Vermont Legislature SmartTranscripts:

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Welcome back to the House Judiciary Committee this Thursday afternoon, January 14. And we're gonna hear from the family members of of Mr. Garvey who lost his life this past year in a very unfortunate situation. We have a bill, age six thirteen, that is based really on their experience largely and others as well, which we're not taking that bill up right now. But since the Garvey's were in town and at the State House, I wanted to hear their story and hear what they've gone through. I really appreciate your being here. And so we'll start with you. If you could identify yourself for record and proceed. Thank you so much for being here.

[Judy Garvey]: And again, this one's for you, Scottie. Good afternoon. Thank you to the Vermont House Judiciary Committee for asking me here today. My name is Judy Garvey. I am the proud mother of three children and four grandchildren. I'm 84 years old, and I served my entire life as a nurse, and I am in deep grief. I'm here to tell you today about my son, Scott Joseph Garvey, who cannot who will longer speak for himself for advocate for himself. Scott was born on 08/21/1969 in Westfield, Massachusetts, and he died on 07/07/2025 in our apartment in Putney, Vermont, after being shot multiple times by the Vermont state police during a mental health crisis in which he reached out dozens of times for help. He was unarmed and alone, scared, and had recently undergone major surgery. He was both physically and mentally disabled and required a cane to walk. Scott was an inspired musician. He was an exceptional poet, and he was a voracious reader, a traveler, and a dreamer. He was impossibly kind, quick to laugh, and slow to judge. He loved people with deep loyalty and quiet fierceness, and he lived as though beauty and art and music and human connection were all that mattered. Scott left behind songs and prayers, scribbled notebooks and poems and napkins. He left his beloved drunks from around the world in a notable generosity that was second to none. So I love you to have hundreds of friends and family who loved him, and we'll never stop loving him. My only wish is that he could have known life what has become obvious in his death that people all over the world moved and inspired by his tremendous compassion. Scott was a devoted son, a loyal brother, and a treasured uncle to his nieces and nephews. He lived with and cared for me for much of his life. He brought me to hundreds of music concerts and art shows, and I was a mother to many of his bandmates who gathered in our house for band practice. And to this day, most people call me Mama J. I miss those days so much and would do anything to have them back. Just because we were poor didn't mean we didn't enjoy life. Scott and I walked our dogs for miles together, and we spent days upon days in thrift stores where he loved finding small treasures that he thought would put a smile on his sister Karen's face or light up his nieces and nephews. Often, would just want to drive to some faraway place he read about just to see something interesting. I loved listening to newly discovered jazz musicians with him. I loved listening to him come to Jesus and pray out loud each day for his family and friends, the homeless and the hungry, and even the police and firefighters. I love watching them read the Bible from cover to cover. He, more than anyone I've known, seemed to understand the true spirit of Jesus. We used to dance together to music of the 1950s, and we'd get off my aging feet and jig with him. He'd wake me up in the morning and record me drinking my first cup of coffee of the day. Oh, that's coffee so good, I'd say. And then he'd text it to our large family, and they'd all laugh at me. Scott lived, loved, and played music in Boston, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Austin, New Orleans and Memphis. He played drums in many bands spanning all musical styles, also always seeking musical authenticity. He was a drummer of Rated Ducks, Scotland Bar and the Slow Drag, Slee Circus, On Beanies, First Fries of Beats, and many others. He also co starred in the underground cult film I Was a Teenage Serial Killer, and he wrote dozens upon dozens of songs and poems exploring existential angst, unrequited love and ultimately his relationship with his own mental health. A friend noting that Scott was a musician's musician was a real thing. Scott was always surrounded by music and misfits, by family and friends, vital records of bad coffee and his American spirit cigarettes. He burned bright. He always gave more than he had, preferring to spend most of his meter, Social Security disability checks on socks, and sleeping bags and gloves for the homeless. His last request when he left Memphis in June 2025, barely able to walk, suffering from debilitating anxiety, was for his sister to buy packages of clean socks to distribute at the local homeless shelter, which he promptly did. I also was scared scared for Scott. Scott suffered from bipolar disorder and PTSD. He needed my assistance. Excuse me. He needed my assistance often in negotiating the complexities of our modern, highly impersonal world that generally has little time for those living with mental health challenges. He was someone who was never fully fit in this world but never stopped trying to soften it anyway. Scott knew suffering but but his own and and others, and he carried it with the strange grace of someone who saw the cracks and everything and still believed that there might be light. In 2024, Scott wrote, Incomposed still wanting, expressing his resolve to never return to Lakeside Psychiatric Hospital, where he reported being physically and sexually abused after reaching out for mental health. I'd rather stay home than go to the lakeside. I prefer oceans and rivers instead. The still waters remind me of unfulfilled potential, a lot unlike the running and vastness of my dreams.

[Sean Garvey]: Don't to play it song for you just because of its significance.

[Judy Garvey]: I need to tell you the circumstances of Scott's death were not inevitable. They were a failure of both when we reached out for help to follow the policies meant to safeguard those suffering from mental health crisis. It was a failure of the Vermont state police to follow their own directives that were developed over ten years. It was a failure of the medical establishment to take the time to listen to patients who are suffering mental health pain. And it was a failure of our collective lack of will to protect our most vulnerable community members from neglect and outright abuse in an absolutely and completely failed national mental health system. That day, July 7, Scott needed a medication adjustment instead of gun bullets sitting in his own living room surrounded by the police he always feared would one day kill him. We always thought he was paranoid, but it turns out that he was right all along. Scott and I were so excited and moved back home. My daughter, Carol, is Scott's best friend. I like to call them the bookends. Carol worked so hard to get us a good home in Putney, where she was only two miles away and could help Scott take care of me, where she could take walks with her brother and visit thrift stores together, and where we could spend holidays and Christmases together again. My doctors and counselors say I'm angry. I wake up each morning, and not wanting to go on, wondering why I still have to be alive. I don't sleep. The only way I could be here today is because I'm the M. Submit. I feel like an empty shell of a human being. I am depressed, and I am angry at the inexperienced state trooper, Bush Adam, and even more angry at the commander who told me to go in with nothing but a loaded gun after four hours of sitting outside our home. I am without joy, and really, if I'm honest, I just want to die. Though Scott's family is wrecked by grief, we will not let Scott be reduced to the worst day of his life. Like all those suffering from mental health challenges, he was infinitely more than his diagnosis. Scott was a whole person whose life and spirit will be honored. As Scott himself did end, every one of the thousands of postcards and letters and thoughtful gifts he sent to friends and family all over the country: Be well. Dream harder. I love you. I love you, sun, to the moon and back, and then sun. And I look forward to joining you in heaven, sun. Thank you all for this.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Thank you very much for your testimony. I'm very sorry for your loss.

[Sean Garvey]: I just speak quickly. My name is Sean. Is that okay?

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Sorry. Yeah. No. You don't have to be quick. Please just go ahead.

[Sean Garvey]: I know that you wanted to testify as well. And thank you for allowing us to play this song. It become sort of a totem to him, our own family. Good afternoon. Thank you for your time today. I'm Sean Garvey. I'm Scott's older brother, my brother. I'm 60 years old and the father of three children. Currently, I live in California. I was in Montpelier for a long time and helped co found the Green Mountain Film Festival. This is a rough and difficult message for me to deliver today. It may be too much for some of you to hear, but it is our lived experience. And I'm gonna specifically discuss after the fact, after the moment that my brother was shot. I hope you're not offended, and if it's too much, tell me. I won't be excited if she has to leave. I do need to tell the truth of this experience, and sometimes it's grisly. Today marks a hundred and ninety two days since Scott's murder as a direct result of the actions of the Vermont State Police. Brutal word to use, murder, but Scott's death has been ruled a homicide by the Vermont State coroner because of multiple gunshot wounds. I think we should call it what it was even if it's uncomfortable. He didn't just die. Was He the victim of homicide by the very people he was calling for help. On July 7, during his mental health crisis, he was scared and frightened. He required the assistance of mental health professionals. I think of his courage picking up the phone to reach out to someone repeatedly. He was scared scared that he's gonna see police knocking at his door, scared that it would not go the right way, scared that what he wouldn't find is a nurse or a counselor. I think of the irony that he foresaw his own death in such a vivid manner and that this story is so common, sadly, that my brother could guess the outcome with such ease. I can't get the images out of my head of my little brother. I played baseball with for hundreds and thousands of hours. I've been used to stutter, who sat with me for hours upon hours writing down the songs we heard on the radio as we spun the radio dial back in the seventies, and we'd keep track of which ELO song was on the top 10 list that week. As he laid on the floor of his home, bleeding out for forty seven minutes, Was conscious. What was he thinking of as he lay there receiving care from the people that he feared most? Did he feel his life slipping slowly out of his body? Was he thinking of my mom or his drums or his dog, Vinny? Of me, was he angry of me that I had insisted he reach out for help only to find himself dying at the hands of the supposed helpers? The trooper that shot him was one of a half dozen or so that had been gathered outside their home for more than five hours that day while inside Scott had effectively a nervous breakdown. For whatever reason, it was decided at that moment that they needed to enter his home, and someone decided to send in one of the youngest and least experienced inexperienced amongst them. The initial investigation report shows that the trooper thought Scott had a rifle. While they scoured the apartment, there was no rifle or any firearm of any type to be found. To be honest, I imagine, I'll just be blunt, that they were disappointed. What's now being reported is that trooper thought that there was a pole found. I think it's important to know that the pole was his cane. He had fashioned a cane out of his drum set, the thing that holds up the cymbals, and everything with him was about drums. And that was that was the cane, which I believe is the pole, which in another irony ends up being the triggering event for his death. The idea that with that much time to think through what to do next, that troopers ultimately invaded the home of an unarmed mentally and physically disabled 55 year old man, guns drawn, is in our minds one tragic failure of many that day. There were no gas, no beanbag guns, no pepper spray. Just a gun in the hands of an inexperienced state trooper shouldn't have been allowed or instructed to break in Scott's home in the first place. Frankly, we believe this was a command failure and a systems failure. And while we hold the trooper responsible for pulling the trigger, we also hold the command at Vermont State Police Accountant who appear to have violated numerous state policies and directives in the handling of the situation, including turning away my mother and sister and not allowing them to assist Scott, taking control of the scene away from the mental health professionals, and breaking into his home despite no immediate threat to other people or neighbors. Want you to know he was in an apartment. It was he was locked in. And with no weapon, he was sitting on his couch and essentially yelling. That was his crime. While there's an investigation ongoing it's important for me here to say clearly. While there's an investigation ongoing for which we await the results, we do not hold out any hope for justice from that process. Because unbelievably, in this day and age, the Vermont state police have found every shooting by a state trooper over the past fifty years resulting in death to be justified. Every single one. They published this on their website right on the second page. 47 shootings since 1977, and 100% of them are justified. So we don't take much we don't take much comfort in the process of an investigation. I know it's jaw dropping. What it says to us is that there's no ability for self improvement because apparently everything they do is right all of the time, every time. Every and any shooting has been justified. As many of you know, since that time, it's been one shocking and hurtful experience, traumatic experience after another, almost as if someone had designed a process to test us even more. And I'm happy to say we're still standing here a little rattled, but this the process of what has occurred since the shooting has been amazing. It would take down any of you. I'm telling you. As my wife and I raced across the country to be by my mother's side, we had to raise our daily credit limit after my mother was told by the state that his body would not be released for his unplanned funeral without a $2,000 payment. You've heard that right. We had to pay to get my dead brother's cremated remains so he could attend his own funeral. A week later, the mother was told she would need to pay to clean up Scott's remains from the walls and floors of their apartment. Are you

[Judy Garvey]: okay? You

[Sean Garvey]: will be amazed that the law does not require cleanup of a state murder by the Vermont State Police, but does require professional cleanup by the victim's family. Mom was told she would need to pay repair to repair numerous bullet holes left behind in the walls and ceilings by the Vermont State Police. She even had to pay for her own moving expenses because she clearly could never be able to return to her home. We've had to pay for our own grief counseling, therapy for our entire family, for all of our travel expenses associated with this, and even come even to come here to speak to you today. Finally, the realization that the victim's services offered by the state does anything but serve victims when the perpetrator is the state itself. Victim services from Vermont State Police are on the payroll of the Vermont State Police. And while they probably do a great job when the victim is somebody outside or external to the Vermont State Police, When it's internal, it's an inherent conflict of interest. What happened to us with the collection of information from my mother as she was running around the my sister's yard screaming that her son had just died was that the victim services representative attempted to get her to schedule a interview with a detective right then and there. This violates every advocacy procedure known to to man. When they cleared the apartment, there was no telling us what we were gonna find. Frankly, as a an obvious in this space, I've associated the word cleared and cleaned, and it's not. We returned, my son and I, to an apartment, backdoor busted in, open for twelve days to the neighbors, blood spilled throughout the living room, medical waste everywhere, bodily fluids on the walls. His Red Sox hat was stuffed behind a couch bloody. It's the one that I had bought him at opening day a few years ago, and his broken dentures were on the floor. Behind him, they were or behind the living room, there were bullet holes in the walls, three or four of them, one in the ceiling, and that was left behind for us. We weren't told that. We we we thought we were coming home to a home. All of my mom's earthly possessions have been dumped out of boxes onto the floor, out of the furnishings. It was clearly a mad search for weapons, probably to justify or better justify the actions that had taken place. You know we all know, it would have been a much better story if a weapon had been found. It would have alleviated a lot of the sense of responsibility. We made every effort to communicate this to Vermont's political

[Judy Garvey]: leadership until

[Sean Garvey]: we met representative Bosland, who helped us and helped direct some of our efforts and our energies. I was leaving a very kind message for the governor every day by email and by phone, just asking to be able to describe what our situation was so that the state could fix it. I wasn't looking to yell at anybody. Clearly, we're reasonable people, but I have not never had a return phone call or email message from the governor's office after 26 efforts. If this experience sounds harsh, it's because, in my opinion, it has been brutal and inhumane. It is a dark mark on the integrity of the Vermont state police, and it should be an embarrassment to every citizen of the beautiful state of Vermont. If it weren't for the strength of our family and the help and support of our friends, we would not be standing here today because the process would eat alive any other family with less love and resources than us. We developed a detailed list of recommendations that were part of, the testimony that we submitted today. It's on the website. I'm not gonna go over them. Many of them are included in the legislation. I want you all to know. I'll finish. I live each day with the horrific guilt that I literally and figuratively drove my brother to his own murder. We spent three days together on our trek. We talked about his enthusiasm for spending the holidays with my sister, of the hope of finding a new band to play with, of his love for God, the importance of the bible to him, and his desire to find a girlfriend. Our very last conversation, played with him, insisted he reach out for help. I wrote a letter. I said, you must, when we get there, reach out for help. He was no longer in danger. He wasn't in Memphis, and he was someplace safe. And he did just that after four days later. Four days later, he was dead. Thank you. Thank you.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Thank you. Did Kara want to weigh in, or are you fine?

[Sean Garvey]: You know, it's it's submitted.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: You don't have to. That that that's fine. Submitted her comments. Yeah. Okay. No. I appreciate that. Again, you know, sorry for your loss. We are later in the session, going to look at that bill. I'm hoping that we have some understanding from the attorney general's office on where they are with investigation as well. But really wanted to give you an opportunity to tell your story, explain what your situation was, and I really appreciate that.

[Sean Garvey]: We appreciate the time and attention I here, know this isn't easy for anybody to hear. I would like you all to know that back in November, we were asked by the Vermont Truth and Reconciliation Commission to present similar testimony. We went on for about two hours and ten minutes there, but that was an exceptionally healing part of the process as is this. So I apologize. Do I apologize? I don't apologize. Yep. You're all Thank you for your time and helping us heal a situation that is insurmountable in how to process in your life. Right. Absolutely.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: And I do understand that you may wanna testify later when we take up the actual

[Sean Garvey]: We will be available for anything, any time.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Okay. Offer

[Sean Garvey]: Yes. Yeah. Please.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Just wanna say that I can only imagine how you don't want your love for his story to become just the story of his death. So I just want to say that the story of his life that you shared really impacted me. And I'll think of him the way that you described him. I'll think of Scott as the drummer and musician and poet and full of life, your son, your friend, your brother. And I really honor your ability to be here. I don't know what to call it. I don't know if it's courage or sheer will. I think it's love. Love. So I honor your love for your loved one. And thank you for sharing his story. Thank you, I appreciate you all. Thank you. I also just want to say thank you. I know this is hard, and I know that you live with this every single minute. So the fact that you're willing to endure extra pain to let us learn from this horrendous, horrendous experience, and you're in such great hands with

[Judy Garvey]: Michelle. Oh, she's been wonderful. Just wonderful. I appreciate her so much.

[Unidentified Committee Member]: Thank you. I just can picture Scott being so proud of all the work

[Sean Garvey]: that you've done. Thank

[Judy Garvey]: you. And I appreciate your Lieutenant thousand two hundred five thousand two hundred and thirty nine with a big heart. There you give him a kiss. So Katie was very supportive and Judy could ask if she could give you a kiss on the cheek. Made my day. Maybe his too, Chittenden. I hope so.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: Thank you. Can I just

[Sean Garvey]: say, you know, I I want I hope this is communicated? This isn't easy. This issue is one of the most complicated that we're dealing with as human beings right now, and it's not getting any better. Getting much worse fairly quickly. And I appreciate that you have to grapple grapple with conflicting demands on resources and time, but also that you have the gumption to take it on as individuals. This is not easy. We've had long conversations with Wilde about where we really need to move as a society. And it's definitely not necessarily law enforcement interacting with people who are having mental health crisis. But it is what we have right now. It's the system we have, and we're trying to work within that system so that we can ensure this doesn't happen to other people in Vermont and even be a national role model outside the state. Again, I'm really grateful, and I I do know that there are a lot of demands on your time, and I appreciate that you're willing to consider this.

[Judy Garvey]: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[Rep. Martin LaLonde (Chair)]: So we'll meet right after the floor tomorrow. We'll probably probably have his call available on H545, and we will have some discussion on H5 and probably have a vote on H5. So