Meetings
Transcript: Select text below to play or share a clip
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Good morning. It's Thursday, March 12. We are going to spend some time today talking about S-three 23. We're starting to tie up loose ends, and we don't have council until 11AM, but we have a fresh draft of 03/23. We have people coming in the room and out of the room and thumbs up, thumbs sideways, thumbs down, telling us where we need to get or what we need to do, and hoping that we can get there. For the most part, it's all positive. It looks like we're gonna be able to go with the cannabis control language as far as regulating health, And looks like through a lot of hallway conversations and talking and all that, that we've got agreements that everybody can live with this bill. Some people that are unhappy with it haven't. I will be honest about that, that probably they haven't had enough conversation with us because we can help them get through where they're not happy. And that's a lot to do with this bill. We're working really hard to just get our language right and get our people right, get everybody feeling comfortable and let them know that we're not doing anything nefarious with anyone. And we have a 48 page bill as it stands right now. We just got the final draft of 3.2. We're getting close. My wish was to vote this bill out today. I don't know if we'll get there, but we're definitely voting tomorrow online. So I have Peter Sterling in the room. Anything you'd like to chat with us about? Just here? Okay. How are we with you, sir? Tell us who you are.
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: I'm Peter Sterling, executive director of renewable energy. I appreciate that you seem to be moving to remove the section that would prevent solar on large one to five acres. And we still have concerns with the additional requirements you want to put in the CPT process around the creative grave audit. There's serious concerns we have with that.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So do we remove the most of that? Yes. I we did yesterday.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Thank you.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: We just I just want you to and that and that's a big thing. And I'm I'm not picking on you in any way perform. I want a partnership with you, and I wanna make sure that when we remove that, we have I think do you have time to go over that language? Sure. Come up to the table, please. Alright.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: It's on page 12. On page
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: says Glenn, do you have another copy?
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: Thank you so much. Yep. Alright. Brendan is the best. Good. Page 12.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Rob, would you help us with it? No. This is just what we had talked about. The the first two yellow sections are limiting. It's just when it's primary ag soils. It's the lighting which that we got for on engineering firm. The third highlighted section, I wasn't quite sure exactly what we wanted with that. I'm not I'm not sure if that's necessary since it's just saying it's
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I I don't mind I don't mind that in there. Yeah. But
[Unidentified Committee Member]: if yeah. It says that they have to comply with what's already the law. Right. So but, you know, in well, like I said yesterday, this isn't something that'll cause me to to go against this long. But I, you know, I think we'll hear from Tina, but it's also a question sometimes because we don't we have not heard from the engineering firm, and we can give any details about this. I don't know if you're just licensed and some other Licensed professional engineering. Right. And I emailed with Helen about this. Okay. That's what That's what she has very Well, I'll say this. This is obviously a tremendous improvement in as
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: far as fairness to making the process quicker, which is cheaper. If if an engineering firm is able to use a generic kind of you know, it's not a proportional situation, which doesn't seem to be, that is a big improvement because the PC already does this kind of analysis, so this seems to be just reinforcing what the PUC would already be doing as part of the CPG process of being explicit in-depth. If that's an engineering firm's able to just pull a generic number from NREL, the National Energy Laboratory, there's no harm done. Right. Those numbers are out there, and we all know they point in the right direction, and that's gonna satisfy concerns. And as you've expressed, this will make sure people are backing up what they say they're doing, and it's gonna work out. This this seems to be much improved. I would certainly both need to really talk to one of the engineering firms we all you know, our developers work with, make sure that this is done. You know, there isn't something that I'm not thinking of right here on the spot, but this seems, you know, significantly better, I must say.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I think you answered it when you said that if they already do this process on a generic, we haven't made it so that it has to be specific. Yeah. I just
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: wanna, I'll say it on recognizing you and I've had conversations. I've actually had conversations with Pete Berg about it. I've had conversations with everything. I've said it over and over and over again. The only thing that we're asking is to do everything you can do to stay out of our frontiers. That's all we're asking. And we don't wanna get into your business. We don't wanna expose your business. We don't wanna tell people that we think it's right or wrong. We don't wanna do all that. All we're asking is for every effort that you guys can make, please stay out of our front tooth. That's all we're trying
[Unidentified Committee Member]: to do. The the prime thing.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: The prime angle. The prime thank you for that correction, because there has been even we even gave some push we even gave gave some up on that as far as the way we are designated it prime angle. So, it's all we're asking for here. Thank you. I appreciate you letting me
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: give the opportunity to, win against this.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Very, very, Very much appreciate it.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: No, and we appreciate it too. We appreciate the working relationship and that's what we're looking to do is not to be the hammer to anyone. Just wanna, we wanna work in partnership with everyone and get everybody to, you know, to kumbaya moment.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Kumbaya.
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: Thanks a lot.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you. Okay. Does anybody want to go I mean, we've let council committee here to go over some of that, you know, this bill. Is there any part of it right now that anybody's got any concerns that they woke up at 03:00 this morning and thought about before I let council come in? We have some other work we can do. Wasn't over this. No. I've looked at all the highlighted changes, and they all seem to be what we've yeah. Good. And and I excuse me. Yeah.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: As far as the the situation
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yep. You did I you
[Unidentified Committee Member]: know, obviously, we saw pepper in there a
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: little bit. You did it. That's kinda. I did. Yeah. I did. And and so let's talk about that live again. So we understand, it's a lot like what we've done in this whole building. It's a lot like how we worked with Peter's group and all that. All we're trying to do is solve some problems. The problem that we're trying
[Unidentified Committee Member]: to
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: solve on hemp is to get it to a structure to where the state of Vermont regulates hemp, producers, producers, growers, all of that, so that these people can do business outside of the state and the people that are signing contracts with the people have some knowledge that the state is regulating hemp in Vermont. So should there be a problem, it could be it. And that's really the gist of the language of it. And there's other things in there that people have concerns about. One are the fees. So talking about the fees. The cannabis control board has indicated that they'll move on that, but that isn't the big part of this bill. By the time that all of this passes and every gets everything gets back through, by the time any of that stuff is enacted, the legislature will be back in 2027 or 2000 yeah. 2027. They'll be back in action.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: And so that they can
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: take that on for right now. All it is right now is words on paper. I know less dangerous stuff, but this the gist of what we're trying to do is to get it so that these producers and these growers can sign contracts with national companies and those companies know that the state of Vermont is back with them in rulemaking. So the conversations are still ongoing. And as we've said the other day in the conversations that we had on screen, we have been clear as a committee where we stand, which is Woodford Farmer in the field as it's growing, and that we would love the cannabis control board to do with what they want to do as far as in the in the regulatory part of it. But that if we thought for one second that our farmers will be in harm harmed, that we would come in and we would write legislation. We'd write a bill. We'd try to get something packed to protect them. So that's how I see it. That's how I believe it. That's all the conversations that we've had. We had Pepper off screen just coming in and giving us the nod as we were as well. I would relay that to anyone. As I said in the chair's meeting the other day, if anybody's hearing from anyone of their constituents where we are with hemp and where that direction is going, please just get ahold of us. And I think that we can alleviate their fears. I know the two Rutland senators, I mean, the Rutland and Addison County senator have somebody that's been in the building that was on screen yesterday, and they're in the building yesterday. Again, I I can I think we alleviated some fears when he was in here, and I would alleviate some fears if we were having that conversation right here, if was back in here? That that we are we are we still have a lot of conversations to be had. Nothing's finalized other than we have built a structure that was, there was a hole where these people really couldn't sign contracts in good faith, couldn't grow in good faith, these people being the hemp producers, the hemp industry, they couldn't move forward without having some regulatory language that we are prepared to as well.
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: Andrew, sir.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Go ahead.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Chair, page 46. So the fees in that will be adjusted in the near future, and we're just gonna keep them
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I would say through That's
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: gonna stay in the build I would say it would stay in the build now, because we really haven't had enough time. Nobody's really had enough time to wear nobody's really had enough time to really sit down and see where they're at. I think if they're the fees that they have maintained. But, again, I'm going to point to the conversation that we just had with Pepper that before we got online was that they looking to adjust those as market conditions would be. They're actually looking to even accept some folks that are ingesting. It's going to be an ongoing discussion, but somewhere along the way you've got to start with something. Okay. And that just
[Unidentified Committee Member]: and that is We had talked about it, and Pepper was in here every part of that conversation, just that we're
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: gonna go with what is in the We're gonna go with what was in the bill, unless I have a senator in this room that feels very strongly that we don't. So I'm comfortable with the conversation that I've had that can, that this is still a works in progress, that once it leaves, once once we pass this, that it's still a works in progress. And if it's not, that's why I wanna reiterate again that it's not, By the time all of this gets determined, the legislature will be back in business and they will have the chance to adjust this in a way that your constituents are asking you to be adjusted. I feel strongly about that. I just don't think we have enough time to hear about One of the things we've done great
[Unidentified Committee Member]: And I agree with that, that statement. If we put to be determined that can I would
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: leave it the way that it was with the conversations that we have because, again, by the time Yep? This stuff gets all enacted, we're gonna be have back we'll be back in session before it is all enacted. And so Oh, some of us might be. Yeah, well, exactly. Well, don't know the will of the people, right? So it is what it is. I feel well enough to know, I feel well enough that we could pass this and that if there were some people that were very upset, we'd know about it, and the next legislators can
[Unidentified Committee Member]: act on it. Just know the productive side can just say, I got or the producer side that said I produce, you know, 30 different things. You know, is each one a $50 fee? I also, I'm happy with this.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Just no idea needs to be
[Unidentified Committee Member]: You're
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: reassuring people that there's been more discussion to be having. Okay, good. I feel strongly from Bennington, been working on this for a year, something that you guys may have been doing yourselves as well, but I've been very involved with this for a year. The partners that I've worked with, cannabis control board, the growers, the producers, everyone, there seems to be a good working relationship. It's very seldom that you have anyone coming up to you it's happened over and over and over again where they've said, we want to be regulated. We need to be regulated. And I just think that this bill this bill does that first and foremost. And then there's always other things that go on to it and that what they might not be happy with, there'll be a chance to adjust that before there's any harm that can be created. I also understand in my mind that there are a lot of companies that will not pay a fee to come into Vermont and that protects the market as much
[Unidentified Committee Member]: as anything.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So that's where I'm at. Anything else before Brian comes in? We can move on, we can pivot to some other stuff. What I'd like to break down, has anybody got, can everybody put their hands on this copy? Can I run down the conveyor room and bring mine back? Yeah. Absolutely. Welcome to that. All this is for dollars, and we have some dollars about where we're at.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: You have to know.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah. I can give you a copy. You wanna go? Yeah. I'll get a copy. Linda? Thank you, Linda.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: One second. On her chair. Stay in your eye. Okay, sure you're late.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you. Thank you, my dear. Some of this, we're going have to chase down some stuff as well. Some of the stuff has been what I know. Think Brian should know. We're still alive, so I'll just chat for a second. I doubt that I'd I'd like to vote this bill out today, and I doubt that we can because on section now it's section seven, which was section 10, we have to have natural resources to drive by. Okay. So, we have in front of us the, monies request. My thought is that some of this has been taken care of in the BAA, so so we're gonna have to probably track down a little bit of these dollars before we finalize it with the chair of appropriations. So I'm asking for some institutional knowledge of what's going on, or we're just gonna have to track it down and see if some of this has been satisfied. I'm trying to remember whether the numbers on the paper we have were requests or in the governor's recommended budget, and I don't remember. Well, I'm pretty sure that the pretty sure that the food banks got some money in the DAA. I'm pretty sure that the Conservation Districts have got some money, if not the whole amount. I'm guessing that there's probably three or four of these lists have been satisfied. Okay. But I guess what I'll do, I'll verify. I guess I'll track down Senator Perchley and Senator Norris or one of our senators to see if we can track some of that down.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Senator Scott Moore from JFO Senate letter of vote saying that the one he looked at the list and then I looked at the Adjustment Act.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yep.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: 1,000,000 general fund for direct aid to the Vermont Food Banks Network Partners' Food Shelf and Pantries through an equitable statewide distribution.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: As
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So 1,000,000 to the food bank?
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Yeah. And 900,000 general fund for a grant to the Vermont Food Bank
[Unidentified Participant]: for the Nevada speaking to other structures. Those were the two amounts in
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay. So point nine? Well,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: is it broke down two different places? What was the second one, Linda?
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: We ÂŁ900 general fund for a grant to Vermont Food Bank for the Vermonters feeding Vermonters to prevent
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay. That's Which one's that? That would be your thumb.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Oh, the food bank. So that must be, so, yeah, that's what one I'm point nine. Correct. Not 5,000,000 negative for holding. Right, yeah. And if I remember right, that's at least as far as what they have last year, not a little bit more. K. Okay. So
[Unidentified Committee Member]: What I don't see for funding requests is for S-six.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Right, and I wrote that on the bottom.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Is that that million Oh,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: sorry. Not
[Unidentified Committee Member]: a five. Okay.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: It's right out here. It says a million s 6. That's 31. Well So verbiage fix this a little bit.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Show you. Feeding Vermonters. That's part of the food bank. Yes. Ranching food bank. This is the BAA. They got 485,000 more than last year's budget. Okay. And
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: so up
[Unidentified Committee Member]: here on our list here,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: that's the food the food bank.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Yeah. Yeah. Overall, it's looking for five year.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah. I know I looked at that one. Because they take away
[Unidentified Committee Member]: for meals on wheels. Right. They replace some of the bag. Okay.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Why don't you start to start at the top of the list and maybe we can type in. Rob, you could help us find some of this maybe we go. Maybe. I don't know if it sends the seats.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I wish we had
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: the governor's recommendation next door. Okay. Can we get the governor's reco what can we do with that? How are we to get what if it's in here? We have this joint fiscal office, fiscal facts. No, no, that's probably the managerial law, though it does say '27. But this is FY '27. Right, it is FY '27. Probably the agency administration can at least give us what we had in the government's recommendation. Yeah. Well, we can
[Unidentified Committee Member]: line is these are these are the the things that we want to recommend. Right. Could be funded at their request. Right. If ever need discussion on that, then we can find out and
[Unidentified Committee Member]: send through to request these things.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: No. No. Exactly. Yeah. Okay.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: You remind me what the local food system is.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: It's probably something about school because it says districts and supervisors. Can see what's different from primary school. Well, why don't we we see if we can't flesh some of this out so we have some ideas about where we're at? Mean, the crop cash, crop cash plus. I know what those are. Yeah, we do. And I don't know if they were 500,000 watch here or 300,000. Why don't we see if we can't? We have until tomorrow, but why don't we start kind of working on this and seeing that we can see what their requests are and where it's at. We have all lobbyists in the building. We can find out where they're at. Let's do this in a smart way so that we're not just asking for dollars that we know and are in a tight year. So I think the only thing that I'm aptly, positively secure from that we know on this list is S-sixty. Are you guys all in agreement with the S-sixty part of it? We can check S-sixty. The other thing is we know that the food bank would like $5,000,000 but I'm quite happy that they are above and beyond what they got last year. It's a 1.9. I can say that faith would be happy with that. I don't want to say that unless I see everybody nodding their head in the right direction. Or would you want to be dealt with?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: We can ask, but when you get a little
[Unidentified Committee Member]: bit more than we had last night,
[Unidentified Committee Member]: we gotta be happy about that.
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: Particularly, it's where we're at.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: But I'm fine with the one point. Yeah.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay. So let's check that one off the list. Crop cash. They got $4.50, I believe, last year, and they're asking for 5. So 5 and 5, right? Yeah. Because they're asking for a million dollars. Yes. Okay, so Mahdi. Yeah. Let me speak to Mahdi. You're be emailed, man. Asking for Maddie to call me.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Was Vermont fairs gonna be pretty well set, or is that, yeah, that
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, we're gonna send that message out as well. And here we are. We have somebody I needed.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Thought I might be able to help.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay, so we're working
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: on some punter requests as far as it's come through the committees and we're just trying to figure out an award in the BAA and what's not. And just gotta make sure of the list and we can find out where, why, and what. Okay.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Make sure for Farm to School And possibly others, and conservation districts.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah, balance everything. Balance everything you know and who you advocate for, and help us, please. Yeah,
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: you can, If I just
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: you just both identify yourselves now, we can just talk.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Ag folks, Action Circles? Amy Schollerberger, Action Circles. And can I just clarify, you said BAA, so you're not looking for FY27 request, you're just trying to get a sense of what happened?
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, wanna talk about everything.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay, alright, you go first.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Yeah, so the Farm to School grants programs and the local food incentive, those are two different and distinct things. The Farm to School grants live in the Agency of Agriculture, and the local food incentive lives in the Agency of Education, as that is money that goes directly to school districts, or just local ingredients. Those are both in the Governor's, and I think, I do think these are, the list here for Conservation Districts, this is their request for FY '27.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Great.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: I believe all of these are. So, those two, the Farm to School grant and local food incentive, those are both in the governor's recommended budget. Okay. That 500,000.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Say that again, which one? Top of the of the So, they are on the
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: governor's So, we are just asking for support
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: for that. Thank you, okay. That's very helpful. Thank you.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Only other one that's mine is the Conservation District's.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yep, so I'll light us up with that one.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Great. In the Governor's recommend, they are in at $612,000 Last year, they also received that in their base budget and they received an additional $250,000 in one time dollars, and it is really important for them to preserve the services that they provide and backfill some of the
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Say that second part again, last year?
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Last year they received $250,000 in one time dollars, so the request this year is to fold that into their base, and then there's another slight lift, I think like a 2% increase on that based on needs that they have identified. They have really identified a need for this 09/8200, and we do have a breakdown of that number and how much goes directly to the 14 districts, and a small portion is held at the Natural Resources Conservation Council for administrative purposes of the council and as well to for part of funding for one time needs at the districts. So I can provide that breakdown if you would like.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: So the Governor's recommending six twelve?
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Six twelve total. And we are asking, the Conservation Districts you to increase that to 900
[Unidentified Committee Member]: So you need 330 So that's $6,000 right?
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: That's correct, it's
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Additional funding. The last year you got $612 and $250 Correct.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: And so you're, over last year, you're asking for,
[Unidentified Committee Member]: think that 80,000. Think, yes. My
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: bad. Something on there, yes. Just remind of the testimony you heard from the Conservation District, a big part of asking for that increase in their base is because NRCS staff have been cut in half in Vermont and they are the entities really responsible for continuing the services that were at the federal NRCS.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I mean, in that request, that would include to the, impart the house that
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: The main pen?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: No, there's
[Unidentified Committee Member]: a house that they
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: were And on a conservation, I think that's above and above and beyond.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Yes, that's something separate. Chair process.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: We're going to talk about that a little bit today in institutions with Gus Sealing as far as all that. Think our chair is out sick. I don't know if Rob's up. As vice chair, is going be running the meeting or she'll be online, but we will have that conversation this afternoon.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Great. Well,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: we thank you very much, very
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: very- Those are actually just mine.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Guessing, going out, and on we go, sorry, ages.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: So, you have listed here, Crop Cache and Crop Cache Blossus, I two separate
[Unidentified Committee Member]: might not just take it.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Hello, this is Russ, how can I
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: help check you, bye?
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay, hold tight, or I'm gonna call you back, okay? And I'm gonna put you on speakerphone in the committee, okay?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I'll call you back. Thank you. Bye. Yeah, it's bad.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yes. We're gonna send you a Hold on. Let me just Sorry, I apologize. No problem. Let me just
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Make your things happen.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah. I'm gonna get out here if
[Peter Sterling (Executive Director, Renewable Energy Vermont)]: I can send her
[Unidentified Committee Member]: a Zoom. So what do
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: you mean? I googled this. I'm hoping it's accurate. For the FY 'twenty seven Vermont budget, the Northeast- Can we send you a Zoom, right, where you can get on Zoom? Okay. Okay, let's set the Zoom on, we're just having some discussions, and we're gonna grab you after that, okay?
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Okay, sounds good.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Thank you. Thanks. Bye. Yeah.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay, sorry, Brian. That's okay. So it says the Northeast Organic Farm NOPA is requesting $500,000 in ongoing state funding to support Crop Cash, Crop Cash plus, and farm share.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Yeah, that's So it's all Yeah, so you have it listed but as it's just one request for 500,000 for all three programs.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I know.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: They Where's that one now?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: So that would be three and 4.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Yeah. Three and four.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And So instead of 5 a million So 500,000. No. Scratch one of them because it's all included in the 500. That's right.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So how would we So how are we guys what I'm saying?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: A million for both of them, but No. No.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: They only want 500,000.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: He's trying that's what he's trying to say, I think.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Thank you. She got what I'm trying to say. We have proper cash and proper cash plus as a billion dollars total. Correct. But I'm saying we only want one of them, the 500,000. So we're trying to send you,
[Unidentified Committee Member]: would just
[Unidentified Committee Member]: say it differently.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: 500,000
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: funds both. Right. Plus a third, which is called our chair. And together, NOPA calls all of that their local food security programs.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So which one would we ratchet up? Or tell us how we would label that? Right. Or Patty tell us when we get
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: that Yeah,
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: you would label it PropCash, crop cash plus, and farm share for 500,000.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: 500,000 total, thank you.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Sounds like a better deal.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: In FY '26, they were allocated $450,000 but it was one time money.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: So their request has been $500,000 for the past few years. Yep. So it just continues to be the same Okay.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: And from the Governor's record?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: It's not in the Governor's No, no, this isn't the top tier.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: It has never been in the NOFA. Oh, that's right. Yes,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: do. Is that the only other one you had, maybe?
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: No. Well, but wait, there's more. Yeah, wait, there's more. I'm most of this less than that. So the other NOFA request, as you know, that you might
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, let's, if we got Maddie, she's on the line, let's bring her right in because she's here to come on Zoom.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: So Maddie, we did,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: not yet. She's not on yet. Let's wait for her as far as the Should
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: I do the food bank in the meantime?
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: We already did that. We're pretty much on the food bank. Yes, but let's hear your Yes, let's hear you because you're here.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: So, the total request for the food bank is 5,000,000 and there's three buckets. Vermantras, feeding Vermantras is the bill you passed last year. It runs through the agency of Ag. The request for that is $2,000,000 and they were allocated in the big bill last year, 500,000 in one time money, and then in the BAA this year, it was $3.85 additional. So, they're, I can't do that math, but it's just shy of 900,000, I believe. But they still need 2,000,000 to adequately run the program. They have a $2,000,000 request, which is basically passed through to the network partners, which are the food shelves across the state that work with the food bank. And you might recall that there was an allocation in the fall during the SNAP crisis when the government shut down. There was a $250,000 allocation during that time, and then last year, the big bill, there was $1,000,000 allocated for VAGRA. So, that's a 2,000,000 request, and then the third, and that runs through, I'm sorry, the Agency of Human Services, and the 1,000,000 left is for what they're calling Ready Response, is a partnership with Vermont Emergency Management that they're hoping to build, and that is living right now in, there's a committee bill in House Government Operations and Emergency Management bill, and they have that abbreviation in that bill, so you might see it coming across.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Is Maddie on here?
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Yes. Hi,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Maddie. How are you?
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Maddie, we already did LFS, but we're looking at a list that doesn't include a farm security fund yet.
[Maddie Kempner (NOFA-VT)]: Okay, great. Thank you all for having me. Always happy to join the committee and sorry I'm not there with you in person. For the record, Maddie Kempner, NOFA Vermont. Do you want me to just go back over the farm security funds? Yes. Okay. Great. Well, our request for support for the Farm Security Fund for FY '27 is 15,600,000.0. I think I mentioned that when we first came in to just do our overview of priorities for the session. And to remind the committee that is based on the formula that is currently in the bill, which is the average of the previous three years of documented losses divided by two. And that includes both farm and forestry businesses since those are now in the bill as passed by the House and as you all concurred with yesterday. So 15.6 is the number that we are requesting for FY '27.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay. Next.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Okay. So What about
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I think we we've got a crop cash, crop cash plus.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Yeah.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And the the last is $500,000 total as far as on that. That's Amy's filled us in on that. That's all concurred with as far as with that.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: And then my last one on your list is working lands.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: So the working lands coalition is asking for a total of $5,000,000 I'm not sure where this very exact number came from, but the governor's budget has base of $1,000,000 and the Working Lands Coalition request is to add 500,000 to the base, and then 3 and a half million in the one time buffet.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And where were they last year, Haiti?
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Last year, the governor actually, last year recommended a million in base and 3,000,000 in one time, but only the million in base survived in the big bill. Okay. And I don't do the fares, that's Jackie, I believe.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yes, she's gonna jump on. Did she respond? I know she texted me. Jackie?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: She here.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: She got it with Zoom in, but she told me.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Who's your organ lens? That's me.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Was that the one that we, that, how many different affiliates are in that working plan?
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: In the coalition? Yeah. I don't know the exact number, maybe Maddie knows there's, NOFA is a member of the Working Lands Coalition, I think there's about a dozen organizations in that coalition. The conservation districts are a number, of the Vermont Sustainable Jobs Fund is a member.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Okay, that one, that brought up, sorry, that brought up where we saw money, what was the last one? Sustainable Jobs Fund. That they were collecting money on their own, plus when they were doing some other, they were collecting monies from another portion that we were giving millions of dollars to, and it's like, why is that money? Why aren't they asking for that money? Why is it going from one department into the other?
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: I'm not sure what you're talking about. I should have picked better notes.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I have it somewhere, but So, break down again, the It's not NOFA, it's Vermont Working Lands
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Coalition. Coalition. Yeah. And the lead organization for the Working Lands Coalition, that is Vermont Council on Rural Development. They were the original organization that worked on getting the original legislator to create the program. And they have been backboning the coalition ever since the program was created.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay. Maddie, go ahead.
[Maddie Kempner (NOFA-VT)]: I was just gonna chime in and let you all know the members of the coalition, if that's helpful. It's 14 organizations. It's VCRD, as Amy was just saying. It's the Vermont Association of Planning and Development Agencies, Vermont Community Loan Fund, Shelburne Farms, Preservation Trust of Vermont, Vermont Woodlands Association, Vermont Natural Resources Council, Vermont Sustainable Jobs Fund, Agrimark Cabot, Intervale Center, Conservation Districts, NOFA, Center for an Agricultural Economy, Vermont Land Trust, Woodstock Foundation, and VCRD, or the 14, just so you know.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you.
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Okay, so I just Steve,
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: can you get through what
[Unidentified Committee Member]: you I'll want work on it because I forget it was either through the Vermont loans fund that they gave the jobs people, I wanna say, a loan for, or grant of 50 or $60,000
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: So you might wanna have
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: Ellen to answer that, or Jake, because the Sustainable Jobs Fund runs several programs, and they do not run the Working Lands grant program. They're a member of the Working Lands Enterprise Board, which is the granting authority for the Working Lands program, but there's several members of that board through statute.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay, we're 600.
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: It's not a big
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: deal. I'm happy to connect you
[Unidentified Committee Member]: there, if you can remark that information. Thank you.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay, well, yes, it was Hold on one second, I'll just move
[Unidentified Committee Member]: it forward. Senator Plunkett brought back to my memory what it was. There was grantees through now whose system this was under which one? I know they got a $55,000 grant to do Vermont's strangled jobs fund instead to do a
[Unidentified Committee Member]: forest products development program. Working Lands Enterprise Initiative, this is their service provider through association of So
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: they have, in the Working Lands grant program, they have buckets of funding and that's one of the reasons the Volition is asking for a bigger pot of money because it's some of, so they have direct grants to working lands businesses like a farm or a forest products business. That, I understand. And those are usually smaller grants, like in the tens of thousands of dollars. And then they have infrastructure grants, where they might have a larger grant, like hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Cheesecake that helps several producers. Right, but my question, I'll
[Unidentified Committee Member]: break it down plain and simple, is that Vermont Sustainable Jobs Funds comes in and asks for an allocation of a certain amount of money every year, which cannot remember that. But as I
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: said Yeah, they get
[Unidentified Committee Member]: a direct state appropriation. Right. And then they're getting more money through another Vermont Working Lands Enterprise Initiative because they, I believe they set up for the sports product development program up in the Northeast Kingdom, put together a weekend or something. Yep. That cost 55,000. That, you know, that's why wasn't that money better suited to go to a producer that rather than to outfit that Vermont already gets pretty strong funding Again, from our
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: don't represent the Sustainable Adjustment, but I will say that they are created in statute to perform certain duties for the state, and they also, I think the enterprise board decides where they wanna focus their funding and sometimes they identify areas where there might need to be a special project to move something forward or figure out how to solve a problem, especially in a supply chain, and a lot of times they'll grant with an organization that can provide a service in figuring that out, and that's one of the functions that the Sustainable Jobs Fund does. So, probably that was identified as a need, and then the Sustainable Jobs Fund was probably asked to facilitate that conversation. That's my guess. Thanks. Thank you. Yeah.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Really? Everybody clear with what these three folks are Yeah. Allocating for? Okay. Well, you all three of you very much for coming in and saving our day and Well, us saving
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: we're always happy for Thank your you so much.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you. We're in Jackie We have her on. So Jackie, come on in.
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Good morning, How are you today?
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Morning, how are you? Jackie, we have a $300,000 in capital grant. I think that's based through institutions. Is that correct?
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: That's correct.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And then help us with $110,000 I know you sent me an email, but it's better or a message, but it's better for you just to tell us on screen. The stipend, which is in the Ag budget.
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Yes. The stipend is $110,000 and that is divided up into the fares based on a couple of different things, including their people that attend, their attendance daily for the year. It's been at $110,000 for probably since Carolyn Partridge was chair of the House Ag Committee. So, that's been a long time. And we've been very, very grateful for that. The fairs, as you know, we came in and told you how much it helps as part of their $9,000,000 going into the total, into the communities. At one point, Carolyn did find some extra money and she bumped it up to $150,000 and the next year the governor's proposed budget knocked it back down to 110,000 As I said when we came in, you know, we're very grateful for that amount. We do have two fairs that came back in this year. We're going to have the Franklin Field Days coming in again in August, and Bradford came back up after a year's hiatus, as well as the farm show tentatively scheduled for April 2027. So, that will be three more fairs that will be divided into that $110,000 As always, grateful for whatever you could do. If you could find $20,000 to move it up a little bit on our behalf, that'd be great. But if you can't, we're very, very grateful for the $110,000
[Unidentified Committee Member]: And then how many fares? How many fares, Jackie?
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: We're going back up to 14 fairs now. So, we're adding the farm show next year. You may not recall, but when the farm show went out of business, we actually it's in statute that they were grandfathered, So, they can come back in and start requesting the stipend. They can't request the capital because they don't own the land, but they can request the stipend. And so, they can do that on a best guess of what their attendance might be next year. So, there will be the farm show, the Franklin County Field Days, and the Bradford Fair coming back in for 2027, which will lower the pot a little bit for the rest of them.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I
[Unidentified Committee Member]: know you can use it for some, but it just doesn't. What do you have? I'd rather pull the regular fiber. Oh, okay. Just ancillary. Well,
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: they use it a lot, too. Some of them use it to turn on the lights. Some of them use it for premiums. They buy ribbons ahead of time. There's a lot of expenses that they have to have prior to opening the fair. So, use that for leverage as they do with the capital grants. It turns out to be about between 7,000 and $11,000 per fare, depending on how it's divided out. So it isn't a lot of money, but it's very helpful to all of them.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: That was going be my next question. Does it break down evenly among all affairs? Does it matter size or is it by attendance?
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: It's by attendance. So, for example, Guilford actually came back online three years ago. Bonneville actually came online four years ago. So, those were two New Year Fairs we added. Guilford gets about the smallest amount of money because they have it's one of the smaller fairs. Bradford also, which is Connecticut River Valley, would get a smaller amount. So it is based on attendance. Addison, Caledonia, and Champlain Valley and Vermont State Fair usually get the higher amount because they have the bigger attendance.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Who has the highest attendance room? In Flint, kind of. Is it Champlain Fair or is it?
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Yes, it's definitely Champlain.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Let's poke your chest out. No, we're going to second and third place.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Actual largest ever real friend.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: There's one of the hottest and rotten now. We gotta get this one set up.
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: It's a friendly competition. So, you know, this year when you get your passes, take your whole family, go to every fair. You know, move that move that
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: attendance up, and we'll see what
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: we can do.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Right? I wanna see a bloodbath here. Yeah. Let's get ready to rumble. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you very much for short notice and jumping in. We appreciate you always. Thank you.
[Jackie Folsom (Vermont Fairs & Field Days Association)]: Sure. Thank you very much for your consideration. Appreciate it.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay. So folks, I think we, did we get down through that list fair enough? We want to start, We wanna just make a click and copy so we can get that Sure. Going Okay.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: If they got 14 pairs, then we could squeeze 144.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: All right. So let's get something that Linda can write up for us in language that we can write up. So starting again at the top. Tell me how that's written out. We'll do
[Unidentified Committee Member]: the two easiest. Yeah. They're both
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: in the gutter's recommended. Okay. So both of those. So Yeah. We're after school at early. Childhood grants program. And then local food. Yep. Incentives. That's the. District. And supervisory unions. Supervisory unions. 500,000. Yep. Okay. So the next one is, how are we gonna label that? There's gonna be cash, croft. Croft, cash. Yeah. Croft, cash. Comma. Croft, cash. Oh, slash. Yeah. Croft, cash, plus. That's a big of a Is
[Unidentified Committee Member]: that one of them Mike Bald Eagle pens?
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Actually, it is. It doesn't write on that table very well. And what was the last one? Bombshell. Bombshell. Bombshell. Here. Yeah. Running out of ink. Product share and that supply of 100,000 total, right? Yep. They got four fifty last year. Okay. And then we are at the Mount Food Bank. Yep. Are we going with a 1.9? They want a five point zero.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Do we give them that comparison when you go to Mass? You say, This is what they were doing. Yeah.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Conservation districts? Based on what? I wrote eight fifty, but only because I think last year I got eight sixty two.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: You got eight fifty?
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, that's what I wrote. They got six Let's talk. The governor's got me by six twelve. Plus two fifty.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Plus, so why don't we try
[Unidentified Committee Member]: to get 300 before? Okay. To an additional Yeah. 50 this year.
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: I just wanna clarify. The three fifty one time is not Right.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Right. Right. That yeah. That's what I'm saying.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Time last year. We're trying
[Unidentified Committee Member]: to push it for 300 this year.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Tell me the number.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: 3 or $3.50? 50. It would be if you gave him the 300, it would be $9.09, 12.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yep. Everybody good? Yep. Rob? Yeah. Okay. Working lands.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: So the the governor gave them a million last year. Right. They're asking well, they're not asking for 6, but they're asking for 5.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Ouch.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: That's gonna be heavy lift, I think.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I mean
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Or many 500,000, so they show me. Again, I mean, that's still as good as we've learned.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: 95? Correct. Gotta do something tomorrow, but I mean, I So go for a med
[Unidentified Committee Member]: I'm sorry.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: We're waiting, but we can go ahead. It's gonna take you a little
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: while. Okay. And then we are at the Vermont Fairs. I believe the $4.10. I'm sorry, the 300,000. You've already We've that in our institution. It's pretty safe. And I bumped the other one up to 160,000. So we go ahead and have to say the 300,000 as far as in here, because we're not requesting that from this. Right. So all we got to say is the 110. Are we going to try to go up that to 100 and Tell me the number. 1 160? Yeah. And then we have a lot of them. Yeah. The S-sixty million dollars. Yeah.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Any luck on finding any other money? No.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I know we're trying I got a computer now. Yeah.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: It kinda I I did. Yeah.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yeah. We love big talkers at the beginning. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, if we don't have a flood or a drought or freeze in May, maybe we can If I over. Rob, whenever you No. Yeah. I'm just looking at the
[Unidentified Committee Member]: history of what they had. They requested. It's so radically different. Of a million 5, it makes sense. Trying to start a progression back. They did have five million. Was the COVID-nineteen And all the others are relatively less. I'm glad you brought
[Unidentified Committee Member]: that
[Amy Shollenberger (Action Circles)]: You
[Unidentified Committee Member]: say relatively less or?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Well, so last year was a million, as we said, before that was a million, but
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: 2,000,000 a year before that, but that's
[Unidentified Committee Member]: all during that same time period. And they had a lot of funding requests given to me too. Would you suggest, Steve, 1.5?
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Yes. Yeah. For working lands? Yeah. Yeah. Got at least try to increase, and if not, the same is I think this one does a virtual bomb.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: The difficulty of asking.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Yay. Well, I think we've got that done. Already 08:30. No. We need
[Linda (Committee Assistant/Staff)]: Too much to study. Yeah. Okay. Right then.
[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay. I think gone through that. We're still looking at 11:00. Think Bradley can come. Okay. Is everybody good for a minute? Yep. Okay.
[Unidentified Committee Member]: Yes, definitely.