Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: We're live.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We're live. Alright. It's the Senate Education Committee on the afternoon of February 24. We're the person we're doing today is taking up s two thirty two, National League of Public Libraries and Department of Libraries, and

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: the fact that

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: we could say we haven't heard perfectly just like,

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: you know, would you introduce yourself? So, like, my

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: name is Nicole Miller. I'm the executive director for Mott After School.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Okay. And you don't know all of us.

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Hi, Potter. It's really nice to meet you. Dave

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Weeks, serving Rutland County. Excellent. Thank you. Seth Bongartz from the Bennington Center District. Terry Williams also from Warren. Steven Heffernan, Addison County District.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: For the record, you are? For

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: the record, I'm the Oklahoma Executive Director of Vermont. Okay.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Well, you know the history. You've probably watched some of it. So, So, we've been spending a lot of time with this bill, and I think you're here for one provision in particular. Talk about that, the one provision under a considerable amount or some percentage of the library. But I think we want to do it really that you're

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: do what, how much you see if

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: you can grant some of the whole offense of good debt as far as losses.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Absolutely. So I'll start by reading my written testimony, and then if there are questions, can have me to do whoever to verify.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: You have a copy of that?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Yes, it's posted today. And then all the documents are. So again, good afternoon. My name is Nicole Miller. I'm the executive director of Ramon After School. Ramon After School is a nonprofit organization that does not run after school and summer programs. Rather, we do a lot of professional development support for those that are running after school and summer programs. So, we are working to strengthen after school and summer programs to empower young people and to expand access so that any child or youth in Vermont who wants to attend after school and summer programming has the opportunity to do so. Our organization works with all types of after school and summer programs or programming entities. Those include childcare programs, schools, libraries, parks and recreation, YMCAs, boys and girls clubs, museums, teen centers, and many other youth serving organizations. I'm a member of the after school and summer Advisory Committee created through Act 78, and our organization also serves as the Vermont affiliate for both the National After School Association and the fifty state after school network. And I really thank you for the opportunity to speak about 32 today. I wholeheartedly support public libraries as part of the after school and summer landscape in Vermont. But I have concerns about S-two 32 and setting aside funds for a certain type of entity. I'll walk through a few points of why I have concerns. First, libraries are already eligible. When we worked on that language for eligibility for these funds, it was crafted as public, private, or non profit organizations. It was intentionally flexible to allow any entity to apply as long as they were using the funds in alignment with the fund's purpose to expand after school summer programming. Second, I'm really concerned about setting a precedent. This is not the first time that we've had a group come forward and try to ask for a certain percentage or a set aside of funds. Frankly, there are so many entities that could come forward and do that. Those include municipal parks and recreation committees or departments, schools, both public and private, childcare businesses, libraries, mentoring organizations, career technical centers, museums, teen centers, YMCAs, boys and girls clubs, scouting groups, small and large nonprofits, I could practically go on. So, there are a lot of players in this space, and it's really important for us to be able to see that as a whole and be able to look and see what's happening community by community for programming and also be able to talk about variety, who are the players in that space. Again, I'm really concerned about setting a precedent that would diminish the state and frankly the after school summer advisory committee's ability to track progress towards universal after school. Again, that programming variety and access to variety and programming and quality over the next several years. Also, it doesn't allow Vermont communities to identify the best partners and entities to operate programming within their given community. It basically says, well, here's one thing that can happen. And we're setting that aside and really releasing some of that choice for communities. Third, I think that there are some administrative options. And I would encourage the committee to allow those of us that are involved to have some internal conversations within the agency of education, within the after school summer advisory group, with partners, with libraries, with others to look at where is it a challenge? How can we streamline the application? How can we do some options that don't involve policy changes to XMDA directly? How can we then leverage those partners like the Vermont Libraries Association, the Department of Libraries, and those of us that are already involved to make sure that libraries and other small nonprofits, right, there are lots of other entities that haven't been able to access the funds either yet. What I have heard in some cases is it's about language. It's about the length of the application and I'm typically working with the agency to provide that feedback. In some cases, they have made some tweaks to that language. Again, I think that there are some administrative options that can happen that don't involve a policy change.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Are you almost done? I'm almost done. Okay, finish then off.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Okay, Absolutely. I will say also while I was not there, I know the After School and Summer Advisory Committee that met earlier this month did talk about this specific bill and some of the challenges around the application length. And I do know that Kendall Smith, is the chair of that committee, of Labor Commissioner, that she said she is willing to come in and testify and share a little bit about that should it be decided by the committee. Lastly, I'll just say that I know that there have been a lot of questions from this committee about whether libraries have been able to access the funds, the Act 78 funds specifically. And while the agency event did report that hasn't been able to happen yet, libraries were able to access two really critical funding sources that happened during the pandemic that were designed for community based organizations, non LEAs, which included libraries, municipalities, etcetera. Those included summer members for all grant funding that Vermont Afterschool administered in the 2021, as well as the Afterschool and Summer Expanding Access Grants in summer twenty twenty two, after school 'twenty two, 'twenty three, and summer twenty twenty three. That grant ranged from $20,000 to $200,000 depending on how many parts of that grant period they were surveyed. And during that summer matters for all grant, again, was 2021, we did award seven public libraries funding through those funds. And then during the after school and sorry, after school and summer expanding access grants, again, was twenty two-twenty three, we awarded another seven public libraries funding. COVID funds? Those were COVID tested So, funds, while it hasn't been able to happen under Act 78 yet, it doesn't demonstrate that libraries are a really critical part of the after school summer landscape, and we're able to apply for, receive, and access grant funds. I do think that the agency of ed is wanting to make sure that all entities are able to access those funds. So, I'll hop there and thank you.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So, just tell us first, help me understand, how do you interact with the agency in the transcriptional response? Sure. What's your role? Because when Nehemiah was here, you didn't come up, so they just talked about it's got a new hit, but it's curious to me you've got a role here.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: We have a couple of different roles. One is as a member of the After School and Summer Advisory Committee. That group is primarily made up of state leaders across Department of Mental Health, Department of Health, Department of Labor, many others, Governor's Office, and then there are various members of the public that have been attending, including from the Department of Libraries. So, that's one role that Vermont After School plays. So, we're advisory to the Agency of Education in how to spend and track those at $78 Second, transparently, Vermont After School has a contract with the Agency of Education to support the twenty first Century Community Learning Center funded programs. That's work that we do that's very similar to the Child Development Division, which we do a lot of professional development and training, support for individuals, site assessments. We do a chunk of work in that area that we do with a variety of other programs as well. Third is with the grants I had mentioned, because everything was coming down so fast and furious during the pandemic, the Agency of Education was focused on supporting those SRO pandemic era funds within schools, and they asked Vermont After School to administer the community based organization funding, which we did during that time period.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Did you say at the beginning of '21, walked by Whole and T3?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: We are a non profit organization, How

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: do you get funded?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Through some of the state contracts and grants that I mentioned, as well as private organizations and a little bit of fee for service.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: And just to follow-up once more, if folks give you over the Senate Williams, what role do you actually play in the distribution of the funds that come from the cannabis money?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Not any direct, so I don't read the grants, I don't do any of the scoring, excuse me. Really our role as the advisory committee is just to give feedback to the agency of education. Specifically, I see my role as Vermont After School is being able to lift up voices that I'm hearing from the field, again across that large landscape of providers, and make sure that that voice is being heard at that table. Thank you. Senator Williams.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: So you don't have anything to do with the pumping? Is there a list someplace with where the money goes?

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: We actually have the. You didn't know it, but it's there. Okay, Scott. It's in your file. Mean, Treba, what you're saying is you're talking about giving some time to figure out when we talked about this with the agency it at least became clear to me that the application even the one that takes only ten hours instead of one week And then the reporting requirements are even put it this way, small grit of the juices are worth the squeeze. And I sort of listened to that and went, okay. We are effectively giving out white words. And because we all know our local whiteberries, they've had,

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: you know, that a lot of

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: them are tiny and they have, and yet small amounts of money could actually make a huge difference from that in summer or after school or summer, whatever the proteins they're trying to do. And so The whole, the grant projects are working right. That's the real issue because, and I raised the issue with, with the honest, about doing a very light blue shift where it's, you know, it's a page and a half or two pages, and then your recording is a page. Or it's just like we're handing out, you know, a couple thousand dollars here and there, or a few thousand, depending on what it is, instead of having it be such a monumental pain to deal with. And is that what you're talking about, trying to?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I think that's one option that those of us that are on the After Small and Summer Advisory Committee are having conversations about and are wanting to bring that forth to the Agency of Education to really implore them to consider that. And what needs to The approach that I would take would be to look at what is in that reporting requirement, what's in that grant application, and how can it really be streamlined and reduced down it's commensurate with the amount of funds requested. I think another option that we did see a little bit during the grant funds that we administered is we saw a couple of libraries come in for a grant application together. And I think that might be one thing that could be considered as well. I just think that there are a lot of avenues that can be explored, and I'm really concerned about, again, setting aside a percentage of funds when I know there are 15 other types of entities that will also try to do the same. And then that really diminishes the state, as well as the after school and summer advisory committee's ability to look across the state. What progress are we making with the investment of those funds? Where are we seeing access expand? Where are we seeing programming expand? And be able to look at that holistically across the whole state. As well as, I know that the agency is working to build out some of the quality and other supports for all types of grants you've signed with these Act 78 funds. And so I worry that they might lose out of those opportunities as well.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: I've seen a lot of organizations that make grants have very simple questions for small organizations because they can't help them to lend out and have them.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Okay? I think that there are options available, and I know that the agency has worked hard to stand up this grant program, and I applaud them for those efforts. And I think now we see where there are programs and types of entities. Libraries are not the only ones that I've heard of. I've spoken to several teen centers. I've spoken to several smaller nonprofits, and too, have felt some of that concern or tension like, Oh, this feels like it's too big for what we're trying to do. And so, think that now we're two years in, now what can we do to revise the grant program and consider, is there another third tier? Is there another option so that we can create against more equity across all the types of entities that are able to apply and receive funds?

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, Senator Rashim? So, I maybe this is a question for you, or I'll let you know, but I thought initially the idea was to allow the Department of Libraries to basically do one application for a chunk of money and then disperse it as they see fit to different libraries, rather than the 5%. So the 5% is a

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: new concept? By the way, there are two versions in front of you. The other one just has the language reasonable language. It's kind of a policy choice to get to be made. We heard somebody somebody came in and talked about 5%. So we have one version showing that. We have the other version showing that. But but your point is still we'll take it. Whether and that's something that I and I don't know. I think the Department of Libraries, if I recall your testimony, you can't be that. So you work on the record.

[Catherine Delneo (State Librarian and Commissioner, Department of Libraries)]: Catherine Del Nau, state librarian and commissioner of the Department of Libraries. My team and I looked at the application materials and we did not see a way for us as a department to apply and then sub grant the funds to public libraries. And I am not a legal expert, but that was just our look at the various options, both the smaller amount of money and the larger amount of money, the ten hour application, the twenty hour application. We did not When we asked for some information about was there an opportunity, could we do this, how could we do this earlier this year, there was not a clear path forward for my colleague and I to pursue. That does not mean that there could not be a path forward, it just means that when I'm reading the language of the application, it didn't seem to speak to a department of the state or an agency of the state applying for funds to administer. And so we did not pursue an application during the application period. At this moment, the state librarian or a designee are not on the committee, but the committee's been very generous welcoming us, and you must not have been there at was the most recent running another after school meeting. Yeah, I attended and gave a presentation the committee. Hi. Hi. To the council about summer reading at libraries and that is in general, not with a specific ask, but that was a public meeting and can be watched, and the committee's response to that, and their conversation is all there for the public. I did not hear even at that point that the current structure would support the department applying year after year to have some portion of the money for the program. The department's program, its current program, is at the scale of one of these sub recipients of the grant, or the recipients of the grant. As I had shared with you all previously, our entire Summer Reading Program funding in recent years has been roughly $50,000 So, what individual libraries are applying, they might be looking at a much smaller amount per library. Our grant to public libraries right now is $350 per year. I think that there is a potential and I would love to explore that potential if this language does not end up in the final bill. We at the department would argue very strongly that libraries are a trusted, reliable source in most communities in Vermont, not every community in Vermont, and that the statewide summer reading program is a really valuable thing that we are doing as a state to support literacy for all That is different in my mind, but of course, I'm the state librarian. That's what I'm paid to say. It's very different in my mind from some of the other programs, which are also valuable in their own right. Just for context, that's where the department is at risk.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Oh, okay. I'll go last. Four hands at once.

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: To have a follow-up. Follow-up, okay. I'm looking at the document that we have from AOE. Do we know if some of these entities, speaking of random one, Addison School District, almost $75 that they get, does that get dispersed from the district to different private after school programs?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Does anybody know?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I can speak to what I think is. So, in my past, I ran at 21 C after school program within our Living Southwest Supervisory Unit. And so, what we did as part of our grant, I know that there are a lot of grant ees that do this, and I expect that the same is true for the Act 78 grantees, that the funds might be awarded to the school district or to any other type of entity. Then they are partnering with many of the other community based providers to share those resources back and forth. For example, I know the Burlington City District has agreements with the Boise and Girls Club of Burlington in which there's some funding that goes to them.

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. So, I mean, just a comment. I mean, at the moment, not with those, that is 5% in there, if it'd be going with another state agency. But if there's a way that's not agreeable, the committee also supportive of having a similar situation that we have now for some of these other entities where the Department of Libraries applies for its own grant, however much they get, and then they can disperse them, the multiple smaller libraries throughout the state. I think that it overcomes the bureaucratic issues of just the night of the application for any.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So just to put this in here, Daphne, we have an agency that's under me. Thursday. Thursday. Yeah. They were supposed to be here today, virtually, but they'd be on Thursday to answer because I think what we also heard is that right now, the application doesn't work in a way that we let that happen. Right. So okay. You have a set of.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Well, I as to Senator Hinsheen's point, I believe that it would be best to give the library a little bit of the funding to sue as to cut some of the bureaucracy out of it. Because now you have a group where they know what they need. And I guess, for me, it's finding that number, that percentage that the library says, This is funny. Because I wouldn't think every year we have to come back and go through the same application when it's like, hey, this is what we have to fill out. Why do you fill out the application? If you fill out the application in time, you don't get the money. So, I think it would be automatic, the libraries have been instituted at Vermont since Vermont's been Vermont. It's worth giving them a little bit of the buy.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So,

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I had a side conversation, and I, you know, I don't think anybody wants to, you know, not accept money that might be handed to them, but at the same time, my understanding is the Agency of Education has asked for $700,000 for Vermont Read, and my understanding is they haven't collaborated with the libraries at all on that. I've been wanting testimony on literacy and their request for $700,000 for Vermont Reads, and there's a lot of things that still floor me. It floors me that I know. Mommy's being loud. It floors me that Agency of Education has money sitting in this fund that they can't figure out how to get to people, and they haven't come proactively with the solution to that. And it floors me that they're saying they're watching Vermont Reads and we're talking all about summer reading and literacy programs and they haven't done anything to collaborate with the libraries.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Good.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: This just to me comes back to us trying to solve problems around an agency that is not doing enough to partner with people.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Going back to my original question, I just went down through the list and point one entity in my district that got 56,000 domestic boys and girls. Yet there was one other entity that asked for a 121,000. So who's the traffic cop for the rooms and the bills? I also see supervisor interviews and school districts in here. Mhmm. My understanding was that money was not supposed here, to the So

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I can speak to the eligibility language that is in the legislation, or is it in the meeting? I'm so sorry. The legislation that currently governs Act 78 is the eligibility language is public, private, and non profit organizations. That does include schools. I think you might be thinking about the there was a hiccup around the funds originally brought in the end fund, and there was a hiccup around that because of the poison pill thing that is not part of this So, current Act 78 funds are a special fund and eligibility is public, private, and non profit organizations, which includes schools, it includes municipalities, it includes libraries. I wonder, I know that the library, again, or the agency of education, I wanna be clear, I'm not speaking for the agency of education, I'm speaking as understanding the whole context of what's happening on a state. I do understand that the agency is looking at, is there another tier of grant opportunity, right? So, right now there's the center track and there's the program track. I know that there have been conversations and plans around a regional technical assistance provider and I wonder if that's where perhaps the Department of Libraries might be able to plug in. That's made for organizations that go into programs. Maybe there could be some language shifted to make it more applicable to the Department of Libraries to again receive those funds and be able to disperse them out. Just think that there are some non policy options that are available. And again, I'm really, really concerned that if we open up Act 78 eligibility language and add things or separate out funds, then it diminishes the ability for the after school and summer advisory committee to be able to look at that progress across the state. Frankly, there will be other entities that will come forward and ask for a percentage of those funds. Then you actually reduce equity, quite frankly. I know that the agency at Ed is very focused on schools. We've been pushing them to support community based organizations, support others, and there has been some progress in that direction. Is it where we want it to be? No, but we're two years in. So

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: I don't see the equity now. That's what I'm trying say. And, you know, we understood that LEAs were to get the money. But I know that a lot of schools that do participate and provide the schoolhouse for the after school program. Why shouldn't we do this? When Addison does and Chittenden County does, according to the solicitor.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I will say that there are far more entities, and we saw this with the funds that we administered, including the funds we're still administering for the Child Development Division for licensed programs to expand their access, is there are always far more applicants than there is money. While I have not looked at the Agency of Education's books, I think that they are fully expending on Act 78. They are doing it in a way that is setting aside the funds for the future years so they don't end up in a situation because each of those grants is either three and a half years or five years. So, they're setting aside those funds. I understand that from a conservative approach, right? So, I think they are fully expending those funds. Yes, there was some start up time in that very first year in which the committee was trying to form, they were trying to stand up the grant program, but I think they are making real progress. And again, I caution you all to think about what is to preclude six other entities, types of entities, to come forward next year and to ask for funding for their own set aside. Know you really lost that ability to look at after school and summer schools.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Like what other entity might come forward, do think? Team center missing, mentor organizations. So, my review of that would be, this is a state agency. We're not, and it's going to, that money's going to the state agency to disperse. If a private entity comes in, it's like, that's not what it's meant for. It's meant for a state agency. So they can come in and ask, they can apply for this. If they're not applying for this, that's something to have. The library right now is saying, you know, we provide a service at very low money, and we're just looking to get a little bit more people to do. If it can be sorted out at the AOE and they get, you know, a certain amount money every year, then I don't think we would need this. Personally, I wouldn't wanna wait to see how long it can take to work that out for COVID.

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: Well, some of the issues, I'd say I second just about everything Senator Heffernan just said. It's a state agency that this would be going to rather than, you know, putting it in the statute that it's going to private agency or private entity. And, well, actually, I'll just leave it there. I just I I agree with what's that written saying. Oh. Not actually written there, but it could be. Right. So

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: that was new information for me, what you said. This is an ongoing revenue source. We're not expecting it to diminish. It's a growing revenue story. But, you're saying that AOE sets aside the entirety of a four year grant Mhmm. In that appropriation. They

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: said that, they were here.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Okay. So

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: if they give their organizations, about 100,000 a year for three years, they said at $5 a year, They have been at a back to those budget. They don't take it out of next year or next year.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Okay. I mean, but all the first year. We don't do any of our other budgeting. Mean, for the most part.

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: That is what can do. I'm trying to relax. Shit. I can't

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: see it.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: It ends up being the same amount of money,

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: but The funds don't run out, so they're saying. Anyway Funds are

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: for I think to be very conservative. I think maybe partially because nobody's really sure yet how this cannabis revenue in other states has gone. So that may be one thing, right?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: He explained it quite well. He said, I didn't want, you don't wanna give out a $250,000 grant, deplete all that money that So was that $250,000 grant is big. No, I get it,

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: but we don't do any of that.

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: I'm gonna pay the $50,000 grant.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Well, at least a grant, I guess, over So money, once it's given to you, that's meant to be a grant.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Yes.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So maybe on Thursday, we'll have to be giving some more this week, we'll honest with you, be back with the secretary, we can get a feel for what it would be. It feels like there is something that could happen quickly, even though the ones you've been talking about that relates to civil obligation for sport or something that allows the association with their aid department to access months themselves.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: So Can you see if

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: we if we get an answer to the board.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Can you ask the secretary to be prepared to talk about why they haven't collaborated with the libraries on Vermont Reads?

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah, I mean, that's a separate I don't know, a separation.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I mean, I've trying to get more information on Vermont Reads, and they have a pending appropriation request that has not been granted by the appropriations committee.

[Senator David Weeks (Vice Chair)]: You heard that right now, but yeah. Okay. Did

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: you want to say something?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I did want to share in response to Just Senator's to leave,

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: in case people can't see who are.

[Catherine Delneo (State Librarian and Commissioner, Department of Libraries)]: Sure. Katherine Del Neaux, the State Librarian and Commissioner of the Department of Libraries. There has been a recent meeting on that topic. Okay. This past Friday, but the prior Friday, there was a meeting with AOE staff and the department about Vermont Reads. It was a preliminary conversation. So, I just wanted to share that there has been Okay, okay. That seems like a more appropriate way for funds to flow to libraries from AOEs to meet this. Possibly. The conversation was really very preliminary, so there wasn't any discussion of specifics. It was more about the department supporting for mock reads.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: So I think we're down to the single weapon that's with this bill.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Most important one. Yeah. To be earmarked funds.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Yeah. It's over. Dean of the library.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: Okay. So, anything else for us? Any other questions?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: That's the thing that I've, you know, I'm happy to continue working with you on this, though. We appreciate your Thank

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: you. Thank you. You're Thank you. So

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: we are we're a joint hearing finance committee at 02:15. So this had been relatively long wait, so it's looking until 02:15.

[Senator Terry Williams (Clerk)]: Do you need to restart her? Well, we really weren't ready for Okay.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Why I normally don't know because this is Right. Deal is the issue in front of us. I think otherwise, I guess we now that you say that, probably because they have a quite a walkthrough that's in front of us, but I think we're good, I think it was good to sign something, if I

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: get my sense in support, that one issue. Are we remote for

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: the joint hearing, or what did we do with your partner?

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: Couldn't I get up remotely? I just don't think she's gonna make it.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Member)]: I'm almost scared.

[Nicole Miller (Executive Director, Vermont Afterschool)]: I was trying to, like, get her a nap battle. Can tell us that.

[Senator Seth Bongartz (Chair)]: Just for the people watching, we're journeying until we go into a joint hearing with Senate Finance at 02:50.