Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Welcome everybody back to the House Senate Conference Committee on S-one 127, the Office Housing Bill. It's still the twenty ninth, Thursday, and we received the House conferees received from the Senate conferees a response to our response, and now the House is going to go over our response to your response. Tennis. So you wanna bring it up?

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Let's do it. John Gray, office of the legislative council. Hopefully clear here. So, again, like earlier today, the changes you're gonna see highlighted are changes against the last draft. So these will be changes against the senate proposal. So the first thing to note is in our affordability construct, the house is acceding to the senate's durational requirement for the affordability piece. This will be picked up both here and in the moderate income housing development. That's that preserve affordability until all indebtedness have been retired for the project. So you're not gonna see any highlighting because that's agreeing with the that's agreement between the house and senate companies. Same piece on moderate income housing development, same durational requirement, and that's pages three and four. The, first change you're actually gonna see is in the housing infrastructure agreement section, which is on page seven. And this is the much discussed subdivision four related to primary residency. What you'll recall from the senate proposal earlier today was there's a two pronged approach which distinguished between owner occupied and rental housing, And so that for owner occupied, you would need to ensure that it's initially offered exclusively as a primary residence, and that for rental housing, it would be for the duration of the, until that indebtedness is retired. What you see the house proposing here is just applying the same durational requirement to both owner occupied and rental housing. So that's what this subdivision report is.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: My lines. And

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: and it's saying provide terms to ensure that it's off the any housing unit is offered exclusively as a primary residence until all indebtedness for the housing infrastructure project of which that housing department is part has been retired. And really, way to think about it is earlier, there was this distinguishing between owner occupied and rental, and it's applying the same durational requirement that the Senate had proposed for rental housing also to owner occupied. So it would apply across all categories, which is why you now just see one sentence rather than two prongs.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: we might not have addressed it in our proposal to you, but one of my concerns was always that we're asking the municipality to do this.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: It needs to be the housing partner, basically.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I mean, terms and sufficient remedies or the ordinance, this I think we have the only way that anyone's gonna be able to do this outlined in the next section. So I don't think we're in disagreement. I just think we not try to ask for other terms and remedies. I mean, who are you asking?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: To clarify. Okay, let's clarify something. Okay, what we're talking about here is not talking about low, moderate, mid income. We're talking about, oh, I just want to go. I know it's there. We're clarifying. So this is the

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: primary residence. Okay?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Mhmm. We, in our committee, added if the municipality so elects an ordinance, actually, in response to our sense that towns, while they didn't like this, they wanted flexibility as to how to do it. One way they can do it is they could put in a in their contract that all housing has to have a covenant that runs with the land and then it's just they're not doing it. It's just happening because it's in the contract. If I'm a developer that I'm the one they have a contract with and I'm the developer, then I put the when I sell houses or land houses that come in But I also we wanted to allow municipality, if this was a municipality that wanted to adopt ordinance to do it and enforce it, could, but it doesn't have to. So that's why the phrase if the municipality so elects was put in, just to give them an option. It just runs with the land, and the question of who enforces it down the road if, you know, their sign neighbor wants to complain about it, then the town could enforce the covenant. I think there'd probably be a private right of enforcing that. You

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: don't need language that says provide terms, remedies, or a municipal ordinance for it to be flexible. What we have done at the end is and that you seem to have accepted is

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Sorry. The sub b is actually an error on my part. Meant to delete that. This was trying to consolidate into one section. You're you're talking about Subdivision B on Line 19.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Right. Or

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: That page. Gone. I just texted Cameron to

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: rental housing?

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Yeah. Because it's now being brought together in the house's proposal. It's that either owner occupied Yep.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I'm just going for a minute. Just a minute. So is Big sold and offered. I know we're saying this, but I still wanna look at your life. I don't think I could. Offer exclusively has been retired.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: It's the Previso.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Provided that this competition can be satisfied. The one thing we could do here could you go back up? Yes. Okay. I don't have any objection. I don't know about anybody else. I hate to do this on the fly, but we're trying to reach conclusions. I have no have no I objection just to say provide that.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: The second part, our Just no.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: The second v is gone. See, what we've done is we've combined a and b. You had an a and b. We combined them into one. And if you're worried about the words provide terms and sufficient remedies or if the municipality so elects, etcetera, we can strike all

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: of Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We just put provide that, any housing unit with it, etcetera.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Oh, okay.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: But within the structure, it's a housing infrastructure agreement. Yeah. Right? It clearly identifies who is the developer. Within that agreement,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: it's providing agreements provide that. Mhmm.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Yeah. And if you I mean, I suggest, but it's not critical to me that you keep the condition as satisfied by a landlord certificate or homestead declaration because that's currently the only way we know. I don't think it's a good idea to let a neighbor

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: as a primary residence. So But if there's

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Something's been changed.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: The next page Please over to the next page. That top of the page.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: This is what we do right now in the property transfer tax to ensure something is not being used exclusively as a second home. This is the only way we have to know that something's not a second help.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So you would add to the paragraph above. Mhmm. Let's go back again. So you He we would add I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale]: No. Was just gonna say, I think you're trying to say the sufficient remedy is the end of b.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yes. We could I'm just trying to language this. We could just combine them and say, the semicolon, then go back, we could put provided

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Provided that this condition may be satisfied.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Are you with me, John?

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Oh, yeah.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yep. He's right.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: So just the highlighted language, the bulk of the highlighted language now.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Did you wanna make the change to the first clause there? So it would just be provide that any housing unit within the housing development be offered exclusively as a primary residence, etcetera, provided that this condition shall be satisfied by I would say May. Right? It works either way. Works that.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I like May.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I think that answers our needs. Okay.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Okay. Our

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: first Somebody who's my official memory, remember this.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Spoken.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Next piece we come to is the Buckwhore test. This is on page eight. The earlier senate proposal was to have exempted from the above court test, probably to satisfy the affordability criterion. What the house is proposing is something slightly narrower. You'll note that the affordability criterion includes both affordable housing developments and moderate income housing developments. This is saying we could exempt those that are affordable housing developments. So not the moderate, but it would exempt, from the above four test those that are affordable housing developments. The next thing is the project criteria. We have this dual pronged structure for a floor area threshold, and then this alternative for determination meaningfully addresses the surface of

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: the on page 11? Page nine. No.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Sorry. Nine.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: And the threshold the senate proposal had been 51%, down from the 65% that the house had before, and then the senate isn't sorry. The house is now proposing 60%.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And I'll just add that we we really I mean, our intent here, I guess, probably even wasting my time since it's obvious. Our intent is really to make sure that it's mostly housing, but the two paragraph, subparagraph two, we felt really gives enormous flexibility. Instead of that, that's our We're afraid that 51, it sounds like it's commercial, it could be used just as easily commercial as housing and we didn't want it. So 60 plus the flexibility, that's what's behind our purpose. Plus the flexibility too. Yeah.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I just point out, you can have a commercial downstairs and a residential upstairs, and that's probably gonna be common in rural areas. But With the second provision, not a hill that I

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yep. Okay.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: I'm gonna jump down to page 11. Ten and eleven. Yep. And the thing to note is something you don't see highlighted. House is agreeing to the flat ninety day from site visit. On page 11, some conforming changes on lines four through six. That's that carved out from the above board test, just the affordable housing development. So you need to pick up that language here. Something you aren't seeing highlighted is on line nine.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I'm seeing it.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: The CHIP final application deadline is 2035.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So I agree to that.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: And then what you do see here is reinserting the house, or the house is proposing to keep its proposed limit.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Well, at first, I saw twenty thirty. That's a busy

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: guy's alone and goddamn. This

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: limit that you see here is structured differently just for readability purposes. The same limit that has been in the House proposal along what is new is on page 12, subdivision three, which is just asking Pepsi in 2030, after your first years of implementing, to come back to the committees of jurisdiction with a recommendation on an appropriate limit based on what the annual approvals have been for the program in the first years of the program. I just want to put

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: a little more color on that. We were trying to make it relatable, for some of the house members. If there was a housing project that then discussed about 60 to $80,000,000, that I think we all know about, anywhere from a thousand to 1,500 units, depending on which configuration to look at. Over the lifetime, that increment, that increased increment, increased value would have an increment retention of about $17,000,000, just to put it in perspective. It

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: would Very good percent.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: Now, we're at a 60% originally when we looked at it. So it could have a higher increment retention. But just to look at the large investment that that project represents and what the increment is over. So if you say seven, even say it's 20,000,000 over a twenty year period, then that's still 20,000,000 left in the approval of the cap.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Yeah. Quite too long. No.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale]: I've I've been racking my brain around the cap. You know? I get a nice hour ride home each night, so I get to think about a lot of things. Previously, before I was in finance committee, was on education when I first got here and then ways and means. Education fund near and dear to my heart. All the mechanics of the education fund, I was just thinking about how does this cap work if we're talking about retention in these TIF areas. And I kept coming back to twenty, thirty percent of something is better than 100% of nothing. So I always kept coming back to that. I'm thinking about if you get past the but for that these developments wouldn't come to fruition without this financing, that we wouldn't have the housing where people can move to Vermont, work in our jobs that are open, and, you know, spend money on our stores, spend money on our restaurants, buy cars and trucks. All those are consumption consumption taxes, and those all go to the Ed Fund. So those are all monies that would kind of backfill that TIF retention. And I just feel like we shouldn't limit the growth of housing based on the cap. So that's kinda where I am when I was trying to figure out forty, fifty, 60, no cap, is that there's other parts that are in play with the consumption taxes in the Ed Fund. And like we saw in the chart yesterday is that the Ed fund actually got a $160,000,000 that wouldn't have been there.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. If it wasn't for Chip.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale]: Yeah. So I just keep coming back to cap. Yeah. Or Chip. Yeah.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: The chart was I

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: think I was thinking about chip Jessica.

[Sen. Kesha Ram Hinsdale]: So I just keep coming back to these housing projects wouldn't happen without the infrastructure. So we wouldn't have that money anyway.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: Yes. And there is always philosophy that those developments might happen somewhere else. So it comes down to that, don't you care?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Another state.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: Or it comes down to that philosophical difference. And if you ask Tom Kabat, you'll get a much different answer in terms of the state of our legislative economists. So, I understand your perspective. And what we're saying, all right, we even put in here in the next section, let's revisit the cap in five years. And say, do we need to increase it? And so, we've already got a $5,000,000 booster. If Pepsi finds that 70 or 40,000,000 isn't enough to come back and say we need $5,000,000 extra. But so, I mean, we hear you that it may not be enough. So let's try to do that.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: So we figured ways and means wouldn't be sympathetic to brandless growth. So we have an alternative proposal, which is that we exempt affordable and moderate housing projects from the cap.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Right. And we went halfway there.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: You didn't go there. That was the but for test. This is the cap.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: This is the cap. We're proposing

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: that the cap exclude. Affordable and moderate. Affordable and moderate. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: It's not been in any of our proposals.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: What does that mean?

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: That is not something that we This

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: study hasn't been in any of the proposals.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: We haven't brought that forward as a proposal to you. It's not something I think that we'd be willing to agree on.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Did you ask your converse that?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: We have discussed it, and this offer doesn't have it in. We're really at the point now where we all know what everybody's thinking, and we thought about this and talked about it, and in this offer, it's not here.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: So in this offer, you're you're offering a revisit in five years.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I know. And we had taken out the cap every time. So we're trying to offer a very halfway position.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: You could live with a cap with these kinds of things if we exclude exactly. Alright. That's really valuable to know. Thank you.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Right. That's I thought we well, actually, we have to share that.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. But we'll

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: We hadn't

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: shared that. Now We're all sharing things that we hadn't

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: quite decided. We're now

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: asking lower by hand.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: But it's obviously come up throughout the process, and I think you have a lot of sympathy for that from your own were ways and means perhaps.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: There were discussions really early on. We talked to some affordable housing advocates, and the concern was that the cap wasn't high enough. But then when we actually crunched the numbers and showed what the retention was involved in the cap, that alleviated some concerns.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: In some of those concerns.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: No. So you know our

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I was just giving you history.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: But we appreciate the five year review.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: And we know you're going to consider this. Yes.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: And also Yeah. I mean, wasn't on the table.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: And Now there's scones on the table,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: if don't I've already had mine. Thank you very much. Is there more?

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: There is more. Next piece to jump to is the increment retention percentages, which will be on page 16.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: That's That's getting better.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: So the the latest we had seen in the in a proposal for the various retention percentages have been 7590%. And what you see here is 7080%, which is a change from the house's earlier position of sixty five and eighty. So bringing up standard projects to the 70% where the project is currently we are with affordable projects eligible, but it's 80%.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So it sounds like yeah. You didn't want to

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: lift the cap. We don't want to go below 75. Here we are. Can you bring it all into consideration?

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Info reporting. I'm going to page 19. I think the sole update to the annual report is what you see highlighted at the bottom of the page on line 19, adding that that report should include the aggregate lifetime education property tax increment retention that is approved that year. That's a figure that would be available under this contract. We'll do half the cap in place. And so it would just let you know what are you actually approving in a year in total lifetime extension.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: We have to come back and approve this every year.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: This isn't something you approve. This isn't

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: just the report. Couldn't this be incorporated into your annual report?

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Oh, approved by vaccine. That is another yearly.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: You have to do. Put it in there.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Annual report. That stuff up. Doesn't

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: make any sense.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. I mean, it's just it's just it's part of it's addressing in part the concern that seems to be on both sides of the table. Where are we with this cast?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: And where are we with these projects? Think they're just all new.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: A change you're not gonna see highlighted oh, I should talk about what's highlighted first. You see some strangely colored highlighting. I'll let you guys speak It's to strange.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: It's just

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: dark and hard to read.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I'm just I'm ready to let this one go. People may see many. Yeah. Yeah.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: So leave as is?

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: No. Take it out.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Take it out.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Are we okay figuring it out, guys?

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: So you Yeah.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: You know, it's interesting looking at the TIF report. It does this almost already, but not not specifically to housing within that project. So you're right about

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: that. Yeah.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: That's yeah.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: But but

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: But they can do that in a couple of years. So we'll keep in touch with TIFF.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: It's helpful to know even within that project by the parcel number what the valuation is in that. And that's possible. We're already dealing with TIFF.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Right. I was trying to get more specific.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. Which is why Jess was able to tell us that South Burlington development, the TIF district, its value is from 52%. Yeah.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Right. Gobsmacking.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: Actually, we're taking that out.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. Yeah. Just told Cameron. Taking 11 out. That's okay. Can't read it.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Rule making, page 22. Yeah. Probably looks larger than it is. This accedes to the Senate request for November 15 deadline for that guidance, but ask that it be published at that time and provided to the committees of jurisdiction. The last change is the TIFF sunset section. Obviously, the health proposals have contained this section, this section 27, which starts on page 27, but the actual highlighting is on 28. The previous health proposal had been for this, TIP district sets out to be 2031 aligned with the earlier house request for the CHIP final application deadline at the 2031. Now you're seeing that aligned with the CHIP final application deadline of 2035. And that is it. And keep being real, I need to leave, and I'm gonna let Cameron do whatever he's

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. We actually have a few pieces that

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: we haven't discussed yet. Okay.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: And I just sent him the things that we talked about. He's already made the changes.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: You, John.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Thank you

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: so much, John. Good luck. Good luck.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: What are you without going into them yet, because I'm on the military side, what are you what do you guys wanna talk about?

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: On this or anything else?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I think we just wanna make sure we go through the new language that Cam is gonna present, which we didn't actually have time to do before. And then I think we probably need to talk.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Well, do you want us to list out the the studies, the

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Right. The meetings of Fluctuate?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Number one, that we will go along with you on just postponing the whole appeals. Okay? Thank you. Two, there regret it's with real regret, I have to say, the moment, enough complexities have emerged with the universal design study that I don't see resolving the timeframe we're talking about, which is immediately It's really regretful since it's been in our it was in all our bills in the budget everywhere, but there have emerged problems, which I do not see resolving today, and I think we are at the end. I wanna resolve things today. So I think we're gonna have to let that go.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: I would just say if Elizabeth is watching, there's an open seat on the access board for division of fire safety. It really does look like the constitution that she wants, and I would hate something else to be happening.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So There are other things happening too, which is what is influencing me. So let's just say Okay. Now a great regret. The heart of the sausage. Okay.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: And Elizabeth and Mike are in touch, which is good because the boy

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: isn't opening. Okay. So I don't know how maybe the b a. I'm not sure what we got. Okay. We'll be

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: 15,000 extra dollars. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: The TIFF sunset is out? Sorry.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Sunset is twenty thirty five.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: They moved the TIF sunset to twenty thirty five.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: So made it should've kept it till terminus. We moved all the sunsets to twenty

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Oh, sorry. I missed that part.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Twenty thirty five. We thought that was good. We thought

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Okay. We'll have a conversation. Now,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: do you want is there there language, given what I just said? It's housing language, because we just need to confirm it. You have. The the number two.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yes. Fine. And has new language. Have you've seen it because we gave it to you this morning. It's fine. And I think that there's one other piece that you had in the infrastructure.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: That's one

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: of keys.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Yeah. Housing targets.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: That's fine too.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Okay. We'd like to use what we've asked for.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: Oh, never mind. We

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: don't wanna

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: have a fall out.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Unless you have your parachute with you.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I thought we would want

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: to open the window, but someone's sitting on the window. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Thought there was some kind of like I'm sorry.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I want to just bring up a cup of tea. While everybody's here. It does not relate directly to the subject of this S 127. But if 4 9479, had the whole section on Credit credit scores. Okay. It is our my intention with the permission of my fellows here to strip everything out of 479 except that, including the stuff on Stormwater. Stormwater.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Stormwater. The goes out. Yeah.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: All that's left is just that one provision. Introduce it tonight as an amendment to four ninety five. Get it out of the house tomorrow, over to you tomorrow. Is that okay?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. What's 495?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: I mean, it's 479. It's it's the house

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: as well.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Tomorrow evening.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah. Tomorrow, we're gonna do it. Yeah. Tomorrow tomorrow morning. All passage. All stages of passage.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Over to you.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you. Alright.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: And actually, we only have to vote on it once.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Yeah, because it's your counter. We're gonna need co chair, we're gonna need a somehow get together for a straw poll. I don't know if you need

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: On April,

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: you got things too. Got the whole thing from the developmental disorders. Yes, but our committee got kicked out, so we're

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: trying to make sure they still get some.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: Okay, Should we is it perfect for us mutually to take a break Yeah. Right now and come back in what?

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: The March. Did you hear from Ashley?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: +1 26.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Oh, let me see. I I have my silence. I'm being good,

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: you know, trying to be a good job.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: That's +1

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: 08. Yeah. +1 08. Ashley. Sure thing. Yes. So our bill is gonna be up. +1 22 is gonna be up first. There may be some debate, but we could be back here probably by 03:15.

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Okay.

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: 03:15 it is. We That's good.

[Sen. Thomas Chittenden]: May I send this conference report to our editing team to have it edited?

[John Gray, Office of Legislative Council]: Or Did you

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: miss anything? The VHFA thing, is that gone?

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: The VHFA thing is out.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Okay. So we've taken care of everything now.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: I think all of this chip things we've taken care

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: of. The VHFA is out.

[Rep. David Weeks (Clerk)]: Let me just look at left on chip.

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: Let me just look at my nonchip list to make

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: sure that I think we're I keep losing pens. Can I Yeah? Go to the back to

[Sen. Randy Brock (Vice Chair)]: And the housing, yep. I think we're in. And the date, yep, I

[Sen. Alison Clarkson (Chair)]: think we're all set. Okay. So you guys, March. Right? Yeah. Okay. We are we are in reset.