Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Speaker 0]: Will senate please come to order? Take a moment of silence in lieu of a devotional. Thank you. Are there any announcements? Seeing none, I

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: have

[Speaker 0]: a house bill for reference. H five forty five, an act relating to issuance of immunization recommendations introduced by representative Wood and others. Passed the house on 01/23/2026. Listen to the first reading.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: H five forty five, an act relating to issuing immunization recommendations.

[Speaker 0]: Now you've heard the first reading of the bill. It's referred to the committee on health and welfare. Orders of the day. We have up for action s two zero two introduced on 01/06/2026. It was referred to the committee on natural resources and energy, which reports it is considered the bill and recommends that the bill be amended as it appears in today's calendar. And that when so amended the bill ought to pass. Listen to the second reading of the bill.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: S two zero two, an act relating to portable solar energy generation devices.

[Speaker 0]: Recognize the senator from Washington, senator Watson, for the report of the committee on natural resources.

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: Thank you, mister president. I am delighted to be bringing you s two zero two, a bill about portable solar devices. This bill is modeled after Utah's bill that enjoyed bipartisan support, and also this bill had bipartisan support both in co sponsors and in the unanimous vote coming out of committee. So what is a portable solar device? Which by the way is the same thing that you may have read about being called balcony solar or plug in solar. The idea is that it is a solar panel that together with an inverter and a plug so you can just plug the inverter into the wall and the power generated by the solar panel helps to lower your electric consumption from the grid. A typical portable solar array which is between four hundred and twelve hundred watts, the same, if you have one to three, produces roughly, between 515% of the electricity consumed in a typical home. So it's it's, not typically enough power for a normal home to have its meter run backwards because it's producing so much electricity. Some of these devices are self limiting in that they don't send power back to the grid. Others can, and this bill envisions that possibility, that on some occasions, these devices could be sending some very small amount of electricity back to the grid. I realize this may make you wonder about how safe that is, and I promise I will get to that. But before that, talk about safety, let's talk about the current statutory landscape for these devices now. Technically speaking, you could get one of these devices now and connect it to a grid tied building's electrical system. But in order to do that legally, you'd need to get an interconnection agreement and a certificate of public good. And that distribution utility could object and that process also takes time. It's not necessarily a very hard process, but it's more than I think the average person would want to go through on their own. By contrast, these devices have been on the market in Europe for a decade with a very safe track record. You can just go to your local IKEA or hardware store and buy one of these, Simply bring it home and plug it in. And that, of course, is the ideal, though that may not be how it plays out in The United States, but this bill accounts for that. And so I'll explain. One reason it may look different in The United States is because the National Electric Code in The United States is different than in Europe in important ways for how the device interacts with other devices in your house. Now nothing would make my physics teaching heart happier than to explain to you the physics of some of these concerns, but I will spare you that lecture unless of course you ask, in which case I'm happy to tell you. But this leads me to, how this bill deals with safety concerns. First of all, we must consider the safety of our electrical line workers. It is normal and common for these inverters to be able to detect when there's a power outage and be able to shut off power to the grid nearly instantly, thus protecting our line workers. Secondly, I mentioned that Europe's electric code is different than the electric code in The United States. In The United States there's an organization formerly called Underwriters Laboratories, It's usually shortened to UL and now they're officially UL Solutions. You may check out appliances that you have in your house. It's very common that you will see a sticker on the bottom of those devices that says UL Listed. That sticker indicates that that device has been tested by their laboratories and has been deemed safe to use in the electrical grid in The United States. In preparing this floor report, I did actually go and check my toaster And indeed, it had a UL Solutions logo baked into the plastic. So I encourage you to find an appliance in your life and check for the UL sticker or logo. So here's the the key to the safety of these portable solar devices. This bill requires that they are compliant with what's called UL 3,700. UL 3,700 is UL Solutions' standard for performance and labeling of specific plug ins photovoltaic devices. The thing is this document is just out in draft form and not totally finalized. We don't know what will be in it. We don't know which devices will require an electrician to check out the the circuit before they can be plugged in. We do know that it's UL's job to ensure that these devices are safe. Now, they are a private entity and there are other equivalent entities around the country. Some states have their own equivalent, though Vermont does not. So as a device, it doesn't have to be, listed specifically by UL Solutions, but it does need, to meet their standard. As an entity, this was the recommendation that people kept coming back to, the distribution utilities, the Public Service Department, the division of fire safety, and the head of Vermont's electrical licensing board, all or electrician licensing board. They all referenced, UL Solutions. To be fair, the head of, the electrician's licensing board did recommend that we require that these be used with a bidirectional outlet and on a dedicated circuit, but again, that is exactly the kind of thing that would be covered by UL 3,700. And at this point, we don't know which devices will be subject to that requirement, so the committee thought it best to just require compliance with UL 3,700 to cover all of our bases. After all of that explanation, why would anybody want one of these? For starters, this is a way for those who rent or live in a condo association who don't have authority to put solar on their roofs to be able to generate renewable power on their own. There is some upfront cost in purchasing these devices and right now in The United States, the cost of these devices is roughly at the same level as conventional backyard backyard solar array on a per watt basis, but it's anticipated that after enabling legislation, is passed, the price for portable solar should drop. And that's pretty logical because it doesn't require expensive ballasting or pole mounting. There may be an electrician requirement for some devices depending on UL 3,700, but all told, it should still be ultimately cheaper than conventional solar. And then once paid for it, you can start reducing your electric bill. Depending on factors that I mentioned, we heard in testimony that the payback period for one of these devices might be anywhere from four years to twelve years, depending on what's required for the upfront cost. So now on to the bill itself. It starts with a definition of portable solar. I've mentioned already many of the parts of the definition here, but I'll just highlight Part D that it must be connected to a building that's connected to the grid. That is to say, if your building is off the grid, not connected, you can already do this. You don't need S202 to allow you to do this. Part A limits the cumulative amount of generation that's allowable per electric meter at 1,200 watts. That is the equivalent of about three normally sized panels. We wanted to prevent people from going nuts with this and buying so many that they really should be going through the normal interconnection agreement process. None of our witnesses objected to the 1,200 watt upper limit, and this matches Utah's bill. Part B exempts these devices from needing to have to go through Section two forty eight review, which is normal for a system to gain a certificate of public good. And fair enough, these devices may travel with the owner. If a renter moves I imagine they'd want to take their plug in solar device with them. So you could think of these devices as inherently temporary. Part C places some limitations on distribution utilities and this section was largely modeled on Utah's legislation. It's worth mentioning here that as introduced, this bill included a section that would have required the customer to notify the distribution utility that they had one of these devices, including their location, etc. But through testimony, we somewhat surprisingly heard that the distribution utilities don't actually want to know where these things are. One of them said that this is sort of like buying a more efficient refrigerator and they don't want to know about these devices any more than they want to know about your more efficient refrigerator. Part D was a request of the distribution utilities. The intent here is that any excess generation that comes from a portable solar device becomes just free electricity to the distribution utility. So we wanted to be explicit that excess generation will not be compensated by the distribution utility. This also complicates, if they had, this would have complicated the situation for a customer that already had a net metered system because the net metered customer is effectively being compensated for what they're sending back to the grid and and the distribution utility would not have a way to distinguish between, generation that came from their net metered system and what came from the portable solar device, so, if a customer in fact had both. So just to clear up any confusion on that count, customers who already have a net metering system are not permitted to plug in a portable solar device into their home. If they want more solar, they can amend their CPG. And part e, which is about, that these devices must be used in such a way that complies with fire and building safety code is really to say that they can't be used to block an egress, for example. Sections three and four are both relatively minor tweaks to existing law that states that neither municipalities nor homeowners associations can regulate or prohibit renewable energy devices. Section three pertains to municipal bylaws and Section four pertains to homeowners associations. A brief word about the effective date. While the bill goes into effect on July 1, if there are no UL certified devices by that date, then effectively nothing changes. This all hinges on there being clear guidelines certifications from UL. Utah's bill anticipates such guidelines are forthcoming as does our bill. And so finally, we heard from the Division of Fire Safety, the chair of the Electricians Licensing Board, Washington Electric Co op, Vermont Electric Co op, Burlington Electric, Department, Vipse. Oh gosh. What is their acronym?

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: I'm gonna have

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: to think about the acronym. Independent powers. Yes. Vermont. Independent power supply. Independent power supply. Public power supply. Sorry about that. The Department of Public Service, Bright Saver, which is an advocacy organization, V PERG, we heard from students at Middlebury College, and Professor Jenny Carter from Vermont Law School. We did also have some testimony on written form from Jamie Vyhovsky, who is a lobbyist for property and casualty insurance companies about that there's, at this point, no impact on homeowners insurance. We also heard from legislative counsel. And I believe that is it. So as I mentioned, the vote out of committee was a five zero zero, and we asked for the support of the senate. Thank you.

[Speaker 0]: So the question is, shall the bill be amended as recommended by the committee on natural resources and energy? Are you ready for the question? Senator from Rutland.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: Thank you, mister president. May I interrogate the report of the bill?

[Speaker 0]: The reporter is interrogated.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: First, I wanna thank the committee for their work. I intend to report this bill for sure. But you mentioned, I believe, mister president, that the costs involved, I believe you said between four and seven years sort of a payback schedule and that the costs initially were similar to what we would normally see in a solar array kind of thing. Is there an estimate for what a portable solar energy generation thing would would cost?

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: Thank you, mister president. That is a great question. I know we have testimony on that, and I don't have that number off the top of my head. I'd be happy to get that for you for, second third, for third reading.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: Okay. Thank you, Mr. President.

[Speaker 0]: Senator from Addison, senior senator from Addison.

[Senator Ruth Hardy (Addison, Senior Senator)]: Thank you, Mr. President. I just wanna, first of all I have a little bit of information that I remember from our testimony about the senator from Rutland's question if my chair is okay with me filling in the blanks. My recollection is that currently these devices would cost, a thousand dollars or more for the full unit. But as we reduce the regulations and more states offer the ability to purchase these without going through the regulatory process, the expectation is that the price will drop significantly, down to a couple $100 per unit. So they're they're, you know, much more cost effective, after there's more uptake from states changing their laws to reduce the regulation and then the market sort of filling in the gaps once they're more accessible from a regulatory perspective. And that's part of the appeal is that they would be really cheap relatively speaking once they're and that they would be kind of like an appliance like buying a fancy microwave or something like that plugging it in and we got great testimony on this it was it was like one of those like yay we're all agreeing feel good bills and just we heard from young Vermonters who move around a lot who would be interested in these to be able to take them with them when they move to a new apartment places that can't do solar now because they don't have the space for the big units to be able to get them. And it just seems like an easy, inexpensive way to have renewable energy for more people, but also to reduce people's electricity bills too. You know, the the payback for them is so short because they are a a less expensive option than a big, solar unit. So thank you, mister president.

[Speaker 0]: Junior senator from Addison.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: Thank you, mister president.

[Senator Philip Baruth (President Pro Tempore, Chittenden Central)]: May I interrogate the the presenter of

[Speaker 0]: the building? The presenter is interrogated.

[Senator Philip Baruth (President Pro Tempore, Chittenden Central)]: Just two concerns. One is how do we ensure when the renter or the condo owner knows they have a smart meter? And if we have someone that puts in over 1,200 watts because they bought multi panels, is there any recourse for the home renter the landlord excuse me.

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: So if they thank you Mr. President. If the homeowner or renter had more than 1,200 watts let's say then they would not be in compliance with the law and it would be on the homeowner to understand if they have a smart meter or not. No doubt they could just call if they couldn't recognize it on their own home then they could undoubtedly call their distribution utility and and they they would go.

[Senator Philip Baruth (President Pro Tempore, Chittenden Central)]: Thank you Mr. President. I appreciate the answer. It's just a concern. I'm all for the bill. It's just like anything I'm afraid of abuse. You Mr. President.

[Speaker 0]: Are you ready for the question?

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: Roll call.

[Speaker 0]: We're still on the amendment. Would you like to roll call the amendment or would you like to wait for the bill? The question is shall the bill be amended as recommended by the committee on natural resources and energy? Are you ready for the question? If so, all in favor signify by saying Oh, senator Mattos. Sorry. Thank thank you. Really, I looked around twice and you didn't stand up. You would look waited till I looked down. You're looking down right now. Senator from Chittenden North.

[Senator Christopher Mattos (Chittenden North)]: Thank you, mister president. May I interrogate the, presenter of the

[Speaker 0]: The presenter is interrogated.

[Senator Christopher Mattos (Chittenden North)]: Thank you. I heard a lot about, rental units and tenants and landlords. I'm just curious. I think the bill's silent on it, but is there any recourse for a landlord to not allow the use of these devices? I'm thinking you don't have a balcony in an apartment, does the landlord have to let someone put it outside and run a 200 foot cord back to their outlet?

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: So just to clarify, this as we're presenting it here, this does not actually prohibit, landlords from prohibiting them. Okay. That makes sense.

[Senator Christopher Mattos (Chittenden North)]: Okay. No, that's helpful. I was just curious if it had to be allowed or

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: anything. It covers municipalities, zoning bylaws, and homeowners associations.

[Senator Christopher Mattos (Chittenden North)]: Okay. Okay. That's great. Thank you. Yep.

[Speaker 0]: Are you ready for the question? The question is, shall the bill be amended as recommended by the committee on natural resources and energy? All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, nay. The ayes have it. And we have amended the bill as recommended by the committee on natural resources and energy. Now the question shall is, shall the bill be ran a third time?

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: Roll call.

[Speaker 0]: Senator from Windsor has requested that when the vote is taken, it be by roll. Are you ready for the question? The question is oh, read that once. Shall the bill be read a third time? If you're ready for the question, the secretary will call the roll.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Senator

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: Yes.

[John H. Bloomer Jr. (Secretary of the Senate)]: Senator Williams? Yes. Senator Hashim?

[Speaker 0]: Listen to the results of the vote. The ayes voting 29, nays zero. The ayes have it, and you've ordered third reading of s two zero two. That completes the orders of the day. Senator from Chittenden.

[Senator Philip Baruth (President Pro Tempore, Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, mister president. Pending announcements. I would move that the senate stand in adjournment until 1PM, Thursday, 01/29/2026.

[Speaker 0]: Are there any announcements? Seeing senator from Washington.

[Senator Anne Watson (Washington)]: Thank you, mister president. Senate finance will meet at 01:30.

[Speaker 0]: Senator from Washington.

[Senator Philip Baruth (President Pro Tempore, Chittenden Central)]: Thank you, mister president. Senator appropriations will be at 01:30.

[Speaker 0]: Senator from Rutland.

[Senator Brian Collamore (Rutland)]: Thank you, mister president. Senate government operations will meet at 02:00.

[Speaker 0]: I'm trying to get the senator from Windsor a little more exercise getting up and down. Senator from Windsor.

[Senator Alison Clarkson (Windsor)]: He just gave me a gift, which I accept with gratitude. So tonight, have Farmers Night again. We launched really with a great crowd last week, which was terrific, and it was a wonderful concert. Some of you may have heard it was also discussed yesterday on Vermont edition which was terrific the history of it over one hundred years of Vermont Farmers Night. Tonight we have at 07:30 Alison Mann and Collam McCaffrey who are wonderful musicians they blend folk and jazz and they have distinguished them they distinguish themselves with fluid repertoire beautifully blended vocal harmonies and a lovely combination of gravity and humor. I'm looking forward to the humor part. Anyway, hope some of you will attend because it should be wonderful. Thank you.

[Speaker 0]: Are there any further announcements? Seeing none, the senator from Chittenden Central has moved that the senate stand in adjournment until 1PM, Thursday, 01/29/2026. Are you ready for the question? If so, all in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed nay. Ayes have it. And we'll stand in adjournment until 1PM, Thursday, 01/29/2026.