Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Economic development and, by right, tourism. And I'm Alison Clarkson. Chair

[Unidentified committee/staff member]: Are we live?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Yes. Okay. We're always live, but we are additional. I'm Alison Clarkson. I chair Senate, Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs. And we'll all introduce ourselves because we represent the vast reaches of our small but mighty state. I just want to welcome you. You are our partners. You welcome people to Vermont. You set the tone for how people experience Vermont. You're responsible for an over $4,000,000,000 economic sector, which we are so proud of, and responsible for, well, welcoming over millions and millions of visitors to Vermont, some of whom we hope will become full time residents because we need to attract more people. So you're sort of the forehold point. So we appreciate whatever tone you set to welcome people to Vermont who may be long term Vermonters. So with that, I think we're going to introduce ourselves and go around the table and welcome you all. Good morning,

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: everyone. My name is Mike Marcock. I'm the chair of the House Commerce and Economic Development. I'm from Coventry, so I represent the Orleans Memorial District. So I represent Coventry, Irisburg, Newport Town, Troy J Westfield, and Lindy.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Oh, he's just showing off. I represent the Windsor District.

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: But we are in a in as you can tell, we're in a rural area of state but just want to say thank you for coming today. We really appreciate you taking time to come and see us and talk to us and tell us what's going on in in your world of economic development. But you are the introducers to Vermont. You introduce all our tourists to Vermont, how Vermonters act and react with with people outside of the state and help bring those people continue to bring them into the state. Hopefully, some of them stay here. They grow roots. So, thank you for all you do.

[Unidentified participant (multiple attributions under this ID)]: I am just introducing Eddie Branning, vice chair of House

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: of Congress and Economic Development. I live in Jericho and represent Jericho and I

[Senator Thomas Chittenden]: 'm Tom Chittenden. I serve in the senate. I represent the Southeast area of Chittenden County and

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: you are all why people love Vermont. So, thanks for being here today.

[Unidentified participant (multiple attributions under this ID)]: Everybody, I'm happy Duke, representing part of the most beautiful.

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Good morning. I'm Senator David Weeks. I live in Procter and I represent Rutland County. Good morning, Representative David Bosch. I live in Clarendon.

[Representative Dave Potter]: I represent Wallinger, Clarendon, West Rutland, and the larger portion of

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Rutland County. House Collins.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: I'm senator Randy Brock. I represent Franklin County and Northern Grand Isle County, and I'm the vice chair of senate economic development.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: So I think without further ado, we're gonna kick it off with Amy Spear, our own director of match.

[Amy Spear (President, Vermont Chamber of Commerce)]: Thank you. Good morning, members of the committee. My name is Amy Spear. I'm the president of the Vermont Chamber of Commerce. I want to take a moment to thank all of the committee members for their presence here this morning. I also want to recognize Representative Duke, who is the champion of Tourism Economy Day here at the State House. And I would also be remiss if I didn't just take a moment to celebrate Senator Clarkson and Representative Markot for their years of support for Tourism Economy Day. I know you're winding down your time this session, but I think it's been close to ten years that you've been supporting this industry during Tourism Economy Day through your committee. Just want to take a moment to say thank you. Oh, very welcome. So today, being very brief, is about recognizing an industry that is foundational to Vermont's economy and identity. Tourism is not simply about visitation. It's about the businesses that make living, working, and thriving in Vermont possible. Our inns and hotels, restaurants, attractions, retailers, ski areas, guides, downtown businesses, you name it, it's connected to the tourism industry and the thousands of employees whose work creates the memorable experiences for visitors while sustaining communities year round. Tourism is one of Vermont's most powerful economic engines. It brings outside dollars into our state, supports jobs in every country, in every county, strengthens local tax bases, and sustains the small businesses that define our communities. In many parts of Vermont, tourism is what keeps main streets vibrant and rural economies resilient. At the Vermont Chamber, we say Vermont's future depends on people and places, and that is especially true in tourism. Visitors become repeat guests, second homeowners become residents, and travelers often become our strongest ambassadors. Tourism is not separate from our economic future. It is one of the clearest pathways into it. And with that, I will be brief with my remarks and say thank you again to the committee members for all of your time today.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Right. Thank you. So nicely said, our path into the future. Steve? Steve Wright, you're on deck? It's remote.

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: Steve's Steve's

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Okay, great. And then Brett McManus, you're on deck after Steve.

[Steve Wright (President & GM, Jay Peak; Chair, Ski Vermont Board of Directors)]: Good morning. Good morning, everybody. I don't know that I can be as brief as Amy. Sorry about that.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Can we see Steve full frame?

[Steve Wright (President & GM, Jay Peak; Chair, Ski Vermont Board of Directors)]: You don't need to see me full frame. Small frame is perfect for me.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: We're happy to see you full frame. Right, thank you.

[Steve Wright (President & GM, Jay Peak; Chair, Ski Vermont Board of Directors)]: Good morning, everyone. My name is Steve Wright, President and General Manager here at JPEG and the Chair of the Ski Vermont Board of Directors. Thank you to Chairs Clarkson and Marcotte, and and to your committees for the opportunity to testify, today during Tourism Economy Day. We just passed the 400 inches mark of natural snowfall, here as as chair Markot will attest to. He's been up and around this way. He has he has seen the snow. The snow is still here. I'm not sure what's happening down there in Montpelier, but Awesome. We still have we still have plenty of that snow around here and, right, wrong or indifferent, we're gonna still be going for another month, most likely here at JPEG, with skiing and riding, and we've had a, we've had a very strong season. We are certainly grateful for that, particularly this year because going into the season, you know, we had we had forecasted that our Canadian business was gonna be off, more than 30%, for reasons outside of our control. And we forecasted that back in May, it came through right at 30%, 35% off, which is where that landed. Luckily for us, The US side of the business indexed much better than that, because of that that snow that we that we got consistently throughout the winter. Our domestic business has more than made up for those visits that we're missing north of the border. That's not to say that we don't miss those Canadian visitors because we definitely do. And as we're painfully aware of the impact that the loss of those visitors had, on the businesses in and around the region. Because of the size and the reach of our sales department, we were able to pivot a year ago, last May, we were able to pivot into some alternative markets on the domestic side to bring new skiers, riders, and water parkers, conference business to the mountain, and the neighboring communities felt some of that spillover. But for the most part, you know, they did miss that Canadian business even more than we did. Now outdoor rec is a, it's a it's a key subset of Vermont's tourism sector. Obviously, the prerequisite for for a robust outdoor recreation economy is a healthy environment and having the capacity to to support, the outdoor rec economy is a healthy environment, and having the capacity to support and promote outdoor rec while protecting the environment is paramount. Regulation and permitting is a way that we balance housing and economic development with that healthy environment. That balance is key, and we need both.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: If you can hear us, you're frozen. It's that's alright.

[Ted Lawson (ECHO, Leahy Center for Lake Champlain)]: Let's know.

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: Maybe snowing up there.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Oh, it's and that's it. How long do we we might email him and suggest he come out go out and come back in. What do you think? Gary, what do you think? Yeah. Okay. Great. I we wanna hear from everybody. Now, any questions? So I think our hope is to hear from the people that are scheduled to speak, and then we'll have questions if we have time for questions. Think in lieu of finishing Steve's testimony, we will move to Brett so that we don't lose time here, and then we can always pivot back to Steve.

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: If he comes back, we'll yep.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: If he comes back, we'll obviously go back to him. But Brett McManus? Good morning.

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: Ready? Once again, I won't freeze up, and I'll try you believe it's gonna talk me out of me. So I had some slides that came with this as well. Oh, do I have control? There All we right. Perfect. Well, again, my name's

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: What about I think Steve just Oh, Those are Just some

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: of JP

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: come on. Okay. Go ahead.

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: All right. Cool. My name is Brett McManus. My wife and I present day, we're the owners of the Opera Inn, which was a small 17 unit boutique roadside motel right on the access road to Killington, Vermont. But two years ago, were just day to day, you know, we're a couple in our twenties living back in New York and we were coming up to Vermont every weekend. We come to ski and mountain bike. And the most vivid memory that I have is driving past like a lot of the old motels that are all along Route 4 driving up from Rutland. And just thinking at the time, wouldn't that be cool to like get in and do that for a career? And after, you know, months, about a year of digging in and learning about loans and talking to different owners, we found what was the Happy Bear Motel and it was an old, tired, rundown property, but just had really an incredible location right around all the restaurants. And as we got to know people locally, there was definitely a stigma about the property. A lot of these old places, they get their reputations. But I think coming from the outside and we just saw opportunity to fix this place up and give it a new life. And that's what we did. We kind of left life behind, we moved into the motel and we dug into renovation on it, which I'll cover here going forward. So, as I mentioned, it was a great property. It had a great walking location to all the businesses and all the restaurants, but it was definitely banged up just over years of use. I mean, it had been decades since the property really had a renovation. Had just been outdated, had things like TVs, but old electrical and plumbing and a lot of the things that are important to people that ultimately end up that a lot bad reviews that a lot of these properties get. With that, a lot of substantial damage to like heavy utility systems and things like that. But again, we just knew it had that great location and structurally it would sound like a lot of these buildings are, cosmetically, they're just a little bit messy, but they just need somebody to come in and pump a new life into them. For a property like this, I think the challenge is it needed a lot of work, but for a lot of these big hotel groups, it's tough to make these smaller ends work, but for somebody like us, it's a business that we can step into and run. So for us, it really made sense to come in and put some investment into this property. So that's what we did. Over the course of spring twenty twenty five, we did a full renovation on the property and really kind of rebranded the whole thing. Our goal is to come in and create a space that was clean, it was functional, not only for the skiers that come in and they're kind of our default gaps in the winter months, but trying to create a space that could be used in the other seasons as well. So creating a multi use space for mountain bikes, for motorcycle enthusiasts, other people that are coming the rest of the year, and that is really what we try to make our focus and really create a sound space that cosmetically not only look good, but for us, you know, we'll be able to last not only through our career with the property, but whoever takes it over from us down the road as well, just create a sound space, which fortunately we were able to do. Ultimately, we were able to welcome back guests old and new. It was really cool seeing people, you know, that had been staying at the property for decades that could still come back and stay. But the biggest thing is welcoming new people. I think one of the biggest challenges in Killington and a lot of these tourism towns is there's not, there's so many new people coming to stay and ski and there's not always, you know, great places for them to stay. So like people who used to day trip, for instance, now they were staying overnight, they were staying with us, they're eating and dining at the restaurants when typically they would have just driven home. That was really cool. For us, kind of live the dream now. It's really cool getting to run this in and be involved in the community, you know, not only personally for us, you know, recreating and things like that, but also being a younger face for a lot of the boards in town. My wife, Kesha, who's here with me today, she serves on the KPA, which is the local chamber of commerce. We've been able to kind of be younger faces in a lot of these clubs and organizations that I think has been really well welcomed. But the coolest thing that we got to do is kind of being young and into social media, and that's kind of what we do is we documented everything that we did. So, we created an Instagram account that you can see here called investors. And for us, it really just started as a cool way to document our renovation. We are kind of just making videos for grandma back home to keep her updated. But with that, really, like, it took off. A lot of people were really into what we were doing. They followed the renovation. And now we just talk a lot about our, you know, our day to day life running this motel and living in this great state. And the coolest thing that's come from that is the messages that we get on a weekly basis from other young people just like us that are very inspired to do the same thing that we've done. I think there's kind of this like cliche of people wanting to retire and move to Vermont and run a B and B. For us, we were just a real life example of how day to day people can do that. So it's been really cool sharing our journey with them, sharing our experiences. But more importantly, it's also been sharing some of the challenges that we went through as well because being, you know, day to day people, it can be hard to come and turn one of these properties around. So, there's a lot of education that we're doing on that as well. And just a couple of points that I wanted to share with you all today. Again, just some of those challenges that we've faced kind of stepping into this role and turning a property like this around. So we look at a lot of different spaces when we were looking for a property to take on. And one of the things that we learned really quickly is these are some old buildings. One of the things that makes them so special is a lot of these inns and motels and BNBs, they've been passed down through the generations for the last fifty plus years or so. But with that, one of the challenges is, you know, they can fall out of code compliance. There's things like electrical and plumbing that can be really difficult to to come into one of these properties. So for us being, you know, again, day to day people that have to get a loan for something like this, One of the challenges are when they're underwriting based on the income of a property. If you have like $500,000 of utility improvements for fire alarms and smoke detectors and things like that, that can be really challenging for people like us. It's something that we saw a lot in our time. It's properties that we looked at that are really cool, really great locations, but just need that oomph for, again, a lot of the safety systems and a lot of utility infrastructure that we've just saw falling out over the past couple of years, but that work needs to get done. It was just really hard for us to make pencil out with the loan. That was certainly a challenge that we faced with some of these properties that we still see sitting for sale today. One of the other really big things for us was just some of requirements for our Division of Fire Safety as well. You know, when we were coming in and we were doing our purchase process, we did inspections and we bought professional opinions in. And there's a lot of obvious things that we had to fix that we had to improve around the property. One of the things that was new for us in Vermont was just Division of Fire Safety itself. It's an organization that not a lot of other states have. It's a lot of local code enforcement officers that will come and they'll walk the building with you during due diligence and really give you a heads up of of what it is that they're looking to see done. One of the challenges that we face is they're busy guys. I mean, they're running all over the state doing different projects, and they just weren't available when we were looking to do our due diligence period. So for us, know, ultimately, what that looked like, you know, for instance, we get our loan, we do our renovation and contractor quotes and everything like that. After the fact, after we purchased, you know, they come through and they do their inspection. We ended up having to rewire our whole building, which is something that they were looking for. That was a pretty big blow to us. It was about $100,000 that we had to come with out of pocket at that time. But had we known earlier on in the process, we could have rolled that into our loan and it maybe would have been an extra $500 a month. So, you know, by no means, like it was something that needed to be done on the building. It was just when that information came for us that made the project really challenging. And as we've gotten to know a lot of peers and colleagues in the industry, it's a challenge that a lot of people like us face and that I think scares people away. I know it certainly scared us away from a few projects that we were looking at doing. That was one that we saw as well. And then one of the other things that's actually really cool to see is there are a lot of really cool programs in this state that I haven't seen anywhere else, you know, through either groups like Granite State Development Corp. I know they're in New Hampshire, but VITA here in Vermont, even for us locally, Cedar and Rutland, there's a lot of really cool programs that can help with some of these improvements that I talked about at the top here. We just found out about them a little too late in the process. You know, we learned out about a lot of these, like the the revolving loan fund that I know Cedar does down in Rutland. Really cool for improvements like this. The challenge for us is it doesn't seem like a lot of the, you know, the, especially the lenders and the banks that even they know about it. They're kind of that first line that we're working with to fund a project like this. They're not really aware of some of these programs. So while there are great things like the SBA five zero four and seven loans that ultimately allowed somebody like us to do a project like this. Again, they're looking at the income which makes some of the utility improvements tough. And by the time you find out about a loan or a product like Cedar or some of these groups offer, The bank has first position and second position, and there's just not a lot they can do after the fact. So again, it was really cool to see a lot of these programs, like even grants through the power companies and things like that. Some we have been able to utilize after the fact. But I think if we knew about those earlier on, it would just make projects that we had maybe turned away before viable. So really cool to see that. It's just you gotta really dig and it's all out there in the space. So, know, for us, these are just some of the lessons that we went through is we were going through this for the first time. You know, I think one of the really exciting things for us, especially being on the other side, is just seeing how we were able to come in and take on a project like this, fix up a property that probably would have sat there otherwise for a really long time and turn it into a space that a lot of people get to enjoy. Obviously, the tourists coming in, but even other local business owners and local residents that I think, at least from we've heard, like, driving by a little more than they used to. That that's been great. But there's certainly some of these challenges that we know others like us are still facing. And there are projects that we look back and see from a couple years ago that they're still sitting there with the weeds coming kind of growing in. But we know there's other people like us that are very inspired and very energetic to do a similar thing. I think if we could solve some of these problems here, or just make the pathway a little easier, a little more predictable, honestly, I think it would open up the door for a lot of people to do what we've done. So that's what I had today, you know, overall, just wanted to share our story and just some of the things that we faced and certainly welcome any questions if there are any.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Yeah, I think we'll do questions at the end, but we're We working on the resource have a whole thing we're working on. So, we should be hearing you on that.

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: Yeah, that'd be

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: huge. Resources you need to know about from the beginning.

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: Seems like you're the new ball too hard to perform.

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: Yes, I do.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: We're waiting for the televisions. Yeah.

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: Perfect. Perfect. Thank you so much.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Thank you. Steve back on?

[Unidentified committee/staff member]: Was but

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Okay. Got booted Then, Eric, we you are on deck. Aaron Warrenstuck. Welcome.

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: Thank you.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Pro pig. Yes.

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: Good morning. Thanks for having me. Amy, thank you for inviting me. The idea was there's been some discussion of a possible culinary school in Vermont or at least digging into the feasibility of such a thing. And a quick backstory. I've been in Vermont since 1999. I was working chef until 2013 until we had more than one restaurant. I've become more of a restaurant owner operator than a chef. Fast forward at this point, we have five restaurants, one with a little brewery. We have a little soda company. We did our first sort of consulting gig for a bigger hotel group in Burlington that was really fun. I think at the end of the day, while we're a big little company or a little big company by Vermont standards, you know, we have over 200 employees at this point, which is just wild to me because we started with a dozen or so twenty years ago. We're really a collection of small businesses. So our understanding is more of the trials and tribulations of the individual business. They're all separate. Everyone is employed by each individual business. I think we can commiserate more with our friends that are in the world of entry level business, small business, startup, etcetera. Yet we're big enough now to understand maybe real world concerns, business acumen, margin management. It seems like the last thing we talk about nowadays is food and wine. It's more HR and Department of Labor and paperwork and health insurance and stuff. But we definitely still believe in the romance and artistry of the craft of food and wine. I think at the end of day, the goal is human connection. It's hopefully disguised as superior food and drink. There's been a need for third places forever. Ours just ends up in food and beverage world. But the idea of a culinary school immediately got us super excited. We chatted about it when Amy sent a note. I think the quick gut reaction is the pipeline to cooks and the pipeline to cooks that are coming to the industry intentionally. The restaurant industry is beautiful for the fact that it's a catch all for everyone. We definitely find the lost, the broken, the houseless, you name it, can fall into the restaurant industry and on day one can have a $45,000 a year job and the right ownership or leadership can lay out a career path for you to a middle class lifestyle without any education or certification. But I do think we've gotten really good at creating a mentorship program. I think some of my favorite restaurants in the state have people that have come out of our organization are either owning or running them, which is super gratifying. But we could use the help. We spend most of our time in the world of Indeed. It's moved from Craigslist to Indeed, which is extremely expensive. Managing Indeed is a job in itself to not pay the fees as much for all the interactions. So getting off of the immediate pipeline, well, that would be outstanding. I think what got us most excited about the idea of the prospects of a culinary school, obviously there's endless economic development and for people smarter than us to discuss and lay on the table. But I think the idea of maybe there's some white space in the world of education that doesn't really exist. And it's not just a trade school. It's not just a sustainability program nor is it a business acumen, hotel restaurant management. It's sort of the coming together of the three in a best case scenario done in the vein with Vermont values, which doesn't really exist anywhere. There's trade schools everywhere. There's obviously hotel restaurant management programs everywhere. And then there was more specific pinpointed sustainability programs. But what an opportunity to put the Venn diagram of who crosses over in that facility from the small cheese maker to an independent hotel restaurant group out of Burlington sitting at the table together with a group like heirloom Hospitality, us in the middle. That just sounds like that doesn't exist in this country. The education, I went to culinary school, extremely lackluster. I moved here after my internship. My first job was at Shelburne Farms, which I rolled up on the Shelburne Farms on like an August day. And my interview was around a pear tree in front of us. I was here. It was pretty easy. But I think that idea that there isn't a space like that, that brings system, our small businesses, the idea of building it ourselves, I think is what's most appealing to a lot of Vermonters. But maybe thinking a little bit bigger, getting out of our own way a little bit, project that's a little bit of imagining more of a hula meets the hospitality industry, something like that just doesn't exist. So then zooming out even farther, the idea that this would really be the heartbeat, the nucleus of the entire hospitality industry from business acumen training, basic accounting 101, margin management, etcetera, HR, legal leadership, legal understanding. The craft of cooking is the easy part. You can teach anyone how to cook, but it's the rest. It's the softer skills that I think are much more challenging and then the harder business acumen skills that you just don't get coming up in the restaurant business. You have to learn that through hopefully a mentor and someone who takes a moment with you to understand the P and L, understand how business lending works, run down the list of things that have taken us twenty years, but now we can provide our own pipeline. But that was really the most exciting. It's build ours from the inside out of Vermont as opposed to a bigger organization coming here and starting that. Similar to independent hotel groups in Burlington versus some enormous real estate investment trust that comes in and buys a bunch of hotels. It's a completely different animal. And then this center for all things hospitality management, cooking from the cheese maker to the hotel restaurant group. What an amazing outlet. The amount of career pathways, conferences, food festivals, obviously job fairs, all the basic skills that you would enter the market with. And then the Connecticut Vermont is still so small, yet we punch well above our weight class. Amount of career options that would be presented to you that provide a true road to a middle class lifestyle, if not higher, depending on what you're interested in. I think it seems like obviously endless studies, I'm sure. I can't imagine. I would love to be involved in anything it was possible to discuss. Anyone can reach out to me. But I think it was very exciting, the prospect of that type of growth in our little state, that type of organization. And really quick before I wrap up, I can't shake the hula imagery. The tech world gets all of that fancy, pretty stuff. The hospitality industry really deserves the professionalism. It deserves the support for what it brings to the state. While it's beautiful that we can be a catch all for a lot of people, having a professional organization that sends people on a path with proper mentorship, a pathway to a real career, is at a whole different level that at Johnson and Wales, Culinary Institute of America just do not provide. I'm one of those people. So, quick spiel, I'm happy to answer questions when this is over. I just wanted to offer my support. And I think you would see a lot of the industry feel really good about a place that's a center hub for all of these things. It's not just the trade, it's not just sustainability, and it's not just the business acumen of higher ed, but a place where all those come together. I can't imagine a culinary student coming to our organization with a little bit of all those things. It doesn't need to be full culinary. You come with all of that stuff and we will create a career for you overnight. So thank you for letting me talk. Thank you for having me here. Appreciate it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Thank you very much. Steve, Steve Wright is back. So we're gonna, Steve, we welcome you back, and we will pick up where we left off.

[Steve Wright (President & GM, Jay Peak; Chair, Ski Vermont Board of Directors)]: Thank you. I apologize for that. I'm not sure where I fell apart on you, but I'll start at the snow. So so we, we we missed our Canadians by about 30%. We made up the difference on The US side. A lot of that had to do with, with the Western part of the country not getting any snow. So many of the eastern skiers, who generally travel out west for a vacation stayed east. That was a huge piece of a win, not only for for JPeak, but all of our Vermont, brother and sister resorts, that eastern skiers and snowboarders stayed east rather than traveling west for a vacation. And I think you'll probably see that reflected in our numbers, once Vermont reports. You know, at the end of the season. We've got a couple of resorts still going here in Vermont, and we probably will for the next couple of few weeks. And you know, although JPEG is known obviously for snowfall, we obviously can't count on that to continue to happen again certainly next year. It's one of the reasons that why supportive policies from the legislature are always really important for the tourism sector and and tourism sector businesses. You know, we appreciate the focus on housing, on workforce dev, and strengthening career tech education, growing our workforce by training and upskilling employees, and having adequate housing supply is critical for our businesses as well as the economy. And we're concerned about the cost and availability of health care. I'm the co chair of our local North Country Hospital, and I also, you know, negotiate health care coverage for about 1,500 employees here, and I gotta tell you that it's it's one of the most, if not the most challenging, part of of running a business, in the state of Vermont. You know, I see it firsthand from the health care side, at the hospital, and from the negotiating table on this side of business trying to get coverage. You know, also cognizant of the fact of providing quality education for our kids, and also at the same time being concerned about the affordability of property taxes through the dual ends of our businesses and the effects on our workforce. And what else do we have? Bal balancing data privacy policy, also very important. Vermonters, you know, need to have access and and control over their data and be able to make choices, you know, at the same time allowing Vermont businesses to remain competitive. It's it's critical for for our businesses and for the, for the state's economy. And and as I was saying before, outdoor rec is is a key subset of of of Vermont's tourism sector. Obviously, the the prerequisite for that for a for a robust outdoor rec economy is a healthy environment, and having the capacity to to support and and promote outdoor rec while protecting the environment is is paramount. And and regulation and permitting is the way that we balance housing and economic dev with that healthy environment. The balance really is the key. We need both. It's necessary, you know, that balance yet. In a recent survey of businesses by the Vermont Futures Project, regulation and permitting was cited as one of the top five business challenges, along with workforce taxes and fees, like I was saying before, housing and health care. Our regulatory and permitting system doesn't currently support, you know, a super efficient review of housing and economic dev projects, and it causes longer approval timelines, then it drives up costs. The process, you know, should help developers and businesses advance their projects while at the same time protecting the environment, and and it needs to be streamlined. It needs to be efficient and, you know, consistent, accountable, and predictable. So streamline the process to allow for concurrent review between, between Act two fifty and ANR permits, with Act two fifty being conditional on getting the necessary technical permits, that's going to enhance those efficiencies. And the Act two fifty review should be consistently applied across the state. So, you know, promoting that certainty with clear expectations and timelines to minimize delays as they go through the process. The regulators should be adequately resourced to allow for timely reviews and communication with the applicants. Building the permitting workforce through third parties probably should be considered as well. The process should have clear timelines and utilize technology to enhance the transparency and accountability, and applicants and the public should easily be able to to track the process as they go and progress as they go forward through it. And and finally, the appeals should be on record versus, requiring parties to start over in the de novo process. The opportunity cost of inefficient permitting hurts the economy and the ability to fund programs and services. On the other hand, if the process is efficient and consistent, objective, well resourced, the process can bring opportunities. More housing development allows for workforce growth and better affordability. Businesses remain competitive and thriving and can support and create more jobs. And ultimately, more businesses and a larger tax base generate more tax revenue, which means more resources for government services, more programs, and ultimately a healthy environment. So I appreciate the opportunity to talk and to testify this morning. I'm happy to answer any questions as they relate to the business here or the business this past season or the snowfall that we've got.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Thank you, Steve. We're gonna do questions at the end. We have one more witness to hear from, and then we'll open it up to questions. Ted Lawson, you are on deck. Welcome. Thank you. Hi,

[Ted Lawson (ECHO, Leahy Center for Lake Champlain)]: everyone. I'm Ted Lawson from ECHO Ladies Center for Blake Champlain. Thank you for giving me the time to speak before you all today. Let's see. I'm coming here from the sort of cultural institution, museum, nonprofit lens, but an important our cultural institutions, our museums, and attractions are an important part of the remote tourism economy. You know, we wanna attract visitors to the state who wanna be here for multiple day stays, who have a diverse range of must do activities. And that's where museums really play a vital role in the tourism in the state. Museums like Echo serve as anchor attractions. We know that 67% of leisure travelers want to visit cultural institutions on their travels. And we know that's the demographic of visitors to the state that we want to attract, because they tend to spend money beyond the museums that they're visiting and lift up the economies around museums. Museums are weather and season independent, which is really important for Vermont and becoming more and more important as the climate and weather becomes more unpredictable. Echo's open three fifty five days a year and serves all ages. So I think the Vermont Tourism Visitor Survey from last summer reported that the typical Vermont visitor stayed for five days. And last summer, we actually had many stretches of five days of fantastic weather, but typically, you're rolling the dice a bit when you come for five days to Vermont, and so being able to have options that are weatherproof is super important to the visitor economy. Museums and cultural institutions also offer an opportunity to really celebrate the Vermont brand in different ways. And at Echo, we have the wonderful privilege of being right now on the shores of one of the true jewels of this state, which is Lake Champlain. And so we do what we can to tell the stories about the lake, both above and below. And I wanted to share with you all our recent renovation. We cut the ribbon on our Into the Lake exhibit this past summer, our biggest renovation ever, welcoming tourists and visitors under the lake to meet the iconic species that live in Lake Champlain. So this is our new lake tank. We're the only public aquarium in the state. This is the largest aquarium tank in the state, 15,000 gallons. It has eight different species of native native species from Lake Champlain in it. It's a very engaging space, as you can see, offering visitors an opportunity to really engage up close and personal with some iconic species from Lake Champlain. Those sturgeon, are five feet long. They were six inches when Echo opened its doors in 2003. And so I've seen 4,000,000 people visit them over the course of their time in our tanks. The guests on the left here are learning about the American eel. American eels are native eel species in Lake Champlain. They spend 90% of their life in Lake Champlain, but they're born 500 miles Southeast of Bermuda in the Sargasso Sea. And at the end of their life cycle, they will swim back to the Sargasso Sea to lay their eggs. So a really cool ecological story connecting our small state with the vast Atlantic Ocean. And a neat story to tell, visitors and Vermonters alike. On the right, these visitors are exploring through an interactive touch screen the world of plankton, the smallest critters, but the real foundation of the food web and the apology and all of the life forms that live in our lakes. Another recent exhibit telling an important Vermont story that we opened this past year is Champ, America's Lake Monster exhibit. We have a 30 foot model of Champ and three floors of interactive exhibits telling the legend through art, through history, and through guests observing scientific data and discovering for themselves whether or not they believe the data suggests a sea monster of this size could be living under Lake Champlain. Fun fact for us to tell is in the 1800s, early 1800s, Champ was more well known around the world than the Loch Ness Monster. But they did far better destination marketing for a couple hundred years, But playing catch the Champ legend is really a fun one. We have developed some digital assets with a grant from Vermont Tourism to really celebrate this legend and pull people into the museum and learn about the history and ask that big question, Could Champ exist?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Do people get to vote on it?

[Ted Lawson (ECHO, Leahy Center for Lake Champlain)]: We get a lot of comment cards on it, for sure. This is an interactive exhibit related to Champ. Guests can draw their own Champ and then send it into the lake on the digital screen here. Highly popular. Champ on the left, a timeline of Champ, history that dates back to well before colonialism. And then on the right, you can see Champ over the shoulder of Senator Leahy and Marcel, viewed from the 3rd Floor. So a pretty exciting new exhibit. We also have a traveling exhibit hall, which allows us to bring nationally acclaimed interactive exhibits to the museum from all over the country. Three times a year, we completely introduce an entire new exhibit to the space, again, trying to keep our offerings fresh and fun. We've got dinosaurs in there right now, which are always a crowd pleaser. And we've got Eric Carle, The Very Hungry Caterpillar, coming in September. The last point I wanted to make is that when museums and cultural institutions prosper, so do the Vermont communities that they exist in. ECHO invests tourist dollars in access and outreach for Vermonters. So when we're successful at pulling tourists in and having them spend their dollars with us, it gives us a greater pool of money to support Vermonters. One out of every three Vermonters comes to Echo for free through our Open Door Access Program. And we have STEM outreach programs throughout most of the Northern half of the state, where we serve 10,000 students a year through taking the museum to rural school gymnasiums and our STEM outreach truck, through a teacher institute, through early childhood classroom programs. And so when we do a good job attracting folks from out of state, spending their dollars at institutions like ECHO, Vermont PROSPERS. And so I'll leave you with that. Hope you all have an opportunity to come down to the waterfront soon and enjoy Creamy and visit us at ECHO. Thank you so much.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Thank you very much.

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: We can open it up for questions, Noah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Members?

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: Question?

[Unidentified committee/staff member]: I have a

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: question for Brett. Brett, how many years have you given yourself to break even?

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: I mean,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: on your strategy. I love your enthusiasm, very exciting. But I'm just curious in your business plan, how long have you given yourselves to actually start making money?

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: We profit at year one. That's the nice part about these SBA loans. If you're able to finance a lot of this long term, it's us running around. We profited right away. There wasn't a long breakeven point that we had to get to.

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: That's true.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: All right. I should keep harassing, Michael. Oh, Michael, sorry.

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: I mean, I was

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: just going ask a bunch of questions about Champ, but I'm not

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: sure it was. I think you need to go and vote on whether Champ is. He's real. This

[Representative Michael Marcotte (Chair, House Committee on Commerce and Economic Development)]: is a switch on.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Yeah. Maybe.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: This is a question for Brett. In starting your business, could you tell us what was the most significant regulatory hurdle that you found, and tell me how or if you dealt with it.

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: There there were not a lot of regulations that we had to go through per se. I think part of the advantage was we did purchase an operating asset, which fortunately, I think represents a lot of the other properties, like the one we bought in state. There's very few that are closed down right now. I think that's what you hear about the big regulatory jumps having to go through. Again, the number one challenge that we face in our project, I'd say, goes to regulations, is those code improvement requirements and figuring out how to tackle those big costly items of improvement that don't necessarily lead to any more revenue for the property. So for us, it was just getting really scrappy with credit cards and the other revolving lines of financing that were out there. But again, that coming up with how to, again, it's you can paint walls, you can do cosmetic outfits to make a property produce more, but it is meeting the code compliance, that Division of Fire Safety and Health and Safety officers. I know for a lot of other people, it's ADA compliance and things like that. That upfit covering those costs, again, it doesn't make any more revenue for the business, so it's really hard to make that happen.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Same question for others. Randy says he'd just like to ask the same question for others, for anyone else who has just recently gone through a renovation or an update. Does anyone else have that? Sorry. You can just ask. Think they

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: can hear us. I'm interested in whether or not any of you found regulatory hurdles that you found difficult, in your business, both in terms of building the business and in terms of operating it today, that you find are hurdles that you think the legislature ought to attempt to address to see that it's done better. Time, for example, is one of the things that I hear from others, and I'd like to hear your experience is, do you find that things take too long to get done in Vermont's regulatory environment, and what should we focus on to deal with it?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Introduce yourself and hear your

[Ryan Donnelly (Owner, The Warren Lodge)]: My name is Ryan Donnelly. I'm a hustle to ride in Corn. I purchased my building six years ago, the fire marshal came in and they wrote a report, and then I made a change to, after talking to the local people in Warren, I made a change to the building that the fire marshal came back. My first report was two pages, when the fire marshal came back six years later, it was eight pages. They also told me I had removed all my beds out of my building, which essentially would have shut me down. So I had to work through that and we are working through it right now and Mike Garoche is in the Iron Marshal's office doing a great job working with Manor World, say that. But it was a huge surprise and a huge cost that I didn't have budgeted, that I had to like all of a sudden make come forward. So I think sometimes it surprises and I also think sometimes in how the reports are written. Like it took several months from the time the fire marshal came to the time I actually got in some written report. So I think we need to try to figure out a way to make that time frame smaller to make it so

[Brett McManus (Owner, The Oura/Opera Inn, Killington; formerly Happy Bear Motel)]: that we can get the

[Ryan Donnelly (Owner, The Warren Lodge)]: information we need is what I'm really, that's what I like to see and also like when people write reports, say like these are the things that need to be accomplished within the next twenty four months, and then these are things that can be accomplished later on like five years down the road, But we need to work towards goals to make it. Because a lot of us have buildings that were built in the 1800s and none of us can go out and afford $100,000 sprinkler system. Because I would love to put one in and I just can't afford to do it. I don't generate that kind of revenue and then I can't find the resources to help me finance that. So we need money and time to

[Unidentified participant (multiple attributions under this ID)]: be

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: able And consistency. It also sounds like consistency. So yeah, Thanks. I think Thomas has a question.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden]: Sure, ask a question. And

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: then there's Do you have another response to that back there? I'll stand up and just Yeah.

[Melanie Bowes]: My name is Melanie Bowes and I own Crabberg Factory Club, which has been in existence since 1914. Again, very old building. I wanted to do some improvements and additions to growing business. Because we are on well water, I was told I had to put a 30,000 gallon test tank into the ground in order to have a sprinkler system and be allowed to do any expansions. I would think a generator would make sense for the fifteen minutes it would take for the fire engines to get to my business along with the 60 plus windows and doors that are in the building. But we had to put that on, you know, we can't do anything because the first thing I have to do is put a 30,000 gallon tank in the ground. And six years ago, it was a $70,000 diesel pump for that. So

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: we're working with what we have. Well, thank Thomas.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden]: Eric made a pretty outrageous claim saying that you could teach anybody to cook. I could have you over to dinner and

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: prove that

[Senator Thomas Chittenden]: that it's been impossible for me. But I'd be curious if others might reflect on the need, for a culinary institute and how that could help you help the industry train and get more prepared chefs and cooks across the state. I just remember growing up in Vermont with the New England Culinary Institute locations in Burlington at National Life, and it seemed like it was a really strong program that I'd love to see come back. Is there others that are oh, I see a hand. I'm curious of your thoughts.

[Unidentified committee/staff member]: I can't speak to identify yourself, folks. Hi, I'm Lee. I'm Lee Saport. I live in Guildford, Vermont outside of Brattleboro, and I'm so excited about this idea. I have been dreaming about a culinary school in Brattleboro because we have some empty restaurant and we have CCB, which I think could be a really good partner and we need young people.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: We

[Unidentified committee/staff member]: had Marlboro College shut down a while back and that has really decreased the number of young people. I know that there's a big goal for this state and for our community to bring in more 20 year olds, more young adults who want to stay here and make a living. And I also know that there are a lot, I know people who own restaurants and that there is a staffing shortage. And so please think of Brattleboro and because Burlington has a lot of young people already and we need to see young people beget young people. So bring them in.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: Thank you. Jonathan. Jonathan. Then

[Ted Lawson (ECHO, Leahy Center for Lake Champlain)]: My question was also directed to those in the culinary field. Have you found any utilization of CTE centers as a pipeline for employees or people that are getting into the fields? We have a culinary program at Southwest Tech in Bennington, they operate a restaurant within the school grounds. I'm just curious if that has been a resource for anyone operating in food industry.

[Eric Warnstedt (Restaurateur)]: We've got a few, I don't know where they're all going though, but we've had a couple, but not as many because I know there's a handful of them in the state, but they must be ending up maybe more like larger Sodexo type organizations for some trend, But we see a couple for sure. I think a really quick point you mentioned NEPI, I think at the time the audio tier at 99, while we had a lot of great stuff happening here, I think at this point today we do compete on the national stage and I think there'd be more opportunity for a graduate to stay here feeling like he did or he should gain the knowledge, the skills from mentors where before the idea was probably be go to a city, take your pick, if you really want to learn culinary stuff, the place you probably leave the state more so. Were always surprised how few nappy people we had, we had them of course, but it wasn't like an enormous dump of kids every year. They seem to be leaving the state going for culinary foodie places.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: So thank you for this because this feeds into the task force that we hope will look at all aspects of reestablishing a culinary institute and culinary apprenticeships and possibly phasing it in, working with our CTE centers, but it's a great opportunity for us and one we're pretty excited about. I just wanted to also mention that we are working on the resources. We have heard loud and clear that not enough businesses that are starting out appreciate all the resources we have. We also need to identify the resources we don't have. And so Lyle Jepsen, our new commissioner of the Department of Economic Development, we hope is gonna be convening that work and doing that work during the course of this summer and fall. So I think, Molly, did you have a question?

[Unidentified participant (multiple attributions under this ID)]: Really quickly, on our senior model, we regularly hear

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair, Senate Committee on Economic Development, Housing and General Affairs)]: from our senior members that they are looking for culinary staff as well. So we definitely feel that we have have- Yeah, from a workforce development and a food and a farm to plant and all of our specialty foods, it makes lots of sense. And I think you're right, we're in a different place. Thank you all. This was just terrific. We hope you have a great day. Thank you so much for all that you do for this state and for our economy. It's great to see you, and we hope we'll see you during the course of the day here. Thank you very much. But we have to go back to the place now. Thank you very much.