Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Five, we have two amendments that we need to address, and we are live welcome welcome everyone to Senate Economic Development Housing and General Affairs. It is when it's Thursday, very symmetrical, twenty six, March two thousand twenty six. We welcome you. We are looking this morning, we're beginning with looking at amendments to S328, our housing bill. And we have two that we know of this morning, and we're gonna be hearing from Senator Watson and Senator Richland. And so, and JJ Reyes. Yeah, sure. Good morning. David will be with us. Elkhart is going a little late this morning. Okay.

[Senator Anne Watson]: You have the amendments, three twenty eight. We have that, we have the first ones, and we have lots right inside. That's okay. Just so you know, the version that you may have was only signed by Senator Hardy and I, but the latest version, draft 3.2, is signed by all of the members of the Natural Resources and Energy Committee. So, this amendment does three things. I'm gonna work backwards, just for simplicity's sake. The second instance of amendment, which is on page three, adding a report on farm worker housing. This is something that we have had some discussion about in natural resources, and it seemed like it might be fitting for this bill. Wild Housing and Conservation Board did a report that was issued in 2021, and a lot has happened since then, and we would love to get an update to that report to help inform our conversations moving forward. We had the HCV in, and they actually suggested this language. So they were very fine with that.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So that's probably the

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: simplest That's that's great. I think that's an issue for all of our Yes. And and also for the agriculture committee. Yes. So I'm a little anyway, here we are. Okay. I think, sadly, we still need to do masses of of work on on worker housing. Mhmm.

[Senator Anne Watson]: So the going back now to the first instance of that, first thing that this does has to do with the portion where you all amended it to try to define what is an area served by water and sewer. Appreciating that it was lacking clarity and needed some definition. So we actually had some testimony on this as well in Natural Resources, and would recommend that instead of defining a distance, I'll explain why in a minute, there are really two tests here. There are two ways that it is defined. There's Roman at I, and there's Roman at I I. And so it is the first one that is sort of, I guess I would say, like a default. And the second one is it's an area established by a municipality by Rohitzer bylaw at seven seventy. And so we actually took a significant amount of testimony from municipalities and regulators in the water and wastewater permitting world because of our other bill about a water and wastewater permit connections. And they, it is really the municipalities that know what their system can handle. They know where the areas are. We heard from BLCT on this amendment, particularly, that most municipalities have been through the process of defining what their area is, so there's not a huge need for a default anyway. And we had a lot of hesitation around setting a specific distance, because if, so we considered, should it be 300 feet, should it be 2,000 feet? And even if it's 300 feet, it could be 300 feet into the next town. It could be a situation where the line of the road is asymmetrical in the sense that

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: one side of the road is a

[Senator Anne Watson]: great opportunity to build, the other side of the road is a cliff or something like that. So it becomes, again, just very specific to the town. One of the things we learned And the land. And the land, yes. And so one of the things that we learned from the municipalities was that every town is different, every wastewater system is different, but they know their systems. So, we felt like it would, if, we heard from BLCC that if there was a defined distance, would be triggering for the municipalities to try to go through their ordinance making process again, they were

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: like, please don't make us do this again.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Especially if it is going beyond, but they know their system can handle. So, if the goal is clarity, let's just be clear, the municipality has to define it. Done. And also, just try to Two goals. Sure. And also Billboard housing. Exactly. And fair enough. Well and actually, in that paper

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Well, that's and

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: then as a third goal is, of course, not only Billboard housing, clarity, and taking advantage of where we have water and sewer, even onto their capacity. I mean, obviously, we have to be cognizant of their capacity.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Absolutely. And I think it's also fair to say that, like, if if you were going downhill, let's say, so the capacity was maybe not so much of

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: an issue, it could be

[Senator Anne Watson]: 3,000 feet. It could be whatever they determine is appropriate for that area. But also, we're not trying to be well skilled on pelvic. Right. And so these, The 30 of

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: them now, you mean, wants to say it. Yeah, right. I like that. I think we're all

[Senator Anne Watson]: roughly hope plans. I like the vaso. So the third thing that this does, it's a it's a very simple change. It's on page two because In Romanette three? In Romanette

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: because you talked about Romanette one and two. The two tests. Yes.

[Senator Anne Watson]: It is actually in Roman Ed two. It's just at the top of the page. Because it's in Or fire district, you're asking. Right, because we're adding or a fire district. Right. And the reason is because this is about areas served by municipal sewer and water infrastructure. There are places, So, usually in this context, municipal literally just means like a town or a city. But, in the context of water infrastructure, there are types of water and wastewater systems that are not owned by the town or the city. They're owned by, well, they're run by a fire district, which is still a public entity. And we learned that the only, there's more that I can say about this, the only public, so, public water is a broader umbrella than municipal

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: water. It can be.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Oh no, it's definitely Definitely. Definitely. Yes. Well, because public water includes fire districts, it includes co ops, it includes private, because public is a reference to who it serves. If you serve 25 or more people, it is a public watch, regardless of the ownership. And so we did hear that there are some fire districts that offer both water and sewer, And right now, they are feeling excluded from this provision for quadratic. And so, I wanted to make sure that areas that are served by fire districts and not municipalities are included here. Now, technically speaking, a fire district is a kind of municipality in the very legal sense, but it's unclear that they were actually identified here. So, we want to make sure that they know their interpretation. That is what this bill what this amendment does. Thank you.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And we appreciate actually, the time that you took upon it because, as you may or may not know, this was a little Yeah. This was a piece that we had an objective for Mhmm. But didn't actually have specific language or hadn't threaded that flail needle yet until the end. So I'll say I'll say this.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: The whole effort to have this conversation was to underscore our intent when we put this in Right. Originally. Because there are live conversations and, you know, litigious conversations about what we mean by served by me at the saltwater and sewer. And I will just say over and over again, the intent is that wherever you would allow a single family cult hook up, you would be based on capacity also allowing a a quadplex hook up. And I don't I don't know that what I tried to write satisfied that. I don't know that well satisfied that, but I'd like to make sure our committees are clear on the intent. Because what happens is, say you have a a lot that's five acres you'd be putting five single family homes and someone who set decides to do five quadplexes. People people are like, that's 20 units. And I know that and I support that. Yeah. Because we probably need 20 units of housing where there would usually be five single family homes. Right. That's much more affordable that that helps a very different part of the market. If we're if we're all agreed, I know we have the rest of the session to get through, I do plan to to take that back to the community that's even, you know Go. Where people are raising concerns about.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Right. Yeah. So just man, just before, Thomas, we go to you, I would I if it's appropriate, and, Ellen, there might be an intense sentence we could add in if we felt like it, to clarify the intent of this section, which is maybe understood by which is

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Ellen doesn't look super enthusiastic. No.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: This I would hope we could make it fairly simple on a a single sentence of what our objective is caused.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So my concern is this amendment would strike this out, which if I read that in the context because that's current law. Those are there. That that's what gives some of that vibrate aspect that if there's an area where resident expansions are available to municipal water and direct and direct discharge water systems and not prohibited by, that they would be considered served by the municipal server. If we strike all that, it seems like we are now just entirely Mhmm. Just the municipality. We don't see that. Not given an individual right to at some stents in the statue to be able to build a house there. And that's a concern I have because in the city of South Burlington, I sometimes think local influences on volunteer boards and subdue housing where it really does make the most sense just because there are people that don't want it in their backyards. So I have hesitations on stripping this out because it seems to actually open up an important aspect of Oh, it's a combined people a right to build to connect to wastewater systems. So now if we take that away, it's entirely empowering the municipality and not a split. Am I am I not reading this correctly?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I think let's refer to our legislative council. Oh, I agree. So I think Yeah. I gotta cancel.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I I, for one, don't support removing that bucket.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: But What? And your intent was to remove that?

[Senator Anne Watson]: Well, no. I mean, I'm appreciating the the intent here about, like, keeping this scenario where residential connections, expansions are available because that's Mhmm. That is sort of like that is sort of like our intent right there. It's I maybe the the issue that is bubbling up is because it's it's acting sort of like these two different pieces, but

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: in my mind, it's sort of

[Senator Anne Watson]: one thing. Mhmm. And so, I guess I'm wondering about the or, you know? But at the end,

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: like, it's this or it's that. What okay. What if what if we took out Rome like, the capital Roman?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Roman ad? It's not a Roman ad. It's a it's a one.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It's a one two three. Okay. Yeah. What if we took out state regulations or permits? Because the whole effort from from it going from this committee for to your look at it in natural resources is to create harmony between what we're asking municipalities to do and what we're committing to do in Act 181. So, I guess I wouldn't want someone to be able to jump over and say, you know, it's not prohibited. It's it's prohibited by state regulations or permits. We shouldn't have incongruency between what's allowed under state regulation.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I think the current language addresses that. So it's written in entirety. It says and not prohibited by those things.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Right. But why I don't think we should have areas where our regulations or permits prohibit Oh, just a these wastewater systems. We're trying to harmonize wastewater so that we're giving more power to the community.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: The whole objective in any way

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: is not say, oh, by the way, you could also go to the state and argue that you can't get this connection.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So just removing room for the onshore?

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: That that then is the actual intent of it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Could we have our lunch council weigh in, would that actually accomplish the goal we're talking about?

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah, that's a bit of, this is an outside of the box thought that our old my ultimate goal is that we not have incongruent state regulations and permits for what the municipality is saying there. I

[Senator Anne Watson]: if if if so my hope would be to not have a distance that's unbearably or Prescribe.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Your objective is to have it.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Yeah. I don't want it to be prescriptive like that. And I think I need to wrap my head around the state regulation requirements. And I'm also I I realized I'm speaking really for myself right now, not the natural resources community. This is what I end

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: up doing all of it. And so, you know, as

[Senator Anne Watson]: I'm just talking here, I'm trying to problem solve.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: No. No. That's what it's called. We have Ellen here as well.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I would I know. I know because, yeah, we we agree. We don't we could take the feet out. Yeah.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: You take the feet out. I'm more comfortable, but I'm not comfortable with striking that entire section. That's why my read of it is this is the time I've really felt it. Sure.

[Senator Anne Watson]: And if I Thank you. Articulate again with what if we wrote if we remove state regulations or permits, it is not prohibited by them.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: This to me is an important asset in current law that really empowers that area served by municipal serve a sewer and water infrastructure that that should have some ability to connect there.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Which is what the

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: objective defined by the municipality Right. Yeah. Instead a a right.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: To Yeah. Think we're all trying to agree.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Yeah. We're all trying to agree. Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We have the same objective.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Because the the thing I'm very sensitive to is not continuing to tell municipalities what they can or cannot do while adding additional layers from the state that aren't harmonized with that. Sure. And I personally very much appreciate that natural resources took another step to giving wastewater oh, wastewater control to communities that are ready to to accept that. And I I just wouldn't want naysayers to have two bites at the apple here to say to keep going back and forth between the duplicate municipal and state permits and regulations and keep denying people multifamily housing?

[Senator Anne Watson]: So I'm just gonna speak for myself Mhmm. Because I can't speak for all the press and post in the senate. My sense right now is that I would be fine with that.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Leaving that blurb.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Leaving the section in.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: And just drops.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Striking straight. Yeah. They Roman. Bring the light of Kermit.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Yes. Roman one. Rome Romanettes are

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: the big key ones. Rome's are the big

[Senator Anne Watson]: So keeping two and three, but, and then also a bit, like, leaving out the 2,000 theme.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Yes. Okay. No. I think accepting the rest of your Mhmm. Rest of your language is Okay. Great. Okay. Yeah. Great. Okay. Now I'll answer. Does that accomplish what work? Okay. I'm having a drug bug. How an answer is it? She's so careful.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Can I just raise one more thing that is an ongoing question for me? This is about the Farm Bureau Housing report, actually. This this comes up a lot, at least in our district, where I worry that there's this this kind of growing this this bias about what we mean by a farmer or a

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: fireworker. Mhmm.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: That on farm housing is really important for everyone.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Yes. So thank you for raising that because we very nearly amended this language. Yeah. To say for farmers and workers, Right.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Like farm housing. Yes. Might be our new term of ours.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Well, mean, to be fair, the name of the study was the farm worker housing needs. Exactly. So there may be some minor Mhmm. To this that I'm you know, I would've laid something out. Also,

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: farm housing. You know? Yeah. Like, I just Mhmm.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Why don't you just say on farm

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: If we're already messing with it

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: We say we're changing this to Mhmm. On farm housing. Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Don't describe the I think that's great. I'm I'm running into

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: this everywhere. People wanna put a little something Yeah. On a plot, you know. On their on their On their land. Maybe, you know, maybe they they don't own the land. I mean, we're running into that with current use and large parcels.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, yeah, many of our markets survive because they're able to lease land from second homeowners.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: And they need and and frankly, the only way to make farming work still is to put some little house on there, and often it's a trailer,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: but that's How not about how about just adding farm worker or on farm housing? Should say

[Senator Anne Watson]: I'm game for whatever. So I'm keep this here.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Should we do that from the moment? The house, you're gonna have plenty of time.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Right. We say on farm business, so I'd like to just say on farm housing.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, that's what I just suggested. Okay. But not

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: but take farm worker

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: out. Okay. Get rid of farm worker and just say, describe the, on farm housing program.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I personally like us, and it's not my place, it might be an agriculture conversation, but I was not the farm worker, you know, task I think we're making, for for many industries, we're making too big of a separation between the idea of who's a farmer and who's a farm worker.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I have a separate question. I have a different question. So let's just add that and then we can look if the house needs to do a better job of that that we can do that. David do you have a thought?

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: I do have a thought.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yes I can see.

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: I'm not necessarily good farmer or workers and I apologize I'm not typically one that's Dan on the list and this is really don't consider this an ambush, but all the players are in one room at the same time, so I thought take advantage of this opportunity. A pretty small tweak in 01/1981 which is being proposed for tier 1A.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Is it tier 1A?

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: Tier 1A status requirement on the certain criteria you have to satisfy and one is that it includes municipal staff that the that the municipality who is looking to apply for one A has a municipal staff. Yeah, that's good. Well, we're I am proposing that we add five words that it'd be municipal staff, RPC, or contracted capacity. I'm not sure if you're aware of that. Anyway, if we have two, three minutes, talk about it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, we have key players So,

[Senator Anne Watson]: would love to chat with you in the context of natural resources because this is a thing that has come up you loved it. Consider that? We did talk about it. And it's a thing that has been a part of that discussion. So, there's a lot of context that we are bringing to that particular issue. So, we'd love to So, do

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: you wanna steal our committee member for later this morning when you're considering the Yes. Okay. Is that part of

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So it's not a drafted amendment already?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Is that a draft amendment? It's not

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: it's not through legislative council yet, but it's in a language which could be

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Oh, okay.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: If you let have Jude let Pierre know who you need to K. Send the hook down the hall and pull him.

[Senator Anne Watson]: This is kind of a complicated morning. We'll try. Mhmm. Right. Okay. Okay.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. So I'd like to finish up because Annie has an amendment as well. Okay. I I'm sensing. I need to miss Counselor. I miss where you're about the farm worker. Okay. Farm and farm housing. My proposal before you wrap up. My proposal was just simply on line cripple and say the update shall describe the on farm housing program established by the board. Okay. And and the house can change the title of that. Okay. But I think that the house has massive well, it's not there. The house has more time than we do. How about that? Is that okay? So with that, I sorry.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Hey. My question was just logistics of how to move forward because we had this amendment. It's in the calendar. So And I'm happy to, you all are gonna offer this as an amendment, I'm just not, offer this, or I could offer it and have it With the attitude.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Why don't you offer draft one, three Three point two, Three.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Here's my here's my question on this. Wasn't it your whole committee at one point? Yes.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Is. It is now. Now. Okay.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Because Don't look at the behavior. It says three nineteen. Yeah. A lot

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: of people So now it's

[Senator Anne Watson]: the whole committee. It's the whole Now it's

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: the whole committee. Okay. I think it's

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: We could offer a substitute amendment too.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: We could. I think it's Okay. Best if it's if it's the whole natural resources committee offering a substitute. So Oh, but we could.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. I I would encourage us to keep it with you or with the whole committee and and take our changes, which are pretty modest, back to your committee and have the have you guys sign on and just do a substitute amendment.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Do you know that you don't have time for that? I have a break. Then let's do it. I think you see that. Doing, like, a substitute as

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I You have too many amendments this morning.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: This always happens with these bills.

[Senator Anne Watson]: Is not what it looks like unusual. Work together. Okay. I can tell about it, and I I I'm seeing all of this discussion as friendly.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So they Okay. So they want instead. So we'll figure out how we do that on the floor. Yeah. Because I would suggest we just you defer to the amendment and I district committee's

[Senator Anne Watson]: am happy to if it's useful, talk about the fire district part. I'm happy to talk about the farm worker report farm worker I housing I could even do a little preface of Exactly. A little bit of eye. Yeah. I mean, happy to say, there's a board language here, we're trying to find a solution and Yeah. Come to your This

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: is gonna be as well up

[Senator Anne Watson]: the street with this thing.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: This is good, and then we'll pick it up from

[Senator Anne Watson]: there. Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Amazing. Okay. Great. Thank you. So Which

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: meeting is on this amendment?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I Our committee well, I'm hoping all of us will be on this on the substitute.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: And I'll be the lead sponsor of it so I can speak to it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Because you're it's your section. Are people okay? Are we are we all okay? Randy, you okay being on this memo?

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yes. So

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: You wanna see the try

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: to understand it quite frankly. I've got one sentence. It's 86 words long.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Because of the Roman Act. Thank

[Senator Anne Watson]: Thank you. And thank you.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Barry Von. Are you all? Yes.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. Andy, come join me.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Mister Butcher kinda rounds me with. Thank

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: you. Your moment has come, so I was hoping you could I'm here. Okay. Great. Welcome, senator. It is a pleasure to have you.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: Thank you, Carrie Clarkson.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And we will not got this amendment unless maybe it. Be. We already had sadly had gotten it. So, Gary, I know you're concerned with No.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: Well, first of all, really appreciate the me putting this in your as introduced all Yeah. Basically my whole bill on this issue into your as introduced bill. I understand there's there's language in there specifically about other parking spaces that do make it complicated, so I do understand why you put it into the study. But I've had discussions with transportation committee chair transportation about taking this issue into the T Bill. And I didn't want to have language about studies, so people are like, Well, why are we doing a T Bill? We're studying it over here. So in the T Bill, the amendment to the house T bill will just be to deal with electric charging stations and their electric charging equipment where the owner installing it on their own building. So only on the limited common here. Right. Right. Where they they have it's it'd be behind their electric meter, so it's clearly on there. So it wouldn't be any different than installing

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And on their electric charge. Yeah.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: So it's not a common electrical Correct. Nothing like on parking lots that's separate. So it's only for people that have their own garage or their own parking space right in front of their unit. So if you're on like a third story of a large condo, this doesn't apply. This is only for those condo units where they're like townhouses or separate houses. Or it's you can be a homeowner's association where there's houses stranded.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And you control the individual controls the current to the garage or to the Yeah.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: So it's all behind the meter. So you're behind the electric meter, so it's here. So I don't see it any different than installing the heat pump hot water heater or electric dryer. It's a pump appliance. I checked with GMP. It's gonna have 15,000 of these that installed have by their customers that are on their special

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So you're waiting. No problem. So don't we still have EV issues to address

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: that are in condominiums with condominiums? Simpler to do it this way. Yeah. You could try and parse that language out about somebody that Okay. But let's somewhere

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: else. Take it up in the miscellaneous t bill. Okay. Tax transportation bill. Yeah. It's not a miscellaneous t bill? No.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: There's a miscellaneous DMV bill, and there's a t bill. So Oh. You kinda

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So which one are you taking up? T bill.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: I just said. Okay. I said the miscellaneous.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Oh, the T bill. Oh, Okay. It is okay. But I think

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: that there is miscellaneous items in the T bill, so I understand why you want

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So on that understanding, I has Michael just left again? Yes. I can go grab him. Okay. No. It's okay. Committee, what are your thoughts?

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: This is fine. Just narrowing scopes, though. It doesn't mess with anything you're gonna do with the TPO.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: That's Well and hopefully, you will come to some resolution on this given some We're out of time.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: Yeah. We've had such a problem today.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: In touch I mean,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I think Cam and Christina should come and chat with you. We have the lawyers. We finally identified a lawyer who's expert in common interest communities, and so it would be great to have her join you. We could have her any. Yeah. And we'll care our consent or context, doctor. That'd be great. Yeah. Would you kind of send it? Great. Dave?

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: Just to avoid confusion on the floor, if senator Berchley would goes through his amendment and say, this is what's in here or what's not in here is the E and E. It it it tends to handle And the

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: if you would speak to your intent in the transportation committee, that would be right.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Presumably, I had one member of the economic bill and housing general affairs have no objection to the t bill taking this on. It seems very transportation Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Exactly. I agree. I agree. We I mean, it was an important issue for housing too, and so that's why we we operated it.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: Yeah. I just didn't wanna wait for you to say, yeah, it was

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: a one issue or having this. Thank you. Always a reminder, there's more than one way to skin it back.

[Senator Andrew Perchlik]: Yes. Right. Okay. Thank you for your time.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Terrific. Andy, thank you very much. I think my general sense of the committee is fine with that. Yes. Great. Yep. Perfect. Great. Okay. Cameron, thank you. I'll be right back. I think we need to be able to thank you. Thank you, Thomas, for that catch. That was great. I had kinda moved beyond page one. So I was wondering, what are you talking about the original language? And then it was back. Thank you. Okay. We're doing well. We're now going to the reason the reason how was LCAR?

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Fortunately. Fortunately. Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Not a

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: good way to start.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I look forward to hearing about it maybe offline. We are taking up the Taiwan resolution because on April 1, the Taiwan militia is gonna be here, and they are hoping to have it presented on the senate floor. So the house has taken it up and is voting it out of their house and commerce committee. And because it's a piece of what we are wanting to always further move, you know, build on this relationship with Taiwan and our economic development opportunities there. I think it's important for us to take this on, but I have no idea where Michael's on.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I can try to go find him.

[Senator Anne Watson]: I told him we need a few extra minutes.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Four. We're working. We're trying to keep it on time here. And so because time is tight this morning. Any other amendments we know of? Nothing. No surprises other than perch like in Watson yeah.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: On this bill I've been talking about three

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: twenty eight why don't you chat about tobacco because we have a couple and we have some cannabis issues too.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So I don't know how much of these hallway conversations happen with each of us by putting it here on the table just paving to save us time tomorrow morning since we have a couple of minutes.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: But We're good. Oh, good point, first. We're gonna meet at 08:30 tomorrow morning because we have too many amendments on cannabis and tobacco. So we have a tobacco amendment by, Pat Rutland.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: We're already planning an amendment related to the, fake IDs. So that I think is in the committee when you were gone.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Which I think is great. This one, have a little more concerns with the one just because

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: He he's got, like, two or three things percolating. There's one that I personally support. The other ones, I I I agree if there's concern. But the one that I think is worth fully betting considering is right now our fee structure would increase on the clerk. So imagine a 16 senator Cummings raised this concern too. You got a 16, 17 year old just working at Hanover's or something and they they accidentally sell cigarettes to a minor. Right now that fee would go up to a thousand task dollars. So if he just wants to keep that at a 100 or make it clear that a a person actually means you you find the the actual retailer, I I think just keeping it at a $100 could see if it's

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Go. I actually have a slightly different take on it. I see that young clerks could be very complicit and involved in helping their friends purchase. And, actually, I think there should be a consequence. Go to David's consequence. I think that clerks are need to be more vigilant, and I think so increasing it a bit of a thousand dollars, I'm happy to consider something smaller, but I think it does need to be a deterrent. Agree. And we have first pass as a warning always. Second pass is has to have a consequence, I think, because we're trying to reduce something that is growing at an alarming rate, which is vaping at, you know, nicotine addiction in young people.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So So that's what it's gonna bring forward.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. And that's so I I I agree with but I also think every clerk who takes on responsibility of selling something that is life threatening is some somebody who needs to be thoughtful about it.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: But to be honest, the slurks are generally making minimum wage in entry level position. Earn a $100 is quite consequential as opposed to a thousand dollars for retailers. So that's why I think it's important.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I don't I don't disagree. I think they have to also bear the consequence of what they of the importance of what they're doing. If

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: we wanna talk consequence, I think that was a hang up in this bill. So that might be a broader discussion for our morning about all the consequences.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: But that's the issue at stake, which is what the fee is for the clerk who sells the sorry, anybody. So process by which the fee is opposed to collect it.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Senator Brennan can speak to that. Yeah. I mean, it's

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: whether the person has to appear somewhere or whether he gets just a note, like a bill in the mail. Oh. That's the consequences. It's having to appear and having to be publicly shamed of having to pay the $100 fine or the $5 Wouldn't

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: that be

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: a ton of law? Yeah. Yeah. That's incorrect.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. That's what I meant.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Let's let's switch gears. We our time is short. Back up. Why don't you come join us? Senator White. Yes. I love how

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: you keep calling cashier's clerks. As a former cashier myself, I love that. Yeah. Sixteen o five an hour, Alison. Sixteen o five an hour, and I was like,

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I He could have done something about that.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: How much how many hours would a thousand dollars cost me? Okay. So I'm here talking about

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Senator White, we're going to pivot to Taiwan. And you and I feel wrong about this, Amanda, this and we in case you weren't here, but the delegation, the Taiwan delegation is coming next week. Okay. We're gonna She signed up. Just Yeah. To read to read it and celebrate our relationship.

[Senator Becca White]: And it's pretty similar to the ones we've done at the past.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It's almost identical.

[Senator Becca White]: Yeah. Well, it's here. Yeah. Sure. I'm happy. So I'll just start by saying, you know, I had the privilege along with Sandra Clarkson to visit the nation of Taiwan. And the similarities between Vermont and Taiwan were actually pretty startled. They have a democratic republic that is very connected to their civic engagement and the life of a community. And we've built some really beautiful relationships while we

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: were there.

[Senator Becca White]: So I just wanna start by saying, I think there's a real kinship between Vermont and Taiwan, both as having a real connection to our democracy. The first place we went when we were in Taiwan was to a prison where those who had fought for democracy in Taiwan were held for decades. There was one gentleman we met who was stuck in a single room, smaller, similar size to this for, I think it was twenty years, because he was identified as someone who supported the Taiwanese democracy movement. So you could see, for him to be there and as a prisoner who had survived that, to tell us as Americans the value of democracy, that was pretty powerful. So I do think there's a real need for us to identify that friendship because they are in a difficult situation. If you have followed the geopolitics of The Republic Of China in Taiwan, you know that this is a

[Senator Anne Watson]: a real they are in

[Senator Becca White]: a threatened situation as a nation, and as one of the last democracies that's fully functioning in that area. As an economic partner, they're important, but also I think morally as a democracy, we have a lot of obligations. So the phrase resolution doesn't go as deep as that, maybe not that political, but it does state our desire to remain in relationship with Taiwan and to support them as too friendly state to nation as you could be. And we this is very this is boilerplate language, I would say.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: They do this We've used it. We've we've built on language in the past that we have passed out of this committee. I'd add to what Becca has said, which is brought this was made very stark at the the Ministry of Defense

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Where we saw on the map every year how much closer every year they conduct their war exercises. China comes and conducts their war exercises and does their ever more threatening flybys and surveillance of shipping. I mean, they're just increasing the pressure every year. We watch that map and the line because it's the straight between the line the the in the water, the the I I yeah. It's not the straight, but I don't know. Channel between them is just Straight. Straight. Thank you. The straights between them are are modest, and the the line I mean, to see that graphic line every year of how it's increasing the the threat the threatening behavior increasing is is is alarming. It also builds on our objective, which is to really finally explore I mean, to explore. We we got it before

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Oh, yeah. I don't know.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: A trade a trade relationship and setting up some kind of representative that we might share with doing them. Whatever, however we do it, but we need to have better representation in Taiwan. And Taiwan, you

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I'll just end and then I'll let you all discuss it and go back to committee. But I do just wanna say that this resolution was signed on by every member of the senate, all 30. I got it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Thank you.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: That was And great I think that that's also a testament to this has not become a republican democrat issue. This when we went on the trip to Taiwan, we were I think we were the lone Democrats at one point. I I don't remember, but

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: it was Oh, the the chat from Rutland.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yes. So there's a very mixed, I would say, nonpartisan approach to the support here. And it's been something that, as a conversation, you know, I've had across all political lines.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, this is a And if you wanna go to Taiwan Right. And you're interested. I just a reminder that that Taiwan is our fourth biggest trading partner in Vermont's fourth biggest trading partner. Oh, America's. Cool. Great. Thank you very much. Thanks for taking this up. Well, good luck in France.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: We're right on time. Michael. Good morning. Good morning, members of the committee. Michael Chittenden, Legislative Council. This is a timeline to support resolution. I will say if the economy needs to ask you later, yes, I do shrink the length a little bit. What I received from the consulate from the economic office in Boston was about 45% even longer than this. Oh, jeez. You're kidding.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, good editing. Well And done.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: I've worked with the office in Park Pierce, and the staff at the time several years ago knew that I was going to do this and started sending me shorter versions. But there must have been a change in the crew because this year it went back to original version. But the high points and all the Vermont related points are in here in full. That was my first priority, that anything dealing specifically with Vermont stays, and it's there. So with that, as Senator White indicated, and as I can show you, it's every single senator. And it reads as follows, a Senate resolution reaffirming the abiding friendship between the State of Vermont and The Republic Of China and Taiwan on the twenty seventh anniversary of the Vermont Taiwan sister state relationship, and supporting enhanced Vermont Taiwan bilateral relations and Taiwan participation in international organizations. For the record, I will acknowledge that the material sent to me from Boston listed out all the organizations in the title and in part of my trying to consolidate a little bit, I just said international organizations. They're mentioned in the text. We're as The United States and Taiwan share a vibrant and mutually beneficial bilateral relationship based on their shared values of freedom, democracy, the rule of law, and a free market economy. And whereas the US government has encouraged economic, including trade, and cultural engagements and exchanges between the American and Taiwanese peoples, particularly at the state level, and whereas in 2022, The United States and Taiwan launched The US Taiwan Initiative on twenty first Century Trade to strengthen the two nations' economic and trade relationship. And in 2023, Congress enacted The United States Taiwan Initiative on twenty first Century Trade First Agreement Implementation Act and the citation approving the first agreement under the initiative. And whereas in 2025, Taiwan was America's fourth largest trading partner and US exports valued at 54,700,000,000.0, and imports from Taiwan were at roughly 201,400,000,000.0. And for the first time in over a quarter century, The United States was Taiwan's largest export market. And in this agriculture sector, US exports to Taiwan totaled approximately 2,300,000,000.0. And I made sure to leave that alone, that's important for us. So we are at its twenty twenty sixth marks the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the United States establishment as a republic based on democratic principles, and the thirtieth anniversary of Taiwan's first direct presidential election, symbolizing this nation's enduring commitment to democracy. And whereas in 1999, the state of Vermont and Taiwan entered a sister state relationship that has proven mutually beneficial in many ways. And whereas a 2020 driver's license reciprocal agreement between the state of Vermont and Taiwan exemplifies sister state relationship in action. And whereas in 2025, Vermont exports to Taiwan were worth approximately $268,000,000 meaning Taiwan was Vermont's most valuable agent export destination and second worldwide. And Vermont imported an estimated 76,000,000 worth of goods from Taiwan. And whereas establishing a Vermont trade office in Taiwan would further enhance the already successful and longstanding trade relationship. And whereas the government of Taiwan has expressed interest in establishing memorandums. And we had a big discussion about memorandums versus memoranda, and we settled on memorandums of understanding with the state of Vermont, one pertaining to economic affairs to establish a clear structural framework for the two jurisdictions, burgeoning business ties and is secular related to education to expand educational exchanges and cooperation, particularly with respect to Mandarin language teaching. And whereas United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2,758, which the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted on 10/25/1971, replaced the government of Chiang Kai shek with the government of the People's Republic of China as the exclusive Chinese representative at the United Nations and all organizations associated associated with the United Nations. And whereas the controlling factor the US government advocacy of support of a public position was American law. And whereas in 1979, Congress enacted the Taiwan Relations Act of Public Law Number 90 six-eight, which broadly addresses The US Taiwan relationship, and one of its provisions provides for the continued membership of the people on Taiwan in any international financial institution or any other international organization. And whereas Taiwan's participation and contributions in international organizations, such as the International Civil Aviation Organization, the World Health Organization, and the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change would greatly benefit The United States and the international community. Now, therefore, be it resolved by the Senate, that the Senate of the State of Vermont reaffirms the abiding friendship between the State of Vermont and The Republic Of Taiwan on the twenty seventh anniversary of the Vermont Taiwan sister state relationship and supports enhanced Vermont Taiwan bilateral relations and Taiwan's participation in international organizations, and be it further resolved that secretary sanity directs on a copy of this resolution, president Donald Trump, to the president of the Repub People's Republic, Chittenden, and to director general Charles Lowe, the Taipei Economic and Cultural Office in Boston, to Governor Scott, and to the congressional branch.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And there you go. Terrific. Thanks.

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: So fully support the resolution. Got a a half a lifetime of operating offshore, protecting, etcetera. My question here is the one whereabouts about establishing the Vermont Trade Office. Which I'm on page two or? No, No, it's on

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: page one, it's near the bottom, third up on the bottom.

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: I'm wondering if you wanna go that far. I know inside this committee that that would be a potential goal, But we had conversation on this and I'm not sure we even agreed that budgeting for that would be

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: appropriate. I don't disagree. I think we could frame it. I mean, think it is framed as a here. What it only said with virgin pants. And I I just wanna make sure that

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: it gets a little bit

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: of this very poor. I noted it just as you did. I don't think there's any I

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: was wondering about that when I quit it.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Right. So I don't think it sets an ex it it just sets a hope, I think, which is what we have been working and talking about with them for now for several years. Because we used to David, we did have a representative in Taiwan for many years, and then we. I don't know the history behind that. I just know it it we didn't have it anymore, but I think it sets a hope. It just says it would further enhance.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: What was the representation there something that was in statute? This

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: is not in statute. I don't think so, sir. I don't wanna speak. No. I don't think

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I'll just ask Jim Tierney.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: I don't think it was I do not think that the provision was in statute, but Tim might tell me the contract. In my knowledge of the stock.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: It's just nice to know why it was.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yep. I already met one minute ask.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: Probably was economic. I would assume.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It may have been pulled during the recession. Anyway, I'll because it was about then that it was pulled. I'll ask him. Perfect. But, David, thank you. I think it duly noted, but I think it is their fault. I mean, it's a big hope of theirs. I purposely left it out

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: of the title because I didn't think you'd want it in the title. No. No.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It shouldn't be any title. The title is Friendship Risk. What is this title? Abiding Friendship. Abiding Friendship.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Has anybody suggested what he's like, yeah, by burning or establishing an office? Oh. Has it has, in effect, any direct or indirect offer that suggested even as formally by the Taiwanese.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: The Taiwanese just looking for it, from my understanding.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, think that we've a better understanding of what might work, what might not work. I think Tim should come and talk to us about that because And maybe a benefit that that that often those kinds of things aren't stated directly. Exactly. I I know particularly at the moment without having somebody there who would say, ah, identify the companies that might like to invest here. We don't have that knowledge. Kim has our side of the knowledge. He doesn't have the Taiwan knowledge that with this 250,000,000,000 or it's either 20 I can't remember where that zero is, but it's huge amount of money that they're have just voted to invest in The United States. We don't have anyone there saying, ah, this would be great in Vermont. Your company, this would be a great partnership if you invest in these companies. I know from financial standpoint, you know, I was a very large financial services company. Yeah.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: And Taiwan was an extremely important client in the brokerage business far beyond its size and reputation, something you would venture, but very, very significant.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. So I think it's been from an economic standpoint. Yeah. Having seen it in action, being there is a picture of those words, thousand words. I think that that would be great to have a moment in the next couple weeks and chat about this. And maybe even if we could do it before we see the Jennifer and Charles on on Tuesday, the coming on Tuesday. They're coming on April 1. Right. Which is Tuesday. No. It's the thirty first. You know, they're coming the thirty first, actually. We were told the first. I'll tell

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: you why I say that, Senator, if I may, because on the House side, which procedurally works the Taiwan resolution a little bit different and simply introduced in the speaker puts it on the notice calendar for the next legislative day, we were told that the time we need for coming Tuesday, and as a consequence, the House is introducing this on Friday morning so the speaker can put it on Tuesday's action calendar.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Ah, so then we should do the same, because we need they're only gonna come for one day.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: Correct. So if somebody had to come in Tuesday, that's what I was told Betsy Ann told me yesterday morning. Well, that's new news to

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: me because I thought we had an extra day, but aren't we glad we're doing this today? Okay. So then I would I'm just texting Jennifer now.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: The other comment, if I may, senator, is that if you want this read and form the floor since that's an unusual, not the standard process as you recollect from other years, you need to coordinate that with John.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I am already on. Thank you. I just texted Jennifer to find out. But either way, I think at this point, would recommend that we take a vote on this and get this up to the senate secretary's office and just so that we're safe. Thank you. And our clerk is well prepared. You go to my work committee

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: assistant.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: As is our fabulous committee assistant. So as was your chair on this case too, actually, I needed to get this pad. So, senator Weeks, would you be trying to call the roll?

[Senator David Weeks (Clerk)]: Yes, ma'am. Senator Brock? Yes. Senator Chittenden. Yeah. Senator Senator Clarkson? Yes.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: Clarkson? Thank you.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And I don't think we need to present it, but if people would like to make remarks, Randy, I would turn to you to, if you wanted to make a remark about the importance of our relationship,

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: given your experience. You might say just one more thing if I may, you might also want to check with John on that as well as to whether it needs to

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: be warmth. Yeah, but people could make speak up.

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: Oh, absolutely. I'm just saying you may need to have a

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: full report sent from the committee of some sort. I don't think we oh, yes. Given that we are passing

[Michael Chernick (Legislative Counsel)]: it treated as a bill.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yes, it is being treated as a bill. I assume somebody needs to report it first. But again, how about John? Okay, we'll check with John. But would you have interest, given your background, would you have interest in I got

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: We do a more research on history, but it's some of that is right here.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. It's all here. But we could also, I could email Tim, and we can find out the the other piece. Yeah. So what's our what's our process in getting? I just don't know what our process is with I've forgotten about resolutions, how we get that.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I think we operate it the same way as

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: the bill. So So we need a clean copy.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I have a clean copy here. I have the fresh one that they sent down, and then I'll get

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: it right from that. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. We actually have we actually have fifteen more minutes for Thomas Chittenden. We have fifteen more minutes for Ray.

[Senator Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Don't need that.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Don't think you, though. What?

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I don't need that. Right?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I know. But I

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: think if you always wanted Did did I don't we have other amendments?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We don't. We have cannabis amendments at 10:15. Yes. We have other amendments. Are you wanting even more amendments?

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: No. I mean, I I'm I'm waiting for Ellen's change. And then you're like, there's like, I'm gonna go to some natural resources.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. Would you be kind of share with us the change you made and what we've I

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: will yes. The there were two instances where farm worker housing was used more informally. It wasn't the capital farm worker housing report or the title. One was changed, and I asked for the other to be changed. Right. So that's why I No. I didn't ask for the title to be changed because I don't wanna mess with the formalities Right. Of where this land does for our housing. But there are two informal instances that I asked for

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: the second one to be changed, the last sentence. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Great. So I think without objection, we're gonna go off live and reconvene at 10:15 to hear the cannabis