Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: And we are. We're live back on Wednesday afternoon, 02/11/2026, in house transportation. And a big part of our agenda this week, since you both can all everybody can hear it in the background, is that my understanding I've only been in this position for my second year. I understand that at some point, maybe pre COVID, maybe previous years, there used to be a regional planning commission kind of day at the State House. And there was a lot of interaction with regional planning commissions and multiple committees. But there's, of course, hasn't been any of those days in a while. And I have attended a number of TAC meetings at my regional planning commission. But we haven't had any representation of anybody there in this committee. And we have also been looking at the amount of things that, I'm sure you're aware, the budget constraints of the transportation fund and flat funding and increased costs. We heard testimony pretty clearly from the agency that adding projects from the TAC and from the Nobody wants to repeat that acronym, the BEC? Yes, yeah. Some people know it very well. It's almost, at this point, they're afraid to ask for any more because they can't promise when they were gonna get done. We wanna hear from all of the different regions of the state what's out there, what people's priorities are, what they wish that we were doing, what is working, and concerns, etcetera. So we're looking for feedback from an area that we haven't heard from previously in the committee. So that's my introduction piece. And we appreciate you coming to join us today. And we're interested in any direction you want to take us and bring it all back to transportation. It doesn't have to all be transportation, but we'll go from there. We appreciate it. Welcome in and introduce yourself and take it away.

[Christian Meyer]: Christian Meyer, executive director of Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission. We're located on Main Street above the old Walgreens. Our our region is comprises Washington County plus three county three municipalities in Orange County, Orange, Washington, and Williamstown. I think if you talk about transportation and what priorities are in our municipalities right now, Like much of the state, most of our towns are managing a network of gravel roads. And flooding and storms and erosion are really big surprises from one year to the next that municipalities are being asked to plan for. And it is consistently the concern we hear back. They've reached out a number of times. Everyone wants to know when the dump trucks full of money are coming to their town. We said we'd keep an eye out for them, but realistically, they're not coming. So, working with our municipalities as they think about their highway networks, town highway network, and how they manage it, and to what level they're able to afford to continue managing it. Don't wanna throw any numbers out, but coming out of the 2023 flooding, most of the damages in our municipalities were highway expenses. Obviously, Mount Billiard had a lot of inundation. 2024 Plainfield, Berry were all hit very heavily in the residential and established areas of development. But if you look at municipalities like Middlesex down the road, it was $2,000,000 in road damage, which is about four times their annual budget. So they're asking how do we deal with that to keep going with Middlesex in a sense. But we have a couple tools in our our belt to help them. The high bridging culvert inventories we conduct throughout the region are key. Helping talent to understand what they have in their road and understand their assets is a critical first step towards capital planning. We are in fairly good shape in Central Vermont. I think we were on a cycle where no inventory is older than six years old after the summer, least. Think we've ever lasted an update. Not familiar with these inventories. We go out in the field. We have interns every summer who catalog every culvert in the municipality, the diameter, the length, the state of it. Is it 50% full of sediment or is it wide open? Is it rusting out? Need Does to be considered for replacement? And then with the municipality of Middlesex, we work with them to help address their concerns and identified funding that would help them take the next step to take that inventory and then look at their desktop modeling of all their culverts to identify which ones really work should be prioritized for upsizing, which ones are gonna be the chronic washouts going forward. So that's what we're calling our enhanced bridging culvert or erosion inventory, something like that. And that project's underway. It hasn't completed, and we're excited to see where that ends up.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Sure, just a couple of questions. In other states, beach ball, flank insurance are county wide, but here in Vermont, it's been sort of broken up, mostly county, but you said you brought in some other municipalities outside of Washington County.

[Christian Meyer]: I can't speak for that. Luckily, there's some in the room with greater institutional knowledge than myself. We were laughing last night at our board meeting. I've been with CVRPC since 2021, and I'm officially the most senior staff. So locally, we've been we we have a good team. Most of us kinda came on 2021, 2022 before the for the floods. But I certainly can't speak to 1919 1968.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: States. It's are other states that do that too and and how funding does that impact funding that?

[Christian Meyer]: I can speak a little to that. Before moving back to Vermont, I broke down the road, before moving back, I was working in a regional planning, our council of governments in Connecticut. We were two counties and we also shared four municipalities that were in two MPOs.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: So

[Christian Meyer]: there's lots of ways to cut up the pie for sure.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: And my next question, we're doing this inventory. Is it fair to say you identified culverts that are in need, that pretty much the only avenue other than raising property taxes in the town to pay for it, town able to squirrel away some capital funds to pay for it. Is the municipal grant program from the state?

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: For a capital improvement like that?

[Christian Meyer]: No, I don't believe they would use the municipal planning program. We are using don't

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Planning municipal structures and grant Yeah. From V trains.

[Christian Meyer]: I'm less familiar with how

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Okay.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Yeah. But

[Christian Meyer]: as you all are aware, your municipalities are budgeting for a certain number of culvert replacements on a given year. We can help using working with the road commissioners and road supervisors, we can really help them say, all right, need, you had 24 inches culverts that you're replacing, you probably want to replace those with 36 inches, etcetera. So as they're doing that regular capital planning, making sure they're rightsizing the infrastructure that goes

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: in. Okay. So yep. Do you think that these municipalities are catching up and or are they falling behind as far as maintaining and upsizing over structures like that?

[Christian Meyer]: I don't wanna give a a short answer to that because coming out of the 2023, 2024 flooding, we replaced a lot of culverts.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. And it's sort of this the states that our structures, our bridges are in pretty good shape because we replaced so many damage.

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah, I would say that's the second big concern of municipalities though. Are there bridges on municipal roads, especially their shorts, less than 20 feet for which they're not eligible for those federal funding sources. In the example of Plainfield, they lost Brook Road, which had five or six bridges along it. At least three, if not four of those bridges are still not reopened. So we've been working closely with the municipality, helping them do the capital planning and make those hard decisions, how they're going to address those bridges. Are they gonna do it now? Are they gonna wait? What's the process for getting there? Because even the 10% match on that number of bridges, you know, bridges $2,000,000 probably. So they don't have 200,000 In one year's budget, much less the budget for aid. And that's assuming FEMA. That's assuming That's, yeah.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: And then we need to have the network.

[Christian Meyer]: But it's FHWA, but yeah, in this particular road, because it's on federal aid network. So that's a big concern. The other benefit of these bridge and culvert inventories is post flood. When FEMA comes in and asks, well, what are we replacing? Well, guess what? You can download that database tomorrow and have a clear spreadsheet. All right. We replaced this bridge. We know what it was in there before. It's a 53 foot long, 16 inches corrugated metal culvert. So it's just it also helps with those reimbursement processes as well. So it's it's a piece we've managed to get all our accounts. Not all our towns participated in it and and and wanted the inventories. In the last five years, we've managed to expand that to include every municipality. So

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Did you mention how many towns and municipalities in your 23. Sorry.

[Christian Meyer]: I did. Yeah.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Can you relate to other regional planning commissions whether they're up to date on these inventories?

[Christian Meyer]: I would have to look at the website. It is it is available, I believe, through the Baptist site. I think that's that's reported there. I think I know I was previously a transportation planner. I know everyone's out there doing it. I don't know where everyone else is in the process.

[Kyle Brenner]: Represent what?

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Thank you. I have a couple of questions. So first of all, how do you interact with the Matador Valley Planning District? Are they a subset of you guys? Do you work with Josh? Does he do that work for those three towns and you could do the rest?

[Christian Meyer]: Well, can speak to that. I'm ex officio board member on Mad River Valley Planning District. We have a very good relationship with Josh. We helped create the Mad River Planning District back in 1982 or '83 with their very clear mission of that local planning to address the impact of the ski resorts in the valley. And I think that mission for them in a sense hasn't changed, but the role of the ski resorts has, right? Where before it felt like they needed to be the gatekeeper to hold, to make sure the resorts were playing by the rules. Now it's the resorts really need them as a partner for addressing housing across the community. So there's affordability for their staff as they recruit. In that sense, they still focus very closely on those municipal needs as they relate to that recreation economy, I think I'd expand it. So our role in transportation, they'll call us up if they have a question and say, Hey, could you do this? They almost act as an extension of the municipal base rather than acting as a subregion. Trying to think of other examples. We do coordinate our work plans as best we can because So we don't want to repeat the

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: are you conducting bridge and full harvest estimates in that area now? And so I think I heard you say that the inventory is all up to date within the last six years.

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah, think the valley is definitely up

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: to date. So what about the Meadow Road Bridge? Well,

[Christian Meyer]: we have the distinction, honor, of having really been there on the ground when that that the realization came to be that that bridge was Failing. Failing. Two planners were out there doing a tour with FEMA and happened to be parked right next to the bridge when a dump truck rolled across it. So watching this thing happen down. Immediately came back to the office and we're making calls on behalf of the municipality to be trans to get those next conversations happening, get an engineer out to look at it, do an emergency inspection. That's I think a very typical role we'll play with our municipalities. They have an acute problem, we can help be their navigator through the state system.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And so just using that as a case study. So that inspection happened. I think then it was decided, decrease the weight limit on the bridge. I think it may be now only school buses can go over it in terms of Yeah. And is there a plan for replacing it? And are you working with Malibu Valley Planning District on that? Or is that on the B TRANS list?

[Christian Meyer]: I don't know where that is exactly right now. Could get you that answer. I can talk to my transportation planners who are working more closely with the municipality. The short answer is once the gears get turning, it is a municipal asset, a municipal bridge that I don't know what role that River Valley Planning District has in that, but it is a municipal issue. So I know VTrans in their capacity would be working with the municipality, and we're kind of a bystander at that point.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Okay. And in terms of figuring out funding for big projects like that for municipalities as a regional planning district? Are you connecting them with opportunities to What are some of those sources that you are able to turn to?

[Christian Meyer]: For a bridge like that, B TRANS is going to be your best option. Looking at some other examples, there are programs like USDOT Protec program, which can help address. It depends, it's I think there's an economic element to it, but you can Sorry, I'm getting my programs mixed up. So I'm probably crossing here. Absolutely, we're aware of the federal programs. We can help steer a municipality toward Usually, it's a VTrans rep who's running the program locally to have that next conversation. And if it turns out to be a good fit, we will often play a critical role in writing that application for funding. If it's a discretionary program, like say a build grant or I think Pro Tech got canceled, but maybe it's back on the books again. Yeah, the federal programs all changed a bunch last summer.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: I'm trying to get a good sense of your purview. It sounds like you've got interns going out and assessing culverts, and are they also making sure they're working properly?

[Christian Meyer]: We have several criteria we assess the culverts by, percent blockage, that kind of thing. So there's no hydraulic testing or anything like that.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Right, just kind of looking at it and seeing if this stuff's stuck in

[Christian Meyer]: Can you see punctures, rust holes in the facility? Is it even still there? Many of these assets are in the books, but have either been plowed over and are no longer used, or

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And so are you then sharing that information with municipalities? And is it their responsibility to go take a look at these three culverts that stuck and not working and clean them out appropriately?

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah, it depends. All municipalities have different levels of capacity internally, but we can sit down and try to explain the data, highlight those areas where they rightfully will want to spend additional time and consideration on. Or they might say, Now we got it from here, thanks. I appreciate the data. Or they may say, Can you do the next step as we are with Middlesex and trying to do some sort of prioritization and ranking of those assets?

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: I have two more questions, which I'm happy to hold or keep going. On a roll, but we'll The Mad River Valley or Route 100 Transportation Corridor Project, which is this idea to connect, to have a continuous bike and ped path from Warren all the way to Middlesex. Have you all been involved in those conversations with Misha Buckjian at the Mad River Path and Josh, who has been in some of those conversations? So

[Christian Meyer]: we were the fiscal agent for that routing study, what it

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: The scoping study?

[Christian Meyer]: The scoping study, I guess. The quarter study, they called it. They had to make a new name

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: for it, because

[Christian Meyer]: it was a bit of a different beast. But it's essentially a routing study, a proposed line within the right of way where they thought they could bring the project forward. More recently, they were pursuing additional funding. Our board of commissioners reviewed the project for a letter of compatibility with our regional planning goals. So we're continuing to coordinate as that project advances.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: I that I know they were looking for grants from AOT. Don't know if there were others outside of there that you can And again, do you have sources for suggesting other places to look for funding for those types of projects?

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah. That project's more somewhat limited because it's a recreational asset and active transportation community asset.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: So this could be a commuting asset. Exactly.

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah. By commuting, certainly along the valley, it's actually fairly flat. You do you're gonna you're gonna

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: For the valley?

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah. You're in a river valley.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: So it's not As long as you're

[Christian Meyer]: not going up the valley walls. But there's the bike There are essentially two cutoffs from the federal surface transportation block grant program. One VTrans manages as the bike and ped program, one half VTrans manages as the transportation alternative set aside program. So yes, we have helped them write applications where necessary.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: But ultimately, they're all coming back to VTrans.

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah, VTrans is the federal pass through. The application goes there. Mean, they can go to US DOT Direct to get something like a PROTECT grant.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And then this is fairly unrelated to my last question. So are you with road foreman, highway Not highway, but the local road crews in terms of how they are using salt, for example. We've had some conversations about, AOT has a program, which they are feeling pretty good about in terms of using less salt. And I question really down at the local level, are Are our road crews well informed about some of the cutting edge ways to apply salt on the road, particularly when you're in a watershed?

[Christian Meyer]: So we do post somewhere between quarterly and twice a year. Let's see, they're called the road supervisors or road foreman's meetings. And we generally will have an area of conversation or discussion like road erosion inventories, or some of the programs that are available to them. I'm unaware if we've had a recent one that really focused it on salt application.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And just to follow-up on that, there is a group in the Adirondacks, the Lake George Association, which works to protect the water quality of that lake, which is considered to be one of the cleanest in the world. And that organization hosts a SALT Summit every fall. And they've had some incredible results from that summit, and they bring together the plow drivers, the road foreman, the private contractors who are doing management of parking lots and so forth. And they brought them all together and really educated that group. And they've seen significant reductions in salt use and the cost of salt. So it's something I continue to bring up because I think there's something to learn from that group.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Yeah, think there's

[Christian Meyer]: opportunities for salt, but gravel as well, because that runs off and ends up ultimately in our rivers. Thank you. Representative Pouech.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Yeah, thanks for helping inform us. When you do the inventory, culvert, do you also provide the hydrologic, you know, this culvert's, I don't know, two feet. It it really should be three feet based on the latest science or methods of sizing.

[Christian Meyer]: We do not. Not as part of that base inventory.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Is there an indication at all that so you provide, you know, if it's partially blocked, know, condition, and here is the size because they may not even really have But do you provide anything at all that says, and it's probably undersized?

[Christian Meyer]: No. Not as part of that base fund. Again, this project we're undergoing in Middlesex, which is being funded with municipal planning grant funds, takes that next step. We do do some table top modeling. And I think the software can assess the need or the capacity up to 36 inches culverts. It's not for everything, but it can look at most. You're looking at 85% of them at that.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: I think our town in Hinesburg had

[Christian Meyer]: Has done that too?

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Yeah. They had the inventory, and then I think they've had some sizing. And I'd like to point out, they identified culverts that were undersized that they applied for grants for three years and a row from the state, never got them because they had previously gotten a grant for other things. And of course, Phil is qualified for it. And the big storm we had in high school. Are you involved at all in the VTrans awarding structures, patch grants when they were to municipalities? Are you is any of the planning organizations involved in the evaluation and awarding of those? Do you know?

[Christian Meyer]: Like, this one really need this one is more critical than this one, let's say. Under the project prioritization process, EPS v two, There are the engineering inputs, and then there is the planning inputs, some of which VTrans fills in themselves, others are filled in by the regional planning commissions through their tax. So when that program is running, when we're building, expanding our portfolio of needs, yes, we are involved in that prioritization process.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Representative Burke?

[Mollie S. Burke (Member)]: Yeah, I just wanted to ask you about this. I heard from my Chris Keyser, who's a local regional planner, about current team of guidance that are asking for a lot of personal information about board members, regional planning commissioners, and said, you know, that that's be considered invading the privacy. They don't have no no real role in doing the actual work and certainly acceptable for staff. But anyway, just wondered if you're

[Christian Meyer]: I'm aware of this and it's all tied to that emergency planning. Emergency management block. Exactly. So, we're waiting to sleep.

[Mollie S. Burke (Member)]: Yeah. And he wasn't sure if it was part of this Location lawsuit. Yeah,

[Christian Meyer]: Chris is always a great resource. Do I have anything more to add?

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Christian, in the last two or three minutes here, what would you want state, I guess, at least as far as the budget and policy of the agency, or what you'd like us to know or what you'd like to ask from us, but also what might be the major projects in your area that you'd want us to be aware of? And anything that you we should hear from you or you need from us that would make your life better here in Washington County and three orange

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah. In the Central Vermont planning area. You know, I don't think we have one single ask. I think there's a lot of need, obviously. We've talked about bridges. The other area we always hear about is active transportation investments. So, a sidewalks, you know, really basic stuff. Like much of Vermont, our villages are bisected by state routes. We regularly hear, how do we control speeds on these roads? How do we make these places people want to live and develop and put their housing in denser clusters that we are proposing under most of our planning work. Transportation is a land use issue, ultimately. I don't think there's any key areas where we're really trying to We're not getting the support of cooperation we need out of Atrans, at least in Central Vermont. One example is it's been slow, but we've managed to stand up a demonstration project program. Demonstration projects are you go in with movable bollards, you put them up for two months, you measure the traffic speed before the volumes, etcetera. You measure them after you do some surveys. Now a town has some real concrete information about what adding a sidewalk will really do for their community before they make the investments. And it's been really hard to get a set of design guidelines that work with the B TRANS design guidelines. Can they be movable ball or do they have to be fixed bulbs? What kind of paint could be used? Etcetera, etcetera. So it's a challenge, but they to the table open minded and we're moving forward. It just takes work.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Last piece. Thank you very much for coming in. Appreciate that. Now you guess you know who we are and we know a little bit about who you are. Yeah. And as an interaction, there'll

[Christian Meyer]: be more. Any issues? I had two questions. I only wrote down the salt application line. Someone else asked a question. I was gonna get I promise to get back to the home. It may come to you. I'll see it on YouTube later. There we go.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: You did answer the question, what from the state transportation, what would you like to see increased, I guess? And you told us that.

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah, I mean, we have our needs. Yes.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Okay.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Bridges and I think the bike path.

[Christian Meyer]: Yeah, those are key covenant requests that we receive at the regional level. Great. Thank you all so much

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: for Very your good.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Trying to get some feedback from an area that we don't always hear from. Welcome to committee.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Thank you. We have a brief ten minute overview

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: of what

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: you're working on in our region, if that works for you.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: It does. We've had a couple of different approaches from that, and we've also had a presentation earlier from Addison County. So we want you to present away and let us know what you want us to know about you.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: So thanks for having us. I'm Kathryn Demetriuk. I'm Executive Director of Northwest Regional Planning Commission.

[Kyle Brenner]: I'm Kyle Brenner. I'm the Transportation Planner at Northwest Regional Planning.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And we really appreciate the opportunity to be here today. Before we launch in, just wanna thank you for your attention last year to the issues of municipal payback and the municipal grants program, and just asking the agency to take a relook at that. We really appreciated that responsiveness.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: I'm not sure that's been solved yet.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: No, but you made the question be asked, and that was a huge step in the right direction. So just a little bit about the Northwest Region. Our transportation system, our roadways are the main part of our transportation system. The overwhelming majority of our road miles, like most regions of the state, are local roads. So over half of our local roads are class three town highways. And the remaining portions of town highways are class two and class And we only have a very small sliver of class one town highways. It's just 12 miles. So it's a very small amount of our regional road network. So as you can see, when we talk about the work that we do, it's gonna skew more toward local assistance, because that is where the majority of the issues arise in our region and making sure we provide that local assistance in coordination and cooperation with VCHANZ.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: So what comprises

[Christian Meyer]: the Northwest Region?

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Franklin and Grand, not just Franklin, but Franklin and Grand Isle Counties included in our region. We actually follow county boundaries. Okay. Exactly. So we may be the if. Well, we're not totally unique, but we are not. We are in New York. Okay. Thank

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: you. Was

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: this shared with us? It's not on our website.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: It's not yet, but I will, yeah, I'll email them. Simon's in trouble with the PDF until right before now, So one of the things we do at NRPC and also all of the regional planning commissions is we really, in the absence of county government, regional planning commissions serve in that function as much as we can to assist our municipalities in the state. And especially in the era of diminishing resources, the interdisciplinary approach that we take to transportation is beneficial for the state as a whole, because whenever we can, we leverage funding sources in other areas of our work to help build and support the transportation methods that make our communities successful. Overall, in our transportation planning program, every single one of our towns receive some form of assistance in some of the examples that we'll talk about in the next few slides. But we're all doing it towards the goal of having successful communities, successful community development, successful economic development, enabling people to get to work, to get to health care, and really have successful lives. A lot of the work that we are doing in transportation actually supports economic development. The particular area we're going to highlight is the work that we do on rail tracks. Franklin and Grand Nouw Counties, we have two really big ones that actually intersect. The Mississippi Valley Rail Trail is 26 miles, the 90 mile Lemoyo Valley Rail Trail travels through our region. They intersect in Sheldon, Sheldon Junction actually, because it was an old railroad junction. So it makes sense. And the work that we've done is longstanding. We supported the Mississippi Valley Rail Trail for decades prior to anybody at the state paying attention to rail trips. And a lot of the work that we've built is foundational in helping to serve as examples for what's happening in the Moyne Valley. And Miles can talk about some of those details.

[Kyle Brenner]: So we vote a wonderfully dedicated staff member, Amy Adams, who is very passionate about the rail trail. She was very passionate about MVRT, and that is growing to LVRT. She's really fostered some of the work that's been done at NRPC over the years. This year, there's a really big focus on the Trail Friendly Business Program. And I just brought a couple of little things. But from the economic development perspective, trail friendly businesses get a decal that they can place in their windows. On a further slide, there's a brochure that's being recreated that was made years ago for this is what the new one will look like. For my Sisway Valley Rail Trail, it's being expanded to the Lemoy Valley Rail Trail, trail friendly business program, but really getting the opportunity for folks that are using the trail into some of those local businesses for something as simple as a restroom but as needed as a meal. We have some applications this year for some Airbnbs and some lodging to be included in this as well. So it's a real gem. Some of the other work that we've done is we work really closely with the Rail Trail Council. In our region, we've combined them. So the Lemoyal Valley and Mississues Valley councils are one. Who hear a lot about what's happening on the trails. They are currently reviewing the new wayfinding signage package that's being put together, a management plan for how the council works with VTrans and regional planning to make sure that the trail stays successful.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: It has to do a lot of green

[Kyle Brenner]: up on the trail, which is really nice. You see these dedicated folks year after year out there with their own vehicles to point the trails out.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And this is a great example of how we leverage other funding sources, because this work that was done on the Nassisco Valley Rail Trail that's now serving as an example for the Memorial Valley was funded through a boat ramp that we applied for at the Regional Planning Commission. We provided the match. And so we really leveraged other funding sources to help support what is part of the transportation system. So we also do transportation work that supports Vermont's clean water bowls. We talked a lot about one of those tools a little bit earlier with the road erosion inventories and with the culvert inventories. And I'm going let Kyle talk a little bit more about our work there.

[Kyle Brenner]: Sure. This past year, we contracted with several municipalities, completed four road erosion inventories, Beaumont, Swanton Village, Sheldon, and Fairfield. We have some interns that come out and spend hot, dusty days outside, really taking note of what that erosion looks like on the side of these roads. And they are roads or segments that are connected hydrologically to waterways of the state. We also, just as a tie back to the rail trail, we were contracted last year with AOT to do culvert inventories on our portion of the Loyal Valley Rail Trail, which was particularly interesting because our interns got to crawl around and look at culverts that were built pre railroad that still exist and have basically been untouched and are in perfect working condition because that just goes to show that investment made a difference at that time. So these are at least the Road Erosion Inventory are made possible through better roads category grants that are state funded, that every year there's an amount of money that's available for municipalities and those funding avenues. It's really important to get that work done. Challengers are not required to ask us to help, but it gives them those extra bodies to help with some of those tasks while they are trying to do their regular highway work.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And this, the Rail Trail culvert inventory was a great example of partnership with B TRANS. Rather than B TRANS having to make staff available and hire staff to go out and do these necessary inventory of the Rail Trail, they were able to work with the regional planning commissions to get it. So emergency preparedness and transportation are closely related. Christian touched on, and as you all know, road damage is one of the key costs of any sort of flooding or storm event in Vermont. So our work really does help with emergency preparedness by having these inventories that identify these undersized or failing culverts that towns can prioritize in their capital program to improve. The other thing that we do is every year we provide each one of our towns with an updated road atlas that includes all the E911 points. And we give them a full poster size map, as well as a book that each road has its own page. And that's used extensively by public works crews as well as the Siskohe Valley Rescue always gets an updated set every year. And they use that really to familiarize themselves with the region and make sure that they are able to respond in ways that they need to. And then municipal technical assistance. This is really something most appreciated by our towns and really crucial to getting Vermont achieving state goals. As you're familiar with, Vermont has a great habit of establishing a state goal and then expecting two fifty municipalities to implement that. And so we are there to help our towns in their role.

[Christian Meyer]: And Carol will talk about that.

[Kyle Brenner]: Just highlighted a few of the very common requests that we get. Traffic counts, spot speed studies often have to do with speed limit questions. But this is a service that we can provide through our regular technical assistance to a town. The traffic ordinance review and support, that's another one. We're often asked to be a second set of eyes. We've spent a little bit of time also the last couple of weeks with the town of Fairfield with looking at discontinuing a road, the complexity in that. And sounds scary, but it's a road that is you don't know that it's a road. It just exists basically in statute only at this point. Some of the projects we've been able to do through this technical assistance, we've been able to incorporate into our state funding that we receive. And a really good example of that is an intersection study at Vermont 207 and Bushing Road, which is near the location of a very recent District 8 garage in an area that's in the growth center, not only for the town but for the region. It's growing in businesses.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: The community was there

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: year. I remember.

[Kyle Brenner]: There's a lot going on there. And this opportunity through VTrans allowed us to hire a consultant to look at the geometry of this intersection, which has been an issue for years. And we're wrapping that study up, and we'll be able to make some suggestions, not only to VTrans, but to the town at the local level to look at opportunities there for safer travel.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And then a key component of technical assistance is municipal project management. When towns get grants from B TRANS to do these projects, the RPC often serves as the local project manager. We have a couple of bike and pedestrian planning projects that our pilot is working on right now in South Harrow and Sheldon. And then this is just a really cool project, so I had to put a picture up of it. This was a construction project that we managed, Pigeon Pole culvert replacement in Franklin. It went from a five foot old metal culvert, which was woefully undersized and getting sized on both ends. And now it has a new eight by 13 foot box culvert. This required not only cooperation in permitting through the state of Omaha, but we had to go through Army Corps of Engineers permitting. And we managed that with the consultants on behalf of the town. It was a very complicated project, but the results are really quite amazing.

[Christian Meyer]: Two questions. That's two questions.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Just curious how long that project took from start to finish. I'm guessing without looking, about six years, including two construction seasons, one fact that one construction.

[Kyle Brenner]: Yeah, 2020 are some of the dates in those first files. From

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: idea of construction. And part of that was a delay with some Army Corps issues. So it's not always things we can control. It's always surprising to see how long it takes us to get the permitting, the different review processes. Yeah.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Representative Pouech. What caused the Army Corps of Engineers to be brought in on this project, And what would be the criteria of any particular project?

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: I don't know the criteria for any project, but this one I think is related to an adjacent wetland and some drainage connections. The wet one that was probably created by the undersized culvert being in place for your noisy office. Yeah. Then just we collaborate with everybody. Through that, we get great projects. We help further the transportation program. One of the things that I've done for the last thirty years has been part of public transit. And so it's been a pleasure to serve on both Green Mountain Transit Board as well as now the Rural Community Transportation Board now that we've shifted operators to bank on it right now. Kathy, Kyle's also served on that. Do want to talk about R and D?

[Kyle Brenner]: Yeah. And I serve as staff support for the Franklin and Grand Island Mobility Committee, and that's older and persons with disabilities transportation coordination, getting those funds to the appropriate places, getting those questions answered when funding needs to be saved and used strategically. But it's a really great opportunity to get people of all different age well recovery folks, all of those folks that use some of that mobility money.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And so you don't have to brag about yourself. I'll say you represent Vermont on the national board as well through the National Associates and Development Organizations that really helps elevate local voices to the federal agencies.

[Kyle Brenner]: I'm learning a lot about what you had questioned before about how this regional works in other states. And it is every possible option that exists up there.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Congratulations to you, or thank you to you for that effort. You mentioned the transition of public transit. Do you have any comment on what the community reaction, the user's reaction, current status of that transition from Green Mountain Transit to RCT?

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: I would say after many months of uncertainty and the stress that that causes, the transition appears to have happened very smoothly and things seem to be operating very well with the transition from the rural community transportation board side. I can't speak to GMT's side anymore because they're not on that board, but I think that from a community perspective, the transition is a good one and it comes at a good time when RCP is doing a new strategic plan for transit for their service area. So I think there'll be some good opportunities there. We'll have to still make sure we maintain a connection to Chittenden County. We have 10,000 commuters a day that travel between Franklin, Grand Isle and Chittenden County, so it's an important connection that we make sure we maintain.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Won't hold my won't answer your question on the next piece.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And then just finally, even though we're not asked for new projects right now, just because of the very real resource constraints, we do still maintain just in case we have other opportunities that come up. When you get this, you'll see them all here. But we do have our priorities that are in the capital program, as well as our priorities that aren't in the capital program yet.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Those programs that are presently in V Train's list of projects. Yeah,

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: so that's the one. And then the other one is the ones that aren't in there yet, but we know our needs and we're constantly looking for resources to address those needs if the trains isn't taking place to go.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Out of all those projects, what's the percentage of municipality? Are they all municipality projects? There's no retrain, actual highway or state highway. There are some that

[Kyle Brenner]: intersect with those state highways, but for the most part, they all have at least some local.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Right, okay. So really, you're, again, relying on the state grant program to, I don't know, 90% of these would be satisfied, but will need to be satisfied.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Yes, and sometimes there's an opportunity for local funds. So there's an example that's not on this list because it's gonna be taken care of, but on Route 36 in St. Auvinstown and St. Albans Bay, there's a great cream shop there, if that's your thing.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: They've been there too.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Oh, fantastic. So we did a road safety audit review of that intersection. They came up with some pretty attainable, low cost fixes that the town can actually take on, even though it's an intersection with the state highway. I think Well,

[Kyle Brenner]: now Class One Townside.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Oh yeah, now. Before that- Yes,

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: we put in the T bill last year, which is why we toured down there while we were out at the district garage.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: But if that hadn't happened, this town still could have And had some I think that we have to do more of that, of identifying some low cost, no cost flexible fixes. Similar to the wastewater world, if your septic tank fails and you can't get it up to standards, you can do best fix. I think we're in an era where we need to really be thinking more often about- Get

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: 80% there.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: About making it better and not making it perfect.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Thank

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: you very much. I was looking to see which intersection I have on. Representative White?

[Candice White (Member)]: Yeah, thank you. Two questions. So we were talking about the road adoption by the town from V Trans. How has that worked? With winter plowing and so forth, I think I remember that V Trans was going to continue plowing that section of the road, even though you all took it over. I'm just curious how that's played out.

[Kyle Brenner]: The Tuskewetown Highway takeover at the Bay, as far as I know, everything is going really smoothly. The public took the opportunity to say, Okay, so now the town is in charge. Now you need to listen to our concerns, especially local folks. I believe the town is applying for a couple of pretty substantial grants to do some intersection work there and look at what needs to change. Like cyber objects. Exactly, yeah, to best complete those connections and make it as safe as possible.

[Candice White (Member)]: Okay. And is my memory correct that VTrans was continuing to plow that section of break? I think that is correct, because it is such a short segment and it connects between two. Exactly, yeah. And my second question, so it sounds like you have good working relationships with B TRANS and you've got your projects on the list and you know what's going to get on the list next if there's an opportunity. And are you working with your district manager at B TRANS? What part of B TRANS do you coordinate most directly with?

[Kyle Brenner]: I work the most with policy and planning. So Matthew Orencio is our program manager, and he and I talk almost daily. So when there are those questions or needs for those connections, he's really there to help foster those. We definitely work with the district as well as specifics come up.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Matthew Rinzer was in here testifying earlier this year. I don't remember exactly what, but I know he's been here. Usually he's finally on the side of intact meetings. You had mentioned the route to South Harrow pedestrian activity. Is that all the way up in the village or before that three lane piece? What are you looking at there?

[Kyle Brenner]: So it's that area at the boat fishing access and Apple Island Resort. Okay. So connections there.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: In one of the early meetings that I attended, and I still keep this in the back of my mind as we work in the committee, in the exact same meeting, I don't know how you guys handle the amount of balance of wants and needs, but there are two routes that come to the highway for a huge amount of commuters. You mentioned 10,000 commuters leaving Franklin County and Grand Isle County to go to work in Chittenden County, one hundred four, one hundred five. And people would say they race to the interstate to get and to go. And then you have US 2 coming out of the Grand Isle to get to the highway to get to Chittenden County. And US Route 2 is this huge, wide, beautiful, open, you got to go right to come across left. You got right hand turn lanes. It's just what some people would imagine to be an incredible road. So the people on Route 104 and 105 up in Franklin County want their road to look like Route 2. And they want it wider, and they want more room, they want right hand turn lanes. And the very next group to talk about what they wanted was this Grand Isle people who said, you have to shrink this road. The work that you've done is terrible. It increases speed. It makes it unsafe. It's not safe for pedestrians. It's not safe for people. We need traffic calming, and we need to take this road and turn it into something else. And the very same meeting, the group of people are saying, we want that road in our neighborhood. And I have had that in the back of my mind of planning and every time we talk about projects. And I don't know how a transportation plan can work effectively. It's

[Kyle Brenner]: very hard for people

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: to know what they need and what they want. And it's in the exact same meeting that they want to swap roads, in effect. And both options are terrible, depending on how you look at it. So I certainly struggle with the struggles you have on a regular basis.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And I think the new B TRANS multimodal design standards are really gonna be key to finding that middle road and having that context sensitive plan for what roadway corridor should look like. And aligning that with our regional land use planning is going to be a really key point of future, I think.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Does the process for looking at speed limits in municipalities and state roads and how it interacts with you guys, Does it work? Does it not work? Does it need to be reviewed? Does it need to consider a change in some kind of way? Does it matter where you sit whether you think it works or doesn't work?

[Kyle Brenner]: From my perspective, I think it works because I think that there is I think it's very difficult for somebody who local, who's experiencing what they believe to be traffic that's moving too fast. It's very difficult for the average person to actually equate how fast a vehicle is traveling. So the traffic studies that we do, when we collect that speed data, it really puts some science behind what's actually happening, and it gives the opportunity for somebody to look at numbers versus feel. Now, feel is something that's measured in a different way. So having the opportunity to look at what those metrics look like and make your decision or make your next steps based on that, I think, is really important and really helpful. Somebody says their cars are going 80 miles an hour. My family lives six feet off of that road, so they feel like the traffic is always going 80 miles an hour, and it's usually 35.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: I think where there could potentially be some shifting is a little more attention paid on the plan for the area that the road travels through, even if the geometry of the road might suggest a certain speed, just a little more thinking about the village areas and the transitions and where there is potentially a mismatch between how the road is built and how the road is used and figuring out the best speed for those places. I think of particularly around Sheldon Elementary School under 105 where you've got four speed limit transitions and a few mile stretch. And maybe there's some combination of traffic calming and speed limit management that could help places like that.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: And you had that on the study list. Is that in process or just done, or where was that?

[Kyle Brenner]: So that's really that's more looking at getting pedestrians and bikes from the school to the rail trail, so crossing and then continuing down a local street, not necessarily looking at those speeds in the area.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: But it will help, I think, as an example for how you can manage

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Well, it's a big wide open area that you can't if you add kids to that, when you have kids in that area, certainly. But it could look a whole lot different. It could be far more attractive, it could be far more safe, I suppose. And the rail trail is right there. So I'm glad to hear that that's on the list. I don't recall reading that one on the list or seeing that one.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: And we see people taking traffic speed limit coming in their own hands, like the folks who put mannequins out of their five ways. They helped.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: I was just going say that's certainly a theme of this, someone in the committee anyways, I think is this balance of state roads, getting from one municipality to the other. But somehow, I think in front of my house, goes from 50 to 30, maybe in 200 yards, but first it goes to 40, then it goes to 30, you know, but that just doesn't work. So just trying to find that balance to allow municipalities to have walkable, you know, environment. And yet we've got traffic coming through that they're not necessarily at 07:30 in the morning interested in looking at the views.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: The balancing of the mobility and the function.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Is there anything else you'd like we need to know about the work you do or any help that we might be able to give?

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Only help is, I think, continuing with what I thanked you for in the beginning, which is everything that we can do to make funding more accessible to our municipalities in the easiest way possible with the fewest hurdles along the way. Appreciate that.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: I've asked if we could just take some of the VTrans cash in our pockets and just hand it out to our municipality. Yeah.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Nice try.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: Thank you very much.

[Phil Pouech (Ranking Member)]: Thank you.

[Kathryn Demetriuk]: Thanks for having us. We appreciate you.

[Matt Walker (Chair)]: And we are