Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: We are live.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Welcome back to the House Judiciary Committee this Wednesday morning, the March 18. We are now going to look at a couple, 12 provisions, think, in H657. And we're gonna have the reporter and also the co reporter. What's your answer? The resident expert. The resident expert who are going to explain the two provisions that we need to look at. So whoever wants to do that, whoever wants to take the front seat there. If

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: you can point us to the page in precisely where we're supposed to look at it, of course. Martin, Steve Holly will do this. Yeah. Because you don't need to quite look at it yet. Representative Van Donahue, and I just wanted to come to give you the big picture. Is a bill about kids. Kids who need protection in some way or another, ways to help our young people, particularly older teens and so forth, in all different ways, in all different segments, hold various bills together, actually, not that you folks are gonna do that kind of thing, but we hope Terry is supposed to laugh.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: It's like Jeb Bush, please file.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: But as such, there actually were several of us. I'm I'm the reporter, but there are several of us who really focused on particular areas and pulling the pieces together. And in this case, the part of the bill you're looking at, which is about unaccompanied homeless youth, and representative Miguel was really the leader on that section. And so I am gonna introduce her to you. Yeah.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Alright. So representative Miguel, if

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: you

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: could identify yourself in the record and proceed, point out where we're looking at.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Good. I'm Julie Miguel. I'm also on House Human Services. And the section in question starts on page five. You'll see it's section four of the bill, Unaccompanied Youth. And just to give you some background about how we got here, after my first year in the legislature, I was recommended by our speaker to apply for the NCSL Youth Homelessness Cohort or Fellows Program. And so I did, and I was accepted. And this is where I first learned about this concept of this middle ground for unaccompanied youth. It's not quite the, you know, becoming emancipated is a really high bar. And for this particular population, with their kind of current resources they generally have available to them, pretty impossible. But they still have really critical needs. And what states all over the country have found is this mechanism of ensuring that they can meet their basic needs despite not having a parent or guardian present in their life able to provide that consent. So 33 other states have a medical provision, and then 18 of those states also have the ability for them to gain access to shelter and accompanying services. In particular, I read through all of these bills, and I really liked the way Florida handled it. So the language, if you go and look at Florida statute, well, to start, it was basically word for word. We have made some changes in committee based on recommendations and requests from the administration. So it looks a little different, but it's still very largely based on Florida statute. And the thing you're here to look at today, I think, is the immunity from liability for folks I'm just trying to get to the exact page because I closed my There we go. On page nine, I think if you're looking at the same copy, immunity from liability. So any entity provider or health care professional who contracts with an unaccompanied youth pursuant to this section.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: It's on page nine?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, and it's on Okay, I wasn't sure. There's different versions. It's on six?

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: Subsection F?

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Could we be looking at the bill as we introduce? Probably not.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: No. Okay. Oh, yes.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yes. It started as just the unaccompanied homeless youth bill, then a lot of things were added.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Eight point eight point one is the Wow. So we

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: don't press. Sorry about that.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: That'd Something before eight point one would still have that detection, but not back

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: to Yeah, we made some minor changes here and there at the end, so it would largely be the same.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: So does anybody need to see this?

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: I mean, I'd like to have the language in front of me

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: if I'm Yeah. It's hard to get

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: off here in Patubali.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: It's it's on our website.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: If you go to Thursday of last week under Katie McLenn, you can find it there on our page.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: And also, I'm emailing it to everybody right now.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Yeah, didn't have a bill number.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Yeah, but it's 8.1, right? Yes.

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: Okay, after doing that.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Okay. I

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: think a pig just slipped by the window.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Oh yeah, it's 36 pages here now.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Okay. Yeah, yeah, it's a big bill. Page Page nine nine. Is where the immunity from liability section is. If you want, we can go through more and talk about the definitions, who we're actually counting as an unaccompanied youth. They're youth who are homeless. We started with 16 and 17 year olds. I mentioned there's 33 states that have some kind of similar provision. Some started as young as 12. So there's varying ages. We went with 16 and 17, as we know from the Department Family Services Division and from service providers in the field. That's where their involvement with youth 18 kind of becomes a little more hands off. It takes a higher bar for their involvement. And so we do. In Vermont, we have, across every corner, we have unaccompanied youth living in our state. That number has increased rapidly since COVID. Pre COVID, the numbers as counted by our agency on education hovered in the 50s per year. And since then, as of the last count, they were up at 132. So it's increasing. So we have these youth. Yes.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Why did it explode like that?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: I think homelessness in general has really increased rapidly. And so when that happens, you see unaccompanied homeless youth. When you're 16 and your family, let's say, gets kicked out of the hotels, going and living with mom or dad in a tent isn't really the greatest option. So they may first go and stay with a friend for a couple of nights, and then another friend. These are children who are not physically in the custody of their parent. It's a federally defined category. We have programs within our schools that work with all homeless youth and also collect data on those who are unaccompanied in Vermont.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: So I understand that, but we didn't start really dialing back the hotel program until last year, late last year, I'm not mistaken. Correct? So I'm just I'm still wondering why such a spike

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: I think, And how

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: it all developed, the massive increase, it all came from. It's like

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, no, it is shocking. And this bill is not about solving that issue, which I think is really important. This is about making sure that these youth can get access to medical care when they have a toothache and they don't know where their parent is, or it's not safe for them to go and get that consent from their parent. So this is really about ensuring that youth can meet those needs, and making sure it's done through pathways where we know these are people with their best interests at heart.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Yeah.

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: I know it's not our jurisdiction, but we do this all the time. Yeah. When a bill comes in, we we get off topic, very nice. I'll say, I do. No. I'm just wondering. I have no problem, you know, taking care of youth like that. I mean, it makes sense other than to, you know, leave 16, 17 year olds out on the street by themselves. I'm just wondering, once they get in the program about wraparound services to guide them, to give them a kickstart, I guess you could say, for life.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah. And see, that's the issue, is we have resources to help these youth. Currently, we can't provide them. It's like we've got these resources, but people's hands are tied by this need to have the consent

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: this does guardian. This, it gets them into those services?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: It allows us that. Yes, it allows. If you look at the people who can certify, that is on page Oops. So A, it can be the district's homeless liaison. That's kind of who I talked about previously. They're funded through the McKinney Vento. Each district has one. So there's an entity that can certify or other appropriate administrative staff at the school. The director of an emergency shelter funded by the state, director of runaway and homeless youth programs. Those are the folks who have the specific funding to serve this population federally through the Administration for Children and Families, Family Youth Services Bureau, as well as HUD. And then the Continuum of Care lead agency are their designee, the Chief Juvenile Defender or designee, or the Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence. So these are all people who have a menu of options that they can either provide to the youth themselves, or they have those long standing connections to the people who have these services. And that's the really important thing, is making sure we're guiding these really vulnerable youth to these people who have their best interests at heart. Because when they don't, then they become really susceptible to violence, exploitation, trafficking. And that is something I think we can all agree we don't want to see.

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: And one thing I I would love to see language on some level. You know, all all those services are great, but I I didn't hear anything that that says that these services are actually taking the kids and putting putting them into some type of program that that's gonna lift them up and not leave them in the situation where they're they're being taken care of. Yeah. We love to see some language like that that's that's more definitive as far as I was gonna say pushing them along, but that that that doesn't sound good. But but certainly

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: Encouraging them. Encouraging them.

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: Yeah. Nurturing them to, you know, get into, I

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: guess,

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: a normal life other than the life they continuing the life that they're in now and breaking that cycle. I just didn't hear that. I heard all the great programs that are there for them to take care of them right now, but I didn't really hear anything for the future.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, I mean, I could suggest people to come in and they can talk to you about the programs, the big ones who have the funding, they're federally funded. And yes, like the programs, that's what you do. You go in, they come in, they meet their immediate needs under federal mandate. These service providers are, their goal is whenever possible to reconnect the youth and their family. And so that involves intensive individual counseling and family counseling. It involves they're required to work with them on education pathways and exploring what is gonna be the best avenue for them, working on employment opportunities if they're of an age where they're old enough to work. It's exploring those long term. If home isn't a safe or healthy choice for them at the moment, what kind of other programs? Could we be looking at transitional housing? So yes, that is exactly what these people are doing. But currently, unless they have the parents' consent, they can't do it. And so these youth are just out in the community, really susceptible to whatever adult kind of enters in their life. And unfortunately, they're not necessarily always going to be someone with a positive influence on

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: No, it's good to hear

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: that there is that continuing ed, I'll call it.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, yeah.

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: Which doesn't specifically state, but

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yes, yes, no, and they learn life skills.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: I don't think

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Even things like how to clean your space and cook, in addition to working on their mental health, their physical health, and long term stability.

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: And the thing that really caught me, what you said was education and I didn't say job training, but you said something about unemployment.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: That's

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, yeah. And I like to think of it as like a big picture, you know, like what are your employment goals and what is your education goals and how do they fit into each other? And how do you get there?

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: Great to hear that.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Thank you. Alright. So now I'm gonna That was interesting, I'm gonna focus on what the question is. Yeah. Sorry. No. Was interesting. So it's my understanding to try to get to crux of at least one of the things we're looking at is that without the consent of the parent, the certified unaccompanied youth, I'm looking at page seven right now, may use the completed form to do a number things, including entering contracts related to health care, related to, I guess, employment, buying an automobile, housing, etc. And then we get to the immunity provision, is at the end of page nine. Page 10, it's essentially it's saying that any of those providers to the unaccompanied youth would be immune for their determination to actually enter the contract with the youth unless there was gross negligence. And that's the part, that kind of last thing, and we're kind of making that, all right, are we okay with that? Because we deal with the immunity provisions a lot.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Yeah,

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: that yeah. Was copy and pasted from Florida statute when we did the bill. So that's where it comes from. I think it's important. We could give these youth this option, but we don't want When they go to get medical treatment, we want them to be able to get treatment in that moment and not have their provider turn them away. We don't want people to hesitate to help these youth.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Because they need people to be liable if they help youth.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Exactly. What kind of services

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: are covered in this?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: What kind of services?

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: From the immunity provision.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: From the immunity, it's shall be immune from liability for the determination to contract with a minor unless they acted with gross negligence. So it's just kind of protecting them by the fact that they contracted with the youth, that they wouldn't be liable for that. But they're still liable

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: contract. For example, if I'm an unaccompanied minor and unhoused youth, if I'm going to a local healthcare professional and saying, Let me just write a contract here. I, Zachary Harvey, release liability, etcetera, sign here, sign here. Or is this a legal document in the eyes of the law? Like, what is that contract? Is it a social contract? Is it a legal contract? What is a contract?

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: So anywhere where you would be required to sign their name to buy a car or, you know for healthcare or to rent an apartment, for example, you got to sign a lease. You have to be a certain age to do that. And what this is telling say the landlord is, wait a minute, I can't sign a lease if you're under 18. Now here's my certification. They look at it, they say, oh, okay, it's got a stamp, it's got a signature. I now will not be liable for having rented to a 17 year old without getting their parent to co sign it because the law says that piece of the agreement, the age limit for consent, is covered by the state's document. So it's for that specific purpose, for them to be able to rely on the certificate that we've authorized in lieu of the parent's consent when they're under 18.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: And it's interesting because I think one of the things that we do talk about in this committee frequently is the age limit. So it sounds like 18 is the threshold that we're working with within the confines of this legislation. So that's reassuring to hear. What I come back to, and I don't think that this is the role of myself or the committee, to make the determination whether a 16 year old should be able to sign a lease themselves. Because my question is, one, do they have the financial ability or wherewithal to maintain that residence? Again, this is one isolated example looking at real estate. Where I get more concerned is when it goes into the healthcare sphere, is you have people that may not have the agency or the support system at home undergoing, whether it's surgeries or procedures or whatever it might look like, without any kind of guidance from an adult. And the doctor is just taking them at their whim saying, Well, I'm immune from this and you're requesting the service to be provided, I guess as long as you're asking and we sign this document, I'm fine. And so that's where my concern with the immunity shield comes in. And it's not a reflection of whether, I it's a very noble bill. I think it's looking to accomplish something that's serving a very important population within the state. But my concern is how far is your country, especially with immunity? Because it is I a

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: think it was a good example to work with the the landlord. The landlord's still looking at whether this person can pay rent. They're to say, 16, what kind of doctor have you How do you The only thing this is protecting them on is the fact that it's a 17 or 16 year old signing. And they still do all of their due diligence and that's on them. But they're immune from a parent coming and saying, how could you sign this lease with my kid? I'm upset about it.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: Well, I guess, and maybe this is a question for the chair just because I'm not sure on this, but what would the criminal culpability be for a landlord renting to a minor without this immunity provision?

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: The second part that's before you will come to that because there is potential criminal liability. I don't know what's called aiding and abetting a runaway. And so that issue is the second issue that come up.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: And I guess just one other question just while we're here. I'm thinking of in terms of the term unaccompanied, is it unaccompanied minor or unaccompanied youth?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Unaccompanied youth. It's federal term, and we worked it in.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: I just want

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: make sure, for my own note, I'm using the correct terminology for the bill. So say you have this unaccompanied youth, there's some kind of family dispute, which tends to happen as children progress into adolescence and to young adults. They get in a nasty fight with their parents and say, You know what? I'm running from home. I'm done with this. I have this provision. I have this community provision. I'm gonna move into my own apartment.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: And then all of a

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: sudden they reconcile with their parents. So I'm just kind of curious how this bill captures the definition of unaccompanied youth. Can someone phase out of that definition if all of a sudden their families are back in communication and good standing?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, it's not like it stays with you, and that's purposely why they have the paper and their service providers will have copies and their doctor, but it's not like this permanent label that gets it fixed to you. If you go home, then obviously your parents can make that doctor's appointment and bring them to them. This does not take away the parents' custody or interfere with that at all. It is just when the youth is not at home, when it's not safe or they don't have a home to be in or they've been abandoned, they have a way to meet their access these and pretty essential accompanying things like vital event certificates, like your birth certificate or a photo ID, those kinds of things, so that they can build a stable life with being surrounded by the kind of people we want them to be surrounded by and not

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: I can add as a descriptor, the program I used to work for many years ago, which was runaway and homeless youth, but a lot of times we worked with throwaways. That's what characterizes these kids. It's not as if they have a home to go back to or it's able to be a support home.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Also think, you know, I've heard some fears that, well, kids are going to just run away to get these great benefits, like medical care. That hasn't happened in other states, and I don't expect it to happen here. Those youth, maybe you get in a fight because mom and dad wouldn't let you go to your friend's house to a gathering on Friday night. Those youth go back on their own. It is really hard to be out away from a loving family without supportive adults surrounding you, without resources. And those youth, their parents will consent to them entering in a youth commissioner designated youth shelter. They'll attend the family counseling so that those youth can return back home. And they're really successful. We see in our work, it's not like they run away again. They're pretty much, once that work happens, it's really easy to, with the proper supports, to get that youth and their family on a good path. These youth don't have, you know, the adult isn't being part of that. So I just wanna make sure that people realize that this isn't going to lead to lots of kids running away. It is really hard. Even with all of these benefits and access, their lives are still going to be incredibly hard. Every step is going to be a challenge. There will be barriers all over the place. We are just trying to remove some of the barriers to the most basic essential components of the pyramid of life.

[Rep. Kenneth Goslant (Clerk)]: Thank you.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: Is there federal liability that a contractor could have that this would not immunize them from?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, state in, there's the, you know, nothing in this section, so it'll be construed as altering the interstate compact for juveniles. So when a youth runs away, you know, in our work, when a youth, we realize, Oh my gosh, this child is from New York, we immediately act. They'll stay with the youth, keep them safe, but they contact the other state, and it's our duty to return them. And other states, we expect that they do the same. In terms of federal, any of the things we authorized were things that we have control of within our state. And this is tried and true. Like I said, it's really

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: Using the example that's come up is somewhat a landlord who rents Section eight housing. And so I don't know if that could potentially implicate them.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, HUD has. HUD is one of the funders. HUD actually has It's called the Youth Homelessness Demonstration Project. There are four grants within Vermont, and it is allowed by HUD, this special program, to serve youth 16 up until the day before their 20 birthday. So it allows that long kind of trajectory of supports. There are multi year programs that have case management, really intensive services, some additional financial supports, rental assistance. It's really we have a lot of resources. We just need to be able to actually serve the youth.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: And I guess just so I understand the population, and this is super educational, I really appreciate you walking us through this. So you're talking about the impact of populations, about 132 youth in the state.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Of the last school year. And that is the ones that have been tracked and reported our So you can imagine with this population, they are also one of the most likely to drop out of school. And so unfortunately, we don't have currently a reliable system to count those youth and make sure So we don't have a full picture of the number in

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: our city.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: Likely it's much higher.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Absolutely. For multiples of 132.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: So what I'm hearing as far as the interstate compact is that if we have a youth from, say, New York State that comes across the border I mean, I live in Mid State on the New York border. So Graniteville, Whitehall, very close to Castleton, and we have a lot of youth that are going for football games and etcetera, etcetera. So I could totally see the case to be made where, especially in the day of digital infrastructure and social media, that these teams are communicating, and it would be very easy to imagine a youth from New York State coming over to Vermont. Would that individual be covered by this bill?

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Yeah. It's

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: only Vermont residents that the cupboard?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yes. They have to we buy the juvenile we they have to we have to as soon as we learn that they're we're required to ensure they get back to Okay. Their home

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Okay, so I think the other part you want us to look at is on It's right after that.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yeah, it's very convenient.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Title 13. Yeah, if you could.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yes. So this is, yeah, Title 13, and that kind of covers runaway unlawful sheltering aiding of a runaway child. And so this kind of defines what that looks like. A person commits the crime of sheltering, unlawfully sheltering or aiding if they knowingly shelter a runaway child, intentionally help a child to run away, or knowingly takes, entices, or harbors a child with the intent of committing a criminal act. And then there are some exemptions. So, a shelter or the director's agent or employees of a shelter designated by Commissioner for Children and Families. When I talked about one of those groups of certifiers, probably the group that will be the most likely to certify, those are the ones who have the resources, the ones funded through ACF and HUD. And they are the only ones in Vermont who have the commission designated shelter. So they are exempt from this position, from this part, as long as they're acting in accordance with the law. And then the second part is a person who has taken the child into custody pursuant to 33 BSA 5,205. Those ones, I believe, are I have to go back now. We haven't found hand left. Yeah, I think those are the ones, like we talked about, like when a youth runs away or you discover, but I'm not sure. I have to look that up. That was existing. What this part does, the only change is it just adds a person providing assistance pursuant to 33 BSA 4,908. So that's what we've just added into statute. So that's if a landlord or more likely it's going to be I can think in my county, we have an organization. They actually have transitional housing that could serve unaccompanied homeless youth. They have a couple of spots open right now. And we have unaccompanied youth in Addison County right now who could really benefit from those. But their parents are not available to provide consent. So instead, those youth are bouncing around couches. I know one was sleeping in people's garages when they could find it, when they could be in a safe, warm environment, access to food, twenty four hour support, access to education and employment opportunities. So we want to just ensure that under this part of Vermont statute, they couldn't be accused of harboring a runaway.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: In terms of the services that are paid for by the state, I'm just So if I'm

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: They're not paid for by the state.

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: They're not paid

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: for by They're federal funding.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: So I guess in the instance where, say, HUD comes down and says, you know what? This just isn't a program that we can afford anymore, or it's an impacted If there are funding cuts or whatever it might be down in Washington, I guess, how do you envision so if there's a stop gap, what is that stop gap? I guess that's kind

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: of what my question is.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: You mean, we still have So

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: funding is cut from the federal government, and we still have all these teens that are living in shelters or whatever it might be. They're not getting so I guess the money follows them from the federal funding, but if the federal funding stops, there wouldn't be an intervention by the state.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: There's still some smaller state funded. We have COMPASS, which is our state Medicaid. That funds a lot of the case management work happening. So that's still there. There are state programs that also kind of work with this population or where funding is braided to really provide holistic support. So, are state funding that does That

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: is part of this.

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: That really augments it. I think, I know these people in the field. I work with them, and they'll find a way to make sure this population is cared for if that's fundraising, and I think we'll have to, that would lead to more bills and budget discussions, but I still don't think that means we don't allow these youth to access the resources that are available now.

[Rep. Zachary Harvey (Member)]: Does GFO have a fiscal analysis on this?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yes, this is de minimis, this portion of the bill. Other there are other But for

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: the bill itself. Third thing also.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: So it's in ways and means now. Is it also going to appropriations after ways and means?

[Rep. Julie Miguel (House Human Services)]: Yes. It will have to go to appropriations. There's some more it's more the big money part of it is this bill currently, Vermont, if we have youth, like let's say in foster care, and maybe their parents have passed away and they're receiving survivor's benefits, or maybe they have a disability and they're receiving SSI. Currently, state we take is their rep payee and uses those funds to help cover the cost of their care. Where a lot of states used to do that and more and more are moving away from doing that, we received a letter from the Trump administration that we should be moving away from doing that. So the big part of the bill is The most costly part is doing that, which is gonna happen. The fiscal impact of that is not this year, but we'll start to see it next year.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: So and and so the bill probably on the floor next week because it still has

[Unknown Representative (Reporter of H.657, House Human Services)]: Yeah. Sound

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: needs to still be stopped. So alright. So I don't wanna know people some people have noon meetings, So we're gonna We can keep on that. Hopefully, the two additional witnesses I have, Adam talking about the immunity part and Kenny talking about the private thirteen part, 11:15 to between 11:15 and noon tomorrow. I'm hoping that we can have you guys in then if possible. So we're all live until tomorrow morning at 09:00, and we will be in Room 11. It'll be appearing on what happened last week in South Burlington. We're gonna have mostly, it's gonna be our law enforcement kind of So we'll see you