Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Good morning again, Senate Agriculture back in business. We are going to spend some time with the folks that make it for the reason that we're here and we're very honored to have in a bunch of farmers but specifically Vermont Dairy Produces Alliance. As everyone in this room as far as in the committee knows we are charged with making sure that everything that we do protects Vermont farmers. Whether it's dairy or agriculture or anything, anybody that puts their hands in the soil, anything that goes on. We have in this room by all accounts and everybody that's come in here a very committed group of five and six with Linda making sure that anything that we can do to make your lives easier we do and there's lots of things that we wish we could do more and better. But we don't allow politics into this room. We don't care whether you're Republican, Democrat, Progressives, nothing. We care that you guys are farmers. This committee is awesome. Again, we wish that we could do more. I also want to commend you on a very excellent, excellent video that you've got out there with the Monument Farms. Just probably one of the better videos I've ever seen, not just because you're saying that, I mean because you folks are in here. I've been telling you a very impactful video that tries to tell people why you do what you do. I was in Middlebury last year with the Champlain Farmers Coalition. One of the things that I asked them, they had a bunch of young farmers up there. I wanted them to tell and I asked the question, could you please tell somebody who doesn't know why you do what you do, why you do it? And it was for the young farmers. Now I expected to hear, oh well you know I go up there and I like patting my father's goat and know and no we heard stories of people, young farmers talk about debt aversion, risk aversion and what they do and how they do and very very very touching about what they did. So I just want to tell you that you guys touch all of us and again, we are here for you. We wish that we could just wave the magic wand and make milk $28 a 100. We wish that we could keep it from flooding or from droughts and all that, but we will do with what we could do, and we want to thank you for being here on this. Well, who wants to lead

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: off? Kevin.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: I guess I'll kick it off. Kevin Corey with Phoenix Feeds And Nutrition out

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: of New Haven, Vermont. Could you see that there? Yep.

[Kevin Corey (Phoenix Feeds & Nutrition; Acting Chair, Vermont Dairy Producers Alliance)]: It'd be right here. Okay. Then I'll go

[David (Mad River Valley dairy farmer)]: to the Yeah.

[Kevin Corey (Phoenix Feeds & Nutrition; Acting Chair, Vermont Dairy Producers Alliance)]: Kevin Corey, Phoenix Feeds and Nutrition at New Haven, Vermont. I'm the current acting chair for this group. You don't really need to hear from me today, so I wanna pass it over to all the young people here that represent our dairy community to tell their story. You.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Just

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: the rule is you gotta tell us who you

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: are. Okay.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: And where you're from,

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: I'm and where you're from, Stephanie Toth, and we have

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: a medium farm operation on the short of Lake Champlain in Bridgeport. Yep. I am the third generation, and my son, Robbie, is here today And with he told the doctor the other day he wanted to be informed of generation.

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: So that is my one. Right?

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: And what else do you want to?

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Whatever you want to sell.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: What are your issues? How are you diversifying? Yeah. What are you doing to stay afloat? How did

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: the drought affect you?

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: The drought has affected us in ways we don't know yet. You know what I mean? Right off the bat, we were a thousand tons short on corn. Is that gonna cost us between 75 and $82,000 just to buy that corn, it's much more than that. I don't think we realize, and we'll see what this crop year brings. You know what I mean? Because I think we're in a perfect storm right now, is what I call it, from the drought and the depressed milk prices, well, the prices are getting even worse, right? So, we haven't even dug out from the last year or two and then have the weather events that we've had. So, we're in for a year, and I think I don't know how many farms are in Vermont now, but I think there's gonna be

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: a lot

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: 32, I think. Yeah.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: I think there's gonna be a lot less of us at the table next year, unfortunately. So couple of things that, you know, that right off the bat, like, that I think about, you know, New York is right next door to us, and they have a 20% tax credit up to a $3,000,000 capital investment. And here in April I'll get a bill that I have to give you guys for the state $1,500 to ship my milk. I don't know what it is for large farms.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: 2,500.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Right. Know, stuff like that.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: So we just got the governor's asked that to go away. We're

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: gonna Yeah, I approve did get that.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: So thank you. Massachusetts, they have a safety net for milk prices in Maine. They don't know about New Hampshire, Can't speak to New Hampshire. So those things, you know, our neighbors are doing things that they can, and I know everything is limited, but I think, like I said, we're at $4.38. Is that what you said?

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: It's pretty well in there. Yeah.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Next year we're not gonna have $4.30, and it's not gonna be more.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: Is something that's brought up to us by a lot of farmers, how Vermont does not do what our neighbor states are doing for farmers. And it's not that we don't want the state You've of Vermont does want got 19,000,000 people plus in New York, 7,000,000 in New Hampshire. We don't have the people to help. And it's not that we don't want it because we would pass that bill, I think, quickly. Yes. But then where does the money come from?

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Right. And the one thing that I, you know, I think it's an old number now, probably seven or eight years old, but there was a number that a dairy cow produced $13,000 into the local economy. I can think I can speak to most farms, 99% of our money stays local.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: Right.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: And there's a lot of $13,000 a year. Yeah. So, like I said, I know we're not the only people in this state, but I think we do bring a lot of money to this state as well.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Well, question. Well, the state, local economy, everything. I mean, you Between everything, you're 9,200,000,000.0. You are the same amount of dollars, dairy and all, but everything. All farming in the state of Vermont is almost identical to what the state budget is right now, dollars 9,400,000,000.0. So we recognize that very much. Just so know, was

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: a dairy farmer, we're 86, and we got in that, what was the herd viability time, because we were facing the same thing.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Yeah, and that's good question we ask ourselves every day. Is it worth it? And like I said, I have this guy here. I have a 26 year old niece who is invested, so I guess I'm the tweener that, know, we're looking at, you know, our farm, it's limiting factor of the efficiency and it's it's aging facilities. So I'm looking at a 4 and a half million dollar investment to make it so these guys can be set up. You know what I mean? So that's fine. Yep. I like the bad stuff.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: Thank you very much, Stephanie. Don't make me pick. Good morning. Good morning. I'm Jordan Ann Bippel.

[Jordan Ann Bippel (Berkshire dairy farmer)]: I have a dairy farm in Berkshire, Vermont. I eat operate it with my three brothers, sister-in-law. My mom is active, and my dad's retired, but still going. We milk around 800 cows. We need to do some sugaring. Last year, we started to put up a corn bin, and we're gonna cornmeal big old cornmeal. So it's kinda how we are trying to diversify to keep going, bring costs down where we can. We operate three pounds. Well, we have to weigh three pounds. Try not to go too far. Keep costs down there too. How many acres are you cropping? 800 acres or so of corn and a little more grass. Yes. Been off. We bought a dairy farm last year in the spring where we're dumping now as well, so we grew. So but yeah. Are you having trouble with the workforce? No. Not too bad. No. Yes. We're okay. I think it could be better always. Hard to find help all the time, but we have neighbors and stuff that help us. My friend, he helps us quite a bit as well, but he can't. So we have a pretty good group of people. Yeah. And a pretty good network of farmers. Yeah. Exactly. Like, Bradley, he's my neighbor, and he calls over he I call him. We try to help each other out where we can. Yeah.

[David (Mad River Valley dairy farmer)]: It's great.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: What's the lending situation like for you as you were trying to grow? I mean, did you have to borrow? Do have what you wanted to do? Was there capital available for you? Yeah.

[Jordan Ann Bippel (Berkshire dairy farmer)]: Went my brothers and I, we started our own company, and we went through NRCS, Farmers Loan. Mhmm. So we used that for farm, and the rest of my parents also helped as well. Had collateral, obviously. Nice. It's still tough. You borrow a bunch of money, and now you have to pay it back, obviously. You know, one year into it, everything, you know, it crashes, but, you know, it's still there. You know? So you have to keep that going. Yeah. That doesn't go away. You're kind

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: of gonna decrease the fees.

[Jordan Ann Bippel (Berkshire dairy farmer)]: So, yeah. Yeah. So, Stephanie, mentioned worry. I don't think it's any secret to anyone in this world for that. Dairy farms have been attractive. I appreciate your your diversifying and trying to figure out other revenue streams. How much is that weighing on seeing other farms and then how how you can

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: not be that farmed that just went up.

[Jordan Ann Bippel (Berkshire dairy farmer)]: Well, mean, it's it's a fine line. It doesn't take much. One big hiccup here Mhmm. Where, should put you under pretty quick. I mean, no one's making any money, so Sure. It doesn't take much where something happens or you can't pay the bills. So I don't think many farmers are, too excited about this year or are gonna try to coast through. And how many years do people coast through every year? Obviously, less and less. Right? So I I'm I'm gonna echo what senator Ingalls said. Our our main mission, and I and I want you to know this, is to to help you and everyone in this. I want you to

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: know our names, and I apologize, so that you guys can reach out to any one of us at all times or whatever, so we'll start on this so I

[Jordan Ann Bippel (Berkshire dairy farmer)]: can hear you right there. Senator Major from Windsor, Vice Chairs.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: Senator Heffernan from Addison County District.

[Sen. Robert Plunkett (Member, Bennington District)]: And I'm Robert Plunkett, senator from Bennington District.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Brian Collamore from the Rutland District. And Russ Ingalls from Essex Of Orleans and chair of the committee.

[Jordan Ann Bippel (Berkshire dairy farmer)]: And I say that, and I'm glad, Senator Ingle, touched that, is because, you often hear, you know, that cliche that, yeah, you work for us. You kinda do. You do. And and for me, in particular, and I I grabbed him a lot. Agriculture, I had I had no before getting into the senate, no experience in it. But when I was put on here, it was the best thing that happened. Absolutely the best thing

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: that happened. Mount the cow for the first time. Yes.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: That's that's true. Just water. Yes. Just water. We all just.

[Jordan Ann Bippel (Berkshire dairy farmer)]: When saw it come out, I was like, oh my god. You know? But it went to more fairs this year, and it was it's just very good to talk to dairy farmers and and the like. But I I say that in that you have you're going through it, and you you know a lot of times what can and can't happen. And so it's important that you communicate to us on a consistent basis. Tell us what's happening. Tell us your thoughts because, and there are things, like Senator Heffernan said, that we can't do, but there may be some things that we can't. So, it's important that you continually communicate with us and and let us know, what's going what's actually going on in the ground. And, I have visited more farms than than I could have ever in my life, and it was a it's been a very cool experience. So my brother, he started a YouTube channel six years ago, and so we do have a presence on YouTube and we show our show our operations and what we do and just how we run our farm. So we try to contribute that way as well. So If you could send that link to me, that that

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: would be awesome. Will do.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Thank you. Very good.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: I also just wanna note that farm, there'll be more episodes coming out. Oops.

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: So I

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: just wanna make sure that you guys see them. I'll put them all in your inbox.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: That'd be great. Thank you. Yep. Well, you you all have plenty to say. It's really hard. Yeah.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Go ahead.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: Yeah. Alright.

[David (Mad River Valley dairy farmer)]: What's up? My name is David. Family farms through the Mad River Valley. Our farms are born in Vermont with about 600,000. And I, again, I think some of the important things to me, I don't really come to this kind of stuff, but hearing about what's in the pipeline, what we just talked about upstairs, that's that's important to me. It's not so much like a lifeline. Obviously, it's gonna be a tough year and it's what ever can't hear me. We hopefully, you guys understand how we're priced and maintenance. I'll do that. We choose our leads or commodity, you know, kinda know what we're in for. But, you know, protect protecting our ability to farm and our ability to make good decisions, and we all wanna do what's right and and put some layers of protection in place. As far as, you know, the future goes, you talked about building a barn. You guys are buying farms. I think we're all in the same boat. We just built a barn last year. And, right, about 3 and a half million dollars and build a barn, and then price of milk goes down. And and it's okay because, you know, we're not doing this for the next twelve to eighteen months. We're doing this for, you know, I mean, we're doing this for my career. And and I I think there's some shortcomings with some of these programs. I'll talk to Kevin about a little bit that maybe you guys could step up with. But probably the important thing for me is is that we're, you know, our our rights are protected in America. You know? We sign up for this in in very long all of our investments are very long term. And and to be able to do those pay those back and and enjoy what we do. It's a privilege to get the farm right. Everybody can I mean, people get to do it? Right?

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: So Less and less. Right? When when I talked to to the group in Middlebury last year, one of the, you know, guys. But I'm not on my tractor, 27 years old. I'm not on my tractor doing what I wanted to do when I was 12. And that's very, very touching stuff. I'm living my dream. I'm living my life. I'm doing what I wanted to do my whole life. And we do recognize that it isn't the eighteen months you're trying to survive, it's the rest of your life. We just want to do everything we can do get you through there. You probably already heard we are working on some very strong language. We've the Supreme Court decision. We've kind of identified the Supreme Court decision, meaning that you guys are going be regulated by town zoning. We kind of see that the Supreme Court really didn't look at the overall picture, but of all things, they basically said, well, picture language, picture language. And we're doing that. And so we hope to have, when we're all said and done, we hope to have Well, we're working on language right now, and we'll be working on it next week, where we're going to get what we the 85% of your rights back so that you can have the right to harm without I think that there's a consensus that we want to get there. I don't think that there's a lot of pushback within I think there's probably some people that want to push back. We certainly see the lawsuits that go on and all that, but I think the overall flavor in this building is to get you back bolus as much as we can get you back. We just kind of want a little bit of a legal battle, something I haven't been on the committee about the agency of agriculture being able to help you out with the necrotoise treated seed coming through and we're going talk about more about it as well, I don't want to get ahead of it, but I'm thinking what it's basically saying is that if there's no seeds available that are comparable to what that you need to grow the type of corn that needs to be, give you the tonnage and the quality of it that the agency of agriculture will have the rights to give you a permit so that you can Sikh that will do that. So we will talk a little bit more about that. I don't want to get a heads up that. So there are things that we are very well aware of as well that we know the support for you, but as Senator Major said as well, it doesn't mean that you don't keep on telling us all of those things. Those are all these things that are hard to us. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So David, you mentioned the Reg the Farm. This committee last year was able to put in effect, we thought, more protection for the farming community. Always made me scratch my head that somebody would move next to an existing farm and then complain about it. If you move next to an airport, you shouldn't be amazed that there are actually planes coming and going from time to time. So I didn't know if anybody here had been affected by that right to Farm Bill. It's pretty new. Probably wanted to affect July 1. And whether it was enough protection or whether there were tweaks that you hope we get to that we didn't. No? Okay then. Just talk about it with us as it is as well. Another big thing that we're working on as well, and we're still tweaking on it, and it's still environmentalists are still after our cable permits. We're still trying to keep protection from all of that. Unfortunately, the Vosservillts are under attack over there, and now they're trying to include pile drains and a lot of that stuff. We are fighting that tooth and nail. And the reason why we have to fight that is so that you don't have to spend money to fight it. Because, again, you shouldn't have to be writing checks to fight those battles. You really, really should. It should be

[David (Mad River Valley dairy farmer)]: us that do it for you. Or scared to do productive practices correctly.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Exactly. Right, right, exactly. I know and I hear it all the time, and you guys can always correct us if we're wrong, but we do believe that you guys are the true environmentalists, that nobody goes out there to do anything harmful to anything that you have because it's how you got to live. What you're going do, you've to ask the land to give back to you and you're not gonna do harmful things to the land, so that won't do that. But it's down to the disagreement with some folks that just really don't even want you to be farming. They really, really don't. And so that's why we fight those battles. I gotta ask you this.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: I mean, this this is something that the farming community has struggled with, and you said it at the top of your testimony. You're young. Why did you get in the park?

[David (Mad River Valley dairy farmer)]: I mean, two answers. Right? One, I love it. Second one is I saw a good opportunity. Mhmm. And I I come I obviously came from a farm family. Been around family for over a hundred years, but I I had quite a bit of exposure growing up to to the mom and dad had divorced, and and my mom had no part of the farm. I got to travel a lot, and I've I've seen a lot of stuff. Anyway, all my best memories were on the farm. And I do have kids now, and and so you're gonna shift that opportunity to the next generation.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: Very cool. Thank you. Thank you, dear. Appreciate it. Thanks.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Mine's pretty short. Don't forget.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: No. You're very funny.

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: So I only work, like, part time on my parents' farm. So specific questions I won't be able to answer, but I also teach Ag Science at the local high school. Name first. Jenny Hall.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Where are you from?

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: Franklin, Vermont.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: And

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: I work with BDP, it's their

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: communication, so I've got some ways to go on. But I have a lot

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: of students that are like very passionate about the ag industry and every month we look at the numbers drop from the UVM report and that makes a pretty big impact on their plans. Like these kids in the next four years are entering the work field, half of

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: them already work on neighboring farms,

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: and they wanna, maybe, a lot of them want a farm, but a lot of them are very interested in custom harvesting or drag lining or the things that have developed for progressive dairy, and they're very aware that if they don't have people to buy those services from them, then

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: what are they gonna do? So,

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: there is like an interested future outside of like, most of us here probably grew up on a farm. I want to say like every single person here grew up on a farm. It's a hard thing to get into as a first generation farmer. There has to be a passion there, but there are a lot of kids that work on farms or are in Franklin County or Addison County that have the passion to get into the industry and are aware of what's going

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: And we're aware of that as well. One of the things that we're passionate about is that we don't care what size you are. If you're small, we are going to protect you as hard as we can. Peach Greens started selling vegetables at the end of his family's driveway out of the family garden. And now he's one of the largest organic producers of vegetables in New England. We had Lerv in here the other day. He was reading the review board and they were talking about, Oh, we're gonna put restrictions right now. Listen, No, you can. But what you're doing is you're taking that woman who is growing or baking 12 loaves of bread a day and selling them and somehow figuring out how she's making a living doing that. And we will fight you on that. You want to restrict her as far as her abilities to be where she used to be? We will fight you on that. And we will. And it's just so we understand. We understand that we have to grow farmers in any way that we can and gonna, most of them are gonna start out small and we're their voice and we will swing with everything we have to make sure that that person can get a foothold.

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: Some of the generation to generation, there's

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: a farmer, think they're in

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: Hermes County actually, Troy, but they grew up in Montreal and their parents got like a second home on Jay and said, the boys need to find some summer work, and now he's taking over an organic farm that he's worked on since he was 12. And that's, yeah, it's one of the only stories I know where like it wasn't a second generation, but this retired farmer didn't have a second generation coming on and you have to, there has to be a good enough opportunity that people can see that they're gonna make a living when they pursue that as their passion, so.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Thank you, everybody. I'll sit here. Probably just.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: Please have Bradley Senior at Farming for Shear with my parents and my brother. Fourth generation dairy farm. My great grandfather migrated from Quebec. He had a farm up there, small farm, and came to Sheldon Roux in '57, started farming. My grandfather was one of 11. He bought his father in law's farm. Always show up, he got a wife and a farm for $22,000 And he farmed, sold his house in 'six. We still farm in San Jose, and my father graduated in 1985, started milking cows on his own in 'eighty six. Then here we are in 2026, me and my brother are both in our late 20s and trying to purchase a farm from my mother and father. Growing up, we're an LFO, so we get inspected every year. And growing up, I would see the days leading up to the inspection and the days after more of my mom, it would impact her negatively, but it would impact my dad negatively too. It was historically kind of a downtime in family's year, and I always thought, you know, that's one of the first things that my mom, I don't know, pawned off on me and my brother, but she was willing to give that up. Know? To be honest, I was naive and eager. Was like, I'll take that on. I'll I'll do the firearm inspection every year, and you can ask my wife, but it's quickly become the worst day of my year, every single year. And besides, like, if an employee got injured or we had an accident or something like that, it's the consistent worst day of the year. And you touched on the CAFO and the thing that farmers are facing currently with A and R stuff, the CAFO stuff, the Agency of Agriculture, depending on how much energy you have. Depending on how upside down the farm is, I'm gonna try to go to that CAFO meeting after this in Essex. And I've been on a lot of the Zooms, and I've been blessed being a wife. I have two girls and and two sons, and I pray all of them farm, but I'm gonna settle for a majority. So three out of four have the farm. It's off the native into it. But I just really wonder, you know, you get done that LFO inspection and you feel beaten and you feel just terrible about yourself, but then you look around at the cows and the cows are healthy and talk to some coworkers that are healthy, happy, and you gotta get a little pride in what you're doing, what you bring into the local community, and I feel like for too long you've been pushed down and beaten. I was talking to someone the other day, I never thought that there's a possibility that the regulations could get worse, or that day, year could be worse. But now with this KPO talk, and this ANR talk, I really don't know what's gonna happen, you know? Are we gonna quit? Absolutely not, you know? We'll fail before we quit. That's not an option. But I I I'm starting to think about my children, you know, and what's it gonna be like for them, you know? Because we need this thing to survive, this profitable enough for them to come back. And luckily, my my father grew the grew the business, and it was successful enough that me and Jamie could come back, and he rates our families on the farm, and we're thankful for that. And we do some diversity. We have sugar bush as well and stuff. Starting to constantly think more about my kids and what the future's gonna be for them. My agriculture, I'm a I got picked on my school in New York and they always picked on me about how proud I was for being in Vermont. They they said I had an accent. I don't think I do, but I'm just really proud, and they I tell them, you know, the state horse is a Morgan horse. You know? I throw some Vermont facts at them. They pick on me, like, you're but I just feel like it's making it hard to love her, like, talking to Vermont like she's a female. You know? Proud to be Vermont. I served a little bit of the Army National Guard. My grandfather did, and I want my kids to grow up here, want them to go to school here, and it's just getting tougher and tougher to do business after being proud to stay here in Vermont. But keep keep trying to get us, and thanks for letting us come and speak and tell a little bit of our stories.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: I had a wonderful day. I was over there this summer, and it was just a wonderful visit, and so many things stuck with me. Some pleasurable and some not pleasurable, but not on your guys' doing. One of the things not pleasurable was St. Pierre's are putting in a digester to capture the methane gas to pipe into the pipeline and I believe it was a $2,000,000 permit fee, a $2,000,000 permit fee that they had to pay to do the right thing. That to me, and so much so that the company that's footing it says, Well, I don't know how we could ever do this in Vermont again. Very, very troubling as far as that. Then I want to get to the gentler side. First of all, your brother and you were just phenomenal. The amount of, and I'm going say it out loud, the amount of respect and love that you two have for one another is and you wanna talk about factory farms. They're probably the largest farm in Vermont. If you are, you are. But the the love that I saw between two brothers and the respect that you had as far as whether you call it boundaries or whether you call it whatever or trust in that somebody else is doing it. Walking through this calving barn where all the cows are and hearing you talk about, we just want to make sure that they have a good experience as far as to cab out and to cause less stress as to and this is what we do and it's almost like a sanctuary of quietness. I'm surprised there weren't violins playing in Newtown. But it was very, very, very impressive, very impressive, and certainly no such thing as a factory farm or anything like that. I had a really good day, and I really appreciate you folks having Thank me

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: you, Chair. On the inspections when these people come, do any of them really have any background in farming and know If what it they don't, which I'm sure most of them don't, they don't live through your eyes. Yeah.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: So I'm gonna read very candidly. So think I'll so, no, they don't have a lot of experience first of And a lot of times they'll hire these young kids. Like Jenny was saying, they might, Oh, I can't make money milking cows, but I love agriculture. I'll go work with the agency of agriculture that's gonna help farmers, right? Then they get in there, I feel personally they get indoctrinated negatively about modern farming practices, because we'll have a We've had a couple good experiences with some young inspectors that are passionate, want to learn about farming, open, try to be practical, understanding. Oh, two years later, three years later, come back and they're totally different human, or they don't like being tough on farmers or being unfair, in my opinion, so a lot of them try to move on to different position. Nobody wants to do the inspections because it's just such a toxic, tough day, you know what I mean? We just want a little bit of buy in. They don't have much buy in from us because they're not practical. Right? It's a it's a chess match. There's not much trust back and forth. You know? It can it turn negative quick. I try to start the day positive, but usually by the end, I'm pretty negative. And and and and I try to be a pretty positive person, but it kinda just wears you down. You know

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: what mean? Hours do they spend there?

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: So they used to do two full days. So you used to do two full days. Now it's like a ten or eleven hour day. And depending on the inspector, what they find for problems and stuff. And it's a tough day, I'm telling you. Just psychological and stuff, and they make you feel bad, not

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: only are trying to be

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: profitable and have a good business, viable business, they just make you feel, I don't know, evil, negative about what you're doing, what you're trying to accomplish, and they just don't have a lot of practicality to it, know what I mean? In my opinion, over time, that's what I've noticed.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: One of the, if I can add on that, one of the craziest things that we saw with an inspection was the the lady tried to prove a point. So she went into the ditch, and she took the water, and she drank it to try to prove a point that it was she wanted to make sure that it was bad. But I don't and I you're really pushing it if you're gonna go into a ditch to drink the water to prove a point that you're doing something wrong. I think there's better ways to go around that. Improve that, help them finding a problem too. You you said something a little earlier about about feeling bad. I senator Plunkett and I,

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: I think, yesterday or the day before, out some,

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: to me, disturbing things, about the the high rate of suicide in in the farming industry as well as, the the mental health needs that, and it it is more my ignorance that don't are we getting enough? Are we providing us? Is there enough out there? I know that there's some, but is there enough out there for pharmacists? I want to

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: add just one thing to that to help with it, is that we've understood that even on the milk checks that they've given the numbers to the suicide hotline on the milk checks. That's correct.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: Yeah. I I think that the mental health in general raised an issue in Vermont, and definitely, there's a high rate in agriculture now, and I think that there can always be more help. I kinda go the unprofessional route. I just call a neighbor, know, and send to that. Because a lot of people in this room, you know, have I can't say guaranteed, but I would bet a large sum money that all of them have dipped the similar experiences on their farms or had negative ones. And I think it's important to say, like, we consistently lose more and more farmers. Okay? So the ones that are left are, think I think, in my opinion, top quality. And and none of us do mistakes happen, absolutely, but none of us want to hurt our waterways or our local community or our forest or anything. You know, a lot of us are multi generation. We all care about Vermont, and we're aiming to play our part and try our best. And, there's just a big disconnect between us and the agency and the ANR and people like that, you know.

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: There's some culture around mental health stuff too. Like when that came out, or Farmers First came out, stepfather was insulted at the like, instead of pulling us to shore, you're giving us, like, suicide help while we're drowning. So it's, if things are so bad that this is how it is, like, pull us to shore then and so

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: No. I I just in general, I mean, there would you know, there was a time that, you know, any if you talk about going to see a therapist or going to see someone just to talk to, that there's a stigma. I think that's less now. But even, like you said, just someone to talk to who had a relatable experience is sometimes. Yeah. You know?

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Well, I'm on the other side of this. I'm in the in the PEEP business, so I do nutrition work for folks like this in the room. I go in and talk to the kids at UVM once a year, you know, kind of for kind of what Jenny does,

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: and I tell them, well, when you

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: go through school, go get a degree in psychology because they're gonna be talking to Okay? These are the issues that everyone here on the other side of the room is talking about, And a lot of times, it's a a shoulder to cry on. Not literally, but sometimes it is.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Hi. I just wanna add to the farm.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: I'm Can you just Sure.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Take me one hour and Okay.

[Kylie Chittenden (Shoreham dairy farmer)]: I'm Kylie Chittenden. I have a farm in Addison County, in the southern part of the county in Shoreham, and we have a thousand cows. And about the farm first, I have had a positive experience with that. We're the owners of businesses, but behind us is employees. And I watched one of my employees kind of diminishing a little. And this particular person works with sick animals. And so every day, they come in and they are working with the tough part of our farm, regardless of finance or anything like that. And I just noticed this person was blue, and they had tried to get an appointment with a therapist through their doctor, and the wait time was like four months. And so I was thinking about like, how can I support them because they're important to me? And I picked up the phone and tried that number, which we all have seen count like, countless times, and holy smokes, there was, like, a person at an appointment within a week, and my employee was, like, getting stuff and put back inside and feeling better, and there was, like, regular phone calls, and I didn't even care if it was on the clock. I was paying them to have those calls because it's important. So, I guess, I'd like to say I've seen that system work. If there is a stigma around it, it's uncomfortable to tell someone that I think we should get you some extra help. But I appreciate that for this example, and actually I've done that with two different employees, it was pretty darn useful.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: Didn't have his farm first. Yeah. Yeah.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: We used it as well.

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: Yeah. You have to.

[Kylie Chittenden (Shoreham dairy farmer)]: Yeah. Yeah. We used it. And it's a tough conversation to have with someone, but

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: sometimes

[Kylie Chittenden (Shoreham dairy farmer)]: with the people on our farms are sometimes spending more time with us than with their own family, and that's not lost on us. I wanted to say about the right to farm. You guys did a lot of work for us, and, unfortunately, we haven't had to use that. But that's not lost on us because it took a long, long time to get that back on the table. So thank you for your efforts with that. Yep. A few years ago, there was we had some help with the DMC. Yeah. That really benefits the especially the small and medium sized farms. I think I don't I don't know where the money would come from, but that was a positive thing for smaller farms. Maybe more impactful for a farm that's smaller than mine, but still I thought that was a really positive thing. We are in an area of my farm in particular, we're about 4,000 tons short of corn silage. So outside of the cost of well, the milk price declined, that's around $350,000 to my business this year. So this drought thing is really serious. We have beta for borrowing money. We're gonna state. And Ellen and I have had some, I I would say, full conversations. Is that a because I hope you kind of explain

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: that. Okay. Yes.

[Kylie Chittenden (Shoreham dairy farmer)]: We're just talking about how farmers borrow money. And Ellen said to me, because we were talking about the drought money, and she said, well, what tell me what things cost. And so we were talking about harbors, say. And I don't know if someone said it in this meeting, but say 4,000,000, that, like, number came around. Like, 4,000,000. And Vida, for example, if I'm wrong, correct me. But I think if you wanted to borrow money to build a new parlor, let's say that their cap is 5,000,000, maybe we need to look at, like, what things are costing and what access we have to funds because some of these projects are really, really big, and they're kinda outpacing other than firm credit. You have to have other options. So I just wanna throw that out there. Is there a better way to say that, Elle? I mean, you're not you're not wrong. I think access to capital is huge. I think the cost of the capital investment space and bringing infrastructure up to date that is modern and efficient is super costly. If you've got a, you know, people in mind who wanna take over, even if you're gonna do it for the next fifteen, twenty years, It's pertinent to bring your farm up to speed and it costs a ton of money. If you buy 800 acres of land, you're

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: over 4,500,000.0. We

[Kylie Chittenden (Shoreham dairy farmer)]: actually had that conversation last week with our Gita and he said this is actually perfect, that $4,500,000 he said this is perfect because we are going into these conversations to try to get that ceiling higher. He said we are the generation that needs to do that. So we've had that conversation with Gitas.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: So what about So we had I'll tell you, it's just blown my mind a little bit, I've asked a little bit, but we have you in the room, I need you guys to be honest with us. We had an FSA in here the other day, and billions of dollars. Billions. Why aren't we using them?

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Because they don't allow us to use them. Their cap is pretty low. Well, might allow you to get a guarantee that helps with VITA, but if you're not a, I say first timer, a small time, they don't need to talk to you.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: We actually got, sorry for interrupting, but me and my brother did a young farmer loans like, Fernan did. We did it for Sugaring, and we actually got pushed out of the program this year. We got audited. And, because we were profitable sugaring and paid our bills on time, they said, you don't need this good rate anymore. You need to immediately go find different financing. And that's the truth.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: All our entrepreneurs, They I

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: was wondering if you could did that with them. Yeah, that's real.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: They call it graduated. Yeah, exactly what you're saying.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: And so then I asked them, so if I was unprofitable and having a hard time making my payments, then they said, yeah, pretty much that would have been a better

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: know on our business plan, we had the numbers, then she,

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: I'm gonna say who? Yeah.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: She, said, oh, I didn't see this. So instead of the loan being I don't if it was twenty years or twenty five years, it's fifteen now. And, we were happy with where it was, and she told us this at the signing. We're like, what? So we were kinda thrown off on that because the numbers were very different once you go from twenty five to fifty. Yeah. Yeah. So we're like just because there was a mistake on her and him deal. K.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Ken, I leave you with one talk.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: You can leave. Well, you're this is your time.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: This is an exciting time in our industry as much as it is a crummy time with the drought and low prices. We're getting tons of investment in New York specifically, I would say, for processing milk, which gives us a lot of opportunity for future for farming in Vermont. So everything that you can do to support that for us will pay for generations. So I really appreciate what you're doing.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Doug.

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: My name's Oliver Manning. I'm in Swan Kabaugh. I farm with my father, my brother, and nephew of Denise. Currently, there's four generations on our farm. My grandpa's still around, but not doing as much on the farm. But I'd say one of the biggest challenges we face is kind of the juggling act that's going on right now with the agency of ag at ANR. A couple years ago, we had a so we use ag bags, not just bunks to store our feet, and we have a stone pad to keep them on. So our whole farm is basically just one big flat field. My grandfather, many, many years ago, ditched it so that we could have, proper drainage. And, now all of a sudden, all the ditches that we dug are considered streams, so we can't clean them. So the agency came out and said, Well, you have a discharge because the stream is dirty. The water wasn't dirty, but the bottom of the ditch is dirty. And we said yes, because we used to clean these every ten or so years, it's just because in summertime when it's hot and dry, there's not enough slope to it, the water sits there, grows algae, and it's always there. So the problem that we had, the agency came out, they said this tile line may be an area of concern, but we're not sure. So we cleaned it, we cleaned the tile, we re sloped all of our pads so it was sloping away from and exactly how they designed it. That was in the spring The and following spring, we get a letter from ANR with a pretty substantial fine for direct discharging, and we said, well, we already addressed that, and the agency signed off on what we did, and they said, oh, we didn't know that, so we're gonna go talk to them, because they don't talk to each other. So, they, I don't know if they talked to them, they came out to the farm, they looked and they said, Well, there's algae growing in that, well, they call us three. I said, It's been there forever because we can't clean it. So, we still have to pay the fine and do everything. Pay the fine. I think it was 15,000, and they said to us, We don't know where this is coming from. All the tile lines are clean, there's nothing run you know, the area's clean, there's nothing running into the ditch or the stream, but they call it dirty. And the craziest part about this is, is our farm sits, there's a stream right behind our bunks and our manure pits. It comes across the field road and it splits. There's a 60 acre field and it goes both ways, all the way around, touches in the back. The left hand side is a stream, right hand side is a ditch. How do we, know, they tuck on both sides. So it doesn't make, you know, it's just that kind of unclarity that, you know, pushes us to be like, well, what do we do? So the next thing we decided was we're gonna try and either pave or concrete the whole area and then have leachate collection into our manure system. So you try to get funding help for that. First thing they say, we don't fund feed storage. Well, it's like, we're trying to do this to collect water, but it's a huge, you know, it's like three or four acres. We can't pay out of pocket to because we use asphalt. We can't pay out of pocket to do all that. So they they settled on. They they did a small helped us pay for a small pad at the end of our barn that they engineered, and it's perfectly level. So the water just sits there. So now our nutritionist is like, well, have this problem with the equipment driving the feed cows through dirty water, which then can lead to health problems. How do we fix it? We're like, we don't know. They just poured that and it didn't slope into the barn to run through the manure alleys or it didn't slope. They never put a collection in. And so now we're sitting here like, what do

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: we do from here? We're gonna have to

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: try and pump it. But we still face that issue of feed storage and and how do we, you know, get that more modernized because there's a lot of talk everywhere about water quality and efficiencies. Well, the best way to be more efficient in agriculture is to be modern because modern animals are going to make more milk or the same amount of milk with less resources being brought in. Same with crops. When we go away from the inyctosides, you're you're going backwards. We're trying to grow more crops on the same acres so that we can be more efficient because they're not making any more land. But by pushing us the other way, we're gonna have to use more resources. And and the other common misconception you see a lot, and I recall here, we're not organic, we're conventional, is people say, well, we like organic because they, you know, don't use Roundup. I said, they don't. But they can use chemicals that are far more dangerous than Roundup to to to take care of their crops. So it's it's just a lot of you know, and and I think that the best way to help farmers I know you guys, there's there's no money in in the government for extra things. The biggest thing we can do to health farmers is not doing anything at all by by not adding more regulation and restrictions to what we're facing right now would be a major help, especially in a year with with both on prices and other uncertainties. We see equipment costs are through the roof, and that kind of came around during COVID, at least during COVID. Used equipment was also very high, but now used equipment has dropped off, and new equipment is insane. Were looking to update our corn planter. We've been doing no till for fifteen years. We want to upgrade so we can be more precise in our planting. We have a 12 row down to your corn planter to send that newer stuff that work better for us and everything. It's $120,000 When we bought that whole corn planter brand new, was $100,000 All we're changing is the running distance, electronics. So it's just the cost of everything has gone crazy. And the other thing we invested in, Dragline Manurasys. So we've been trying to add on with more varied supply line, but there's no engineers to engineer projects anymore. So we've actually, last fall, finally hired an independent engineer to design the project for us because we've been waiting over a year We just need to get the project done. We're also working on another manure pit for satellite manure storage and that's been just the engineering part of it is taking forever. It's a project that it needs to be engineered, but it could be much simpler. Like, we wait six weeks for an archaeologist to come look for Indian artifacts. The guy walked through a cornfield and looked at the top of the ground. I said, that field has been plowed for hundreds of years. Said, do think you're gonna find anything on top of the ground? I said, why not just come when we when we dig the project? And I had another smart comic film. I said, my family is Abenaki. Said, if we find it in Harifax, it'll belong to us.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: That's that's more federal side than state

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: side. Yes.

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: Yes. But it's it's it's kinda both sides. The problem with, like, Riley touched on with the people that are doing these inspections, they're young people getting into fields. Mhmm. The the pay isn't great, so they're getting their foot in the door. As soon as something else pops up that's private sector or a step up the ladder, they're jumping to the next thing. Because it's rare on inspections to see the same people twice. It's pretty much a year or two, they're gone to the next thing. So I don't know if that's something that could be addressed with, you know, maybe pay these people at the agency a little better so that they want to stick around and then they get that rapport with farmers and you can work with them. I don't know on solutions, but that's definitely a problem.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: We certainly like the suggestion for sure. Thank you very much.

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: Well, name is Lance Wood. I farm in Addison County for my family. I have three brothers and parents, they're involved to a lesser degree than they were, but they still are. First of all, I think it's been since 1996 since the last time I was in the state house. Yeah. So been a while. And I'm really floored by the candor of this group. Just if you're the pro agriculture stance and just the professionalism that you guys seem to project is very impressive. Thank you. I'm not just saying that. I'm just I'm very happy to be here.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: How much money do

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: you want?

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: Well, you and your better job.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: I've heard that.

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: I'd like to say something that is working well, I think. Right? Because I think it's important when you're looking at the whole, you have to identify the parts that are working well and the parts that aren't. Right? So my opinion, my interaction with the farm agronomic practices program, is a kind of pay for, innovate, whatever conservation practices, they're pretty good. There's some things they're trying to incentivize. You do them, you get a little bit of a kickback. It's sort of you're you're sticking your neck out and get a pay a little bit of pay for. It it that's a that's a pretty decent little program. It seems to work well. I don't think anybody in here, though, really wants a a new program or a handout. I don't think that's really what anybody's after, but that part of that program is, I think, valuable. One thing that just I'm sort of an action oriented person. I like actionable things. What can I do today? You guys seem like the same sort of people. Think something that could be done, I believe maybe you would have the jurisdiction to do this. Give you a great example. This fall, we were surprised with the early season snowstorm. Just a little bit, just a little bit of snow. We were in very close communication with Lori Petrios. Yeah. Our custom contract collars. And she said, these are the rules. You know, As long as you're within this rule, guys

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: are good to go before you're gonna

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: order before you're the deadline. So we're doing it. All of a sudden we get a call, Hey, you guys gotta stop. We have to come in and do an inspection, got a complaint, we have to investigate it. While we're doing the things that we told you we're doing, that's fine. So we spent the rest of that night and the rest of the next day till noon, walking on eggshells waiting for the adjudication of our activities. Come to find out it was completely a false

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: claim.

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: I mean, we were spreading minority there, but it was well within the guidelines and they took pictures and proved it. And what struck me is it was all anonymous. And it's nobody had skin in the game on the other side of that. It's like, hey, I think there's a problem with this guy who did it. I don't know. You know? Did they I I wonder if there's a way that that program would not have to be anonymous or or even if it were anonymous. Hey. If you we we come out and we do an inspection and you guys were wrong, you pay for the time.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: You'll get

[Lance Wood (Addison County dairy farmer)]: a fine of some nature. You have to pay for those employees' time or something. That just seems so crazy that I can be over here in the background stirring the pot without any risk of all that. Right. So we that's happened to us a couple times, you know, nothing major, but just just something to think about. Yep. Another thing to think about is, you know, I've often wondered, have you guys ever had a milk inspector come to the barn? Oh, The milk inspectors, they're they're good folks. I don't have really any problems with them. Know, there's always a little milk house floor is rough. Know? That's Oh, yeah. That's my favorite thing. But so I've often wondered why this Agency of Agriculture, the the buildings and grounds inspectors couldn't be more like the milk inspectors. Hey, there's these areas of concern, work on addressing them. There's no threat of fine hanging over your head. You know what I mean? I've often wondered why that couldn't be more like that program. Hey, we all have to understand that, you know, no one wants the flu, and no one one here wants to do the wrong thing. But things We put ourselves at risk every day, right? I we're all I think a prerequisite to being a farmer is you have to have an irrational optimism. Know? I think you have to. I mean, that's a big deal. I agree with that. And I think that we all put ourselves, our neck on the line every day. We know what the weather's gonna do. We understand that. But when something, you know, something happens, it doesn't go right, then all of sudden there's very real consequences that

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: seem

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: unrealistic. Guess that's all I really had. Well, when it was a lot, it was good. Thank you. Great. Thank you very much. Megan

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Rowell. It's my husband, Skyler. We farm in Shelton, Green Mountain Dairy Farm, with my parents, my brother, my uncle Bill.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Bueno Bill. I know that name.

[Megan Rowell (Green Mountain Dairy Farm, Sheldon)]: I don't if I will say that or not. No. Sorry. I'm the aunt, so I really don't have a lot to say. We have, like, thousand cows that we milk, and my biggest worry right now is for the next generation. We have two little girls at home, only one and two years old, but they go to the farm every day. Just climb in the cat pudges with the cats. They'll just sit there while we're working. It's definitely in their blood already, even at such a young age. And so I just worry about the sustainability of us taking over the farm from my parents. And then hopefully, grow up and want a farm one day. And there's not a lot, unless you grow up on a dairy farm, there's not a lot of kids coming into it now. I'm actually trying to start a farm school. The school is a whole another aspect, but it is gonna be farming based just to grow that group, I guess, of farmers. And I just worry how many more I mean, we're losing them every day. Right? We're not growing farms. Mhmm. But I know my childhood on a farm was the greatest. I wouldn't change it for anything. And I just want more kids to experience that. So that's my biggest worry is just the next generation.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: You. Thanks. So I got a question. Unless, do you have more? Give me a sense if you can, the gap between the federal milk price now and what ideally is starting to make a little bit of money. Is it $4? I think it's 16 and change right now, something like that, as of January 26, the hundredweight price. You mean $20.21?

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: So our cost of production is $22 ish. So we're negative $4

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: a 100

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: currently. Okay.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: And there's nothing that the five of us can do about it's a pibble. No. It's a pibble. Certainly can speak with our congressional folks to Peter.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: Is this building? Just drop by the door.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: Yeah. He's here.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Yeah. So he's here today. You talk to Peter Welch. No. It's been a

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: We will talk to Peter Welch as well. Yeah. When you look at the data, and it's

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: just not Vermont, LeBron, descent. You look at Cornell's database, and a lot of these guys see the numbers from from the East Coast to the West Coast. That number is pretty realistic depending on where you're farming. Okay. This is not a Vermont issue. That

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: milk price was when I was in the eighties. So that was the same number.

[Bradley (Franklin County LFO dairy farmer; “Bradley Senior”)]: And we could buy a car for $50,000 or

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: a $150,000. Same sense.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Dollars changes every month, right? The other thing I'll mention, when we get to the floor at 01:00, our chair is going to ask that, I think it's S60, is a bill that we worked on last year here to help people that were going through drought, floods, all the rest of it. I think we started 7,000,000. I went

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: to I think it was 20. Yeah.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Was it Then it went to 7. Then it went to 5. And then by the time it was all done, there was no money in it anymore. It's just a kind of skeleton bill with a lot of good words in it, but not much oomph. So we're gonna ask that we get it back, maybe some other funding, and you're right, this is gonna be a tough year to even ask for an extra nickel. But there's other ways to find money. I'm convinced of that. Maybe the FSA can help make money. And we have Medicaid funds in asking, and so we're going to bring that bill in, as Senator Collamore said. We're going hang it on that wall, and we're going to say, We need some money for someone, So let's see what we can do.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: And, senator, I know you the five of you know this, but the amount of money that the dairy industry brings into the state of Vermont Yeah. We're not feeling that love back.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: Right.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: I say we because I really care about these people and represent them. We are not seeing any of that money back, and we are bringing tourism in. We're finding whether it's some do the four h. Some are having, like, Airbnbs, and people wanna stay on a farm and experience. Like, we are trying to get people in here. We are

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: not seeing any of that

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: like that. Billions of dollars.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Well, is very true and Emma makes a very great point because you go into areas that aren't farming anymore. You go into New Hampshire, go into Northern New Hampshire, and you're driving down the road. You can't see anything, right? You just can't. Everything's all grown up, all grown up, all grown up. In Vermont, every corner is another view of the best that you've ever saw. Whether it's a green field or a standing field of corn or maple trees or grass, everything is because you folks are out there medicaring our landscape. And every picture of a tourist as a cow or a tractor or a silo or a farm or something, that's because of you.

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: We have people stopping by and asking for tours. Which is always like a coin flip. Like, my brother says no.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: I'm not

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: interested in the ride. And it's

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: just like a car full of strangers. The whole time you're giving the tour, you're like, don't take a picture. Don't be don't don't like, I have no idea. Like, the trust factor

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Right.

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: Is not it's like, that's been floated, like, throughout my life or my childhood of, like, how my parents deal with it, there's been some really rough times and better times. And but it's like they were from Texas, and they'd never been on a working farm before, and they were stoked to be there and it was very random, but they looked and they know that the farms are why they're seeing the land that they're seeing. And they just stopped at the nearest one.

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: Alright, I'll go.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: I think your community got a fairly label too with the phosphorus issue that everybody seemed to be blaming farmers for. To me, you were the only ones that were trying to get it better.

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: That's New York.

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: And his return.

[Elaine Bryson (LFO dairy farmer)]: Hi. I'm Elaine Bryson. I have an LFO insurance block. My husband and my brother-in-law are still the owners. Our son is on the farm. He's the next generation, and we want to keep up with more him. And so we also do beef on dairy. We started doing guaiacup processing process. And so we finished our 50 cal rotary fire last a year ago in January. So we also were doing I heard a person at the time got her signed up for the adopt a calf program so schools could use that as a learning tool for classrooms that are still removed from agriculture now. And so, we had a lot of kids farm tours. They wanted to see the calf because they followed it from September through June. So they measured the calf, weighed the calf, they did all these things and that schools could use it as a learning tool. So we got kids, a lot of homeschoolers, and a lot of other local schools in our area, but also that not in Vermont. And so they came, wanted to see the calf, got to see the rotary parlor, got to see where the cows actually got milked. And so they they can see the whole picture of that whole they go to the grocery store. That's where their meat and milk come from. And and so we also have a farm store so people can come buy beef. I also supply some restaurants. So, they got the tour of the farm and they can go over buy some beef and they find it to be just a whole farm experience. They really enjoy that and we got a lot of feedback on social medias as well. And I do have Airbnbs that come people that stay and want to come buy some steaks, stay grill their steaks at their Airbnb in our in our area. So, that's it's kind of it's it kind of gives people that Vermont feel. And we want them to drive up and down 22 A or Route 7 or wherever and see the open fields and see the green and the tourism that's still out there. So we, you know, we wanna stay in business. We want to to keep Vermont green in the way the tourists want to see it.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Mhmm. And

[Elaine Bryson (LFO dairy farmer)]: and that's the county's really you know, it's it's a it's a beautiful valley.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: It's good. Vermont. We're all

[Elaine Bryson (LFO dairy farmer)]: trying to do our best to keep that open. We don't wanna don't want to see houses everywhere. Yep. Unlikely on there. So thank you guys.

[David (Mad River Valley dairy farmer)]: Thank you.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Who's any robotics milkers? Anybody in the room?

[Sen. Steven Heffernan (Clerk, Addison County District)]: No. We had somebody in yesterday and I was quite, you know, I've done automated milkers, but the robot, they have three robotic milkers for 130 a head and the cows just come to get milk when they want. The production went up ten, ten pounds. It's crazy. Wow. Yeah, that's cool.

[Jenny Hall (Franklin; ag science teacher and part-time farmworker; VTDPA communications)]: I feel like there's a certain size that's really gravitated toward it. I have a smaller YouTube channel, but I've interviewed a ton of farms on it, and it's like the certain size, they seem to be shifting over, and it really helps with like the labor costs, the labor shortage, but also an aging farmer that might not have the help.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Fairy help is hard to come by. You don't have housing, And it's on the weekends, so they have

[Stephanie Toth (Bridport dairy farmer)]: a full

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: time job. Right, right, right. So you're all struggling to find help. Yeah.

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: Even then, we have I have a friend that logs, and so when we chop corn, they're not logging that time of year. Offer $30 an hour gumdrop feed truck, and he did he was just sitting at home with kinda

[Sen. Brian Collamore (Member, Rutland District)]: Were you

[Oliver Manning (Swanton area dairy farmer)]: gonna make that kind of money? Yeah. And I was like, guess I'm not impersonation of bloggers. Thought they were in the six months.

[Sen. Russ Ingalls (Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture)]: Anybody else want to have anything to say? Thank you, all. Very much. I wanna all crowd over in this corner, and Emma's gonna take a picture. Because I wanna be wanna be part of that. So, guys, let's go. I'll get over there. Thank you very much. Thank very much. You very much.