Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: We're live.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Senator Feds, Senate Education Committee on the February 4. We're back after a short break. Today is, I guess, kind of like NEA Day in the state house, right? And so as we do with other police agents who has requested to come in and talk to us, we'll do that with them at the end today. So, we don't all know each other. So, we'll go around the room and we'll introduce ourselves. Hi, Nader Hashim from Windham County.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Good afternoon, Dave Weeks serving Rutland County.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Seth Bongartz from the Bennington Center District.

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Terry Williams representing Rutland District. And Steven Heffernan, Addison County District.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So first, we apologize for being behind schedule, We had great testimonies, so it was just a good one. But we're happy to have you here. We're looking forward to your testimony. And we're starting so when you come up, your term comes up, identify yourself for the record, what school you're with. So we'll start with you.

[Amika (Central Vermont Career Center)]: Thanks, I'm Chittenden. Work at Bunch of Vermont Career Center in Barrie. I've been here for five years and I've been in healthcare workforce development for fifteen years.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And

[Amika (Central Vermont Career Center)]: the CTE centers are not the vocational schools of the past. Today, CTE is rigorous, credential rich, college connected, and rooted in belonging and purpose. Our students earn industry recognized credentials, they gain transcript and college credit, and they work in real partnership with employers and community organizations. And they're highly engaged because they feel clean, capable, and valued. And our demand reflects that. This year alone, we turned away more than a 100 qualified applicants. The students were ready, they were qualified, and their sugars do not have space for them. It's a construction funding and capacity issue that is limiting opportunity for both students and Vermont employers. We also faced a serious recruitment and retention issue for our staff. Across the state, CTE instructor pay is not competitive with industry wages, so it makes it extremely difficult for us to recruit and retain highly qualified professionals, especially in healthcare and trades. We are asking our industry experts to take significant pay cuts to teach, and if we want strong workforce programs, we have to make these positions financially sustainable. So, I'm gonna share two short stories. I had a special educator come in and put a folder down on my desk and say, This student will never stick speed in your program. I teach the medical professions program. That student went on to pass her national certified clinical medical assisting licensing test, and she earned six college credits, and she's now working as an RN. And then, I recently visited another graduate up at CDMC, a 2022 graduate, and she was in tears because she could not get her 20 birthday off due to staffing shortages at the hospital. So at 21 years old, she was already essential to her workplace. She was employed, and she was part of the pipeline, and part of our healthcare staffing crisis. So CTE prepares students to step directly into entry level positions, and to succeed in competitive college programs. CTE is not a barrier to college, or an alternative to college. It's often the reason students persist, because they have direction, experience, and confidence. So we have the students, we have strong industry partners, we have workforce pipelines that need us, but we don't have physical capacity, and we don't have competitive compensation structure. So I'm asking you to consider funding and revenue streams. So those two things. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thanks, Amica. We are reiterating what we have heard, but thank you for doing that. Very relevant. Yeah, We have to become very much aware of the challenges of CTEs. Thank you. And also, not to, I shouldn't say, the opportunity. Both sides. You.

[Amika (Central Vermont Career Center)]: A good rest.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay, thank you. So now we'll go back to the top of the list with Helen Sullivan.

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: Thank you for your time this afternoon. My name is Helen Sullivan. I teach social studies at Montpelier High School. This is my eighteenth year of teaching. I usually teach more ninth graders than anything else and they are really fun, but the highlight of my year every year is my junior and senior elective class on current events. It's called Media Studies and Contemporary Issues. I think every teacher loves electives. There often are passion projects and the students who enroll in them share those interests. For me, that means a group of students who care deeply about what's happening in the world around them and who show up ready to talk and just as importantly, to listen. This past fall that meant conversations about vaccine recommendations and civil war in Sudan, about the shootings of Charlie Kirk and Renee Nicole Goode, and even about education reform in Vermont, and One A Conversation About Baby Black Rhinos and Conservation in Kenya. That's just the first fifteen to twenty minutes of class every day. The rest of our time is structured around in-depth projects focused on the skills of research, collaboration, and effective communication. This fall, students presented on the news media in China, the history of Fox News and photojournalism in Palestine. They wrote policy papers on gun control. We debated whether artificial intelligence is a threat to humanity and then invited our district's curriculum director to join us for a conversation about AI in education. We examined US Venezuela relations through a model United Nations conference and ended the semester with final projects ranging from adult illiteracy, to modern day slavery to Slovakian politics. It was such a good semester and even when the news was terrible, which it often was, I looked forward to discussing it with my amazing students, all seven of them. Now Montpelier High School isn't big, but it's also not tiny and I know that there are a lot of great offerings competing for the attention of my wonderful students. Other electives, AP classes, community based learning, personalized learning, a job, just a little extra free time. But this year 16 of our seniors are attending early college and I worry about what happens to these students and the schools they leave behind when they decide to skip senior year. So I'm asking you to repeal or at least make a plan to seriously reevaluate the early college program. There is enough pressure on kids to grow up fast already. They miss out on their senior year of high school and the school community misses their leadership. We miss them in our advisories, in our clubs, our fall harvest celebration talent show, and of course in our classes. There are students who choose early college because they feel like there's not a lot left that they still want to do in high school and this can easily become a vicious cycle. As enrollment shrinks in AP classes or upper level electives, they can become less attractive to other students or even get canceled, and so more students consider early college because there isn't as much happening in high school. Some students choose early college as a financial decision, and on an individual basis, that's hard to argue with, but students who take this path sometimes still need to pay things like activities fees and they must provide their own reliable transportation. The students benefiting financially from this program are often not those who need that benefit the most. Two years ago, twelve point five percent were early college students at MA Class qualified for free or reduced life. There were 31.8% of the student body as a whole. The year before that, it was year round. By all means, let's work on making college more affordable, but let's make it more affordable for our college students. I'd like you to take a look at who Early College is serving and how it serves them. At a time when we're concerned with declining enrollment, let's keep kids in school. In a time of difficult financial decisions, let's keep the money for Pre K to 12 education in our Pre K to 12 schools. And as we contemplate statewide graduation requirements, let's say you're not done with high school until you're done with high school. So if it makes it over to the Senate, I would urge you to support H-seven 79 sponsored by my rep for me, Spontillier Middlesex, Ella Chapin, that would repeal early college, expand dual enrollment, and create a study group to look at college level offerings for high school students. Thank you for your time.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yes, if I can ask you a Early college, is it by definition full time or can it be half day? And is the other program dual enrollment, is that a mixture?

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: Yeah, so students who attend early college are technically unenrolled from high school. They go to college full time, carry a pretty normal freshman college course load, and then those credits count towards whatever they still need for high school graduation requirements, and they end that year graduating from high school even though they hadn't been in high school that year. Students that do dual enrollment courses, they can take those. Right now, the flexible pathways make students eligible to do dual enrollment courses. Ellisville would expand that to four. They can have a mix of they go take a dual enrollment course in the morning or online and they're at high school for other classes and other activities and being at high school for the rest of the time. Okay, that's all. Thank you. So

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: I hear what you're saying, but I have, if the student decides that's what's best for them, why would you discourage them from saying, well, I don't want you taking college courses. I want you staying in school at high school because one, we've had young students in here going, I'm not challenged enough at my high school. I need to get these college courses to be more challenged. So I understand what you're saying, but isn't it more important what the student wants?

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: Yeah, and I think on an individual level, it's hard to say no to that kid. I have a student in my TA who's a sophomore right now who is dead set. Her plan for senior year is to do early college and she's looking at totally overloading her class as a junior next year, she could make that possible. I'm talking about more of a systems decision. We can make high school full and rich and challenging if we have all of the resources focused on high school being what it is and college being what it is. Perfect.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So again, just another nuance, because in my day we didn't have AP classes, just wasn't a thing yet. Do you get college credit for AP?

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: That depends a great deal on what college you then attend. It's their decision. What to offer credit for and kind of with what score on the exam.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Got it. Thanks.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Very interesting, that's why this committee is so interesting, because you had, like Senator Heffernan mentioned, students in here kind of saying something very different, why it was good for them, but your perspective is a nice cat about, so it's good to have an interesting guest. So thank you. Thank you. Christie Park.

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: Had a printed version of it and I had the wrong version, so there you have. Afternoon. My name is Chrissy Park, and I teach fourth grade at Brooktown School, which is up in the Northeast GINA. And it's my tenth year in education, I feel crazy for saying During that time, I've taught grade second through sixth grade, and recently, the last couple years, I stepped out of the classroom in a support role teaching students for social emotional learning needs, which is a very hot button topic being talked about in lots of different areas. In that role, I provided social groups for students, I created behavior plans that was more about including children in the classroom and what those supports they needed were. And I also worked with coaching classroom teachers on creating environments for students that were supportive to students with sensory and behavioral needs, specifically on creating like positive behavior reward systems that really influence the child's behavior in a positive way. Last year, I was asked to return to the classroom to support a third grade cohort who is struggling significantly with behavior. Last year, that class had over two eighty behavior referrals. This year, as fourth graders, they have a little over 50. I wish I could say that I implemented a groundbreaking strategy or that my years of experience turned things around for these kiddos, but I can't. What changed that classroom from chaos to high quality learning was passion. Passion from me because I was back in the classroom doing what I love, teaching curriculum, watching light bulb moments, and seeing students grow. And most importantly, passion from the students. They began to see themselves as learners. They started to understand that reading and writing and problem solving opened doors for them. When children feel and when students feel capable and valued, their behavior changes. Engagement in their education changes and the outcomes change. We talk a lot about teacher burnout. You hear a lot about saying teacher burnout, and it's real. Burnout is real for educators. But I'd like to talk about teacher passion. Teaching children is both a science and an art. It requires understanding of how the brain develops and learns. It's a science of how our brain works, and it requires applying that science through the careful art of instruction and in relationships and responsiveness. It requires teachers to believe deeply that the work we do every single day matters. I get to work alongside passionate educators every day. My colleagues show up for students in ways that go far beyond their job description. The learning gains we see reflects that commitment. Too often, the narrative around education focuses on teacher burnout, declining test scores, and behavioral challenges in the classrooms. What if we were able to flip that narrative? What if we focused on the passion and the growth and teaching students how to solve real problems that they're going to face in this world that is changing every single day. Many of you have stepped into schools, hopefully, in the last few years, and have seen the passion firsthand. If you haven't, I personally invite you to my classroom anytime to visit. When you see it, I believe the conversations that happen behind these closed doors will shift. They will center on how to support teachers, not diminish them based on salary rhetoric. They will center on what's best for students when discussing consolidation and district maps, especially for children who may lose connection to their hometown schools. We do have real challenges in how we fund education in Vermont, and we need real solutions. But as you consider the future of Vermont education, I ask that you remember this. The rhetoric we put into this world matters. It can either fuel our passion or it can extinguish it. I encourage you to lean on the recommendations of the redistricting task force, where the educators and community members who I personally know have invested time and research and care into what will best serve students and teachers, Forcing children who are already in buildings that are falling apart into another building that's also falling apart is not what's best for our students. Having class sizes that are way over what a classroom can hold and what a teacher can teach is not what is best for our students. It is not what will provide the success and the passion that I was able to see within 19 students in the fourth grade cohort that I got to teach this year. Please protect the passion that's alive in our schools. Thank you.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yes. You're really lucky that today we didn't enforce our no cell phone rule. I have a question for you though. So, Bert, you mentioned social emotional intervention as being a large part of your efforts. Just let's give you the opportunity to tell us why you think this why this has changed over the past decade, two decades? Something Like

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: the need for more social motion, is that what you're saying? Yes. I think, COVID definitely provided kids being at home in very traumatic environments for a period of time, and then we saw a huge mental health crisis coming out

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: of that

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: piece. I think that teacher recruitment and retention decreased, meaning you have teachers in our schools who are not necessarily certified yet, and haven't gone through teacher prep programs. So if you don't understand the science behind children's brains and how they work and how behavior, like how behavioral interventions work, which is what you would learn in teacher prep programs, stepping into a classroom of 20 kids is overwhelming, and there's not a lot of supports in those schools to support teachers who've never taught before. Right? So I think that you're, it's kind of a joint thing. You're seeing a lot more mental health needs and a lot less mental health support in communities, and we're seeing a lot of people and teachers who are in the workforce who aren't necessarily ready to be in a classroom full of kiddos, and then the chaos kind of spirals. I think what I learned in my SEL role the last two years was that pulling students out of the classroom actually decreased their ability to regulate in the classroom, and it required more of me to go in with them to help them learn how to regulate versus teaching the teachers how to help that student in the classroom and how to keep them in actually made more of a bigger effort and actually created better outcomes for the students in the long run. So going back in the classroom, I kind of applied I did a program at Endicott through social emotional learning, and I applied all of that to the classroom I currently teach, and it was just a really full embedded model of like what it could look like when kids' needs are being met and high quality teaching is happening. But again, I went through a very fantastic teacher prep program at Champlain College that prepared me to step into a classroom full of kids. I was just talking to our superintendent the other day about how many teachers in our school who are on their second or third year of their provisional license, and it's about like ten to fifteen percent of our staff that doesn't have a teacher license. Right? So you're asking people to go in a classroom and teach students who don't understand the science of teaching and that's really difficult.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Okay, I get it, thank you. We're now five, six years beyond COVID. I'm wondering if you're seeing that the, in this case, educator preparation is on the right trajectory. Are teachers now increasingly better prepared, even though there are provisional, a certain percentage of provisional licenses and such?

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: We're still not seeing people applying to the workforce who have teaching degrees. Seeing people who are coming who don't have a teaching degree, and who are walking in saying have a bachelor's degree, and then being put in a foster home. And that's in the Northeast Kingdom, and I don't know the rest of the state, because the Northeast Kingdom is a very hard spot to get teachers to move to because it's rural and there's not housing. So the lack of housing and affordable housing in that area is very challenging, and so people don't move up there to teach because where are you gonna live? Like, there's St. Jay's the only place that really has apartments, right? Linden has a very few, but that's about it. So, that's a very small scope, but that's something that the rural schools are struggling in right now, is with getting teachers or college. So

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: on that not being trained, do you have training a trainer? Like, you're skilled in that. Do does the school say, hey, Chrissy, we want to take three hours and start spinning these people up to get them more prepared for the classroom? Does that happen, or does the school system just say, you're on failure?

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: So we have a mentor program that every teacher is required to do two years of mentorship. I think the problem is, is you're trying to water down a four year teacher prep program in a two week period, and it just this there is science. It would be like asking a doctor to go into the Operating Room after two weeks of getting training by another doctor without knowing any of the science behind how the human body works. Right? Like you're talking the science of how your brain works, like that is a huge ask for somebody to understand how kids' brains work and how their behavior works because that's all the science. The art of teaching, sure, that can be taught a little bit easier, like how to deliver a lesson. But if you don't understand the science of what's happening in kiddos' brains, that's a lot harder to teach in like a mentorship kind of way. Like we work on the art of teaching, sure, but the science of it, that's a lot harder to do in a two week crash course. So

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: being that we are all lacking in having enough qualified individuals, do you have a what would be Chrissy's best fix for this this problem?

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: Chrissy's best fix. You're funny. I would say, well, we need more I mean, the first thing is gonna be housing. Right? Because we can ask people to come to Vermont to teach, but if we don't have the housing for them to stay, then they're not gonna come. I think there's many qualified teachers out there in other states that are looking for schools like Spur, right, or like the rural Northeast Kingdom that has, you know, we have skiing and we have outdoor time, and it's amazing. Like, the opportunities that kids have in the Northeast Kingdom are fantastic. I think that you we need to look at the teacher prep programs. Linden State just decreased their teacher prep program. That hurt us a lot, having that get transferred to Johnson and then get downsized. So we're seeing less student teachers coming out of those programs. So I think one of the things is trying to invest in those programs because as the college still decreases in Vermont, we see less student teachers coming out. I'm actually going next week, I talk every year to alumni at Champlain College about teaching and about coming to Northeast Kingdom. And every year I get some people who are like, oh, that sounds awesome. But then again, like they don't end up coming up. So I think you'd find our Chittenden County Schools are again getting teachers coming out of UVM and Champlain student teaching in schools and getting jobs in those schools. But if you look at our rural parts of the state who don't have colleges in those areas, that's the problem. So really it's about offering more student teachers to the rural parts of the state. And then, I mean, looking into, again, bringing back Lynn and State's teaching program, that really did bring in a lot of teachers and student teachers to our schools.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. So, thank you. Good. Rock Brown.

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: Doctor. B's. I have notes on here as well. No cell phones. Thankfully, I'm sitting in way the walls are going for next year, but thank you for taking time to listen to me. My name is Mark Brown. I'm a resident of East Callis, and I teach English and journalism at U32, where I support students as they find their voice through everything from research papers to poetry chat books to the political science to whatever else we come up with in a given year. In addition to my teaching load, I advise MOHS Club, it's a young men's club on campus where we talk about healthy masculinity, kind of the messages we get around masculinity in society. This club recently joined with two other student groups, Feminism Club on Campus, another club that talks about violence and relationships, to do a Title IX presentation for the entire campus, both about what the law entails and then how to get support when you run into problems on campus. Pain journalism, they, of course, cover all kinds of issues, silly, serious, everything in between. Recently, they published an article on the needs of special educators and the students they support. A version of that article appeared in the Times Argus. We do a regular rotation of Times Argus authors called In Schools, and so my students both write articles, revise articles for shorter format, do the entire layout, and then send PDF to Times Argus that gets published so they get the writing, the formatting, everything. So we have these programs that I get to have the luck to advise, but also to make our budget work and to avoid the excess spending threshold penalty. Our district is cutting funding for the stipends that pay teachers for advising these kinds of groups. I think we'll keep doing this work without this pay, but I don't know if that's sustainable, and I worry about how hard budget caps would only intensify these kind of dilemmas, and would ask that you would oppose Senate two twenty to bring those kind of budget caps in. Outside my work with students, I serve as co president of our local association. Beyond the regulatory work on behalf of colleagues and students this role requires, we've begun organizing in response to concerns about ICE and Customs Border Patrol actions, like we've seen in other states. In collaboration with our board and central office, we're beginning to make district wide plans, not just for if they come to our building, but also if they target students during athletic events and field trips, which again, we've seen happening in other states. From what I've heard, student groups are also organizing and advocating around these issues, and we could use your support in managing this at the statewide level. In our district, music education is beloved, engaging 100% of elementary students, including my two sons. However, music is facing cuts at all levels. We're left deciding as a district whether we offer general music in elementary school, or things like chorus and band. We can't afford both. Similar cuts in recent years have caused our district to remove Spanish from the one elementary school that still offered it. Again, hard budget caps would only intensify these types of cuts, so it leaves a vote, Senate, you're playing. I do wonder if switching from property taxes to income taxes to fund public education could move some of the burden from working in middle class or modernists to those mostly able to pay, so I'd encourage you to support Senate 104 in relation to that. Finally, requiring those who receive the same dollars to follow the same rules to keep our education dollars where they're most efficiently used in our public schools. In our schools, we are doing really good work in really hard times, and we need your help. Thank you for your time.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Well, do you have a sense of why your budget is under such pressure? Is it size of school for students in the classroom, or what is it?

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: Good question. So I hear that we are a high expense district. I wonder if some one of the things we have is we have a staff in our district wide, which is kind of a weird function of hiring time, where a lot of our teachers are experienced. I've been in the profession for twenty three years. We have a lot of teachers in their 40s and 50s, so we've got a lot of experience, which works for our students, but also makes us expensive. On in addition to that, we have a lot of social emotional needs like you heard earlier. So at at U32, we have what we call a RISE coordinator who works getting students in the classroom when they've been skipping class, or involved in kicked out of class. We have a SHINE coordinator who works with students who are having substance abuse problems, and we have a dean of students who's literally roaming the hallway, so when I have a student who I know regularly says class, I emailed him, he keeps it on his phone, he chases the kid out, brings him into the room, and I've seen a big major difference. I had this student who kind of stashed, he's allowed for vanity in class, so they were having a lot of issues that had nothing to do with the classroom, but it comes in the classroom with everything else, And so they marked they went to the bathroom, and fifteen minutes later, still weren't back. I reached out to the student. He found the student, brought them in to meet with a counselor that had a long conversation. And then the kid came back in my room, and this is someone I talked for two years in a row who had a close relationship, who made a lot of progress. I taught her in academic support classes, and then for about two weeks, she'd just been completely off base, couldn't focus in class, was pushing back about everything, having all these problems she hadn't had the full time I'd worked with her because of whatever's going on outside in her family. But she had this conversation that the dean of students was able to get because he was able to find her, sit down with these other people, and the student that I had known all of last year, and the first half of this year, was back. She was asking, like, she just needed that one on one conversation, and I can look at our staff and be like, Why do we have three people to catch students who aren't in class? You can say, well, that's an administrative cut we should make. On the other hand, for those students, that made a really big difference. For that one particular student that day, over and over again, see that. So I think that's part of it. We're a rural district officially, right, where all the towns accept Montpelier, around Montpelier, like Callis, Worcester, Middlesex, Berlin, East Montpelier. So I would think that gives us some costs. There's been a big debate about whether we close our two small schools, Callis and Worcester, and the towns voted not to close those. I guess all of those contribute.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yes. So, Mark, you seem pretty well informed about some of the legislation that's moving around the state house.

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: A little bit.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Are you aware of S-two 27? Because you made a comment about school sanctuary. You know, this is like a, you know, the kind of counter ICE legislation, but

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: it's I know something about it, but I don't, didn't have to

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I do recommend 2.7, 2.7.

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: Yeah, and I think it's at the making schools, like, kind of protected, protected zones. That's two zero nine, two twenty seven creates guidelines for what schools would do, and it also prohibits information sharing. I would really support that. Yeah, I mean, have colleagues and students who are very conservative, and it kind of overlapped with my journalists in class because when we had a meeting with editors and they were reading an article from an independent journalist in Minnesota who just won all these Emmys, had eyes knock on her door and arrested her, and then stayed and harass her husband and children afterwards. And, you know, I told that for years and years so I've talked for twenty three years. I'm five journalism classes for probably 21 of those twenty three years. But if you go into journalism and you go into international reporting, or you go into crime reporting, there's same issues you have to concern, but if you're gonna be a local journalist covering local issues, that's not a concern you have here, but that's changed, so anything you can do, kind of protect them. I mean, asked them, reading this, knowing that this would have changed around the anxiety profession, a couple of them said yes, that they considered journalism, but seeing what's going on right now, because they're worried about their safety, never building a family.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Well, the reverse side is it may motivate them.

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: I had most, and that's what, you know, there were six students, and I made sure to tell them when I asked that question that like, I'm not asking you to be heroic and sacrifice something. There's no shame in saying, No, I'm not gonna follow this profession because of what it might cost or raise my family. And so if a number of students said, No, no, would, Seth, but one student, who I was really proud of her, for saying, This does make me a second guess, because it feels more heroic to say, I'm gonna extra commit, and plenty of people will, but also, we can't ask people to risk back in the future.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you. Thank you, Thanks, Bill.

[Amika (Central Vermont Career Center)]: Yes. Good afternoon. I'm old schooled. I'm Ponta Cook, and I'm a native Vermonter, raised in Vermont Schools. I've been teaching for twenty eight years, nineteen years in Vermont Schools.

[Ponta Cook (Mill River Union HS/MS, French and Russian)]: I currently teach French and Russian at Mill River Union High School and Middle School, and am co president of the Mill River Education Association. Thank you for allowing me to speak about the special relationship between our schools and our communities. Make the journey south on Route 100 from Montpelier. Get off at Route 4, head south on 7, and you'll come up to a series of small towns, some in the hills and some in the valley. Head up the roads into the hills of Shrewsbury, and you'll find a school that is the center of this community. Going to the school, you may find older students helping younger students practice their reading skills as book buddies, an initiative that's getting results. Or you might find multi age tables in the lunchrooms, as students from different grades converse during lunch, or perhaps you'll find students helping members of the community organization called Sage create the compost that nourishes the school garden and orchard. Now head down the hill, across the valley, and up the big hill on the other side of Route 7 to Tinmet, another school at the center of its community. Here you may find elementary students learning Spanish, or lessons integrating math and language in their outdoor classrooms. Once a month, a class is joined by their parents for lunch. In this school, outdoor education is a priority. Beginning first thing in the morning, all grade levels play together outside, even before the school day starts. At Back To Room 7, visit Wallingford Elementary School. Here you will find an active learning community by Liptae, and a growing elementary sports program in the afternoon and evenings. It's a school community center that has community members joining in with the students to do things like Green Up Day and recognizing veterans on special occasions at ceremonies that are organized by the school and the community. On the way to Clarendon Elementary, you'll pass a dairy farm whose children attend our schools. And at Clarendon Elementary School, you can stretch your legs on a community walking path constructed by the school and community volunteers. Clarendon is also the home of our district's alternative education program for the elementary students who need extra support. From there, head down to the road to Mill River Union High School and Middle School, where you will find arts, academics, and athletics that we value reflected in the image of the three cornered hat of our Minutemen mascot. As you walk through the halls of Mill River, you will see the student artwork on display on nearly every wall of the school, whether it's senior murals or art from the current art classes on display. In the halls of the middle school, you will see topics from the science classes also on display, as well as messages from student advisories encouraging kindness. You might also find students building robots, athletes in the gyms, or instrumental and vocal musicians rehearsing before or after school. If you enter classrooms, you will see and hear a wide variety of board classes, math, science, history, and English, as well as electives from woodworking and cooking, to culture courses and book clubs. If you come on a weekend, you might watch a movie sponsored by the Tri M Club, or enjoy a community breakfast organized by the senior class, or see the state wrestling or cheerleading competitions. Students also have opportunities for AP courses, or intervention, or flexible pathways according to their needs. Mill River is a school that truly offers something to everyone, and tries to give each child what he or she or they need. Behind the incredible work and opportunities of our schools, are highly qualified, dedicated faculty, staff, and administrators who help our students grow their minds and skills every day, beginning in preschool. We have four preschool programs. And behind the people working in the schools are the people in the communities who support our schools by working and playing alongside of us. Won't you help us keep doing the good work we're doing in our schools and communities by continuing to support local school centered decision making about our schools and programs.

[Amika (Central Vermont Career Center)]: Thank you for your attention.

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: Sure. Hello.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So I was in a mill river for Yeah.

[Amika (Central Vermont Career Center)]: Did Yeah. Brought

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: me back, you know, whatever, a number of decades. But I'm wondering, given everything you said, very eloquent, very articulate, how do you respond to what we're doing with Act 73? Know what we're doing.

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: I do, I do. You know that from

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: my day compared to current day, we're roughly near whatever, near half the student population.

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: Yes.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: What do we do? How do we address the current scenario? It

[Amika (Central Vermont Career Center)]: is so hard. My first consideration is always student well-being. And so, I think even if there is consolidation, I would hope that there would not be a big distance between where students currently are and where they end up. Because too much time on school buses is too much time on school buses. In our district, it's currently too much time on school buses, and that's with these children going to school in their communities. So, number one is childhood well-being not being on the school bus too much. I think, two, that we have to look at what the bigger schools are offering and what are the strengths of those, and whether or not consolidation is even a good idea. If some programs are really large and they're doing really well and the facilities that are there to support those programs, I think we should keep them. And maybe it becomes a situation where not all of the students from one district have to be in one building. If they're following programs that they want to do. For example, I'm thinking about the music program at Mill River, which is so strong. You would not want to take Mill River students and put them in Rutland, where my own children went and my children benefited from Snapper Technical Program. I feel like I know the education in that area. But why would you give up a beautiful stage and beautiful auditorium to just have kids in a building that, I don't know, I'm so compassionate about it. Just have kids decide where they want and then figure out what is sustainable. Maybe you do consolidate a couple of schools in order to use all the space in one of the larger buildings, and then, but still give the older kids the choice of where they want to be for their programs. Thank

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Thank you all for coming. Can can I yep. Being that Collins here and sharing this, it's organized by the NDA. Yeah. So so first off, for full disclosure, my wife's an educator. Okay? So I I talk education constantly. Right? And I hear all hear what you say. We all respect what you're doing. This is your opportunity being up in the state house to affect or at least have influence on policy and there's a bill right now circulating around which is specifically targeted targeted that word specifically focused on health care in relation to teachers, in relation to negotiations. And I'm just wondering if we can just take a sec and see if they've got any feelings, not so much from Colin, but from the teachers on that conversation. Do you support this negotiate this bill about negotiating?

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: Personally, no. And I know that the president of my school board recently wrote an op ed supporting this approach of taking negotiation and doing it district by district, and she talked to me beforehand because she was so nervous about that piece. She actually told me what she was writing, but she said, I believe healthcare is a right. It's not about removing healthcare from anyone. Respectfully, I disagree with her. We have a healthcare crisis in this state. It's not an education healthcare crisis. It's a healthcare funding crisis for all Vermonters, and simply saying, well, let's make sure that we're not negotiating at a state level, because Vermont NEA keeps winning those, and so we're doing this, but do it district by district so maybe we can pay less in some districts for some of our teachers than other teachers get in other of our districts, seems unjust, and it misses the point. Right? If we pay more per person for health care in this state than our neighboring states, Bargaining with individual locals is not gonna address that problem. It's just gonna give some people worse health insurance. I don't think it bend the curve.

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: And respectfully, think it kind of contradicts what the other bills in the state house is trying to get at. Like, if you're talking about consolidation of schools and you're talking about, like, the weighted funding formula that my old superintendent Jen Bossa Jordan's really pushed for for the Northeast Kiena specifically, being able to weight students differently based on their needs. Right? That is how you equal the playing field in Vermont. Because of the ruralness of Vermont, what would I know what happened with that bill is Chittenden County Schools are going to get an agreement that's gonna benefit those educators. Right? And then the rural districts that don't have as much money and have, you know, taxpayers who are voting down districts constantly are not gonna get that same amount at their local. And so you're just, again, creating this divide in the state, and you're weighting educators differently. You're valuing an educator in Chittenden County more than an educator in a rural area. And I just I don't like, I think if we're trying to say we're gonna unify public education and we're gonna have a strong public education in Vermont, we need to stand by that and not have it be district by district because then you're just divert you're again going to split up the state again.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: You had something? I thought I was on the list,

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: but I guess I wasn't, if it makes sense.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Oh, weren't on the list, but if you'd like to go over for that.

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: I'll make it brief, if Yeah, don't yes.

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Yeah. My name is

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: Eric Hutchins. I'm a social studies teacher at the Wall Union High School in Hyde Park. I'm also a resident of Danville where my son attends Danville High School. First, I wanna thank you for what I thought was the best policy ever to come out of this body, which was universal school meals. At the school that I teach at, that meant that kids who were formerly chronically tardy showed up on time to get breakfast. Kids that were formerly chronically absent showed up because they knew they could get a good meal. And most importantly, means kids who would have otherwise gotten hungry are now getting fed in our schools. It's just a uniformly positive and impactful bill, so thank you for your support of that. It's based on evidence. I know there was a lot of testimony from a lot of education staff and support staff in favor of that, and so thank you for listening. I thought that was the most impactful bill until the cell phone ban came out last year, which was absolutely the most positive that we've ever had in our schools, in that students who were formally doing this for large portions of their day started talking to each other, talking to their peers, playing board games, God forbid doing their homework, and engaging in a whole bunch of other incredibly constructive, important social experiences, and I think that you folks listen to educators, and you listen to the evidence, and you push that a lot forward, and it's proof to me that if you listen to educators, you listen to Vermonters, and we look at evidence, we can come up with a policy that really has a positive impact on our schools. As a resident of Danville, I've witnessed a couple of votes. In 2024, we had freshman house member and a and a new member of the senate elected both Republicans in what had formerly been Democratic seats for a very, very long time. I believe that was in response to what was, you know, a property tax escalation that was rightfully seen as a serious issue. Since that time, my town had a vote on December 6 on whether to close our high school. That same town that voted these new legislators because they were concerned about property taxes voted four eighty to 75 to keep our high school open. This is on a cold Saturday, and it was not a balcony. You had to be in person. You had over 600 people in that gym show for that vote. I think the message to take away as far as listening to constituents is folks want the property tax fixed. They do not want to close their rural public schools, not even select grades at their rural public schools. And I know that the governor is insistent on a fix very soon, but I would urge you to take your time and get this right, because if you force through something that educators don't want, and rural towns don't want, and administrators and school boards don't want, you will be back at the table again fixing an even bigger problem with a bill that did not serve the needs and was not, frankly, evidence based. I would encourage you to take a look at the Redistricting Task Force Plan. Again, I know a lot of people haven't read it. It is the most well researched, and the only thing that offers evidence of actually saving money, and we'll do it deliberately town by town, make mergers over time that make sense for each district. And I would also respond to Ms. Sullivan's comments about early college with an anecdote. I had a student, a really, really bright student, great kid, leader in our school, who applied for the early college program. Went to, was supposed to go to CCV, where he would take five classes one semester and five classes the next semester, all but one of them being online classes. This student spent his whole senior year in his bedroom, Okay? And he could have taken a wide variety of AP classes at

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: her school, which he could

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: have gotten college credit for. He could have taken my Introduction to Philosophy class, which the AP is telling me is even more challenging than those AP classes. And so I will second the deck, a reexamination of who's taking those. And the dual enrollment program does allow kids to take college class for college credit while also having the experience in their junior year. That student was also a leader in our school for other students that we missed out on having there. In any case, I think Act 73 is trying to respond very quickly to a moment, but it is not taking into account the evidence and the widespread cries from providers, small towns, and educators. Thank you so much for

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: your time and breaking you down. Couple of questions.

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Sure. That student that decided to take them through what happened, did he regret it? Did he, what's, because if we're looking at the student's need, as much as we look at it as a social aspect as well, in the end, it's his, their life. What do we, what's

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: So the same about I'll tell you that I lobbied for us, school counselors, parents, principals, this student should not be doing this. This is not gonna help them. They said I need it because I have a financial need, and this is gonna get me college credits that I'll need. I'm gonna go to CCB for two years after, and then transfer those credits to UVM. I wanna be a doctor, I'm gonna get to med school, and I would not be able to afford it. Talked to him this year sometimes, he's now a graduate at CCV, and he's really disappointed in the education that he's getting. He says that online classes, it's a lot of AI slob, and he's not pleased with the education he's getting there. We offer a high quality education at one of high school. We had a student who graduated last year as the valedictorian of Dartmouth. We create challenging opportunities for kids, and dual enrollment, I do think, serves kids. I think early college needs to be seriously examined.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Just to understand the landscape, which high school took, or which community took the vote on which high school?

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: Danville High School is a pre K through 12 school that serves Danville, and then has choice from Peach and Barnett, Walden, and other schools in the surrounding St. Jane, sends some of their kids there.

[Chrissy Park (Brookfield School, 4th grade)]: King of Meas, as well.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So which school was it that you were about

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: So Danville High School, that pre K through 12 had a voter petition, came from someone who happened to be an educator at St. John's Berry Academy, which would benefit from the closing of the Angola High School. They got enough signatures to force us to take a vote on whether they'd close grades nine through 12 at our high school. There were several informational meetings, there was a lot of public comment, and four eighty to 75 to keep that high school open. Okay, you. Thank you.

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yes,

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: so I want you to take a look at our position right here. Know, the problem we've got is a student problem. We don't have enough. And we're trying to get out in front of the decline student population that they expect by the time Act 73 filing rolls out, it'll be less than 70,000 students. What do we do?

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: That's a great question. I've been thinking about this a lot, And what we're doing is we're looking at, we have this aging demographic in the state, it's a big problem. We desperately want to have young families move to our state and to have our young people stay in our state. Boy, does closing their schools that they went to and they're gonna graduate from seem the wrong message to send if we want to keep kids and we want to attract families. Just the votes that destabilize these communities. People are like, Oh, we really want to move to Cabot, but they voted 55 times last year, whether it's closer school, I want my kids to go to a local or metro school. I don't want risk to that, we're going to lose that. So those folks in themselves are destabilizing. But instead of asking yourselves, how small can a school get before we should close it? We should be saying, how can we get more people into these communities? Right, how can we get more families? And I would say, you know, an education based income tax, can you imagine removing the education property tax? What's that gonna do for people who wanna buy a new home, their first home, if they don't have to pay the escrow, right, on the education property tax, and we go to an education based income tax, that would just make so much sense. We a housing affordability problem, and we have an education funding problem. It just makes so much sense that we go to an income based education tax that would solve two things, or it's a very neat solution.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: So you may or may not be aware that the Senate Finance Committee did take testimony on the property tax versus income tax question. That question is in their, that's within their wheelhouse. I do recommend, take a look at that, just look on the agendas, find the day, find the YouTube recording, and you'll see that conversation happening. I believe that they rejected the concept, but at least you need to hear pros and cons and testimony and what have you. Thank you. Well, just roll for it. And there are some out there that would like us all just to move into the city centers and, you know, give up our homes in the country. Yeah. I mean, that's where we're headed. You know, either that or

[Sen. Terry Williams (Clerk)]: a one room schoolhouse. Yeah, so we close all

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: of the rural schools, that

[Helen Sullivan (Montpelier High School teacher)]: is where we're headed.

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: That's not what I want. I my I want to pass my house on in West Hamlet to my kid. Think it's a beautiful place

[Sen. Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: to raise kids. Is. 100%.

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Thank you.

[Eric Hutchins (Lamoille Union HS social studies teacher; Danville resident)]: Thank you so much for listening. Really Thank appreciate

[Sen. David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: you. Now we're adjourned.

[Mark Brown (U-32 English/Journalism teacher; East Calais resident)]: Thank you. Thank