Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: We went to the Insectarium, every Insectarium Oh,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: fun. Oh my God, what fun. Good morning, everybody. It is St. Patrick's Day, Tuesday, March 17, and we have paraded into our committee instead of down 5th Avenue. Here we are. We are in our committee, and first we are addressing amendments to the cannabis bill. And then we're gonna talk about our priorities of for spending in our economic development and housing bills and talk about actually the priorities of all our bills. And we're gonna have lunch. So we're gonna make it through all that. So Tucker, we're gonna begin with Tucker. I think the one amendment that we have actually is something that I have discussed with this committee, which is one of the things I think we have to do is position ourselves to perform the possible federal descheduling of cannabis. So to take a bit, I think we need to be better prepared than we are at the moment. And we have talked about the creating a a regional compact that could work together to both protect our craft cannabis industry, but but just to protect, yeah, protect the whole industry before big canvas will come scooping it. So that is that that is in part what's tee up this amendment. That is what the objective is of this amendment is to prepare us and to have the CCB do the work of preparing us to get to possibly schedule it. Is that and so I asked Tucker if he'd be kind enough to take a stab at this, and this is Tucker very graciously did this. It's just the beginning of what may be our amendment. So we're we're we're just starting. So, Tucker, would you be kind enough to explain how you crafted it and why?

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Sure. I can definitely do that now, and good morning by Brandon Anderson by the side of council. So what you have in front of you is the new amendment from senator Clarkson. You should be looking at draft 1.1, which is dated yesterday at 07:08PM. Senator Clarkson's amendment poses to add a new section 27A to the bill, establishing Workforce Cannabis Compact Authority. Big picture, what this does is it allows the governor to enter into agreements with other states that have the same or substantially similar regulatory model as Vermont to allow for licensees from that other contracting state to conduct business within Vermont. And the agreement, of course, would go both ways, allow Vermont licensees to conduct business in the other party state. There are contingencies set in place that I'll get to later on in the amendment before any of these agreements can be effective. One of four things has to happen at the federal level, and we'll think of them largely as either regulatory changes at the federal level, or an update to memoranda relating to enforcement by the Department of Justice related to cannabis. There's authority in here for the Cannabis Control Board to both participate in the formation of the agreement with the other states, and also to adopt emergency rules governing the admission of foreign licensees within the state, and at that point, I'll note something right up front since we're about to jump into definitions. This language, almost exactly down to the very words on the page, has been adopted for other states. The language is nearly identical with a few state specific conceptions. And the term foreign licensee, before it causes any alarm, just means any licensee outside of the state of Vermont. It is a very common term, foreign versus domestic, and is the exact term that we use in corporate law to describe corporations based in the state as domestic corporations, and those based out of the state as foreign corporations. It is not an indicator of national status, just Vermont or not Vermont. So first, in subsection a, definitions that'll be used throughout the section. Agreement means an agreement relating to commercial cannabis established pursuant to this section. Contracting state means any state of The US, including districts, commonwealths, territories, or possessions that the governor has entered into an agreement pursuant to this section to allow for commercial defense activity. And subsection subdivision three, foreign licensee, folder of a cannabis license issued by another state. Vermont license, a cannabis license issued by the Cannabis Controls Board. And throughout the section, whenever you see a word capitalized, that means Cannabis Injury Fund. Subsection B, we have the authorization. The governor is authorized to enter into agreement with another state of states authorizing medical or commercial cannabis activity between entities licensed under the laws of the contracting state and entities operating with a Vermont license. I'll also, you know, upfront that this came together rather quickly, and I need to make sure that Vermont licenses used to perform through. There are a few instances that I have to correct, but I'll find them pretty easy.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: No. I just wanna say up front how grateful I am to you for doing this in the way of crossover week and the huge amount of work you had. So thank you for fitting this in. And we luckily have Gabe who just arrived in the nick of time, so that you have we have his input too, which

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: is very helpful. Thank you.

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: We have some pervisos related to this authority. First, commercial cannabis activities must be lawful and subject to licensure under the laws of contracting state. And with respect to interstate transportation, the agreement has to prohibit the following. First, in Subdivision A Of 17, the transportation of cannabis by any means other than those authorized under the laws of the contracting state and the regulations of the board, and the transportation of cannabis and cannabis products through the jurisdiction of a state district commonwealth territory or possession of The United States that does not authorize that transportation That subdivision b may look familiar because it is that's on line 10. That's like intermediate routing, if you remember during sports wagering days, not allowed to route your wager for a state that doesn't authorize sports. So, forgive me,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: but is the does this is are these transportation pieces beginning to get at some of

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: the concerns

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: around interstate interstate commerce? They get at

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: the concern that a licensee, for example, from New Jersey, it was a party state, an agreement would transport cannabis to Vermont through a state where cannabis is prohibited. Got it. Subsection C, notwithstanding any other law, foreign licensee may engage in commercial cannabis activity with a Vermont licensee, and a Vermont licensee may engage those activities with a foreign licensee subject to the limitations set forth in this section. Subsection D, a foreign licensee shall not engage in commercial cannabis activity within the boundaries of the state without a Vermont license. So right there, the trigger, you have to get a CCB license before you can carry out any personal cannabis activity within the state. So, here, we,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: it we might envision an interstate licensing agreement. That's a and we'll come to that. The agreement all the agreements that might be in place. But, I mean, just like we have interstate compacts for nurses or, you know, other people that have licenses in several states, is it are we envisioning that we might be able to have a regional license?

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: That is not envisioned here. Okay. The structure that is set up is that this is opening the door to allow, if there's an agreement in the future, we're indigent on a lot happening at the federal level, that you could have out of state businesses to keep their business, say, Vermont. Right, okay. Provided that they get a license from the cannabis control board. Okay, got it. We're on page three, in subsection An agreement shall require that the contracting state impose requirements on foreign licensees with regard to cannabis, and cannabis products be sold or otherwise transferred or distributed within Vermont that meet or exceed the requirements applicable to Vermont licensees. We have the we've been not limited to structure here. Subdivision one, enforceable public health safety standards that are equivalent to those adopted by the board, mandatory participation in a system administered by this state to regulate and track cultivation, manufacturing, distribution, etcetera, from seed to sale. Subdivision three on line 10, standards for testing of cannabis that meet or exceed the standards applicable to testing laboratories licensed by the board. And four, on line 12, requirements for packaging and labeling of cannabis and cannabis products that meet or exceed those adopted by the board. Subrogation five, requirements for quality assurance and inspection of cannabis that meet or exceed those adopted by the board. And six, restrictions on marketing, labeling, and advertising within the state by foreign licensees that meet or exceed the restrictions of Vermont licensees pursuant to this title. And finally, on page four, Submission seven, our process for identification of of adult or adulterated or misprinted cannabis products, destruction of those products using standards that meet or exceed the standards standards adopted by the board. So there's quite a bit of guidance that you've given the governor here on what the standards of a party state have to be before the agreement would be valid and effective. Have not done any sort of analysis on this yet, and if we could be triggered until you've got to the point you actually had an agreement in place, But one area of law that could be triggered by this would, depending on the Vermont cannabis statutes being applied to those licensees from a foreign jurisdiction, is what's known as the unconstitutional conditions doctrine, which states that if the state is going to open up its intrastate business to out of state actors and give privileges to parties who are out of the state, that Vermont cannot extract or remove constitutional guarantees from those out of state actors in exchange for giving them in state lists. That's something to keep an eye on with some of the provisions that have been discussed, particularly Yeah. Around advertising. Now, again, not an issue currently, not an issue under the four corners of this draft, but certainly, if you get to the point in the future where there is this building interstate commerce and you have these compact agreements come into place. It is something that the CCB, the governor's office, and eventually the legislature is going to have to consider. It is whether you are requiring an unconstitutional condition for the of the privilege.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I know this is a it's a big deal, and I I so appreciate you starting us on this because it it seems like such a sensible thing that

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: we could

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: all create a regional compact, but it's complications. And I'm beginning to appreciate it.

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Thank you. All right. We're on line four, page four, subsection F. An agreement shall require that the contracting state impose restrictions upon advertising, marketing, labeling for sale within that state that meet or exceed the restrictions established pursuant to this title, and the rules adopted by the board. Subsection g, agreement shall provide for the collection of all taxes applicable to the medical or commercial cannabis activity.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Taxes, maybe, and fees, or just Are there

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: fees too great? The fees would come into play with the licenses issued by the government. So that is part and parcel of the requirement that the out of state actor acquire a license from the CDC or treat out of the personal license.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: Any questions so far?

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: We're on line 10 on page four, subsection H, an agreement shall include provisions requiring the board and any other appropriate regulatory authorities of the contracting state to address public health and welfare emergencies concerning cannabis that are sold or intended for sale within the state, including for the promptly recall or embargo of adulterated or misbranded products. On line 15, in subsection I, an agreement shall include provisions requiring appropriate regulatory authorities of each state to investigate instances of alleged noncompliance upon the request by the other state in accordance with mutually agreed upon procedures. So you have a requirement for cooperative investigation and enforcement. An agreement shall include provisions requiring the contracting state to reasonably cooperate with the state's investigations concerning foreign licensees, and requiring the board to reasonably cooperate with investigations by the contracting state concerning persons or entities holding state licenses. So we're in subsection J85.1.3. An agreement shall include appropriate provisions reflecting board programs and efforts to promote inclusion and support of individuals and communities in cannabis industry who are linked to populations and neighborhoods that were negatively or disproportionately impacted by cannabis or immobilization. This is the first, point in the structure that has more than just minor technical updates from what has been passed in the four other states, and that those updates are intended to reflect that the Cannabis Control Board has already taken steps to do this and has some of these programs in place, whereas the language in New Jersey stated that prior to the adoption of the agreement, these things had to be implemented in New Jersey and the contracting state. We already have these. Subsection K. Prior to the execution of an agreement or amendments to an agreement, the governor shall, so here are your requirements placed on the governor's contracting ability. First, submit the proposed agreement or amendments to the Board and JFC for review and comment. The Board and committee shall have sixty days to review the proposed agreement and submit written recommendations to the governor. The governor shall consider the recommendations and may revise the proposed agreement to incorporate those recommendations. If the governor does not incorporate any of the recommendations from the Cannabis Control Board or from the Joint Fiscal Committee, the governor shall set forth in writing the reasons that those recommendations were not incorporated. Second, the governor is required to post the proposed agreement or amended on the governor's and the cannabis and full board's websites of Stripe Internet. New Jersey was very specific. These had to be Internet websites. As opposed to those paper websites they have. For public comment for thirty days. Maybe like one of those light rights. Yeah. The governor shall consider any comments received.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So just so we understand there's a flowchart here. CCB would do a lot of the initial thinking and rule making on this.

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: The governor would initiate the agreement process. Right. Yes. Governor initiates the agreement process. Yes. Maybe wait till we finish, and then we

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: could look to do a little flowchart. Does

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: that help? Would that help either? We're on page six. It's Tuesday morning. Then we're

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: have a subsection of Tuesday. L right at the top.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay.

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Now, these are the triggers for an amendment, for an agreement to come into effect. Subdivision one, federal laws amended to allow for the interstate transfer of cannabis or cannabis products between authorized commercial cannabis businesses. So, and plainly, federal law changes on this. Second, federal law is enacted that specifically prohibits the expenditure of funds to prevent interstate transfer of cannabis between authorized businesses. So, the law hasn't changed, but there's no money, or there's a prohibition on money being spent on enforcement activities around this. Subdivision three, the Department of Justice issues an opinion or memorandum allowing or tolerating the interstate transfer of cannabis products between authorized businesses. So you've heard the chair of the CCP bring out the whole memorandum, as an example from the past. If that memo were to be updated to allow for the interstate transfer between party states of cannabis, without having the Department of Justice carry out enforcement activities, that would trigger the ability to enter into an agreement and have that agreement be effective. And what's it called? The COLE, C O L E, memorandum. And it, right now, the language of that memo gets very close, but it still does not, speak to transporting cannabis between commercial party states. And I think specifically what the currently, the four states that have adopted this language is what Vermont would be looking for is some sort of assurance that the states who are party to an agreement like this are not going to, be subject to enforcement around a criminal conspiracy to violate federal law. Subdivision Four, the Attorney General issues a written opinion that implementation of agreements entered under this section will not result in significant legal risk to this state based on review of federal judicial decisions and administrative action. So that subdivision four is the one area where a state level actor could have an impact on the ability for the governor to enter into a agreement that could become effective. If the AG issues an opinion that says that it is safe to enter into these agreements, that could trigger one of these outbacks. Subsection M, the board shall notify the governor and the general assembly upon the occurrence of an event described in subsection L, and shall post a notification on the board's website. So, if any of those four changes happen, it would allow for these agreements to take place. Cannabis Control Board is going to publish any notice.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: If any of these

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: If any of these four happen, he's gonna post a notice saying, Hey, this triggering event has happened. This potentially opens the opportunity for an agreement between the governor and another state that has commercial cannabis.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: Next.

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: Subsection N. Cannabis Control Board is given discretionary authority to adopt emergency rules pursuant to three BSA Section eight forty four, governing the procedures for admission of a foreign licensee to conduct commercial cannabis activities within the state. Notwithstanding subsection B of that section of the Administrative Procedures Act, the board's emergency rules shall be effective for one year. To explain why that's necessary, emergency rules by default are only effective for one hundred and eighty days. Oh, right. During that one hundred and eighty day period, the agency that has adopted the emergency rules has the discretion to propose permanent rules and bring them before LPARD. This gives one year, and I'll explain why once we work through the subsection. Got it. Is that true for federal ownership and state rules as well? I'm absolutely not aware of what the implementation on federal circumstances, but I can certainly look into that. Within ninety days after adopting the emergency rules, the board must report to this committee and House Government Operations and Military Affairs concerning its recommendations for necessary updates to Vermont's cannabis laws and the proposal for permanent rules governing commercial cannabis activities subject to an agreement. This subsection, and it is not in the compact language that was adopted by other states. Split into place here to give the Cannabis Control Board immediate authority to react to one of the governor's agreements with another state, and to adopt emergency rules governing essentially provisional licenses for out of state actors. Those emergency rules would be effective for one year, and that would give time for the board to report to the general assembly, and for the general assembly to be able to make the decision about whether this is going to be a permanent program put into place, and whether to amend any necessary provisions within Title VII to accommodate the presence of foreign licensees within Vermont's cannabis market?

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: What happens if rules are not adopted within that period? If they're

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: not adopted at all? You would likely have these housing actors applying to the Cannabis Control Board for licenses anyway, and I'm not sure if there would be any issues with the CCB in Minnesota.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: But what would happen to those people who are licensed, for example, the meantime, would there be any impact on their licenses if the board just

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: failed to Our current licensees would not be impacted. This would really only impact those out of state actors who are attempting to gain access to Looks like an out state actor who was able to gain access within that limited period. What happens with that license, would they simply stay in effect? If they've already been issued by the campus control board, I guess.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay, I know it's a lot, but, and it's good. Dave.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Just curious, LCAR deals, maybe 10% of all the rules have been through our emergency rules. I'm just wondering where the ICAR, LCAR process reinitiates in this process, if at all, or if this is all a certain level?

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: At the time that the permanent rules are proposed by an agency, it goes through the full roll Now, into there have been instances and paths, particularly during the emergency response periods, where agencies come back every one hundred and eighty days to pre propose the emergency rules, and LCAR, as with some discretion, re granted the emergency authority, but those rules stay in place.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Probably worth taking thirty seconds to explain why this initiative is being proposed now as opposed to waiting to January 2027. Because

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: there may

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: be federal action before that.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. And

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I think it behooves us to be better prepared than we are currently. Okay. I just I was never a girl scout, but I believe it's a girl scout matter and boy scout matter, whatever it's being prepared. I think it's both boy scouts and girls.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Now scouts.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Now scouts. So Boys and girls. I'm, you know, I'm I'm an eldest child. Like, you know, I feel that responsibility of being prepared.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: No. I I I think it just, you know, it needs to be expressed while

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I I've Tucker to actually if we could create an intense section to to to begin it.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: There you go.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Because I think I think we do need an intense section which says quite simply The preparation. In the event that this happens and just what the I mean, there may be enough distractions for the White House to to be a little busy right now, but but having heard the inkling already out of his mouth that this might be coming down the pipe, think we need to be as prepared as possible. And then we can use this as a way to get, CCB working on this and and shape to her prose more in in jank. Kesha.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Not a good to see there, but along that same line of thinking, I get it that we wanna be prepared for possible federal action. In your mind or Tucker's mind or your mind, if this didn't happen, what are the what's that landscape look like? What are your biggest concerns that if we don't have the ball moving and the federal descheduling happens, is it the transportation of marijuana across? What most motivates you and concerns would be what better will actually

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I I think I might because I'm actually, as you know, not a whiz on this in So this I would turn to Gabe and to Tucker to describe what would happen if this happened tomorrow and we weren't prepared.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: For the record, Gabe Hamilton from the Cannabis Control Board general counsel. It's really, this is a this strikes us as an effort to position the state Tucker,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: are you departing? No. Appropriations. Appropriation.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: Good morning, and forgive me I have to be down to Paul in just a minute, but, Dave Gilman, General Counsel What's the most important place for you, right? Are always supposed to focus. I do MDP as long as you'd like, But what we have to say about this is pretty simple. It's really the the defining characteristic of this market is nobody knows what they have to do or have to. And, you know, the the general sense of the board is that it is good policy, big picture, to position the state as nimbly as possible to address whatever happens next, whatever that may be. I don't think this is an emergency in a sense that if you were they ask me to bet on if something were to happen next year that you need to respond to. I'd probably that's not very likely, but we do have well considered legislation here that's been tried and implemented in other states. It's carefully thought through if I look through it, but, you know, usually see what's not under work in Vermont. This is pretty well done. It's drafted in smart way. It's ecumenical. It allows the individual states to retain a lot of control over their markets. It differs. I know where your head is, Senator, because I've worked here on the compact issues with licensing, and in those, there's a compact license, and the individuals don't get state licenses. This is different.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. This is different. That's why I asked this dude so much, so I asked this.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: So there is the risk that Tucker was talking to you about, you know, constitutional challenges to kinda particularly around advertising to kinda keep your model if you're making somebody else give up something that might be protected. But I think those are pretty obscure. I so in general, the board, you know, thinks this is a very responsible measure to make to place the state on nimble footing. Probably, we'll have one or two years to kick the tires, iron things out if we're making a mistake. That doesn't seem likely, though, because the other states that are getting involved have given us a really careful thought, we're basically just adopting that template. So really, a question of policy for you, whether this is the mirror that you feel like you wanna have that in position. It does not seem to us to have any risks. It does I think it would not compel us to do anything that we think is higher interest instead.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: You give us a notion of a flowchart of how this would work because that's what we're gonna ask Tucker. But, yeah, I think you probably have a pretty good sense of that because it requires the c I mean, that's what it requires the CCP to actually begin this thinking about how

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: we would do this. My understanding is I I don't wanna give too much credit. Okay. I read this for the first time at nine this morning. But

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yes. No. I know when you read. So I

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: But but, you know, my understanding is our the CCP gives fairly prominent place to the CCP to make recommendations to the governor about the wisdom or not of joining whatever agreements are. We are comfortable with, you know

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: But you are our CCP. Yes. You are our experts in this area and the governor would naturally turn you anyway. I mean, just just part of the administration and you're doing that work.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: I think so. And I think I think we're comfortable that it it gives prudent place to the board in making recommendations. It gives, you know, prudent time for public consideration before anything is done, and it really just unlocks possibilities that, you know, candidly aren't likely to become reality of it in the coming year, but it does not harm us in any way that I can see to have those possibilities on the Congress. Is that makes sense? So they believe it. Yes. Randy?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I have just a question.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: Is the governor's office there of this and have they put any input in But I have no permission about that. I'm afraid. Yeah.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: This is brand new. We got to this. I just wanted to to have us have a chance. We have a a few days to discuss it. And we aren't this won't be on the floor until next week. So I am assuming that we have the time to prepare to discuss this with Monica and with the governor's office. I I assume that's

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: the case. And I should say that on my very fast read through, I don't see it compelling a governor to do something this high.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. I'm asking. It's just helping us be better prepared for this moment. And I think he would I mean, just doing him reasonably well. I would think that anybody would wanna be prepared with the experts around him, ready, poised for action to protect something to protect the lower interest and Vermont's interests. Thomas.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: No objections. Final movement disorder. You need us to, like, strop ball or whatnot.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. I'd love to have you all on it. I mean, it's to me, this would be a committee. I mean, ideally, I don't need to ever be a sole person. Just thought I started it with Tucker.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Do you see anything in here that might have a effect on state revenues or expenditures for the coming budget year?

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: For the coming budget year, no.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So unless anything would happen. Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: But it has profound effect. So if if it gets an if and that is one of the things we would wanna actually, obviously, be working to protect is is is

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: these are our in our draft cannabis industry. Yes, and I should say one of the unusual characteristics of our market, which is very important to its operation, is the registration of products. And so if this enables us, whether a regional cannabis market, to register and require testing of the products as we do now for Vermont products, which is one per piece of it, but also really important to public protection and protect the integrity of the market, making sure people get what they think they're getting when they buy a product, But my understanding is that that would remain in place, and also that there was a fee attached to that.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So it would actually be more income for

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: a product? Yes, that under our current system, every individual, I would say, product brought in would be charged an annual $50 fee to be analyzed by our experts at habits, certificates, lab results analyzed and whatnot. To the extent there's a budget effect or revenue effect, it's brought up with it. Can take it on fees. But those fees, they should cover cover the cost of review, inspection, etcetera. We know that based on experience. That's what phasers was. We don't really know. I do think that right now it's $50 per, and I don't believe the agency is leaving money doing that, but I think it would require people with more data and information to say whether or not we're breaking I'm talking it right now, but I'm having a measurement of this and it's the measurement. Yes, I think that that's fairly easy to do. It's just something I can do from Right.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It gives you time to actually think about those exact issues.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: And I think the board would tend to agree that major you know, adjusting the registration fee to the actual cost of that government service and making it basically a user fee makes sense, but that's what happened.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: K. Just out of curiosity, where are we now in the state without licensing? It's it was moratorium moratoriums to move it back. It's kind of lost track. Right now,

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: there was some concern in previous sessions about the overconcentration, over saturation of retail as well as the number of cultivation licenses. So the of the work paused acceptance of retail until it has a siting movement in place, and it paused issuance of cultivation licenses right now, and so it has a little bit of stability in terms of what's going on in the market. As we sit here today, one can still apply and receive a license as manufacturer or wholesaler. It's just probably general pause. Thank you. And this is response to both our blooded market and our over cluster, our hyper clustered set of retail establishments. Yes. And that is kind of straightening us up out of time. One of the things you did in the bill was offering localities a little more control, given being some they can feel more comfortable for a student to reach out. Than for the S and T. Thank

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: you. That is very helpful. And the flowchart sort of idea of where this would start, I mean, starts obviously with this proposal, and we'll get and then we'll have some time in the house to flush this out maybe a little bit. But I think it's I I just wanted to get it in here because I think we've talked about it enough to to have this as a concern, as you never quite honestly know with this administration when this might happen. And it's already been discussed once or twice so that I I wouldn't have felt compelled to actually try and urge us into a point to be better prepared. Most of it hurt it now a second time. So I I just think who knows what will happen, but when it happens, I want us to be ready. So what kind of like, other than legislation that sort of picks this into action, then, Cece, can you just sort of do a flowchart for us? I might tilt the trigger up until, well, through the whole thing.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: With the with the caveat that I

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: very Brand new to the I know. I appreciate your new My

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: my understanding is that various states, you would be, I guess, the fifth to implement it. Yes. You know, would then have to say, what's this agreement gonna be? And then how is it going to respect the idiosyncrasies of the various states participating? Sometimes, as you know from from licensing contracts, that means standing off the edges and agreeing we're gonna try to, sync things up. Sometimes that amount will go down. Not everything. This is not compelled by the time, which is one of reasons I think they're be comfortable with it. But decisions would have to be made there about what's the actual content of the agreement. Then the various state governors would have to decide, do I agree with this? Yeah. After consultation with their agencies. So a lot of things have to happen, but again, here, the important thing, I think, from our risk perspective or future planning is, to us, big picture, it has nimbleness, and it does not force anybody's hand. So, you know, that's why I think we wanna force.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. There was no interest in that. It was just getting us getting us prepped. And and so the the concern the dark side if we did nothing and this happened is can you just give us a brief picture of what the dark side would be?

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: It's not very dark, I don't think. It's you know, the risk is that a regional cannabis market gets going without us, and our folks can't participate. It's not. Or

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: or we'll get I mean, I think some of the concern is we would just be flooded by those who can produce more faster, better, cheaper. And, I mean, have some of that obviously because you would have an open a more open market. But I I I also think there are a lot of concerns from from our cannabis sector that they be totally outgunned.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: Yes. I don't think that's a risk of this particular that, you know, things could happen in the federal judiciary or in the congress that that had that effect, but nothing about this particular bill would have that effect. This bill is more about allowing reasonable Right. Regional states with single cannabis to cooperate Right.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And with private departments. Right. So I and I think that our region has reasonable cannabis measures in place. So I'm I'm I'm excited about this. I think we've we started to talk about this when the initial cannabis bill was being proposed, and we met at lunch council with the chair from a house, and we honed the bill down to where it was so that we could present it because it was just so big that we had to be able to do that. So we had pepper and lab at the patient meeting our lunch council. And that that that's actually where we first started to talk about this. So I'm I'm pleased to have it. And I think if you're okay with it, I'd love to have us all on it if that's okay as a committee amendment. And I'd love to have Pepper. The only addition I'd do is have Pepper draft in the intent section. The other thing is we've I'd I'd love to know the other four states that have done this. And now they're are the four that we're talking about in West or the four here in our region?

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: I think New Jersey is one, and I would have to ask Tucker to Okay. List of all. When we I recall seeing and then thinking, oh, good. You know, those those states that generally have implemented No.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I I was impressed New Jersey was out ahead

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: of us. They have really taken some of this stuff in the

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Which is which is great.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: Okay. Good. Alright. Thank you so much. To clarify, in general, I work past with the bill, but is it correct that states actually have to be continuous to be able to participate in the government? It appears to me that there's a provision whereby with the assent of if the states But the language carefully, compelling any intermediary state to allow that premises to stop us from harm. But the prohibit states that are not contiguous, don't have an agreement participating with another state that's in between. They don't have

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: to be contiguous in this. They They're not envisioned to be contiguous.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: But I I and I get here. I'm so far out of my depth that I almost shouldn't have tried to answer questions on my head. But we can I can answer questions to which states can can deal with each other as participants in something to do that? I think that's difficult. It is. How are you going to get it from A to B if it has to pass through another state that's not?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, that's why some of that is addressed here and Tucker can answer

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: that long form. As I said, maybe you went through some pad, but I did pick up how it's addressed.

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: You're gonna

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: put it on a truck that moves it from state A to state B, and you have to go through state C to get there, is that a problem?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I think it's addressed on page two, Tucker would have to explain it more fully. Off the cuff, I

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: believe the short answer is it's a problem as Stacy says it is,

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: but I should defer to Tucker on that.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll have Doctor.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: I understand this better than I do right now.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Me too. But I think we're it it's a good start, and I think it gets at what we wanna be doing, which is being prepared in case this should happen before next January. Please get those started and get you started more importantly. Yes. And gets the governor's antenna up on it as well, which

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: is which is good. Gives him more to talk about

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: at those governor's conferences. So That's right. And is do we have any notion if is Tucker coming back to us or is he no I think he did accidentally double oc's operations in the senate health care so I don't think he would do that so house appropriations Our appropriations is Sorry, Senate. Senate appropriations is defeating them.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: Senator, I think he's in Senate Health and Welfare. They're going to 78.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Overview in Senate Health and Welfare.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Jay, thank you very much. This is great.

[Gabe Hamilton, Cannabis Control Board General Counsel]: It was nice to see you. Thank you.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Great to see you. Okay, so we're going to do this as a committee amendment and doctor answered some of your questions. You take fees every time you say foreign license, it means you have anything other than for voluntary. I know. It just

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: sounds so I just I had no, like, real bone to pick there. It just sounded very Right. Sinister.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So what I'd love to do now is just I I I sent you the priority blitz for the housing and the economic development bill just because we haven't had a chance to do that, and I would love to do that before I go to appropriations this afternoon. Thomas and Randy, I'm gonna defer to you to to carry the water in finance for our bills. Thomas.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: But I just sent an email cc you, senator Brock, to incumbents as well as the drafter. I'm I'm planning to put forward, but I'd love to synchronize with you a lower fee. We're at a thousand dollars on the the tobacco bill. So which bill are we talking? Talking about.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Should we start with that bill?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Oh, I'm sorry. Thought that's what you just said.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: No. I went all around.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Oh, okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So you specifically let's chat about s one ninety eight.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So on the tobacco bill, I've been meaning to catch senator Brock when he thinks, but I've got multiple people in the hallways just raising a lot of concerns over the thousand dollars. I didn't sense this committee a great deal. High. A part in position on it. And so in that email Is that why?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: It's one of two people. One of two. Alright.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So Yeah. Hopefully, this might get you to more comfortable. I'd love to explore the other one, I think you told me about. But the proposal, the email I'll forward it to you as well. It just outlines what our neighboring states do and something much more reasonable that I'm sensing support for somewhere between the 250 and $350 range. But I'd wanna check with you and hear your thoughts.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: The only question that I would have is what's the purpose and cost increase? The purpose and cost increase to get additional revenue or the purpose to equalize the actual cost so that the cost reflects facts and so that we're not subsidizing the tobacco industry, for example, by having fees that are unrealistically low. I don't know the answer to that.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I think the other purpose is just if we were to do fees that that approximated the cost of what tobacco cost the state, the fee would be $10,000. I mean, the tobacco cost the state hundreds of millions of dollars a year in healthcare. I mean,

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I'm interested in the botanical costs.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I know. I appreciate. So I'm just saying I think that the that a lot of the health advocates concern here, it's also designed to be a thoughtful fee that reflects in part all the additional costs of the tobacco that the

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: tobacco impact on the cost that is so low that it encourages better to to to do this along the way.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It's zero at the moment, right?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: It's combined, so arguably $110 but it's combined with alcohol, 50 of a bad op. Right. With regards to the administration, the deputy commissioner, she's aware of this. I I think she can speak to your point as to what being more recently about to cover the expenses of Exodus.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And the other issue in finance because that's the main issue in finance. What's the other issue in finance?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Back up. The other I don't know if it's a finance issue. I I've heard concerns raised, but I'm getting conflicting things on the position for enforcement. So that's more of an appropriation thing. So I I think we're

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So I'm will take that up in approves because I will yeah.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: We're not on the probes.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: But what I mean?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: No. But because you're the reporter of the bill. As you'll recall, the governor vetoed the flavored tobacco piece because there was co enforcement. This was a response actually by the advocacy community to say, okay, no enforcement, we're putting enforcement in. And so that's what that is about. Just so you know. So I would hope, and I'm gonna hopefully have a chance to chat with Jason about it.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: And so your concerns about that position, but that's going to defer

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: to approach.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It's a tough year for new positions. There is no question, but just to give

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: you that. Enforcement for positions that involve the health or something like tobacco, they could be more receptive to that than cannabis increases, but it's gotta be a real case made for it.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Well, think that Rosen made a strong case for the incredibly challenging Internet world, is what this position is for, is to enforce the online sales.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I want to drag you in to the other point. Do you want to raise that now? I know it's already passed out of committee, but do you want to go back through your concerns on that, Bill?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Fees and penalties, the percent increases unreasonable. Second was the tri budget that we The

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: pop thing, the taking away the thing for kids. That's real. So removing

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: all, Yeah, removing. Kids making these decisions.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So we'll have further conflict.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I I won't portray that on

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: the floor, but I I I may follow-up. I'm not sure. Not sure.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Like putting words in other people's mouths.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So while we're on finance, so just trying to think the cannabis bill as we think around. You've got fees.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: We also got $3.28,

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I think, to set in plans.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Oh, are you guys doing 03/28?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Well, it's not on the agenda, but I think it was directed to us.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So it is directed. I'm doing three twenty eight and three twenty seven in approves at 02:30. So I'm I'm not sure if

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: it's that money that's first. But

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It it may be, but I because I have to do it when say, it that's why we're doing it today. But so because I we won't be there, I'm gonna rely on you guys to carry the water on 03/27 and 03/28 in terms of finance. 03/27. So let's should we look at the priorities and because they that'll tell us what's what's finance and what's gross. So should we let's start with with Chris in the room. So why don't we start with 328? I'm gonna give you back I gave you, Thomas. I'm gonna give you back your ears so that you can talk about yours and your ears. Okay. So we have as far as I so we're talking about housing, priorities within our housing bill, and I would just Andy has asked us to prioritize spending as as is reasonable, and we had wanted to do that anyway. So we have six pieces of financing, one of which is a tax credit. So the others are just straightforward appropriations. The so should we just go through and prioritize where people are with it with each with each piece? What is your top priority in the housing bill spending, Dave? Top is VHIP. VHIP? Okay. Six.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: V two. Oh. V z e m d w.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I think

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I looked over at

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Tom, and we have, like, the doctor. She pissed. Just over at this.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. So, Randy, where are you on on your first priority? Oh, Okay. And Kesha?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I I love BIP. I think number one, you can't get BIP with dollars out the door unless you have a physician. They already get money. Like, if you were just saying which programs do you like, I could put it at the top of the list. But what we're saying is, is this the best use of another million dollars right now? And I think they'll be able to draw down, you know, what is like a sizable pot of money for VHIP right now that's given out in small enough chunks that it makes a big difference per unit even if we don't find another billion dollars worth and everything else with a much easier one.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Right. So your first priority is?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: My first priority is actually the the changing the treasurer's credit facility because that's that's like That will add to

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: That will

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: add, know, and a half billion. Like, I looked at it from

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: a from, like,

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: a a utilitarian perspective, I wanna say, not just, like, what

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: do I buy?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: But That's what I put

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: as low as because I figured it's a decent slip.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Also they they have to figure it out. Also, all we have to do is authorize it. It's not any money out of it. So given Approach's making decisions of the of the I mean, I think number two is kind of not really an Approach priority.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: But the problem is Approach has traditionally not been in favor of giving the treasurer more discretion over the the monies that he is able to he proceeds. So, like, that's why I put it first. It is easy money to say to them, please just do this. Like, we don't have any real money

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: to throw at. Okay. So I put my first choice is

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: the down payment assistance program, Which is you

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: so Okay. So TC, your second choice is number one.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: My second choice is down payment.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Down payment. Okay. Got it. Kesha, you are also K r h. That one. And David?

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Regional planning. So Great.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And Randy, what's your second priority?

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Probably hit the.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: You know, I think my side of choices is too. So I you and I are back and forth about the two. Third choice, Tom.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: The previous, it was the really small money, 3,600, but then then my fourth choice

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I'm not I'm not so worried about that.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Yeah. I'm not really worried about 30 Okay.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: David? About $40. 36. Passing.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Number three. 33. Is that right? Service supported housing? Yes. And a rent fee? Where does down payment assistance

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Yeah. Tax credits fit for you guys? It's not okay. Worked. Okay. Oh, DW, that's your number 4? Okay. Thank you. That's helpful.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Kesha, well, Randy, thanks. Kesha, what's your number 3?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: The 3600.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: For me? So, Randy, what's your third choice?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Oh, sure.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Was worried about that. That was your second choice. What you think about it, David, you already set your fourth your fourth priority is the down payment assistance. And, Tom, what's your what's your for?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I'll go with the service support housing.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: K. Right. And Kesha, what's your for? DHC.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: The positions.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Mhmm. Right.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yep. Me too. And, Randy, do have a third and fourth choice yet?

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Inquiring for it. That's third second, resilience.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: You could think about it for a sec. We can finish up. Tom, what is your fifth choice? The DHCP positions.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Okay, and David? Fourth of game, Chancellor Dinesh. Would you ready for the fifth? Yeah, I'm ready for the fifth. Treasurer's correct.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Two, okay, great. And Kesha, what's your fifth?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So, fifth was the municipal, regional grants, not because I think they're not important, but maybe Tom's logic or one of the other ones. Think there's an existing resource that wouldn't be that hard to modify to give them that money. It's not the new money. Right. Right. So maybe that's a higher priority that should happen.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. And last, Thomas? Treasurer of credit facility.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: And David? Sessions. And I'll give you my perspective better than

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Yeah.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Perspective from business lens is we never create new positions until it's proven that all the positions that they already have, in particular project organization, being well utilized, Yeah. We're getting. Anyway, that's just a perspective, and that's my first reaction. Right. Thank you.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I appreciate that. And the challenge we face, as you know, is they won't talk about these once the budget's been presented. So these were from pre this was in these were in their bill, the administration's bill.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I have learned enough around here to understand that if you really wanna make point, you can edge around the topic, come back out from a different direction, make your point. In this case, if they said, well, we did due diligence and we simply not maintain the level of service these programs with our current management. Good. Right. No, thank you. Appreciate it.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Kesha, what's your sixth choice?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: It's VHIP because 3,000,000 feels like the right amount right now with all of these competing. They have 4,000,000 in the base already. Oh, I was probably confusing it with something from the economic thing, 4,000,000 feels good enough when FA land is a big round number, and I think it's hard to tell the appropriations committee Right. Just come out with another million for this.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Right. Okay. Randy, when you have time, we'll just fill you in.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Alright. What's your third, fourth, fifth, sixth grade start?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Right. Thank you. I know I I'm not very good at grids and charts, but I I thought this was at least worthwhile. Okay. That thank you. That's very helpful for housing. And then economic development. I gave you all the similar cheap, and I I'm giving back, which you guys who were so bloody good at this. I'm a bore. I mean, what you just whizzed it out here. Chittenden, goes to you. And okay, sure this goes to you. Thank you. Well, thank you. I just thought you know, the floor was a good time to work on it. Oh, may I just say thank you for your words on CTE. What was critically important about CTE is that we get the house bill because they did not get permission to do more an extra week. Tanya asked very good questions about what does it call you know, she asked about career and technical education. Senate very kindly moved this bill basically as it was drafted as intent just to get a senate CT bill to them because they are really doing the heavy lift here of going through what the administration has proposed. And so thank you to education for passing that out in that passage. Okay. So let's look at

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: he was gonna run through the same thing, if if that's okay. So

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: okay. So What did I just do with my brain? Okay. Well, anyway okay. So economic development. And I apologize, but I'm gonna ask Tom and Randy to carry the weight for both economic development and housing and finance on those two big sections, which were really helpful. I have language for you on the downtown and village text stuff if you want. Okay. So how about we just go through the same orders we went through David? I mean, beginning with Tom, David, Randy, and KRH, and AHC. Number one?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Don't tell

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: me what your number one? Number one is number one.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Okay, David. What's your number one sign?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I guess same for me too. Randy, what's your number one? And Kesha? Small fits. All

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Oh, were we supposed to

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I was I was breaking them out, but you're if you wanna do small and I think that's that's a great way of looking at them.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Do you do you it looks like you have two groups. Only two groups. This I'm not sure we have that. I saw this old matrix.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Oh, I gave you on the floor this. No. This is what I was going to Oh,

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I thought it was I thought this was another copy of what's sitting around Hinsdale last time, so we did share.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: It it was I worked for David. I did. I worked off of them.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Okay. And you

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: worked out, and I'll catch up. I did it as they were in no. I'm sorry. Didn't you get a sheet?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I did, but I thought it was the same one, so I thought

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Oh, got it. But that's okay. It's because you're still your first choice. It sounds like your first priority is still downtown Village Shacks credits.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: And, Kesha You've got a sheet with that list on it. Correct? And I'm just wondering

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I gave it to you on the floor. On the floor plan. I had both these sheets at

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: your desk with a note to you. Alright. This today.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: No. A page difference.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: A pay it was sitting no. I had her put it right on

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: your desk. I didn't see it. I don't see anything today on on on

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Oh, I gave you both these sheets.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Okay. Okay. Let me

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: give me give me two secs. Let me go print it out. That was on your desk. So

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Are you still

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Walk through the. I think, Pam, I saw you come in. Don't worry. I haven't forgotten you. You're right behind me. If you just print out hold on one sec, Mike. I'm not very good at doing two things at once. Let's do the both things for Randy. If you could print out this for Randy and Well, it's kinda yeah. The and then we'll we'll be in the lounge.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: We were just gonna print both of them freaking right now. And,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: sorry. We're on your desk, so I don't

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: know what happened. So I don't know. I'm just

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I can't believe you.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: You I have to just go into head first here. That would be really kind of you. And then I will send those to you so you But, Randy, we're just doing we're just they're in the Ledgeland printer.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Yep. They were at your desk. Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I have already. Apologies. We are Great. So this is what was I had given to a page of what I heard. It's prioritizing well, that really bothers me. Anyway, there we are. So you're gonna play a little bit of catch up here. And, Thomas, I'll print out these this additional work I've got for you. So we're all if that's okay, we're all set. I don't driving because

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: that's

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: okay. So let's let Randy catch up. And, David, you okay to start this? Okay. Great. So I think we Kesha, do you want to just say support the all all all four of those small business supports? Maybe I thought I was,

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: like, getting a lot of bang for my buck.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I do. But I'm I appreciate you getting bang for your buck. I'd love to

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: make that my I I think that's what makes it an economic development.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. I agree. Okay. I'm putting down two. The whole thing is your number one. Okay. That's my number two. So there we go. Thomas, what's your number two? Brownfields. Randy. David?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Rory.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Randy?

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Number one or number two? So your number one I Is increasing down on the Is fatty brig that number one? That's number one. Okay. Rhett Fields is number two. Okay. Hold on.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We'll get to we'll get to number we'll get to on Kesha, what is your number two?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Voren. I was convinced by Senator Weeks passion.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Love Senator Weeks passion on this one. I wanna see him on

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: a bike. Yeah. That's really what I want. On mountain bike. About riding, snowmobile. Scuba diving.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Actually, I really wanna see you. Short one. I wanna go scuba diving with you. Her right. Hands out of the shot. Okay. Thomas, your third priority.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I similarly was impressed by the passionate speed by such weeks, and I

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: have go right as

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: well. Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Great. David,

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: what is your number 3? Grounded.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Randy, what's your number 3?

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Go right. You have that as your second. Second. Hold on. You at Brownfields? Okay. Great. Good. Thank you.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And so number 3 is your third choice. Okay. 33. Kesha?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I said Montreal. I felt bad, but I didn't wanna get that selling for dollars.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: No. That's for Taiwan.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: But But language is to feel good about Montreal, honey.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: It. Got it. Got it. Got Got it.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Fourth choice. Fourth priority, Thomas. Fourth priority is

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: that resources for small business?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: David? International trade on travel.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Okay. Randy? Your fourth priority? Supporting small distance with the exception of M. D. You're not supporting the increase.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Kesha?

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I went with the Downtown and Village Center Tax Credit for the amount of money I was thinking about in the other bills that I just don't think there's an extra million dollars laying around in

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: the American Bank. So 3,000,000 is better than getting cut right now. Yeah. There's that. There is that. Okay. And

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Fifth, Thomas, you're fifth. Montreal office. Okay. And David? Small business. Randy? It's.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: K. Kesha, your fifth? Brownfields because you can't find 1,000,000. And

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: there's and let's look at so I think on all of these are various decisions. For example, I put at number five the Montreal office, which I think would be a great idea, but when you have an administration that doesn't want it, I hate to give people something they don't want. They want Montreal and they don't

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: want Taiwan. So I got the 75 ks knocked off.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I'm sorry, misunderstood. I thought they got it. In addition

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: to the Montreal office money in order to pay for Taiwan.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: In here, we'll show you the it's in the

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: governor's That's fine then. That's fine. In fact, I probably do that, you know, knowing that.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So what we have language in the bill is it continues to support the Montreal office, and it supports their doing the work to In Taiwan. To develop the

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: relationships with Taiwan. And I absolutely support that. Yeah. I I think the it was premature to probably do the Taiwan at the moment. Yeah. Okay. I got that. Good.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Great. Thank you, guys. That was really helpful. I hate to ask because they're all our babies and but, you know, all all these four bills. But if we well, I'm just not gonna ask. I think we have to I think they're all they're apples and oranges. What do

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: you want us to reflect on?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: You don't have to. So Annie said to me, well, so if what are your priorities in the bills? I said, well, they're all important or we wouldn't have spent so much time on them. I you know, and they're all different. So I don't I don't feel like we should be prioritizing the bills. But if we want to, we could do that. It makes me feel a little because they're so different. I mean, the cannabis I mean, he wants you know, is the housing bill your most important bill or is the economic bill or is the the vaping bill or is the cannabis bill? So I'm happy to entertain which bill is your top priority, but I also think they're so different. It's very hard to Who wanted that? Andy did. I said, you know, you're not just gonna give us one thing. You're gonna give us pieces pieces in each one, so I just don't feel as comfortable.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Oh, but only on the money, not on like the No, you're under extreme pressure, so

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I understand that. I absolutely understand that. Mean, one of the things that I always did with the budget is I've listed all the line items that were subject matter, things that we had to do in order of importance, and then drew a line when I ran out of meeting. And I think that's what he's trying to do, that's not an unreasonable thing to do.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Especially since the subject matter expertise theoretically exists here for this particular topic, I Okay. Think rub is

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So I'm happy to give this to you. I just gave you an out if you didn't wanna do it. So, Thomas, of the four bills that we are looking at, the vaping bill, let's just call it, economic development, housing, and cannabis. Have to tell you what are we what

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: are we doing right now?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We're prioritizing. I'm asking each one of you if you had to go which was of those four bills which were your first second third fourth all other bills have been

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I don't even know how much money

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I'm choosing to not answer because I have no favorite children.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Thank you. I that's what I've said to Andy.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Okay. So we could have a discussion about it, and then you could take that discussion to Andy. I'm happy to. Mhmm. But I guess it's hard for, like I I don't know that it could be like one two three four. And they're not

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: gonna make decisions that way. They're gonna make decisions within each bill.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: You

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: know? To me, it's not. It's irrelevant how we prioritize the bills. They're gonna make decisions on the money pieces of each one

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: of the bills. I think So I'm not At some point, it it would help to know whether it's, like, informally done or during committee time, you know, where they're really struggling, where if they got a certain amount of money left and they're thinking, like, who really needs this or something?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So I guess the other thing I would say is we have been given all these jurisdictions. The vaping bill is my number one consumer protection bill. Right. My how the housing bill is my number one housing priority. Right. The the cannabis bill is my number one candidate. Right.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: So so we have You know, when we did when we originally fought for VHIP before it was base budgeted, the the thought was we care about housing, and this is the most number of units we could get for the investment. So I still think we could have some principles like, we want children to be safe. We want children to

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: be safe in housing where cannabis is not readily accessible and where their their parents' businesses have been well resourced Well, before we well gone

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: and saw this as the best return on investment

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Based on a certain metric. And there's a different lens. You're absolutely right. There's that and those lenses for each one of these. But I would say for the jurisdictions that we are charged with prioritizing, I don't have a priority on any of those jurisdictions. They're all important is what I tried to say Oh, you're welcome.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Okay. Go for it. Economic development. Okay. Absolutely never mind. It's the problem. It's the problem that plagues the state, everything else is a symptom. Human housing is a symptom of the economic problem. That's why I would get that up again. Happy to

[Tucker Anderson, Office of Legislative Counsel]: And then when you got into a

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: discussion after that, and really wanted to carry it to its logical extension, then you say, what's the most important thing in economic development? Where should the emphasis And done in a way, what you're doing is you're taking a bunch of disparate things and you're putting them in a list of priorities. There she is.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Will say this. The cannabis industry has proven itself as an absolute pillar of the rural economy. And so to me, that's our rural economic development bill at this time. Yes?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, the rural economic development compared to the urban economic development, I think failed to theirs.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: This one connects all of them. To me, it's an economic development that shows me.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Not trying to push back and get it, it's a craft market, okay, let's go. I think you got all the right tools in place, but there are bigger fish. Well, to that end,

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I agree with the large extent to senator Weeks that I want to attract. I I want to support the small businesses, cannabis and farmers and all that, but I also, as a Vermonter, I want to see the big businesses come there too, the growth of medium sized. So I think what we do with veggie is gonna help that. I would love to see the next idea come to Vermont and build a new plan and facility and create those types of jobs for the next generation of Vermonters. So that's why I'm very much on the same page as the governor is I think we need more taxes, more taxpayers, and I think that will happen for economic growth that gets back to the permitting and regulatory space. But we did do something good with veggies, so that's in the bill, and I think that's an important tool to to help businesses grow Yeah. And attract other businesses.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So would economic development be your first priority?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Patent housing. I don't know if I put economic bills above housing. I feel like housing is very important to me and variety of fronts, but economic bill, let's write it down. They're different.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. Go ahead.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: I would we cannot attract people to the state without how they put this.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Why? I think they're all the top priority in their jurisdictional area.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. We have to do this.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So what's your number two?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: It's good to have this conversation. It is, but

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: we want you all to know that they're all our children and we care enormously about all

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: of them.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: Who are you talking to right now?

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: To

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: the people people who are We To

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: can't develop it without a finance policy that makes sense, and the Roth and Rich policy is not making sense if it chases away the economic development that we're seeking.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: So you asked a question.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: David, I ask you, how's it going? Randy, what is your top priority and what's your second? My second is salary. Okay. And Kesha, I think I've got cannabis. And what's your second? Housing. And, Thomas,

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: what's your third?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So I feel like this exercise is only gonna cut three. I'll just caveat again. I have no favorites. And consumer protections are incredibly important. I'm just saying a lot of those spaces, I'd like to stay consistent with the regional neighbors and also yield to a lot of the federal government federal government's role in providing, synergies across our state boundaries.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So s one ninety eight? Sure.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Okay. David, what's your second? Small crop canvas.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. Rand, what's your third? Okay. K.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: And, Kesha, what's your

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: third? Need tobacco. Okay. And last but not least, Thomas? Weed. Cannabis.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Weed. Not against it. I just

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: David Weed. David Weed. Oh, oh, so sorry. David. Surviving.

[Sen. David Weeks (Clerk)]: That's more.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Randy, what's your last? Cannabis. That's the last but least. Not least. Can medication. Your last year. Development.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Cannabis come back and kill the pain at some point.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: That's why it's exercise. They're all my favorite children.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale (Member)]: They were all economic development too.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: They're all economic development, every one of them. So that's why, Yes. Great. That gives us I think that is very helpful. Thank you. We go offline. Think I just we have we're gonna have