. So, I think the committee's perspective then so that would be.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Mostly high, but what it, did you see?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So one medium, one medium high.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Medium high. Well. Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I kind of got it. It's okay. Advance Vermont, dollars 600,000 request. I believe the House could have been for only two?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Two through Department of Labor.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: So

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: level one oh, I'm sorry, going go see that. Just get the disclosure. If answer wants to keep out of it.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Fixes, essentially they're asked to keep doing all of the work they're doing.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I was to expand.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: What were they when did I last do?

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Between five or four?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It was between two and three.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Was it that high? Advancement route, that's the one that has the website to go I to other didn't think it was that high.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Oh, was at least that much. Thought maybe they even had more than that.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: At one year they had more.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: He's out in the hallway because you have him.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Oh.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Is he? Yeah, he was. He was in here for a little while.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah. Yeah. They have been in here faithfully every day. Right there. I

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: mean, we got the presentation already. Right.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I think it was just a question about last year.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So was.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I don't, or I would.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Here you go. Okay. Look, sorry, you're probably keeping an eye on something. Do you want me mute just for

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: a second, Yeah, just for a quick fill in the blank. Yeah. So for the record.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Palm Cheney Advanced Firm. Yeah, just remind us what your funding has been the last couple of years. From you all?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, well, total. Total? Total, okay. Both actually.

[Tom Cheney (Executive Director, Advance Vermont)]: So our annual budget is in the neighborhood of say 3 and $50,000 to $400,000 in the year typically, and it comes from a variety of sources. This past year you all upgraded $150,000 The year before was zero. We were okay, we didn't ask for funds. The prior year was $3.50. The prior year was 150. The year before that was $3.50. So there's been a little bit of back and forth. We have had, in those years, have a combination of a federally discretionary spending, the last two years, this past year and this year, which is running out, and that one's graduated from a plan, And then we have philanthropic dollars, which vary a little bit from year to year, but not, let's call it maybe a quarter of the budget or a little less. And then we had, for a number of years, a grant or a contract, actually, through Hireability Vermont to support my future BNT, which was put to another 100 or so thousand dollars. The federal money has been, in what amounts for the last three years now? It was just under $300,000 allocations spread over two years.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: This is the second year of that. It's the second year, so those funds go away. So you had 150, let's say, for last year, plus 100.

[Tom Cheney (Executive Director, Advance Vermont)]: Plus the 150 and then some double rocket funds. So you're up around

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: three fifty, 400? Yeah.

[Tom Cheney (Executive Director, Advance Vermont)]: Okay, and just give us a quick reminder why the requests were up to 600? Yeah. So to do both of those programs well, it requires a staff of at least four folks. It really is a human enterprise here. And that takes about $600,000 between those four folks, the costs for maintaining the MyFutureBT platform, other costs associated with running an organization. But the private bulk of those costs are those people to do the work. What we're finding, we're talking about how many people are utilizing MyFutureETS, is that the best way to drive utilization is kind of a sales approach, right? People on the ground to do that work, to make those connections to schools, organizations, and that takes a lot of time and a lot of miles on the road, and we have yet to be able to actually fully devote our energy to that kind of sales pitch. Know, how can we help you fund? Graduating with a plan is something we have not asked you for funds before. So that is why it feels like there's an additional request, and that is to fill those dollars from, that we're doing the same for the federal treasury directed spending. We shall start the program, help us get a proof of concept, and now we're coming to you to say We have high demand for that program. We have great partnerships with key folks across the state, including state government, who wanted to succeed. What we need for that is people to also be able to do that work, because that is also intensive in schools, providing professional development and helping to implement and build capacity for career education planning in schools so that it is a routine part of a school day, a child's day, as well as outside the community, working with employers and other organizations and parents.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I would just say this, if we were, like, thinking about it as, like, a startup that the state supported from its inception because we saw a gap, the proof of concept is there. This is work that no one else frankly doing. I'm just not gonna say doing well. Like, I wish there were other people doing this work. They are not on any statewide scale. Now it's about scaling. Now it's about you need some time to actually fundraise. It's hard to fundraise more than a $100,000 if you're on the road, you know, sort of selling the product. And I think it's a catalytic moment for this program where we either give it a chance at success or build it two years all over again.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So I agree with you guys' sport, that's best for the program, but I think we should leave your conversation on the table as it was and not recognize we've got a small army of high school counselors out there and other career counselors who are trying to do many of the same things in a different format. We should rec we should

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: respect Oh, I hope that, David, because I'm at statewide. Like, working with them. I mean, really, it's, like, keeping them from just looking through a straw or whatever you said, because first of all, we've asked many other entities to build a website like this and have spent a lot of money on that. The proof of concept is actually a actual product, like a tangible product that has thousands of users that we have been asking for for a long time.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I think the bridge is what I'm hearing here is, I think the reality is high school counselors rely on what they

[Tom Cheney (Executive Director, Advance Vermont)]: ask. And they will be a client. And who's graduated with the plan work, they are really excited to bring our expertise and our capabilities to help them build it into the school day, because in many cases they feel taxed, and they would love some additional health and resources, not only for them to utilize the students or to help them with the programming they're doing, but so that they can help ensure that they're not the only people throughout this, that their faculty and the staff at the school are well trained, understand their role, and can help build that capacity.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, I'm gonna cut right to the chase. I support it as a high, but I also support dividing the amount half the Department of Labor and half into the agency of education. It consists of different different perspective. Mhmm.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: That's more of what should happen. I mean, we sit on two committees where and Tom Tom's been with me through all these meetings where it's like, this shouldn't be that hard to figure out how labor and education work better together. And instead, there are a lot of places where we're moving backwards, as Thomas has pointed out, with the fewer students are graduating with a plan. What's happening?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: You're not under your center, you're your own nonprofit. We're our own nonprofit. We work with both the AOE

[Tom Cheney (Executive Director, Advance Vermont)]: and work perfectly. Yeah, and this past year, so prior, VSAC was our fiscal agent today fund, so we're not passing through them anymore, but has been the Department of Labor. Ideally, we would have one contract with the state, but I understand your The reasons why you suggest that with Graduating with a Plan, we have a steering committee of 17 people, which includes leadership from both the Agency of Education and the Department of Labor, so they are connected with us in both ways and, you know, we're good talking.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. So,

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I know. Right? We'll get there. We'll get there. So I see that

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: we have thank you.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yep. Thank you.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I'm gonna give Give you us

[Tom Cheney (Executive Director, Advance Vermont)]: a chance to get work with us.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I think you can go safely. Don't think it'll cut back on. Okay. Thanks. So

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I see we have the chancellor with us. She is ready to go back on. Okay good afternoon. So for the record?

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: For the record I am Beth Malk I'm the chancellor of the Vermont State Colleges System.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. So we had one thing we wanted to talk with you about in particular, which is the higher education cost fund. And we had the request from the suggestion from the Florida Foundation that we understand how the trust fund works. We've learned about the kind of mechanics, how it gets funded, how it goes up and down, etcetera. The question in front of us is a language question about three versus four recipients. And so we're trying to, so we heard from the McLaren Foundation, we heard from PSAC yesterday and Tom said several times, you need to hear from the state colleges. So we're trying to, I think we all, as a committee, have a, like I said, we have a handle on how it works and even if I think a bit of a handle on which, where the most students are, who might be recipients and etcetera and yet at the same time they're all Vermonters no matter where you are. So it's kind of a, I think we're trying to figure out the path forward, but just wanted to hear your thoughts.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I do appreciate this opportunity and I do just want to start by saying, I just want to thank you for looking for ways to increase support for Vermonters who want to attend the Vermont State Colleges System. That really touches me in my heart. And I do appreciate you asking me to share my perspective on the Higher Ed Trust Fund. And let me just start by saying that I will always support a decision that brings more resources to our students who, as you know from my recent testimony, are overwhelmingly Vermonters. And I also want to recognize the work being done in partnership with the McClure Foundation. Their support of initiatives like the Free Degree Promise at the Community College of Vermont and the Registered Teacher Apprenticeship Program with Vermont State University has been meaningful to us and our students. These types of partnerships are incredibly important. They allow us to expand access and respond to the needs of the state, and I appreciate their continued partnership. Since this has come up, I have taken a closer look at the proposal to add another designee to the Higher Ed Trust Fund. And I also have gone back and I reviewed the fund again in light of this proposal, and I listened carefully to the testimony. And I've spoken with our board leadership to make sure that I'm thinking about this in the right way for us as a system as a whole. My perspective is as the chancellor of this system and how we ensure that the system is working together for Vermont. And I just want to remind us that the system today is really different than when the Higher Ed Trust Fund was created. We've gone from five separate institutions to two, Vermont State University and the Community College of Vermont. But we operate as one system, And that's important because our funding structures need to reflect that reality. Today, Vermont State College's system is a designee for the Higher Ed Trust Fund funds, and they are distributed across our two institutions: the Community College of Vermont and Vermont State University. Currently, and I did pull numbers from the last three years, Vermont State University has received roughly 60% of the funds in the last three years, and CCB has received roughly about 40% of those funds each year. And that distribution is driven by our enrollments, our program costs, and financial needs of our students. And it does change from year to year. So, it's been roughly sixty and forty, but the numbers do fluctuate up and down. And again, I just want to say that I will always want more resources for our system. But as a chancellor, and after talking this through with our board leadership, the question we keep coming back to is this, does adding CCV as a separate designee move us further away from the work that we've been doing to get together as one system? Does setting a fixed spending split between institutions undermine the progress that we're trying to make? And maybe most importantly, does it limit our ability to continue distributing these funds based on student demand, program costs, and need as those needs change over time. Now, how significant is that risk? I don't know, but I think this is an important consideration. And, you know, I also have been thinking a lot about this, and if your goal is to increase support for CCV students, I certainly am 100% supportive of that. But I would say that the most effective way to do that then would be to direct those funds to the system rather than splitting them by institution and allow them to continue to be distributed where we find the need is greatest. And I would just like to end by saying that changing the Higher Ed Trust Fund policy is a policy decision for you to make. And I just want to assure you that we are all here with the same goal to support Vermont students. And again, I'm so happy for all the work we've been able to do together. And I do appreciate this opportunity to talk to you about this today, and I'm happy to take any questions.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Senator Rutland. Thank you. Just, thank you for being here. My quick question, can you briefly describe what the fund is used for?

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: So, for us, we are using it for students who have a demonstrated financial need. So, in collaboration with VSAC, our financial aid offices, both those at CCV and VTSU yearly as our students come in and they have financial needs, we take that information and we use that to distribute those funds once other funds have been used. So, it's just a funding formula that we use. And the sixtyforty split is really showing you that as we have done this basically on a financial need basis, it's showing that there is for us a greater need, proportionally 60% to Vermont State and 40% to the Community College of Vermont.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: So, it's fair to say that historically this fund has been used for low income to support low income students?

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Yes, or students with a financial need, yes.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Thank you. A question for the chair, are we, I mean, I know we're supposed to have this done today, but shouldn't we also hear from CCV if they Well, we are.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Yeah, I am CCV, guess.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Yeah, right. Okay, yeah. I didn't know that part. Was.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Several weeks. If I could, so

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: just to kind of paraphrase, I think the recommendation was that the higher ed fund be split four ways, one quarter to UVM, one quarter to BTU. BTU. Is it BTS? You could put CCV as well.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: BTS.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Also was one quarter to EVM, one quarter to VSAC, one quarter to the one half of the state college system, and then the other half to the other half, which is the community college.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: That's the That's the language that's on the table. What I think the chancellor just outlined was a recommendation to take BTSU CCV together as 50% and allow them to distinguish where that funding is channeled based on their own internal needs. And then leave VSAC with 25% and leave UBM with 25%. Is that a correct paraphrase?

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: If you were going to, you know, want to raise the amount of funds that you are giving to Vermont State College's students, you know, I will never say no to money for our students, and yes, that would be my recommendation.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Interesting. Then it makes so then the question is, do UVM and and VSAT have reasons to specifically oppose that.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, because they could get in 25% instead of 33%.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Right. So they both come in and said we oppose that eventually.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Well, UBM, we couldn't get into that.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay. Does VSAT use

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: all their money in Vermont?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: They do and No. No. No. Yeah.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: That's just what it's Vermont students. They could be going somewhere.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah. And that's been that's sore point for some of us.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So I think that's the question before us if you accept. Well, it's Vermont money, I should say.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Let's just say this, I mean UVM, if they get this 50,000,000, that's more than any of these institutions are going to get in decades. And I would support this move to recognize that CCV and the state colleges have distinct needs, but at our request, kind of unify. But those are generally gonna be, you know, higher need students who need the support to make it work at all.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Just to play it out, UVM would have exactly both our view on what we're dealing with. A lot students who need financial aid as well.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Well, I will say as a former trustee of UVM, getting $15,000,000 that won't then bear interest for the rest of the group a Well, pretty big I'm

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: not making my decision based on the $15,000,000

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I guess I'm factoring that.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Are we are we talking about changing the language of the $59,000,000 UVM?

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Yeah, just talking about changing the language. Okay.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I'm just saying it's a good bargain.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So what are, what's people's sense about this? Quarter, quarter, quarter, 50%, or one third, one third?

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I don't just

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: How do I have to

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: make a decision on this Yeah. I don't recall the distribution of students that received this aid. You know what? I remember there was conversation. I don't

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It is gonna depend each year. Probably. Well,

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the number of students at the state colleges, CCV, Vermonter's and Addison is there's a lot more in those two brackets than there are in.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: For mom, it's at UBS. Especially, yeah.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: But but UBM would argue if I'm anticipating this that they're giving financially to promote kids who need financial aid.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So, it's all kind of a

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: But, I mean, and, half of their appropriation has always been mentally designated us to give students in Vermont the ability to go to UBM.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I'd like to ask before yep. Go ahead.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Your opinion on that.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Rebecca Covance, book recommendation. We believe that a split four ways approach is sets a really important policy precedent for recognizing independently those four institutions that support the market.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So then it's quarter, quarter, quarter. Well, that's one possibility. K. Another possibility is quarter, quarter,

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Starts for. Kinda stuff. Wait. What? Did you say quarter, quarter did four quarters?

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Yeah. But 50% of it grows

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Or quarter, quarter half. Yeah.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Where we if we do the quarter, quarter, quarter

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Oh, I see. That is a distinction. Names out. My brain is

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: on. Yeah.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah. Well, okay. Anna, I don't know, I think that you said that you might still like to keep it all in one family, but that is still a value to you that you'd get both quarters ostensibly, like you're still a person receiving all the funds and it probably requires that you be more even handed without putting as many inputs into the calculation, but you're also still getting more money.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Right, and I would also say that it also allows us for fluctuations in enrollment so that, as we are a system, if one of the institutions is growing faster, or if we find that suddenly there's more need in one institution to the other, we can move those resources. It is the power of us being a system as opposed to splitting these and having that hard wall between them.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: But you are getting more money. Like you would be getting more money. Yes. Which is probably a good recognition that you did absorb two systems that both serve different functions.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Yes, yes, yes. More money for our students is something that I will always say yes to. You know, we do have so many Vermonters that are coming that, you know, have a challenge in paying their bills and for college. So, we want to make sure that we are recognizing that always.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Personally, I'd advocate, 25%, 25%, 50%. Just to carry the conversation.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: The question in my mind is how much do I want to fight about this? Like a pre-forty, because it could end up getting changed somewhere else at any point.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: But I will say that I'm respectful of the chancellor's position that we shouldn't keep micromanaging within the state college system and just trust that it'll go to the right place.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Can I ask, maybe we know this, did CCB used to to stand alone with the other three for certain like, because there's always been a like, UVM and state colleges have to get equalized and beat that? Was CCV always fighting for its place in the sun? Like it's really never gotten recognized in it. Is part of the system that the part part the is Another part of

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: the killer for higher ed. Yeah, CCV has always been part of the Vermont Stakeholder System since it was established in the early 60s by the legislature. Right.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Because to be fair, like before your time Beth, Castleton was fighting with Windham, was fighting you know, with Johnson. CCD has always been kind of pushed into the shadows by other fights in higher education. And I mean, I'm a really big proponent of community college. Like, I just think there's a value of saying it's a coach who will partner with the other pillars of higher education.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: And I think adding another element gives another avenue that students might not have,

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the core we're opening up for. So I mean, I'm in mindset for student. Send her a sheet.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I was actually just going to say if, you know, if if we have to decide on this language today?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Maybe we don't. I was thinking about that. Yeah. We could push it.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I I don't think it's hurt.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: The money they need to know. We're

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Yeah, was going say, I don't think it hurts to contemplate further on this and then make a recommendation or language into the W. But I

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: think we can because the money's still there. We can do that. Does any while we have the chancellor here, were there any lingering questions from the State College's budget?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So but I just wanna make sure that the question we're left with is somewhat semantic, but but we're still saying four quarters, not three thirds.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Well, we have three options in place.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Are we still contemplating? Yeah,

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: because there are, I think we have two of the three institutions would suggest them to Right. Leave And then we have, so then if then the question is if we were gonna provide it, that orders is at 15% and it's for the stakeholders. So I'm not opposed to waiting till Tuesday to finish this discussion. Because we actually don't, because I didn't decide this today because it's

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: 1,500,000. So shifting to the budget. Yeah. Would be just to explain that one more time.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Is that for the micro credentials?

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Yes.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Yes, sure. No, thank you. I appreciate an opportunity to talk about that as well. So, one of the things that we know, as I mentioned to you, is that our students are older than they used to be, older than we are usually thinking that they are. That has meant that we've really got to change the way that we're thinking about delivering on higher education. One of those is through micro credentials where students can get a, you know, come in, get something very quickly, and then go out into the workforce and get an employment increase in funds. And so, of the things we'd like to do with this micro credential funding is to look at ways that we can be partnering with businesses and or other entities to do this and to help us with that apprenticeship piece. Because when we are talking about micro credentials, we're typically talking about students at the same time working out in the field. The one example that I gave you last time was actually our registered teacher apprenticeship program that we're working on with the Agency of Education. And we've been working on that, as I mentioned, with the McClure Foundation as well. And for that piece, what we are looking at doing is first of all, having to totally relook at our curriculum and changing it so that it is still the same fundamental curriculum so that the students are still eligible for licensure at the end of it through AOE, but also looking at how we're changing the curriculum, looking at having to have mentor teachers to folks who are working in the schools as they are taking classes. And so, first request for the $1,500,000 would really be to help us in getting that curriculum written very quickly and in also an ability to have teachers who are mentor teachers to folks who are going through this program. And so, it would just allow us to get a leg up to start some of these programs. The McClure Foundation and the Department of Labor are both supporting us currently. The Department of Labor is actually helping us to pay for the curriculum to get changed. And the McClure Foundation is working with us to get a project manager so that as folks are coming in and they are interested in these programs, they have one front door person that they can go to on our campuses. And so it really would help us to just jump start some of these micro credentials that we are looking to start. Just recently, we did receive $2,500,000 from Senator Welch in congressionally directed spending for a composite certificate. That would be more funds that are similar to that. And it's something that we're hoping to partner with Beta on. So, we know that these opportunities are coming up and we would just like an opportunity to be able to really ramp those up and find a lot of, have an ability to create a lot of these because we know that Vermonters and in Vermont really need these kinds of opportunities in higher ed.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: And there

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: was no way to work that in with the current budget, pulled out a separate line item because you didn't have money elsewhere that you could throw at it?

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Yeah, as I said, this is what I would say is sort of an innovation that we're trying. And so we thought, if there were extra funds that we would for an innovation, just try some of these other ones. As I said, we have already partnered with the Department of Labor and McClure Foundation on funding for some of these. It would just be a way for us to jumpstart a few more of them that wouldn't be outside of our regular budget.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I mean, it's related, but I was trying to pull up an article. Where are you with trying to build revenue generation opportunities on your campuses, right? Like Johnson has some surplus housing availability, you know, how are you trying to make some money off of the campuses that are left?

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Yeah, you just mean the facilities in particular?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I mean, creative ways to have revenue generation, you know, and I've often felt like DOL and some of these beta might be some sources for partnership. I remember it probably wasn't you, so we got a request for like an HVAC program from the state colleges, you know, a couple of years ago. I bet some of the HVAC companies would pay for some of that in the state because need workers, you know? So how are you kind of trying to fix the supply chain in ways that are fundable beyond government.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Yes, thank you. No, I appreciate that. We have been looking at it. I've actually sort of, I have hinted at some of them, but let me even just talk about the auto diesel program, which I know has been in the news lately. We have been looking to move that to a credential of value for our students. We are looking at partnerships with the CTEs, but also regional businesses that might have garage facilities where our students can go in and work for those kinds of things. It will allow us to save funds because right now we have a facility for our auto diesel students in Randolph. And so, if we have an ability to work with employers who are looking for auto and diesel mechanics to actually do the practical part of their experience, then that is something that we're looking forward to. Beta, as we're talking to them, we've talked to them about possibly being able to use their facilities for this. Ultimately, of these registered apprenticeship programs do have a piece in them where the apprentices are paid as they are getting the certifications that they need. So, we're looking at that. On the Johnson campus, you're right. So, we are looking at shrinking our footprint as we know, we don't need the buildings that we used to. So, you know, we're in the process of selling the one building on the Johnson campus, which will shrink our footprint, but it will allow for senior housing. We're talking to the Johnson Health Department, Johnson Health Center about moving on to our campus. There are Citizen actually housing, junior, okay, so I was like, you're just transferring the contract. No, no, no senior. Senior, yes. Those are just some of them. We just rented one of the facilities in Linden, but I would say these kinds of innovative pieces are what we're looking at. Then also, are looking, as I've been mentioning, to do a lot with distance education, where we do think that will be a net contributor to Vermont State University, but it will also serve the needs of Vermonters. If we look at the Registered Teacher Apprenticeship Program, you know, if we are looking to work with teachers who are teaching in a school district, they A, can't come during the day, but B also, they probably can't all come at the same time. And so, having distance ed programs will allow us to have something that's a net contributor. So, getting funds in at the same time, we're helping to get many, many more teachers in the state. So, it's all, me, it's like an ecosystem with our buildings, with businesses, with these distance ed, and just moving that forward. And that really becomes the plan for the future for Vermont State University.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. Thanks for coming in.

[Beth Malk (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Thank you. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it. Sorry I couldn't be there in person, but thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: This works well, thank you. Let's, Todd, do you

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: have a question?

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I was saying, was waiting.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay, okay. Let's skip these things for a second just to move quickly in a couple of weeks and reflect it fairly easy. Governor's Institute. The question is, the Governor's Director could bend at level funding at three eighty four or adding 10% as they requested.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Can we rename it from the Governor's Institute if he keeps underfunding either?

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Do what?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Can we rename it from the Governor's Institute if he keeps underfunding it? I mean, this is a very low amount of money.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: The, so the House just, the roundabout, the House left it at the Governor's Recommend. So they're in here, so wish do we, if we, let's, see how I set it up here? Yep. Let's assume level funding, if the question in front of us was level funding, would our response all that was the only option.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Say aye for level funding. High.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: High. High. And medium, well, 10% increase? Medium.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I'd say high because they're

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: for level five at Christmas. So is there anything that would say it's medium?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, we kind of had a little bit of a mix on it.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah, we all say high

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: or low.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay, so we're all high, good question, world level funding, and we're maybe on medium?

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: I'm behind. We were standing. So many others.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I mean, do we do not. I would love to give them everything, but, you know, we also want the letter I I don't know what the letter would look like because the committee, but if, and I know that individually,

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: we've

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: all said medium, high in different areas. If you send a letter that says all these priorities are all high, how serious is the letter going be taken? Is my thought.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I thought about that as well. I think what we're really saying is we're all saying high end level funding. We love the program, there were more money, more would be great.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: They didn't really say they were underfunded, they just said they hadn't gotten an income, right?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: They are underfunded and I try to find private donors for them, I mean, because everyone loves them, but nobody treats it as their priority.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Can we recommend a 5% increase?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We can, we can do whatever we want. We can, yes. Or consider inflation of 4%.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So that instead of like $30,000 $50,000

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So you can give a little more?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Can't we just give up another study somewhere?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Give up. Hey, what do we wanna do? We gotta move.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Your suggestion.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: K. But we could cross out the 10 and suggest four. I think five.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: K. To keep up somewhat with With the

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: a kind of beauty brainer. Big and brainer? Absolutely. And a good start. Okay. So many other higher higher brothers in Grand Skeeti State. In Trojan, okay. I think I got it, I got the, I think I have what we are. Yeah, okay, Farm to School, Parental Childhood programs.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: High and high. There

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: were a couple questions about this yesterday.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yes, too. Actually, I would point you to Betsy is on Zoom she's okay to just speak to why those two programs are different and answer any questions you might have. She runs the Funk to School Network.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. You solved our discussion yesterday, seems like longer ago it was just yesterday, and you're still on mute. Yes. Okay, so for the record, you are?

[Betsy Rosenbluth (Farm to School Director, Shelburne Farms)]: So I am Betsy Rosenbluth. I am the Farm to School Director at Shelburne Farms and representing the Farm to School and Early Childhood Network today. I did not watch, but I got a summary recap of some of the questions trying to distinguish the local food incentive and the Farm to School and Early Childhood Grants program, which I'm happy to fill you in or if there are other questions I could try to answer those as well.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I was

[Betsy Rosenbluth (Farm to School Director, Shelburne Farms)]: kind of fun.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay, thinking, yeah okay, very, just really high level and quickly what it would Yeah, there was some question about whether it's duplicative to other food programs for kids or just kind of touch on that.

[Betsy Rosenbluth (Farm to School Director, Shelburne Farms)]: Okay, sure. So the local food incentive is administered through the Agency of Education Child Nutrition Program. And that program fund all of that funding, there's $500,000 in the governor's recommend. And the request for that funding this year exceeded the amount available, but we're still asking for the for this for this year for 500,000. That all goes to the school as an incentive to buy local food. That's what it's about. Schools spend between 16 and $20,000,000 a year on food, and the goal was to shift more of that spending to Vermont farmers and Vermont producers. And the incentive has worked as an incentive. So every in the the state report, the agency of education report this year shows that every dollar from the local food incentive grants is translating to $3 of local food spending. So even though they only get reimbursed, they don't really get reimbursed, but they get a grant equivalent to either $15.20, or 25¢ per lunch. They're spending more than that on local food that goes directly to Vermont farmers and producers. So that is that piece. We have, you know, as an incentive, doubled local purchasing in schools over the last three years. So we're really happy that that legislation is working. It's distinct from the Vermont Agency of Agriculture's Farm to School and Early Childhood grants, which are one time grants. So the incentive, hopefully, is an ongoing opportunity for schools to maintain and increase their local purchasing. The Agency of Ag Grants are really to support schools building the capacity for farm to school. It does fund some technical assistance. And so there are providers that support schools to figure out who are the farmers, where can I get the food, what do I need to have in place, how do I, you know, address menus and things like that, so that they can access that grant that basically goes towards local purchasing and the food directly? So that's the difference. The the grants also go towards, you know, connecting students with Vermont agriculture. It could go towards materials and supplies. It could go can go towards food. It's a smaller amount and is one time grant. Typically, the food is, like, for a taste test or for a pilot or something that then can lead to a more regular market opportunity for farmers to be selling to those schools. It does cover the cost of an early childhood program. So there is a, the agency administers a subsidized CSA for early childhood because they are not eligible for the local food incentive. But it's not a huge amount. It's maybe 10% of the, grant's budget. So the grant's budget also the governor recommend was 500,000, and that's what we are supporting for this year. So I let me know if there's more clarification needed. They're really different programs. The food incentive is really directly to getting food to the loading dock into the school and to incentivize, because it's not really reimbursing, but it's incentivizing schools to shift those dollars instead of buying what we found out, you know, you're buying apples from Washington State, even though an orchard might be across the street. You're buying dairy from the Midwest, you know, which is crazy in a dairy state. So how do we incentivize and recognize that? And and the ag committees have heard, you know, school nutrition folks have about a dollar 25 to put food on the plate for lunch, just even less for breakfast. So there isn't a lot of wiggle room if a local product is a little bit more expensive or takes a little bit more labor to process. And so the incentive is meant to recognize that, not cover that difference. Other states have more of a reimbursement program, but Vermont uses an incentive to motivate the schools to shift their purchasing to be Vermont farmers and producers. And, you know, I will say that about 150 farms in Vermont, we have a list, are selling to schools in early childhood. You know, some just very small amounts out of their farm store, some much more significantly through forward contracts and other mechanisms.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you. Any follow-up questions for anybody? Hi.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Loadedquestions.com. Yeah. You know, I don't want to go, I don't like to go against governors budget recommendations but in this case, I believe that we're we live in an environment where constantly saturated with budget plus. We've saturated our constituents' ability to pay their taxes. I'm I'm advocating that across the board, we pull back on entitlements so we can refocus money on expenditures that buoy the entire states, economic development, infrastructure, school construction, and housing initiatives. That's why I'm being a bit of a prick about this particular issue. Great program, great intentions, but it's death by a thousand cuts. And I think that we're we've lost focus on trying to raise all the votes with a rising tide as opposed to individual votes and I'll leave it at that. That that's my perspective and I I know that's counter to a lot of politician philosophy, but

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I heard economic development when I heard the institution. I heard that farmers are economic development, and they're hanging on by a thread. This introduces kids to a lot of the food around them and families and we all visited schools and one of the highlights of all of our visits I think was the food. That food was made with love and a lot of them could speak to the farmers and the butchers where they got the food. That's economic development and it's also a lot that's intangible.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: It's okay. We're walk away with a difference of opinion. Sure. I respect the program. I respect your opinion. I'm just trying to explain why I have a very, believe, what appears to be a very counter

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: I was a medium on grants and I

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: accepted and I kind of agreed.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Were

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: paying, schools to buy. So you're a medium? A medium on the grants, and I am

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: a Okay. Okay. Let's keep moving.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Thanks, Betsy.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. University of Hawaii. Believe we'd three major elections in front of us. First one is 3% increase in baseball. Okay.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Oh, hi. Sorry about you. UVF. Yeah.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: 3%? Yeah. Medium. Yeah.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I'm a medium. I'm really not an advocate of set percentage increases for any level of government. It's all zero based budgets. Zero based budget, prove what you need. You don't get an increment, incremental budgeting is so anti, such a negative impression from a business perspective. You just never operate that way. Everyone comes to the table and they prove their value, and I'm not saying UBM hasn't, I'm just saying, know, it's almost immediate.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I'd just argue that 3% is zero based with inflation we've seen. 3% is

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: There's not nothing that's not zero based. Zero based is they prove why they need state treasury for every program, and it sums up to something, if that legitimately sums up to 3% increased grade, but if it doesn't, that's the type of hard government that needs to be

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Please tell Washington to stop raping our cough.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Something about your breathing. Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: A million dollars for five years for UBM Cancer Center.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: That wasn't, it says of, but I don't know if that means or. I think it says that What?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Million dollars for five years towards cancer center. 5,000,000

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: total, really.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: No. Know. In the column about the recommendation Over It it says Did not include the 50,000,000 of 1,000,000 cancer. I'm assuming that means 4, so I'm assuming the House did not do the 50,000,000 for the cancer study. Okay. So, Stanford Center. Emma High. Emma High.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I have, yeah, probably lower than that. Just everything's like, like, I don't know enough. Yeah. Yeah. So I really we've asked, I didn't go about it.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So I think also it's a health and welfare. Like I think they, they need to go to health and welfare for

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: the first How I, how do I know?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: That's right. They got the health and welfare representative.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: $15,000,000 transfer from the Ed Fund, it's more construction of the multi purpose center.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It's not from the Ed Fund, is it?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I'm sorry, Ed Trust Fund. Oh. From education cost fund. Yeah, just a moment.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I'm gonna do a compliment sandwich here. I think UVM's awesome. He kinda convinced my daughter to put it higher on her list.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Maybe if they had a great exercise facility in their new multi year.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: I think it's a great place. I love it. I'm glad it's part of Vermont. That being said, I think the 15,000,000 from the Higher Ed Trust Vaunt going to build an arena is absolutely the wrong move. If there was an option below level, I would check that. I recommend just striking it from this as an option. That being said, I hope they're able to find money elsewhere. I hope that the facility does get built, and I think it would be an economic boom not just for the region but also the state. But you know, we heard earlier that the fund is used for helping low income students and to take 15,000,000 to build an arena seems extremely it seems like a bad idea. So I guess low unless we've just. It

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: won't work out. Yes.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So I'm I'm actually a high but not from the trust. Yeah. Two other points. I mean, do we need it? We should figure it out. We we should find find appropriate money, but it's not not the end point.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: If there's general fund money for it, I'm a high associate.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I I actually like that language, high, but not from us. Yes. Yeah. I'd go over that. I'm

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: glad right. I I think I think should become a passella. It's probably gonna be the Tarrant.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yes. Well, there you go.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: And but they are giving a lot of money to match the They're not still working. All amount

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: due to date of.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I haven't read that.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: The only one left is. It's page three. We had this discussion yesterday about them. 27,000,000, so it can't be 27,000 space. That's gotta be where is it actually here? Yep. Yes. So base funding, 3% increase. I'll start high.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: High. High. Is the rest what they're gonna use that increase for? I think

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: they're a pretty efficient organization. Yeah, no doubt. And I read organizations, yeah.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I think they gave more than the 3% increase.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: What do you mean you're thinking about? Oh, okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Governor, so the governor recommended was 3%. Doesn't say what the House did.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It does. The other

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Oh, three no. You're right. Yes. Both 3% base. Can we go along with that?

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Majority groups, I guess you can't. Well, no. It has met. Look. Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I'm writing down everything I'm saying. I'm writing down one.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: You have abstained.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I can abstain. Again, I'm

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: a medium without approved 3%. One, two, three, the medium and I'm saved. Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Authority used $400,000 from that base funding for Innovative Career and College Aspirations Initiative.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: It's coming out of the base funding, it's kind

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: of, I

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: mean, I don't know that we necessarily should be voting on that.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Well, except that what they asked us, they need they need the authority. So in terms of giving them authority to do it, I'm alright.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I mean, I don't always like doing set aside because I don't think we need to bless that.

[Terry Williams (Clerk)]: I think we have to for some reason

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: because they need the authority. I don't know why, but they do. Maybe

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: because they're not giving it for students to go to higher ed, it's aspiring to higher ed?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: $84,000 for dual enrollment in college, I can't even imagine, but that's

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: That's level five, so I'm only looking at the ones that look above and beyond in the on the blue side.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So we're, well, I didn't fix the glitter on this one, so forget the glitter, it's really interesting. 84,000.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I don't what's hard for me is I think that's part of something else. I don't know that the house made a decision on the eighty fourth

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: What I just put in. What's important? So small, it's just

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It's small, not a huge fan of the money it may be sucking away from schools and AP classes right now at the high school level.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I don't.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: But I'm not gonna be right about this.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We have heard that.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Yeah. I mean,

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: yeah. I think some of what we were afraid of ten years ago when we created dual enrollment is coming today.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So we're going medium with this one? Right. 5,000,000, I think what, dollars 2,000 increase.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: $2,000,000 increase, which that house did put in.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: For what program? I didn't put in.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It says forgivable loan. Oh, forgivable loan program. To support current demand for a program for forgivable loan incentive.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Is this specific? Like, is this the nursing program and the teacher program or no? To me, that's high, but it's not. I don't know what the broker is.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Architects, Tom Little, but I

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: think it is just the forgivable loan, I don't think this one is for ASMIS. Seems so. Tex Richey. Million 5 for mental health professional loan program? We know we have a real shortage of mental health professionals. Long, so it's a

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: loan program? Yeah. Oh, loans.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay, so high, high, high, high. I'm assuming, yeah. Sure.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It's not in something. I can't tell if so the 2,000,000 didn't make it in the gov's or the house. The 1.5 didn't make it in, and then it's cut off.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. It did make it, so we should probably wanna just suggest level on that one. On which well, what if these are all this this with my my letter I'm tearing down, but it would be the it's the each. It's the $205,000,208.09. And so the question is do we support the increase or do we support the level of funding? Governor and the House level of funding. Which one would you recommend? H. H. What? We went back up to H.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I'm in the spreadsheet.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We're not doing the $2,000,000, we're not recommending the $2,000,000

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay, it didn't make it into

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the house. Yeah, or the We're doing no one, the 2,000,000. Okay. Yes on

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: we going to read that correct too? Are we no, yes, or no on the mental health?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: No. I gave you a high. Oh,

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay, great. So you didn't know that I said yes. Two

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: million three, eight hundred thousand hour releases for the treatment of this fall trip. She's been on

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: the student day one. What does that do again?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: It's LGBTQ, so I forget the range. Do you happen to know?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I, do you want to speak about it? Freedom and

[Rebecca Ramos (Vermont State Colleges System)]: Freedom and Unity, this is Rebecca Ramos with the Vermont State College System. Freedom and Unity is for students that are, this one in particular, so this increase coming from the House is for students under $80,000 a year.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And otherwise, it's 60,000 a gap, right?

[Rebecca Ramos (Vermont State Colleges System)]: This closes the gap, yep, from last year.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So, without it, you're only able to bump it down to $60,000 or less, right?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: 60,000, 65. Yes. I think it would be at 65.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Above 65, okay, this gets it up to 8. Yes. In a way, it's what we'll do, right? Yes. Aye. Aye. Yes.

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I'm gonna caveat this. So if and this is no surprise. If Freedom if the Freedom and Unity scholarships were coupled with commitments,

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: like remaining in

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: the state commitments and programs, guidelines that were focused on Vermont's labor needs, I'd be high. But without that, I'm alone. That's just how I feel. Okay. Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I gotta put this together, and I'll send it to people. This is the weekend, and you give me feedback if I got something wrong. Try to capture where we were. Sometimes it's hard to capture. Okay. With that, so we have to Tuesday, have to go back and make a decision on for a physician on that.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: And then, like, run over to probes?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, we'll have time. Okay. Because the dollar amount doesn't change, so I think if we, so remember it's third, a third, a third,

[David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: a

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: status quo, quarter, quarter, quarter, or quarter, 50%.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So I think also the thing is they're not voting a bunch about Tuesday. This is a policy change and it sounds like GovOps is devolving this policy change or the discussions about the higher interest fund to us.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Gotcha. So

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I think we should, like, invite witnesses maybe and, like, spend some time on it.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. It's funny. It's a bit of a

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: This is a big deal. It's a big deal.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: What are you talking about?

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I don't know. Like, understanding the marriage arrest fund and what we'd be doing right now. Like, are we do we have that authority? And this is a big decision. Does appropriations care that we're making this decision?

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Well, think we're not making it because we're making recommendation to appropriations.

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Because they're the ones who would have

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: to change the budget language. Okay.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: This is about, so we're talking this year I think we're talking about

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: But this is a permanent change.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Right? Yes, permanent change and we're talking about an impact of about $250,000 on an institution of The United States. No,

[Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I get it. Yeah. But I guess, like, someone just clear it that they want this from us and that we have the authority to make this recommendation.

[Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. Okay. I think we do. We have the authority to make recommendations.

[Nader Hashim (Member)]: Okay.