Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Live. Alright. Welcome back to the House Judiciary Committee this Wednesday afternoon, February eleventh. We're continuing testimony on the budget, different budget presentations. And this afternoon, we're gonna hear from the executive director for that's not who we're gonna Yes. Me go ahead get ready. Director of Vermont Legal Aid. If you could identify yourself a little bit. Thank you for being here. Thank you.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: Thank you for having us. I appreciate this opportunity. My name is Bessie Weiss. I am interim executive director at Vermont Legal Aid. Vermont Legal Aid as a whole with its sister organization Legal Services Vermont provides the core of the state's civil legal assistance efforts and has served in that role for nearly sixty years. I'm here today to speak to our budget request for state fiscal year 2027 and to highlight that the governor's proposed budget does not maintain level funding for Vermont Legal Aid. Specifically, it proposes eliminating the appropriation that funds the Medicare advocacy project known as MAP. This program has been part of about legal aid since it was established by statute in 1989, and VLA has since that time held long term contracts with Veeva to operate it. My testimony today will begin by focusing on MAP and the critical importance of restoring the funding for this program in the budget. I will then address our broader budget request, emphasizing the essential role Vermont Legal Aid plays in meeting a wide range of legal needs at a crucial time for Vermonters. Turning to MAP. The purpose of MAP, again, the Medicare advocacy project, is to ensure that dual eligible individuals, those individuals eligible for both Medicare and Medicaid, receive the Medicare coverage to which they are entitled. When MAP finds a provider who is billing Medicaid for a service when instead it should be rightfully billed to Medicare, MAP works to recover those health care costs to the state. With the massive federal cuts to Medicaid in H. R. One, known as the Big Beautiful Bill, securing federal Medicare dollars for Vermonters critical healthcare is now more important than ever. I would like to tell you about some of MAP's accomplishments over the years. Since 2000, recovery for the state has exceeded what VLA has received from the state for this work by roughly $3,400,000 A couple of other significant accomplishments for MAP was the success of a class action lawsuit MAP helped to win with the Center for Medicare Advocacy in Connecticut. The name to plaintiff Glenda Jimmow was a resident of Lincoln, Vermont. In a 2013 settlement, Medicare agreed that it would cover maintenance, nursing, and therapies for people with conditions that could not improve. For example, people with ALS, Parkinson's, paraplegia, thus expanding Medicare coverage for millions of people across the country. Prior to that, they had an improvement standard for providing services to folks. MAP appeals have been critical in getting Vermonters access to better health care in facilities and critical home health care paid for by Medicare. Over the years, the VLA has done this work. There has been a large shift to Medicare billing for home health care, resulting in a reduction of Medicaid billing from home health of 2,000,000 from ten years ago. Home health care avoids expensive longer stays or even readmission to skilled nursing facilities. Therefore, we were shocked to learn two weeks ago by listening to testimony in the House Appropriations Committee that the Governor's budget proposes to eliminate Matt. This comes despite Vermont Legal Aid being awarded a new five year contract in November after a competitive bid and without any communication or warning from about canceling the contract. While it is true that the contract price has seeded recovery in recent years, there are multiple reasons for this. At the outset of COVID, we were directed by Diva to cease recovery efforts for several months. Recovery from skilled nursing facilities remain difficult with the ongoing disruption of COVID in the years following the pandemic. The Genesis bankruptcy of July 2025 that affected nine facilities resulted in MAPS freezing over 200,000 in potential claims. And Medicare Part C plans added a whole additional layer to billing appeals. There would first be the appeal to the Part C plan, then the appeal to Medicare. And categories of appeals had multiple levels to them. And as you know, Vermont no longer has Part C plans, so they're no longer part of the landscape. Which brings me to what MAP is working on right now with Diva to improve recovery. In our bid last fall, we acknowledged the challenging landscape of declining Medicare reimbursements and proposed solutions. These strategies are currently being implemented, such as meeting with DIVA staff to discuss ways to improve data collection and provider education, already holding a training last month for DIVA's provider relations staff to train on Medicare coverage standards. Plans for multiple training sessions with health care providers on the importance of proper Medicare documentation requirements for successful appeals. Plans for quarterly meetings with DIVA to review data quality and progress. And between cases opened in 2025 and last month, MAP is currently pursuing over 1,100,000.0 in Medicaid recruitment. Finally, we do not believe the state has complied with the statutory criteria for ending MAP. The statute requires two criteria be met before the Commissioner of DIVA is permitted to end the contract. Those criteria are the amount of the state's share of recoveries during the preceding year did not exceed payments. And the Commissioner determines based upon information from Vermont Legal Aid as a contract holder, providers, Areas, Agencies on Aging, the AAAs, and others affected by the program that it is not accomplishing its goal of protecting dual eligible individuals from improper denials of Medicare coverage. And you can find that authority at 33 BSA section 6,703. In addition, it seems unlikely that plans currently exist to bring this work in house to DIVA, given the newly awarded contract, the lack of the commission's termination, and the level of expertise that is needed to do the work. The team of attorneys and paralegals assigned to MAP at VLA are experts in Medicare and Medicaid law. By losing MAP, Vermont would lose its billing watchdog. It is easier to bill Medicaid, and there is every reason to believe providers will increasingly do so. If MAP funding is not restored, Vermont Legal Aid would lose nearly $530,000 in state fiscal year 2027. Such a hole in our budget would have ripple effects beyond the loss of MAP. It would require further staff layoffs. And it is important for the community to also be aware that the attorneys in MAP do vital work for our elder law project. I can't overstate how critical it is that the legislature restore MAP funding in the budget, and we would be happy to report back to the committee next January on our progress. Will unless there are questions on that for now, I'll turn to the rest of our budget presentation.

[Rep. Ian Goodnow (Member)]: That'll be great.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: I stated, VLA with Legal Services Vermont are the only providers of a range of core legal services throughout the state. We offer free legal advice and representation to low income Vermonters from four offices located across Vermont. We operate a statewide legal helpline providing quick legal advice, information and referral. We maintain a website that guides Vermonters on how to solve their legal problems on their own that gets over 600,000 hits per year. We field 26,000 requests for legal assistance every year, and last year we directly assisted 18,000 Vermonters. We provided full representation in approximately 2,600 to 3,000 cases a year. Despite the overwhelming need and increasing demand for legal services, this will be our third straight year that we have not received an increase in our appropriation from the Agency of Human Services. Level funding is hitting us especially hard because of significant federal funding cuts and annual increases to our costs, especially in health insurance premiums. In state fiscal year 2025, Vermont Legal Aid lost over $4,500,000 in federal funding. An increase in our state fiscal '27 appropriation compensate us for inflation, restore two staff attorney positions in our poverty law project, provide better statewide access to our chronically underfunded helpline, and fund a vital new project that helps immigrant families stay together. The poverty law project provides general legal services and is being squeezed as a greater percentage of our appropriation goes to mandatory legal services, such as involuntary mental health treatment cases, protective services, guardianship cases, and Act two forty eight cases. The vast majority of Vermonters cannot afford legal counsel. They need attorneys to access legal help, especially at a time when the state is investing heavily in housing stability and health care. Vermonters need advocates and lawyers to help them navigate these complex systems. Vermont Legal Aid provides that guidance and representation, helping people stay housed and access health care and benefits that they have earned and are entitled to. Now moving on to our helpline. Our statewide helpline fields 26,000 calls every year. It provides remotely delayed with many of our case referrals and provides some level of direct assistance to approximately 18,000 Vermonters, but it is significantly underfunded. The helpline receives just $100,000 through our AHS appropriation. The total operating cost is over $900,000 Due to the reduction in staff, we have already needed to restrict the types of calls that receive a callback, and the callback time for non urgent calls has increased to almost two weeks. Moreover, there's been a surge in demand by more than 100% since 2022. Without additional funds, helpline services will likely be further eroded. Increasing funding for the poverty law project and legal helpline is a good investment for the state in two ways. The first is that for every dollar spent on general legal services, and that would generally be access to public benefits, food, energy assistance, social security disability, disability, housing. The agency of human services gets 50¢ back in federal matching funds. The second is that a 2019 study commissioned by the Vermont Bar Foundation found that legal assistance programs generate $11 in economic activity for each dollar invested in Vermont legal aid and other legal assistance providers. That makes sense if you think about it for a minute, because by keeping people housed and receiving the benefits to which they have earned and are entitled to, they can continue to be productive and help the economy. Our last request is around a new program, our immigrant minor guardianship program. In February, Vermont Legal Aid responded to the needs of the community by establishing a program to help families make a plan in case of family separation. Remote legal aid staff and trained attorney volunteers meet with immigrant families who have a trusted relative or friend to fill out guardianship petitions that would take effect should the parents be detained or deported. Since this work began, plans have been established for over 75 families with more than 130 children. Without a plan and a guardian, the children could land in DCF custody and would likely remain there until the age of majority since DCF could not reunite them with their parents in a foreign country. This work is not eligible for funds through the Immigrant Legal Defense Fund since that funding is reserved for providing legal representation in deportation cases. Therefore, the work is largely unfunded and costs, legal aid approximately 150,000 to maintain. As I said, we already lost staff last year. Even without the loss of MAP funding, we are looking at another deficit budget. The loss of over a half 1,000,000 in MAP funding combined with no additional funds would be devastating. We would lose more talented and dedicated staff, and our ability to continue to serve as the core provider of free civil legal aid services would take a substantial hit. And the outlook for federal funding is bleak. Congress will be cutting funding to our sister organization, Legal Services Vermont, by approximately 3.8 from the current funding year. And there have been threats here and there to the federal funds that support the disability law project. And despite having been awarded a fair housing grant through HUD that we had lost last year after maintaining that grant for nineteen years, we've yet to receive the funding. We do understand that the state and you are facing unprecedented challenges this session, and we appreciate the funding we received through the state and with your help. Thank you again for this opportunity, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: Barbara? Thank you. I'm wondering a couple of things. One is the figure about every dollar and benefits returns 50¢ a match. Is any of that jeopardized from the federal cuts that happened or it still is returning? It still is returning 50¢ on every dollar. That's the AHS funding I was talking about. Right, okay. I just wanted to make sure that nothing changed in that landscape. And the the MAP project, I don't know which department, it sounds like Diva is the one that fits. So I don't know if you've testified in the health care committee, but it just seems like as we're looking at making sure we're addressing all kinds of costs and revenues, that committee, it seems like, would want to weigh in on things. And I started thinking about the mistakes that could be made in terms of the state or providers, I should say, billing Medicaid rather than Medicare. And I know that since, at least since you and I started serving the false claims, Tax Stop passed, and the AG's office does a lot of work on that, including financial rewards. Not that legal aid should be funded on financial bounties, but on the other hand, the state best resources in making sure that there isn't fraud. And so I'm just wondering if the AG's office is at all interested in pursuing any kind of

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: No,

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: thank you for thinking out of the box. So I was an AAG for fifteen, sixteen years, and I'm certainly aware of that work. I don't know how much freedom they have to disperse those funds. I don't think they And I know there have been

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: times with some of our former AGs where they knew that they could bring in more revenue if they had more resources. And some of that was through false claims and some of that was through lawsuits. But again, I'm just thinking, just trying to think of creative ways as Yeah. I also just try to look at how are other legal aids funded? And I know that a lot of states give part of their court fines and fees, and that's obviously not a great solution here because as it is, the places that that money is going to isn't working. Obviously, the governor's budget didn't put this in. But, like, have you been able to talk to them at all about, like, how the numbers were down during COVID? It's like

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: Well, I I will say that that, as I said, up until two weeks ago, we had no idea this was coming for us. And we were very surprised because we did get the contract after a competitive bid, and that was just awarded to us in November. As I said, talking to the staff, they've already engaged with the department on doing those, trying to work on improving the pull for the project by conducting trainings. And so it came as a total surprise. With that said, I haven't, due to other responsibilities, had the chance to try to talk to their leadership since then. But I was indeed planning on it. They

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: didn't re award that money.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: From what I understand, the testimony from Governors Finance was that they were going to bring it in house. But it's hard to imagine that that is happening given the award of the contract. As I said, there is a statute that requires more than has been done before the contract is canceled.

[Rep. Ian Goodnow (Member)]: Yeah, that's kind of my question. So the sites 33 BSA is 6,703, right? Just so I understand it, they're saying they want to bring the math work in house. They don't want to renew your contract in

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: that run area.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: It's interesting. I heard that in Adam's Gresham, Adam Gresham's testimony. But when Diva testified last week in House Appropriations, they did not say that.

[Rep. Ian Goodnow (Member)]: So you have a contract with the state that covers a bunch

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: of stuff? Oh, yeah. Well, we have a couple of contracts.

[Rep. Ian Goodnow (Member)]: Okay, so one of the contracts is specifically just MAP? Yes. Okay, and so that one they're saying they don't want to renew?

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: That's correct. Or are they

[Rep. Ian Goodnow (Member)]: just saying they don't want to fund it? I guess that's the one question

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: I was trying to clarify.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: In the governor's budget, it's eliminated and the funding is removed.

[Rep. Ian Goodnow (Member)]: Okay. And so have you seen is there any kind of documentation anywhere around compliance with either B-one or B-two here? Well, I know that

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: in the past several years, a few years at least, we have not recovered more than the contract price. So yes, they probably have that one now, But they don't have B. I mean, it was a B2. I don't have it right in front of me. But they don't have the second criteria. There has been no outreach that I'm aware of. And in fact, they're supposed to even do outreach to the contractor, us. And they have it. But there hasn't been any outreach to the area agencies on aging or any of the other affected stakeholders.

[Rep. Ian Goodnow (Member)]: Okay. Yeah. So that's based on the commissioner shall base this determination on the information obtained from the contractors, providers of health care, area agencies on aging, and other individuals. Okay. And so just final question for me is just so this last year for B1, the payments did not exceed the payments to the contractor to you guys.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: That's right. And at the same time, I just, again, want to emphasize that we can't ignore that there's now been probably a gain to the state in cost avoidance because a number of years ago, home health care used to bill incorrectly much more frequently. And there's every reason to believe that if this was if this work was indeed abandoned, billing would then increasingly go back to billing Medicaid. It's just easier You get paid faster. The criteria is clearer.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Okay. Thank you. And just to follow-up on what Barbara said, I think actually that part of the funding is probably much more in healthcare jurisdiction than here. But certainly the poverty law clinic and just generally the health of legal aid is very important to us. And I understand that this is kind of one part of it. But I just had this specific question on looking at the governor's recommended budget. It's section E-three 100, and it lays out funds appropriated for Vermont legal aid. And I just wanna, is that the base number? It's 2,000,000, well, forgetting about the healthcare advocate, that's not us. But there's 1,700,000.0 for the poverty law project. There's $650,000 for eviction prevention and such. So the asks that you have talked to us today are above and beyond those requests.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: So let me make sure I understand your question. So that B-three 100 contains the funding, most of the funding that we received in our Agency of Human Services contract. The funding for eviction defense was for a pilot that we're hoping will get continued, but that's not in our Agency of Human Services contract. And then in another spot in the budget, there's

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: there be one spot for legal aid in the budget? Yes. I've heard different opinions on that, but you believe there should be a case. We

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: struggle every year to find where we are. And I think, yes, it would be more transparent for everybody.

[Rep. Thomas Burditt (Vice Chair)]: It would be, but it would still get broken up in all these different areas. And that's probably why it gets broke down the way it is, right?

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: Probably, but even for example, as said, representative LaLonde, the healthcare advocate, office, which is within Vermont Legal Aid, has its own line item. And they have different funding streams as well. It still would be mean, even though if we had a line item, even though some of what we would receive would probably come through general funds that go to the Department of Mental Health and some would go to a different it still, I think, would make sense and could be done. It would be a better approach than we have now.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: So,

[Rep. Thomas Burditt (Vice Chair)]: Adam came in, Adam said there was no money at one time, and then all of a sudden there is some money because we don't know what's going on day to day. Things change all the time. Right? And then just to back up, the governor didn't put any money in there, but that doesn't mean if the feds come through with some money, that doesn't mean we're not gonna have money. Correct?

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: That's don't come through with some money for math.

[Rep. Thomas Burditt (Vice Chair)]: Well, pets one day are saying one thing and then the next day something else is coming, like we've had numerous things that's come here that we're not getting funding, right? And then all of a sudden we've got funding, right, we haven't got funding for FEMA, I won't go in that today with the press conference, but anyway. The other thing I just wanna back up on, you still are getting some federal funds, just not what you used to get. Correct?

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: Yes. Far less than we used to get. And let me see if I can if I can be more total budget.

[Rep. Thomas Burditt (Vice Chair)]: So let me let me just ask you this while you're thinking. So did we get a lot more federal funds when senator Leahy would send in the money into this state than what we are now?

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: As far as Vermont legal aid goes, I don't think I can answer that question. It's, but, but, senator Leahy certainly brought in a lot of funds to this state.

[Rep. Thomas Burditt (Vice Chair)]: I thought there'd be a paper showing on.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: So let's see. Thank you. Direct federal funding right now is $199,000 and a bit, almost $200,000 $99,917 So far, far, far less than we used to receive. We should be

[Rep. Thomas Burditt (Vice Chair)]: You have an idea what it was before

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: Oh, it was just lost over

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: about 4,500,000.0. We lost about 4,500,000.0.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Karen, Okay. Did you have a question? Yep. So just one last thing. So are there areas where we can be asking less of legal aid? And I'll just have, I'll mention one in particular. I'm not necessarily looking for an answer right now. But I know that individuals who are found not competent to stand trial and then have a commitment hearing have a legal aid attorney assigned, but they continue to have a defender general's attorney assigned to the case as well. I mean, is that an area where usually it should need to have an attorney there? You don't have to answer that right now. I just put that out there, unless you have an opinion on that right now.

[Bessie Weiss (Interim Executive Director, Vermont Legal Aid)]: I I don't really have an opinion on that specific question.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Yeah, it's it's come up in a couple different areas that there is that overlap. If that's an area for savings, we should at least consider it. Thank you very much for your testimony. I really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. All right, so let's have Sarah, are you gonna present? You're the money person right here? Just playing rock TV. Nice to have you back. Although we very much enjoyed having Charlie here testifying, but it's nice to see you again as well.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: I can't believe this is my first time sitting in this chair

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: this I don't really know. It's well handled.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Yes. I trust that very much.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Think that was a compliment. It was a compliment to trust.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: I have an amazing team.

[Rep. Thomas Burditt (Vice Chair)]: Sure. Just checking.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: You all are doing great too.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Alright. I'm talking.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Good to see you all. For the record, Sarah Robinson, co executive director at the Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence. As you know, we are the leading statewide voice on issues related to domestic and sexual violence. And our members are 15 independent nonprofit organizations that together serve every square mile of our state. In 2025, our member organizations answered about 23,000 hotline calls from Vermonters seeking support. And that was an increase of about 1,000 calls over the previous year. And also provided in person support to about 8,000 individuals. And despite this essential work, these organizations have largely been flat funded through the Domestic and Sexual Violence Special Fund for fifteen years. The fund was established in 2008, and its revenues are comprised of two sources: a surcharge on civil and criminal judgments. I just heard court fines and fees coming up, I just wanted to be like, no, don't want to go there. And a surcharge on marriage licenses. So just to give you a quick sense for that, there is a total $47 surcharge on criminal and civil judgments. Of that, 13.5 goes to the Domestic and Sexual Violence Fund. And a marriage license in Vermont costs $80 and $50 of that goes to the Domestic and Sexual Violence Special Fund. The fund's revenues have experienced significant declines over the past fifteen years. And a lot of that has to do with policy choices that the General Assembly has made, many of which we've supported but have led to decreased revenue into the fund. Last year, the General Assembly appropriated $450,000 in one time dollars to the fund. It was really primarily around a deficit that was occurring in the fund. And of this amount, dollars 250,000 was distributed among those 15 member organizations. And the Vermont Center for Crime Victim Services retained $200,000 of that $450 to have a cash balance in the fund for quarterly reimbursements. And I'm sure when the center comes, they can talk a little bit more about how that process works and why having a cash balance in the fund is really important. In addition, of course, the shifting federal landscape creates a lot of instability for our member organizations. Our member organizations rely on federal funds to support critical services for survivors. And for some of our member organizations, those federal funds comprise 90% of their budgets. So this kind of annual uncertainty on both the current uncertainty on the federal level and the annual uncertainty on the state level really threatens the promise that we make to Vermonters that services will be available in every single town in the state, regardless of where you live, regardless of your geography. You can call a domestic and sexual violence advocate twenty four hours a day. There are very few social services these days in the state of Vermont that are truly twenty four hours a day that you can have accompaniment to the hospital, that you can have emergency shelter if you're fleeing violence. And so that's kind of the situation that we're in. So we have really two requests for the FY '27 state budget. The first is $450,000 in base funding for the domestic and sexual violence fund. And this would level fund services. So given the current fiscal environment, we're only seeking to level fund grantees in the next fiscal year. We're not looking for an increase. We're looking to prevent cuts to the field. In addition, the Vermont Center for Crime Victim Services currently receives no funding to administer any of these special funds. And so I think they're coming into your committee. I don't think they've been in yet, but yeah, when they come in, I'm sure they'll speak to this, but they're requesting $95,000 in funding to administer the special funds. And we very much support that request. So if you address the current year deficit in the fund and support the center's $95,000 request, that's what adds up to the $4.50 in base funding. And without that $450,000 direct services in the programs would experience a cut as of July 1. And we also wanted to just let you know about another appropriations request that we are primarily working on with House Human Services Committee, but it does have a significant amount of overlap with the space that this committee looks at. And that's about community based supervised visitation. Supervised visitation provides a safe and structured setting where parents can have monitored time with their children. And courts and the Department for Children and Families will order supervised visitation in situations where there are safety concerns for a child or a non abusive parent. And the majority of those referrals come from the courts. Last year, House Human Services directed the judiciary and the Department for Children and Families to prepare a report on supervised visitation in Vermont. When I submit my testimony, it's linked in my testimony, the full report. And as a result of the report, the network is requesting an appropriation of $717,000 to the Department for Children and Families to really support a statewide system of care for supervised visitation. And so that would include community based supervised visitation and a small amount of money for statewide coordination of that system of care. So those are the two requests, the $4.50 in base for the Domestic and Sexual Violence Special Fund to address the deficit and to support the center in administering the funds and letting you know about the $717,000 that we're asking the House Human Services Committee to allocate to DCF for supervised visitation.

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: Thank you for being here.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: So you mentioned that the first amount of 400 and something would just bring you to be level funded. Complete level funded. Yep. So I'm curious if with the governor's budget, did they share why they cut it? So it's not in the general fund. So okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. So since the revenues come in through the two revenue sources, the deficit in the fund has to do with the revenue that's realized throughout the year. So what we have to do is we end up needing to supplement with general fund dollars because the revenues are not keeping pace with flat expenses in the fund. And I know that we've talked about this before, but do you have any suggestions on how we can address that fund better? Yes. Because I feel like this is something that comes up every year. And so how can we get it to so it's more sustainable? Or is it we just put you in the general fund? I was saying to some colleagues the other day that when I was preparing this testimony, I was saying it's actually quite hard to ask our member organizations who are doing this work day in and day out to help us engage in advocacy every single year to prevent cuts. It's a bit of a demoralizing position, frankly, for these service providers to be in. And so I think there has been a lot of work that the General Assembly has done to address these revenue problems with the fund. There was a 2022 report by the Joint Fiscal Office that really looked at the special funds and made some recommendations for alternate revenue sources. As of yet, we haven't moved any of those. We haven't moved a really significant portion of those recommendations forward. But there are other revenue sources that I think could and should be explored in the future.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Angela, in the book.

[Rep. Angela Arsenault (Member)]: As we always say, there's a bill for that. So you mentioned that some of your member organizations receive about 90% of their funding from the federal government. Can you say a little bit more about how the network supports its member organizations financially and what happens when these giant holes are created, or is the network trying to make up the difference in some amount and if the move to, if we're able to move from the one time from last year into the general fund as a base amount, what that even covers. Yes, happy to talk about that.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: So the funding that comes through the Domestic and Sexual Violence Special Fund gets distributed to these 15 member organizations via a funding formula. This is the funding formula that takes into account the square miles that the organizations serve, the population of the region that the organization serves, and the kinds of services that those organizations provide. For example, organizations that operate their own shelters receive more funds than organizations that do not. So there's a pretty time tested and sophisticated process for distributing state funds. And we work in close partnership with the Vermont Center for Crime Victim Services on that process. When there are gaps in the fund, I mean, it's the reason that we come to you every year when there are deficits in the fund, because we know that the reality is for a small organization that our organization in Orange County has three employees serving the county. If they lose $25,000 that's losing at least half a position. And so it really means significant impacts to availability of advocates to be in court to help survivors. It's their human capacity often to be able to accompany survivors at the hospital for SANE exams, etc. So those are really what the gaps come down to for many of our member organizations. So what we do, we certainly are here talking to the legislature about these issues. But the reality is we're not able to fill the gap. And our member organizations are also not able to independently fill those gaps.

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: Thanks for being here. So I was just trying to marvel that. You've been level funded since 2001.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Largely level funded. There have been some variations, but yes.

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: So if we look up what $450,000 bought in 2001, you would need $823,000 to buy the same stuff. And I know your costs have gone up, and I know you're trying to be really cautious in this environment. But there's a significant burden that's being placed on you and the entire network by trying to continue doing what you've been doing. And I just worry about how the budget process works and people going, well, we'll give you 200,000 because you're asking for $4.50. And really, the demoralizing part about asking for level funding, and maybe it's our committee that grapples with that, do we say you are concerned that we're leaving all these survivors in a really vulnerable position? So it just is, you might win the record for longest level funded, which is not okay.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: I appreciate your comments very much. And I would also say that we have done some analysis internally and the domestic and sexual violence special fund as a whole. So this year, there was about $1,000,000 total that went out in the fund divided among these organizations. There's also a small part of the money that goes actually for direct assistance to victims for like first and last month's rent for transportation, things like that. So we've done some analysis looking historically, and we think eventually that fund actually needs to be supporting more like $5,000,000 in expenses. That's really where we need to be now. But the reality is what we can't do is have a cut as of July 1. And so we understand the fiscal circumstances that everybody is facing. Obviously, just hearing the testimony from Vermont Legal Aid is really it's hard, and it's hard for a lot of nonprofit organizations. And so we feel like the responsible thing to do at this moment is to ask for level funding. But I appreciate what you're saying about I mean, the historical rise in expenses is very real. And the stark difference between the nonprofits coming in and what's happening to their budgets with like, obviously, the Human Rights Commission is sort of in your position. Yeah, I I just hope everybody is as

[Rep. Barbara Rachelson (Member)]: sort of thinking of the whole as you all, because it's going to play, and I just don't want to see this build.

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: Well, we would certainly, I mean, we absolutely certainly appreciate the support of the committee as you are drafting your memo to appropriations. Of course, we would love for level funding to be prioritized in that memo.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: And do you have written testimony that you

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: have I do, yeah.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Any other questions? Not seeing any. Thank you very much. Thank you

[Sarah Robinson (Co-Executive Director, Vermont Network Against Domestic and Sexual Violence)]: all for your time. Good to see you.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: So attorney general clerk is gonna be here to present at their budget. So