Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We're Senate Education Committee. We're back for a short break. We're going back to each, nine forty one in the Selena Z Bill. And we have with us the reporter of the bill and chair of this, of the House Education Committee. I'd like Conlon. Right. So

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: yeah, Peter Conlon, House Education. Page nine thirty one has a lot of pages, but not a lot of, sort of, most of that is sort of necessary. We just go very quickly, section by section. The part under the category of moratorium on approval of new approved independent schools is really to clarify that that moratorium was not to apply to the sale of an existing therapeutic independent school that could use operation as an independent therapeutic school. The remnants necessary, one would think, well, yeah, it shouldn't apply. The State Board of Education, which is in charge of proving independent schools, felt otherwise that it was creation of a new LLC, because legal opinion they got was that was creation of a new independent school. So this is to clarify that that was not the intent. If it's maintaining an existing one, it's just going to have a new owner, again, with new LLC.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So when we went through this with counsel, Senator Ram Hinsdale asked the question, should we eliminate the moratorium on therapeutic altogether because they're in such demand? I'm sure you've had that discussion.

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: We did and did it, I think from a philosophical point of view, I think the hope is that if we move to shared service agencies and shared services, whether it be through SUs or SVs or CISAs, that the way to meet that demand is using the infrastructure that we have and that the sort of to remove the moratorium on therapeutic schools, sort of take away from the push to make those services as close to where students are as possible. Okay. We've had some sort of, I have

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: really only speak for myself. Know, what had, we've had some testimony from districts about efforts they're making do

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: what you're talking about, and you have to understand them. Okay, so we know why. Yeah. Okay. The second part is the Interstate Compact for Education. This is at the Education Commission of the States. Nobody knows why, but in the early '90s, we left. We had always been a member of the Interstate Compact for Education. No one could tell me why, WSN3R, why we left it. However, as long as I have been here, which is my tenth year, we have been availing ourselves of their services and have been, I would call it, sporadically paying dues to it without actually being a full member, because I don't think until we really started diving into this, we understood that full membership then, we had to readopt all of the compact language in order to be a full member, which not only gets us the services, but also gets us part of its future and being a part of a voting member of its future. ECS, Education Commission of Estates, which is what this really is, they're often the people you go to when you say, How is this done in other units? They will provide us with a full study, provide some testimony, comparing how states and agencies. They provide regional gatherings, not just legislators, but of people of all parts of the field. I was at one in Hartford earlier in the fall that was really rather helpful as New England City, some people were there, could compare notes on how we are addressing various things. So anyway, we're already paying the dues, it was already in the budget, we paid it last year as well, So it seemed logical that if we are going to be paying the dues and being that trying to be members of it, we should adopt the compact so we also have sort of ownership in it as well.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: But that's that. There's a lot of

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: occasions at this. But it

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: has no regulatory impact at all. That's right. Policy development.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I'm gonna jump back to section one just for a second. I was wondering if the committee took any testimony on therapeutic school deserts. Could you talk about serving those students? So

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: we had the folks in who we I think had joint hearings with as well, maybe that was with Ways and Means, I can't remember, but the special education folks from Vermont to talk about this. Oh, to talk about special ed in general, talk about where there are challenges, where where there continues to be challenges. I mean, we, we continue to have school districts that cannot serve students with pretty specific needs because they don't have a or they don't have a policeman available. So it certainly exists. I'm not even sure that there are deserts. Think you could say that it's a

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: challenge throughout the state. Okay. So then that didn't lead to any discussion of doing away with

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: the moratorium on therapeutics? I would say it didn't really, you know, we, it was sort of all was happening at the same time that we were investigating what CSAs can do, shared service agencies, I think that there was just more motivation to get that going so that we are serving students closer to home and at a lower cost.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Get that bit, but if there's not school seats available for those students. And I'm just wondering Yeah. Why, you know, why didn't you kind of kind of dismiss the concept? Well, mean, were

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: we were really mostly focused on this one narrow issue. It, okay, thank you. Okay, we're up to page 15. This is the class size dental language. I'm sure as you heard from legislative council, this was really just meant to sort of sync up rule making and statute. The statute exists, and it has class size minimums in statute. That also requires rulemaking, which didn't happen automatically either. Rulemaking is going on,

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: and this is just

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: to say that what we started talking about not meeting class size minimums over three years, that that begins once rule making is complete, or by the date we have here, July, whichever date comes first.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So effectively, we can push them back.

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: More or less, yeah. Oh, and then the final part of miscellaneous education bill was a request from the agency to allow them to be able to do criminal background checks on people they hire or contracted who might be interacting with students. Might be what? Oh, interacting with students. Yeah. And the sort of language that is in here is essentially based on the same language statute that governs criminal background checks versus court intent of the deceased.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So don't they do, don't you have to have the benefits already?

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: In this case, the agency was asking for their own ability to do it rather than having to go through sort of the central system that is operated by the state, takes considerably longer. This might be a question for the agency, but I'm looking at line seven on page 16. And the contact with the students, why unsupervised, and why not just strike that word and have it be supervised or unsupervised? Yeah. I'm not gonna answer that as a a policy choice. Oh, I sound just like legislative council, though. But I think that there probably is a question that, to say, lots of folks are in schools with students supervised who don't have to get criminal background checks because they are supervised, and so it may be consistent that if you are supervised, you don't need a criminal background check. But all of a sudden, you say supervised and unsupervised. Does that open it up to every parent who is and helping having to get a fingerprint background check even though they're in there with the teacher the whole time? I'm I'm just thinking out loud here. Definitely a better question for council. At AOE. Senator Ortiz? Just curious.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So I understand section 14 really came out of AOE. This was a request from them. Yeah. Did they quantify how many, what cost, if there's availability in the state to actually perform this function. If there's a background check backlog.

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yes. This, I think, would be separate and apart from the backlog. We have a problem that has existed since I've been here, is ten years of criminal background checks, especially folks who are both interacting with CVD, having childcare, and pre K, and there is a back Or it seems to take a long time.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Can I go back on So is this Before you go over, I actually don't meant Does this make the so this doesn't really do make the system go more quickly?

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah. This is really just for Aon employees or contractors. To So not school district in Florida. And it's just saying they have to do it, not not making that actual act of getting it done easier. Correct. Okay, correct. Okay, yes. If I can, unless there's another question on '14, back to 13 just for a sec. Got a question on, so EQS, EQS has minimum class sizes now, right? No, I do not believe EQS has minimum class sizes now. That'd be a better question for somebody else, but I'm pretty sure it has maximum or average class sizes, but I do not believe it has no class sizes. No question, think. But verify now with somebody with a better global expertise on the QS. Thank you.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And I know that know that the, know, Lawrence thought this was a relishion to get some, so, you

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: know, lot of pain, just not much there.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Any other questions? I agree. I I know of any of you guys mentioned the answer of the notes and the sympathystical note. And I know some of them.

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Yeah. I'll think we have the epistle note.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I think that's what I said.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah. Epistle mode, so you got a two pager.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Oh, that makes no big deal. Yeah. That's yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Alright. Thank you all very much.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for coming in, Adam. Sure. Coming Sure. Back up. I think we're happy to see that. So I was putting together You wanna give me some chocolate.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: You're the wrong day. Oh, I'm the wrong day.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Jean Jean Goo. Yeah. Come on. You go. So this came up, I was gonna say, for three hundred weeks, just really wanting to dive in a little bit more to the notion of the colleges having a Yeah, I appreciate the question. Just wanted to take advantage of the opportunity to kind of step back in a little bit. Yes. And if you were here earlier for the record

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: For the record, I'm Beth Bongartz, the Chancellor for the Blanc Psychologist. And I do have a presentation to address the safety and I do want to thank you all for having me today. I'm always excited to come and join you. And I did wanna walk through our strategic vision and how we are aligning the state colleges with Vermont's needs. And I do just wanna be clear from the start that this is one system, the Community College of Vermont and Vermont State University. We work together as a unified system to serve all Vermonters. So as we all know, Vermont is facing real challenges. We have workforce shortages, demographic declines, and access issues in rural areas. Our job as the system is to make sure that our system is directly aligned to solve those challenges. Fundamentally, this access, this is about access, making sure that whether you live in Hardwick or Coldleaf or Burlington, you have the same opportunities. We are seeing real differences in access and opportunity across Vermont. Our role is to better align our system with the realities and expand access so opportunity is more evenly within reach. One of the things, since I've been the chancellor here now for two and a half years, we now really have serious focus that will transcend several years. And the three main focus comes in three buckets. First is a workforce. Second is on student success. And the last is in our infrastructure or buildings and facilities. With workforce, it will be our goal to align directly to Vermont's needs. With student success, what we wanna do is make sure that we are teaching practical, relevant information that leads to jobs because really jobs is what drives student success. As our facilities, what we're trying to do is make sure that they are used in the ways that best serve today's students. We're doing this again as one unified system, really thinking of the Community College of Vermont and Vermont State University working together using hybrid learning, campus partnerships and center partnerships and shared programs really that will serve the whole state. Now, the other thing that I've mentioned several times when I've been here is that our students look different than what most folks think. They're not all just our traditional 18 year old residential students. Many of them are Vermonters who are balancing work, family, and education. Please remember that 83% of our students across both institutions are for honors, so we are serving Vermont. They are place bound, often working, and they're looking for flexible and practical pathways that lead to opportunities for them. So our model is gonna have to be to adapt, being more flexible in our delivery, having more online and hybrid opportunities, and then pathways that are working for real lives. Now, this has not been a top down idea. This isn't just coming from me. It reflects a deliberate process on my part. I have listened across our campuses and centers, across our communities and our employees. I have reviewed enrollment and completion data. We've assessed our financial realities and we've learned from other systems around the country. And we've aligned Vermont's workforce and community needs. In other words, this is grounded in what we're hearing and what we're seeing and what Vermont needs. This isn't theoretical. We are already expanding short term and non degree programs, strengthening pathways, and building options for working adults. We're doing this based on direct input from employers and partners across the state. With us being a system, we are now building seamless pathways from the Community College of Vermont to Vermont State University and back again, from high schools to Vermont State University, from Vermont State University back to CCB. Really thinking of this broad swath of felt learners that we've got to serve. And this really wasn't happening before we became this unified system. Next, I also just wanna ground this in our financial reality of what we're managing. First, I do appreciate both the governor and the legislature. The House has agreed to our general fund request. We appreciate that. And I'm very proud to be here today to tell you that in our FY '27 budget, this will be the first year of the five years where we have not requested bridge funding. We are extremely thankful to the legislature for that bridge funding, but we have been very conservative and tried to really make sure that our funds have gone, you know, the length. And what we also know for this year is that we know that we will have a small budget deficit for Vermont State University, but we are prepared to bridge, self bridge that small deficit this year and that has been a direct result of our prudent financial management. So I'm very proud of Peter to tell you all about it. Next, I also know that last time I was here there was a question on our global commitment request. So I just wanna describe that in common terms. This again is a direct workforce investment. The fact of the matter is that Vermont needs more nurses and allied health professionals and this specific funding helps us to pay our faculty and our clinical training capacity required to produce the nurses and other healthcare professionals that we need throughout the state. Without this capacity and this fund, we cannot meet the demand of the state, regardless of student interest. This funding comes through the Global Commitment to Health, Global Commitment to Health Waiver, a combination of federal Medicaid and state funds. The Global Commitment Investment Fund allows Vermont to leverage federal dollars to build healthcare workforce capacity. And next, I also want to So just to make sure

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I understand, let's go back It's to that the 306,008 difference recommend on a different

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: So line

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: on top of what we saw on the former slide?

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: So there are two elements of this particular item. The three zero six is a general fund that is in the governor's recommended. It is also in the House's budget right now. And then the second item, the 1,500,000.0 is the Medicaid or the global commitment dollars is a grant that is also in the governor's recommendation and it is in the House budget today, but it is a grant that comes out of the global commitment dollars that are funded by the sources that Beth just mentioned.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay, so I just wanna make sure for our budget letter, this is on top of the for us for the previous slide. It's different. Yeah, different.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: It's all

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: lines of money, sure I understand it.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: So in your budget, there are two separate lines. There are the standard lines for the base appropriation and then these lines for allied health.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Both of which were in the Governor's recommend and approved by the House. Correct.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Next, I just want to jump to our facilities and also connect the facilities to the realities that we're facing. Our buildings are one of our largest costs and one of our greatest opportunities. So we've developed a clear plan to make sure that these facilities serve the needs of Vermont going forward. Our plan is straightforward. Every space must be actively used We will bring in partners where we have excess capacity and we're gonna right size where that's necessary. We are actively, even today, looking at how every space is being used and how it might be used in the future. Fundamentally, this is not about one campus. It's about a system where every campus plays to its strengths and serves its community. In some cases, those are academic spaces and in others, they're partnerships like K-twelve partnerships for community use or housing. We're not preserving the buildings for their own state. We are making sure that they are actively serving Vermont. Our plan is not to wind down campuses, but to revitalize them by expanding their role as community centered assets. And so this is the approach that we're putting into action, and I just wanna give an example from the Johnson Campus. There is something we're calling the Johnson Campus Apartment Complex Project. This is a partnership model that addresses both student and community needs and it leverages external investments and activates underused campus assets. We are requesting $1,000,000 for the development of costs to make this project shovel ready. It's a model that we can apply in other locations once this one is successful. We've been working with Art Klugo who was behind the beta expansion up in Burlington. And it's really exactly what we mean when we're talking about these things. Using our campuses to solve real world problems for students and communities. We really can't afford not to do this. Our campuses have to be part of the solution for Vermont in housing, workforce, and community needs.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We had Vermont Housing Conservation Fund in the Natural Resources Committee this morning and they've mentioned the housing project, believe at Johnson is what they were talking about.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: That's the down Oh that's a down project. Okay, also, I'll give you another good example. So there is a, we've been looking at a number of partnership opportunities. Several years ago, actually as I just arrived, there was a Sanders congressionally directed spending fund that came out that was for what is now down the street to take the McClellan Building on the Johnson Campus, which is slightly far away from the campus, and turn that into senior housing. In addition to that, they then went out and applied for disaster relief grant which they received. So they will purchase that building from us, they will build senior housing and that will be on our campus. And that's really just another good example of how we're using the Johnson Campus to make sure that we're revitalizing these campuses. Now, what also is the benefit to our students in this? Just imagine having students who have an opportunity to do internships at a senior housing facility and maybe they could live in one of these Johnson apartments. In addition, we've been talking to the Johnson Health Center which is in the flood plain down in Johnson. They are interested in moving on to our campus. We'll probably do so this spring. Other opportunities for our students and then also just having a doctor's office that's really close to them will be so important. So the Johnson example really is I think one of our best examples for how I think that this will look. Working for community partners where there are opportunities for our students and opportunities really to make those campuses more vibrant as we're moving forward. Again, as the needs of our students don't need, so our students don't always need physical campus presence to do academics, but they do need them for some of these other opportunities to do hands on learning. Over the next five years, we're gonna be focusing on aligning our programs, rightsizing our footprint, and expanding our workforce pathways. Over the long term, this is really gonna be about fully aligning what we offer, programs and facilities with Vermont's needs. And we're not maintaining the status quo. We really are aligning the system to deliver for Vermont. And we are so grateful, again, for your support in all of this, and we're committed to building a system that delivers for tomorrow. Thank you all for having me, and I'm happy to take questions.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yes. Addressed, how do you address public safety of students by merging with the general population? Well,

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: we have public safety certainly on our campuses now. I would look at this just as UVM in the middle of Burlington does. We have public safety, but obviously we're very close partners with safety and other regions. So again, these campuses will just become community centers where they'll have an opportunity to interact with a larger community at a closer proximity.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Questions, So I believe this is the right name, workforce development office under economic development. You work with them to understand the labor needs of the state?

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: If you mean the workforce board that we have here or which?

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: The Vermont's, I think it's Workforce Development Office.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Oh, yes.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Just, anyway, let me back up. Understanding Vermont's labor needs over the next five to ten years.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Who do you

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: work We work with

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: the states and certainly with Lyle Jackson in economic development. We work with under the Department of Labor, they have a workforce area right on that with Savannah and Drake.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: That's right. And

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Tiffany Walker, who works for us and does workforce for both Vermont State University and the Community College of Vermont, sits on the labor board, excuse me, as a workforce board for the state. We are using data, as a matter of fact, that has been one of the things I've been pushing as the chancellor. So when we start to look at, okay, what's the power of a chancellor in a state, so just remember we could be doing this for the whole state, I have been going and looking for ways to work with the Department of Labor to get more information for us on workforce needs, on how students are graduating, what they will need because ultimately what this is going have to be is about us addressing needs that we might not know exist today. I'm very excited about that.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay, so that's all positive. I'm wondering how it's affected your academic programs or your course offerings.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: I think in a positive way so what's very exciting is that our program array which is what we call it really has to meet the needs of Vermont it is a continuous improvement process. So what we have been doing, actually for many, many years, but are really looking, especially as we get a new president on board to do, is to have a more deliberate process where we are looking at programs, looking at class sizes, looking at the needs of the state, a lot of the data you're talking about, looking at all of the data that we have incoming to say what are the needs of Vermont? Actually, a really good example of this that has been in the news lately is our auto and diesel mechanic program. So we have been looking at that. We know that they're under enrolled and we also know that we need mechanics of this state. I mean, how long do we wait to have our cars done? And what we found was that the vast majority of jobs, so again, looking at data, don't meet the associate degrees that we have been preparing. And so we are looking at moving to an industry recognized credential and a stackable industry recognized credential. In addition, since we've been working with the Department of Labor, there are potentially workforce Pell dollars out there that we will be able to leverage with these pieces so that students can do these programs for free and we are looking to hopefully partner with CTE so that we can get this kind of great training for students all around the state.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay, so what I was, what I'm really looking for is like knowing what you know about labor, expectations over the next several years, like which programs are ramping down, which programs are ramping up, which facilities are being repurposed, if any, you know, with that. It's kind of like you're projecting. You you had a slide 12 had ten year, five year goals, ten year goals, etcetera, which is certainly appropriate. I'm just wondering how what net effect it's had on program offerings or help, you know, just how you work to fit that?

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: So, in the shorter term as we are looking at programs, if we're talking about programs and facilities, know, as I said, we review every year data that we have just to see which programs have students' class average size is usually one of the data points we use in addition to what are the work force needs of the state. And so, we have looked, I will say Vermont State University is brand new. We're not who we were in 2019. And so really looking at what are the programs that are out you know, starting to really review our program arrays again and saying, okay, now that we have been Vermont State University for two and a half years, what will that mean for some of these programs? So, a couple of examples, we have been looking at a science, environmental science, we have it at Castleton and Johnson, so what does that mean? What are the needs of the state and how will we do that? So looking at all of that data, running it through a process with our faculty, we will be looking to do it. The auto diesel program also is another good example. Had a couple of concentrations in English programs where we have a lot of overlap and so we put those down. Talking about adding though, we did recently get some congressionally directed spending from Senator Welch's office to do a composite search up again, so that would be something that we are adding. It's going to be an organic process but used with data. Again, the facilities, I can give you hard examples of facilities for today. Kingston Meets Supervisory District that was also just announced will be in the Harvey Building in the fall, starting in July. And then what we've been able to do is look for a new home for the folks that were in that process so that they will have more vibrancy and be closer to other students but still have the same quality and quality academic experience that they've had. So I can give you very clear examples for this year or next year. Really part of this is just following the process of program review and program array, following the process for our facilities, using data that we had, the master plan that we got just as I arrived, so just looking at a lot of different data points to take a moment.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: You. So, like using environmental science as an example, end up concentrating that on one campus. So, what we're going to

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: do for next year, the board actually at our last meeting said, why don't we start now looking? So, know, we've been at Vermont State University now for only two and a half years, getting in 2023. How is it that we're going to look at some of these programs that we have on several campuses and to see are we leveraging our assets. Really this all winds up being how are we best using our assets to meet the needs of students and so that will be the review process that we're going to do in this upcoming year. The direction we're working.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Curiosity question. What percentage of of your students would you say are attending via some type of state funded scholarship or federal funded scholarships?

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Oh, probably nearly 100%. It's not 100%, it's close. Our students really need help. We have a Freedom and Unity grant that has been approved. It's a game changer for our students. I think I've mentioned that our students in Vermont and families who are feeling financial pressures from all around sometimes just look at the cost of education and say, I'm not even going to do this. Forget that we even get them to the point of, I want to be a teacher, I want mechanic, but they say I can't even afford that. These kinds of programs really will help us and our students to actually say yes, I might be able to do college because I can afford it. Affordability really is the number one reason. When we talk about access, it's affordability and then flexibility.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Would it be fair to say that the scholarships, the unity, unity?

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Freedom and unity and freedom to opportunity for us. Are

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: not tied to the actual state's labor needs? Those are not because what we feel is, again,

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: we do have some scholarships that are tied to those needs.

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Healthcare is great. Healthcare is a

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: good example. We've been working with even some other funding to see what can we get scholarships for teachers. Step one really is there are many Vermonters who look at the cost of an education and say, I'm not even going to consider that. And so this is our way and to be able to say yes, I actually could do college, I can try this, I can maybe try a class or two and see if I can be successful, see what's out there, figure out the four or five different things that they might want to be. If I only had a nursing scholarship, then someone who's thinking they want to be a teacher may think, oh, then college isn't for me. So those are deliberately broad so that we can really start to recruit as many students. It really winds up being the open end of

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: the funnel for the system.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. So it's interesting that at end of the day, a number of the, at least it used to be that many of the scientists who ended up in fish oil, they came through the and it's interesting to think about the cost of the opportunity for the college and one of the campuses to add spectacular program in environmental science, makes sense on the one hand. On the other hand, the downside, and I think, what we sort of was suggesting on the slides earlier, is that the people who are adults who work in place kind of settled that it's here that they don't have access to it. So if you've got Bridge, you've got the challenge. It's interesting. If you had all 18 year olds who were coming in with the dorms, they call sensible, put that one in one place, be one of our adults, I actually go to that campus. It's a little more complicated than that.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: It is, I mean, we're trying to make sure that we are serving all of our volunteers. Certainly, in addition to just Shirley's distance programs that are fully asynchronous and online, another great program we've had is what we're calling Facebook A plus So it is possible for a student on the Linden campus who is maybe an olderology student to also take one of the gen eds down on the Castleton campus because we have this great technology now. So that is one of the ways that we could serve the needs of a student who was poised out and not able to get to another, one of the campuses. Also, a lot of times with some of these programs where there are apprenticeship type experiences with them, so applying apprenticeship, What we see is having distance options for the actual academic learning, the classroom learning, the online, so that they can do the practical hands on learning in their classrooms also. But we're also looking at some other really cool things. So, I'm looking at those VR cameras for nursing students, which is something that's out there so that you could even maybe potentially do some of your nursing practicum experiences sort of anywhere. So we're trying to really be on the cutting edge of what's next. This is this notion of what's next, how do we leverage what's next, really looking into all of that.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, that's actually interesting. Think about a completely remote education, it's not great, but a class here and there, while you're doing it, like, really could work really well. Fantastic. And

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: for some folks, you know, a lot of times we hear people say, I would really like this to be in person, but then it doesn't fit into their lives. So we really do have to be able to think about how can they fit college into their life. You know, are you taking care of a parent? I have a child who's in school that I've gotta pick up. I've got a job that makes me place bound. This might be the only way I can actually access that education. Thank you.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, thanks, glad you came in.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: No, thank you, I appreciate it. Anytime, we'd be happy to come.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Charming is perfect, we understand your blood request better.

[Sophie Zdatny (Chancellor, Vermont State Colleges System)]: Okay, good.

[Representative Peter Conlon (Chair, House Education Committee)]: Well, thank you.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thanks.