Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: We're live.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Good afternoon. This is the, Senate Education Committee on behalf of the Board of Chief. We have, I think, four school board members from different parts of the state, open person and online to testify today. Give us input on the draft map, and I hope that everybody who is gonna testify saw that the map changed slightly yesterday. It may not be making a huge difference the way or the other, but the map did change slightly yesterday. So we are starting with Jason Miller from the Thalidomian Cooperative Center.

[Jason Miller (Board Chair, Caledonia Cooperative School District)]: Yes. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Jason, let me interrupt because I forgot to do something we should have done, which is introduce the committee. So we have two members missing. One is Senator Ram Hinsdale from the Chittenden District. Forget which one but Chittenden. Senator Hashim from the Windham District. And I know that Senator Ram Hinsdale is on her way. She'll be here in a minute. Not sure if that's Senator Hashim,

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: but then next, David Weeks representing Rolling County.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And I'm Seth Bongartz, I represent the Bennington Senate District.

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Terry Williams also from Rollington District.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Steve Heffernan, Ashton County District.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. So, without further ado.

[Jason Miller (Board Chair, Caledonia Cooperative School District)]: Great. Fantastic. Thank you everyone and it's a it's a pleasure to be here in front of you today. So, I'm the board chair for the Caledonia Cooperative School District, which comprises of, Waterford, Walden, and Barnett

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: as

[Jason Miller (Board Chair, Caledonia Cooperative School District)]: well. So, I believe you you have the testimony as a written form, but now I'm gonna go through that, a testimony. So, the title of this community statement on local school preservation and governance structure. This is testimony from the Caledonia Cooperative School Board representing the towns of Waterford, Barnet, and Walden in the Northeast Kingdom. Honorable members of the Senate Committee on Education, thank you for this wonderful opportunity to testify today. I speak on behalf of the Caledonia Cooperative School District and the many parents, caregivers, educators, and residents of Waterford, Barnet, and Walden. Where we want to share our thoughts on the topic of supervisory unions and school districts. Our community is writing our community is writing to express our position regarding the future governance structure of our elementary and middle schools. We are committed to local preservation and recognize the critical importance importance of this decision. However, we need more information before we can responsibly decide between a supervisory union or a school district model. We have identified several key differences between the two proposed structures. The school district would provide greater operational efficiencies at the central office and school board level. In contrast, a supervisory union would preserve enhanced local control across all participating communities. Additionally, we are particularly interested in the supervisory union's framework for voluntary mergers following formation, which would allow our community to retain smaller, locally governed school boards rather than consolidate into a single large district administration. Our community faces significant concerns that must be addressed before proceeding. The geography and the distance between our schools present challenges for shared services and coordination. Regardless of which model we adopt, importantly, we need clarity on whether the foundation formula would apply equally to both supervisory union and school district structures as this mechanism is essential to preserving our local control and decision making authority. Before we can make an informed decision, we require answers to several critical questions. First, would the foundation formula apply to both governance models? Second, what would be the specific cost saving differences between the supervisory and school district models? These financial and structural details are essential to evaluating which approach best serves our community's interests. Regardless of the chosen model, School choice has to be preserved. We believe that maintaining robust school choice options is fundamental to our community's educational philosophy. Families must retain the ability to select educational programs in schools that best meet their children's individual needs, learning styles, and aspirations. School choice empowers empowers parents as partners in their children's education and ensures that schools remain responsive and accountable to the families they serve. Any governance restructuring that limits school choice or reduces educational options would be fundamentally contrary to our community's beliefs and educational priorities. We look forward to receiving the detailed information necessary to make that decision to protect our community's educational interests, preserves, local autonomy, and maintains mean meaningful school choice for all our families. In conclusion, in requests, we maintain our local elementary and middle schools. We preserve Vermont school choice model, and we publish the full data criteria analysis used to create the map and why s use are better than s d's or vice versa. We are ready to partner constructively with the committee to find solutions that protect student opportunity, respect family, invest, investments, and preserve the social and economic vitality of Waterford, Barnet, and Walden and the surrounding region. Thank you for listening for and for your careful consideration of these very real impacts these decisions will have on our children and our town. Respectfully submitted Jason Miller.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. A couple quick questions. There may be more. So just to make sure I understand, you operate in k through eight pre k through eight. Is that right? And then high school choice?

[Jason Miller (Board Chair, Caledonia Cooperative School District)]: Yep. So, in our district, we are pre k through eight and then school choice for high school and predominantly, I'd say 95% of our kids go to Saint Johnsbury Academy or Linden Institute but there are some that go to other high schools as well.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. And we're looking to have a map that in the end between the S Es and the gray area and the SUs in the color that have we get to like a structure with with SUs or SEs of at least 2,500.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Yeah.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And so you're in your Caledonia District that sort of, lightish brown, a little bit wet lighter brown. Is that if that were to be the SU in which you replaced, does that make sense where you are?

[Jason Miller (Board Chair, Caledonia Cooperative School District)]: So I think we're, you know, we're interesting because of we're in the middle of the SDs verse and SUs. Right? Because right now, we're part of the Caledonia SU that's there with Danville Cabot, Peacham, and Danville, but we're also right next to SDs, which is the Saint Johnsbury Academy and Kingdom East as well. So part of that is, you know, we see we're in the middle and what is the what makes the most sense and direction for us as a district to go in.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. All right. So the main thing for you though, and the board said this, is that you maintain your ability for high school choice.

[Jason Miller (Board Chair, Caledonia Cooperative School District)]: Yep, absolutely.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. I think I could tell by body language with an interesting question over

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Yes, sir. So,

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: thanks Jason for for the input. I have a my impression is that school choice is not getting enough airtime in the the house and the senate. So, I'm I'm pleased that you kind of refocus this at least for a few minutes on this and my question is really not to you. No. Yeah. No events intended but to the committee. There was a number bannered about on how many, it's either school districts or towns have choice in in the mix and I'm wondering if somebody can share that. 90. 92 or three towns. Towns. 90. Yeah. Just. Thank you. They don't keep your attention.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So, it's one of those things. So, thank you. You are welcome to listen under. Yep. Okay. You're welcome to stay on and listen or if you have other things to do, that's okay too. So, but thank you for coming in. We may wanna talk to you again while we're

[Jason Miller (Board Chair, Caledonia Cooperative School District)]: Okay. That sounds great. Feel free to reach out. You have my contact information. I'd love to continue the conversation.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Next we have Darnell, Redneck, Mark.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: No. Redneck, Darnell, Mark.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Oh, is it backwards? It's Renell. It says the neck.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Redneck, it's Garnell.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. Come on. Throw your back. Okay. So you saw what we did? Yes.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Doctor. Jianni.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: So I'll introduce myself. I'm Rene Darnell Martin. I'm the school board chair for Sequoia Valley School District in Franklin County. And I just, I did submit a written testimony. I can submit it afterwards if you like.

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: But yeah, I'm just here to advocate for our particular district and some of their needs. It may be a bit of a viewpoint because I saw the updated map and our superintendent had testified last week about that. So I'm just here to reiterate the point that the map stays the same way. Currently, the current map has us in the Curie area and maintaining a district within that. But I just want to kind of hit some of the same points and if you have any questions, it'll be pretty short. So the reason that Stand Alone District for us designation works, so we have a Pruz and Gals for Success since we unified with Act 46 back in 2019. MUSD is operating at cohesive pre K through 12 districts serving about 1,800 students. Population is significant, several districts currently proposed as standalone SDs, Peelier, Addison, Northwestern, Pruski. We have highly efficient, so really the point of that is at scale we've already proven it to be quite successful. Highly efficient operations. We are fiscally already quite responsible as a district. Our bulk truck weighted ADM is $12,173 All right. So that is well below the statewide average. And I think that kind of serves us a lot. We move that money to people, for our student services. Spare educational outcomes. Despite a low spending district, our student outcomes are among the best in the county, consistently outperforming higher spending on the neighbors. We continue to be above the statewide averages. So we can really do a lot with that amount of money. I think that's a good indication as that model that we have works. Operational misalignment, CTE, conflict, the proposed, the previously proposed inclusion in SU11 would decouple MPST from our current tech center, which is the Northwest Career Tech Center. So the way it is now, we are aligned. We actually sent a number of our students already to that tech center. They're already integrated into that system. Maintaining as part of that is quite important to us because we're putting a lot of emphasis on tech and the trades.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Are you fully operating? Are you fully operating district? Yes. Yeah. Yeah,

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: we have, so we have three elementary schools, so Franklin Swanson, Highgate, and then we have one school which is So, it'd be Is

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: the CTE inside your current district?

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: No, so we send most of our, not all of our SAT students to the Northwest Tech Center, which is part of Maple Run. That's in the sound.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Is that how far?

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: So that is the one that Yeah.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So we're one right below.

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: Okay. That's, that's maybe Okay. So that's for us, that's about fifteen, twenty minutes. Yeah, so students, we actually bus the students to the tech center and that's where they've got half day open, depending on the student and their classes, sometimes half day, sometimes full day. We also have a pretty robust Ag program at our school. So that's something that we're both quite proud of what we're doing out there. We're really big on pushing into the trades. So that's why the previous map that had us part of the SCU coupled that, so that would be an issue. Just the structural compatibility with Franklin Rutland District Grant Isle. Again, we don't have currently. And then clear local mandate, our board recently, the last one in world, we failed to pass resolution for being part of an SU. So majority was for being part of a district in

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: that book. What was just kind of get a sense, the SU that was being considered that got rejected, what kind of geographic? Well, thought that we had was with that general model work, it wasn't anything imposed. It wasn't like specific boundaries. No, it

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: was just with that general model you're working at. As a district, we just had quite a bit of success walking with them. Again, we're able to allocate resources, teachers where they need to go. And again, for the cost of what we're spending, it's been successful. And our initiative, our focus, our statewide average has gone. Again, for what we spend, it's quite high. Yeah, I think there was a, one of the avenues, think we were about thirteenth in the state for our high school insurance company. And then just protecting progress. So, you know, staying unified, high performing district versus going back to this, you would have been aggressive stress that threatened operational effectiveness and government stability. So we just advocate for remaining the same and within this particular balance, considering that we could. So if there's any questions, again You

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: will allow them to drive through, right?

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: Yeah, it depends. It's okay. Yeah, so no, the current map as it is, this was the one we used.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yes. So, three elementary schools, one high school. Okay. Any of those four schools able kind of kind of out of the periphery as far as like low population, you know, really marginal facilities, any of those kinds of challenges in your districts? No, our small school, Franklin, it meets all the benchmarks for

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: teacher student ratios. It has actually been named one of the best elementary schools in the state previous years. We're very proud of that school. So that is, I think, a great school, so it doesn't grab any risk there.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: It changes the dynamics when you're in an area, whether it's a district or an SU, that has those kinds of challenges, that's why I asked the same.

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: Yeah, no, we have a really good interoperability between the three schools. Again, they all funnel to the same high school by transportation to all of them. So it's been quite effective. So your high school, your high school population? Don't know often. Just roughly. 200?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: They were okay. I

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: think it's eight, nine hundred. Okay. Yeah.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: They play against Maddie, so it's

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: gonna be about the same. Okay.

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: I think it was. We're also the softball champions statewide, so no.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Middle high school, the others.

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: Middle and high school. Middle and high school. And we have a tax center for our MS school. The biggest thing is just what we've been able to do with our per pupil spending, right? So we are considered being lower, but we have effective cost savings in there. Unfortunately, if they pass the budget, so we're actually out for a v vote, our intent to hear concerns about property taxes and all that, so we understand that issue quite well. So, but again, you know, we're affected by the statewide issues.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So if they're affiliated with a CTE, one of the models they consider for over a year now is CTE centric SCUs, SCUs. I'm wondering, in your conversations with your board members and your parents and administrators and what have you, if you, had talked about the CTE centered model and if you did, why it's not of more interest as opposed to such a maintaining status quo?

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: Well I think for us as we already are doing that through our work through it's like our best time to present to me, right? We're already aligned with that. That's where our kids are going. And so for us, the current model is already integrated together. So it's making sure that we continue to do that.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I'm just like searching for nuggets of information which you may not have. Yeah, it's a

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: great tax center. If anything, it would just be able to grow that capacity so we have more students go.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So that actually triggers the, nowadays kind of, this isn't as much about, it was the same thing you're doing, lots of information. Do you have kids, are you able to expose your seventh and eighth winners to CPE?

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: Yes.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Do you go to So

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: a lot of that goes through our Accidental, right? Again, have Cannex Welding that's done through our like MFA program and, you know, we're exposing them to them. We also host the accounting wide, basically like career development fairs where we have different employers come in, work based learning programs and stuff. So, we're very minded on giving different opportunities to the students the best, especially around work based learning programs, trades, stuff like that. Mean, you know, up there in Franklin County, a bunch of our long students are interested in. So we try one of those. But you, what percentage is your teachers pay, or salary expense, should say? I feel like I should have my finance director.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I have

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: to move to that. Are you talking about what percentage of salary benefits of our overall budget? Yes. Probably like 80. Well, it's small, but it's around. Because I've talked to some other superintendents. It's about 80% cost and so And, yes. And how are your facilities? Our facilities are, I mean, we've put, so for instance, one of the things that we did with the answer funds is we did the majority of it into facilities, right? Because we understood, again, it was one time money. So, we have, our facilities committee does

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: a lot of work to improve

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: the grounds. Everything, we have a group approach, a project that we've been in multiple phases of working on to improve facilities. We added an additional classwork and stuff to Franklin, so we used ESSER funds for that just because of all the requirements. Paycheck problems, we have a lot, so we put a lot into the facilities. So we are quite proud of that network because we understand over time, you have to have. So, but yeah, in terms of payment, it's the same thing. I'm sure you've heard it before, how we're bringing stuff for things we don't control. That's really hurting us. Losing teachers and staff to higher paying districts. That was my next question, is how was your pay scale? Is it average, low, obviously it's not high because you just said you're losing some. I mean, I think, again, like I think our district's done a really good job of also the other incentives to be there and be a part of it. So we have a pretty good retention rate. We're comparable, I guess that's the best way to say. We're comparable with our neighbors. Probably more of a disconnect with some of the southern districts, especially my shift.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So let's do the question. Yes, absolutely. Did you guys pass to complete your PCB testing? You're on the roster.

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: I would have to go back and shoot it.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Oh, you live in Almirallah too. She'll be around the world. So Yeah. I I would have to go back and Okay. Sooner weeks. Okay. I understand that your your cost per student right now is roughly it's below the state average, but you're but budget was rejected. Can you share with us why your voters rejected your budget? I'll caveat this, it's just my opinion, I'm

[Rene Darnell Martin (Board Chair, Missisquoi Valley School District)]: not representing more in my opinion. I believe that local, a lot of people view those town meeting votes as their voice to express discontent. And with overall property taxes, I really think that that was some of the sentiment. When messaging comes out that, hey, property taxes are too high, we should change the system. Lot of voters feel that they can't support it, even though it doesn't necessarily correlate to what's in our budget. And then, despite a lot of efforts on our part to communicate to the community that, you know, our local share of the budget is actually decreasing. So our current proposed budget actually lowers our tax rate just slightly. And that's with adding in the CLA and all that stuff. So it's one of those things where there's just, you know, people are struggling and they don't want to see any increases. And so, you know, I think that kind of was part of the issue. I do believe this current luncheon should hopefully pass. We are lowering it just slightly. But yeah, people are just frustrated. Yeah, yeah. So do you believe the foundation formula will make your job easier? I need to double some details. Right. Because in theory, would be good. It's just how are all the other funds allocated? Again, like there's potential, in certain cases, maybe it rises because of what's allocated at a minimum because we're already below. I recognize there is something that has to be done. It's just how is it distributed? How does that actually work? How would you like to question that? I would defer to a business artist and be like, Hey, how is that actually going to be distributed? Funds rolled out? I mean, big questions that we have are like, We're able to put a lot of work and money into facilities, through our budget, will funds be available for that? So yeah, those are things that I'd have to be in the spot on for to know how. Ideally you won't have a budget to ask again. I mean, Exactly, but I think the question isn't, and this is where I know it's push pull, right? We have representatives from other parties in the state who are gonna talk about, you know, we wanna be part of this, we wanna be part of that, how to make everybody happy. Locally, for us, in our district, we've been able to do things we want and prioritize the right things. Again, facilities, quality staff, I mean, we don't have much of what we don't need. So I think if everyone could replicate like that, that would be great, but who wants to? So that will be kind of a detailed look. Thank you. Yeah, I know. I appreciate the time.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you, Mike. You're welcome to stick around. So, Terry and Seth, we apologize for the delay, but we were on the floor for a lot longer than we thought we were gonna be, so we're a little, we're trying go behind, so sorry to screw up your day. But, yeah, thank you for coming in. Good sense. Kerry, you're up next.

[Terry Bristowe (Board Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: Thank you. Yes, good afternoon and thank you Senator Bongartz and senators for inviting me to speak today about the current Senate map and its implications for Vermont schools. I'd also like to say that I took the opportunity, Senator Bongartz, because you told me in a conversation we had that anytime I had the chance to speak up, I should. So that's why I offered to speak today for one reason. I'd also like to thank you as the Senate Education Committee for coming to visit our school this past fall and for your conversations with students, teachers, administrators, board members, and community members. I'm a retired educator with forty four years of teaching French and Spanish in Vermont, grades pre K to 12, and I am currently the board chair for Mountain View's Supervisory District. Throughout my career in Vermont education, I have seen education regularly reinvent itself with new initiatives, consolidations through various acts, and now Act 73, which has thrown the state into upheaval, confusion, distrust and fear, especially fear. Fear of losing our communities, our local schools, which are regarded as centers of the community, and in many towns there are generational traditions. Distrust that consolidation will bring the financial promises of savings, which have yet to be modeled in any of the maps. Confusion over loss of identities when schools close without any evidence that it will improve education. An upheaval after many of our communities spent years trying to hammer out articles of agreement to consolidate under Act 46, which has shown little financial gains despite the promises. All this is to say that I understand and agree with these serious concerns, having lived through it mainly as an educator. In looking at the Senate map, I'm glad to see that the current school districts and supervisory unions will largely stay intact instead of what some maps have shown ripping towns apart and putting them into new districts they have never been part of. In order to be proactive, We have in Mountain Views reached out to two other districts geographically and educationally aligned with us and with whom we all share a CTC. We had a board meeting of the chairs in Mountain Views, between Mountain Views Windsor Southeast and the Hartford School District and agreed that we had much in common. And if we were told we had to consolidate, we are logical partners. We sent a letter to the redistricting task force and spoke about it at a meeting, and they thanked us for our forward thinking. We know that other districts have similar burgeoning partnerships and voluntary collaborations that should be encouraged and supported. Enacting CESAs, otherwise known as BOCES, as our region has done, is a proven way of forging relationships that are mutually beneficial in terms of operational and technical resource sharing that supports greater access to educational opportunities for all students while actually reducing operating costs. ESAs also support district to district relationships that could be foundational for voluntary mergers. As you no doubt know, our seven communities approved two small bonds for necessary repair work in order to keep the high school middle school open and we passed a major bond with high margins to build a new school before the current building becomes uninhabitable. We have an approved preliminary plan and a bond now and we are looking to our next steps in securing state construction aid. The data shows our middle and high school schools are providing high quality educational opportunities in our region and strong support for the new school bond even in this difficult economic environment.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: You're frozen.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Carrie, you're frozen. Can you hear us?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Oh, you're back. Now you're moving again.

[Terry Bristowe (Board Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: Okay, great. Great, sorry. I don't know what you heard last.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: The word difficult environment, I think. Even in this difficult environment.

[Terry Bristowe (Board Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: Okay, all right, let me go back to that.

[Seth Webb (Rebuild Committee Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: You are a good listener, Senator Bongartz. Okay,

[Terry Bristowe (Board Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: so I'll just pick it up where I think I should be. We have an approved preliminary plan and a bond and we are looking to next steps in securing state construction. The data shows our middle and high schools and are providing high quality educational opportunities in our region and strong support for the new school board even in this difficult economic environment shows how important it is for our regional towns we must not lose it. Currently, there are three high schools in our CTC region. If our high school failed and can't be rebuilt, our district geography would be too far for students to be bused from the western side of our towns in our district such as Pittsfield, Killington and Plymouth. Through Act 46, these communities all chose to stay in our district and are fully integrated educationally and operationally and it would be harmful to split those families off. We have heard that more students are needed if we want to build a new high school. We say bring them in. However, most schools are locked into districts or supervisory unions through articles of agreement that are difficult to break. We have been in contact with neighboring towns who are interested in joining our district, yet they have no immediate mechanism to move into a different district. We ask that the legislature and the AOE envision transitional period that facilitates those voluntary shifts. With the three supervisory units that have agreed to consider being partners, we could look at our schools over time and consider ways of offering students the option to attend one of the three schools not restrained by where they live. We could begin to diversify curricula and create educational pathways that meet the needs of all students. These are conversations that can be challenging, and they require trust, flexibility, and time. We welcome assistance from the agency of education as we build a school that is in line with their vision. In Mountain View Supervisory District, after consolidation with Act 46, we had many such conversations while creating a common curriculum, a common CBA, and many other aspects of what it means to consolidate and unify. Bigger supervisory units will need time, patience, and perseverance to make progress towards a cohesive educational outcome for all students. This is best done among willing partners coming together voluntarily with the shared purpose of providing the best for our students, families and communities while leveraging such collaborations to drive down operating costs. Thank you for your work, your good intentions and willingness to hear from the educational community. Sincerely, Terry Bristowe.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. Just to make sure that the district, I mean, the SU that we have you placed in on the map, is your testimony that that works?

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Yes.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay. And I remember the testimony from your area, the visit and then the testimony about Archie worked in Act 46 to bring things together and get to a common goal.

[Terry Bristowe (Board Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: Yes, was challenging and it happened over time, but it did happen and we are seeing the outcomes educationally and financially.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Any questions? Okay.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. Okay. And welcome to stay on and listen to Saturday.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Thank you.

[Seth Webb (Rebuild Committee Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: Seth, you're on. Great. Hey, senators, thank you so much for having us here today. I just want to compliment you. You guys walk the walk. I have seen you take testimony, come to schools. You're really doing great service by being out there and we definitely take notice. So thank you. My background, I'm also on the same school board, the Mountain View Supervisory Union, and I'm the chair of the Rebuild Committee. So I'm going to speak from a little bit different lens to complement the message that Carrie gave you and try not to be repetitive. My background is I've spent thirty years in state and local government, either working directly in leadership roles or advising companies to work with state governments around the country. Most recently in government, I served as town manager of of Killington for six years and special assistant to the governor of Illinois for five years. Thank you. I just wanna say, look, I think there's an important reality that you are addressing. There's been declining enrollment in an aging population, which is necessitating some type of change. You know, losing more than 20% of our K through 12 student population, it's really put a burden on the system and it's reasonable for the legislature to explore consolidation and new governance structures. We really appreciate the work that's gone into these maps. And we really share your goal of trying to build a more sustainable, equitable and efficient education system. And we actually believe that we're well positioned to help you accomplish the goals you've set out. At the same time, we really urge the committee to focus on what the evidence demonstrates will produce meaningful cost savings and build strong regional schools, which are really the backbone of consolidation. So what are the details? First, I think the task force that you appointed really made a critical finding that large scale consolidation on its own has not been shown to lower cost, improve outcomes or increase equity. You know, but they did identify a promising path, is regional collaboration and shared service models, like the one that we've created. We created the first BOCE model called Vermont Learning Collaborative, which allows our district and neighboring districts to share cost, high cost services like special ed, transportation, staffing, achieving economies of scale with actually without full consolidation. So I think that there's also some cost savings that can be derived through the staffing that you guys are rightly clued in on. And so I really think emphasising in your final maps the benefit of these BOCES is smart.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: I

[Seth Webb (Rebuild Committee Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: think the approach has to more directly address some of the major cost drivers in our education system, you know, healthcare, special education, facilities, and transportation. BOCES help do that, but you know, we just went through a budget cycle, and our budget actually provides a helpful illustration. Despite facing significant increases in things like health insurance, labor, supplies and more, we were able to hold our increase to 1,700,000 over last year, which is about a 5% increase. And and the the equalized tax rate was around 3% increase. But due to the variables outside of the school's control, that translated to a three to 17% tax increase in our seven towns. Right? So we're keeping the with anything that we can control, we're keeping costs down. But then there's a bunch of things that we don't have control of, like wages and benefits, health care. These are these represented about 80% of our budget and health insurance alone was up 7.4%. You know this as well as anybody, but healthcare is really rising much faster than Ed spending. 110% increase from 2018 to 2025 and one hundred and thirty five percent increase from '18 to '26. You know, before 2018, less than 10% of school budgets were focused on healthcare, but now it's 12 to 15% and rising towards 20%. If we don't address that driver in this change in government, it's an action, it's not to deliver the benefits that we all want to see happen to the state. The other thing in our budget supplies and equipment were up about 16% due to tariffs and inflation. And then, you know, around utilities or unforeseen facility repairs, Those things were increasing too, including like Carrie mentioned, our 1958 boiler quit and sewage pipe failed. The other thing that's driving costs right now for schools that nobody's talking about, and I mean, I feel like we are, but it's this penalty on this 2x penalty that's been issued ever since 2024 on capital expenses, on debt. I don't, you know, we're paying a penalty this year just to replace our boiler and fix our sewer pipes and deal with things that will keep our schools safe and operational and hopefully energy efficient. You know, I think that's been a challenge. So I really think the point here is there's some major cost drivers that aren't being talked about as much, and these maps are a good start, and I know it enables the foundation formula. But I think those have to be more of a focus. How can we be a partner? We really think that that the maps should support strong, you know, can support an educational forum, which supports the regional hub. We're ready to be a partner in regional solutions. In addition to forming that first regional education cooperative, we've demonstrated our commitment to being a regional hub. Carrie mentioned some of the outreach to neighboring schools and how we can collaborate, but then on March 3, our district voters from seven towns approved an approximately $112,000,000 bond to rebuild our middle and high school. They authorized about 75% through the bond vote, and then we've raised another 5,000,000 already locally. So we have 89,000,000 on the table to build a regional hub. We need to raise the rest of that money, that 20%. We're hoping that the school construction will help, will come through, and we need that penalty to go away on capital debt, so it makes this thing possible. But, you know, essentially, that financial commitment plus our history serving 28 communities in total, we have seven towns and we've had up to 21 sending communities through school choice. You know, our ability to maintain strong academic outcomes, offer diverse programming, being a leader in innovation, you know, coupled with our state approved rebuild plan, which is designed by the way, we designed this thing to accommodate thinking about what you're doing. We designed the plan thinking about what you're doing. We can accommodate our current population plus have room for growth with what's authorized, the current plan. But within the permit, we can easily expand from 600 students to seven fifty or 1,000 if you want us to build and be a larger regional hub. That is a change that could be upgraded, that could be managed, that's contemplated in the design. We have the ability to grow and to accept more students if that's something you would like us to do. But to move forward, have to, you know, we're hopeful that the legislature will uphold its commitment it made through Act 73 to fund the school construction plan and take action to remove the capital debt penalty, which was snuck into the 2024 yield bill at the last minute. These actions are not just for our district, but for every district across the state. They will help ensure that school districts can be safe and energy efficient. I don't think, as you know, the state stopped funding state construction in 2027. Vermont has accumulated more than 6,000,000,000 in unmet school construction needs. As a result, many of our facilities are the oldest and least adequate in our country. Ours is currently ranked the worst according to the state. You know, this is a statewide issue that affects safety, educational quality and long term costs, and has to, you know, and I think we're ahead of the game. There hasn't been, there's not like a facilities plan to go along with these maps, but we're stepping up and saying, hey, here's a facilities plan that could support consolidation in larger districts that we have already funded 80% of. I understand that the Governor and the legislature have identified potential funding sources, like adjustments to second homeowner taxation, an estate tax, or even a targeted wealth tax, and we urge you to act on those. We think that, you know, from our experience, delaying any investment is only going to increase costs over time, and I know that education reform is being driven primarily by, in many parts, by cost, you know, cost reduction. Equally important is eliminating that debt penalty. Right now, as it stands, since the state does not fund school construction and it penalizes communities that step up to fund capital debt to ensure their facility is safe and energy efficient, that's essentially making taking care of your schools an untenable option. It's holding communities somewhat hostage in terms of holding the facilities they have. You know, just to wrap up, I thank you again for having me here today for considering this point of view. We support your efforts. The MAP, as Carrie said, we will work with and we want to be your partner. And we encourage you to keep focusing on the things that are driving costs for Vermonters. Thank you for your time and for your service.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. Questions? Just so you know, I think there's a lot of sympathy around the notion of exempting bondage indebtedness from excess spending threshold. So I think there's people understand that issue. I'm not sure where it's going. We're not on the money committees, but I think that issue has gained some attention. The other one is that there is a bill in the house that would deal at least in part with the healthcare costs. I'm not sure where that's going either. That's the one that would sort of change the way that the bargaining works at the time. So I'm not sure where that is. I will also say that the legislature and administration together between the care board and the legislature has taken a significant amount of cost out of the hospital system in Vermont the last couple of years. Not enough to probably make a palpable difference for the issues you're raising, but to have, but there is work going on. So but your points are all well taken we understand them and have internalized them. So thank you both for coming. We remember our visit very well and enjoyed it. So thanks.

[Seth Webb (Rebuild Committee Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: One of my favorite parts, Senator, was one of you was asking, where are you from to a student? And she said, Rutland. And one of your colleagues said, you came from my district over the past? That's amazing. And she was like, well, yeah, it's a great school. Anyway.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Says a lot for school choice.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yes. Very good. And I remember one

[Seth Webb (Rebuild Committee Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: guy ability our ability to be your partner is a regional hub.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: You're one of the only schools I've ever heard say that act 46 actually helped you. I heard a lot of negative on act 46, but

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Took a lot of work. Know. I've also heard that. Right. So but but you're but yes. In the end because the the testimony was that in the end, it was worth the work because it came together. So thank you for that. So, all right, well thank you very much.

[Seth Webb (Rebuild Committee Chair, Mountain Views Supervisory District)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Both of you, thanks. Okay. We're that's it for today. And just to give people a preview, I think we're probably likely not to be involved by that. Which is why I get to the.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: D. Just because of the. The floor?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: It's part of the floor and I actually have to be on something and and and then we rock it out much time anyway and people didn't want to be out here. So I figured rather than be reporting by that's what something is.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yes, certainly. Just curious if if you have developed a strategy towards this conversation of two zero six picking off the floor.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Our two bill. Oh yes. We're yeah we're still live but I guess it's legitimate for us be talking about I have an amendment. That I basically want to tweak a little bit I don't want to take to a committee tomorrow that allows somebody to open a home center with just the level one certification and then with some number of years, yet to be fully determined, but some number of years to get to a level two, but a a long ramp up. So that rather than have to have everything before you can open one would invite you with maybe not going to happen. Make it easy to get started and then give time and then that's obvious. So,

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: yeah. I just sent you an email with the data that was powerful. Okay. And, you know, we're, I've had a lot of home daycare centers that closed. At one of them it was a master's degree in early childhood education that said if I go from a home to a center which is what she was gonna have to do she got married Yeah. So I'm gonna have to, I can only pick up two of her children but I gotta go through all the expense of putting in a sprinkler system and she said I'm gonna probably close if anybody works at school. So yeah, I mean, that's that's what I was talking about. That's

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: that's the appearance. We've lost a lot

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: of home data because it increased the requirements.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Well, fire safety is always. Oh, yeah. But We know, like, There's we always think

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: fire was all from the whole center when she was living there. She had eaten.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Right. But you I mean, we just we have tried to talk about fire safety in the committees of jurisdiction, and there's really very little we can do to control fire safety matters. Like, I I'm just remaining really sympathetic, but we would be in very big trouble if we lack if we relaxed fire safety regulations on child cares.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: That's a strong issue.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Okay.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yes, I saw a couple of heads. So,

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: related to S two zero six, just curious if I picked up a couple of items, I'm not sure if they're correct or incorrect. Public pre k system is exempt. Did she, did the bills sponsor or report or

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: say that? Do you mean after school?

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: No. I thought that one. No, this is public pre k.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I think she meant that that's under a different system.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, like after school. Public school. But childcare is in, private childcare is part of this I think,

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: I don't, I could

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: look about if the language is public school, it probably says that anyone regulated to per that receives is like the therapeutic schools, anyone that is regulated by the Board of Education probably just doesn't have to fall under this because they do have their own regulations, not just public schools, but anyone who receives public dollars.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Anyone who receives public dollars?

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: I I believe. Yeah. I mean, they receive public dollars for provision of K through 12 education.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Okay. I just wanted to see if I call that right now. Just okay. Thank you. Well, I guess Committee Committee of Jurisdiction. So again, I know several you guys have much more experience in this and I'm not gonna, this is not a hill to die on. I am just curious whether education belongs, childcare education belongs in health and welfare or belongs in education. I just, everything I heard and sitting in health and welfare for two years, we had this conversation. It always ended up that that was the right place, although we were really talking about education. We were talking about education, we were trying to take the perspective of birth to career, that chunk of time. And it was, we could never find like this line where it would should go from one community to the other. And I'm just curious, you know, here we are like right in the middle of this conversation. And just the whole scenario on the floor just kind of like struck me a little hard. It's all about education, but it was in a different community. All the issues came out during that sort of surgery. Yeah. And we could've talked to him for another hour. Okay.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Alright. Sorry. I wish we had, like, a week for a drive for a drive by. Right. Right. But

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: And why did they offer that to you?

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I don't know. I I the terms of words, mean, had a committee terms of words that kind of came out of nowhere for me. But I

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: mean, it also was the committee that received the bill. Government operations does licensure. It does licensure everywhere in the bill. I remember the debates on where to house early childhood education. I felt then we should put it in human services and I think in that is that It's working really well now. Ag bill went from here to ANR because it had a little bit of stuff in it about solar, and they ended up ripping it out. And it's like, well, that bill originated here, and then you affected it. So, and as we saw, some bills went through three different committees that has money in that. It has the word education on it, it should at least get a drive by. And that's courtesy. That's not trying to, you said one chair talks to the other, we're sending it by for a drive by, here's my opinion. If you have an issue with that, let's sit So, down your I can't speak to whether or not the courtesy was extended of a heads up and what happened there. That is different than automatic jurisdictional possession. Don't need it, but it should it had education in it. It's a regular war of its soul. Yeah.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. I didn't I'm not being I mean

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Right.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Sometimes things get hectic and things don't happen.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: It should

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: happen. Yeah. So I don't wanna be critical, but I didn't know what was comfortable.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Right. But it it's like a it's an unspoken courtesy and an unspoken kinda like, if you are a certain chair of a committee and you ask to have possession, then it becomes a conversation with the pro temp and the other powers that be committee on committees.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Of course, they'll be right, they'll have it right across the border because they can eat.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Exactly. So I it's just I know I wouldn't just gonna say there's, like, a rule that was broken. Never

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: man, I think I think I think it's a legitimate discussion, though.

[Daphne (Committee staff/host)]: Yeah. Everything's It's legitimate. Courtesy and respect to me. And

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Member)]: we have had testimony in early childhood education in here. Yeah. I feel well versed in it, and I feel like it's working without coming after AOE.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Well, that's more conversation, isn't it? I mean, that's

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: a conversation that should be Don't be the bad actually, as a conversation.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Not to degree Yeah, or yeah. Yeah. We're neither here nor there. Right.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. I think we can go off Daphne.