Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: We're left.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Alright. This is the Senate Education Committee on March 17. We're continuing our work on the next chapter in Act 73. And today we have with us legislative council Beth St. James. We had a discussion about RAP four. So, four. One. Four. One last Thursday. A handful of changes emerged from that and we're just going go through what is now on slide four. Then we can talk about, there's a couple of changes in the NAS based on the four components right of now, so we'll talk about that afterwards. I So only had one person who a citizen happens to get a room and ask that he can say a few words afterwards and I said, sure. Put him on the agenda. So, we have probably a very, very quick afternoon here, but first let's just go through the changes with our legislative council.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Sure. Beth Bongartz, Office of Legislative Council. So we're going look at draft 5.1 of your governance modernization bill. Do you want me to share my screen?

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: It's posted, right, Captain? Yes. So it's posted now. Don't think you should read out So my

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: the first change I wanna point your attention to is at the very top of every page, but we'll just look at page one, is there's a little key up there for highlighting. So anything highlighted in green are the areas where you have identified supervisory union or supervisory district membership. And my understanding are those are all TBD, so I wanna keep them flagged for you all and for those following along to know that that's still a TBD. And then changes from the last draft will be in it yellow. So you're gonna be a ton of green, but not a lot of yellow. And that's the first substantive change that occurs. Actually, on page 16, On line 20, transition to new supervisor unions, I've just added the fact that there will be a report to the sections editing. And then if you jump to page 18, couple changes here. So just to orient you to where we are in the draft, Section five, which starts on page 16, line 20, is the transition to new supervisory unions. The transition process for the new supervisory unions that you've created prior to section five. What are all of the things they need to do in order to become operational? And then in subsection C on page 18, you asked for a report back. And so the first report back starting on line one, in subsection C, subdivision one on line four, on page 18, is that you're asking for a report back from the state board with recommendations for adjustments to the supervisor union boundaries but basically what amounts to the gray area, and what you see there is, I should have highlighted the big green, but I didn't for no particular reason. Those are all the gray area, supervisory unions and supervisory districts. So you're asking the State Board to tell you what are some recommendations for adopting those supervisory union boundaries. That was all in the last draft. But on line 17 on page 18, previously you asked the State Board and their recommendations for new supervisory and new boundaries within the gray area for ADM, for average daily membership to be not less than 2,752, I think. It was the ADM of the lowest,

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: the aggregate ADM, lowest aggregate ADM of the supervisory unions on Senator Bongartz's map at one point in time.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yep.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And this has just been changed to a flat 2,500. So the recommendations that you all get back from the state board, there's new supervisory unions within the gray area. The member school districts of those supervisory unions should have an aggregate average daily membership of not less than 2,500 students.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And just this is me an obtracting math, but the new map you'll see here actually has those districts in red, if you like, and it's actually to see where they are. The ones that are westbound? Falls right back there? Or Yeah. I hope they See the red. Those are the existing districts. Oh, okay. Existing. Just seeing it out. Let's see. Yeah. If it happens to relate to our best wishes, probably that's why. And

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: the proposal regarding supervisory union adjustments can also include a proposal for a supervisory district if the ABM of that supervisor's district is also not less than 2,500 students. Then the other new piece here that you're asking for a second part of that report back, And that is recommendations for school district mergers within the new supervisory union boundaries. So, what should the new supervisory union boundaries look like? And then within those new boundaries, should there be any school district mergers? Make recommendations to you all about that.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So it's all recommendations for the rent they have to send back to us. Okay. And I forgot when, sorry, but

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: It's not her birth of this year. Okay. Then the next

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Think about that date of birth. It sounds alright.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Okay.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: The next change is on page 23. Section 10. Here we're talking about final three action for mergers of school districts within the non gray area, within the supervisory union. So, first step is the Secretary of Education makes a recommendation to the state board, or publishes a plan for mergers, and then the state board would take action, and what we've done here is added starting on page, the first instance is on page 23, line 21, that the agency's recommendations shall only, they should only recommend merging districts with the operating structures, and now we've added and districts within the same supervisory age. And so that's the same for the secretary's plan, and then that language appears again on page 25, lines five and six related to the final order of the state board. Can I ask a question?

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Of course. I

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: was trying to make sure I understand the whole light with light. So with this, is there also any benefit? And does this allow for, like, full choice towns should all be merged too? Like, non operating districts will all be merged?

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: It makes sense for small operating, non operating districts to merge.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: It does. Okay. Well, I know.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Because if they don't do it within the time frame, they don't like things to get merged.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: It makes sense from a financial perspective? Like, Oh, I see. Doesn't It make much

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: it probably simplifies things some Okay.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Change. Less for a business manager to have to negotiate. The next change is on page 29. This is the Exploration and Grandfishing Grants reports and appropriations section, section 12. And all I've done here is this is the requirement that the agency includes recommended appropriation amounts for the different types of transition grants, merger grants in their budget submitted to the governor, and the last draft is left out the Supervisory Union Transition Facilitation Grant, so I've added that in. The only other big change, you'll see the effective dates are highlighted, and that's only because I removed reference to a section, because the biggest substantive change you can't see, and that is that the section, I believe it was previously section 15, which added a high school weight, has been removed.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yep.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And that's it for Jacob's.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: The questions first? If we go on to the math in a minute, then that's simply the language. So that's all I get. Thank you.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: David, Beth is here. May I ask a non related question? Understand that the crossover, they didn't get an extra week. So do they have they sent a product? Is there a product that's on their agenda or view on the floor that's coming to us?

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I can't, I don't know whether it's accurate to say that they didn't get a crossover extension, I don't know.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: I just heard that as

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: There's no bill On the money committee.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: There's no bill ready for the floor related to asset B3 right now.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Just a real quick one. So what did you say the green bars are?

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: The supervisory union and the supervisory district boundaries that you all are creating in statute, in my understanding, are TBD. So rather than have everyone say, Are these permanent? Are these the ones you're going with? We're just gonna keep them in green until you guys are happy.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. Put it another way. Instead of having have to go through this, it's lost a voice every time to make a tiny change. Just recognize it's gonna have to happen at some point. Yeah,

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: yeah. Elegant solution.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Yeah, so same conference date.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Oh, didn't even clock that. I'll stick around and watch this.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Are you gonna stick around? Yep. Just to show you the map, the new map, one thing it does is within the gray area shows the boundaries of the SVs. So there's two substantive changes, just so you know. One is following that testimony on Friday from the Cisco A up here, they said they wanted to remain in SD and be able to hook up with an SD next to them. And I think it made sense, so we're trying that one a lot. Let's make this not indicative of the it matters. By the way, every district here is still about a minimum of 27, every SU, sorry, every SU in this area with a color is at least 2,700. The number 25 is the same. And after hearing from enough people in Bennington County, I've redivided Bennington County basically along the existing line. They're both still 1,700. In fact, one of them is more than 2,700. It just I mean, it's too big. There's too big. So we have a number of people over the week beginning to sign up for school boards to offer testimony. Kind of put this out there as we're finalizing that, want to hear from you. And so we have people signed up to a testimony over the next few days from people across the state about whether they like the boundary, but like the boundary of the office. Is there room to have additional people sign up? Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As long as I'm with the county. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. And then do it through tapping. And then do a trick them again. So

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And I oh, we're all receiving the same emails, I think so.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: All ones is copying me. Well, all

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: the ones Right. I just figured bundling them and maybe they started to even aggregate and say this is a statement from

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: this group or something. So

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And you do typically post those, I think. Right, Samantha?

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: We post them, yeah, and I just, like, if I need to better understand something, hopefully we're hearing from one of those people from those hotspots. Yeah. Unless we've taken care of their patients.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay, so we had, do I, yes. So your GIS

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: support, can they, per your district, can they provide the number of schools, which probably is close equivalent to the number of principals for each of those districts. I know. So that because, again, I'm not an I'm not advocating that we deal so much with the number of students, rather the number of principals that each superintendent would be responsible for. That's a completely different message to the number of students. And I'm wondering if that data point can at

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: least be provided. So what's done got partway there, and we've got a breakdown, and I think we have a breakdown of the districts within HSU so we know how many district boards a superintendent would be dealing with. Doesn't get all the way to what you're talking about, but it's it's the marshal step. The next thing is your point, and I'll see I'll see about that.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: So can I ask another follow-up? Are we working so with each new proposed district, there would be a school deal?

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So she'll remember these are these are supervisory units, not districts. Right.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: So, okay, so we let me rephrase this. Would each of these new SUs have a new school board? They'd have a board, whatever name you wanna call it. Yeah, an SU board. Okay, so why, if the school board is a representation of the SU, why does it matter how many districts the superintendent was dealing with when the superintendent really has one board? His or her board, not all

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: of the districts, the current districts within the. Well remember that the superintendent does deal with the district boards. I know they do now. They go to the, yeah, so they would, they go to those meetings electronically or not, however they do it. And so the superintendent deals with the, with the supervisors, but also deals with the boards within the SU. Good. And we're not trying to change that paradigm? No. That's not what I've been working on this week. Looking North America shrink and the number of districts Southern for instance, the superintendent will have, theoretically half the number of districts to get me. But more school boards? No, fewer. Because if we merge districts, if we're able to go from the 119 district and 60, there's fewer boards. Big, take relevant for example. There'd be one superintendent. There's a number of

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: existing boards right now. Those boards could consolidate, but it would still be one superintendent with a larger geographic footprint, which would be a larger number of existing districts.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Well, would be fewer districts, hopefully, because if there's fear, no, it's not going to play out evenly across the state, but if for the sake of discussion it did play out evenly and there were 10 schools in an SU now and theoretically, in the front of it to half the number, you'd go from 10 districts to five. So the superintendent would have half the board meetings to go to, but the superintendent would go otherwise. Now it's not going play out that way.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: And as Senator Weeks was saying, right now, the superintendent goes to every school board. Should we change to that wording that each one of them is gonna send somebody up into the

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: SU board? That's what they do, if they do

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: that right Then why does the SU superintendent have to go get

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: each? Districts, districts are, so the SU is actually not a governing body. It provides some kind of, provides services. And so each school, depending on how it gets set up, districts, Senate will wrap up to that. But the real work with the superintendent is done at the with the with the individual district once because they run the operations, they do their budgets, they do the budgets. So that's the system we have with SUs and so what we're trying to accomplish here is that fewer SUs and cut the number of districts in half which should it's a step does not purport to solve every issue for its tube.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Okay.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yes, get a step and hopefully a step that Vermonters are ready for, especially if

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: they can happen organically. To streamline, create efficiencies, efficiency Yeah. Should create

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And I think the key to this has been it's a two year sport to happen organically.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Have we sowed what Swan Tapping to

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the point of this? Yeah, there's some language in here. If we get to the point, just, again, I'm making this up, but- Yeah, that's fine. Within these colored areas, I think the number, the magic number is about, would be to get to about 48 within that code number if we went down by half. Say we got to 40, the board had to merge four to get to the 48, I mean, I'm sorry, 16 to get down to 48. There's some criteria here, can take a look at it, about the things the board considers when making a decision about which districts get merged. And basically, it's gonna be to try to merge smaller districts into larger districts. And if we flip that out there for the districts to see, we're hoping organically they do this. We gotta make this decision on our own. Yeah. We want. Yeah. But Yeah. Yep. So, we have, anything else right now? Okay. We have somebody who walked in a room, who's in his house, has to testify. We had time, so the answer is yes. Perfect.

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: It's still okay if I say what I have So to

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: introduce yourself for the record, what town So you're

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: my name is Nathan Pickard, I am from Waterville, Vermont. So I'm excited to be here, thank you. I'm hoping today, so what my purpose is of being here today is to maybe fill in some of the gaps of what I don't think y'all are hearing, right? So really kind of the impacts of things. So I had to type this out because it's some information. So you're going see me reading off script too, well, with this, but I'll also add in as I

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So give us a little background before we start.

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: Yeah, that's gonna share right here, right off the bat. Just to opening statements.

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: Okay.

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: Perfect, that was my seventh grade debates course that I took. All right, so my name is Nathan Pickard. I'm your boots on the ground reporting to you today on the smoking mirrors that are not being shared with legislators. I tell you as a career first responder who has risen to the rank of chief as an emergency management director who recently created Vermont State University's emergency operations Plan, as someone who has directly responded to major incidents, as well as a former ongoing worker with the Department for Children and Families. I have stood in living rooms with families on the edge, in classrooms where kids arrive hungry and overwhelmed, and in command posts where we try to make broken systems talk to each other during a crisis. From that vantage point, I can tell you the way we are restructuring education under Act 73 does not yet match the reality Vermonters are living every day. Right now, we are paying a premium for fragmentation. Every district runs different technology platforms, different data systems, different contracts, and different pathways into Vermont State University, community colleges of Vermont and workforce training. That is not just inefficient. It confuses families and students and waste money we desperately need for direct services. When you hear promises of savings from consolidating districts and eliminating local boards, understand that the real savings in consolidating systems and aligning our pipe, not in hauling out our local schools. On the ground, schools have become food pantries, crisis centers, and mental health triage. Teachers are making sure kids have breakfast, winter clothes, and someone to talk before they can even begin a lesson. Children are carrying the weight of housing instability, addiction in their families, and the financial climate that leaves parents choosing between heat, rent, and food. We talk about test scores and accountability, but we are asking traumatized kids to learn in a constant state of crisis. This is not a failure of our educators. It's a failure of the system we have built around We also need to ask that almost no one is asking out loud. Why are so many of our children on IEDs? And why does that percentage vary so dramatically from one part of the state to another? Education. If disability were the only explanation, the number would not swing so widely by geography. Those differences tell us that trauma, poverty, and inconsistent expectations, and fragmented systems are driving some of these identifications. In some communities, an IEP has become the only way to access support. In others, kids with similar needs are left to struggle without any plan at all. This is not equity that is patriarchy. We have spent years talking about diversity, equity, and inclusion as if a training or a slogan could fix this. What we need now is unity, equity, and inclusion. Unity means aligning our systems from kindergarten through twelfth grade. Through Vermont State University and CCB, and into the workforce and reentry, Equity means sure every child's basic needs, foods, water, safety, and mental health support are met, so they are actually ready to learn. And that support like IEPs are used consistently and fairly across the state. Not as a substitute for a coherent system, inclusion means that Vermonters who have been incarcerated are not written off, but intentionally brought back into our communities and our workforce with real educational pathways. We already have proof that alignment works. Vermont State University has begun to turn the corner by aligning its programs with real workforce needing clarifying pathways from CCV. We see similar promise in corrections, education, and reentry programs that give people a chance to earn credentials and step into work instead of cycling back into the system. But the successes are happening in spite of fragmentation in K-twelve, not because they're statewide design. When I talk about regionalization, I'm not talking about erasing local identity. I am talking about aligning and sharing the work that can be done once, well across a region. We should be regionalized in IT, business offices, transportations, and specialized services while preserving real local voice over school climate, trauma response, and community partnership. In emergency management, including my work creating Vermont State University's emergency operations plan and responding to major incidents, I have seen what happens when systems are aligned and when they are not. When they line up, we can turn a crisis into a turning point. When they don't, families fall through the cracks and the costs, human and financial, are much higher. So my message to you is simple. Do not be distracted by the smoke and mirrors of quick fixes and paper statements. If Act 73 is going to transform education, then use it to regionalize and align our systems from K-twelve through higher education and reentry, while protecting and empowering the local relationships that kids and families rely on. Invest the savings from system consolidation back into basic needs supports and mental health services in schools. Build clear guaranteed pathways in BTSU, CCV, apprenticeships, and reentry programs in every region. And insist on transparent statewide look at why our IEP numbers are so high. Why they vary so much by district and how much we can reduce preventable disability by addressing trauma, poverty, and system failure of strength. Lastly, I have to ask the hard question. Why is our current administration not putting the solutions on the table for you? Why are we not hearing about regionalizing systems, aligning K-twelve with Vermont State University, CCB, and correction educations, confronting the disparities in IEP identification and reinvesting savings in the basic needs supports in schools, instead of just hearing proposals to shut down or hollow out our local schools. Vermonters deserve more than a choice between higher taxes and fewer schools. We deserve a plan that is honest about the problems, specific about the solutions, and serious about unifying our education system from early childhood through reentry. Vermonters are not afraid of change. What we fear is being asked to sacrifice our communities for someone else's spreadsheet. I am asking you, as someone who has spent his career on the front lines, to look past the talking points, see what is really happening in our school and homes, and use this moment to build a unified, equitable, and inclusive system that actually works for the people you serve. So my recommendations as well as that is one of the things that just came out that y'all were looking at is 21% savings, right? If we can just look at kind of consolidating in some of these platforms alone, right? Now, not just with the platforms, right? But if we look at safety, so we put the overall safety. You go to school districts, not a single school district has a matching emergency operations plan. If an incident happens at school, nobody knows what to do. They have emergency action plans, right? So why is Vermont Emergency Management not taking the burden in that cost? You already have people doing the job, right? So there's so much fragmentation and so many silos from at the state, right? So the agency of human services, Vermont Emergency Management could be saving you millions of dollars a year just working to those two agencies to provide certain services, right? So what I do like is the fact that if we can regionalize these schools, and even if some schools are gonna have to go, that's just the way it is. But keep in mind though, too, these kids are getting put on the bus in kindergarten at six a. M. In the morning. Okay, so they're not functioning. These kids are not functioning at all. And then now some of them are gonna have to take bus rides that are an hour long. So you figure a kindergartner is on a bus at 6AM that has to ride in. They're not going too far. So do I think some of the consolidation has to happen? Absolutely. Do I think systemic root policy is the key word that we need to be looking at instead of just policy? Absolutely. But y'all sitting here aren't gonna know that information unless it's proxy, right? So everybody's talking in silence. Everybody's doing their own thing, and it's costing me three times the amount. So I think this proposal, if you looked at the numbers and calculated, would actually save you a total of 40%. So that's my justification for this, right? But it's also keeping a little bit of local control, which keeps

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the voters happy. So let's clearly put a lot of volunteers. So when you say this proposal, do you really mean, you mean having four regents or something like that?

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: So I have presented before some legislative work that I've sent up through, I don't know if y'all have received it, I know I handed it off and stuff to a couple legislators that actually did the legislative work for you and the language as well. It's pretty significant. So I don't know if you have it. If not, I'm more welcome to try to email this legislative stuff though too for, I guess, its wording. But it's just, I'm just trying to do my part and help out, right? Yeah.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, think, I think again, you're really, would it also be fair to say, you're really talking about the same thing that the, at least in part, that the task force talked about of larger regions, regions doing some of the services across a bigger umbrella.

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: Right, so take human resources. How many human resources do you need for a supervisory group? Right? Can you not take that and narrow that down, and have a human resource that runs six of your districts? I mean, the state of Vermont has a human resource that can run the whole state. So I think it's investing in some of the better technology, right? And you're seeing that because it's costing me a million dollars a year on multiple lawsuits against the Department for Children and Families because your systems are outdated, right? I'm a part of that lawsuit that's fixing to come down. I'm out of the state of Vermont for that, Right? Like you retaliate against me. Sorry, So you lost the one that just happened for like the foster families, right? Like they changed the whole foster care, right? Well, I'm the person that Eric or Racky tried to have arrested as a DCF worker because we didn't have placement for kids. So here was the option. Let's get one of our employees arrested so the hospital won't kick a kid out. It was me that fixed that for the state. So the retaliation that's come down, which you have to, too, for your state leaders is tremendous, right? And so that's your budget problems, right? So if you're paying out millions of dollars a year of lawsuits because of bad policy and you haven't updated your systems, you might as well invest, right? But the thing is, though, too, is K-twelve needs to align, right? So we have 1,800 inmates, 80% of them don't even have a high school diploma. So what I like is you have that guy who's trying to give away a college campus right now in Vermont, right? Well, it away. But why are we not aligning K-twelve all the way into secondary education with Department of Corrections? So if I was the state of Vermont, I'd be begging that guy for that campus. I'd be setting that up for prisoner reform and actually educating our prisoners through that system, because you know it's only gonna cost you a million dollars a year for the property, the savings is hundreds of millions of dollars for something that you already have. Significant.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I saw a question here. No, okay. All right, thank you. Thank you. Thank you,

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: you're welcome. Do you now have a

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: email our committee

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: I

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: do, yes. Okay. Okay.

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: Got it, cool. Well, you very much for your time I appreciate it.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thanks for

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: being Thank you.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So just one more minute on this, just for people to make sure we really have in their head, the stuff I'm accomplishing. The code that's used, the idea is within those, that totality, to reduce the number of districts by 50. These are bigger than they are now. And to reduce the number of districts by half. And then here where you can see in the gray area, some of these SDs are actually, now geography doesn't tell the story because some of them are actually having a lot of kids in a very small area. But some of them don't have a lot. So the idea is here, they'll have two years to do their own mergers, or then in the third year the board would do it to get through the path. Here the board will make a recommendation to the legislature about how to get, reduce this number by half as well. So what if, you see they're treated differently because

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Addison Middlebury and for Jan's that they already tried to combine. They did the life working So years they'll be able to do that now if, when we go to townspeople and say, look, you didn't want it years ago, but now it's kind of, we have to, or three years from now it's gonna happen.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, and the other thing is, for what it's worth, just to have the discussion, we're just having a discussion here, but in the past, some of the difficulty in mergers was around the fact that there were rich districts and poor districts. Foundation probably you don't have that anymore. Correct. That changes, makes it, in my mind, more likely that we can more easily get mergers.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: So doing that, what do we, about Stones and the Manchester's of the world that their district decides, hey, because we had that percentage, that the voters say, you know what, we wanna vote on a new gym. Are they still going be able to do that, or are we going to hold them at that? It's like, now you're on the foundation formula. Yeah,

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: so there's parts of this that I'm, like, I'll also say that I'm not trying to solve all the things that

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: you need One at a time.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I'm trying to solve this foundation formula that does what it does the way we passed it last year. But it basically is you get what you get early to. You have And then, you know, we are gonna have to deal with civil construction. That's not an area where, oh, you actually can't go. We didn't know that. Okay. So That gentleman. Are we Yeah.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Come on.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Go on. So That can that'll be a quick adaptation here. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks. Okay. So

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: we're doing that. Everybody,

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I had a request. I had a request from the contractor. Right? No? Building no. Building supply, To come and offer a little testimony, just my background testimony about CTEs. And they weren't sure if they could come it up, but apparently they can. And so if you know, we have the time and if you want to, I think you want to talk about this, what you're doing to help CTE happen. Yes, sir. And we have Jeremy Baker from R and K Miles is here. I can tell you what we've been working on over the last several years. Sure. This is who we are. We're handing out to you. And there's also not Bennington. Oh, I'm gonna do it backwards. Which works with the backwards. I don't want to sell too much of Claudia's thunder over there, but about two twenty five kids statewide from the, construction trades program, CTEs will be in Randolph on April 2. And you're all invited to come down and meet them and see what they're learning and how they can. They'll tell you what they want. You will. That's good problem for us to get out of

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: If I'll we don't ask, you don't come. So we're asking

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: you

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: to do anything. People say not me a lot. It's so it's frustrating for us because there's things all the time we'd love to go to, but it's just, we can't get out of the building.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Oh, only took us four years to get the government Yeah, out of okay. So you're telling me there's a chance.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: So

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: how much time? Right now? Yeah, about fifteen. Fifteen minutes, okay. So how do you wanna do this? Who's gonna, Jeremy?

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: I think I'll start off.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Have a seat. Sorry. Vague, Nader, Roscoe, Sure.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Yeah, Jeremy Baker, lifelong Vermonter. I currently work for Archimiles. I'm the ex officio of the VR LDA. I'm the chairman of our legislative committee. I'm also on the executive committee for the NRLA, president of the LBMDA, all these acronyms, other things as well. Ultimately, what we are asking for is a clear path and opportunity for every student that has an interest in learning in the building trades or CTE world. Give give them that avenue and and make sure that we aren't leaving some behind, however that means. We have seen some examples where some students were not given an opportunity because of too many kids attending one CTE program, and another had room. It was a Middlebury Rutland thing, I'm sure you've all heard about it. I understand that there was a way around that, but the kids and the parents really didn't know who to go to to advocate for them. So it's almost like a leave no student behind type of thing, especially if you have a kid that is actually interested in learning, and then developing a trade while they're learning. I'm smiling only because we passed today, first reading, our second reading on

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the floor, passed out S-three 13.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Yes, thank you.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Which is a bill that does what you know, sets up at

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: least an intent Right. With intent. We understand

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the intent. Wind up with what Yes. Yeah. But now you have

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: to go from intent to action. Yep. Yep. And I I don't mean that in any disrespectful manner, but that's where we have to go. Turns out you're right. The longer we wait, longer we wait, I don't want to say the bigger the problem gets, but there's potential for it to get bigger. We're all familiar with how many students there are in this state, not many. There's 17%, I think, of our population that is 17. We're an aging society. Property taxes, we keep going to that well. I don't think that's the way to go. I think it's a short term fix to a long term problem. I'm trying to talk as fast as I can because we only have fifty minutes, but I'd rather listen to Claudia. I okay, yep. It's frustrating to know that there have been kids interested that have not had the opportunity. As we move forward as a state, redistrictization, all of those challenges that you're facing with the educational system, I wanna make sure that there's always a thought about where the CTE program and the kids that are gonna, that want to attend them, they don't get left out. When I grew up, sadly, that was the, we don't know what to do with those kids. I'm 54, so that'll give you some context. What do we do with these kids? They don't fit in, they don't wanna learn. So you put them in automotive tech or whatever the program is, and they were kind of looked at as second class citizens, to be perfectly honest with you, and now we have kids that are actually interested in it. And I'm sure all of you are homeowners here in the state. Have any of you hired an electrician, a plumber, or heating and ventilating? How much are they charging?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Too much. No, they're not.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: They're charging what they're worth. Yeah.

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: Fine.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Because at the end of the cul de sac, they can now afford one of those homes.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: My answer might have been, I care less about what a faucet is that I can get one. Exactly, exactly.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Where's Bill? Bill had the same sentiment earlier. He said, he knows builders, and the only favor that they can give him is, I might be able to fit you into my schedule. And we have a shortage. We have a shortage of houses. We've identified that. We have a problem with the workforce development. We've identified that. And this addresses more than one issue. So we wanna educate our kids here, and we don't wanna export them to another state, and that's what's been happening forever. Everybody talks about maple syrup being one of our biggest exports. Our kids are our biggest exports, whether we

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: want them then or not. Cincinnati's.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Both of my kids are, and if I had it all to do over again, I probably would've encouraged them to find a different route rather than to be saddled with two hundred to three hundred thousand dollars of debt and then graduate, and trying to find a job for $50,000 a year, it's gonna take them forever to pay off the debt. So that's all I have, unless you have questions.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: No, I'll say there was a question here, but Senator Ram Hinsdale has been, this committee is on the other page, think it's fair to say about the whole committee, and I think we really all, all want in the CTE and the need to make sure that it's available for every kid. And your point about the fact that CTE now is very different than what it was fifteen years ago, remember the whole concept in which kids are involved in the whole, it's very, so it's actually really exciting. It is. And so we appreciate it sharing that.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: And we wanna be here if if there's anything that we as an organization can do to help not just the people in this room, but the people in the building, the people in the state, we wanna be there. We wanna be a conduit to success. Yep. Everybody in this room is a competitor, direct competitors with each other. There's only a certain amount of customers that we have access to in the state. So we put aside all those differences because we believe in the kids. That's what we've focused on over the past five to six years. A lot of these kids are not going to show up at our business to work for us, but they're going to work in the trades so that they can be customers of ours, and they can can help help the state get to a point where it's not just a book but don't touch state, not built just on tourism.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. Do have a question?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Actually, comment,

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: if I can. Yeah. Yeah.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: So there's no side of the coin that, you know, talking about kids that, you know, what do we do with them? I was I was a college bound student. So I wanna go to college. You know, I couldn't get my guidance counselor to let me get out of it, to go to the trade school. Sure. That I had and walked. So I went through, you know, struggled through the last two years of my high school. I ended up going to a New Hampshire technical college when I wanted technology, which is what I wanted to

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: do. Yeah.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: So, you know, we gotta look at not just CTE centers. We need to look at maybe higher education for the trades.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Absolutely. I don't think that we're, I don't think any of us are saying, just get them through CTE and put them in the workforce. If they want to continue their education, I want to be a part of that as well.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: But we need to teach more than just the hands on, the welding, twisting the branch. Gotta understand the, you know, we gotta train future leaders in CTE.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Yes, couldn't agree more.

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: Next. Do you mind? No. Just

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: You have to come up and introduce your Oh, do.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I was

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: feeling pretty good

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: about that.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: A year from

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: Middlebury, I acquired GoodRoll Lumber July 24 with my business partner, James. We were looking for a business in the state to run something that was hands on, tangible in the community. I think one of the things I want to emphasize is not just CTE because we need tradespeople, and that's a lucrative opportunity. It's a pathway to entrepreneurship. You know, so, like, for the, there's this old language in the MBA sphere that I've come out of that's search funds, right? You look for these businesses that have either succession planning issues, or no one to pass it down to. They're Good Row was third generation, they didn't have kids to pass it along to. You're about to face this, I believe it's like the biggest transfer of wealth between generations in the next twenty to thirty years, we see big movers at their, next generations to come. And so, it's CTE or trades as a pathway to becoming an entrepreneur in your community, right? How many people have we seen, you even in Middlebury, in the short time I've been there, Taylor Rentals goes away, or the local fuel company got acquired by someone in New York, and what have you, and it's like, the way we keep those things local is by teaching people not just the skills, but also the soft skills to say, hey, you don't have to go to Silicon Valley, New York. We're happy to be an entrepreneur. You can be an entrepreneur right here. There are people that are trying to sell their business every day in the bond. I think that's a really big miracle. Ruth? Is this the hazing?

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: One

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: question before I go. Yes. Where do you originate from? So you bought GoodRose. I remember seeing the transition. Used to buy a few GoodRose, and Oh, yeah. Thank you. When you and your partner came and bought in, I read the story, but I forget it now. Could you

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: So tell us a little James and I, we met at this school, MIT originally. We both dropped out after a year, and we started two companies after that. They were both in biotech. They were both startup capital type. Well, one was a nonprofit doing fecal transplants. We couldn't talk about that another day. And then the other was a biotech that we took public trying to create therapies for C. Diff infection and IVC for patients. So it was incredibly rewarding, but on the flip side, you're basically chasing capital constantly to try to hit the next milestone, promising 10 more milestones ahead while we're trying to still hit that first one. And then clinical trials R and D, that's really, really difficult. You're seven to ten years multi million dollars just to see positive or negative result, and we really wanted we in both companies, the first we grew to eighty, ninety people, the second we grew to about 200 people, and we really loved it when the business was 15 to 35 people. If get you everyone in a room like this, I was just having this conversation with a few others here, and so when we came and we're looking for a business in Vermont, didn't care about the industry. Had to be in Vermont, and then it had to have a stable cash flow and something that could plug into the community, and that's really why I'm here. Yes. Another question.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Why I'm I'm curious. Why did it have to be in Vermont? What makes you pick specifically Vermont and nowhere else?

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: It's a pretty awesome state. Realistically, like, James had moved up here during the pandemic as part of that kind of influx of people, and he stepped around and we were living in Cambridge as we were thinking about having a family. We have two kids now. I was like, okay, it's either gonna be moving down to Brookline or we'd love to find the path to Vermont. So we said, let's set a timetable, look for business in Vermont. If we find one, then we'll make the move. If not, we won't. We probably diligence a dozen companies over a year, including Good Road.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: I heard the same story about Cummings Electric and some Harvard Business School students, so I'm gonna have dinner with the new owner of Cummings Electric who's a young Harvard Business grad, so I'm so interested in this phenomena. We are a great state. We are,

[Nathan Pickard (Waterville, VT)]: and it's an awesome state. Awesome.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: We are an awesome It's incredible, yeah.

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: And we wanted that small town kind of community feel, really someone who were, you know, knowing our customers, being able to contribute. We didn't want to be the latest millennials to come up here and work remote jobs, so. We're glad you're here. Thank you, I'm glad to be here. This is like the commercial.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Yes.

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: Well, and it's just this thing about, like, private equity is making huge plays, right? I don't know if you hear the headlines, say what you will about private equity, but, you know, they're not just rolling up homes, but they're rolling up plumbing businesses, they're rolling up HVAC businesses, they're rolling up all these trades businesses, but why? Why leave it to Wall Street? We have this opportunity to train people here to take over businesses right here in this state, and it'd be a shame, I think, to see too much of, I don't want to make this an insider or outsider, but when you have the opportunity and the interest of students here, I would love for them to have the first crack at me. I think this is a really big pathway. I just did that in one of my businesses, sold

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: that to one of my employees. Yeah, yeah,

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: there he goes, exactly. The time is ready to be done. Yeah, and that's big ethos. We've heard a lot of, some of the companies we diligence, we just missed it, they said, oh, we just switched to ESOP, and that's great. That I think is part of the ethos with Business Owners. Thank you. Anyway, thank you. Thank you.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Bonnie, more

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: to come. Do we have time, Jeff?

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. Can't get someone else to. Thank you.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: He's mute. I know it's the former owner. Claudia Holman. I am employed by Bethel Mills. We are the oldest continuously running lumberyard in the country. We've been in business for over two forty years, established in 1781. I am also the president of the Vermont Regional Association. More importantly, I am the head of the going education and workforce development. I would like to speak a minute to what Andrew has just said. He is new to our organization, Tim Holmes, before him, who I'm sure many of you know is a proponent and a graduate of the trade schools. The opportunity that these people are bringing to us here in Vermont is gonna change the landscape, right? And so, we need, for me personally, and for the board, to reach kids where they are at as early an age as possible, to allow them the opportunity to explore what's out there for them. And that actually is what Bright Futures is about. Now, Futures is geared, it's a program we bring about 200, two twenty five children from across the state to the Randolph Campus of Vermont State College System. And what we do is we have some of the biggest companies, building manufacturers, automotive, you know, we bring our trucks, we bring our CAD designers, and we have the Department of Labor comms, school is there, so to your point, we have different venues. This year we've teamed up now with Vermont Construction Academy. They offer apprenticeships, so right out of high school you can go for an apprenticeship, so we have a presentation on that. We send the kids out in small groups, about 15, and we pair them with mentors. And the mentors are there because they want to reach these kids, they want to talk to these kids, they want to let them know that we're there for them. We're not just there in the sense of being there for the day, we're there if you have a question later on. So, we send them through these different presentations, they're about twenty five minutes a piece. We show them all of the opportunities within this field. Last year, the governor came. He told us he would be there for about five to ten minutes, and he stayed for an hour and handed out the shining star award to the fully loaded tool belt that's received by one student in Beatty Field. And I love Bright Futures. It's been a great endeavor. This year now we're going to start another program and it's towards the middle schools. We have teamed up with UCA and we will be doing on May 6 a different program because the younger kids need more intimacy, they don't need to be of running around. We're going to start them off with building science. We're going to talk about an orbed piece of lumber and how you can't get a screw in it, and then we're going to show them Advantech, and then we're gonna show them zip. We're gonna teach them plumbing. We're gonna have them use a square to show the different things that are available to them. I didn't bring it with me, but at the end, we're going to build a small trinket box with them, hands on, that they can keep. And from that last piece, we're gonna take that trinket box, and one of our designers, our kitchen and bath designers, is gonna come and gonna show our technology. Because people don't know what we have in a laundry yard. We have dynamic technology. And so the premise will be, when I was in seventh grade, I made this box and I love it. I love it. It was the first thing I ever made. And I want to design my kitchen around it. We're gonna have the kids actually work on designing the kitchen. So, we'll have the cabinetry, we'll have granite countertops, we'll have the knobs, and we're gonna then put that up onto the screen. So, the new programs allow you to actually make three-dimensional models, and if you decide that you have a yellow countertop, do you want to change it to green, you can do it right there. We're going to let them touch that as well. We're working with the middle schools in Bethel and Randolph that have pathways, career pathway classes, and this will be our pilot, so you're also welcome in May 6 to come to that. Really, as an organization, do believe this is a great state to work in. We have young people coming in who agree with that, and we aren't here to ask. We are here to walk beside you and to say, We believe in CTP. How can we help? If that means sending us to our towns when these proposals come out, talking to the teachers to get support for some of these proposals, then we are, as a board, willing to do that, and willing to send the other members of our companies to support it or want needs that we need at a younger age. And I agree with you completely. The more you can know, and the more you can be excited, the better off you are to make a decision, and to meet people like the ones that we have in this room who are from all over.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: And it'll never take a week. And I can still fix my new car. Exactly. Even though I have technology since I can't.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: I was actually speaking with someone in the commerce committee, and she's an artist. And she said that she learned hands on, and she can make things herself. And these are very valuable skills for us to have. The other side of it is, and I say this all the time, the kids that we see today, when we asked them last year in Bright Futures, if you would have liked to get into a program like this earlier. Almost 90% of them raised their hands. But so many of them are walking around, capped down and the heads at par. Because nobody reaches across the table and said, let me tell you about some opportunities that you let me show you something. Let me teach you. And that's what we're here to do and to help you as well. So we do welcome you to come to Bright Futures, even if you came for a little bit. You start early. You can be a mentor. I will say that students' response to the governor being there, and commissioner Harrington came every single year, and others have come as well. I cannot tell you how much they appreciate having people from the ledge come because they it means they matter, you know, they're, they're, they matter. And we are in a state where we're small enough that, that they know you, some of them know you. Oh, fine. Okay. I don't hurt. So, if you can make it, we would appreciate Anything else I can answer for you about the programs? We'd be happy to. Or any suggestions? We got some suggestions downstairs for the kids who, I guess I can call them, somehow got lost, and they were of young adults, maybe dropped out, maybe went down the wrong path, and we're gonna be reaching out to a couple of them. Luke from Curtis Lumber, who Flanagan is the manager of Curtis Lumber, is gonna bring them as well, or try to bring some of them to bright futures. So happy for recommendations.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Do any of you offer workshare for the high schools? Beth does, believe. I

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: think we all do, actually.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: And do you see rewards from that that after they get done school, they may come see you for an actual job or that they usually venture off?

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: They venture

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: off, from our perspective, in our experience.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: I saw it, I guess.

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: I've gotten one in the eight years we've been doing it. And are they doing it? I he's currently an entry level forklift guy who graduated high school this past spring. So or last year, so he's not even a year under his belt with us. We have several 600. Yeah.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: We we have several. We also have several that are coming out of what was VTC and the architectural design program coming in as well. So for us as an organization, when you come, if you were to come to Bright Futures, you would not see us wearing our Bethel Mills shirt or our chemo. We we wear a shirt that says Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association. Right now, there is an urgency,

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: and it's not about us. It's about the state, and it's about the kids. Employment employment again. That's right. Exactly.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: And so that's what our goal is, is to get them somewhere. So they come to me because they're local and then go down I'll give Jeremy's number and say, you know, head down to the mansion.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: As a matter of fact, I

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: have my daughter on her down there. So, Doron and stuff like that.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Can you just distill for us what the greatest threat is to Bethel Mills to the longest operating lumberyard in the country?

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: So, we are seeing right now is we do not see young people coming in to speak to the entrepreneurship, into contracting, as we did in the past, to the quality. They don't understand the vanity of carpentry or of lumber. It has not been shown to them as art. Actually, one of the people that is coming, a governor recommended, his name is Scott Raum, he's from Cantercock, and he went to a trade school, and he now makes six figure cars out of Milton. They're artistry. Have you seen his stuff? Now he's gonna come. He's not a contractor. But to the point, for whatever reason, we have not provided the dialogue that says, this is a wonderful, respectable business where you can are you a doodle there? You know what you could do with that? You can create with that. You can make something that lasts forever with that. You can give someone a home, which is everybody's dream. So, our greatest threat is finding people that really love that industry because they haven't been exposed to it. They've been exposed a heck

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: of a lot on this phone, but it is a carpenter. I'd love to connect my friend who is the in house cabinet maker for beta. Mhmm. You know, he went from being a carpenter to just making cabinets full time to one of our largest employers.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Love to have him come and be a mentor or even a presenter.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Yeah, absolutely. So much value in that and then coming on and hoping that you created something. Yeah, and that a multibillion dollar company is, you know, using local wood and local carpentry skills in this state of the art facility.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: And that's what we wanna see. And, actually, the majority of people that are coming are contractors. One of my contractors who's So I'm 68 because I was probably 65, and he's now made all of these boxes. They are in it. They wanna show these kids what what this is about because they've had really great careers, and they've learned how to how to be managers. They've learned accounting. They've learned so many things from this particular path. So, yeah, employees that are excited and passionate. Don't you want that for everybody that you come to work with? You could see I have a lot of passion.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Andrew, was your folks, were they entrepreneurs, or were they My dad was a CPA,

[Andrew (Co-owner, Goodro Lumber, Middlebury)]: and he started his own firm, but I never saw it as entrepreneurship, but yeah, it certainly was a form of it, yeah.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Does it have a lot to do with how you're raised? Because every dairy farmers and almost every single one of our entrepreneurs. Yeah. Yes?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: There's a prevalent attitude out there, think, that, you know, I learned what I wanted to do at age 16 because I worked. My father bought me a lawnmower, five gallons of gas, and a quarter of oil, and he put me to work mowing lawns. Right? I knew I didn't wanna do that. It was a lot of work. Mhmm. But I I tried different things. And we gotta encourage our youth. But, you know, my own kids who are still here in Vermont were definitely Vermonters. And they said, like, my my oldest turned 16 got his driver's license. Said, what are you gonna do this summer? I mean, well, you got a driver's license. Why don't you go find a job? His mother said, oh, no. My kids aren't gonna be like you. They work three jobs. They're gonna go to college, get an education, and I don't have to work. And I said

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Oh, boy.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Last time I had all three of them together, I said, how's that work for you? And then Okay. So I think by, you know, encouraging young kids

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Teenagers to get out and try different things

[Jeremy Baker (R.K. Miles; Legislative Chair, VRLDA)]: Yes.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: So they understand what they wanna do and what they don't wanna do, that will help them set and then show them maybe a mentorship program or show them, you know, what futures what they can do with their efforts. That's what we gotta do. We gotta we gotta encourage and not discriminate. Yeah.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: But to your point, the mentors who come so a lot of the children to your point about family, do not have someone to say what you just said to And again, can make them sick, but I say this all the time. At 20 years old, I would not walk into a public building by myself. No. I had a mentor. I just lost him. But for forty years, had someone who saw something in me and and lived And that's really one of the most important pieces of this is is to say, you can do this. Let's look and see what might strike your interest. And to teach them about hard work or get out of the fall, someone in the eye when you speak to them, you say that very gently, very kindly, and you can give them that lift because they want, they see you, you're successful. They wanna be successful too.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thanks. Thank you. Yeah. Very good. Thank you all very much.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: Yeah. Thanks. Thank you, Try

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: to be there on the second.

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: We would love to have you. If you want us to walk with one of the classes, anywhere between nine and 09:30 is a great time. You can certainly come and not join with the group, just walk through the presentations. There are a couple of them that are off the charts. We really would be impressed with him, I I believe. If you'd like to come for the award ceremony, when the kids are all excited, that starts around 11:30.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So, by the way, thank you for what you're doing.

[Beth St. James, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Yeah. You for what you're luncheon that day, but if there are other opportunities to come when when like, just in case you can't make it. But I'm amongst I will I

[Claudia Holman (Bethel Mills; President, Vermont Retail Lumber Dealers Association)]: can show them they We're we're not sure. Send me

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: a Yeah. So you're all information. I'll get Yeah.