Meetings
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[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: Morning.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: School
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: Boards Association Day at the State House, so I think maybe some of our committee members are talking to them, and we'll be up in a minute. But as is our Friday morning tradition, we're going to do two bill introductions from our wall. And then after the floor, we are going to work on the first time homebuyer tax credit, which is something we've passed a number of times. It's sort of a ongoing issue for
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: the
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: budget conversation. And then after lunch, there's time for people to finish reading their reports. And if we have extra time this morning, we'll have a committee discussion. It's unclear how long the floor is going to take. Feels very early in the session to feel so unclear on how long the floor is going to take, but such is life. So Representative Kheiser, I believe you have a bill for us. Would you like to join us? Sure. Thank you.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: And I'll just remind the committee that last week
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: You, sir, I pronounced your name wrong. I'm so sorry.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Appreciate it.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: I just, I was rhyming it with my own name, and I got all lost in the bowels.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: For that, I consider a compliment.
[Unidentified committee member]: Thank you.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Alrighty. Good morning. I'm Chris Keiser. I am a representative from, Rutland City representing Rutland 7, and I'm here to give testimony on house bill, six forty three. Six forty three oh, wait a minute.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: Okay. You can if you want. He Okay. No. We we do what we do. It's you
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: can keep on going. Thank you
[Unidentified committee member]: for going.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: So h six forty three basically mirrors what is in the governor's budget. And what I'm gonna do is explain the differences between this bill and and the governor's bill in hopes that maybe we it'll enlighten the committee about what the differences are. The differences between And we
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: don't know what's in the governor's bill yet either.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Right. And I I'll give you a hand.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: Cool. Thanks.
[Rep. Matt Walker]: I'll give
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: you a hand. So the differences between, between this bill and the governor's bill is that this bill calls for a six year, graduate recapture of the of the transfer, to the to back to the t fund. The this the governor's bill calls for it to do it over five years. The other thing too is that that this bill, I had it written in November, and the governor's the budget was written in January. So there's a different set of facts, a little bit of nuance there.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: You're, like, ahead of the governor is what you're saying.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: It's only a topic.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: I love that.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: I did this in the summertime. It was odd to give you a little maybe background if it's helpful, but it became obvious to me at the end of the session that we were making poor public policy choices by not using the multiplier from the federal highway funds. So that was the impetus. And then I visited with different constituents, not yourself, and the governor, the speaker of the House, and of course, both chairs. So this is where I got my direction, and this is from whence it comes. So the the the other other thing was that that it is in the governor's budget. The governor's budget shows a $10,000,000 transfer from the education fund to the transportation fund. And in that transfer, we had testimony this week from the, agency of transportation, which showed that they took that $10,000,000 and they realized $63,000,000 worth of construction projects that will be done this year. And these construction projects were in what we call the white book, which is they've already been engineered. They're all in process. There's nothing fancy about that. So we know that this concept works. It's going to have its multiplier is going to have that effect. The nice thing about this particular one, and it was the AOT that made these decisions, we're gonna have town bridges, seven town bridges done. We will they'll have seven jobs on town bridges. There'll be four portions of the interstate that will be paved out of that. There'll be five jobs in town paving, and then there'll be some tree cutting on the interstate. So we know that it works. So the other thing about the governor's budget, that it keeps the same concepts, but by because it's in the budget, it it has a structure for execution. So, frankly, I think it's probably a better way to go than the bill that I have in front of you. Now we all understand that really the discussion here probably is about property tax. Property tax is $1.56, one seventy. And so after talking with an email exchange Excuse me.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: Can you say that sentence again?
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Yes.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: So the property tax is?
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Currently, the property tax is $1.56 for homestead, and 170 for non homestead per 100. Okay. So that's the basis. And by the way, we have to be very careful with this, because it's like linear calculus. Every point in time produces a different number. So I just warned the committee, that's what I found out when I was talking with Julia Richter, our CFO, about trying to understand what I was doing. That was explained to me. Now, it's a question of degree. So we're not going to see a large degree change. It's just whatever all the because there's so many inputs into the education fund that you change one, something else changed. And because of actual revenue versus projections, you're going to get different numbers. But it's still in the ballpark, and that's what the current rate is set at. So after talking with Julia through email with Julia Rexherr, what I found was that JFO assumes the $50,000,000 transfer would increase the property tax 3%. Those numbers that I just gave you would improve them, increase them 3%. Now in the governor's budget, what it calls for is a ten is a five year phase in or a or a 20% per year. That would equate to a point 6% increase in the property tax rate, all all things being equal. 12? Yep. Okay. Pardon me. I'm sorry. I just you look you look confused. Anyway
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: I'm doing math in my head, and then math always happens in that corner for some Gotcha.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Got okay. I'm trying to be clear. So the point is that that given the fact that that would have an annual effect of a a point 6% on the property tax, what that is based on on the current rate of one fifty six and one seventy is a a little bit more than a penny, a little less than a penny. So what I'm gonna tell you is we just want pennies for That's all you want.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: So well done.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Pennies for roads. That's all I need.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: Can we have T shirts made?
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: When we get there. Okay.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: We have to pass it
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: first. So thank you for your time, and that concludes my comments. Questions
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: from the committee?
[Unidentified committee member]: Any for votes? Governor Douglas was very good. I didn't always agree with him, but he was very good at catching little phrases, you know, clean and clear, you know, this kind of
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: stuff like that. Well, we're we're hoping that based on facts.
[Unidentified committee member]: Well, that would be very helpful, sir. Thank you very I
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: very much appreciate the problem with the transportation fund and that we are leaving federal money on the table. And I very much want us to do something about it. I struggle that sort of the greatest crisis that we've all been managing and talking about in sort of every corner is our property taxes right now, and the idea that folks are coming forward with proposals to, frankly, increase the property tax, no matter how small. But right now, every penny feels like it really matters. And so Other revenue needs to be Whether if the money is moved, other revenue needs to be found. And you are the first person to come to this room to discuss this this year. I know you will not be the last, so I'm sorry. But it would be lovely if these proposals would include whatever the revenue would be used to replace that or whatever the cut would be or whatever it is. But right now, at the proposal as it is, just raises the questions.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: You really don't have enough facts. And in fact, you'll need to do, believe, in my opinion, is to look at the governor's budget because there are so many comings and goings, and that's why I made the reference to linear calculus.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: But
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: anyway, that's the The other point I think we should make, and to your point, Chair, is that there are a lot of different proposals. There's one in the Senate that wants to freeze property taxes. And so you're gonna see a lot of stuff come through here. But I thought it would be important to get a sense of what the magnitude of what we're talking about for the transportation. And so that's where I've come up with pennies for roads. Thank
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: you. Anyone else?
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Thank you very much for your time.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: Thank you. Representative Walker, you are here not to talk about roads, which is fun.
[Rep. Matt Walker]: And I may really not Good morning, Matt Walker. Good morning. Representative Swanson.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: I'm sorry, I was running around. I don't even know if I responded to your text. We were running late, so I'm sorry if I added stress to your morning.
[Rep. Matt Walker]: No, it's not at all. I'm sorry if I take up time with your committee with all the other things you got going on.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: That's great.
[Rep. Matt Walker]: Like, pennies for roads, which I have plenty of comments on, but that's not what I'm here for. And I'm not the reason h four eighty seven, was put in by representative Oliver and myself is that the town of Swan and the village of Swan are looking to put in local options tax. When this was first put in last year, there was a real issue or misunderstandings perhaps about whether or not the village and the town could share the revenue but only have it as one collection. And my understanding is now if they make an intergovernmental relationship between the village and town about how to split it and that the way that the tax department will collect it, that it can likely be held with all the work that you handled with all the work that you did the previous biennium. So I put the bill in at the request of the town and the village at the beginning of last year, and I'm not a 100% of how the machinations will work to make that work. But my understanding is your committee did a lot of work on this before and that they may be able to settle it. It is going likely or is going to go on to the ballot in Swanton Village and town in March, and they haven't concluded an intergovernmental agreement. But all of that is developed and being worked on as we go. But you would know better than I, and I'm still getting a couple of answers on it. I appreciate all the work the committee has done, but I believe, unlike when I put the bill in, that it does it is possible to do this.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: If it turns out that it's not possible, we'll check-in with the tax department too. We have a miscellaneous tax bill, and we can make sure that the situation gets fixed for your community.
[Rep. Matt Walker]: The idea is that the one line on the local option tax reporting, and then when money does come in, that it would then be split by an agreement that they hammer out that is based on the sort of the appraised value of each, and the village would get some and the town would get other. If that does not exist and we can't make that happen, I would ask the committee to do that is what the purpose of my bill is.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: If you just let us know before crossover.
[Rep. Matt Walker]: Excellent. That's what I the point of that bill is. I appreciate the chance to just highlight it. Yeah. Gotcha. Some other option other than property taxes for towns to raise revenue.
[Rep. Charles Kimbell (Ranking Member)]: Hi, Matt. Thanks for bringing it up. So I'm from Woodstock. We have a local options tax and also a similar town village structure, where the town does not have a charter, but the village does. And so the town passed a 1% local options tax, but it doesn't have a guaranteed share with the village. So that's what you're trying to see is the village wants to have a a way to be guaranteed that it gets a share of the town's tax. Is that what you're talking about?
[Rep. Matt Walker]: I believe that's what I would describe. The town and the village are trying to work together to collect 1% from everything that happens in both and then share it, proportionally. And I'm the purpose of the bill is to make sure if it does not allow it, to make sure that it allowed that they can do such a thing.
[Rep. Charles Kimbell (Ranking Member)]: Can they just merge the two?
[Unidentified committee member]: Oh, wow. I
[Rep. Matt Walker]: gotta go. That is not a subject that
[Unidentified committee member]: I would be involved in in my community if I wanted to be voted back Thank you for
[Rep. Charles Kimbell (Ranking Member)]: Should we
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: tell the people of Woodstock that you're advocating for murder?
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Yes. Okay.
[Rep. Charles Kimbell (Ranking Member)]: They already know.
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: I'm neutral
[Rep. Matt Walker]: on that opinion, on that situation. I think that both areas are well run, and they should decide together eventually what they wanna do. Fair
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: enough. Yeah. I I feel like I saw a hand over here, but it went away. Is that okay. Great. Thank you.
[Rep. Matt Walker]: Thank you very much. I appreciate the understanding of the miscellaneous tax bill as well if we need something. So I really appreciate that very much.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Thank you
[Rep. Matt Walker]: for your time this morning.
[Rep. Chris Keiser]: Thank you.
[Unidentified committee member]: Let
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: us find our way to the floor. Like I said, back here after the floor. First time homebuyer. It's possible we're gonna meet at 01:00 today. And we will know more when we get back here after the floor. And if folks would like an email before then, if it's found out that helpful? Yeah. Okay, great. Okay. It would be the we had to reschedule Adam Gresham. And we wanna get him
[Rep. Matt Walker]: in
[Emilie Kornheiser (Chair)]: this week.