Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Good morning. It's Tuesday, February 24. We're going to spend some time talking about S-three 23, sections one through three. We have a senator who wants to talk about a situation that he has in one of his towns that he represents. As customary, what we do on the first day of the week, we go around the room and introduce ourselves. Sorry.

[Senator Brian Collamore]: Senator Collamore representing the Rutland District.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Senator Plunkett's on the screen. I don't see you, but we'll

[Senator Robert Plunkett]: I move am here. You won't be seeing me today. I apologize, but yes, Senator Plunkett from Bennington District. Thank you, Senator. Senator Heffernan, Addison County District.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Senator Major, Windsor District. Senator Russ Ingalls, Essex District, Northeast Kingdom. Senator Walker, the floor is yours.

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: Thank you, Chair and Senators. For the record, my name's John Walton, of the O'Lee District. This has been an ongoing issue. I just wanna give you a little bit of a history background on what's been going on in the Village Of Orleans. I'm also the general manager there. We had what was once a commission sentence, and they used to be really active and really, really good, and everything was fine. The police always got taken care of. They had auctions. It was a pretty neat place, going up, go there and see the chickens, the turkeys, the pigs, everything, and you could buy them. Then, as everything, things change and they stopped having commission sales options and that actually basically became a firearm a firearm stand area for cows coming in once a week and then they'd be moved out from the local farms. And then that dried up too. Pigs get bigger and bigger. And now that individual that's running that now has pigs there, and at some points, there's anywhere from, let's say, 75 to 200 pigs. I don't know if you've been around pigs much, but pigs and chickens tend to submit odors, scribbles, and it's right into the middle of the village of Ormigans. And so summertime becomes very pungent. It is not a health concern because we talk to the health department and the odor is not a health fraud. We've also gone and reached out to HG Natural Resources, make sure everything was good there, because our well was just down the the Willoughby River's right there. If the community is pretty much up in our accent, Village Annual Meeting, I get questions on it every single year, not just at Village Meeting, but in my office, at the Village Office as well, particularly during this hot and humid months of the year. I'm having a hard time believing that this is possible, believe it or not, that somehow there's no regulatory environment that can help solve this issue, but it doesn't seem to be that I'm aware of. I think Department of the Agency of Agriculture may disagree with me on that, but this problem's gonna continue to come up. Right now, it's in the village. They could come up in your town, your village, come up in Newport, you can come up anywhere as long as because there's no soil at all when it comes to Adams, so I'm looking at because I think don't wanna take any end down the road to build the Orleans right now is at the forefront. This guy, in my opinion, is not doing anything under. I don't think he's a big deal, but I think, moving forward, that we should try to fix it legislatively instead of keep the can down the road so that this can't happen to downtown areas. He's right beside an elderly housing development, too, that they border it. He has a lot of individuals border him. Obviously they don't complain. The pigs also get out lots of times. Pigs tend to dig and burrow, They get on people's lawns and go to get into their room, so this issue is also surrounding that. We've had police down there who had the local Oh, I was thinking bacon. Local ambulance control officer, so it's not just a prolonged, difficult situation. I stay in contact with the individual that owns it and talk with him and say things to him. We go on fine. But I'm just here to present to you a problem that really should be addressed, I think, by this legislature somehow, someway. You folks are the experts in this arena. Am not. I just need to let you know what the issues concerns are to communities, and don't think for a minute that this can't come

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: to your district as well. Is there a waste management plan? He cut the waste off?

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: No, there's real issues surrounding that. I actually tried helping him, Senator. I went and spoke with local farmers in the area to see if they would go get the waste, because waste is valuable on fields, and when they went down to look at it, there's all kinds of different products in the waste. There's a lot of plastic in there, bones, all kinds of different types of refuse that the other farmers did not want on their feeds.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So I know the property's shown, about 5.5 acres, probably about an acre of it is usable, the other is a steep hill

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: or whatever.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I mean, there's going to be some runoff somewhere on that property.

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: There is. The pitch of the land is flat and then where the waste is housed or brought is out back, and right beside where the waste is being stored is a steep, steep hill, and then there's a trench, so the trench then leads to moving the earth. You said

[Senator Robert Plunkett]: you've been in contact with him, have they said, Can you move? Or is he just like, It's my right, I'm gonna fire him here, fix your, out of just defiance, or that he really has no place

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: to go? So, wonderful question. So about three years ago, I'm gonna guess Senator, the Village of Orleans reached out to him to try to acquire the property, and we agreed on amount, and then the Village Trustees thought we were heading in the right direction, and he came back with a higher amount. And then, reluctantly, we had agreed to that amount, and then that amount went up as well, so it was, at that point, became not possible to settle it was too much, it just became way, way, way too much. We have been actively trying to do that. Actually, realtors have reached out to him to try to acquire it and try to move him to a different location that was good for him, but

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: And the person that's farming it doesn't own it,

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: rents it? I think he actually does own it now. I think now the deed is currently in his name. The reason I say that, Senator, was I called up the town clerk and requested that information, who was on the deed, and I think he is now on that.

[Senator Brian Collamore]: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So how long well, from the background that you shared with us, there were other animals in that space at one time, and it didn't sound like there were issues. People would go and watch the chickens and the cows. So for how long has it been a place where pigs are?

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: I'm gonna say some of five to six years in that vicinity. And problems arose almost immediately? Yeah. Or

[Senator Brian Collamore]: But there's no zoning.

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: There is zone. Oh, there is? There is zone in the town of which the village only is part of the town of Barden.

[Senator Brian Collamore]: Okay.

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: The town provides all the zoning. There is zone. Is

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: it in litigation?

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: I believe that it is between the town and the owner. But

[Senator Brian Collamore]: as of now, he's not running afoul of any zoning right

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: No, not that. Well, I think the court system will actually finally decide that, but I would say as of right now, needs to continue operating then the legal process, repeal. I don't know how long that's all going go through, or any strength of the law Supreme Court. That's an important part. Yeah. So Barnskown Village, the Morley, It's just in the northern part. It's the same. Some of the townships are

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Really? Questions?

[Senator Robert Plunkett]: Situations like this, I really wish that people work together, and it sounds like you have, and sometimes you just, people dig in and you gotta bear it and hope that it comes to a good conclusion at some point.

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: One thing that, you know, he stresses emphatically is he's in the village of Orleans, he has three phase power right beside it, he's got water, he's got wastewater, so he thinks it's extreme of value. Unfortunately, we agreed twice, and it just became more and more valuable each time, So it's difficult, and we try to maintain lines of communication so we can, you know, break through the ice at some point in time, but we've been unable to, so I just want this community to realize that there is a problem out there, and moving forward, it should really give this some consideration. I don't know how to fix it.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: You probably said to Senator, just want to be clear, as general manager of the village, what would the village like to see be done?

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: Well, obviously, if you could regulate it to a certain degree, so that, you know, and I don't know what the right amount is, Senator. I know sometimes you can have like three to four chickens, if they're served land size or something like that. I don't know about other animals in the town, like a goat or a sheep or something like that, or a cow, or a horse. I can just tell you that having an active business like this with 200 animals right in the middle of the village where they're working with us, the residents are complaining, the customers that are coming into the village of Orleans are complaining going into the grocery store, going into the Orleans General Store, or doing anything on mainstream. The church has complained. You know, it's high density, populated area, but

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: that's what

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: we want. We want our communities to be downtown, mostly close to our downtown centers and our main streets, but it's gonna be pretty hard to do that with something like this. So I'm just wanting to your guys' thoughts on how you think we could resolve a situation like this. And just each time you come, you set a price, you've got the method price, and you said, okay, I'm done. What's the period of time between agreeing to a price and then him saying, okay, I want more? Well, the first time it was I'm gonna and I'm only he was a guest event, presiding over, and it was probably, like, seven, six, seven years ago, I'm gonna guess, and then once he declined that offer, was, a week, and then we reached, he reached back out to us, and then it took quite a while, then there was probably a couple months within that timeframe, and we said no to that, and then after that it went up even more, and then he put it on the real estate market. He had a real estate agent, I believe, Stowe trying to sell it, and that, they, they can't sell, for the prices that are on Sure. And so I've been trying to negotiate, work in good faith, but it just really hasn't done me to the point.

[Senator Robert Plunkett]: And what street is it on? It's a church.

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: I heard you can knock, so you're old lady. Oh, I think it's okay.

[Senator Robert Plunkett]: Oh,

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: it's snow stuff. There's a lot of, he brings in hay, he brings in grain, he brings in barrels of products for feed, to I feed some of understand that. Sometimes taking care of some of the remnants of that is difficult. There is also, and I'm not, you can never ever prove that it's due to him, but there's a, there was become a pretty good rat issue last summer, so people were really upset, fucking arms about that because of surrounding neighbors. Skunks are skunks, raccoons are raccoons, I get that. The rat thing just really seemed to disrupt people.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Any more questions for Senator Warren? No,

[Senator Brian Collamore]: I wish we had more wisdom. Because the problem with, if it's sections one, two, and three in this bill, if you're reacting to a particular situation, it's hard to change a law that will affect a whole bunch

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: of other people. So I'm not saying that. I would love to do that, but I agree, unfortunately. Yes. I'm saying moving forward, I think you should really consider doing something because this isn't going go away in my mind. So I agree with you with that being, I'll do whatever I can completely within the existing rules and regulations of the State of Vermont to try to do what I can, but it's not fun, it's not easy, I don't care what anything says, but if there's something that can make it more fluid and easy, and let people know, you know, I mean, if you guys pass a law, I think you should go out to the towns, probably the cities and towns, and everyone knows what the new rules are, but we can't continue to let this occur, in my opinion.

[Senator Brian Collamore]: No, I hear I live next

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: door. Oh, go up to the country club once in a while, and they want to wring my neck, you know? Stateful. Oh, and they, so they always ask me, What are you doing? What are you doing? Why can't you fix this? Can't you call somebody? Can you call the HCI? Can you call the governor? Can you call Fix

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: it, fix it, fix

[John Walton, General Manager, Village of Orleans]: it. Well, it's pretty interesting. I'm trying to fix it. I called a lot of different agencies and departments throughout the state of Vermont.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay, well, we're working on this bill. Think I understand the problem. If not, we'll reach back out to you, and thank you very much. Thank you. I know we said ten thirty. Why don't we just wait till 10:30? We've got it scheduled online for 10:30, and then take a

[Senator Brian Collamore]: seven

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: minute break.