Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you so much. Good morning. It's Wednesday, March 25. Senate Agriculture is gonna get to have a brief discussion about, about, reporting our bill out today, but we might get to it. Hope so. Time for this bill to go to other homes across the aisle. Just wanna make sure that all of you are secure with what we're doing.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: So we very much financed it to you. Yeah. Is that

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: the one that's-

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I'm not ready Doctor. Is- That's four and five, we're just gonna skip over it. I'm going to fight that battle on the next round. We have another bill coming over from the house, and we're gonna revisit that, and we're gonna get there. Here's what I want. We have too much important stuff to get this bill tied up and to get a little floor fight with the the number one, as senator Collamore said, and I'm gonna reference that today when I'm all done, we had which is the right to get farming back 95% of where we're done. We need that. We need that. Farmers need that. Everybody needs that. I get the language. I agree with the language. We've spent a lot of time on the language, but we're not done with it. And I hear it. Well, that's two things we've

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: been bullied out of that agree. I'm very appreciative, and I don't know if the floor would feel the same way as Senator Hardy does about this. And I think it would go favorably, but you're the chair and that's what you

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: need Well, you'll be more about it?

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Are you talking four or five?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Or? Four or five, where's the 2,000 being as well, right? Two to five? That's further down, I think.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: That is 3. That's it? That's it?

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: 3 is it. 123. It's 4 5. It's 4 and 5? Mhmm. Right.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: But section three is Well, this this was on threshold for This was required for practice.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Because we have evidence to show that it isn't just affecting one person, it affects many. And the whole reason, I think you even said it on committee, I'm not 100% sure that it was because one senator believed that it was only benefiting one certain individual. And it affects a lot with the food shelf and that, and may even create a bigger generation that people are gonna donate more if they can use a write off saying, hey, I give this food, but also now I can use it as a write off. So just, like I said, if you wanna, if you think it's gonna come around and attach it onto

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Wait a minute, heard that I'm talking about. So are you referring to section six of the donation requirements? Yes, six. Okay.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay, they removed that. Do we have a new

[Senator Robert Plunkett (Member)]: They remove it? Or I thought it was four and five they removed. No, four and

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: five is requirements. That's construction. This was all about

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: the donation. Do we have a new sheet about how they've done

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: our

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: second

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: shift? Because I how about if I do this? Yeah. I'm prepared to do this. I'm prepared to go through one through seven. Okay. And then let them, say with their striking like they did yesterday with and I you know, like, I've had senator Clarkson said, I'd say, gutted the bill. So I I will will do whatever.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay, let's do that. Okay. If you're prepared to do that, we can get up and I can And just.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: It's our first year experience,

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: yeah, this. So for me, been

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: eye opening and sandy. And what I'll what I'll say is that Yeah. Six. Yeah. Six. What I what I'll say is, you know, that we understand it. There there are some amendments to to this by other committees. We'll let them

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: We'll let them dictate that because that's what happened yesterday when appropriations as, like I said, Senator Clamore said, got in

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: and hurt her entire thing,

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: and then go from there.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: I mean, I so So

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: What was the vote

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: out of finance on that? Was it six

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: zero? Brian, do you have your, do you have, can you pull it up on your computer? Which? The amendment that's on out of finance, what that vote was.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: I'm sure it was. Yeah, we took the testimony on it, and then it's just, it's no different than,

[Senator Robert Plunkett (Member)]: different

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: than solo, it's like, we took the testimony on it. All the stakeholders were like, this is something we all came to live with. And then obviously one stakeholder wasn't telling the truth right there.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Do you remember what today? Just go to today's. All the time. Go to the calendar today, and then click on the finance report.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: 23. That's new.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Give me one second here to scroll. Thank you. The other thing that a props took out was sections twenty four and twenty five. Those were the two But I

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: wanna I wanna keep on reporting that because I talked they're gonna keep on talking about that. That doesn't mean that one isn't dead.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Okay. So let's see. I don't know why this won't all of a sudden.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: All the way down to the bottom. Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Yeah. I know. It doesn't do it like it should.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Okay. We're getting. The

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: finance committee vote was five zero two. The two round. The strikeout section, The two instances of amendment that they changed in section three and four didn't do anything except redefine the word enrolled, if you remember. So it doesn't change anything. It just defines it better. The third one, instance of amendment, is to strike out sections five and six. It's five and six. Land use, value of appraisal. Mhmm. And that vote was five zero two. Then it went to a pros.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Now they renumbered. Where'd you get this list?

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: I got I got it from, like, Alan.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay. So so then what they've done is they've renumbered Yeah. They've renumbered some stuff.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Oh, well, I'm gonna go from the original thing that Bradley sent us. So I'm thinking I'm doing sections eight through 16, but maybe Well, it's it's still be

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: I I'm that's because I'm done at seven.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Alright. Okay.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. I'm done at seven, which is milk.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: K. So I'm gonna go get a full calendar and see how they have it in the calendar. Yeah.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: I just looked online and got it Okay.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I'm gonna go get it from my calendar. I wanna continue to talk about that.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: So So I yeah. I mean, I I am more than willing

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: to go ahead and say five and six. As a compliant requirement, the landowners qualify for current use through donation crops must keep receipts or proof of donation, maintain records for three years, and provide them upon request the overall affected and ensures accountability verification and tax, and for tax program eligibility. I mean,

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Let me see if I can find the comment.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Then

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Folks and insight that it's not just about Okay.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: And five, the land use value appraisal of current use definition under the bond's current use program. Key updates, it clarifies the donation, that donation farm crops count towards this pit. And then six is the proof of diligence required. So it really is five and then six sets.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: And in the calendar, this strike all amendment, and it's still in the five and six. Yeah, Still in

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: his pocket. And I just took it off the calendar. So

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: And that seven is still in there? No. Yeah. And then I start with eight. Yes. So oh, yeah. Yeah. That is

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Other than that, things are great. Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Oh, we're still online. Yeah.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: But I'm saying No.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Well, I just

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: this don't say anything that isn't pertinent.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Well, haven't said anything yet. Just trying to decide which sections we're talking about. We're still on.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah, I figured we were. We're about to go to do something?

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: I think he went to check to to clarify the

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: I looked at the calendar. This is strike all amendment that we did on the bill. And in the calendar, it still has five and six in it.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Can you direct Linda to Linda, can you, what do we print out for tonight? Far as everybody should have a copy of what we're doing.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: From the journal?

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yes. Let's, Well, it'll be in the calendar. Well, okay.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: So I

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Can we get some calendars for you?

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Could you do that? Sure.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: And I just went off the calendar and so, I'm on. Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Bradley's saying it's still in effect, because it does have the right sections, at least according to our strike policy.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, here's what bothers me a little bit, is that it was corrected in appropriations to renumber on what they did. So let's go to that. Let's go to

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Well, it's actually fine it's a good.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, but I'm also talking about the renumbering language came from Finance. Finance. I mean, from appropriations on '25 and '26.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Thank you so much. Well, went to finance first, so if they renumbered it

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, didn't go, appropriations did, but So you look at the appropriations report on October.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: The bottom of page 11 o three is where the finance committee struck out five and six and renumbered the remaining sections. 11 o what what what page? 11 o three. But then on 11 o four, you're right. The appropriations committee also took out sections twenty four and twenty five and then renumbered the remaining sections to be numerically correct. So I don't know where that leaves there isn't any printing of the new numbers. Because I I was looking for that. Yeah.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Doesn't exist. And you know what? It actually because I went upstairs, put something in my desk, and I looked at what they have, and they have paper copy, and they have the ads introduced. Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Which isn't any good anymore, So

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, why don't we go off the calendar? Yeah. It's all there.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yep. It is all there. Yep. And I I did mine off of you know, my summaries off the calendar.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So let's just go off we'll just go off the calendar.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Yep. Yeah. '24 and '25 are still in. So it's '5 and 6.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: What happens when I start chopping up your bill? That's great confusion.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Yeah. Get 90,000. So we're gonna go off the

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: calendar, okay? K. So if we go to page ten forty five, ten seventy six, ten seventy six.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Oh, I'm sorry. Ten seventy six. So if we

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: go to page ten seventy six, at the bottom of the page, it starts. Yep. Then we just keep running on going. Yep. Senator Major's got a report one through seven. Correct? Correct. And then let's just make sure that everybody else's sections are what we thought they were gonna be.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Oh, he's gonna do one

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: I thought you were doing one through three.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, we we were gone, but that was before we, I'm not prepared now, and senator Major is. So Oh, They had cut out five and six, and senator Major was gonna do that. He had nothing to report. And so now Yeah. So now we're gonna just have him go one through one through seven. Okay.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: So you're gonna do the

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: So I'm still I'm still gonna do five and six.

[Senator Robert Plunkett (Member)]: Okay, yep.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: And I'll have, was it appropriations or was it the Finance. Finance. Finance.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: You guys know who to yield to? Yep. Everybody knows how to, what we're doing? Yeah. What

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: page are we measuring?

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: 76, it starts off. Ah, Page four, gotcha. Yeah, I'm leaning or yielding a pumpkin. Ready?

[Senator Robert Plunkett (Member)]: And it plunked.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And all you could do is the effective thing. Right. Well, I'm gonna have a little chat.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Well, we need so my sections now are

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: 24 through 30. That's changed? Yeah, it was 24 through 30.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: But you were doing permitting large farms, right? Yep. Okay, so that's still the same. 24. Yep. And 25. Okay. And then you've gotta do the hemp, right?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Yeah, man. It's in. Now we can relax. You know what? I should have brought a tie dye. You

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: know? Yeah.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: You got some Benninger's. Yeah. Fixing a fish or Grateful Dead playing in the background.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Fluids lose its mind. Okay,

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: so here we are. So you guys know I'm all about the committee, and we have a senator who is bothered by what they've struck out. I ain't got say that I'm bothered as well. Think we're all bothered. We can have a discussion about that when the goes, we'll just report it out. And I'm gonna ask for a straw poll vote at the moment. And we can fight that amendment on the floor. Senator Heffernan, do you want to use your words?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Yeah, I can use my words.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Do you want to- It's going

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: to have somebody seeking to the site.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah, it's okay, but do you want to do that?

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Yes, yes. I gotta get some more verbiage from, but I'd be happy to do that.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So then let me ask a straw poll vote amongst the committee members. We'll ask Rob when he jumps on. Is the committee in favor? I'll ask the committee who's in favor of arguing against the finance amendment, strikeout five and six.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: The only thing I don't wanna do is just what you said in the beginning. I don't wanna jeopardize the rest of the bill over this. Is it something we could talk about, and if it, if we end up having to say, okay, we're gonna go with that amendment, if it passes on the floor, then you just carry on?

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: I don't think it will because we will, when we vote, we'll vote on the particular amendment. They don't make the amendments for those particular so we'll vote on those particular amendment. I don't think it has any bearing on the the bill as a whole because the because we'll vote on any amendment that happens, and then we'll vote on the bill as a whole. I think the bill as a whole will go through without it. So if you you feel strongly about that. But if we shoot that amendment now, then do we have

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: to turn around and put six back in?

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: No, it's already in, it's not taken out of the calendar. Okay, it's

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: not, yeah.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Right, it's not taken out of the calendar, the amendment would take Oh, it The amendment would take it out.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Right. I'm very cool with that. And that, at least lets the floor decide to make Judge McCollamore. Yeah. So

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: you have to have a compelling argument. Yeah.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: It'll be compelling.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah. No, let me ask. Go ahead, Brian.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: I think the best way to handle maybe both, because there's an appropriations amendment as well

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: chronologically- Let me tell you about the appropriations amendment from the discussion that I had, and I think that you were there.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Yep, I

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: was. They're having more discussions about all of that stuff, and it is in the government's budget. This isn't like what happened to Senator Clark's bill, they got his I chuckled at her yesterday about that. I think that that's going to survive. I do think that they're going to take more testimony on that, and I do think that's survived, so I'm not gonna argue that. We can, as far as the appropriations part.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: No. You're not gonna win that. Right. Let Andy stand up and move to strike 24 and 25, which are the fees for the LMO and MFO pharmacy. They're out of the bill now. They won't get relief 2,500 depending.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And I can get up and ask him point blank after, when he do that, I'll ask him now, this, I just want to make sure, and I can ask them and I will, does this make this null and void out of our bill, or is there going to be further discussions, because I know there's

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: going to be, is there

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: going to be further discussions moving forward to whether this could happen or not?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: So they felt it was gonna make a

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: big enough impact on state funds, that they About 300

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: or $400,000 It's not a lot, and according to, and again, Russ and I had the advantage of being in the chairs meeting yesterday. He said that it creates that amount of hole in the budget, which they can backfill at some point if they can find some other revenue. They intend to fully put those exemptions back in so that those farmers will indeed Well, enjoy the house has already finished their

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: think it would be through their budget process. So

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: I would let that one go if Russ wants to make I'll clarifying. Make chronologically, the first one that will stand up will be the finance report. Beck's gonna do the finance report, which is fine, but I think, again, the chair could stand up and say, the committee felt strongly, unanimously, that there are several farmers who donate back to their communities with respect to produce that's grown and are just seeking relief from taxation that most other people that donate things receive. And that sort of blunts the argument that it's a singular farmer that is going to be a beneficiary of this. I think there's more than just that person.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: When I was thinking about amount of money that it affects.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: I I it I don't know

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: that we took, right, testimony from the tax department,

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: but but I think what

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: it does It does seem significant. And see, the reason I'm asking But

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: we're feeding people.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. And the reason I'm asking is because that that's what both

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Hardy when I, you know, confronted them. That's what Hardy and, Chris Matos kinda came at me. So,

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: this this would adversely affect our tax our our taxes. So I I just didn't think it was that that that significant. Right. You know, of a number of, now what you could do, now I didn't fully vet this out, but what they could be saying is if you do it for one subsection, could other subsections go, well, you're doing it for farmers, why can't you do it for tax? I don't know.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: But I think you have to look at what the public good is. The public good is we're just trying to feed more people. We're trying to feed more people, and lots of times it is because it comes from imperfect vegetables, right? The ones that actually aren't getting marketed because they might have a blemish on it, that might not be sellable, we're just opening the avenues to get more food into the systems. And so yeah, we recognize that this is a new category, but we do believe that it will feed more people. So I can kind of say that, and

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: I can yield the floor

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: to Senator Heffernan from the Addison District.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Are you good with that? Working on it right now.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay. Verbiage. Classic Committee to Struggle. Who is in favor of fighting the amendment for finance? Everybody. Yep. Okay.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Yep. Right.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, I'll ask, I'll ask Senator Plunkett.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: And it's a if the amendment passes, then Right.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: It is what it what it is.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I'll ask you monkey with it later. Right.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't say that. Reconsider. We're good here. And I don't want to fight, I'd just say

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: not support the amendment. Right.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Right. Because we feel it's important

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: that we continue to feed our communities And encourage nonprofits to donate more.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Because they gotta keep all the records.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Isn't Mike Right, no, it's Right. I donated $250,000 So you might get some questions on it.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: You're good with that, right? Okay.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: And if I'm not, I will say, you have slight resets. Yeah, there

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: you go. I've learned that.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And that works for everything.

[Senator Robert Plunkett (Member)]: Okay. And I'll say, before we

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: have a slide here, if there's any other questions? I think that it.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: Is everybody good? Yeah. And there's no checking my stuff there too to make sure. Once you're set there, we're done.

[Senator Steven Heffernan (Clerk)]: Excuse me? Once you're set

[Senator Brian Collamore (Member)]: from work, we gotta Yeah,

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: we gotta do, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let me just ask you, everybody comfortable? Yeah.