Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Will senate please come to order? We'll observe a moment of silence in lieu of a devotional. Thank you. Are there any announcements? Seeing none. We have a house bill for reference. H six eleven introduced by representative Burr Burbachow. Interesting. That's the first time I've said Burbaco. Hopefully, I said it right.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Why is that the wrong way?

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: There we go. Passing the house on 02/10/2026. Listen to the first reading of the bill.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: H six one one, an act relating to miscellaneous provisions affecting the Department of Vermont Health Access.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Now you've heard the first reading of the bill. It's referred to the committee on health and welfare. Orders of the day. We have s two zero eight for third reading. Are there any offered? Are there any amendments to be offered prior to third reading? Listen to the third reading of the bill.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: S two zero eight an act relating to standards for law enforcement identification.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Question is, shall the bill pass? Are you ready for the question? If so, all in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, nay. No. The ayes appear to have it. The ayes do do have it, and you have passed s two zero eight. We now have on the calendar for action s two zero nine introduced on 01/06/2026 was referred to the committee on judiciary, which reports it is considered the bill and recommends that the bill be amended as it appears on page 95 of today's calendar, and that when so amended the bill ought to pass. Listen to the second reading of the bill.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: S two zero nine, an act relating to prohibiting civil arrest in sensitive locations.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: I recognize the senator from Chittenden Central District, senator Vyhovsky, for the report of the committee on judiciary.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, mister president. S two zero nine is built on an existing law that was passed in 2018 that acknowledged that courthouses were a place where people might have to go and where civil arrest without a warrant should be prohibited. We so the language that you will see or the body, the senate will see on page 95 is existing language as it pertains to courthouses. The changes that are there are just changes in numbering order, changes in lettering. Where the changes to existing law began, is on page 96 where we add additional locations that we believe are sensitive locations where people should be able to go without fear that someone with no warrant will swoop in and civilly arrest them. This is not a prohibition on some on on of law enforcement agent who has a warrant arresting someone for violent behavior. It is not even a prohibition on someone who has a signed judicial warrant making a civil arrest. It is a prohibition on warrantless civil arrest. And the locations that we have added to this list are polling places, educational institutions, social service establishments as defined by a pre prior federal guidance, a place of worship, and then the bill goes on to identify oh, and health care facilities.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: That's an

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: important one. And then the bill goes on to define those institutions. What is an educational institution? An educational institution is a place where children and young people go to learn, a daycare, an after school program, a K-twelve school, a university, an educational institution. But what we discovered in doing this bill is we don't actually have a definition of what is a school, And so we worked with multiple legislative council attorneys to to really define what we meant by educational institution. And that is what this, dare I say, simple little bill does. Your committee on judiciary voted five zero zero to support this bill to give people the reasonable expectation that when they're going to places they must go to survive the hospital. And and we've heard testimony in years past in in our senate judiciary committee that people are avoiding cancer treatment because they're afraid of these warrantless civil arrests, that people are keeping their children home from school because they're afraid of these civil arrests and so this is meant to provide a reasonable level of protection against them. In committee we heard from multiple legislative counsel attorneys because of the different aspects of this bill. We heard from Tucker Anderson from legislative counsel, Rick Segal from legislative counsel, and Beth St. James from legislative counsel. We also heard from Jessica Bowman Posen, who's a professor at Columbia Law School, Rory Fisher, the General Counsel for the Department of Corrections. Charlie Glisserman, the Director of Policy with the Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence. Will Lambeth, who's the organizer at Migrant Justice. Jay Nichols, the Senior Executive Director of the Vermont Principals Association, Jordan Souter, a policy advocate with the ACLU of Vermont, Lisa Sparrow, a reverend with Vermont Interfaith Action. We are not in s two zero nine broadly saying that anyone cannot participate in their in their jobs, cannot make arrests. We are saying that there is a narrow list of places that are so sensitive and that are so important for people's lives that they should be able to go there without warrantless arrests occurring. And we know in some places, that certain bills like this have have been moved and upheld, not exactly like this. So could there be a challenge? There may be, but we've worked very closely and very carefully to make this a bill that could uphold that challenge. We're in a point in time where there is so much unknown that the protections that this bill offers helps to narrow the fear and unknown a little bit. And I would ask that the senate support your senate committee on judiciary's work on this bill.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Question is, shall the bill be amended as recommended by the committee on judiciary? Are you ready for the question? Senator from Windsor.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: Thank you. May I inquire of the reporter's bill, please?

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: The reporter is interrogated.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: Thank you. On page 96, under d, you include social services establishment. Mhmm. And I'm just curious. It's not defined. I don't at least my old eyes don't see it.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: It is not defined later in the bill as it is defined right here in Section D that it includes crisis centers, domestic violence shelters, victim service centers, child advocacy centers, supervised visitation centers, family justice centers, facilities that serve disabled persons, homeless shelters, substance use disorder counseling and treatment facilities and establishments distributing food or other essentials of life to people in need. We took this definition almost in its entirety from guidance that had previously been at the federal level for these exact types of arrests. So prior to very recently, there was federal guidance in, letting the Department of Homeland Security and Immigration and Customs Enforcement know that it was not policy to make warrantless arrests in these places, and that is where we borrowed this language from.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: Yeah. Thank you. I I appreciate, because I, it does help differentiate, an office or department that provides social service services from from these other centers and facilities. And it's just a curious, I just would have hoped that social services establishments might have included also the departments and agencies which provide those services to which people go for advice and counsel. But it's a broad inclusion, I agree. And thank you. That's helpful and clarifies a bit for me.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: Okay. We we do just in in case it is helpful for the the senator, we do include some other, you know, health care facilities as determined defined in '18 BSA 9,402. We also include agencies that are regulated by the Child Development Division to make sure that we include child care facilities. I guess I'm not sure what type of social service agencies or divisions you mean, but I'm happy to help answer the question if I can be made to understand better. Thank

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: you. Originally the bill included state buildings, government buildings, and I'm just curious, those are the places where many of our constituents receive a very sensitive advice and counsel from our professionals in the administration who serve people with these social service needs. And I'm just curious that we are not including that very even a very refined state office where those are offered those that exemption for those state offices.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, mister president. Thank you for the clarification. That is very helpful. Yes. The bill, as was introduced, did include state buildings, and state buildings have been enacted as a protection like this in other states and upheld as constitutional. There was some concern on the committee that there are a lot of state buildings. I personally agree that they should be included, but the majority of the committee felt otherwise.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: Thank you. That actually does clarify and, at least why it's not here. And I would yeah. Anyway, thank you.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Are you ready for the question? Senator from Rutland.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: Thank you, mister president. May I interrogate the presenter of the bill?

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Presenter is interrogated.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: So I listened to the list of testifiers. You have anybody come in and testify with federal authority, US attorney or anybody from immigration customs?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: Generally speaking, federal agents will not weigh in on state issues. We certainly have had other instances where there was some overlap, but generally speaking, my experience has been is that the US attorney will not come testify on state matters.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: I would just remind the senators we have had three different senators speak directly to other senators today, and we would present mister president, did the senator take testimony or did the committee take testimony? If we could please try to adhere to the rules.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: Thank you, mister president. I'll take that as a no. Thank you.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Senator from Orange.

[Senator John Benson (Orange)]: Mister President, may I interrogate the presenter?

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: The presenter is interrogated.

[Senator John Benson (Orange)]: I just had a question of clarification, and that is if an individual is in one of the places that are exempt and is actually committing an offense. Are we saying that law enforcement then cannot come and actually take care of the situation?

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: No, we are not saying that.

[Senator John Benson (Orange)]: Okay, I just wanted to be clear.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Yeah.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Are you ready for the question? Senator from Chittenden Central.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, Mr. President. May I interrogate the presenter of The

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: presenter is interrogated.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you. I heard the question from my colleague in Windsor County and I just want to, I want more clarification. Libraries are often pillars in our community. They provide all kinds of services to our constituents, our community members, including physical safety. I'm wondering if there was any talk of including libraries in this bill at any time, Mr. President.

[Senator Tanya Vyhovsky (Chittenden Central)]: Mr. President, there was not any discussion of including libraries. As I said, we worked to to try and balance the potential constitutional challenge and the protection of people in our communities. And I certainly love all all of the public libraries. It was one of my favorite safe places growing up, but that did not come into the conversation on this bill.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, mister president.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Are you ready for the question? Excuse me?

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: I'll I'll withdraw that.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Withdrawing the roll call? Are we now ready for the question? If so, all in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed nay. No. The ayes appear to have it. The ayes do have it, and you have amended the bill as recommended by the committee on judiciary. The question now is, shall the bill be read a third time?

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Roll call.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Roll call has been requested, and when the vote is taken, it shall be by roll. Senator from Chittenden Central.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, mister president. Senators will remember that yesterday I said there would be, two bills coming forward together, two zero eight and two zero nine. When you put them together, they create a much broader protection than either would do separately. So taken together, they prevent arrests with masks everywhere and they prevent this sort of civil arrest around these narrow locations. But when you look at the list, understanding colleagues might differ on what could be added but it is a very substantial list. And I would just add one thing the bill is amending a statute that has been successful in preventing arrests around courthouses people on their way to and from civil proceedings in courthouses. So we have some reason to believe that this will stand up in court and I considered along with two zero eight, some of our best work to date this session. Congratulations to the committee and to, my colleague, the senator from Chittenden Central who introduced the bill. Thank you.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Are you ready for the question? If so the secretary shall call the roll.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Yes. Senator Bennington. Bongartz. Yes. Yes. Senator Brennan. Yes. Senator Brock. Yes. Senator Chittenden.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central) – time-bound override]: Yes. Senator Clarkson. Yes. Senator Caledonia. Yes.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Senator Cumming. Yes. Senator Beulick. Yes. Senator Hardy.

[Senator Ruth Hardy – time-bound override]: Yes. Senator Harrison. Yes. Senator Hashim. Yes.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Senator Heffernan. Yay. Senator Ingle. No. Senator Lyons. Yes. Senator Major. Yes. Senator Matos. Yes. Senator Morley. Senator Norris. Yes. Senator Pershlik. Yes. Senator Plunkett. Yes. Senator Ron Hinsdale.

[Senator Kesha Ram Hinsdale – time-bound override]: Yes.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Senator Bahoski. Yes. Senator Watson. Yes. Senator Weeks. Yes. Senator Westman. Yes.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: The ayes voting 27, the nays voting two, the ayes have it, and you have ordered third reading of s two zero nine. Okay. We're passing over the last two things on the orders of the day. So that completes the orders of the day. Senator from Chittenden Central.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, mister president. Pending announcements, I would move that the senate stand in adjournment until 11:30AM, Friday, 02/13/2026.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Are there any announcements? Senator from Bennington.

[Senator Thomas Chittenden (Chittenden Central)]: Mister president, the senate education committee will meet at 02:15.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Senator from Washington.

[Senator Ann Cummings (Washington) – time-bound override]: Thank you, mister president. Senate finance will meet at 01:30.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Senator from Washington.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Thank you, mister president. Senator appropriations committee has a joint hearing with house appropriations and public hearings for testimony on the f y twenty seven budget at 01:45.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Senator Rutland.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Thank you, mister president. Senate government operations will meet at 01:45.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Senator from Wind Wind Dumb. Windsor Windham sit too close together over there.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: Ready to

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: do this.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Thank you, mister president. Senate institutions will meet at 01:30.

[Lt. Governor David Zuckerman (President of the Senate)]: Are there any further announcements? Seeing none, the senator from Chittenden Central has moved that the senate stand in adjournment until 11:30AM, Friday, 02/13/2026. Are you ready for the question? If so, all in favor, aye. Aye. All opposed, nay. The ayes have it, and we'll stand in adjournment until 11:30AM, Friday, 02/13/2026.