Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I've got a busy day. Just a little committee discussion before we bring in our first group. And so wanna talk about how we are lining things up on our miscellaneous bill, several of you, Senator Plunkett as well, but other conversations, I apologize, I think you've always spoke to me this way, I just kind of remember Senator Plunkett's question is, how are we lining up on the first section lines, sections one through three, there's a lot of information there. We're bringing in some more stuff to try to just solidify this section one through three. Are we going to be able to satisfy all the different groups in there that we have? Well, I don't know. I hope that we can. I think we're pretty much all in alignment where we're at. But I know this. Have a trust of many people, and we're hearing that they're coming in from our What want, what I want, the most is towards the committee to come up with what they're comfortable with and we'll start kicking that off as far as that. This will go, we have a very large bill as you know, but it will go a lot faster than what you do, what it will. And if we can't get the witnesses in, we want to get witnesses in. Anybody who wants to come in, we want to get them in. But we can't get them in. I think that we have the trust of the farm community to make the right decision. We're hearing that over and over and over again that they like what we do. So again, I want us to work really, really hard to get witnesses in on specific groups of topics that we have, or 17 of them. Just have a good memory, take good notes. I'm not going to try to be jumping around over and over and over again. What I'd like to do is as we go down through these sections and we have clarity of where our thought process is, start to be working on language and it might change. It will change, it definitely will, but we are in a process now of starting to get this bill ready for law form. So as we go down through, ask the hard questions, get the witnesses in. If you're unsure about something, let me know, Let us know. We work very, very well together, all of us. All add something to it.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: But

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: it's time to get some language started, which is the point of what I'm talking about. Anything about that? We're good with that? Everybody like that plan? You guys know that if you don't, you what? You guys all know what to do, right? The second thing is that we are beholden to follow the state, all over the public. Anybody who wants to come in here that has a subject matter that is ag related, is who we listen to and want to listen to, and we want all voices heard. With that being said, I'm going to start to restrict a little bit as far as not in such a way that somebody's not gonna get in because that is not what we do. But I'm going to be centric on what isn't what we have in front of us. So I'm gonna try to be filling those things up again. You know, let's talk with Linda like you guys do. Let's get our witnesses in here. Let's get them lined up. Let's not be the committee that calls a witness the night before 10:00 and say, Hey, can you come in tomorrow? Let's set this up thoughtfully, let's get all sides and let all voices heard. Like what we have today, we have 3Squares awareness coming in so we're not gonna we're gonna still keep on talking to everybody who wants to talk to us but we're gonna be a little bit more heavy on what we have in front of us. Everybody cool with that? Yes. Yes. Any other thoughts about any of that as we any of that? Everybody good with that? Yeah. Okay. K. So let's start our day. We're gonna start the day today with Three Squares awareness. We're a very, very important group of people who feed the most vulnerable in our communities. As you guys, as we are very well aware, as they are very well aware, Vermont is very focused on growing their own food, everything we talk about, everything that we are looking forward. I know one of the things that we're most passionate about or starting to be very passionate about is making sure that our farmland stays in production so that we can feed our people. And we're very fortunate that we have organizations out there that are good at getting product to the communities and I don't really see their role diminishing in any way. Unfortunately, food insecurity is a topic that we are going to talk about for the rest of our lives into infinity, but I think we're getting better at it, and we're getting better at it because of the people that we're going to talk to today. So, John, are you leading off, or who wants to lead off?

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: I will.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Sounds good.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Thank you, Chair Ingalls and committee members for having us today for Three Squares Vermont Awareness Day, as you know, and for the record, my name is Joanna Doran. I live in Wieduski, and I'm the local food access director with NOPA Vermont. I'm here today with partners, farmers, and neighbors to talk about Three Squares Vermont, to acknowledge this essential program, and to ask for your support on requests that together, we'll ensure the best outcomes for Vermonters, our community, our farmers, and our county. So, we have three requests today. One is support NOFA Vermont's request for $500,000 in ongoing support to strengthen Vermont farm viability and support food security by sustaining proven programs, crop cash, crop cash plus, and farm share. Support the Vermont Food Bank's request for $5,000,000 total appropriation in FY twenty seven, including $2,000,000 to support their network of partners, 2,000,000 for the Ramona Studying Vermonters program, and $1,000,000 for Ready Response to ensure food access in disasters and emergencies, and fund the necessary administrative costs to operate the Three Squares Vermont program in our state to counter federal funding changes. Full funding for Three Squares Vermont administration is critical to keep this program available for all who are eligible. First, I wanna share some background of Three Squares Vermont and how it impacts Vermonters and farmers. Three Squares Vermont is known nationally as SNAP, and in many households across the state, it's also known as a lifeline. By choosing the name Three Squares Vermont, Vermont made a commitment to the goal of having three square meals for everyone, every day. This federal nutrition program is operated on behalf of the federal government by state agencies. Is the most effective and efficient federal nutrition program because it provides funds directly to people every month to buy groceries through traditional channels like grocery stores and general stores, and also farmers markets, farm stands, TSAs. Three Squares Vermont helps nearly 10% of our state buy groceries every month. That's approximately 63,400 people, the vast majority of whom are children, older adults, and people with disabilities. In order to get Three Squares benefits each month, people have to complete a lengthy application process, provide verification about their income, expenses, and other details, complete an interview, and be found eligible by the Department of Children and Families Economic Services Division. This program is meant to support grocery costs for low income individuals, and people have to be below a certain income limit, and based on how many people are in their household and share food craft. So, for example, a single mom with two kids would be a household of three, and they would need to earn less than $4,100 a month to qualify, or $49,000 a year. For most households, benefits are issued on a DVT card that works just like a debit card. This can be used at over 600 retailers in Vermont, including 40 farmers markets and many farm stands in days. These benefits flow directly into our state economy, where people buy groceries with these dollars. So, in a given month, Three Squares Vermont keeps more than $12,000,000 in our state economy. This makes Three Squares Vermont not only our most effective security program, but it's truly an essential economic stimulus program. In rural areas, that spending often determines whether a small business can keep its stores open or not. In the first half of this state's fiscal year, over $150,000 at Three Squares Vermont benefits were spent at Park Resort and Beloan. And programs like Crop Cash and Crop Cash Plus can help extend the impact of this benefit by providing an additional incentive for people to spend their benefits at farmers' markets and with their local farmers. By the same token, that provides additional income for our partners as well. So for the over 63,000 Vermonters who rely on Drew Squares every month to buy groceries, and the 600 plus retailers and farmers who depend on these funds to support their business, this program is essential. It is dignified, private, and incredibly efficient to support hard working Vermonters, older adults, veterans, children, people with disabilities, so they have the food they need. While Three Squares Vermont effectively reaches the most low income folks in Vermont, we know that the program only reaches roughly 40% of those eligible in the state, according to census data. There are a number of reasons for this discrepancy, including additional eligibility requirements and the burdensome application process. This is one of the many reasons why having trained and trusted benefit visitors at organizations across Vermont is so important so that people can access those programs to get the support they need. Another recent example of this discrepancy is because we saw the largest funding and eligibility changes in the SNAP program in the history of the program was the passage of APR1 in July 2025. There were three major changes in the SNAP eligibility program, which has already impacted our communities in serious ways. So first, far fewer people who are immigrants can access SNAP, including refugees and people granted asylum. Second, more people have to report information about their work or volunteer activity in order to keep accessing benefits for more than three months in a three year period. So veteran people experiencing homelessness and people who have aged out of foster care are no longer automatically exempt from this rule, and people with kids 14 and older are newly subject to this rule. This is confusing for households who are otherwise eligible for the program and may not know how to report that information to the state. And finally, poor people have to report information about whether they pay for heating cooling or risk losing a portion of their monthly benefits. These changes, in effect, make it more challenging for lower income folks to tap into this important grocery support. Not only did our state agency have to work hard to understand and implement these changes, but service providers had to quickly communicate these changes to community members. And while we must keep Three Squares Vermont available to the tens of thousands of Vermonters who tap into this program to afford groceries, We also must ensure that people who have lost eligibility to the program or have never been eligible can access other programs, including those within the charitable system. Yes,

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: is it okay if I ask questions now so or did

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: what is the mechanism by which you are, alerting these people who were on SNAP that are are no longer on SNAP of the administration and how to,

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: fill out the I I guess it's online now or paperwork. What's the

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: mechanism and the logistics of it?

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: For the detailed answer, I would refer to our state agency partners, the Department of Children and Families. I know that there's a lot of communication that goes out through mail to recipients and the benefits of sisters folks at the Food Bank and other organizations across the state support people in signing up for the program and can communicate those changes as well. So, can follow-up with directions.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: So, you're looking over there, so I Yeah. If we can just have an answer, that'd be great.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Sure. Hi. I'm Leslie Wisdom. I'm the Three Squares Vermont director.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: I am going to, and

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: I apologize for this, is there any way to pull up another chair just so you could be on camera as well? So,

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: everyone that is watching at home, like, can absolutely see.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Oh, that's interesting. Good morning.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Good morning.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: I'm Leslie Liston with Economic Services Division for the Department for Children and Families, and I am the director of the Three Squares Vermont. So, are you asking about all the federal changes that have happened that have impacted health?

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: How are we communicating that to the people that

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: are no longer, well, I'm not saying they're

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: not eligible, but we've kicked them off.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Right, we, well, there's different reasons people can lose eligibility, we definitely send a notice of decision for any impacted households who might be either their benefit reduced or they lost eligibility with a detailed reason. Information about how to call the department if they have questions. We also have a network of outreach providers, community partners who can assist in answering questions, but all households are notified they're impacted.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: Is the admin and applying now much more than they have in the past, and is the proof of whatever the proof is more detailed?

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: The process for applying hasn't changed. The rules have changed with the changes in federal law. If you mentioned the lengthy application, it's about a 15 page application to apply for SNAP, the SNAP program.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: What was it before?

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: It's still 50.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Okay.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Where

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: are we? I wanna flesh that out a little bit more on where Sergeant Major is going with this, but I think where he's called with it. Are we losing people? Are we getting people out of this program because of federal dollars, or what's going on with all of that stuff? Give us the understanding of where we're at.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: There have been households impacted by the change in federal law, not the change in the funding, but the change in the rules. Johanna mentioned refugees and asylees. There are some non citizens who are no longer eligible for the program. There are changes to how their shelter costs are calculated, which have resulted in a few households losing or reducing eligibility. And then work requirement changes will impact households at the end of this month for those who aren't currently meeting the work requirement or have an exemption?

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: It's asked, are we able to overcome those changes through our state as far as with what we're doing? Are doing that?

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: We have reached out to households who are impacted by these changes. We are working on a campaign this month for the impacted households starting March 1 with work requirements, hoping to reach those who we haven't yet reached. We do expect when people get a closure notice effective March 1, that sometimes is the reason that they call us, and report whether they're working or they may have an exemption.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: How is our privacy to those folks that we're dealing with as far as what we have to disclose or not disclose? How are we protecting these people?

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: We do not share their information with anyone else. Their privacy is protected.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: That's Policy or national policy?

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Federal and state. Okay.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: And they either volunteer or show that they're, have a job?

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Yes, they can, there's a combination of ways to meet the work requirement. You can be employed or volunteering or in an education or training program for eighty hours per month. You can also volunteer with a public or private non profit. It's a complicated calculation, but it's based on your monthly benefit amount divided by Vermont's minimum wage. So, for example, a single household of one with a maximum benefit would have to volunteer about twenty one hours per month to meet that volunteer requirement, and there's many ways to be exempt. Folks on unemployment, women who are pregnant are exempt.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Disability.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Disability, medical reasons, there's many, many exceptions.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: And how's the reception been to this? Have you been getting a lot of this as BS, or okay, I can do it? That's a complaint from a question.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: It's hard to implement policy that restricts eligibility. I don't have any information similar to what you're asking. We will start to see first people losing benefits at the end of this month, so happy to report back on that. Okay.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Thanks. Yeah. So, and and and that last I I think is probably the most important because you wouldn't have any data because we haven't have seen it yet. Right. And who answer it? So, probably it's not fair for me to ask a question.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Oh, I'm happy to hear you asking.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, thank

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: you very much.

[Leslie Wisdom (Director, 3SquaresVT, DCF Economic Services Division)]: Yes, No,

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: thank you.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: I'll just close my testimony before we move on to other letters, to say that food security is a policy choice, Three Squares Vermont is an essential part of the pathway to supporting households while we work together to achieve food security in Vermont. The message we want to convey to you is that together, we can work to ensure that everyone in Vermont gets the food that they need when they need it, and that farmers are supported in this as well. Legislators have a critical role to play in making policy decisions that ensure the best outcome for Vermonters. So, we are again asking for three requests today.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: You can go on those requests one more I will.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Thank

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: you. Thank you for asking. One is to support an also Vermont's request for $500,000 in ongoing funding to support the Front Patch Requested Fracture programs.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Has the governor put any monies into that program?

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: It does not appear that the governor's budget money.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I'm gonna ask everyone that he had said.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Support for Vermont Food Bank's request for $5,000,000 and the total appropriation for FY '27, including 2,000,000 for support for their network partners, 2,000,000 for Vermont Exceeding with Monarchs, and 1,000,000 for Ready for Ponce. Did we

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: have to support that last year? Did you get funding last year?

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: I will defer to John about the amount, but I do think so.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: Just quickly, John Sales from Libermont Food Bank. I live here in Montpelier. Last year, the legislature appropriated $500,000 for Vermonters Feed and Quotters. Right. And I don't believe there's anything in the government's budget, although we did have that conversation with them as they're putting the budget together.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: And I think we were able to help the Prop Cats community.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Yes. This committee was instrumental in funding

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Prop Cats and Prop Cats. Exactly. One time.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: For $450,000 in one time funding, which has been huge. And after I close, I would love to pass it off to Jamie, who is going to talk about the impact CropFresh Plus has had on their farm. But there's the final of the three requests today. It's to fund the necessary administration costs to counter federal funding changes to support the administration of

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: the Three Scores Vermont program.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: How much is that?

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: That is a number that I think is still being finalized, but we will get back

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: to you on that. Yes. So if you could get back with Sergeant Major with those numbers, that number's very critical. It's not too late, but it's not too early. And

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: also with that administrative costs, if there's any sort of calculation that can suggest that $1 in administrative costs leads to x number of dollars coming in state for use, that would be helpful because I would talk a lot about, you know, this being sort of multiplier. We can have that sort of multiplier to help a lot.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Yeah, thanks for that question. We'll try to get that information to you.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: And just the reason for that, I think, for

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: a committee,

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: want a fund, obviously, everything is important, but we also have to sell it. And

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: We do have to sell it.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. And I don't think it's any secret that, you know, every every penny is being looked at, you know, and to to a 30,000 foot cube is you know, our goal budget is over $9,000,000,000. 3,000,000,000 of that is federal. And so when you look at that, we go and ask if there's some return on investment to Senator Plunkett's comment that helps us. So

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Yes. Yeah. And we will we will prepare you as best we can to make that argument. We know that when we invest in administrative costs for this program, that means more people can stay on benefits, which means they can spend those dollars in the Vermont economy, which means farms have that stores have that income and can stay open, so it does have a very large ripple effect.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: We're not a money committee, we're a policy committee. The three of us serve on a money committee, and I'm thinking no. Three of us serve on a money committee, and it's certainly a lot easier when you do have monies in front of you. So we, as Senator Major did say it so correctly, we have to go and become advocates just like you are. And we're very lucky that we're very diverse throughout the building. So, yeah. So like I said, it's not too late, but it's getting late. We can see the door closing.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Yeah. Well, we'll get that number to you when the door closes.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: K.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Thank you so much. Thank you. And if it's alright, I would love for Jamie

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Well, you're driving the ship. K. Thanks, Turner. Thanks,

[Jamie Skye Bianco (Owner, Ramble Bramble Farm)]: Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for having me here. My name is Jamie Skye Bianco, and I'm the owner and the sole operator of, at least for two more weeks, of Ramble Bramble Farm. I'm here testifying in 500,000 that, Joanna mentioned in ongoing funding for Crop Cash, Crop Cash Plus, and FarmShare. But I'm gonna specifically talk about how Crop Cash Plus has impacted my farm and its growth. Just a little background, Ramble Bramble sits on a 136 acres at the top of the mountains just south of Camel's Hump in the southernmost part of Huntington. I'm a Vermont organic farmer, certified organic protein producer. I raise sheep, goats, and chickens, particularly eggs, and I'm also a sourdough and focaccia baker. I sell primarily in farmers markets in the area around me, including Burlington, Winooski, Jericho, Richmond, and Middlebury. And I also wholesale to other producers, farmers and farm stores, including Trillium Hill, Last Resort, wholesale to small groceries like Jubilee and Fifth Quarter in Warren, and restaurants like Ida Pizza Pies that are epically known in our area. I am committed as a farmer to producing the cleanest, most nutritious food possible and my customers have come to expect that from my brand. I have a lot of communication around my practices which are labor intensive and expensive in terms of farming. And this has historically made clean, nutritionally dense food inaccessible to many folks due to the cost of production. And despite the expense that's involved in production and delivery, Crop Cash Plus has enabled more customers to afford my products. I'm very proud to share that 30% of my lamb and goat meat sales and 20% of my sourdough and focaccia bread sales come in through customers who are paying with Crop Cash Plus. I have a lot of conversations with my customers and in fact, I always make a point to thank them for choosing to use their benefits at a farmer's market to support farms. And few of the folks that I work with are new Americans, so I really wanna stress that most who are purchasing are not constituents of the refugee and asylum programs that you were mentioning earlier, or what we constantly refer to as ethnic markets for lamb and goat. These are people who are purchasing my meat because they prefer organic sheep and goat and want nutritious food. And I can share with you, I'll give you an example in a moment, that they're very consciously choosing to support the market, the farmers and their own health and well-being. I had a conversation about two months ago with one very regular customer in Winooski. And a lot of my customers in Winooski express or demonstrate disability. And so there's a lot of conversation around accessibility to the market and accessibility to food, including grocery. And this customer came and let me know during the federal withholding of SNAP benefits that he had visited the local food pantry. And he told me that he was specifically hoarding, that was his word, crop cash plus for meat because the pantry had limited protein options. And this was very important for his specific health needs and his diet. And I can't begin to say enough how important it is for these folks to have support of this program in order to access high quality eggs and high quality meat. How important it is to have accessibility to quality food to the disabled. And most of them have children who I also meet and chat with at the market. They want clean and nutritious food. And because I also bake bread, they refer to me as the little farmer grocery. And I find that incredibly accurate, but also uplifting, especially on hard days here on the farm. It goes without saying that a high percentage of sales being supported by Classplus as a farmer and as a small business, I am hugely invested as a partner in this program. And I wanna say that given this past year's sales, which I've just gotten done going through, there's a huge growth in sales. And because of that, I'm taking on a part time person in two weeks. That's what I was referring to earlier. And in 2026 and also increasing the number of animals that I'm raising and have bred for this season. Because I have a tiny little apartment over one of my shop buildings, I'm able to offer housing to this person who's coming on the farm as well. And my hope is to be able to grow the farm over the next year enough to support this position full time. This increasing growth in the farm and farm employment is a direct result of the growth in sales represented here. And because the demand specifically for goat meat has skyrocketed. And this growth is a direct result of increased sales supported by the food accessibility programs. That has been the big shift in the last year to two years in my sales. The farm works with various agencies that support rotational grazing and sustainability and conservation practices on the land, but fundamentally, the ability to grow my farm is directly dependent upon who's buying my meat, eggs and bread. I cannot urge you strongly enough to support this $500,000 for crop cash, crop cash plots, and farm share in the fiscal year twenty seven budget. This is going to be the engine for growth for small farms, as well as food accessibility, and it is the ethically right thing to do to feed people nutritionally dense, locally grown, and locally owned food and farm enterprises. Thank you so much for having me. This is a pleasure. I wish I could have been there in person, but I had chores this morning. Thank you.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Amy, thank you. You are exactly part of who we believe is going to keep agriculture viable in the state of Vermont. We don't start out as large farm operations, we start out as small operations that grow. Thank you for being here today.

[Jamie Skye Bianco (Owner, Ramble Bramble Farm)]: Thank you all, I appreciate it.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Who's next?

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: Good morning.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Good morning.

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: Thank you so much for taking the time to hear my story. Thanks for being patient. Okay, So thank you so much for taking the time to hear about my story. My name is Sarah Dias. I am the founder and owning member of Giant Journey Farm in New Payne, Vermont. I am also a three Squares Vermont recipient. Our family is a three Squares family. I'm here today to talk about three Squares Vermont and to ask you to fund the full slate of food resiliency requests that the Vermont Food Bank, Nova Vermont, and Hover Free Vermont are asking for today. My family runs a two acre organic regenerative no till farm and depend on Three Squares Vermont SNAP benefits and other programs to eat and live. Our farm started as an average CSA farm, but we quickly realized our neighbors couldn't afford it. Knowing how hard we work, that we can't even afford our own food, it made it harder and harder to make the ask. We tried sliding scales, traded barter, simply charging less in order to feed our community. It was painful, it was demoralizing, and it was unsustainable. Now we feed dozens more families this season and are paid a fair price. We do this by participating in programs like NOFA's Farm Share, Senior Farm Share, serving our local food shelf in Townsend, partnering with community food projects like Brattle Road Moonscape Farm, and accepting Three Squares Vermont on our farm. These programs all depend on the funding before you today. Our farm, our family, is held by the incredible community we've become a part of. When I deliver raspberries and cabbage to the community food project, I take home grass fed whole milk from Miller Farm, a thing my children would never taste without the network that we have helped build each week. It's a truly terrifying time to be alive, more so each waking day, but our local food system and what it stands for keeps me getting up to feed the chickens every morning. Boy, it's been great. I know. And indeed, to speak with you here today. Every Vermonter seeking or receiving food support of any kind feels a level of insecurity or outright scarcity that dominates their decisions about food. In my experience, as a recipient and as somebody who takes three squares on their farm, SNAP recipients don't use their benefits on CFA shares or at a farm with market without the added support of NOFA FarmShare or Crop Cash and Crop Cash Plus, because access to food becomes a number of things. The most calories for the lowest price that rarely allow fresh, local, nutrient dense food to be a choice. Sometimes, veggie van go or a local food shelf, when they have it, it is the only way that people are accessing fresh produce. I hear regularly that folks are so excited when they receive our food that the snap peas, cherry tomatoes, and strawberries don't even make it back to their house. They just gobble it up in the pot. I imagine those lethal car rides home with pride but also a deep sense of grief. The bottom line here is that funding the complete slate of the food security roadmap to 2035 allows our community food systems to function exactly as they should, a full web of resilient and interconnected relationships in which all members of our society benefit from food sovereignty. Low income Vermonters and small farms depend on each other, and on the incredible web of support that the food bank and other stakeholders have developed. That dependency isn't a shortfall. It's a strength. At the end of the day, you all have a tremendous gift to give. Budgets are moral documents, and you get to say, in our brave little state, foods that were once relegated to poor people, nutrient dense staples like carrots and fresh greens, won't be allowed to become status symbols. By doing so, you simultaneously affirm we support our farms, not in branded image, but where it counts. Thank you for your time today, and for each moment that you spent considering the resources needed to sustain food resilience in your community.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. Ready? Thank you, Mr. Chair. You mentioned senior farm share. Is that a completely separate program from farm share?

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: Yeah, so it's similar to farm share, but what happens is that, like for example, in Townsend, we have Valley Cares. Okay. It's a senior living facility. Okay. Like an assisted living facility. And the folks in that facility, when they sign up for the senior share program through NOPA, they get, like, a mini share because it's just, like, one, you know, older person. They just get, like, I don't know, $10 worth of produce a week, and it just goes for, like, five or six weeks. So it's just, like, another type of, like, CSA share, but just, like, smaller and specifically for people who are in assisted living facilities. The fun thing about that program is

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: that when we were a

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: part of that program, we actually went to the assisted living facility and, like, met those with the folks, really, like, it was another way to build relationships, because a lot of, kind of, those assisted living facilities, like, you know, they're, like, don't have a lot of contact with folks often, and so it was, like, another great way for them to be like, woah, these people in the town right next to where I live, where I live my whole life, are growing the food that I'm eating. They're growing the raspberries and onions and all of the stuff that I'm eating. It's really nice to show the pictures and kind of just get to know them a bit.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: You mentioned a two acre farm?

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Yep. So

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: what are you growing on it?

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: We do a full slate of diversified vegetables. We also do berries. We do eggs and meat. We have chickens and rabbits and meat.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: All in two acres.

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: Yes. You can do an incredible amount on a very small amount of space. It's one of the things that our farm sort of specializes in, is making sure that people understand that we need to grow food wherever we are. Our farm, it's like in the middle of the forest. It's all slopey. There's rocks everywhere. It's not really what people would consider like a It's prime agricultural like, it's not what people would consider arable. Yeah. But it's like part of our mission to show people that you can grow food right where you are, and it's going to be critical for resilience, you know, looking at our future, to for people to understand that we need to grow food right where we are.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Are you doing, I'm sorry, there's a method to the madness of the question I'm gonna It's very important to our business as far as what we're shaping in there. Are you doing better than $2,000 a year in Yes, we are. Okay. More than 5? Yes. Okay, thank you. That's very important. A great question. You.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yeah, and if we were to ask that question, what would you think would be a good number to hit for, because it's 2,000 and out, do you keep it there or raise it a little bit due to inflation?

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: I am so glad you guys are asking me this, because I was really hoping to be able to testify for the right to grow food. I'm a board member with Nova Vermont as well. Sorry, Rural Vermont as It's really important to me that it stays stays at $2,000 because you just heard from Jamie as well, who's just starting up. Farms who are just starting up can't get into the game if they can't access

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: That's a topic for a second. Jamie, are you are you between 2 and $5,000 in sales a year?

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: I'm higher than that.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you. Very important.

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: But I didn't start out over 2,000. No.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: We get that. Right? I didn't

[Sarah Dias (Founder, Giant Journey Farm, Newfane)]: start out over 500.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: So we're gonna move on. I apologize, we just got a lot people here that we want to get in here, and we want to thank you very, very, very much. Thank so much. Who's next?

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: So it's me.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Hopefully, John. Didn't know if you were fast clean up or where you were gonna be, but No, not quite.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: John Sale, again, for record, CEO of Vermont Food Bank at Paramountville, your Joanna did a great job of talking all about Three Squares Vermont in the ask, so I'm not gonna repeat that because I wanna get to our guests also. Thank you for that. I I will reiterate that the legislature and the state can make policy choices that would create food security in Vermont. We're part of the Vermont Food Security Coalition, which is making the road map happen. You know, that is the food bank. It's NOFA. It's the Intervale, Circle 3 Vermont, beating the Valley Alliance, the Land Access Opportunity Board, and the Sustainable Jobs Fund, and we're bringing on more partners and allies, to really make this road map a reality. So we're I know we've talked about this last year, and we're excited to be back and talk to you about it. Joe had to talk all about three squares, and I just want to emphasize that three squares is not enough. There are people who aren't qualify for it who still can't That's

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: why I was hoping that you would talk about a little bit about, again, what senator Major started down that question line about the people who were following through the cracks.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: Yeah. So there there are people who are you know, qualified for Three Squares Vermont but still can't make those ends meet. Food security is food insecurity is financial insecurity. Right? There's plenty of food at the grocery stores just so people are making choices in their daily lives about where the resources they have go. So the Vermont Food Bank serves around 70,000 people a month, and that's from reports that we get from the numbers we serve at our veggie ban goes around the state and reports we get from our two thirty plus food shelf, we have site partners in in every town in in Vermont. A lot of those are from the same people because we know that Three Squared Vermont benefits do not last a whole month. They're not meant to. They're not meant to be the entire food budget Right. Of a of a family, so there is a lot of overlap there, but but we're serving more people than that Three Squares Vermont. Last year, you helped pass the From Honor Steven from Partners program, thank you very much for that, and helped make the appropriation happen. We've been having a great relationship with the Agency of Agriculture Food and Markets, and the $500,000 was granted to the food bank, and we spent that between July 1 and October 6, and so we know we can spend the entire $2,000,000. In fact, it would give us the flexibility to be able to do forward contracting more effectively. So we are actually contracting with farmers right now for next year's crop, and the timing of the state fiscal year doesn't align well with the timing of how farmers grow food, right? By July 1, it's knowing how much money we're getting, it's too late to plan forward with that money. So having a stable source at a larger number would have us gives us the opportunity to have a larger impact, and the consistency for the farms we're working, both large and small. Also, someone asked about multiplier, every purchase of local food grown locally has a 60¢ multiplier, so for every dollar we spend, and Vermonters being Vermonters, it brings $1.6 of economic activity to The States. I won't go over the asks again, because you've heard

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: them a couple times, and I know that they're in the record here. Help us understand just a little bit better, though, on these asks again about what he dropped last year. Sure. That's very, very helpful to us.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: So the Food Bank's asks of a total of 5,000,000 is 2,000,000 for commanders feeding Vermonters, and last year, we got $500,000 in onetime funding, dollars 2,000,000 in in onetime funding to directly support our network partners. Last year, that was $1,000,000 in one time funding, and we're seeking $1,000,000 in base funding for responsive readiness to work with emergency management to be prepared for both natural and manmade disasters. And last year, if you got no funding there, that would mean Welcome to the party. Yeah.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: We That's the same thing that we did.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: The base funding because we can't make the operational changes, not knowing that the funding's gonna continue year after year. Yep. I also wanted to point out that Leslie Whiston testified. Thank you, Leslie. There's a three squares working group in Vermont with the advocacy organizations and the economic services division. They do a great job. They really do a good job of of outreach and of coordinating with all of us. We're all we all have the same mission. Right? We wanna make sure that everyone in Vermont is getting the food that they need every day. So I just wanna say kudos out to our state partners.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: What do you got what what do say your organization is buying from Vermont? I mean, we don't you know, we love love for every benefit to come from Vermont, but

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: just just So so we are spending this year, we'll spend probably 1 and a half to $1.07 1,750,000.00 Yeah. In Vermont produce. So in in addition to the state funding, we also use some of our philanthropic funding. Yep. And I'd love to actually

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: You have to we're gonna we're gonna get everybody in. We're we're this It's an important subject, and

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yeah.

[John Sayles (CEO, Vermont Foodbank)]: But I I do wanna turn it over to to the folks who are seeing what's happening on the ground. Yep. And I think we'll have Emmett Mosley here from the Chamberlain Valley, CBOEO Yep. And also Bob Chappell from Shell's Potatoes. And so why don't we start with Emmett?

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Yeah. And I'll let Bob play the lead up.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Great to jump. Thank you, guys. So?

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: We doing okay on time? We're going on the

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: whole thing. We have Doctor. Hook here. He'll get you if you're too long. All right. Yeah, feel free

[Emmett Moseley (Addison County Food Hub Supervisor, CVOEO – Feeding Champlain Valley)]: to jump in. Like the forest gulf of Vermont Food and Security. I've worked at almost all of these organizations doing all these jobs over the years, so I could speak to a lot of different areas there. Thank you to the committee and to the Food Security Council for inviting me to speak here. I'm here to talk to you about how you can support the work that so many of us are doing to keep our neighbors fed. My name is Emmett Moseley. I live in Lincoln. I'm the Addison County Food Hub supervisor at CVOEO's Feeding Champlain Valley. Feeding Champlain Valley is CVOEO's network of food security programs across Addison, Chitlin, Franklin, and Grand Isle Counties. The network consists of four food pantries, three food hubs for filling online orders for home delivery and community pickup, as well as commercial kitchen producing hot meals and packaging meals for distributions. In 2025

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Are you doing that to feed people, or are you doing it to, like, a CSA? No, All of

[Emmett Moseley (Addison County Food Hub Supervisor, CVOEO – Feeding Champlain Valley)]: our programs are strictly for free. Your commercial kitchen is producing hot meals that are fed on-site at the drop in center in the whole North End, and then packaging freezing meals that we can distribute through the food pantries and as well as other sites, cold weather shelters, day stations, and our sort of network of food pantries. We have a pantry in Richford, St. Albans, Boldworth, and Burlington, and in Middlebury, where I was. In 2025, our program supported over 12,000 people, those programs served folks who are living unhoused in Burlington to farm workers who are working on dairy farms in Franklin and Addison County to folks living in all over the world communities across the state. So we deliver to hand power, we deliver to Orwell, we deliver to Sheldon, and all the towns in Eastern Grand Island. So we've cast a pretty wide net. And I'm here today to specifically ask us to support the request for a $5,000,000 appropriation that other folks have mentioned for FY27, and like I said, I've worked in the food security field here in Vermont for about fifteen years. John and I actually started out right about the same time, and I worked as a cleaner, so going on to farms and harvesting vegetables before they're tilled in. I've worked doing Three Squares outreach work, home visits. I worked as a chef, educator, a delivery driver, administrator, and now sort of a logistics supervisor. I've sat in people's living rooms to help them scan all of their Medicaid receipts, to help them get qualified for specific deductions, to increase their three squares allotment, so I've seen that kind of administrative burden up close, which I think is why the request for extra funding to provide that administrative support is so key. You know, I've been fed meals at people's, just when I show up to deliver food. I end up eating dinner. So a lot of up close experience here. And I think one trend that I've witnessed throughout my time in fields, the sort of steady progression from food pantries and meal sites being considered an emergency backstop, something that was meant for an occasional disruption in life, a job loss, medical emergency, family transition, to year upon year, they become more and more baseline support for people, so as John was saying, their economic support. I think that that trend has really tracked with the steady demise of cash welfare payments through other types of programs. The folks we see are really seeing us to meet their monthly food budgets every single month, According to some research that was done by Doctor. Meredith Niles at UVM across 2024 to 2025, 95% of Vermont households who utilize food pantries like ours have somebody in there who is after working, in school, disabled, or retired, and about 70% of our food pantry visitors are also receiving three square foot benefits. These programs really overlap in complementary health care, And I think those numbers just kind of underscore the reality that those of us who work in the field see every day, that the community members who we serve are simply relying on us as part of their monthly budget that we see. We see folks, the same people every single month. So once you kind of come around to that way of thinking about it, I think it becomes kind of incumbent upon us to be providing people with the healthiest, most nutritionally dense, and wherever possible, locally produced food, Because this isn't a quick stop, you know, that someone's gonna hopefully get out of quickly, it's really something that people are relying on every single month. So I think the really hopeful thing about this trend is that we've actually built a lot of capacity within the charitable food system to provide these types of really healthy and nutritionally dense food. So in 2025, Phoenix Champlain Valley spent about $100,000 on local produce, meat and dairy across our sites. About half of those funds were passed through the various programs like Vermonters, Feeding Vermonters, and some of the other direct network payments. So we spent those funds on producers sort of at every scale, so we buy from some of the largest food producers, line of the farms in Addison County, maple meadow eggs, to some of the smallest. Firefly Fields in Bristol, two acre farm, then we purchased CSA specifically to serve migrant farmworkerhouses. They're able to grow crops like epazote, pick them up, items that people really demand, but that we don't really have access to here. At this point, we are distributing about 300,000 pounds of produce through our network through 2025, and we'd really like to see more and more of that be sourced locally, if possible, because in my career, I've seen the engagement of our agricultural community. I've seen farmers who are themselves struggling donate produce, invite us into their fields to harvest, harvest, make space for us in their coolers, to hang on with food so that it doesn't go bad before you have a chance to pick it up, and I feel that those folks really deserve the need for this report that they provide us. So, we're gonna just wrap it up there. We appreciate your time, and I appreciate your consideration. Being you've been through the gamut, as we've been as through, do have for Vermont through wintertime? Because, you know, from spring to fall, obviously we had Bruggems and all. So during the winter months, which we rely on there to see produce as far as Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of our producers have gotten much better at growing specifically for storage markets. Know, folks who are I know, but

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: I can probably speak to it

[Emmett Moseley (Addison County Food Hub Supervisor, CVOEO – Feeding Champlain Valley)]: a little bit better than that, but, you know, I mean, in terms of we're still distributing from our growing sweet potatoes, hot potatoes, poached shells, carrots, onions, a lot of the staple crops that we want that have a good shelf life, that are really accessible, that everybody basically knows how to cook with, are things that we can produce in large quantities. That's good to hear. Yeah. Mean, they've been in the field that's a good one to ask. Yeah, absolutely. In terms of just from a person who helps operate a food pantry, lot of those crops are the things that we really want because the turnover doesn't have to be quite as quick. There's less waste because they have a longer shelf life, and it's an easier sell for a lot of our clients. I mean, are plenty of people who want to be eating arugula and fennel and all kinds of different, of the wide, amazing variety of produce we can have, but I think that those staple crops are still kind of the backbone of sort of, that we wanna keep in stock all the time, and that's a lot of stuff. Eat potatoes. Meat, potatoes, eggs, milk. I mean, that's our single biggest food line item for all of our country, is making sure that we have eggs and milk for both of them. Post is a question. Milk, you know, for the last ten years it's been whole milk, you know, we've got 52%, 1%. Have we leaned back now toward more whole milk and Yeah, we buy both, but I would say whole milk is more popular. Distribute probably twice as much whole milk as one Good.

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: Thank you. Thank you. Bennington. All good? Good. Good. Good morning. Morning. Thanks for offering this all this time. Thank you for coming.

[Bob Chappelle (Owner, Chappelle’s Vermont Potatoes, Williamstown)]: We're nothing without you. So my name is Bob. I'm a potato farmer in Williamstown from us. We've been doing this for a little over fifty years. I had a wife before I became a potato farmer. I started being down with technological ladder engineer, math teacher. How many acres I'm happy Right now we're down to 25 acres. I should say right up front. My wife and I just turned 80 this past Sunday. You're just a young man because Janet, I think is in her nineties. Do you know Janet? Yeah. Janet Peasley. I just picked her up there for a meeting the other night. Her husband, Bert Peasley, was a mentor to me. I've known him very, very well. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wanted to be just like Bert easily. I started out. So, yeah, we used to be 55, 60 acres, and we'd come down. At one point, we produce about a million in the average pounds a year. Now we're yeah. About half of that. Why? Why? Because we we scale back to 25 acres of your choice. Yes. Like I said, we're 80 and, labor becoming a problem. Yeah. I could use help, like like dairy farmers, we need help year round, and most of the health programs that are allowed legally are seasonal for for nine months to a year. It's like programs. So labor has been a real challenge. I'm one of the Vermonters, speaking Vermonters. I'm part of the food bank program. I've been for five plus year. I have trouble I can't spit out exact numbers anymore. Just one. Yeah. I guess, I'll give you, like, a tenth of ten year range, and it's probably be statistically a little bit. So, just, I gotta tell you this, the game I'm in, okay, dairy farmers, we all know the the wall they're up against, and it's a long haul, and God bless them for hanging in there. With the produce, in my case, it's, it's a new game every year and it's a roll of the dice literally. I mentioned before that I, I've never bought a lottery ticket in my life. I'm not inclined to gamble, but somehow I ended up in a profession where I'm literally gambling every year. So on '25 acres, you know, so just to give you an idea, you know, get my last paycheck. It's usually, you know, in June because we're on, like, thirty day cycle, but potatoes usually gone sometime in May. And we don't get start getting paychecks until October. So we have a dry start. You're a legislator? Am I? No. It is. I was on the select board. Pete, yep. You know that. We know that too. Yeah. Okay. So, anyway, this, the food bank offers a corporate contract, and you've heard that. It's it's really unusual in in, the produce. We roll the dice, grow a crop. The problem is there's a big and it's really a huge market now. And I'm a little dropped literally in an ocean. But it's not just that there's a lot of potatoes produced in Aroussia County. It could be in Idaho and in Canada. It affects the market. The chain stores we've delivered to back when they were still in business, Grand Union, and Price Chopper for a little while. Hannaford's for the most part from Barry up to the Canadian border. We it's would Are you doing that? I I apologize. You're fine. You're talking about. Are you doing that delivery, or are you contracting on CSA? Or We're literally the Jack Jack. We do everything. We do our bookkeeping, shapes your, you know, everything. My wife for years was the truck driver, which was great because that allowed me to, you know, be in the packing story. We were packing. At at one point, we were we were packing and, delivering somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 tons of potatoes a week. That's a lot of it's not like strawberries. I mean, if you have a 50 pound bag of potatoes, it's 50 pounds, but it's not as much. You don't get as much as you would for a kind of strawberry. It's Right. Yeah. And then we we try to get somebody to deliver using our truck, but didn't work out very well. Within a month, we had complaints that, you know, for example, in the heifers, whereas we only had nine at the time. That's that's a lot, but it was it's a finite number. And then that complains about this friend of ours that was doing the delivery who wasn't as nice as my wife would tell whoever, whatever, you know, basically, no. You can go to help with a smile on her face, and everybody was smiling when she left. This guy did not ask that that Bedside Manor? Yeah. Bedside Manor. And so and when now I'm doing the delivery myself, which is a problem because when I'm not there, things don't always go smoothly. But this forward contract, I guess, is very unusual and it was it's very important to us. The pricing is fair. Like I said, if the market's down because of supply, that's where the chain stores and the wholesalers are because, you know, it's a it's a money game. So I our our experiences think very good with the two things. Alright. And then just to add on what Joanna and Liz, is that correct? We're talking about Leslie. Is that okay. Sorry. We have one full time employee. I used to have a client, but they're just not around anymore. And they wanna do what we do, which is everything. And so I'm dependent on part time. I had I had several part time people that, I've had to, cut their hours back, because we suffered dramatically in this drought. It's the first crop failure I've had in fifty three years. We lost 80% of the crop. So I'm out of potatoes now. And I had a contract with Food Bank that I I really couldn't fulfill. And it was a contract all I could take up at the food bank this year. I had nothing through the group or the wholesalers. Anyway, this particular woman needed some help. She was suffering from food insecurity. And to an extent, my wife and I are too. We're here. We're just, you know, money. Do you understand? There's a fixed amount of money that I decided to do with it. Yeah. She, given this, apply and everything, it was, very difficult to deliver. And, and it's very she needed these benefits. So three squares snap offered. So I up until we got involved with Food Bank, our potatoes were going to the stores. All my neighbors knew who I was. My neighbors are extended neighborhood. You know, I go to a parts store. Should bell, you know. But there's a big part of our neighborhood population that depend on food bank, food shelves that they serve, and staff. I'm I feel real good about our product getting into those things and those people. So let me just see. I think I think I'm pretty good there. I know I'm just

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: getting short here. Thank you. Pretty. Just one, do you have any young farmer that's seeing what you're doing and wants to

[Bob Chappelle (Owner, Chappelle’s Vermont Potatoes, Williamstown)]: Well, met with my language yesterday, I sort of were trying to get back into the games one more time. This is the problem with where I have so much money thrown out there. Easily have gone through this. I know, like, third and fourth generation farms. Just one year, they're wiped out. Oh, yeah. We literally have $100,000 in this farm. We're gonna get it's gonna be about a 100,000 out of it, but that's just gonna pay back the line of credit. It doesn't pay the bills or the labor. But

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: I got off the track. Well, do you have anyone that is looking

[Bob Chappelle (Owner, Chappelle’s Vermont Potatoes, Williamstown)]: Oh, yeah. So I yeah. They suggested I start getting serious about, okay, old age is creeping in here. Don't believe them. Don't believe them. Yeah. You're doing fine. So my my parents and grandparents and same on my wife's side would all live well into their nineties and were productive to the end. I wanna die with my boots on. I have to go with the intention of backing off. Just hope I die, fall off the tractor rather than get run over by you. That's a better way to go. Depends on how it went. Yeah. We're trying we're trying to see if we can carry this up. Thank you very much. Thank you. Did everybody had a chance to say what they wanted to say? We want thank you all for coming in.

[Senator Joseph "Joe" Major (Vice Chair)]: Thank you. Appreciate the

[Senator Russ Ingalls (Chair)]: time. Yeah. Thank you very much. We'll, we, we heard what you said. Thank you.

[Joanna Doran (Local Food Access Director, NOFA-Vermont)]: Thank you.