Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I'm so sorry.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Welcome everybody back to the Senate House Conference on Ask 127, the omnibus housing bill. It is still the twenty ninth at 07:45 and we are back in session. And you guys, I know, have been doing some talking, thinking, working. So would you like to tell us what you've come up with?

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: We would. So we are still in an increment of 75, 85. Willing to move forward with affordable and not including moderate. And we took you seriously when you said, what is a cap we could live with? And we took that seriously. And so, we looked at what our housing needs are, and our housing needs are fairly substantial. And we looked at what Chris Donnelly in CHT has said is the average cost of infrastructure per unit. And we have work figures based on that. And so, we know that we need 7,500 new units of housing every year. And we work with FC to figure out how many that might conceivably be financed with a chip program. And that was about 3,750 units. And so, are looking at 200,000,000. We have Patrick Titterton has done the workout on this. He's bringing it up to you because we added an additional column of what additional revenue to the Ed Fund it is. So we have done that, and Patrick will be here in about five minutes.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: We have two small And we have two small additions. Additions.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Do you want to mention Sure.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So we feel pretty strongly about the ten years. Maybe that was already decided.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: We already agreed

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: to. And we hadn't noticed that there was a five year look back at the cap. It wasn't even a report. It was a review. It was some kind of review on my prescription. Recommend. Yeah. Without going too much into how Jessica and Pepsi folks have felt about this process, we at this point just feel this is entirely unnecessary and that, you know, Pepsi's been through quite a bit.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And we have the annual report.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: We have the annual This is so much reporting.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We just felt that reporting that Pepsi does.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Yeah. For two people that they I mean, maybe they're gonna get another person or two one day.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So I

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: think Well, I already suggested that when we chatted about that our our first meeting. Yeah. But if we're going give them all this work, we need more people and fancy.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So I think the discussion was if the cap is at 200,000,000, then you don't really need the next two subsections.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I mean, Matos still loves if you want 5,000,000 more dollars, go for it.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Just in case we build another 50 units.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: You know?

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Anyway, we path is here.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: But we're willing to let that 5,000,000 go.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And Have that approval there for that 5,000,000. So we

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: took we took you and we worked out our numbers, perhaps. And we have come up with a number that we think we could And

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: that we have confirmation that the administration could sign this bill. This is it. I would like to go home and watch my daughter close her eyes. We

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: have yin and yang experiences going on.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: She's to

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: open her eyes and minds getting married. I know. I think we should all give Alison some credit for missing and her son. The lover's eyes. Unless,

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: of course, you really wanna skip the day. We're on camera. Oh, are on camera.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: We knocked you.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Because we're on. Okay. So that's

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: They really are there.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Oh, you want the spreadsheet?

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yes. I would love to see the spreadsheet. Here we

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: your spreadsheet. Spreadsheet is here, and

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Patrick has done no one's work in speeding. Thank you, Patrick, for staying. Spreadsheet ended up being hit.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So it's ten years for the BEPC adjustment to the increment is what you're talking about, first sight on the projects?

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: And no five year, whatever that was.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Five year of the cap to review it because there should be sufficient money. Anyway, got an annual report.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: It's even more than we thought. It's 38,000,000 back to the Ed Fund.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: My math was incorrect.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. No. My math was very close. What's this year?

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Sorry about that. Okay. You're welcome, my pen. What's that? Welcome to my pen. Oh, this is your pen? That's there you go. I have several pens going right there. I think most of them are yours.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: So I think that is where we are. Alright.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. So any comments from my fellow? It's 200 a year, what are looking at? The maximum exposure, and we did it over ten years.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Twenty years.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: No. Ten year period of

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Oh, okay. But it's a twenty year CHIP.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Excuse me. Right. Twenty year increment retention, but ten years of issuance. Yeah. Correct. And the assumption is 70%, what do you use for the increment?

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: 75. Five, eighty five.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: But 85 is not an issue, 75.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Just 75. Okay.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Ten year tranches. Okay. So the maximum exposure according to this is 38,000,000 to the education fund portion.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: That's better.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Column. Yeah. If we added in just what's the Ed fund portion, that would be

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: That's revenue. Education tax,

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I recommend.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Revenue to the Ed fund.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay, okay, okay. Just subtracting those.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Because some of us feel, this is We should look

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: at that figure at the end and say, if you're going to fix your roof and invest in your house, you get that return on investment. This is basic economics.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Any comments, gentlemen? Thank you for working through us. Yes. Really appreciate it.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: And thank Patrick. You. Yeah. Patrick.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: And everyone. Megan.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Everyone who Everybody's hurt by somebody else.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yep. So thank you for going forward.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: Cameron.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yep. It is. All

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: week. We I think is there do you have any comments? I mean, I only have one. I I did not you know, I don't wanna get into the numbers. I I think that for me, at least, I never saw a chip as being that powerful. I think it's more like 20% of the units that are produced would actually be financed by chip. But I don't know what you're I don't I know. Yeah. But I don't know what you think. I don't I'm not a chip expert.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I can't

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: If we have the opportunity to fund that many new units per year

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: We'd be thrilled. Wow. We'd I

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: I do wanna remind the house that last year you came to us with a proposal, not fully funded, to get a billion dollars over ten years for 3,000 units of housing. So this is a much lower cost per unit. Just want to put that on the table as we talk about big round numbers. And I really

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Right. Our thoughts on that is what Chris' was. I was 50. Yeah.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Alright. So So

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: what is our thought about going forward? Well, she needs to know

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: because she's not here tomorrow.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: But Well, I'm always with you. This is our thought about it, though, and I'm always with you. It's fair.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: But I think we'll just absorb this and have to get back

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: to Okay.

[Thomas Chittenden (Member)]: So I I don't think there's any getting back to us.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We to know what think. This is a favorable presentation, but we can't commit yet. You have to confer. So

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I'm available from one to three. Yeah. Okay. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. Okay. That is my window before the window. Of opportunity. That is my window of opportunity.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: To buy what an electronics insurance.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, okay. Yes, and I understand from our secretary that that's okay.

[Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay, that is okay. And really, thank you very much for all your work. Thank you, Jim. Really appreciate it. Thank you. And really continuously, this is, I think, really an excellent process, but we'll just absorb this and we can go offline.

[Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: We're